Is anything going to be done about puncturing strikes?

tplink3r1

LOL, 3 pages and only 1 agree! FAIL.

Ezareth

Soris wrote: »

@Ezareth can you remove that post please

@soris What Post?

tinythinker

Minno wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

3. This is a channeled ability and you can't block while using it, so the caster is open to all forms of crowd control: roots, snares, disorients, stuns, knockbacks, knockdowns, etc. If you have a stamina Nightblade with you, for example, use Fear, Wrecking Blow, Wrecking Blow, Ambush, Wrecking Blow, Fear, Wrecking Blow, Wrecking Blow, Ambush...

Seriously. That. There. It gives my Templar nightmares at night. Also almost always kills me. Maybe a long time PvP'er can deal with the constant CC's/Roots/Snares.. but I have not yet found the way. (Yes, I break free, that only works a couple times)

Wearing a piece of medium armor and using Shuffle ("While wearing Medium Armor, removes and grants immunity to snaring effects. Increases snare immunity duration by .5 seconds for each piece of Medium Armor equipped") can help a little, as does purging/cleansing snares. Doesn't help with knockdowns/knockups/knockbacks or stuns, though.

Shuffle gives you an auto-dodge chance in addition to immunity to snares, which saves stamina to break free from other forms of crowd control. Purge/Cleansing Ritual also saves on breaking free from snares. If you are doing the "all three armor types" gear set for the Undaunted passive, like 5L/1M/1H or 5H/1M/1L might want to add Shuffle to the line-up.

Bundle it with spectres eye if your magika

Spectres Eye was changed in 2.1 to giving Major Evasion, the same buff as Shuffle, so it can't stack.

Soris

Ezareth wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

@Ezareth can you remove that post please

@soris What Post?

Ahaha awesome. That must be kept secret for all costs until fix

Kobaal

You must counter spam ability with another spam ability. Sidestep then Wrecking blow. Ahhhh sweet ironic justice.

McSwaggins

Just got hit with a 8.2k Jab. I love templars

myrrrorb14_ESO

Puncturing strikes are so OP. Its like unlimited power.

If you would be so kind as to stand still and not defend while I assault you with its massive dps for the next 3 minutes!

I lost track what was this thread supposed to be about? I know the ability is spammed alot, but its pretty ineffective in PvP.

Alcast

McSwaggins wrote: »

Just got hit with a 8.2k Jab. I love templars

This is not possible, just sayin.

Fizzlewizzle

Alcast wrote: »

McSwaggins wrote: »

Just got hit with a 8.2k Jab. I love templars

This is not possible, just sayin.

The guy probably stood in the full channel without blocking or defensing or anything.
Death Recap shows full channels rather than individual hits, main reason people always flip out about RD, as you get a decent number from full 3 second channel when a Execute skill (even if the individual non-execute ticks suck).

Anazasi

Nothing will be done to this so learn to counter it.

Lettigall

Reason why puncturing strikes looks OP is because of 50% dmg reduction in PvP. This ability is same as it was in 1.6, now thanks to damage reduction templar isn't easily killed while channeling this ability. In 1.6 it was hard to channel this ability more then 2-3 times in row and stay alive against competent enemy. This update didn't make strikes stronger it simply allowed to spam it.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

I love that this thread is still going. I like to imagine OP is still laying dead in crackhead cave fuming about those damn unkillable Templars.

rfennell_ESO

If you use a bow...

Magnum shot.

It makes for one confused Templar if puncturing strikes is their go to.

Knootewoot

Puncturing strike pfff. dodge roll, run around target, fear, block, wrecking blow, detection potions, run away, ranged attacks.

No need to cry nerf again about a skill. geez when does it end.

Master_Kas

Knootewoot wrote: »

Puncturing strike pfff. dodge roll, run around target, fear, block, wrecking blow, detection potions, run away, ranged attacks.

No need to cry nerf again about a skill. geez when does it end.

It never ends until we basiclly have cooldowns or when light/heavy attacks trumps skills.

Etaniel

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

While I agree that there is some way to counter Puncturing Sweep (CC, walk through the attacker, ...), this ability is still OP. It's the only ability they use in the sewers against pack of mobs, and they really don't need to use any other ability. That's a really poor meta game.

