The Death of the Dragonknight- updated 3/15/16

xEcthelionx

dap_robertb16_ESO wrote: »

Personally, I dislike DKs. A lot of those who play it, especially in the beginning, did so because it was the one build that allowed the to 1vX the best with as little effort as possible and made use of the unbalanced and sometimes broken mechanics. Some of these same people spent the last 12-18 months complaining that ZOS broke DKs because they couldn't 1vX with little effort any more and had to learn something other than block and lol.


However, I strongly support the call to change GDB into what it used to be where you could gain 50-80% of your health back as an emergency heal. All the other changes with the exception of broken wings are bringing DKs back into the equally broken balance of the other classes and will still allow all the good players (note: not those who cheese) to make extremely good viable magicka DKs.

This is so true. I know a certain streamer that gained a ton of notoriety because they posted videos 1vX'ing on a magicka DK. Come to find out, the player doesn't play the class anymore, and still can't play the class because its the "developers ruining the class." Realistically, if you have to change to the new meta every patch just to make yourself look good on your stream, you are pathetic.

kadar

Hey, @Jules so I just read through your post- Thieves Guild update.

You laid out all the Magicka Dragonknights weaknesses (quite nicely, I might add) and show how similar skills or a few skills used together can outshine a MDKs options. You want to be viable in Cyrodiil. Just a few thoughts I pulled out of your post:

DKs are not as good as other builds and need Major Expedition because of the Hasty passive.
" are not as good as other builds and need buffed Coagulating Blood because of BoL.
" are not as good as other builds and need a % Dodge Chance Ability because of Shuffle.
" are not as good as other builds and need and need better gap closer because some gap closers stun.

I agree that MDKs could use a little polishing. But a lot of these suggestions imply that you want to have the exact same tools and strengths as everyone else (And this isn't a MDK vs. everything else scenario; each class/build has tools that others don't, or don't do as well)?

I have always viewed (ZoS too maybe?) DKs as the class that excels at the tanky-warrior type that outshines others in mitigation and toughness. Why should DKs have heals to match the Templar, or mobility to match the Sorc, or damage to match the NB? Especially in a Meta where everyone is doing the same things to be viable, do we really want to make DKs look even more like the other classes? What if we were cool with different classes having different strengths and weakness. So I wonder...

What are your thoughts on the roll of the DK in Cyrodiil moving forward?

(forgive my scattered thoughts)

HoloYoitsu

DKs can wear Fasallas Guile for the group and spam Siege Shields. What more could a class ask for?

Parafrost

@blabafat

Id place DKs at number 3 for ults, templars being the last since the only real good ult they have(in regards to pvp) is rite of passage, which is good in situational things since it cant be interrupted in pvp. The other 2 are replaceable by meteor and dawnbreaker. This is about it as i barely even run out of resources as a dk and talons is really useful in pve and pvp for when i want to make someone run out of resources faster.

HoloYoitsu

Parafrost wrote: »

@blabafat

Id place DKs at number 3 for ults, templars being the last since the only real good ult they have(in regards to pvp) is rite of passage, which is good in situational things since it cant be interrupted in pvp. The other 2 are replaceable by meteor and dawnbreaker. This is about it as i barely even run out of resources as a dk and talons is really useful in pve and pvp for when i want to make someone run out of resources faster.

I don't know what you're talking about. Nova is an amazing ult.

Teridaxus

WTB working dragonblood

Parafrost

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Parafrost wrote: »

@blabafat

Id place DKs at number 3 for ults, templars being the last since the only real good ult they have(in regards to pvp) is rite of passage, which is good in situational things since it cant be interrupted in pvp. The other 2 are replaceable by meteor and dawnbreaker. This is about it as i barely even run out of resources as a dk and talons is really useful in pve and pvp for when i want to make someone run out of resources faster.

I don't know what you're talking about. Nova is an amazing ult.

Rarely seen it used in pvp is what im getting at. Still wouldnt top DKs ults though. That 5k flame damage a second from standard of might is just too nice to miss in pve.

HoloYoitsu

Parafrost wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Parafrost wrote: »

@blabafat

Id place DKs at number 3 for ults, templars being the last since the only real good ult they have(in regards to pvp) is rite of passage, which is good in situational things since it cant be interrupted in pvp. The other 2 are replaceable by meteor and dawnbreaker. This is about it as i barely even run out of resources as a dk and talons is really useful in pve and pvp for when i want to make someone run out of resources faster.

