So, You have no reason to buy Imperial City if you dont like PVP. Period.

FireCowCommando

I really dont understand why you are so convinced you are correct james. Every response you have given is just saying the same thing over and over, "You are stupid for disagreeing with me, the sky is falling, the world is ending, oh, but at least i was right!"

And yes, i know im going to get a reply from you along those lines. As with many others in this thread i absolutely disagree with your assessment.

Arato

MaximusDargus wrote: »

But why would PVPers bother with doing PVE if all they want is to kill players?
If PVPers will decide to start doing PVE then it seems that ZOS_RichLambert is simply contradicting himself stating that "IC is meant for PVP players"

It all boils down to ZOS designing around the audience they WANT to have in the game, rather than the audiences they currently have.

They have the delusion that there's a player base they can cater to that enjoys PVE'ing in a PVP zone specifically, and that's what IC really is, 80% PVE, but in a open world PVP zone. It doesn't appeal to pure PVP'ers, it doesn't appeal to pure PVE'ers.

Ryuho

Omg it seams entire IC DLC will be one big gankfest for NBs (especially perma cloaking magicka NBs).. Good job ZOS..

strikeback1247

Well, I think we should all just wait and try IC on the PTS. Things will probably change if there are too many negative comments about the gameplay. All the PvE players should just try it and see what it's like, they might even like it :P

asteldian

People really need to stop making such a fuss. The stones are easily available, they are easily deposited safely so all your hard work will rarely be ruined.
Not to mention, the whole premise is simple - lock the other factions out of IC, collect stones safely inside. That is why access is important.
Why do people find it so hard to understand the extra risk is a thrill to people? It is bad enough that death in MMOs are irrelevant these days, while modern gamers may refuse to accept things like corpse runs and xp loss from dying, it is nice that at least one zone in the game will make death matter.

Enodoc

Would you guys not buy the DLC for the two new PvE dungeons (four if you count the veteran versions)? That's my intention, at least. While I will also be having a look around the city itself (and will most likely therefore be the gankable passer-by that Lava_Croft is looking for), it's the dungeons that I'm really interested in.

BuggeX

Wath happen if i have eso+, Play ic, get the new motify, eso experier and i dont renew it. Will i still have Access to craft the motify?

Tonnopesce

Enodoc wrote: »

Would you guys not buy the DLC for the two new PvE dungeons (four if you count the veteran versions)? That's my intention, at least. While I will also be having a look around the city itself (and will most likely therefore be the gankable passer-by that Lava_Croft is looking for), it's the dungeons that I'm really interested in.

Carebear killer!

Good point imho but many want to do both, unfortunatly zos has not considered the option of selling a "mini " dlc with only the dungeons it will be a great idea.

Enodoc

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Would you guys not buy the DLC for the two new PvE dungeons (four if you count the veteran versions)? That's my intention, at least. While I will also be having a look around the city itself (and will most likely therefore be the gankable passer-by that Lava_Croft is looking for), it's the dungeons that I'm really interested in.

Carebear killer!

Good point imho but many want to do both, unfortunatly zos has not considered the option of selling a "mini " dlc with only the dungeons it will be a great idea.

That would be an interesting idea actually...
And why are you accusing me of being a carebear killer? I said I was the one who would be killed!

Annra

Enodoc wrote: »

Would you guys not buy the DLC for the two new PvE dungeons (four if you count the veteran versions)? That's my intention, at least.

No, I don't like Group-/Raid-Dungeons. In ESO I do mostly questing and PvP. But getting ganked and looted is not an option for me.
I think I have a better idea.
IC is bound to Cyrodiil and therefore to the particular campaign. Right?
So why not make different campaigns with and without looting players? We will see which campaign gains more popularity in the end.

Tonnopesce

Enodoc wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Would you guys not buy the DLC for the two new PvE dungeons (four if you count the veteran versions)? That's my intention, at least. While I will also be having a look around the city itself (and will most likely therefore be the gankable passer-by that Lava_Croft is looking for), it's the dungeons that I'm really interested in.

Carebear killer!

Good point imho but many want to do both, unfortunatly zos has not considered the option of selling a "mini " dlc with only the dungeons it will be a great idea.

That would be an interesting idea actually...
And why are you accusing me of being a carebear killer? I said I was the one who would be killed!

Bad english....
Wored in my mind... Quite well

Most_Awesome

Why are people more worried about gankers, you should be thinking about the Emperor spawn camping and stopping you from even leaving your safe zone

Tandor

It seems difficult to me to sustain the argument that this DLC is for PvPers only and that PvEers should not buy it when much of the content relates to PvE quests and storyline including two PvE dungeons. The fact that much of it takes place in PvP zones simply increases the confusion (not to mention the tension) by giving the PvPers the additional content they want and deserve while effectively gating the additional PvE content behind it, which seems crazy to me.

