keep pvp out of the sewers

Nebthet78 · August 2015

ToRelax wrote: »

Nebthet78 wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

KerinKor wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

Imperial City is a PVP dlc. You carebears have the entire rest of the game, and will get all future planned updates as well. Please don't complain about the only slice of map the devs are willing to give to the alliance war. Enjoy your world, and let us enjoy ours.

If ZOS hadn't put items in there that PVEers NEED (stones) there'd be no requirement for those of us who hate and detest PVP to even think about going there.

ZOS did this cyncially, to coerce non-PVPers to endure PVP in order to progress their PVE characters. And no, PVPers being 'forced' to PVE is nothing like the same.

Why do you NEED (emphasis yours) them? Have you held the same strong opinion about AP? Feeling that you should be entitled to earn it, and buy pvp gear with it, without having to participate in the Alliance War? Because the stones are the same, and I havent seen a single, compelling reason that they are NEEDed by pve'ers.

AP isn't needed to buy mats to upgrade crafted gear that would be used for PVE.

Tel Var stones are the only way to get a reasonable amount of stones to craft V16 gear since 100 TV stones = 1 mat, and it takes ~150mats to create 1 piece of V16 gear.

Deconstructing drops from the dungeons (you get a chance to get the drop from bosses and mini bosses only) MIGHT only give you 1 mat if you are lucky as the decon rate is soo low.

Therefore, Tel Var stones are indeed NEEDED by PVE players in order to progress their gear to max levels.

It would be be so bad if Tel Var stones dropped from all mobs in those dungeons and/or V15/16 armor dropped from all mobs in those dungeons. But they DON'T and this is why you are hearing a heck of a lot of complaining form the PVE community.

So if they would give AP some worth back and let us all the old rare crafting materials with it, you would feel you will now NEED AP? Ok.

I still won't need the AP, but I bet you there will be a heck of a lot of pvp only players who would be super happy about not having to PVE to get mats anymore with that option.

Kharsis26 · August 2015

PVE IC Campaign....As an addition to current PVP Campaigns, DOES NOT replace any current PVP IC campaign

No PVP, awards experience, can do quests and receive normal loot.

NO TEL VAR STONES though. Must do the normal PVP IC Campaigns for Tel var stones if you want them.

Less risk, less reward.

Done and done

Anzriel · August 2015

Nifty2g wrote: »

This style of pvp is healthy for eso though

Best pvp, forum pvp.

Honestly I think it has gotten a bit silly at this point. I'm mostly a pver, with some occasional pvp, it's pretty obvious this is a pvp update, so let's just leave it at that eh? I think it's pretty obvious that pvp updates will be few and far between, so let them have their day.

ToRelax · August 2015

Nebthet78 wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Nebthet78 wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

KerinKor wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

Imperial City is a PVP dlc. You carebears have the entire rest of the game, and will get all future planned updates as well. Please don't complain about the only slice of map the devs are willing to give to the alliance war. Enjoy your world, and let us enjoy ours.

If ZOS hadn't put items in there that PVEers NEED (stones) there'd be no requirement for those of us who hate and detest PVP to even think about going there.

ZOS did this cyncially, to coerce non-PVPers to endure PVP in order to progress their PVE characters. And no, PVPers being 'forced' to PVE is nothing like the same.

Why do you NEED (emphasis yours) them? Have you held the same strong opinion about AP? Feeling that you should be entitled to earn it, and buy pvp gear with it, without having to participate in the Alliance War? Because the stones are the same, and I havent seen a single, compelling reason that they are NEEDed by pve'ers.

AP isn't needed to buy mats to upgrade crafted gear that would be used for PVE.

Tel Var stones are the only way to get a reasonable amount of stones to craft V16 gear since 100 TV stones = 1 mat, and it takes ~150mats to create 1 piece of V16 gear.

Deconstructing drops from the dungeons (you get a chance to get the drop from bosses and mini bosses only) MIGHT only give you 1 mat if you are lucky as the decon rate is soo low.

Therefore, Tel Var stones are indeed NEEDED by PVE players in order to progress their gear to max levels.

It would be be so bad if Tel Var stones dropped from all mobs in those dungeons and/or V15/16 armor dropped from all mobs in those dungeons. But they DON'T and this is why you are hearing a heck of a lot of complaining form the PVE community.

So if they would give AP some worth back and let us all the old rare crafting materials with it, you would feel you will now NEED AP? Ok.