I don't know what you're talking about. Nova is an amazing ult.

Rarely seen it used in pvp is what im getting at. Still wouldnt top DKs ults though. That 5k flame damage a second from standard of might is just too nice to miss in pve.

Groups use Nova all the time, Gravity Crush is one of the best things in the game.

Parafrost

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Parafrost wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Parafrost wrote: »

@blabafat

Id place DKs at number 3 for ults, templars being the last since the only real good ult they have(in regards to pvp) is rite of passage, which is good in situational things since it cant be interrupted in pvp. The other 2 are replaceable by meteor and dawnbreaker. This is about it as i barely even run out of resources as a dk and talons is really useful in pve and pvp for when i want to make someone run out of resources faster.

I don't know what you're talking about. Nova is an amazing ult.

Rarely seen it used in pvp is what im getting at. Still wouldnt top DKs ults though. That 5k flame damage a second from standard of might is just too nice to miss in pve.

Groups use Nova all the time, Gravity Crush is one of the best things in the game.

Guess not on ps4.

Jules

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Parafrost wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Parafrost wrote: »

@blabafat

Id place DKs at number 3 for ults, templars being the last since the only real good ult they have(in regards to pvp) is rite of passage, which is good in situational things since it cant be interrupted in pvp. The other 2 are replaceable by meteor and dawnbreaker. This is about it as i barely even run out of resources as a dk and talons is really useful in pve and pvp for when i want to make someone run out of resources faster.

I don't know what you're talking about. Nova is an amazing ult.

Rarely seen it used in pvp is what im getting at. Still wouldnt top DKs ults though. That 5k flame damage a second from standard of might is just too nice to miss in pve.

Groups use Nova all the time, Gravity Crush is one of the best things in the game.

Nova is very good if you are stacked on a flag and can manage to get that gravity crush synergy off.
In open world people just walk out of it.

As far as ultimates go, I'd have to say in order of best it goes:

1. Nightblades
2. Dragonknights (could be debated to be #3)
3. Sorcerers (could be debated to be #2)
4. Templars

HoloYoitsu

Jules wrote: »

As far as ultimates go, I'd have to say in order of best it goes:

1. Nightblades
2. Dragonknights (could be debated to be #3)
3. Sorcerers (could be debated to be #2)
4. Templars

Wrong.
Wrong.
Wrong.
And wrong.

Here is the correct order of top ults:

1. Shooting Star.
2. Shooting Star.
3. Shooting Star.
4. Shooting Star.

FENGRUSH

Nova is amazing. My templar has always used nova - and itswon so many fights that otherwise couldnt have been won.

themdogesbite

dap_robertb16_ESO wrote: »

Personally, I dislike DKs. A lot of those who play it, especially in the beginning, did so because it was the one build that allowed the to 1vX the best with as little effort as possible and made use of the unbalanced and sometimes broken mechanics. Some of these same people spent the last 12-18 months complaining that ZOS broke DKs because they couldn't 1vX with little effort any more and had to learn something other than block and lol.


However, I strongly support the call to change GDB into what it used to be where you could gain 50-80% of your health back as an emergency heal. All the other changes with the exception of broken wings are bringing DKs back into the equally broken balance of the other classes and will still allow all the good players (note: not those who cheese) to make extremely good viable magicka DKs.

Yeah i agree completely! How DARE magcia DKs utilise one of the few defence mechanisms avaible to them. They should just shield stack or dodgeroll like the rest of us. The worst of the worst are definetly the DKs from launch... With their flappy wings! They just needed to dedicate a entire set in order to only loose all their stamina and not their magica when they wanted to reflect something! Outrageous! The real skilled players played nightblades, VoB and harness magica whilst blocking to mitigate over 100% of magical damage was weak and very very hard to pull of!

Block and lol was what every damn class did, thats not DK specific.

Parafrost

themdogesbite wrote: »

dap_robertb16_ESO wrote: »

Personally, I dislike DKs. A lot of those who play it, especially in the beginning, did so because it was the one build that allowed the to 1vX the best with as little effort as possible and made use of the unbalanced and sometimes broken mechanics. Some of these same people spent the last 12-18 months complaining that ZOS broke DKs because they couldn't 1vX with little effort any more and had to learn something other than block and lol.


