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keep pvp out of the sewers
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ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
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Monster helms are a special drop and are not required to CRAFT gear of all levels and types through out the entire game.
Monster sets, PVP specific dropped gear like Ravager's, and PVE specific dropped gear like Dreugh King Slayer should all have a specialized way to attain them. That's the reason for having DSA and Trials and they have to have something special in regards to that. Those drops are not "required" for gear progression, they just give you different bonus options but base states are mainly the same.
HOWEVER, mats like the colossus ingots, glyphs/runestones, potion solvents etc, required to create new V16 CRAFTED gear of any kind should never ever ever have been placed behind a form of play or a zone without evening the field of being able to acquire them whether you pvp or pve.
That's my point stating their (the MATERIALS) acquisition is behind a play wall.
ZOS needs to balance it so that the scaled dungeon mobs in the V16 dungeons also drop v16 white armor so it can be deconstructed to gain mats. That or they should remove the ability to purchase mats with tel var stones.
You can still get the mats through the old dungeons even when you get only few out of a run. It is a real possibility. Compare that to the 2 piece undaunted sets or anything else that is bound on pickup. That is a "play wall" as you define it.
And no, it is not a problem if crafters will "NEED" to buy their materials because they don't like the way you get them most efficiently or are too lazy to do it the long way. There are games in wich it is not possible to get mats ready for crafting any other way than to buy them (with only one character).DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU1 -
cjthibs✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's just simpler not to buy it and inform others not to buy it either and to make sure people really know what this DLC is going to be like BEFORE they purchase it so they can make an informed decision.
If you're not going to buy it, why bother with all this argument?
You're just making yourself appear petty. You didn't get your way, we get it, but the vast majority of folks I've been talking to are really looking forward to Imperial City the way it is right now. (And they're worse than Carebears, they're roleplayers. Yeah, chew on that one, the roleplayers aren't afraid of Imperial City.)
The information on how this all works is already out there, we really don't need your simple-minded form of brinkmanship.
The sewers are the low-risk area of the Imperial City where you can go to farm TV stones. If that doesn't work for you, then carry on as usual and wait the three months until Orsinium comes out and you can have all the mindless/risk-less mobs you want, not to mention regular old crafting nodes that will undoubtedly be lying about all over the ground, free for the taking.3 -
Nebthet78✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It's just simpler not to buy it and inform others not to buy it either and to make sure people really know what this DLC is going to be like BEFORE they purchase it so they can make an informed decision.
If you're not going to buy it, why bother with all this argument?
You're just making yourself appear petty. You didn't get your way, we get it, but the vast majority of folks I've been talking to are really looking forward to Imperial City the way it is right now. (And they're worse than Carebears, they're roleplayers. Yeah, chew on that one, the roleplayers aren't afraid of Imperial City.)
The information on how this all works is already out there, we really don't need your simple-minded form of brinkmanship.
The sewers are the low-risk area of the Imperial City where you can go to farm TV stones. If that doesn't work for you, then carry on as usual and wait the three months until Orsinium comes out and you can have all the mindless/risk-less mobs you want, not to mention regular old crafting nodes that will undoubtedly be lying about all over the ground, free for the taking.
I knew you would try to use that paragraph like a dog with a pork chop. You don't have any real argument against why ZOS can't do a simple implementation of allowing all the mobs in the dungeons to drop the new leveled white gear for deconstruction do you? Especially since it doesn't directly influence your PVP play.
In regards to my quote: It is a statement I am going to say over and over again with many other players and ZOS needs to take their fingers out of their ears and hear it.
As it stands right now with IC, no I will not buy it. That is not a threat. It is a fact!
Neither with a lot of other players. A few have already cancelled their subs so they don't have IC in their face. I have ensured players outside the forums have a link to this PTS forum and twitch streams so they can see IC for themselves and make their own decision.
Why is that so threatening?
With a couple simple changes that will not effect the current PVP happening in IC, ZOS would sway a heck of a lot of players into purchasing the DLC who, like me, are not happy with a few of the the decisions they have made with it.
Call it Petty if you want, BUT this is a PAID DLC. It's not free. It is paid for with a person's money and therefore every one has a right to have a say about it whether you agree with their opinion or not. People have a right to say what they want about it as well. I also have the right not to purchase it and to let ZOS know my reasons why I am not going to be doing so.
I have been on the PTS. I don't like the style of PVP game play IC encourages and therefore will not participate in that. I don't even want the chance of encountering it in the sewers. Tel Var stones are not my objective. I don't want them.
I would do the dungeons instead (as was ZOS' intention for PVE players), but their measly drop rates for V15/16 gear for me to deconstruct is not worth my time to do them over and over again until I get the 3500 mats I need to make new/upgrade my current gear for 1 character so I can continue to PVE.
Pulling a specific quote out of a whole post and calling it simple-minded brinkmanship if you want, but it just shows you have no argument against my idea and you utterly negate any standing you have. I am not going to concede and buy into IC the way it is.
And by referring it to a brinkmanship, you are basically stating that IC is in a dangerous place right now. Thanks for admitting that.
How many times now have PVE players experiences been changed and interfered with because of PVP QQing on imbalanced abilities in Cyrodiil? I heck of a lot. Guess what? There is never going to be a balance! Yet, changes are made and affect PVE players game, not just your PVP players.
The change I propose is just going to affect the PVE players in IC. NO ONE ELSE.
If you cannot make that small concession which affects a large group of players who might otherwise not purchase IC, then maybe I'm not the one being petty.