I still won't need the AP, but I bet you there will be a heck of a lot of pvp only players who would be super happy about not having to PVE to get mats anymore with that option.

Then what is your problem with that it is easier to gain Tel Var stones in a PvP flagged area?
Currently, it would be very easy for PvPers to get their materials if they could buy them with AP, like 15k-20k AP for a yellow one. Now I assume it will be harder to get the materials needed for crafting V16 in 2.1 without playing in the Imperial City (except the PvE dungeons) than it currently is to farm the upgrade materials.
But it would also be harder for people doing the PvP/PvE mix in the IC than it would be to simply buy the materials for AP now.

Nebthet78 · August 2015

ToRelax wrote: »

Then what is your problem with that it is easier to gain Tel Var stones in a PvP flagged area?
Currently, it would be very easy for PvPers to get their materials if they could buy them with AP, like 15k-20k AP for a yellow one. Now I assume it will be harder to get the materials needed for crafting V16 in 2.1 without playing in the Imperial City (except the PvE dungeons) than it currently is to farm the upgrade materials.
But it would also be harder for people doing the PvP/PvE mix in the IC than it would be to simply buy the materials for AP now.

The Tel Var stone system is the easiest way to gain the new mats. That's the issue and here is why.

IC is highly unbalanced in how it allows ALL players to gain the new mats within their preferred play style.

As it stands right now the PVP flagged area is the ONLY place to get a reliable amount of TV stones for the time spent, which can then be used to purchase mats from the vendor.

Other PVP players on here have stated over and over, that if you don't like the pvp, then go to the dungeons to farm drops for the mats.

Most players, don't mind having to go to a dungeon to farm out drops to decon for mats which ends up taking more effort than the Tel Var stone system.

But, there is a problem with that, that every one making that statement either doesn't know or is NOT LISTENING TOO.

The dungeons right now, even the ones that are scaled to v15/16 only give a small CHANCE to drop V15/16 armor/weapons on the bosses and mini-bosses ONLY.

That's right, so for one dungeon run, a player MIGHT get 5 - v15/16 drops. Which then need to be deconstructed for a very small chance at getting 1 colossus ingot.

The mobs in these dungeons, despite being leveled up to v15/16 still only give V14 drops.

Which means, PVE players have to spend 100 times as long farming these dungeons over and over and over again to get the same amount of materials available to an average pvp player via the Tel Var stone system, or they are being forced into a PVP play they do not want nor like.

The whole AP thing is a non-argument and only distracts from the main issue with IC.

What most player are complaining about is not so much the fact that IC is a PVP zone, we get that and yes you guys deserve to have a new zone, no issues with that at all, nor with having to actually go there to be able to gain the mats. Plus most don't care about the new armor as a lot of players think it's crap.

The issue is gaining the materials for ALL V15/16 crafted armor and weapon advancement as the Tel Var stones are the main and most reliable way of gaining those materials.

Example based on what I have seen of Tel Var numbers on the forums so far:
- An average PVP player in 1hr of play will gain about 1000 Tel Var stones. These can be sold to vendor to gain 10 colossus ingots at a cost of 100 stones each.
- For that same amount of time and effort spent, a group of players doing say both dungeons, may only receive 10 pieces of dropped weapons and armor for deconstruction. After deconstruction, they may only receive 3 colossus ingots.

Now you could argue the risk vs reward for the pvp part. However, I find most often pvp has much less risk than a group dungeon due to not being in an instance and most pvpers play in large groups where there is much less risk.

ZOS could solve all this arguing immediately by just changing it so that ALL scaled mobs and bosses in the dungeons drop V15/16 armor. (Which when the dungeons were announced, players were lead to believe would be happening and it wasn't).

That way, PVE players and those who are not into the gankfest that is IC PVP can then go to these dungeons and farm this equipment in relative peace. They can then take their loot and deconstruct it and get some mats and go back and forth until they have the obscene amount required to make V16 gear.

This allows PVP to have their Tel Var system and every one else can do the dungeon grind. It would equal about the same amount of effort for both and about the same amount of mats received for the average/casual player.

This is why you are getting threads like this from the OP asking to keep PVP out of the sewers, so that there is a reliable place to get stones to get mats. But if ZOS would fix it so that the mobs in ALL dungeons scaled gave the V15/16 armor drops, then there would be no feasable argument as to why there should be PVE only areas of IC as Tel Var stones would no longer be the only reliable way to gain the mats.

