The Death of the Dragonknight- updated 3/15/16

KenaPKK

I feel so bad for DK players... mDK is habitually ignored, and then this flappies bug... Good lord.

Ghost-Shot

@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno

Do you get the idea yet? Can you please remove the battle spirit debuff from dragons blood? And can we reconsider 0 stamina regen while blocking? Even just changing it to 50% stam regen while blocking would mean if you want to perma block you have to spec accordingly to do so but allows DK's to actually stand their ground.

Parafrost

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno

Do you get the idea yet? Can you please remove the battle spirit debuff from dragons blood? And can we reconsider 0 stamina regen while blocking? Even just changing it to 50% stam regen while blocking would mean if you want to perma block you have to spec accordingly to do so but allows DK's to actually stand their ground.

Dont forget how u can go into sneak mode and have stam recovery. I go into sneak mode on my dk and my stamina never runs out even if it says 0.

Astanphaeus

The one thing I would like to add is sorcs streaking in talons. What is even the logic in this?

kadar

Jules wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Hey, @Jules so I just read through your post- Thieves Guild update.

You laid out all the Magicka Dragonknights weaknesses (quite nicely, I might add) and show how similar skills or a few skills used together can outshine a MDKs options. You want to be viable in Cyrodiil. Just a few thoughts I pulled out of your post:

DKs are not as good as other builds and need Major Expedition because of the Hasty passive.
" are not as good as other builds and need buffed Coagulating Blood because of BoL.
" are not as good as other builds and need a % Dodge Chance Ability because of Shuffle.
" are not as good as other builds and need and need better gap closer because some gap closers stun.

I agree that MDKs could use a little polishing. But a lot of these suggestions imply that you want to have the exact same tools and strengths as everyone else (And this isn't a MDK vs. everything else scenario; each class/build has tools that others don't, or don't do as well)?

I have always viewed (ZoS too maybe?) DKs as the class that excels at the tanky-warrior type that outshines others in mitigation and toughness. Why should DKs have heals to match the Templar, or mobility to match the Sorc, or damage to match the NB? Especially in a Meta where everyone is doing the same things to be viable, do we really want to make DKs look even more like the other classes? What if we were cool with different classes having different strengths and weakness. So I wonder...

What are your thoughts on the roll of the DK in Cyrodiil moving forward?

(forgive my scattered thoughts)

I can see your point and forgive me for improperly communicating that I want everything that every other class has. My intent was to show how we are weaker in those departments (damage, mobility) and why we need to excel in other departments which we currently do not. This would balance things.

I do not think DK's need to be redefined as a mobile class, however I think some level of mobility is necessary for open world pvp on every class. Otherwise with the way snares and stuns work now, you end up getting permarooted and dying a miserable death.

I agree that ZOS views the class as a tough/mitigating class however I think they have overlooked some things. While other classes are given tools to also mitigate damage (Templars- restoring focus/strong heals/purify, Sorcerers- Hardened Ward, Nightblades- Heals in their damage/doubletake) - DK's have nothing that really outshines any of them in terms of tanking aside from the ult that reduces incoming damage to 3% and a blocking passive that is all but circumstantial with block nerfs. Conversely, while other classes are able to tank, DK's are not able to be mobile in any sense. Do you see the conundrum?

Mmm, yeah, thanks for the reply. Agreed, some level of mobility would be nice seeing as every other class has speed built into their class kit. I mean...I haven't really played around with the Major Expedition from Chains thing yet...Idk how viable it is to use that for speed, and it's only like 2 seconds...

It's a really tricky thing though...Should every class/weapon tree have every related buff? Or should some buffs be only accessible through certain trees? I almost lean toward the later... Stam DKs have, imo, the same access to speed as stam NBs. Yes, NBs has Double Take, but it's kind of a waste of Magicka in most cases vs. Shuffle + Bow Expedition. I need that Magicka for Cloak.

Going forward, I would like to see small incremental buffs to see where the true largest weakness really resides and to avoid making the class OP again.