Far too many characters to list any more.2 -
cjthibs✭✭✭✭✭
✭Neither with a lot of other players. A few have already cancelled their subs so they don't have IC in their face. I have ensured players outside the forums have a link to this PTS forum and twitch streams so they can see IC for themselves and make their own decision.
Why is that so threatening?
...
And by referring it to a brinkmanship, you are basically stating that IC is in a dangerous place right now. Thanks for admitting that.
How many times now have PVE players experiences been changed and interfered with because of PVP QQing on imbalanced abilities in Cyrodiil? I heck of a lot. Guess what? There is never going to be a balance! Yet, changes are made and affect PVE players game, not just your PVP players.
The change I propose is just going to affect the PVE players in IC. NO ONE ELSE.
If you cannot make that small concession which affects a large group of players who might otherwise not purchase IC, then maybe I'm not the one being petty.
It's not threatening. What I dislike is coloring other people's opinions with false information.
If you'd slow down and read what I wrote, nowhere in there did I say I disagreed with your point. What I said is that your language is wrong. It is not impossible to get the gear, however, the most efficient way to get it is what you're not interested in. There -are- actually other things that are impossible to get except for playing one specific way, i.e. dungeon gear...anything BOP.
The crafting materials are not impossible to get, you just don't want to do what's necessary to gather them efficiently. There is a difference here. And I suspect you're running off and repeating the same points you've made here, basically that ZoS is preventing anyone but PvP'ers from getting the gear, which is just not true.
As to balancing for PvP...why would you balance for PvE? You're fighting a bunch of mobs that, if you're good, you should have no expectation of losing to.
What's the point of making it fair, after all the whining ZOS will just make them easier and easier, as they've repeatedly done since launch. (Mentioned this another thread already once today. Anyone remember how tough Doshia was? or the original Molag Bal fight?) This isn't speculation, this has already happened. PVP is the only mode of the game that balance matters.
The brinkmanship that I'm referring to is your repeated implications that this will ruin the game, drive off players, etc.
You don't know that will happen and neither do I.
PTS is an approximation of what IC -could- look like on live. There will be changes made, some have been announced already, others haven't. Calling out everything you disagree with as terrible and unfair and game-ruining is brinkmanship, and it's a good way to have your points not be heard.
Want to change things? Gather some data, present your points calmly and coherently and don't be upset when someone disagrees.
I would hope that most players would be mature enough to see that the ruleset in Imperial City is just that, the ruleset in Imperial City. Every subsequent update will most likely follow the same rulesets as any other PvE zone. Asking them to change the Imperial City ruleset to cater to PvE-only players who will be getting more and more and more updates in the future is just selfish and childish. You'll get yours, let those of us who want Imperial City have it.
That being said, I fully expect Tel Var stone looting to be scaled back to a percentage, one campaign will have open access to Imperial City, and I expect that drop rates of VR15-16 equipment to be boosted. And I have no problem with these things.
(Taking PvP out of the sewers, that ain't happening, and it shouldn't.)1 -
Nebthet78✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Neither with a lot of other players. A few have already cancelled their subs so they don't have IC in their face. I have ensured players outside the forums have a link to this PTS forum and twitch streams so they can see IC for themselves and make their own decision.
Why is that so threatening?
...
And by referring it to a brinkmanship, you are basically stating that IC is in a dangerous place right now. Thanks for admitting that.
How many times now have PVE players experiences been changed and interfered with because of PVP QQing on imbalanced abilities in Cyrodiil? I heck of a lot. Guess what? There is never going to be a balance! Yet, changes are made and affect PVE players game, not just your PVP players.
The change I propose is just going to affect the PVE players in IC. NO ONE ELSE.
If you cannot make that small concession which affects a large group of players who might otherwise not purchase IC, then maybe I'm not the one being petty.
It's not threatening. What I dislike is coloring other people's opinions with false information.
If you'd slow down and read what I wrote, nowhere in there did I say I disagreed with your point. What I said is that your language is wrong. It is not impossible to get the gear, however, the most efficient way to get it is what you're not interested in. There -are- actually other things that are impossible to get except for playing one specific way, i.e. dungeon gear...anything BOP.
The crafting materials are not impossible to get, you just don't want to do what's necessary to gather them efficiently. There is a difference here. And I suspect you're running off and repeating the same points you've made here, basically that ZoS is preventing anyone but PvP'ers from getting the gear, which is just not true.
As to balancing for PvP...why would you balance for PvE? You're fighting a bunch of mobs that, if you're good, you should have no expectation of losing to.
What's the point of making it fair, after all the whining ZOS will just make them easier and easier, as they've repeatedly done since launch. (Mentioned this another thread already once today. Anyone remember how tough Doshia was? or the original Molag Bal fight?) This isn't speculation, this has already happened. PVP is the only mode of the game that balance matters.
The brinkmanship that I'm referring to is your repeated implications that this will ruin the game, drive off players, etc.
You don't know that will happen and neither do I.
PTS is an approximation of what IC -could- look like on live. There will be changes made, some have been announced already, others haven't. Calling out everything you disagree with as terrible and unfair and game-ruining is brinkmanship, and it's a good way to have your points not be heard.
Want to change things? Gather some data, present your points calmly and coherently and don't be upset when someone disagrees.