Given that PvP and PvE never mix well together it would make more sense to have the major part of this DLC structured to cater for the PvPers but with the PvE more readily accessible to the PvEers (as well as the PvPers), with the result that ZOS would maximise their revenue by making the DLC attractive to everyone.

I entirely get that this DLC is aimed at PvPers, and I wholeheartedly welcome that. I don't get that the DLC includes a lot of PvE which isn't readily accessible to PvEers unless they PvP, and which is the only effective way of advancing character levels, gear and crafting beyond VR14. It doesn't seem very well thought through to me, both community-wise and commercially.

The Uninvited

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Robbmrp wrote: »

One other question I came across after I had already posted this one.

Will all crafting be able to be done for the new Vet Levels V15 & V16? The reason I ask is the new "token" system being put in place for the V16 PVP gear. I want to make sure that as a max crafter I will still be able to create my own gear at the highest level which soon will be V16.

Thank you!

Yes, you'll will be able to craft VR15 and VR16 items, but it will require the acquisition of new materials. These materials are not obtained through harvest nodes the way other crafting materials typically are. Instead, you must obtain them by deconstructing VR15 and VR16 drops and then using those materials to craft new items. Also, the new materials are tradeable, so you can buy and sell them with other players, and you can buy them with Tel Var Stones in the Imperial City.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

MCMancub wrote: »

Will the drops for these materials be comparable to the Nirnhoned materials or will they be much easier to obtain?

The new materials are nowhere near as rare or difficult to obtain as Nirnhoned Trait materials. Though you don't obtain the new materials via crafting nodes, getting them through deconstruction is more comparable to other types of ingots. As you run around the Imperial City killing monsters, you'll get item drops like you would in a normal overland zone or dungeon. You can then deconstruct those for a chance to get the new materials.

I assume these can't be looted. Also, I heard that veteran dungeons and trials are being scaled to V16. So there are still ways to get viable gear without going to Imperial City.

kevlarto_ESO

Play it on the pts get a feel for it, if it turns out as bad as it seems, pretty simple don't buy it, but I do have to question if this is for the pvp player base why did they bother with putting any pve into it in the first place, when they add pve content to the world they do not throw a little pvp on the side, just saying...

I pvp everyday, and have for years in many different mmo's and other types of games, I just gota bad feeling about this for the long haul, but until I get to see it in action might be that this gut feeling is just gas..:)

GaldorP

You get two new PvE group dungeons. And you might still give the IC districts and the sewers a chance. Try them. Maybe they won't be as horrible as you thought they would be, and maybe you'll even find some fun and excitement there as someone who normally hates PvP (who would hate PvP in general though? Most card games, board games, or sports are PvP, too)

ADarklore

marco.cuevas.ventob14_ESO wrote: »

I also think that ZOS is working on what is the most successful thing in ESO and that is the PVP hence the DLC

The REALITY is, PvE is the 'most successful thing in ESO'... but they are trying to salvage PvP with this DLC... but from the majority of the comments- pre-PTS- they seem to be failing in advance. Perhaps once it hits PTS there will be more positive input, we shall see. However, this is also probably why Orsinium is coming 'later'... because they KNOW who their core audience is, PvE players, and they seriously need to provide something to keep them involved in the game.

Further, if they want Orsinium to be successful, then they should consider- if they haven't already- making Orsinium accessible at Level 50 or VR1... because there are numerous players who do not want to grind through Cadwell's Silver and Gold. Especially considering that the original game did not even have Cadwell's Silver and Gold, it was added later to give PC PvE players a means of progressing with their original character. Thus, it makes sense to have Orsinium accessible at level 50 (post main quest) and as they've stated before, future content will scale to the player's level. Not sure how this would impact VR15-16 gear and mats, I just think making it only accessible at VR14 would be a mistake on their part and would make it extremely restrictive for a huge amount of players who don't want to grind to access a DLC they are expected to pay for.

RavenSkylord

GaldorP wrote: »

You get two new PvE group dungeons. And you might still give the IC districts and the sewers a chance. Try them. Maybe they won't be as horrible as you thought they would be, and maybe you'll even find some fun and excitement there as someone who normally hates PvP (who would hate PvP in general though? Most card games, board games, or sports are PvP, too)

I think for most it isn't so much the pvp, but rather the opportunists who seek one sided fights. I myself tried a f2p mmo years ago before f2p became popular. The name of the game eludes me now, but I spent half an hour setting up a character going through the tutorial level which was forced, spawned into the world ready to try it, only to be instantly killed by a player 20 levels higher, lost all my starter gear and money and had no way to continue. Started over with a new character, another 30 minutes, spawned into the world and killed by same person now 23 levels higher. Gave it one last try, another 30 minutes and killed by same person. That ended any desire to ever play pvp again.