But ZOS has to change the way V15/16 loot drops in dungeons. Until that is done, more and more PVE players are going to be complaining about the system and if you think it is bad now, just wait until this hits console.

sparafucilsarwb17_ESO · August 2015

Nifty2g wrote: »

This style of pvp is healthy for eso though

It's not, it's a toxic system that are going to make players leave and be discouraged from doing pvp.

Lava_Croft · August 2015

At least all these tears keep me moist!

Maulkin · August 2015

Lava_Croft wrote: »

At least all these tears keep me moist!

Sentinel · August 2015

@Nebthet78

So far in the sewers I haven't seen this gankfest opposing the PvErs. In fact, the PvErs in the sewers are gaining the most tel var stones. Most of em run in pretty good sized groups (of 2-6), groups large enough to deter any solo ganker and make any small enemy groups question if they should attack.

The sewers are very PvE friendly. I myself ran through them with a buddy doing pretty much only PvE, and you know what? I've gained over 10,000 Tel var stones, spent most of 'em. Banked 9/10s of all stones I gained. The only ones I lost came from NPC deaths. If you're worried about the districts, yes thats where people tend to go for PvP, but the sewers, despite being a pvp public dungeon, they have the least players in 'em. I wouldnt worry about being ganked much down there, and even if you are, as long as you have buddies, you can either: 1. hunt the ganker (easy if in home territory), or 2. Get more people so you don't get ganked next time and continue farming.

Of course the sewers has some inherent risk, but it's rather small. It's not like you will struggle to gain Tel Var stones because of some ganker. PvE players definitely have things going their way, considering you can farm a large amount of tel var stones and gain even more by opening the bags and rewards sacks at the bank (where you can withdraw 10,000 to give a multiplier) to get even better gains. If the IC sewers is as bad as you are saying, perhaps you need to provide data as to what you have been doing (such as: Group size, location in IC, Tel var gained in one session, Tel Var lost in one session, amount of sessions, amount of tel var lost due to PvP death, amount lost due to PvE death, % of tel var that reaches the bank when gained).

Also, the PvPers in the IC are gaining far far fewer tel var stones than the PvErs. It was mentioned on the Q&A that the gains were coming around as almost null.

cjthibs · August 2015

Sentinel wrote: »

@Nebthet78

So far in the sewers I haven't seen this gankfest opposing the PvErs. In fact, the PvErs in the sewers are gaining the most tel var stones. Most of em run in pretty good sized groups (of 2-6), groups large enough to deter any solo ganker and make any small enemy groups question if they should attack.

The sewers are very PvE friendly. I myself ran through them with a buddy doing pretty much only PvE, and you know what? I've gained over 10,000 Tel var stones, spent most of 'em. Banked 9/10s of all stones I gained. The only ones I lost came from NPC deaths. If you're worried about the districts, yes thats where people tend to go for PvP, but the sewers, despite being a pvp public dungeon, they have the least players in 'em. I wouldnt worry about being ganked much down there, and even if you are, as long as you have buddies, you can either: 1. hunt the ganker (easy if in home territory), or 2. Get more people so you don't get ganked next time and continue farming.

Of course the sewers has some inherent risk, but it's rather small. It's not like you will struggle to gain Tel Var stones because of some ganker. PvE players definitely have things going their way, considering you can farm a large amount of tel var stones and gain even more by opening the bags and rewards sacks at the bank (where you can withdraw 10,000 to give a multiplier) to get even better gains. If the IC sewers is as bad as you are saying, perhaps you need to provide data as to what you have been doing (such as: Group size, location in IC, Tel var gained in one session, Tel Var lost in one session, amount of sessions, amount of tel var lost due to PvP death, amount lost due to PvE death, % of tel var that reaches the bank when gained).

Also, the PvPers in the IC are gaining far far fewer tel var stones than the PvErs. It was mentioned on the Q&A that the gains were coming around as almost null.

Just another case of people jumping to conclusions.
The time I've spent in IC has been mostly part of a duo, not a large group. It's actually fairly rare to find enemy players in the sewers from what I've seen. I was actually a bit disappointed in the level of risk in the sewers.

The folks who want to PvP exclusively are up in the districts, meaning if you want to grind out stones, don't go topside. Stay in the sewers and you'll be just fine.

SC0TY999 · August 2015

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

I love crawling around in the sewers, especially way deep down on the 3rd level. That rush you get when you see another player down there and have to decide to fight or flee. So awesome!