I would hope that most players would be mature enough to see that the ruleset in Imperial City is just that, the ruleset in Imperial City. Every subsequent update will most likely follow the same rulesets as any other PvE zone. Asking them to change the Imperial City ruleset to cater to PvE-only players who will be getting more and more and more updates in the future is just selfish and childish. You'll get yours, let those of us who want Imperial City have it.
That being said, I fully expect Tel Var stone looting to be scaled back to a percentage, one campaign will have open access to Imperial City, and I expect that drop rates of VR15-16 equipment to be boosted. And I have no problem with these things.
(Taking PvP out of the sewers, that ain't happening, and it shouldn't.)
I am sorry, but I feel I am not giving out misinformation, I am providing my point of view based on what I am seeing happening in the forums and on social media.
Yes, I have been seeing comments made on the forums about not purchasing it because of the PVE armor progression being behind the PVP wall. (And not from me and more than a handful of players).
I have seen the comments off these forums on social media about players unsubbing and not buying the IC DLC and their reasons why. ZOS needs to be aware of it.
I have gathered my data and showed it in several areas. I am not going to repeat it.
I am being calm. You might not think so, but I am just wordy.
Arguments I keep getting against it are because PVP zone. Don't like it don't buy it. Even Rich Lambert said that publicly a week ago. So he can eat his words.
I have seen a lot of misinformation about why PVE players are unhappy being spewed by PVP players and the argument keeps coming back to PVE (carebears) vs PVP(elite) and it has nothing to do with that what so ever, yet players are refusing to see beyond that point.
I am not asking them to change the rulesets to cater to PVE players. I am just asking them to change the dungeons so all mobs drop the leveled gear and not just the bosses. That effects no ruleset of Imperial City. It does not even impact the PVP of Imperial City what so ever as dungeons are not PVP areas.
The OP is asking them to put in a PVE safe zone of the sewers, which I do not agree with.Far too many characters to list any more.3 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I am not asking them to change the rulesets to cater to PVE players. I am just asking them to change the dungeons so all mobs drop the leveled gear and not just the bosses.
That is already the case in the new IC dungeons, apparently:HeroOfNone wrote: »in WGT I have gotten a lot of V15 gear from trash mobs and pulls, those lost hatchets for example.2 -
helediron✭✭✭✭✭
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Placing basic crafting mats to small niche isn't a good choice. They are not rewards, just stuff.HOWEVER, mats like the colossus ingots, glyphs/runestones, potion solvents etc, required to create new V16 CRAFTED gear of any kind should never ever ever have been placed behind a form of play or a zone without evening the field of being able to acquire them whether you pvp or pve.
Refusing to do something to get the mats isn't the same as the mats being withheld from you.
There are methods to get them, some low-risk, some high-risk.
ZOS didn't do anything to wrong you.
Sorry, but your argument just isn't valid.
The rewards are specifically given for certain activities, just like AP, just like Undaunted keys, just like monster helms, just like Nirncrux.
The difference here is that you can't stomach or aren't good enough for the specific activities which reward them. Harden up or get better, it's simple really. Nobody is stopping you from getting the mats but yourself.
On hiatus. PC,EU,AD - crafting completionist - @helediron 900+ cp, @helestor 1000+ cp, @helestar 800+ cp, @helester 700+ cp - Dragonborn Z Suomikilta, Harrods, Master Crafter. - Blog - Crafthouse: all stations, all munduses, all dummies, open to everyone0 -
Nebthet78✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I am not asking them to change the rulesets to cater to PVE players. I am just asking them to change the dungeons so all mobs drop the leveled gear and not just the bosses.
That is already the case in the new IC dungeons, apparently:HeroOfNone wrote: »in WGT I have gotten a lot of V15 gear from trash mobs and pulls, those lost hatchets for example.
Which is a good change, however, ALL other dungeons outside IC the scaled enemies don't drop V15/16 armor.HeroOfNone wrote: »ran through the start of VCOA, only v14 gear dropped off the v16 mobs.
Far too many characters to list any more.1 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I am not asking them to change the rulesets to cater to PVE players. I am just asking them to change the dungeons so all mobs drop the leveled gear and not just the bosses.
That is already the case in the new IC dungeons, apparently:HeroOfNone wrote: »in WGT I have gotten a lot of V15 gear from trash mobs and pulls, those lost hatchets for example.
Which is a good change, however, ALL other dungeons outside IC the scaled enemies don't drop V15/16 armor.
If i wanted to farm mats in a dungeon, one is all i need.2 -
Nebthet78✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I am not asking them to change the rulesets to cater to PVE players. I am just asking them to change the dungeons so all mobs drop the leveled gear and not just the bosses.
That is already the case in the new IC dungeons, apparently:HeroOfNone wrote: »in WGT I have gotten a lot of V15 gear from trash mobs and pulls, those lost hatchets for example.
Which is a good change, however, ALL other dungeons outside IC the scaled enemies don't drop V15/16 armor.
If i wanted to farm mats in a dungeon, one is all i need.
Yes, you personally may only need one.
BUT, PVE players who don't want anything to do with IC should not be forced to go into IC to be able to gain materials to craft new gear, especially since deconstructing V15/16 drops are the only way to gain mats outside of IC.
Far too many characters to list any more.1 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I am not asking them to change the rulesets to cater to PVE players. I am just asking them to change the dungeons so all mobs drop the leveled gear and not just the bosses.
That is already the case in the new IC dungeons, apparently:HeroOfNone wrote: »in WGT I have gotten a lot of V15 gear from trash mobs and pulls, those lost hatchets for example.