I agree, this is the answer to bringing class balance to Cyrodiil^. But this is not how ZoS wants to make balance changes. They want to make large reworks that fix a lot of things, but then create a host of new imbalances in their wake. The players then identify said imbalances is a matter of days, and wait a matter of months for balance.

AlexHo1982

I agree that the update did not have the desired effect on mDKs and I personally would love to see some changes that actually strengthen the class theme, instead of giving the class itself the utility of other classes.

If you want mobility: go Vamp or use Rapid Maneuvers. If you want a strong burst heal: take a resto staff. If you want a purge: there is also one available to all (magicka) classes. No class should have all utility within itself, which the devs should take into consideration when looking especially at Sorcs and NBs. That is simply not what balance in this game should be about...

That said, I believe that DKs should be made viable as a tanky class. Right now every magicka Sorc has a stronger defense than a magicka DK with the additional benefit of high burst damage that we lack.

I would suggest the following changes to buff the class in general, without changing what it was supposed to be:
- Reflective Scales (and its morphs): Add Minor Ward for up to 20 seconds.
- Dragon Fire Scale: Increase the reflected damage by up to 50%, since meteor is not being reflected anymore.
- Reflective Plate: Add Major Ward for up to 20 seconds.
- Fiery Grip (and morphs): Remove the pointless speedbuff and instead add Major Maim for up to 3.5 seconds. Do not add a stun.
- Spiked Armor (and its morphs): Remove the returned damage part and reduce incoming damage by 1%-4%.
- Hardened Armor: Remove the pointless damage shield and grand CC immunity for up to 2.5 seconds.
- Volatile Armor: Change it to something like "Purifying Armor". It is now based on stamina and removes 1-2 negative status effects from the caster.
- Dragon Blood: Decrease the healing to 30% and add the "Coagulating Blood" effect of +8% healing received while active.
- Coagulating Blood: Change to "Blue Dragon Blood". It now adds Major Intellect for the duration.
- Green Dragon Blood: It is now a stamina morph.
- Molten Whip: It is now a stamina morph.

Those changes together with reviewing the high costs of some of the class skills should strengthen DKs overall in their inherent role. This obviously is only an example for the direction that I would love to see in the future with the current mechanics for blocking, Ult regen, etc.

Edit: Improved formatting.

Bashev

AlexHo1982 wrote: »

I agree that the update did not have the desired effect on mDKs and I personally would love to see some changes that actually strengthen the class theme, instead of giving the class itself the utility of other classes.

If you want mobility: go Vamp or use Rapid Maneuvers. If you want a strong burst heal: take a resto staff. If you want a purge: there is also one available to all (magicka) classes. No class should have all utility within itself, which the devs should take into consideration when looking especially at Sorcs and NBs. That is simply not what balance in this game should be about...

That said, I believe that DKs should be made viable as a tanky class. Right now every magicka Sorc has a stronger defense than a magicka DK with the additional benefit of high burst damage that we lack.

I would suggest the following changes to buff the class in general, without changing what it was supposed to be:
Reflective Scales (and its morphs): Add Minor Ward for up to 20 seconds.
Dragon Fire Scale: Increase the reflected damage by up to 50%, since meteor is not being reflected anymore.
Reflective Plate: Add Major Ward for up to 20 seconds.
Fiery Grip (and morphs): Remove the pointless speedbuff and instead add Major Maim for up to 3.5 seconds. Do not add a stun.
Spiked Armor (and its morphs): Remove the returned damage part and reduce incoming damage by 1%-4%.
Hardened Armor: Remove the pointless damage shield and grand CC immunity for up to 2.5 seconds.
Volatile Armor: Change it to something like "Purifying Armor". It is now based on stamina and removes 1-2 negative status effects from the caster.
Dragon Blood: Decrease the healing to 30% and add the "Coagulating Blood" effect of +8% healing received while active. Coagulating Blood: Change to "Blue Dragon Blood". It now adds Major Intellect for the duration.
Green Dragon Blood: It is now a stamina morph.
Molten Whip: It is now a stamina morph.

Those changes together with reviewing the high costs of some of the class skills should strengthen DKs overall in their inherent role. This obviously is only an example for the direction that I would love to see in the future with the current mechanics for blocking, Ult regen, etc.