However, I strongly support the call to change GDB into what it used to be where you could gain 50-80% of your health back as an emergency heal. All the other changes with the exception of broken wings are bringing DKs back into the equally broken balance of the other classes and will still allow all the good players (note: not those who cheese) to make extremely good viable magicka DKs.

Yeah i agree completely! How DARE magcia DKs utilise one of the few defence mechanisms avaible to them. They should just shield stack or dodgeroll like the rest of us. The worst of the worst are definetly the DKs from launch... With their flappy wings! They just needed to dedicate a entire set in order to only loose all their stamina and not their magica when they wanted to reflect something! Outrageous! The real skilled players played nightblades, VoB and harness magica whilst blocking to mitigate over 100% of magical damage was weak and very very hard to pull of!

Block and lol was what every damn class did, thats not DK specific.

hehe.

Durham

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

As far as ultimates go, I'd have to say in order of best it goes:

1. Nightblades
2. Dragonknights (could be debated to be #3)
3. Sorcerers (could be debated to be #2)
4. Templars

Wrong.
Wrong.
Wrong.
And wrong.

Here is the correct order of top ults:

1. Shooting Star.
2. Shooting Star.
3. Shooting Star.
4. Shooting Star.

so true

Jules

The_Outsider wrote: »

Hey, @Jules so I just read through your post- Thieves Guild update.

You laid out all the Magicka Dragonknights weaknesses (quite nicely, I might add) and show how similar skills or a few skills used together can outshine a MDKs options. You want to be viable in Cyrodiil. Just a few thoughts I pulled out of your post:

DKs are not as good as other builds and need Major Expedition because of the Hasty passive.
" are not as good as other builds and need buffed Coagulating Blood because of BoL.
" are not as good as other builds and need a % Dodge Chance Ability because of Shuffle.
" are not as good as other builds and need and need better gap closer because some gap closers stun.

I agree that MDKs could use a little polishing. But a lot of these suggestions imply that you want to have the exact same tools and strengths as everyone else (And this isn't a MDK vs. everything else scenario; each class/build has tools that others don't, or don't do as well)?

I have always viewed (ZoS too maybe?) DKs as the class that excels at the tanky-warrior type that outshines others in mitigation and toughness. Why should DKs have heals to match the Templar, or mobility to match the Sorc, or damage to match the NB? Especially in a Meta where everyone is doing the same things to be viable, do we really want to make DKs look even more like the other classes? What if we were cool with different classes having different strengths and weakness. So I wonder...

What are your thoughts on the roll of the DK in Cyrodiil moving forward?

(forgive my scattered thoughts)

I can see your point and forgive me for improperly communicating that I want everything that every other class has. My intent was to show how we are weaker in those departments (damage, mobility) and why we need to excel in other departments which we currently do not. This would balance things.

I do not think DK's need to be redefined as a mobile class, however I think some level of mobility is necessary for open world pvp on every class. Otherwise with the way snares and stuns work now, you end up getting permarooted and dying a miserable death.

I agree that ZOS views the class as a tough/mitigating class however I think they have overlooked some things. While other classes are given tools to also mitigate damage (Templars- restoring focus/strong heals/purify, Sorcerers- Hardened Ward, Nightblades- Heals in their damage/doubletake) - DK's have nothing that really outshines any of them in terms of tanking aside from the ult that reduces incoming damage to 3% and a blocking passive that is all but circumstantial with block nerfs. Conversely, while other classes are able to tank, DK's are not able to be mobile in any sense. Do you see the conundrum?

Bashev

Jules wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Hey, @Jules so I just read through your post- Thieves Guild update.

You laid out all the Magicka Dragonknights weaknesses (quite nicely, I might add) and show how similar skills or a few skills used together can outshine a MDKs options. You want to be viable in Cyrodiil. Just a few thoughts I pulled out of your post:

DKs are not as good as other builds and need Major Expedition because of the Hasty passive.
" are not as good as other builds and need buffed Coagulating Blood because of BoL.
" are not as good as other builds and need a % Dodge Chance Ability because of Shuffle.
" are not as good as other builds and need and need better gap closer because some gap closers stun.

I agree that MDKs could use a little polishing. But a lot of these suggestions imply that you want to have the exact same tools and strengths as everyone else (And this isn't a MDK vs. everything else scenario; each class/build has tools that others don't, or don't do as well)?