Which is a good change, however, ALL other dungeons outside IC the scaled enemies don't drop V15/16 armor.
If i wanted to farm mats in a dungeon, one is all i need.
Yes, you personally may only need one.
BUT, PVE players who don't want anything to do with IC should not be forced to go into IC to be able to gain materials to craft new gear, especially since deconstructing V15/16 drops are the only way to gain mats outside of IC.
So first the complaint is that the materials can only be gained by a PvE players (who refuse to PvP) through guild kiosks. That is not good enough.
Then it becames known that they drop from bosses, but that is still not good enough for you.
And when you discover that they also drop from trash, just not in all dungeons, that is still not good enough for you.
Do you know how many ways of acquiring a warlock ring a PvP player has if he refuses to PvE? Exactly one - the guild kiosk.
Do you know how many ways of acquiring an undaunted set a PvP player has if he refuses to PvE? Zero.2 -
helediron✭✭✭✭✭
✭I am not asking them to change the rulesets to cater to PVE players. I am just asking them to change the dungeons so all mobs drop the leveled gear and not just the bosses.
That is already the case in the new IC dungeons, apparently:HeroOfNone wrote: »in WGT I have gotten a lot of V15 gear from trash mobs and pulls, those lost hatchets for example.
Which is a good change, however, ALL other dungeons outside IC the scaled enemies don't drop V15/16 armor.
If i wanted to farm mats in a dungeon, one is all i need.
Yes, you personally may only need one.
BUT, PVE players who don't want anything to do with IC should not be forced to go into IC to be able to gain materials to craft new gear, especially since deconstructing V15/16 drops are the only way to gain mats outside of IC.
So first the complaint is that the materials can only be gained by a PvE players (who refuse to PvP) through guild kiosks. That is not good enough.
Then it becames known that they drop from bosses, but that is still not good enough for you.
And when you discover that they also drop from trash, just not in all dungeons, that is still not good enough for you.
Do you know how many ways of acquiring a warlock ring a PvP player has if he refuses to PvE? Exactly one - the guild kiosk.
Do you know how many ways of acquiring an undaunted set a PvP player has if he refuses to PvE? Zero.
This is correct, craft mat system is not yet good enough. That's just consequence when ZOS didn't make IC as pure PvP but put essential PvE into it. Now it gets trampled by million carebears including me who think PvP is just nuisance.
I'd love to sell my extra Valkyns just as i've been buying Morags.On hiatus. PC,EU,AD - crafting completionist - @helediron 900+ cp, @helestor 1000+ cp, @helestar 800+ cp, @helester 700+ cp - Dragonborn Z Suomikilta, Harrods, Master Crafter. - Blog - Crafthouse: all stations, all munduses, all dummies, open to everyone2 -
cjthibs✭✭✭✭✭
✭I am not asking them to change the rulesets to cater to PVE players. I am just asking them to change the dungeons so all mobs drop the leveled gear and not just the bosses.HeroOfNone wrote: »in WGT I have gotten a lot of V15 gear from trash mobs and pulls, those lost hatchets for example.Which is a good change, however, ALL other dungeons outside IC the scaled enemies don't drop V15/16 armor.Yes, you personally may only need one.
BUT, PVE players who don't want anything to do with IC should not be forced to go into IC to be able to gain materials to craft new gear, especially since deconstructing V15/16 drops are the only way to gain mats outside of IC.
This is exactly what I was talking about.
You're not being truthful here.
There is another way to get the mats, which you've even acknowledged. You're not being forced to enter the Imperial City.
You're using false information to, deceitfully, color the opinions of others.
You can't just assert something is true over and over when it isn't. You now have a couple ways of getting the mats and yet you still claim the only way is by entering Imperial City.Edited by cjthibs on August 7, 2015 1:02PM2 -
Farorin✭✭✭✭✭byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »
If ZOS hadn't put items in there that PVEers NEED (stones) there'd be no requirement for those of us who hate and detest PVP to even think about going there.Imperial City is a PVP dlc. You carebears have the entire rest of the game, and will get all future planned updates as well. Please don't complain about the only slice of map the devs are willing to give to the alliance war. Enjoy your world, and let us enjoy ours.
ZOS did this cyncially, to coerce non-PVPers to endure PVP in order to progress their PVE characters. And no, PVPers being 'forced' to PVE is nothing like the same.
PVErs don't "need" the stones, as all important things you can get with them you will be able to buy off other players, or have accessible equivalents. So you can get the things that the TV stones can give, without getting the TV stones, as far as I know.
How would you feel if PvP gear and skill lines (crafting) were stuck behind top PvE raids etc. and you couldn't get them by PvP'ing?
It is most often the case that PvP'ers refuse or cannot see the other side of the argument because PvP is all they care about.
Gankers and griefers all the more so.
I am not advocating what the OP wants - but people that hate PvP should not be forced to do it to progress their characters in crafting and gear except months down the line when the prices of PvP'er excess mats and gear drops enough for them to buy it second hand.
The whole of IC could have been exactly as it is, and Zenimax could have put in a decent gear deconstruction materials drop rate from the vet 15 & 16 gear, and they could have scaled all the existing dungeons.
PvP'ers would have had all the glories of IC and those PvE'ers who don't like PvP could have had other ways to progress.
But no, Zenimax have forced the issue and made some of the best PvE content in the game redundant to force everyone to buy the dlc.
To add to that, the level of grind is now insane. Just try getting a set of glass armour made if you don't understand how utterly farcical it is.