All your changes will not improve magicka DKs at all. Tough stamina DKs can get some nice buffs.

AlexHo1982

How would adding a damage debuff to our gap closer, a damage reduction as well as a short CC immunity to Spiked / Hardened Armor, Minor Ward and more damage or Major Ward depending on the morph (Dragon Fire Scale / Reflective Plate) and adding Major Intellect to Coagulating Blood (both in one skill) not be considered a buff to the magicka DKs survivability?

True, I also believe some skills should be available in stam versions. I think this should be the case for all classes by the way, but that would not hurt the mDK (except maybe for Molten Whip in PvE, but whatever).

We need stronger defense and not offense to be effective within our "intended" play style. And as I mentioned before, those were only ideas for the direction that I believe to be correct, instead of adding speed buffs, executioners, etc.

There is a difference between buffing a class to where it should be and just granting someones wishlist, while introducing new issues that lead to nerfs later on.

Bashev

AlexHo1982 wrote: »

How would adding a damage debuff to our gap closer, a damage reduction as well as a short CC immunity to Spiked / Hardened Armor, Minor Ward and more damage or Major Ward depending on the morph (Dragon Fire Scale / Reflective Plate) and adding Major Intellect to Coagulating Blood (both in one skill) not be considered a buff to the magicka DKs survivability?

True, I also believe some skills should be available in stam versions. I think this should be the case for all classes by the way, but that would not hurt the mDK (except maybe for Molten Whip in PvE, but whatever).

We need stronger defense and not offense to be effective within our "intended" play style. And as I mentioned before, those were only ideas for the direction that I believe to be correct, instead of adding speed buffs, executioners, etc.

There is a difference between buffing a class to where it should be and just granting someones wishlist, while introducing new issues that lead to nerfs later on.

I already stated that mDK are lacking survivability and I agree that they need to be tanky and they do not need burst or mobility.
DKs already have damage debuf - choking talons
4% damage reduction is nothing, it will not help a lot.
2.5 CC immunity won't help too if you are lacking burst to finish your opponent.
More spell resist for the wings, you already have this major buff.

Unfortunately stamina regen while blocking affected mostly magicka DKs. It is the same with the battle spirit healing reduction. Dragon blood is useless now. It should be changed to:
Green Dragon Blood:
1) the skill should not be effected by the battle spirit reduced healing
2) Major Fortitude should be changed with flat amount of health recovery (scales with magicka or health(the highest)) min 100 health recovery and max 800 health recovery per tick.
3) Major Endurance should be changed with - restore X stamina every 2 seconds (scales with max magicka or health (the highest)) min 100 stamina and max 800 per tick.

Ghost-Shot

AlexHo1982 wrote: »

How would adding a damage debuff to our gap closer, a damage reduction as well as a short CC immunity to Spiked / Hardened Armor, Minor Ward and more damage or Major Ward depending on the morph (Dragon Fire Scale / Reflective Plate) and adding Major Intellect to Coagulating Blood (both in one skill) not be considered a buff to the magicka DKs survivability?

True, I also believe some skills should be available in stam versions. I think this should be the case for all classes by the way, but that would not hurt the mDK (except maybe for Molten Whip in PvE, but whatever).

We need stronger defense and not offense to be effective within our "intended" play style. And as I mentioned before, those were only ideas for the direction that I believe to be correct, instead of adding speed buffs, executioners, etc.

There is a difference between buffing a class to where it should be and just granting someones wishlist, while introducing new issues that lead to nerfs later on.

The gap closer needs a CC like invasion not a damage buff, gap closers don't need to be high dps abilities.

