lordrichter wrote: »marcmyb14_ESO wrote: »
Imperial city takes it to a whole new level, by requiring PvE'ers to PvP (if your faction doesn't own keeps) to get to the city, and PvP'ers to do PvE dungeons that they would otherwise not be interested in.
The fact remains, if either a pure PvE'er or a pure PvP'er want their best in slot gear, they will be required to do something they aren't interested in.
It's bad, mmkay?
The BIG problem with Imperial City is that the Alliances that can get into Imperial City will be starved for manpower in the rest of Cyrodiil. I already hear people complaining that no one comes to defend or attack keeps because too many people are PVE. Imperial City will just make this worse, and on top if it, all of those people will be out of touch with the rest of Cyrodiil. When this goes live, we will have locked campaigns that are ghost towns for any Alliance that can access the City.
AssaultLemming wrote: »ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »So a question for either @ZOS_GinaBruno or @ZOS_BrianWheeler - does the paywall mean that ownership of specific keeps in Cyrodiil to gain access is no longer on the agenda?
On PTS we will be testing access the following access rules and deciding if certain campaigns have different Access rules or be universal across all Campaigns:
- Everyone has Access
- Access granted by owning your native 6 keeps
- Access granted by owning your native 6 keeps + 1 enemy keep
- Access granted by owning the majority of keeps
For clarification, "Access" means the doors in Cyrodiil around Lake Rumare (non slaughterfish side) that let you into the Sewers/City will let you click on them to go into the Sewers/City or not. These entrances will also be highlighted on your Cyrodiil map.
Can I suggest that you also test out:
Access granted by owning your primary 3 keeps
Access granted by owning your primary 3 keeps and one emp keep close to your faction
These seem like they would be the best soft options.
marcmyb14_ESO wrote: »I guess I just don't see it that way. I see it as PvP content where there is also a bit of PvE stuff to do, just like the rest of Cyrodiil.marcmyb14_ESO wrote: »Still missing the point.Just pay your guildies in gold to have them craft some VR16 IC gear for you and get them to mail it over. Problem solved.marcmyb14_ESO wrote: »Attorneyatlawl wrote: »Don't then. You can buy orsinium when it launches soon. We already had numerous pve additions and none to pvp. That's the great thing about the model here... if a dlc package doesn't offer what you like, you can keep playing without buying it.
I'm much more concerned as to the XP gap between mob grinding in pve versus what we get for pvp'ing. Will this be brought to better parity with the imperial city patch, @ZOS_BrianWheeler ?
Nice logic here. If you don't like it don't buy it. Sure, that works, and then when all of your friends/guildies are vr16 with all the best gear, etc and need people to the dungeons with, you'll just say "sorry, I don't have it." that'll totally work out. I can even foresee people getting kicked from guilds because of this.
Asking us to pay for PvE content that is gated behind PvP is just bad.
That's fine but that's not what it is. It is PvE content. An entire city with PvE quests, two PvE only group dungeons that drop gear tokens and other items/sets that people will want for their character regardless of whether or not they PvE or PvP.
I don't know how many other MMOs you've played but I've played many, and did endgame raiding in quite a few of them. Most of them have separate gear for PvP and PvE. In fact, the PvE sets are usually no good for PvP and vice versa due to differences in stats (such as a certain stat that is only useful in PvP). In those games, PvE dungeons are completely separate from PvP and drop nothing a PvP'er would want.
The only way to usually get PvP gear is to... guess what? PvP, and then use the currency from PvP to buy the gear, which is basically how the current system works, except that in ESO, PvP gear is best in slot for PvE'ers as well.
The problem with this system is that people are already forced to either PvP or pay lots of gold to buy PvP gear if they want their best in slot gear. This should never be the case. You should never have to PvP to get PvE gear or PvE to get PvP gear. That's just simply bad design.
Imperial city takes it to a whole new level, by requiring PvE'ers to PvP (if your faction doesn't own keeps) to get to the city, and PvP'ers to do PvE dungeons that they would otherwise not be interested in.
The fact remains, if either a pure PvE'er or a pure PvP'er want their best in slot gear, they will be required to do something they aren't interested in.