Not a great argument, most classes/build rely on one major dps skill, whether it's crushing shock, lava whip, surprise attack, there's always a spammable skill. So saying it's dumb because you can spam it goes against the whole mechanics of this game ^^

Ezareth

Had to fight 2 templars spamming this garbage on me last night. It took me a little longer than normal but they both died all the same. Deep Slash > Animation Cancel Bash > Wrecking Blow > Heavy Attack

I don't see what the problem is other than someone died in PvP. Is there anything actually bugged with this that someone can prove?

DeanTheCat

Master_Kas wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

Puncturing strike pfff. dodge roll, run around target, fear, block, wrecking blow, detection potions, run away, ranged attacks.

No need to cry nerf again about a skill. geez when does it end.

It never ends until we basiclly have cooldowns or when light/heavy attacks trumps skills.

@Master_Kas , you forgot about my Bow Light/Heavy attack build already? The one with the exploding arrows. That build has Light/Heavy attacks trump skills. Snipe level damage from Heavy Attacks

Master_Kas

DeanTheCat wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

Puncturing strike pfff. dodge roll, run around target, fear, block, wrecking blow, detection potions, run away, ranged attacks.

No need to cry nerf again about a skill. geez when does it end.

It never ends until we basiclly have cooldowns or when light/heavy attacks trumps skills.

@Master_Kas , you forgot about my Bow Light/Heavy attack build already? The one with the exploding arrows. That build has Light/Heavy attacks trump skills. Snipe level damage from Heavy Attacks

Damn, we're already there oO That build is crazy. Luckily I'm on EP now

Cody

last I recall, the damage is low. It only ever threatened me if they caught me in an unbreakable stunlock.

If you have a hard time being mobile against the player, hit em with a snare. snares reduce the "turn around speed"of an enemy, allowing you to stay behind them easier. Its how I dealt with things such as flame whip spam back when I played.

Dredlord

Minno wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

rokrdt05 wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

Things to consider. Some mentioned already in this thread, some not, but worth considering:

1. Puncturing Strikes has two morphs, a stamina morph called Biting Jabs that grants Major Savagery and is the "DPS" version, and Puncturing Sweep which heals for some of the damage done but which does less damage overall.

2. All forms of the ability are frontal conal attacks that knockback one target after the four strikes per cast are done; because there is no collision, you can run/roll right into a caster to get behind them and out of the effect range.

3. This is a channeled ability and you can't block while using it, so the caster is open to all forms of crowd control: roots, snares, disorients, stuns, knockbacks, knockdowns, etc. If you have a stamina Nightblade with you, for example, use Fear, Wrecking Blow, Wrecking Blow, Ambush, Wrecking Blow, Fear, Wrecking Blow, Wrecking Blow, Ambush...

4. This is a melee range ability, so hitting the caster from a distance works wonders. Especially if the skill used stuns casters (like Venom Arrow). There are also charge abilities (like Shield Charge/its morphs or Toppling Charge) and AoEs (such as Deep Breath) that stun casters.

5. Puncturing Strikes and its morphs have *always* been great against trash mobs or inexperienced players in confined spaces, but so is all other melee-range AoE. That gives (magicka) Templars more usefulness in IC, but that is contextual. Outside of IC, in the open field, this advantage with a skill like Puncturing Strikes goes away. Observe how many "Awesome Templar PvP" videos featuring Strikes tend to focus on drawing or finding enemies in(to) confined areas (of approach or maneuverability) such as towers, doorways, breaches, narrow spaces/ledges under bridges, stairways, etc. This is not by accident.

6. The ultimate the OP is referring to is most likely Nova or one of its morphs, which, like the Nightblade's ulti Veil of Blades, reduces damage from enemies in its AoE range while dealing damage to those same enemies. DO NOT EVER fight a Templar inside a Nova, unless you are really good at PvP and want to show off. Let the Nova end before engaging in melee range. The Solar Prison morph is good for being in a group (even a two player group) because of the more powerful synergy, but the other morph, Solar Disturbance, can be better for solo play because it has a massive snare to anyone in its range. Drop it to snare your foes, then Puncturing Strikes for the win while they keep taking damage from your ulti. Counter by using an ability like Purge or Retreating Maneuvers to remove the snare, or, just stay at range.