If Z keep going in this direction the game will lose a lot of PvE-centric players and the PvP'ers will be left with lower populations in PvP areas and the game will suffer due to lower revenues. It will also lose a lot of more casual players who won't want to play in a game designed for and completely dominated by no-lifers.
If the PvP-centric population had an ounce of sense, they would stop using the term 'carebear', stop crowing that 'they got theirs' and start understanding the game stands or falls based on it's popularity with EVERYONE.
It is the most stupid of short sighted points of view to believe that it's 'us against them' between PvP and PvE players.
We are all in this together, and it's Zenimax that are making this game so damn divisive.
There is NO NEED WHATSOEVER to force anyone to play in a way they don't enjoy - yet they are doing it.
It blows...
One last thing, before some muppet labels me a carebear... I like PvP, and I like PvE, and I am active in both. I also do well in both... I have lead trials, I have lead PvP raids. I have fun doing both.
I don't however think that MY fun should come at the expense of someone else's, and I get sick of the selfishness of those who do and post on these forums with glee about how they are going to feed on the tears of other players.
Those people are fools, and ultimately poisonous to the game.
I don't know if you realize this, but PVP players are forced to play PVE to level, to get gear, to craft, and to do almost all of the things that they need to make an effective PVP build. So your argument is kind of pointless.3 -
olemanwinter✭✭✭✭✭FWIW,
Without the threat of PvP the sewers get very boring quickly for me. Like the daily quests in Chorrel or Bruma.
With the PvP it's fresh and fun. On the other hand, topside IC pvp is madness - absolute unmitigated random brawling. It gets old for me real fast.0 -
Nebthet78✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I am not asking them to change the rulesets to cater to PVE players. I am just asking them to change the dungeons so all mobs drop the leveled gear and not just the bosses.HeroOfNone wrote: »in WGT I have gotten a lot of V15 gear from trash mobs and pulls, those lost hatchets for example.Which is a good change, however, ALL other dungeons outside IC the scaled enemies don't drop V15/16 armor.Yes, you personally may only need one.
BUT, PVE players who don't want anything to do with IC should not be forced to go into IC to be able to gain materials to craft new gear, especially since deconstructing V15/16 drops are the only way to gain mats outside of IC.
This is exactly what I was talking about.
You're not being truthful here.
There is another way to get the mats, which you've even acknowledged. You're not being forced to enter the Imperial City.
You're using false information to, deceitfully, color the opinions of others.
You can't just assert something is true over and over when it isn't. You now have a couple ways of getting the mats and yet you still claim the only way is by entering Imperial City.
Again, you picked and chose your quotes while leaving others out conveniently.
Trash mobs in IC ONLY drop v15/16 armor.
Scaled dungeons outside of IC do not not drop the scaled armor, even though the mobs are Vet 15/16.
So who is now trying to use incorrect information to make their point?
No I am not being deceptive to sway the opinions of others. I am very clearly showing how reliably/effectively obtaining mats have been locked BEHIND Imperial City. This has been tested and posted about by other players.HeroOfNone wrote: »ran through the start of VCOA, only v14 gear dropped off the v16 mobs. checking with WGT and IS play through they did instead drop v15+ items from trash mobs
WGT: White Gold Tower is in Imperial City.
Here is the link to HeroOfNone's quote so you can make sure I didn't lie and add more to it.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2117146/#Comment_2117146
Again, PVE players should not have to be forced into the Imperial City to gain a reliable or efficient amount of mats to upgrade their crafted gear, not when ZOS led PVE players to believe it could be done in ANY scaled dungeon in the game.
(Specialized Dropped gear like Martial Knowledge, Monster sets, Rings of Healer sets, etc do not count, they are not crafted).
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2045874#Comment_2045874ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »@ZOS_GinaBruno think you can find out if this is the case? With dungeons/pledges scaling to VR16, will mob dropped loot be able to be deconstructed for a chance at some of the new materials - in old dungeons scaled to VR16 and/or the new ones?
Yes. Dungeons will be scaled up to VR16, and the loot you receive from these dungeons will also drop up to VR16. Loot you receive from both old and new dungeons (the new ones being the White-Gold Tower and Imperial Prison) can be deconstructed for a chance at some of the new materials.
This led many PVE players to believe that they could just as easily get the drops to deconstruct from these dungeons, but it's not entirely true. Notice the wording. "UP TO".Will the chance to obtain crafting materials from VR15 and VR16 items going to be on par with current chance to obtain materials from LVL1-VR14 items?
Or there is a plan to make VR15 VR16 decon droprate significantly lower than rest of items for any reason?
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2025150/#Comment_2025150[/quote]ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Will the drops for these materials be comparable to the Nirnhoned materials or will they be much easier to obtain?
The new materials are nowhere near as rare or difficult to obtain as Nirnhoned Trait materials.
Though you don't obtain the new materials via crafting nodes, getting them through deconstruction is more comparable to other types of ingots. As you run around the Imperial City killing monsters, you'll get item drops like you would in a normal overland zone or dungeon. You can then deconstruct those for a chance to get the new materials.
Thread put together to "Kill rumours"
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/197847/lets-kill-the-rumor-mill-please-zos-answer-these-questionsEdited by Nebthet78 on August 7, 2015 4:42PMFar too many characters to list any more.1 -
gimpdrb14_ESO✭✭✭✭for all of you PvPers arguing about having to be forced to do PvE, tell me this at anytime that you are forced to do PvE at any point are you afraid of having your gear or mats taken away?2 -
Rook_Master✭✭✭✭✭gimpdrb14_ESO wrote: »for all of you PvPers arguing about having to be forced to do PvE, tell me this at anytime that you are forced to do PvE at any point are you afraid of having your gear or mats taken away?