AlexHo1982

Bashev wrote: »

I already stated that mDK are lacking survivability and I agree that they need to be tanky and they do not need burst or mobility.
DKs already have damage debuf - choking talons
That is why I suggested adding the Major damage debuff to the gab closer for a strong debuff synergy.
4% damage reduction is nothing, it will not help a lot.
It is not much, but still would add up, with all other debuffs - both suggested ones and the Cyrodil debuff. And it would be better than the insignificant damage to melee attackers we get right now.
2.5 CC immunity won't help too if you are lacking burst to finish your opponent.
The time was maybe a bit short. It could be around, 5 seconds to last as long as Immovable. That would be more useful than the 2.5 second shield we have right now. I am basically suggesting a magicka version of immovable.
More spell resist for the wings, you already have this major buff.
It would allow you to either have more damage than right now together with the minor buff in one skill or use the "Plate" morph an have both resists (major / minor) additionally to the basic reflect, allowing you to save a skill slot for something else.

Unfortunately stamina regen while blocking affected mostly magicka DKs. It is the same with the battle spirit healing reduction. Dragon blood is useless now. It should be changed to:
Green Dragon Blood:
1) the skill should not be effected by the battle spirit reduced healing
2) Major Fortitude should be changed with flat amount of health recovery (scales with magicka or health(the highest)) min 100 health recovery and max 800 health recovery per tick.
3) Major Endurance should be changed with - restore X stamina every 2 seconds (scales with max magicka or health (the highest)) min 100 stamina and max 800 per tick.
I agree, that would be a good solution.

I replied in bold letters below the quoted lines.

Asmael

Just make Fragmented shield's explosion scale based on max health, and I'll call it a day. And, why not, major evasion on Cinder Storm.

#GiveDksAHouse

AlexHo1982

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

The gap closer needs a CC like invasion not a damage buff, gap closers don't need to be high dps abilities.

That would be the obvious change... But ZOS does not seem to want to add CC to our gap closer for some reason. I was looking for another useful synergy within a tanky play style: A major damage debuff that can be added e.g. to the minor one from Choking Talons, instead of the actual useless 2-second speed buff.

A very short speed buff in a gap closer, seriously ZOS?

Dreyloch

Jules wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

Tbh i have actually come to realise its not even dragon blood and damage thats a problem. (while i do understand DB is still broken af). Its the no stam regen while blocking which broke everything. I never die because i cant outheal the incoming damage. I never die because i kill to slowly (which i dont anymore). I die because i have to block damage because everyone hits so god damn hard and is specced into full dps mode and not even heavy armour can protect you, and then once i lose all my stamina, i get CCed and then its game over.

I mean, I think the class has plenty of other weaknesses other than just the inability to block for very long. This was admittedly a very hard hitting nerf to DK's. However, I still think that the heals are abysmal when compared with other heals and to have to artificially increase coag blood with high health on off bar is clever albeit sad. The fact that DK's have to sacrifice magicka to heal themselves is just plain sad. The fact that we need to basically stack all three resource pools when almost every other class and spec can stack their damage pool and get to an acceptable health is unfair. We needartificially increased health to heal, magicka to do damage and stamina to block all this high high dps. One is always too low no matter how you slice it and the result is the mDK we have now.

However, I will say that I wouldn't want all buffs to suddenly come about in one patch. Perhaps I was naive to expect DK to be viable in PVP after these recent buffs. Going forward, I would like to see small incremental buffs to see where the true largest weakness really resides and to avoid making the class OP again.

This (bolded) right here is why so many are already giving up on the class and changing to Sorc or VD Nightblades, and stamplars. PvE wise I think mDK has more tools then they even need. But when it comes to PvP? Nah, what needs to happen is something spectacular when Wrobel decides to revamp Heavy armor. WHICH SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE FOR TG!!! Otherwise the class is done. Not enough mitigation but good DPS in medium, same with light armor. But who at anytime in any battle on any planet would just run in with a cloth robe to tank an advancing enemy? Sure maybe it happened, but you don't hear about it because that guy is *&^% dead. We should be able to do any of our roles in heavy armor. I'm not saying we need to DPS of a sorc or NB while wearing it, but something close...and yet still be able to switch bars and take more than 5 hits before our stam runs out and we can't get away.