7. Disease enchants on weapons, meatbag catapults, weapon abilities like Lethal Arrow, class abilities like Dark Flare, etc, etc, give a great healing debuff that can mess up Templars. Yes, they can hit Purge or Cleansing Ritual, but that takes up magicka and casting that otherwise would go to DPS. In a 3v1, someone should be trying to debuff a healer of any class, including similar melee range AoE spammers like SapBlades.

TL;DR - the "advantage" Templars have with a skill like Puncturing Strikes is situational and knowing how/why it (and other commonly used class abilities) work and what the advantages/disadvantages are makes a difference. Debuff and CC the caster, roll into Puncuring Strikes and out the other side, stay out of Novas, and don't chase Templars into confined/narrow spaces.

1. Both versions are "DPS" versions and both do extremely well if you have the right build. You must obviously be a stamina Templar to make that claim.

5. Any competent Templar will be able to use jabs regardless of their position and the quality of their opponent, open field or not. Templars who actually pvp and use this ability have an assortment of abilities to use to be able to keep their opponent in the jabs.

7. Again you must be a stamina Templar as magicka Templars do not have to worry about spending magicka to cleanse.

1. Yes, both do DPS and any ability can hit harder with "the right build", but Jabs has always been viewed as offering higher damage in a base comparison of its tooltip description to Sweep. Prior to it becoming a stamina morph and before the standardized buff system of 1.6, Jabs had a higher crit chance for low health enemies. After becoming a stamina morph and with the addition of the standardized buff system, it simply procs a buff for higher weapon crit.

Puncturing Sweep used to be a the lesser choice back when Jabs was a magicka skill hitting low health targets for higher damage, with its claim to fame being a larger conal area of effect. When they made changes to Puncturing Sweep they decided to give it a healing element to make it more appealing and to make up for taking away the morph with the crit buff from magicka builds.

In other words the ability went from Jabs hitting for more crit damage and Sweep hitting more targets, to Jabs hitting for more crit damage and Sweeping giving a heal. Which is how I summarized it in the comment you quoted, complete with "DPS" being in quotes to point out that this view can be misleading.

5. That misses my point entirely, which was very clearly made: "Puncturing Strikes and its morphs have *always* been great against trash mobs or inexperienced players in confined spaces, but so is all other melee-range AoE." It isn't whether a skilled Templar can use Strikes in a variety of locations, it's that any melee range AoE, including Strikes, is going to be *more* effective in confined/narrow spaces. That's a big part of why people are complaining about Strikes in Cyrodiil delves and in IC. Any Templar, of any skill, can do much better with Strikes in the alleys of the districts and in the sewer tunnels. With lower damage from opponents as part of 2.1, spamming this skill has less risk than before as well, making it even more effective in tight spaces.

7. Again, I was very clear: "Yes, they can hit Purge or Cleansing Ritual, but that takes up magicka and casting that otherwise would go to DPS." I never said magicka Templars would quickly run out of magicka just from Cleansing alone, yet forcing any healing magicka build to constantly fight off debuffs means less casting of other abilities (like those that do damage) and more openings for opponents, especially in a 1 v 3 like the OP was describing.

If the Templar has a magicka build for greater sustain decreasing their DPS even more is a boon, and if they are built as a glass cannon with low sustain decreasing DPS and costing that opponent more magicka over time is an especially good thing. I personally rarely run out of magicka even with a higher damage build (Argonian potion buff helps as do CS points in spell cost reduction and magicka regen) but not every magicka Templar will have the gear and experience to make sure of that, and some stam Templars may have magicka sustain issues, so why not press every possible advantage?

In an extended fight like what happens more often now, why not make magicka Templars cast attack skill less and leave them with less magicka/interrupt their healing a bit, especially in a group fight?

Summary: Your incorrect assertions that I have no experience with magicka Templar play doesn't change what I wrote in terms of advice to the OP. If you let a Templar get you into a hard to maneuver space and you don't try to CC/Debuff the Templar in a 1 v X situation, you are giving an advantage to that opponent, and giving away an advantage in PvP is never a good strategy.

I want to add that the mag version of jabs does not count towards CC immunity. While the spell is easily countered, its CC knock back no longer counts towards immunity. Stam version still has CC immunity attached but high dmg potential.

Absolutely incorrect, using puncturing sweep last night and it's definitely giving immunity after its KB