No, but we aren't afraid of PvP either, like all the carebears in here calling for the touch-football equivalent of the Imperial City.1 -
cjthibs✭✭✭✭✭
✭The Imperial City dungeons do not require you to enter the Imperial City.
You can port to them from anywhere in the world.
Or are you suggesting that you should get what you want from this expansion without paying for it?
Is that the issue?
You -can- get mats from the new dungeons, which do not require you to PvP or whatever it is you don't want to do.
So...do that, otherwise you're not making sense.3 -
omfgitsbatman✭✭✭✭Imperial City is a PVP dlc. You carebears have the entire rest of the game, and will get all future planned updates as well. Please don't complain about the only slice of map the devs are willing to give to the alliance war. Enjoy your world, and let us enjoy ours.
Keep this in mind if ZoS makes level cap v18 in 6 months and brings out another trial that is insanely hard and you need to run it repeatedly to farm mats to make all crafted sets at max level.
Me personally, I enjoy PVP occasionally, but there are plenty of people who frankly don't want to PVP. Now, if you want to be any decent at PVE, you are going to need to PVP to get Telvar stones.
He's the healer Tamriel deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hurt his tank. Because he can heal them to full. Because he's not our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful rejuvinator. A Cloaked Healer.
@Omfgitsbatman PC/NA
Ticktick-Argonian Nightblade Healer/Magicka DPS
Tinytick- Imperial DK Tank
Wuches Y'Shaur- V16 High Elf Sorc Magicka DPS
Ticktator- Dunmer DK Magicka DPS
Tick Head- Dark Elf Magicka NB DPS
GM:
Mercs Of Sovngarde (EP/NA): AA (HM), HRC (HM), VSO (HM), VDSA, VMSA complete
Vet Maw 4/50 -
gimpdrb14_ESO✭✭✭✭ok well fine all good i dont care anymore im the OP btw. and you know what im just going to bite my tongue and wait for orsinium to come out.2
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Nebthet78✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The Imperial City dungeons do not require you to enter the Imperial City.
You can port to them from anywhere in the world.
Or are you suggesting that you should get what you want from this expansion without paying for it?
Is that the issue?
You -can- get mats from the new dungeons, which do not require you to PvP or whatever it is you don't want to do.
So...do that, otherwise you're not making sense.
#1: You cannot automatically port to the IC dungeons without having first discovering those dungeons, UNLESS you have someone in your group who has already discovered them.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2024726/#Comment_2024726ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Once you've discovered them, you can go to the dungeons any time (though keep in mind you do need to have the DLC in order to do so).
Additionally, you have to COMPLETE a quest in Cyrodiil first in order to get access to the Imperial City.
In order to get in and out of Imperial City you always have to go through Cyrodiil to do it. There is no bypass. No Wayshrine at your home base to port in and out of from a PVE zone.
http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2015/07/17/the-imperial-city-guide-the-basics
Which means for a good portion of the player base the have to deal with the PVP aspect in both Cyrodiil and Imperial City until they discover the two dungeons.
#1.5: PVE players should not have to be in IC to have to gain the new mats. That is placing said mats required for progression behind a paywall. (Not to be confused with being able to gain new special armor set drops)
When ZOS decided to raise the level cap to V16 and make new mats for crafting, but only release a PVP DLC where the main ability to gain mats for PVE players is in that zone, because they have skewed the drops in the current scaled dungeons, there is a problem.
PVP is a turn off for many players who don't like or want anything to do with that style of game play and ZOS is making it extremely inconvenient for PVE players to gain those mats unless they buy IC.
So no.. PVE players should not be expected to go into IC to be able to grind the two dungeons to get mats to deconstruct for gear. That is putting gear progression behind a pay wall, especially when current dungeons will scale to V16 levels, but ZOS has made it so the trash mobs don't drop V15/16 weapons.
Yes, mats should be made equally available to all players even if they do not purchase IC as the mats and v16 levels were added as part of the base game. Special armor drops no.. Mats to craft your own yes.
However, even for those who do choose to purchase IC, all trash mobs scaled should be required to drop from ALL scaled Dungeons no matter where they are located.
#2: You do realize the Imperial City is not just a purchased DLC? Half of it is added free to the base game right?
"Imperial City Base-Game Patch
Along with the Imperial City DLC game pack launch, everyone who owns The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited will receive the base-game patch at no cost. The base-game Imperial City patch includes hundreds of fixes and improvements to existing game systems and content including combat, classes and skill lines, the Alliance War, dungeons, and quests. Here are a few of the highlights:
15% decrease in the amount of XP it takes to gain a Veteran Rank
100% more XP for all public dungeons
50% more XP for all Veteran Rank quests
20% more XP in Craglorn
Veteran Rank increased to 16
Racial Passive improvements
Mundus Stone buff improvements
Glass racial motif style
Improvements to existing item sets
The ability to hide mount visual upgrades
New crafting skill line passives
New Undaunted pledges
Tons of combat and gameplay balance changes
Improved end-of-campaign Alliance War rewards
…and more!"
http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-gb/news/post/2015/07/15/imperial-city-launch-details
What's the point of creating V16 and making improvements and new crafting skill lines if the mats are not reliably/effectively available outside the purchase of IC DLC?