I've gone from medium, to light to heavy...trying different combos of all kinds of crafted and PvP gear. Nothing seems to work the way I want to play. One bar defensive and tanky, one bar offensive. Not overpowering on either bar. I used to be able to achieve that. Heck it worked for PvE too in most cases. Now? Nope. Can't be done. can't work without carrying around 3-4 sets of gear, changing all your passives (I.E. vMA) , changing all your CP's, changing your entire playstyle to fit both playstyles. I'm sorry but Wrobel only sees PvE. He can't possible understand PvP in any sense of the word. Or someone isn't letting him do it the right way.

Joy_Division

AlexHo1982 wrote: »

How would adding a damage debuff to our gap closer, a damage reduction as well as a short CC immunity to Spiked / Hardened Armor, Minor Ward and more damage or Major Ward depending on the morph (Dragon Fire Scale / Reflective Plate) and adding Major Intellect to Coagulating Blood (both in one skill) not be considered a buff to the magicka DKs survivability?

It's not that it wouldn't buff magicka DK survivability, it's just that minor changes you propose doesn't really address what gets DKs killed in the open world.

DKs were really good in 1.5 because the game actually considered resource management back then as opposed to just burst damage. DKs were very good at sustain and had logical class feature that synergized with that the way ultimate regeneration worked in Battle Roar. Combine that with an ideal tank skill with Cinderstorm and actually being able to block and DKs could actually stand their ground as opposed to running away. A few extra % damage mitigation won't bring that back.

DK in a really weird place right now in that it's really good at some things like PVE DPS, 1v1, and even in group PvP, but if you try to leave Castle Alessia on your own just to pick some fights the way people did back in the day, it's going to be frustrating as opposed to fun. Of course, that has a lot to do with the patch and how the game has developed since the introduction of the 1.6 patch. Still, this class never should have had Cinderstorm changed from a tank to a DPS skill and the continued enfeeblement of Dragon's Blood is ... inexplicable to put it mildly and kindly.

AlexHo1982

Joy_Division wrote: »

It's not that it wouldn't buff magicka DK survivability, it's just that minor changes you propose doesn't really address what gets DKs killed in the open world.

DKs were really good in 1.5 because the game actually considered resource management back then as opposed to just burst damage. DKs were very good at sustain and had logical class feature that synergized with that the way ultimate regeneration worked in Battle Roar. Combine that with an ideal tank skill with Cinderstorm and actually being able to block and DKs could actually stand their ground as opposed to running away. A few extra % damage mitigation won't bring that back.

DK in a really weird place right now in that it's really good at some things like PVE DPS, 1v1, and even in group PvP, but if you try to leave Castle Alessia on your own just to pick some fights the way people did back in the day, it's going to be frustrating as opposed to fun. Of course, that has a lot to do with the patch and how the game has developed since the introduction of the 1.6 patch. Still, this class never should have had Cinderstorm changed from a tank to a DPS skill and the continued enfeeblement of Dragon's Blood is ... inexplicable to put it mildly and kindly.

I agree with most things people are saying in favor of the mDK, but they will never bring back the DKs of old and we should maybe start looking into suggestions that could be pushed to the devs and have a chance of being implemented. Therefore some small defensive buffs with proper class synergy could have been a start. I did not exclude other ideas except for the ones mainly relating to increase burst damage and mobility. This would simply be overkill and lead to another nerf later on as I stated previously and could be observed so many times in this game.

That said, I somehow still do not understand why our "Battle Roar" passive was weakened further in the IC update (at least for mDKs), since our sustain had been reduced anyway a lot previously. I also agree that they should bring back Cinderstorm, which is a reasonable request and of course Dragon Blood. Any %-heal being affected by the Cyrodil debuff is a bad joke.

Talcyndl

One other thing to note about the TG changes and the Battle Spirit nerf to GDB...

Although not as hyped as the Vicious Death set, the Leki set bonuses are a nice combination of stamina dps and tankiness. But, the 20% hit to all AoE heals makes it hard to use with Vigor. Which makes not being able to use GDB in Cyrodiil suck that much more.

Ghost-Shot

AlexHo1982 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

It's not that it wouldn't buff magicka DK survivability, it's just that minor changes you propose doesn't really address what gets DKs killed in the open world.