I have always viewed (ZoS too maybe?) DKs as the class that excels at the tanky-warrior type that outshines others in mitigation and toughness. Why should DKs have heals to match the Templar, or mobility to match the Sorc, or damage to match the NB? Especially in a Meta where everyone is doing the same things to be viable, do we really want to make DKs look even more like the other classes? What if we were cool with different classes having different strengths and weakness. So I wonder...

What are your thoughts on the roll of the DK in Cyrodiil moving forward?

(forgive my scattered thoughts)

I can see your point and forgive me for improperly communicating that I want everything that every other class has. My intent was to show how we are weaker in those departments (damage, mobility) and why we need to excel in other departments which we currently do not. This would balance things.

I do not think DK's need to be redefined as a mobile class, however I think some level of mobility is necessary for open world pvp on every class. Otherwise with the way snares and stuns work now, you end up getting permarooted and dying a miserable death.

I agree that ZOS views the class as a tough/mitigating class however I think they have overlooked some things. While other classes are given tools to also mitigate damage (Templars- restoring focus/strong heals/purify, Sorcerers- Hardened Ward, Nightblades- Heals in their damage/doubletake) - DK's have nothing that really outshines any of them in terms of tanking aside from the ult that reduces incoming damage to 3% and a blocking passive that is all but circumstantial with block nerfs. Conversely, while other classes are able to tank, DK's are not able to be mobile in any sense. Do you see the conundrum?

If we want DKs to be viable in PvP, ZoS needs to buff their survivability. If they buff their mobility, then we have similar classes to what we already have.
ZoS should change Iron skin passive with 50%/100% stamina regen while blocking. Then let the other classes have their mobility, heals, whatever

Jules

Bashev wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Hey, @Jules so I just read through your post- Thieves Guild update.

You laid out all the Magicka Dragonknights weaknesses (quite nicely, I might add) and show how similar skills or a few skills used together can outshine a MDKs options. You want to be viable in Cyrodiil. Just a few thoughts I pulled out of your post:

DKs are not as good as other builds and need Major Expedition because of the Hasty passive.
" are not as good as other builds and need buffed Coagulating Blood because of BoL.
" are not as good as other builds and need a % Dodge Chance Ability because of Shuffle.
" are not as good as other builds and need and need better gap closer because some gap closers stun.

I agree that MDKs could use a little polishing. But a lot of these suggestions imply that you want to have the exact same tools and strengths as everyone else (And this isn't a MDK vs. everything else scenario; each class/build has tools that others don't, or don't do as well)?

I have always viewed (ZoS too maybe?) DKs as the class that excels at the tanky-warrior type that outshines others in mitigation and toughness. Why should DKs have heals to match the Templar, or mobility to match the Sorc, or damage to match the NB? Especially in a Meta where everyone is doing the same things to be viable, do we really want to make DKs look even more like the other classes? What if we were cool with different classes having different strengths and weakness. So I wonder...

What are your thoughts on the roll of the DK in Cyrodiil moving forward?

(forgive my scattered thoughts)

I can see your point and forgive me for improperly communicating that I want everything that every other class has. My intent was to show how we are weaker in those departments (damage, mobility) and why we need to excel in other departments which we currently do not. This would balance things.

I do not think DK's need to be redefined as a mobile class, however I think some level of mobility is necessary for open world pvp on every class. Otherwise with the way snares and stuns work now, you end up getting permarooted and dying a miserable death.

I agree that ZOS views the class as a tough/mitigating class however I think they have overlooked some things. While other classes are given tools to also mitigate damage (Templars- restoring focus/strong heals/purify, Sorcerers- Hardened Ward, Nightblades- Heals in their damage/doubletake) - DK's have nothing that really outshines any of them in terms of tanking aside from the ult that reduces incoming damage to 3% and a blocking passive that is all but circumstantial with block nerfs. Conversely, while other classes are able to tank, DK's are not able to be mobile in any sense. Do you see the conundrum?

If we want DKs to be viable in PvP, ZoS needs to buff their survivability. If they buff their mobility, then we have similar classes to what we already have.
ZoS should change Iron skin passive with 50%/100% stamina regen while blocking. Then let the other classes have their mobility, heals, whatever

That would be fine with me.

Ishammael

xEcthelionx wrote: »

How you reposition when 2-3 people jump on you, you don't. You stand your ground like a beast and own their soul.