If you are going to release an update as part of the base game, then you can't hide required upgrade materials behind a pay wall without providing near equal opportunity for the base game players to gain those mats without having to purchase the DLC.
Now I am thinking you are disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing with out actually showing any of your own proof to back up your claims, which themselves seem to be based in a lot of misinformation.
So after this, I think I am just going to ignore you now.
I have made my points. I have shown my proof of information I am basing my arguments from. That is more than enough for me. I have had my say.
Have a good day.
Far too many characters to list any more.0 -
cjthibs✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Nebthet78
#1. This is not such a terrible thing. All you need to do is group with someone, which you have to do to run the dungeon anyhow.
I'm not aware of any quest to gain entrance to IC. I just walked in.
And no, you don't have to go through Cyrodiil to get to or out of the dungeons.
From your own link: (Imperial City Guide)
"If you leave the Imperial City by way of exiting the Imperial City Prison or White-Gold Tower dungeons, you will return to your alliance's capital city." (Port in, port out. Easy.)
#1.5 You don't...port in with a friend. Done. Sorted.
#2 Duh.
The stuff isn't available outside of the DLC because it's part of the DLC. Just like the dungeons.
This is how this works.
Whiners complain until game goes B2P/F2P/P2W or what have you, and then the company gets to charge for things. In fact, they MUST charge for things because their primary revenue stream has been cut off in order to appease the whiners.
You must pay for the IC DLC in order to get these items because ZoS employees need to eat too. This is their livliehood. People don't walk into your place of employment and demand things for free, do they?
They have excluded VR15/16 drops from normal dungeons to entice you to participate in the new dungeons/Imperial City districts. They will not add them to the other dungeons because for a lot of people that will eliminate the incentive to buy the DLC. (PvE-Only folks.)
This is also why the materials only appear in IC Dungeons. Not liking it will probably not change it.
I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing. I'm arguing because you're just wrong.1 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The Imperial City dungeons do not require you to enter the Imperial City.
You can port to them from anywhere in the world.
Or are you suggesting that you should get what you want from this expansion without paying for it?
Is that the issue?
You -can- get mats from the new dungeons, which do not require you to PvP or whatever it is you don't want to do.
So...do that, otherwise you're not making sense.
#1: You cannot automatically port to the IC dungeons without having first discovering those dungeons, UNLESS you have someone in your group who has already discovered them.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2024726/#Comment_2024726ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Once you've discovered them, you can go to the dungeons any time (though keep in mind you do need to have the DLC in order to do so).
And certainly every PvPer will try to grief you and camp the Prison entrance. That you find the White Gold Tower entrance, they could not even prevent in theory.Additionally, you have to COMPLETE a quest in Cyrodiil first in order to get access to the Imperial City.
In order to get in and out of Imperial City you always have to go through Cyrodiil to do it. There is no bypass. No Wayshrine at your home base to port in and out of from a PVE zone.
http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2015/07/17/the-imperial-city-guide-the-basics
Which means for a good portion of the player base the have to deal with the PVP aspect in both Cyrodiil and Imperial City until they discover the two dungeons.
So you are basically telling me you didn't even try the IC out on PTS but are criticizing it on the PTS forums? SUch valuable feedback, the Devs must surely consider your suggestions seriously...
DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
Nebthet78✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The Imperial City dungeons do not require you to enter the Imperial City.
You can port to them from anywhere in the world.
Or are you suggesting that you should get what you want from this expansion without paying for it?
Is that the issue?
You -can- get mats from the new dungeons, which do not require you to PvP or whatever it is you don't want to do.
So...do that, otherwise you're not making sense.
#1: You cannot automatically port to the IC dungeons without having first discovering those dungeons, UNLESS you have someone in your group who has already discovered them.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2024726/#Comment_2024726ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Once you've discovered them, you can go to the dungeons any time (though keep in mind you do need to have the DLC in order to do so).
And certainly every PvPer will try to grief you and camp the Prison entrance. That you find the White Gold Tower entrance, they could not even prevent in theory.Additionally, you have to COMPLETE a quest in Cyrodiil first in order to get access to the Imperial City.
In order to get in and out of Imperial City you always have to go through Cyrodiil to do it. There is no bypass. No Wayshrine at your home base to port in and out of from a PVE zone.
http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2015/07/17/the-imperial-city-guide-the-basics
Which means for a good portion of the player base the have to deal with the PVP aspect in both Cyrodiil and Imperial City until they discover the two dungeons.
So you are basically telling me you didn't even try the IC out on PTS but are criticizing it on the PTS forums? SUch valuable feedback, the Devs must surely consider your suggestions seriously...
Actually I have played on the PTS for a few days with a friend at his place using his account. He was already in the City.
A few things are going to be changing with the new patch for it, so I expect to hear lots of gripping from the PVP players regarding the changes.
I personally don't like IC. But I am not about to say PVPers cannot have their PVP in Imperial City since that part of it is for them.
But the upgrade to the base game affects everyone. Not just the PVP players and if ZOS are going to limit V15/16 loot drops in existing scaled PVE dungeons to bosses and mini bosses only to get PVE players to buy a PVP zone they don't want, then that I have an issue with.
Far too many characters to list any more.0 -
Rinmaethodain✭✭✭✭✭
✭The Imperial City dungeons do not require you to enter the Imperial City.
You can port to them from anywhere in the world.
Or are you suggesting that you should get what you want from this expansion without paying for it?
Is that the issue?