DKs were really good in 1.5 because the game actually considered resource management back then as opposed to just burst damage. DKs were very good at sustain and had logical class feature that synergized with that the way ultimate regeneration worked in Battle Roar. Combine that with an ideal tank skill with Cinderstorm and actually being able to block and DKs could actually stand their ground as opposed to running away. A few extra % damage mitigation won't bring that back.

DK in a really weird place right now in that it's really good at some things like PVE DPS, 1v1, and even in group PvP, but if you try to leave Castle Alessia on your own just to pick some fights the way people did back in the day, it's going to be frustrating as opposed to fun. Of course, that has a lot to do with the patch and how the game has developed since the introduction of the 1.6 patch. Still, this class never should have had Cinderstorm changed from a tank to a DPS skill and the continued enfeeblement of Dragon's Blood is ... inexplicable to put it mildly and kindly.

I agree with most things people are saying in favor of the mDK, but they will never bring back the DKs of old and we should maybe start looking into suggestions that could be pushed to the devs and have a chance of being implemented. Therefore some small defensive buffs with proper class synergy could have been a start. I did not exclude other ideas except for the ones mainly relating to increase burst damage and mobility. This would simply be overkill and lead to another nerf later on as I stated previously and could be observed so many times in this game.

That said, I somehow still do not understand why our "Battle Roar" passive was weakened further in the IC update (at least for mDKs), since our sustain had been reduced anyway a lot previously. I also agree that they should bring back Cinderstorm, which is a reasonable request and of course Dragon Blood. Any %-heal being affected by the Cyrodil debuff is a bad joke.

Battle roar was pretty ridiculous up through 1.5 but post 1.6 it wasn't that big of a deal because you could no longer spam ultimates. In my opinion the biggest thing we need is Dragons Blood to ignore battle spirit (igneous shield and blazing shield should as well in my opinion) and stamina regen while blocking, give me those to things and I will be very happy with where the class is at.

Cinbri

1. Give Major Evasion buff to DK while Eruption is ON or for 10 sec after cast of Eruption, since it was removed for same unfair reason as Blinding Light.
2. Remove Battle Spirit from Dragonblood, there is no unfair comparison in dks morphs. That is just that easy.
On other note: if even buffed dks that were already stronger than templars are feel bad now, imagine how is it feel to play magicka nerfplars.

Ghost-Shot

Cinbri wrote: »

1. Give Major Evasion buff to DK while Eruption is ON or for 10 sec after cast of Eruption, since it was removed for same unfair reason as Blinding Light.
2. Remove Battle Spirit from Dragonblood. That is just that easy.
On other note: if even buffed dks that were already stronger than templars are feel bad now, imagine how is it feel to play magicka nerfplars.

I have a magicka templar as well and I find it far easier to play honestly, for the reliable healing and much higher damage output.

Mumyo

Cinbri wrote: »

1. Give Major Evasion buff to DK while Eruption is ON or for 10 sec after cast of Eruption, since it was removed for same unfair reason as Blinding Light.
2. Remove Battle Spirit from Dragonblood, there is no unfair comparison in dks morphs. That is just that easy.
On other note: if even buffed dks that were already stronger than templars are feel bad now, imagine how is it feel to play magicka nerfplars.

That will not buff him in the ways dks need it. That mostly will push him solo and there he is strong enough.
What DKs want will never come back to the game, the big tanky stuff. Meaning infinite wingreflections, templars binding flashes or the old cinder storm...

The things that made u tank zergs and that is not going to happen friends
Permablock etc. is what made people stand their ground against zergs.

This is not a DK issue, its a game design issue.

Dreyloch

Talcyndl wrote: »

One other thing to note about the TG changes and the Battle Spirit nerf to GDB...

Although not as hyped as the Vicious Death set, the Leki set bonuses are a nice combination of stamina dps and tankiness. But, the 20% hit to all AoE heals makes it hard to use with Vigor. Which makes not being able to use GDB in Cyrodiil suck that much more.