The class is not built to be able to reposition easily or effectively nor is it built to tank a large amount of damage while dishing it out (Sorc). The class currently excels in doing sustained AoE and single target dps while healing through damage not spamming GDB which btw took absolutely no skill so it is not a surprise all of the forum whiners are calling for that instead of learning to play.

"Stand your ground like a beast and own their soul"

With what skill? How do you do this without blocking?

"Sustained AoE DPS?"

Is this a joke?

"Single target DPS"

Compared to what?

dap_robertb16_ESO wrote: »

Personally, I dislike DKs. A lot of those who play it, especially in the beginning, did so because it was the one build that allowed the to 1vX the best with as little effort as possible and made use of the unbalanced and sometimes broken mechanics. Some of these same people spent the last 12-18 months complaining that ZOS broke DKs because they couldn't 1vX with little effort any more and had to learn something other than block and lol.


However, I strongly support the call to change GDB into what it used to be where you could gain 50-80% of your health back as an emergency heal. All the other changes with the exception of broken wings are bringing DKs back into the equally broken balance of the other classes and will still allow all the good players (note: not those who cheese) to make extremely good viable magicka DKs.

This is really disingenuous and untrue. DKs were unbalanced -- at the very beginning of the game, maybe pre 1.2. Half of that was due to Vampire which any class could use. Do you remember 0-cost bats on sorcs?

By about 1.4 - 1.5 DK was much more even against all of the other three classes. Dynamic ult probably needed to be tuned down just a touch -- but not the DK class skilss. There are plenty of 1vX videos from that time period of Sorcs and NBs -- those classes were simply less straightforward to play. Do you remember sap tanks? Instant negates? Ezareth streaking across the map?

In any case, DK was the class most effected by the overall balance changes of the game mechanics. More than any other, the DK was built around dynamic ultimate. Its class passives are incredibly weak in comparison to Battle Roar -- which was fair the time. mDK has simply not been compensated for the loss of sustain that dynamic ultimate provided. Go down the list of class passives DK vs. any other and you'll realize how weak they are. Go through the skill damage coefficients. Examine gameplay styles of open world Cyrodiil.

xEcthelionx wrote: »

This is so true. I know a certain streamer that gained a ton of notoriety because they posted videos 1vX'ing on a magicka DK. Come to find out, the player doesn't play the class anymore, and still can't play the class because its the "developers ruining the class." Realistically, if you have to change to the new meta every patch just to make yourself look good on your stream, you are pathetic.

Actually, Sypher has done the smart thing. Which is play the class that is most fun. Its not his fault that ZoS balance attempts have swung wildly to-and-fro. mDK is absolutely terrible in open world, hence he doesn't play it. NBs and Sorcs have a ton more tools available to them.

MaxwellC

@Jules

I wish you'd talk more of stamina DKs as we're hurting quite a bit. Movement wise we're not hurting since we've got gap closers like crit charge and healing we're decent on thanks to vigor/rally but when it comes to DPS there's just no good burst damage other than a wrecking blow with animation cancelled abilities/heavy attacks. We can't even regen stamina while sprinting or moving in stealth anymore along with no shield regen, I mean as a magicka DK I can block cast all day but as a stamina DK I can't since I rely on stamina for my DPS.

ZoS still hasn't given me back my flames of oblivion, DoTs still suck as a stamina class in PvP, we loss a class execute that was good for PvE, Reflective scales is back to it's antics (Thanks ZoS for more bugs that were introduced in the game when this wasn't even in PTS!), Earthen heart passive still only gives 5% stamina back instead of 10%+ like it should be since I'm paying well over 3.4k magicka for just some stamina back; I mean the list can go on.(Clarification I want helping hands to give 10% back in stamina resources up from 5%)

ZoS needs to make stamina DoTs give major defile or add something like a shield breaker effect that drains shields faster, maybe even a Velocious curse type of explosion after being purged.

Green Dragons blood still stupid as it gets over-written with potions and still doesn't stack and as you mentioned battle spirit makes for this ability to be even more worthless.

ub17_ESO

Jules wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Hey, @Jules so I just read through your post- Thieves Guild update.

You laid out all the Magicka Dragonknights weaknesses (quite nicely, I might add) and show how similar skills or a few skills used together can outshine a MDKs options. You want to be viable in Cyrodiil. Just a few thoughts I pulled out of your post:

DKs are not as good as other builds and need Major Expedition because of the Hasty passive.
" are not as good as other builds and need buffed Coagulating Blood because of BoL.
" are not as good as other builds and need a % Dodge Chance Ability because of Shuffle.
" are not as good as other builds and need and need better gap closer because some gap closers stun.