Given your analogy, that is like playing Monopoly with another person having all the property and money, while you start with nothing. Or playing a football game by yourself against the New England Patriots who still cheat the game against you. A lot less fun

Cously

Arato wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

But why would PVPers bother with doing PVE if all they want is to kill players?
If PVPers will decide to start doing PVE then it seems that ZOS_RichLambert is simply contradicting himself stating that "IC is meant for PVP players"

It all boils down to ZOS designing around the audience they WANT to have in the game, rather than the audiences they currently have.

They have the delusion that there's a player base they can cater to that enjoys PVE'ing in a PVP zone specifically, and that's what IC really is, 80% PVE, but in a open world PVP zone. It doesn't appeal to pure PVP'ers, it doesn't appeal to pure PVE'ers.

You got spot on. I'm the kind of player who enjoys and have time for all aspects of the game. But the vast majority of friends, guildies and randoms pick only one segment of the game, for a myriad of reasons. That update benefits me but I'm not so sure about all others I mentioned though...I only know 3 players who enjoy 100% of the game.

DDuke

FireCowCommando wrote: »

I really dont understand why you are so convinced you are correct james. Every response you have given is just saying the same thing over and over, "You are stupid for disagreeing with me, the sky is falling, the world is ending, oh, but at least i was right!"

And yes, i know im going to get a reply from you along those lines. As with many others in this thread i absolutely disagree with your assessment.

He still hasn't realized he's not the center of the universe and his views do not reflect into the general populus.

Not just on this particular topic, but anything he posts on.

And yes, you're probably getting the exact "me right you wrong" type of response.

Septimus_Magna

Lava_Croft wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Is it so hard to just let PvP players enjoy the only piece of new content they will probably ever see?

So unless you can gank newbs and steal their stuff you cant enjoy IC? Is that what you are saying?

Yes, killing people and taking their stones is indeed a very important part of the Imperial City DLC. A lot of PvP players have been wanting an actual penalty to dying and this seems to provide just that.

Deal with it.

No I wont deal with it as many many other players will not. As you see by this thread even other pvp centered players hate this idea. I guarantee it will be changed or I guarantee you wont have anyone to gank and steal their stuff. The place will be deserted and you and your gank buddies will have to start killing each other.

I mean how sad is it you cannot enjoy yourself without abusing other people.

If you don't want to deal with, then don't play this DLC. It's been stated over and over that this is PvP content. I don't want to deal with braindead repetitve dungeons and ridiculous questlines, so I don't. I also don't go to the forums demanding more PvP in my PvE.

Deal with it.

Story driven quest lines is what elder scrolls is all about. If you want a hardcore pvp game go find one. Also I am going to mark this so I can come back and say "I told ya so" when they remove the whole looting of stones thing.

This is The Elder Scrolls Online and the PvP has been heavily featured in all the marketing material and ZOS has even stated it considers the PvP 'end-game'.

The fact that your personal views on what constitutes an Elder Scrolls game are different does not change anything about it. You can always go play Skyrim with its focus on 'story driven quest lines' that all involve going somewhere, pressing a button and killing 50 Draugr.

You can have pvp without looting other players.

But I don't want to, ZOS doesn't want to and it seems a lot of PvP players don't want to. The fact that PvE players want it to be this way is just not that important, since this content is not meant for them.

One day you will learn its not all about you.

That's the point: This content is all about me, the PvP player.

Deal with it.

Precisely^^
Its actually the first content update for PVP and all the PVEers are complaining that its not to their liking. PVEers already got content updates with Undaunted pledges, vet CoA, lower and upper Craglorn, 3 different trails and DSA.


This update is about PVP because its in Cyrodiil, if you dont like to PVP dont go there and buy your stuff from guild stores.
PVPers needed to do pledges to get the BoP monster sets, these sets can take a long time to get and I can tell you most PVPers dont like to do pledges at all. I think the PVEers should be grateful not everything from IC is BoP and they can get most items without having to buy the IC DLC or ever going there.