The 5th trait on that set is the most useless I've seen to date. But yes, up to 4 pieces makes a nice "off-set". That's it.
I tired the VD set as soon as our rewards bags finally came. My impression is that it's really for Sorcs. Light armor on a DK can make our mostly magicka skills sting hard. But it's just totally impractical for anything else. =/ There should be some kind of medium and heavy armor to either counter-act that set in some way, or do some kind of similar damage. Overall, I wasn't that impressed with the new sets except for maybe Alchemist. However, with 2 and 3 piece as health traits, plus needing a crazy amount of potions on hand all the time, makes it a little impractical too.

Talcyndl

Dreyloch wrote: »

The 5th trait on that set is the most useless I've seen to date. But yes, up to 4 pieces makes a nice "off-set". That's it.

20% overall damage reduction versus all AoE skills is pretty nice. Especially for a 2H stam DK with almost no AoE dps.

frozywozy

Talcyndl wrote: »

Dreyloch wrote: »

The 5th trait on that set is the most useless I've seen to date. But yes, up to 4 pieces makes a nice "off-set". That's it.

20% overall damage reduction versus all AoE skills is pretty nice. Especially for a 2H stam DK with almost no AoE dps.

5pc Leki combined with 5pc Fasalla's Guile is probably the best setup right now for StamDK. I'm really tempted to give it a try as much as I want to respec magicka.

NeoXanthus

Thank you Jules. This thread one of the best I have seen, and explains many aspects over time with the DK. The DK has been my main character for about a year, however I am working on a Templar now just because of some of the things mentioned in this thread.

FloppyTouch

Yes!

K4RMA

Jules wrote: »

Edgar_Baerland wrote: »

@Jules

beautiful post, well thought out. I don't play DK seriously but I can't stand how bad they declawed the class. I remember the DK OP OMG WTF days, and I'd prefer that to this. As much as I feel templars need SERIOUS help (there's basically one offensive build and the rest is just wet noodling people) after reading this and generally just never seeing DKs in PVP anymore I truly feel for dedicated DK players, and I wish they'd be returned to glory, so to speak. I loved the challenge of playing a good DK.

I'm a Templar main through and through, but I'd way rather play against strong, challenging classes than just see the mindless NB/SORC spammers we have now. (not hating on sorcs and NBs but they are FOTM and thus there's a lot of mindless spammers out there)

Sorry it took me so long to respond to this, I just only now saw it.

Thanks, I appreciate the kind words, especially from someone who mains another class. DK's are in such a sad state that I can't even think of more than 1 person who mains a magicka DK anymore, and that's @Etaniel. And he's not even on the same megaserver as me. However, Etaniel's ability to play magicka dk really has nothing to do with the class itself, and is more a testament to his strength as a player and his ability to overcome the weaknesses.

Literally every Magicka DK I know/knew has either transitioned to stam or is playing another class. (Aegon, Kodi, Sypher, Panda, Grom, WRX, Beastswine, DK Babee, Divine Force, Oniric, Reign Supreme, Ariana Kishi, AOE BBQ, Cent Satori, the list goes on and on...) Those who have tried Magicka DK again since IC have liked it for about a day and then reverted back to stam or another class. It's incredibly sad to be honest, as if an entire population just ceased to exist.

I truly hope that with the next patch coming ZOS thinks long and hard about these people and the hundreds if not thousands of others who have abandoned that once beloved spec. To me, magicka dk was the first character I pvp'd on and I would love to return to it. Increased dot times will not solve the slew of fundamental flaws with the class. From the ground up, weak passives (except earthen heart tree) need to be rethought, tankiness needs to be reworked back into the class and FFS give them a functional gap closer without auto cc immunity. No one is advocating for DK's to be as OP as they were initially; just to be on par with other classes.

#GRoMD

Trashkan

I love my Dk Same build for Solo,pvp, and trials Idk what the big fuss is about man up peeps.

FloppyTouch

I love my magic dK never giving up on it I understand it's short comings but I have pride playing it in pvp and killing the FoTM builds. #magicdkpride

Trashkan

Oh yeah forgot to mention I tank on my all light armor magic dk too we just ran through V16 WGT with very little issues.