(No we don't have plans to make the sewers PVE only)

LOL I bet you ZOS staff play on your own private little server!

You don't play on the live or PTS servers, too laggy for you!

Antirob · August 2015

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

I love crawling around in the sewers, especially way deep down on the 3rd level. That rush you get when you see another player down there and have to decide to fight or flee. So awesome!

(No we don't have plans to make the sewers PVE only)

Theres a third subfloor? man you guys are sneaky.

kogadrake · August 2015

Ok to sum this all up, PvE players dont want to be forced to PvP or buy ridiculously priced mats from PvP players to get VR16 gear. The VR16 gear is ridiculous to get, and will take a lot of PvP farming...

ZOS simple solution, add some type of PvE specific method to obtain crafting materials at some reasonable rate (maybe attach crafting rewards to the undaunted gold chest if opened at VR15 or VR16)

The current meta for stam DPS in PvE is using sets only obtained in PvP and this will not change, it sucks if you dont PvP and have to pay for overpriced gear since there is more demand from PvE (and PvP players) for said gear then suply (since only from PvP) and this will not change. But add in the alternative starter level crafted gear having the same gate is bad. There needs to be a way for PvE players to get a reasonable number of crafting mats (this includes potion water, and potency runes) to make out crafted gear. I dont care how it is done, but it should not be buy from PvP players..

Sykis · August 2015

I find that people seem to get "forced" and "efficient" mixed up. Sometime the most efficient way to do something requires you to play outside your comfort zone. But nothing in this DLC is forced. Forced PVP would be the new PVE dungeons being locked and the only way to get the key in to kill 100 actual players in PVP. And by the way, this dungeon is the only way to level VR15-16. This in and of itself is still not "forced" as you still have the option to not do the content and or the game. It's all choice. The new content has brought some die hard PVE friends of mine to appreciate the PVP side of ESO, and we have been running a small group testing the stuff. So if this content helps bridge the gap a little between PVP and PVE, then it's a nice step and encourages different player to do things they normally would not do.

I have gained a good amount of TV stones in the sewers with less worry of getting hit and bank on average on 600-700 stones per hour ish. (Not timing myself) I get killed from time to time but not to often. Up in the main city, I get destroyed a lot but destroy others in kind. I have had much more TV stones in my bags Ina fraction of the time but lose them just as fast and turn in an average of 100-200 per time running around up in IC. The sewers give seem to give more stable amounts with less risk of PVP encounters but IC can give huge increase of TV stones but with the much higher chance to lose them.

My advice, if you feel "forced" into this content and the dungeons are not fast enough for you, stick to the sewers if you want the least PVP action. But you need to know the area and know how far away from your safe zone is. Bring a friend or two. If you want fast paced Action with with the potential of massive TV gains then IC is way better at this but the risk of your gains being taken is higher too. These are my experiences and opinions. I like the set up and I have spent most of my time in ESO PVEing.

Sharee · August 2015

kogadrake wrote: »

Ok to sum this all up, PvE players dont want to be forced to PvP or buy ridiculously priced mats from PvP players to get VR16 gear.

It won't be any worse than PvP players being forced to PvE or buy ridiculously priced set items from PvE players to get best PvP gear.

Nebthet78 · August 2015

cjthibs wrote: »

Sentinel wrote: »

@Nebthet78

So far in the sewers I haven't seen this gankfest opposing the PvErs. In fact, the PvErs in the sewers are gaining the most tel var stones. Most of em run in pretty good sized groups (of 2-6), groups large enough to deter any solo ganker and make any small enemy groups question if they should attack.

The sewers are very PvE friendly. I myself ran through them with a buddy doing pretty much only PvE, and you know what? I've gained over 10,000 Tel var stones, spent most of 'em. Banked 9/10s of all stones I gained. The only ones I lost came from NPC deaths. If you're worried about the districts, yes thats where people tend to go for PvP, but the sewers, despite being a pvp public dungeon, they have the least players in 'em. I wouldnt worry about being ganked much down there, and even if you are, as long as you have buddies, you can either: 1. hunt the ganker (easy if in home territory), or 2. Get more people so you don't get ganked next time and continue farming.