I agree that MDKs could use a little polishing. But a lot of these suggestions imply that you want to have the exact same tools and strengths as everyone else (And this isn't a MDK vs. everything else scenario; each class/build has tools that others don't, or don't do as well)?

I have always viewed (ZoS too maybe?) DKs as the class that excels at the tanky-warrior type that outshines others in mitigation and toughness. Why should DKs have heals to match the Templar, or mobility to match the Sorc, or damage to match the NB? Especially in a Meta where everyone is doing the same things to be viable, do we really want to make DKs look even more like the other classes? What if we were cool with different classes having different strengths and weakness. So I wonder...

What are your thoughts on the roll of the DK in Cyrodiil moving forward?

(forgive my scattered thoughts)

I can see your point and forgive me for improperly communicating that I want everything that every other class has. My intent was to show how we are weaker in those departments (damage, mobility) and why we need to excel in other departments which we currently do not. This would balance things.

I do not think DK's need to be redefined as a mobile class, however I think some level of mobility is necessary for open world pvp on every class. Otherwise with the way snares and stuns work now, you end up getting permarooted and dying a miserable death.

I agree that ZOS views the class as a tough/mitigating class however I think they have overlooked some things. While other classes are given tools to also mitigate damage (Templars- restoring focus/strong heals/purify, Sorcerers- Hardened Ward, Nightblades- Heals in their damage/doubletake) - DK's have nothing that really outshines any of them in terms of tanking aside from the ult that reduces incoming damage to 3% and a blocking passive that is all but circumstantial with block nerfs. Conversely, while other classes are able to tank, DK's are not able to be mobile in any sense. Do you see the conundrum?

Reflective scales is unique to DK, not as strong as it was, but very useful when it isnt broken.

DKsUnite

Tbh i have actually come to realise its not even dragon blood and damage thats a problem. (while i do understand DB is still broken af). Its the no stam regen while blocking which broke everything. I never die because i cant outheal the incoming damage. I never die because i kill to slowly (which i dont anymore). I die because i have to block damage because everyone hits so god damn hard and is specced into full dps mode and not even heavy armour can protect you, and then once i lose all my stamina, i get CCed and then its game over.

Ishammael

DKsUnite wrote: »

Tbh i have actually come to realise its not even dragon blood and damage thats a problem. (while i do understand DB is still broken af). Its the no stam regen while blocking which broke everything. I never die because i cant outheal the incoming damage. I never die because i kill to slowly (which i dont anymore). I die because i have to block damage because everyone hits so god damn hard and is specced into full dps mode and not even heavy armour can protect you, and then once i lose all my stamina, i get CCed and then its game over.

aka Dynamic Ultimate + Battle Roar.

Bashev

DKsUnite wrote: »

Tbh i have actually come to realise its not even dragon blood and damage thats a problem. (while i do understand DB is still broken af). Its the no stam regen while blocking which broke everything. I never die because i cant outheal the incoming damage. I never die because i kill to slowly (which i dont anymore). I die because i have to block damage because everyone hits so god damn hard and is specced into full dps mode and not even heavy armour can protect you, and then once i lose all my stamina, i get CCed and then its game over.

Yep when you play DK this is what happens. Suddenly all NBs and Sorcs (allies) around you reposition themselves and you stay there to take the punches. You block for 5 seconds then no more stamina and you are dead.

@MaxwellCrystal
Helping hands passive has never been 10%. It has always been 5% from your max stamina.

MaxwellC

@Bashev
I should clarify, I want helping hands to give 10% stamina back rather than 5% as I'm paying well over 3.4k magicka to gain so little stamina.

_Chaos

@MaxwellCrystal did you just say you're having trouble with burst as a 2h stam DK?

WB->Leap->Executioner if need be.

Yes they're weapon line skills, but that's what you get for being stam, there's a trade off between class and weapon skills.

Block casting all day as a magicka DK? No. You have 3-4 blocks and you're OOS. With ~800 stam regen that'll get you killed real fast unless you want to spam ig shield for 5% of a 13k stam pool.

DoT's suck in PVP period.
Your class execute in PVE should be Executioner not molten heavies.

edit: took out stuff about s&b puncture LA bash weaving, thought he said he was S&B/2h.