GaldorP

RavenSkylord wrote: »

Given your analogy, that is like playing Monopoly with another person having all the property and money, while you start with nothing. Or playing a football game by yourself against the New England Patriots who still cheat the game against you. A lot less fun

Hm, I'm trying to think of a card or board game now where you can steal your enemy's possessions. There must be hundreds of examples

The only one I can think of right now is the tabletop game Warhammer Fantasy where, in some edition, you could capture the banners of enemy units by defeating them, but the enemy could get their banners back and steal yours by defeating the units that carried them Bonus points for banners were awarded at the end of the game based on how many enemy banners each player was holding at that moment Ok, not a perfect analogy >< But I'm sure there are some card or board games where you can steal your enemy's possessions

Edit: Now I got a better example: The lava stage in the battle mode of the N64 game Diddy Kong Racing You had to deposit 3 eggs in your nest until they hatched. You could gain eggs from a common spawn pool at the center of the arena or you could steal them from the nest of another player (the ones that hadn't hatched yet). I remember that as being fun minigame

Oh, another example: In Super Mario Kart you could steal the coins from opponents that you hit with a green or a red turtle shell

cwewerka1_ESO

sparafucilsarwb17_ESO wrote: »

Then why even put pve quests and dungeons in pvp and why then raise the level to vr16? These devs should be fired.

Most PVPrs don't mind an PVE and do both. Lots of PVErs don't mind PVP. There are only a few on both sides that won't touch either.

Sledgemoto

GaldorP wrote: »

RavenSkylord wrote: »

Given your analogy, that is like playing Monopoly with another person having all the property and money, while you start with nothing. Or playing a football game by yourself against the New England Patriots who still cheat the game against you. A lot less fun

Hm, I'm trying to think of a card or board game now where you can steal your enemy's possessions. There must be hundreds of examples

The only one I can think of right now is the tabletop game Warhammer Fantasy where, in some edition, you could capture the banners of enemy units by defeating them, but the enemy could get their banners back and steal yours by defeating the units that carried them Bonus points for banners were awarded at the end of the game based on how many enemy banners each player was holding at that moment Ok, not a perfect analogy >< But I'm sure there are some card or board games where you can steal your enemy's possessions

Edit: Now I got a better example: The lava stage in the battle mode of the N64 game Diddy Kong Racing You had to deposit 3 eggs in your nest until they hatched. You could gain eggs from a common spawn pool at the center of the arena or you could steal them from the nest of another player (the ones that hadn't hatched yet). I remember that as being fun minigame

Oh, another example: In Super Mario Kart you could steal the coins from opponents that you hit with a green or a red turtle shell

Asherons Call (my fist MMO) also had player looting. If you were PK and died you would lose you most expensive items to other players. armor, weapons materials gone. I enjoyed it immensely it added a whole new dimension to the game.

RobDaCool

Since I'm a PVE player I guess I'll be saving $25 on $5 content then lol

RavenSkylord

GaldorP wrote: »

RavenSkylord wrote: »

Given your analogy, that is like playing Monopoly with another person having all the property and money, while you start with nothing. Or playing a football game by yourself against the New England Patriots who still cheat the game against you. A lot less fun

I can think I am a green or a red turtle

Please don't quote me out of context like you are making some clever point, and I won't do it to you. You misrepresent my entire point.

J2JMC

I love the false dichotomy of pve vs pvp player. I see it so often on hear I mistakenly use it myself. I'd venture most players like playing against npcs and against other players. When they want to pve they stick to ALL of Tamriel. When they want to pvp they go to cyrodil.

To the people asking "Why did ZOS put pve content into a pvp update", I retort with another question. Considering how content starved everyone claims to be, can you honestly say you wouldn't be complaining if IC content was solely designed around pvp? ZOS was generous, and quite frankly smart, in putting PVE content into the update as well.

Mojmir

this reminds me of champ spawns and power scrolls from UO

phairdon

Going to chuckle when a so called carebear enters Cyrodiil & owns a few pvp regulars (won't be me by the way).

As for pvp getting some love, great to see.

Tandor

J2JMC wrote: »

I love the false dichotomy of pve vs pvp player. I see it so often on hear I mistakenly use it myself. I'd venture most players like playing against npcs and against other players. When they want to pve they stick to ALL of Tamriel. When they want to pvp they go to cyrodil.

To the people asking "Why did ZOS put pve content into a pvp update", I retort with another question. Considering how content starved everyone claims to be, can you honestly say you wouldn't be complaining if IC content was solely designed around pvp? ZOS was generous, and quite frankly smart, in putting PVE content into the update as well.

Being smart would be releasing a PvP DLC with a small amount of PvE that was accessible without PvP, and then releasing a PvE DLC with a small amount of PvP that was accessible without PvE. As examples, the former could be some questing that could be undertaken with direct access to a safe zone, while the latter could be a duelling arena that was instantly accessible from wherever you were in the world without having to run through the DLC PvE quests to access it.

Those arrangements would be smart because they would mean that both sets of DLC would be immediately attractive to all players, instead of targetting each DLC at only half the playerbase. Revenue would be maximised, and that has to be smart commercially.