Of course the sewers has some inherent risk, but it's rather small. It's not like you will struggle to gain Tel Var stones because of some ganker. PvE players definitely have things going their way, considering you can farm a large amount of tel var stones and gain even more by opening the bags and rewards sacks at the bank (where you can withdraw 10,000 to give a multiplier) to get even better gains. If the IC sewers is as bad as you are saying, perhaps you need to provide data as to what you have been doing (such as: Group size, location in IC, Tel var gained in one session, Tel Var lost in one session, amount of sessions, amount of tel var lost due to PvP death, amount lost due to PvE death, % of tel var that reaches the bank when gained).

Also, the PvPers in the IC are gaining far far fewer tel var stones than the PvErs. It was mentioned on the Q&A that the gains were coming around as almost null.

Just another case of people jumping to conclusions.
The time I've spent in IC has been mostly part of a duo, not a large group. It's actually fairly rare to find enemy players in the sewers from what I've seen. I was actually a bit disappointed in the level of risk in the sewers.

The folks who want to PvP exclusively are up in the districts, meaning if you want to grind out stones, don't go topside. Stay in the sewers and you'll be just fine.

When is it jumping to conclusions when I have experienced it for myself on the PTS?

Also, I don't believe more than half of what they spew on ESO Live as it is always scewed to make them look good or things are blatantly lied about to try to calm people down.

Additionally, the comments towards me after my post clearly show, no one actually took the time to read what I posted but only picked up key words and ran. I don't care about the sewers and how pve friendly they are.

I only care about how, for other people who don't want to do any part of the pvp, even the sewers (how pve friendly they may be on PTS. There is always a difference when it goes Live), don't have a reliable way to gain the v15/16 mats that is relatively comparable to the Tel Var stone rewards BECAUSE of their restricted drops.

ZOS led the PVE players to believe that the dungeons would be a reliable way to gain v15/16 drops and they are not, especially in comparison to what can be had with the tel var stone system. I am not saying they should be on equal ground, but there has to be a compromise.

Buying the mats from Guild Vendors is not going to be helpful. It will be a great gold sink for players who already have over 2 million or so gold, but for the average casual player who is trying to work up to end game gear for their character and only has 200k in their bank if they are lucky, they are not going to be able to afford the mats. We all know quite well, that anything from a PVP zone put into the guild stores is super expensive. IE: Ravager's Rings = 110k each. Good ole supply and demand. Yet, the pve gear is not nearly that much as there are many more players gaining it so it is super cheaper. So buying this mats is not going to be an option for most players.

If they want more than just the PVPers to buy IC so they start actually making money on this game, then they need to make ALL SCALED MOBS in ALL DUNGEONS in this game drop V15/16 gear. They can hide it behind having to pay for IC to do it, but there has to be a compromise because as it stands now, there is no reason for more than 80% of this game's community to buy IC.

Sykis · August 2015

I only care about how, for other people who don't want to do any part of the pvp, even the sewers (how pve friendly they may be on PTS. There is always a difference when it goes Live), don't have a reliable way to gain the v15/16 mats that is relatively comparable to the Tel Var stone rewards BECAUSE of their restricted drops.

ZOS led the pve players to believe that the dungeons would be a reliable way to gain v15/16 drops and they are not, especially in comparison to what can be had with the tel var stone system. I am not saying they should be on equal ground, but there has to be a compromise.
[/quote]

You bring a great point accept for the "reliable" part. You can reliably get the items needed without going to IC PVP contested areas. This is just not as efficient as the way you would like to get the items. I understand the frustration of having to do content that I personally do not want to do to get items but this is the platform for which it was provided. I am glad that people in the ESO who do not want to participate in the new content at least have a reliable way to gain the materials without having to challenge the content that provides those materials. This is not the same for all the content in this game and many players have no options available to them to get items any other way then to do the content that provides them; undaunted set anyone? While some adjustments will be made in is sure, the most effective and efficient method for attaining the items you want from IC is to play the content provided. I believe most of us understood you just fine however, I can see where you might feel as though your message was not interpreted correctly. I for one wish the mosnsrer sets were bind on equip, not to availed having to do the challenge of retrieving them but to have the option of getting what I want without having to stock up on keys and run those dungeons 100 times. But this is the challenge that provides the set an I will continue to do those challenges until I get the set I want.

ToRelax · August 2015

Nebthet78 wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

Sentinel wrote: »

@Nebthet78

So far in the sewers I haven't seen this gankfest opposing the PvErs. In fact, the PvErs in the sewers are gaining the most tel var stones. Most of em run in pretty good sized groups (of 2-6), groups large enough to deter any solo ganker and make any small enemy groups question if they should attack.