MaxwellC

@spenc_cathb16_ESO
Molt Armament heavy was way better for execute if you're weaving in other abilities so that's a no (post patch better than executioner IMO).

So You want me to WB and somehow hit through the shield then leap into a block while executioner spam while they block. That just doesn't work.

Stamina DKs had something good prior to the changes and that was Flames of Oblivion but that's gone to a mage light reskin so nope pretty bad and unstable flames/ burning breath are jokes in PvE and PvP.

You can definitely block cast all day as a Magicka DK and no they do not take 3 to 4 hits block casting I can very well get some clips in today of me fighting some pretty good magicka DKs like I did yesterday who block casted me all day firing off CCs left n right with flame lash following up with DoTs. You can block cast don't even exaggerate saying it's only 3 to 4 hits.

Executioner isn't a class execute but a skill line execute the fact that as a DK we lost ours is non-negotiable and out right stupid when the explanation revolved around "Homogenizing" the classes and that "You shouldn't have to worry about a DK executing you".

As a Stam DK costs for break frees is still pretty high and if I gotta keep fighting against a magicka DKs DoTs and burst damage then I'll be using vigor/rally more often on top of block casting too. Any Magicka DK who has a good rotation will definitely have a CC or two when it comes to PvP.

Bashev

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

@spenc_cathb16_ESO
Molt Armament heavy was way better for execute if you're weaving in other abilities so that's a no (post patch better than executioner IMO).

So You want me to WB and somehow hit through the shield then leap into a block while executioner spam while they block. That just doesn't work.

Stamina DKs had something good prior to the changes and that was Flames of Oblivion but that's gone to a mage light reskin so nope pretty bad and unstable flames/ burning breath are jokes in PvE and PvP.

You can definitely block cast all day as a Magicka DK and no they do not take 3 to 4 hits block casting I can very well get some clips in today of me fighting some pretty good magicka DKs like I did yesterday who block casted me all day firing off CCs left n right with flame lash following up with DoTs. You can block cast don't even exaggerate saying it's only 3 to 4 hits.

Executioner isn't a class execute but a skill line execute the fact that as a DK we lost ours is non-negotiable and out right stupid when the explanation revolved around "Homogenizing" the classes and that "You shouldn't have to worry about a DK executing you".

As a Stam DK costs for break frees is still pretty high and if I gotta keep fighting against a magicka DKs DoTs and burst damage then I'll be using vigor/rally more often on top of block casting too. Any Magicka DK who has a good rotation will definitely have a CC or two when it comes to PvP.

Are you talking about 1vs1 (magicka DK vs Stamina DK)? Cause DKs do not have any issues in Duels. They are awesome for duels. They have issues in open world PvP.

MaxwellC

@Bashev
Well when I faced the Magicka DK yesterday and prior it was always on a 1 v 1 bases since everyone else was either dead or not in the area.
Yes it is Stamina DK vs Magicka DK

I'm mainly pointing out that block casting isn't fair when its Magicka DK vs Stam DK. Each Magicka DK I've fought always rocking SnB and as a stam DK I rock 2h+DW or 2h+Bow

Jules

DKsUnite wrote: »

Tbh i have actually come to realise its not even dragon blood and damage thats a problem. (while i do understand DB is still broken af). Its the no stam regen while blocking which broke everything. I never die because i cant outheal the incoming damage. I never die because i kill to slowly (which i dont anymore). I die because i have to block damage because everyone hits so god damn hard and is specced into full dps mode and not even heavy armour can protect you, and then once i lose all my stamina, i get CCed and then its game over.

I mean, I think the class has plenty of other weaknesses other than just the inability to block for very long. This was admittedly a very hard hitting nerf to DK's. However, I still think that the heals are abysmal when compared with other heals and to have to artificially increase coag blood with high health on off bar is clever albeit sad. The fact that DK's have to sacrifice magicka to heal themselves is just plain sad. The fact that we need to basically stack all three resource pools when almost every other class and spec can stack their damage pool and get to an acceptable health is unfair. We needartificially increased health to heal, magicka to do damage and stamina to block all this high high dps. One is always too low no matter how you slice it and the result is the mDK we have now.

However, I will say that I wouldn't want all buffs to suddenly come about in one patch. Perhaps I was naive to expect DK to be viable in PVP after these recent buffs. Going forward, I would like to see small incremental buffs to see where the true largest weakness really resides and to avoid making the class OP again.