You -can- get mats from the new dungeons, which do not require you to PvP or whatever it is you don't want to do.
So...do that, otherwise you're not making sense.
#1: You cannot automatically port to the IC dungeons without having first discovering those dungeons, UNLESS you have someone in your group who has already discovered them.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2024726/#Comment_2024726ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Once you've discovered them, you can go to the dungeons any time (though keep in mind you do need to have the DLC in order to do so).
And certainly every PvPer will try to grief you and camp the Prison entrance. That you find the White Gold Tower entrance, they could not even prevent in theory.Additionally, you have to COMPLETE a quest in Cyrodiil first in order to get access to the Imperial City.
In order to get in and out of Imperial City you always have to go through Cyrodiil to do it. There is no bypass. No Wayshrine at your home base to port in and out of from a PVE zone.
http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2015/07/17/the-imperial-city-guide-the-basics
Which means for a good portion of the player base the have to deal with the PVP aspect in both Cyrodiil and Imperial City until they discover the two dungeons.
So you are basically telling me you didn't even try the IC out on PTS but are criticizing it on the PTS forums? SUch valuable feedback, the Devs must surely consider your suggestions seriously...
Actually I have played on the PTS for a few days with a friend at his place using his account. He was already in the City.
A few things are going to be changing with the new patch for it, so I expect to hear lots of gripping from the PVP players regarding the changes.
I personally don't like IC. But I am not about to say PVPers cannot have their PVP in Imperial City since that part of it is for them.
But the upgrade to the base game affects everyone. Not just the PVP players and if ZOS are going to limit V15/16 loot drops in existing scaled PVE dungeons to bosses and mini bosses only to get PVE players to buy a PVP zone they don't want, then that I have an issue with.
Exactly, what most of those topic about wanting more safe zones in IC is because ZOS tries to artifically induce an overextensive rarity on VR15/VR16 mats in any non-IC related area thus limiting access to those mats to only people who buy DLC.
The fact that "only bosses and minibosses" can drop VR15/VR16 gear in old dungeons means nothing. We are are talking about 3 pieces of gear per run, for 3 ingots/leathers/cloths.
The solution is equall access to VR15/VR16 gear for decon.
ANY mosnter should drop VR15/VR16 gear in old dungeons scaled to VR16/VR150 -
byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »
If ZOS hadn't put items in there that PVEers NEED (stones) there'd be no requirement for those of us who hate and detest PVP to even think about going there.Imperial City is a PVP dlc. You carebears have the entire rest of the game, and will get all future planned updates as well. Please don't complain about the only slice of map the devs are willing to give to the alliance war. Enjoy your world, and let us enjoy ours.
ZOS did this cyncially, to coerce non-PVPers to endure PVP in order to progress their PVE characters. And no, PVPers being 'forced' to PVE is nothing like the same.
PVErs don't "need" the stones, as all important things you can get with them you will be able to buy off other players, or have accessible equivalents. So you can get the things that the TV stones can give, without getting the TV stones, as far as I know.
How would you feel if PvP gear and skill lines (crafting) were stuck behind top PvE raids etc. and you couldn't get them by PvP'ing?
It is most often the case that PvP'ers refuse or cannot see the other side of the argument because PvP is all they care about.
Gankers and griefers all the more so.
I am not advocating what the OP wants - but people that hate PvP should not be forced to do it to progress their characters in crafting and gear except months down the line when the prices of PvP'er excess mats and gear drops enough for them to buy it second hand.
The whole of IC could have been exactly as it is, and Zenimax could have put in a decent gear deconstruction materials drop rate from the vet 15 & 16 gear, and they could have scaled all the existing dungeons.
PvP'ers would have had all the glories of IC and those PvE'ers who don't like PvP could have had other ways to progress.
But no, Zenimax have forced the issue and made some of the best PvE content in the game redundant to force everyone to buy the dlc.
To add to that, the level of grind is now insane. Just try getting a set of glass armour made if you don't understand how utterly farcical it is.
If Z keep going in this direction the game will lose a lot of PvE-centric players and the PvP'ers will be left with lower populations in PvP areas and the game will suffer due to lower revenues. It will also lose a lot of more casual players who won't want to play in a game designed for and completely dominated by no-lifers.
If the PvP-centric population had an ounce of sense, they would stop using the term 'carebear', stop crowing that 'they got theirs' and start understanding the game stands or falls based on it's popularity with EVERYONE.
It is the most stupid of short sighted points of view to believe that it's 'us against them' between PvP and PvE players.
We are all in this together, and it's Zenimax that are making this game so damn divisive.
There is NO NEED WHATSOEVER to force anyone to play in a way they don't enjoy - yet they are doing it.
It blows...
One last thing, before some muppet labels me a carebear... I like PvP, and I like PvE, and I am active in both. I also do well in both... I have lead trials, I have lead PvP raids. I have fun doing both.
I don't however think that MY fun should come at the expense of someone else's, and I get sick of the selfishness of those who do and post on these forums with glee about how they are going to feed on the tears of other players.
Those people are fools, and ultimately poisonous to the game.
What on earth are you on about, when monster helms were introduced( pve only loot) pvp oriented players had to either pve grind or go without. Pvp players are very used to playing content they would rather not for gear and would not expect everything available in the game to be accessible via pvp. People who hate pvp get over it. Everything in the last year and for the next year will be pve, pvp players will be "forced" to play to get the items involved. Time to ween yourselves off the diapers and grow up your not the center off the universe.3