The sewers are very PvE friendly. I myself ran through them with a buddy doing pretty much only PvE, and you know what? I've gained over 10,000 Tel var stones, spent most of 'em. Banked 9/10s of all stones I gained. The only ones I lost came from NPC deaths. If you're worried about the districts, yes thats where people tend to go for PvP, but the sewers, despite being a pvp public dungeon, they have the least players in 'em. I wouldnt worry about being ganked much down there, and even if you are, as long as you have buddies, you can either: 1. hunt the ganker (easy if in home territory), or 2. Get more people so you don't get ganked next time and continue farming.

Of course the sewers has some inherent risk, but it's rather small. It's not like you will struggle to gain Tel Var stones because of some ganker. PvE players definitely have things going their way, considering you can farm a large amount of tel var stones and gain even more by opening the bags and rewards sacks at the bank (where you can withdraw 10,000 to give a multiplier) to get even better gains. If the IC sewers is as bad as you are saying, perhaps you need to provide data as to what you have been doing (such as: Group size, location in IC, Tel var gained in one session, Tel Var lost in one session, amount of sessions, amount of tel var lost due to PvP death, amount lost due to PvE death, % of tel var that reaches the bank when gained).

Also, the PvPers in the IC are gaining far far fewer tel var stones than the PvErs. It was mentioned on the Q&A that the gains were coming around as almost null.

Just another case of people jumping to conclusions.
The time I've spent in IC has been mostly part of a duo, not a large group. It's actually fairly rare to find enemy players in the sewers from what I've seen. I was actually a bit disappointed in the level of risk in the sewers.

The folks who want to PvP exclusively are up in the districts, meaning if you want to grind out stones, don't go topside. Stay in the sewers and you'll be just fine.

When is it jumping to conclusions when I have experienced it for myself on the PTS?

Also, I don't believe more than half of what they spew on ESO Live as it is always scewed to make them look good or things are blatantly lied about to try to calm people down.

Additionally, the comments towards me after my post clearly show, no one actually took the time to read what I posted but only picked up key words and ran. I don't care about the sewers and how pve friendly they are.

I only care about how, for other people who don't want to do any part of the pvp, even the sewers (how pve friendly they may be on PTS. There is always a difference when it goes Live), don't have a reliable way to gain the v15/16 mats that is relatively comparable to the Tel Var stone rewards BECAUSE of their restricted drops.

ZOS led the PVE players to believe that the dungeons would be a reliable way to gain v15/16 drops and they are not, especially in comparison to what can be had with the tel var stone system. I am not saying they should be on equal ground, but there has to be a compromise.

Buying the mats from Guild Vendors is not going to be helpful. It will be a great gold sink for players who already have over 2 million or so gold, but for the average casual player who is trying to work up to end game gear for their character and only has 200k in their bank if they are lucky, they are not going to be able to afford the mats. We all know quite well, that anything from a PVP zone put into the guild stores is super expensive. IE: Ravager's Rings = 110k each. Good ole supply and demand. Yet, the pve gear is not nearly that much as there are many more players gaining it so it is super cheaper. So buying this mats is not going to be an option for most players.

If they want more than just the PVPers to buy IC so they start actually making money on this game, then they need to make ALL SCALED MOBS in ALL DUNGEONS in this game drop V15/16 gear. They can hide it behind having to pay for IC to do it, but there has to be a compromise because as it stands now, there is no reason for more than 80% of this game's community to buy IC.

You won't need to pay much for a set of epic v15 armor. Why should a casual PvE player need legendary v16 armor?
Besides that, 200k in the bank really is a lot compared to what most pure PvPers had before 1.6. And selling AP won't work anymore, now it's Tel Var stones, but those can just be farmed by PvE players.
To get their stones, both what they need for themselves and what they need to buy potions, PvP players have to go into the sewers as well. And trust me, I would love a "no PvE version" of the Imperial City, in that you earn stones by killing players...
Maybe I'll make a parody thread on that if the whining on this topic continues.

SeptimusDova · August 2015

Sharee wrote: »

kogadrake wrote: »

Ok to sum this all up, PvE players dont want to be forced to PvP or buy ridiculously priced mats from PvP players to get VR16 gear.

It won't be any worse than PvP players being forced to PvE or buy ridiculously priced set items from PvE players to get best PvP gear.

^ this

This is quite true

You want PVP stuff earn it. We did. How should a PVE player be given special access and preferential treatment? What grounds?

I'm in Cyrodiil every day getting my a$$ kicked and roflstomped. I don't quit, I don't whine. I don't give up.Failure is not an option. I have to bust my buns to do things in Cyrodiil albeit a keep, a resource, a damage sponge, endure the horse simulator. Just to get a chance to smell the delicious *** matter aroma of the IC Sewers. Why should it be handed to Carebears on a silver platter.

Many others may see things the way I do many will not. If it was up to me access would be granted when your main has been present everyday in a 30 day campaign from start to finish at least one hour a day before entry to IC was permitted.

Rich brother thank you. Keep it the way it is.

Haqikah · August 2015

From testing on the PTS I can confirm that PvP in the sewers is quite rare; also as most mobs are grouped and tough it is far more efficient (and fun) to wander around in a tiny group slaying them (probably detering solo PvP-ers in the meanwhile).

Top-side I found a lot more PvP, in some area's big groups fighting one another. In other districts - which seemed very abandoned by players - the occasional stealth-killer/ganker.

Sooo, from my - perhaps premature - findings I think the sewers are largely PvE territory. Within 60 minutes I gained 250 stones to the bank and I think this can be easily a lot more when I start communicating with the group I am tagging along with.

AssaultLemming · August 2015

TheBull wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

I love crawling around in the sewers, especially way deep down on the 3rd level. That rush you get when you see another player down there and have to decide to fight or flee. So awesome!

(No we don't have plans to make the sewers PVE only)

You the man Rich.

Awesome, sewers are the most fun!

Nebthet78 · August 2015

ToRelax wrote: »

You won't need to pay much for a set of epic v15 armor. Why should a casual PvE player need legendary v16 armor?

Why do PVE players need V16 armor?

How about because most PVE players are not MIN/MAX players when it comes to their build. The difference in the armor they can create will allow a good number of these players to finally be able to participate in pledges and other end game aspects of ESO they currently are unable to do because how they chose to play their character currently does not allow them to do so.

These players should not be forced to change their character build to something they never intended for it, just to be able to do a PVE dungeon. They have every right to progress their character and equipment that any PVP player does.

This game is not only for the elite hard core gamers. It is for every one and every one deserves to be able to enjoy all aspects of this game, but when you create barriers to progression that most other players are unable to participate in because they are underpowered, not good at it, or don't want to deal with an aspect of the game that will cause them to rage quit, then you are going to get issues popping up like we are seeing on the PTS forums becoming about PVE vs PVP player options.

SeptimusDova wrote: »

You want PVP stuff earn it. We did. How should a PVE player be given special access and preferential treatment? What grounds?
.

Again, most PVE players DON'T WANT the crappy PVP gear. They want mats so they can create/upgrade their current crafted gear.

MATS which would need to be used for ALL players PVE and PVP alike, should not be placed behind a play wall, which is what is happening with IC.

If a PVE player wants a PVP set, yes, of course they should then be made to pvp to earn tel var stones or AP to be able to purchase it or get it from a Guild Trader.

BUT, materials for crafting of any kind should not be put behind that sort of play or pay wall and that is what is happening here.

Perhaps what they should do then is remove the ability to buy materials from the Tel Var vendors and make it even so if PVP players want those materials they have to do the dungeons to and live with the idiotic drop rates like the PVE players need to do. I mean, Cyrodiil currently doesn't allow you to buy materials with AP, so why should you be able to do it with Tel Var stones?

That way, every one is on level playing field when it comes to gaining materials.

cjthibs · August 2015

A 'play' wall?
As in having to play the game to earn something? ...really?

Nebthet78 · August 2015

cjthibs wrote: »

A 'play' wall?
As in having to play the game to earn something? ...really?

As in having to play a specified style of play in order to earn something.

Alucardo · August 2015

I spend most of my time in PvE, but I'd find it quite thrilling to run into an actual person trying to kill me. If they wait in the shadows for me to get aggro on a mob I'd be quite furious, but other than that, I think a hybrid update is a great idea. It's a great way to ease pve'rs into pvp if they want to give it a try.

ToRelax · August 2015

Nebthet78 wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

You won't need to pay much for a set of epic v15 armor. Why should a casual PvE player need legendary v16 armor?

Why do PVE players need V16 armor?

How about because most PVE players are not MIN/MAX players when it comes to their build. The difference in the armor they can create will allow a good number of these players to finally be able to participate in pledges and other end game aspects of ESO they currently are unable to do because how they chose to play their character currently does not allow them to do so.

These players should not be forced to change their character build to something they never intended for it, just to be able to do a PVE dungeon. They have every right to progress their character and equipment that any PVP player does.

This game is not only for the elite hard core gamers. It is for every one and every one deserves to be able to enjoy all aspects of this game, but when you create barriers to progression that most other players are unable to participate in because they are underpowered, not good at it, or don't want to deal with an aspect of the game that will cause them to rage quit, then you are going to get issues popping up like we are seeing on the PTS forums becoming about PVE vs PVP player options.

They need that marginal increase to their stats because they are NOT min/maxing?
As if having that would change anything for them. If some raid leader does not take casual PvEers in, that has nothing to do with his armor being 2% weaker than that of the next guy.

cjthibs · August 2015

Nebthet78 wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

A 'play' wall?
As in having to play the game to earn something? ...really?

As in having to play a specified style of play in order to earn something.

You mean like having to grind Vet Dungeons to get monster helms?

Nebthet78 · August 2015

cjthibs wrote: »

Nebthet78 wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

A 'play' wall?
As in having to play the game to earn something? ...really?

As in having to play a specified style of play in order to earn something.

You mean like having to grind Vet Dungeons to get monster helms?

Monster helms are a special drop and are not required to CRAFT gear of all levels and types through out the entire game.

Monster sets, PVP specific dropped gear like Ravager's, and PVE specific dropped gear like Dreugh King Slayer should all have a specialized way to attain them. That's the reason for having DSA and Trials and they have to have something special in regards to that. Those drops are not "required" for gear progression, they just give you different bonus options but base states are mainly the same.

HOWEVER, mats like the colossus ingots, glyphs/runestones, potion solvents etc, required to create new V16 CRAFTED gear of any kind should never ever ever have been placed behind a form of play or a zone without evening the field of being able to acquire them whether you pvp or pve.

That's my point stating their (the MATERIALS) acquisition is behind a play wall.

ZOS needs to balance it so that the scaled dungeon mobs in the V16 dungeons also drop v16 white armor so it can be deconstructed to gain mats. That or they should remove the ability to purchase mats with tel var stones.

cjthibs · August 2015

Nebthet78 wrote: »

HOWEVER, mats like the colossus ingots, glyphs/runestones, potion solvents etc, required to create new V16 CRAFTED gear of any kind should never ever ever have been placed behind a form of play or a zone without evening the field of being able to acquire them whether you pvp or pve.

Refusing to do something to get the mats isn't the same as the mats being withheld from you.
There are methods to get them, some low-risk, some high-risk.
ZOS didn't do anything to wrong you.

Sorry, but your argument just isn't valid.
The rewards are specifically given for certain activities, just like AP, just like Undaunted keys, just like monster helms, just like Nirncrux.

The difference here is that you can't stomach or aren't good enough for the specific activities which reward them. Harden up or get better, it's simple really. Nobody is stopping you from getting the mats but yourself.

Nebthet78 · August 2015

cjthibs wrote: »

Nebthet78 wrote: »

HOWEVER, mats like the colossus ingots, glyphs/runestones, potion solvents etc, required to create new V16 CRAFTED gear of any kind should never ever ever have been placed behind a form of play or a zone without evening the field of being able to acquire them whether you pvp or pve.

Refusing to do something to get the mats isn't the same as the mats being withheld from you.
There are methods to get them, some low-risk, some high-risk.
ZOS didn't do anything to wrong you.

Sorry, but your argument just isn't valid.
The rewards are specifically given for certain activities, just like AP, just like Undaunted keys, just like monster helms, just like Nirncrux.

The difference here is that you can't stomach or aren't good enough for the specific activities which reward them. Harden up or get better, it's simple really. Nobody is stopping you from getting the mats but yourself.

I don't mind going to the dungeons to grind.. but the activity has to be on par with the other method of acquiring the mats.

I have been in dungeons with a pug group and it took 30 tries to take a boss down. That is the same risk vs reward to me as being killed by a PVP player.

I am still dying and still dying a lot.

So I am sorry.. I have just as much right and weight to my argument. You might not agree with it, but it doesn't mean I won't fight for a little change to even things out so many more people are satisfied.

It's just simpler not to buy it and inform others not to buy it either and to make sure people really know what this DLC is going to be like BEFORE they purchase it so they can make an informed decision.