It's bad, mmkay?
marcmyb14_ESO wrote: »I guess I just don't see it that way. I see it as PvP content where there is also a bit of PvE stuff to do, just like the rest of Cyrodiil.marcmyb14_ESO wrote: »Still missing the point.Just pay your guildies in gold to have them craft some VR16 IC gear for you and get them to mail it over. Problem solved.marcmyb14_ESO wrote: »Attorneyatlawl wrote: »Don't then. You can buy orsinium when it launches soon. We already had numerous pve additions and none to pvp. That's the great thing about the model here... if a dlc package doesn't offer what you like, you can keep playing without buying it.
I'm much more concerned as to the XP gap between mob grinding in pve versus what we get for pvp'ing. Will this be brought to better parity with the imperial city patch, @ZOS_BrianWheeler ?
Nice logic here. If you don't like it don't buy it. Sure, that works, and then when all of your friends/guildies are vr16 with all the best gear, etc and need people to the dungeons with, you'll just say "sorry, I don't have it." that'll totally work out. I can even foresee people getting kicked from guilds because of this.
Asking us to pay for PvE content that is gated behind PvP is just bad.
That's fine but that's not what it is. It is PvE content. An entire city with PvE quests, two PvE only group dungeons that drop gear tokens and other items/sets that people will want for their character regardless of whether or not they PvE or PvP.
I don't know how many other MMOs you've played but I've played many, and did endgame raiding in quite a few of them. Most of them have separate gear for PvP and PvE. In fact, the PvE sets are usually no good for PvP and vice versa due to differences in stats (such as a certain stat that is only useful in PvP). In those games, PvE dungeons are completely separate from PvP and drop nothing a PvP'er would want.
The only way to usually get PvP gear is to... guess what? PvP, and then use the currency from PvP to buy the gear, which is basically how the current system works, except that in ESO, PvP gear is best in slot for PvE'ers as well.
The problem with this system is that people are already forced to either PvP or pay lots of gold to buy PvP gear if they want their best in slot gear. This should never be the case. You should never have to PvP to get PvE gear or PvE to get PvP gear. That's just simply bad design.
Imperial city takes it to a whole new level, by requiring PvE'ers to PvP (if your faction doesn't own keeps) to get to the city, and PvP'ers to do PvE dungeons that they would otherwise not be interested in.
The fact remains, if either a pure PvE'er or a pure PvP'er want their best in slot gear, they will be required to do something they aren't interested in.
It's bad, mmkay?
lordrichter wrote: »marcmyb14_ESO wrote: »
Imperial city takes it to a whole new level, by requiring PvE'ers to PvP (if your faction doesn't own keeps) to get to the city, and PvP'ers to do PvE dungeons that they would otherwise not be interested in.
The fact remains, if either a pure PvE'er or a pure PvP'er want their best in slot gear, they will be required to do something they aren't interested in.
It's bad, mmkay?
Gamers that only want to PVE and gamers that only want to PVP will be the ones that will consider this bad. The gamers that go back and forth between PVP and PVE, which could be a larger group than either of the other two (I dunno), will be more likely to be fine with Imperial City since they can do both in one place.
The BIG problem with Imperial City is that the Alliances that can get into Imperial City will be starved for manpower in the rest of Cyrodiil. I already hear people complaining that no one comes to defend or attack keeps because too many people are PVE. Imperial City will just make this worse, and on top if it, all of those people will be out of touch with the rest of Cyrodiil. When this goes live, we will have locked campaigns that are ghost towns for any Alliance that can access the City.
Spectral_Lord wrote: »Correct me if I'm wrong here, but aren't the other two areas - Craglorn and City of Ash - solely PvE oriented?marcmyb14_ESO wrote: »Just pay your guildies in gold to have them craft some VR16 IC gear for you and get them to mail it over. Problem solved.marcmyb14_ESO wrote: »Attorneyatlawl wrote: »Don't then. You can buy orsinium when it launches soon. We already had numerous pve additions and none to pvp. That's the great thing about the model here... if a dlc package doesn't offer what you like, you can keep playing without buying it.
I'm much more concerned as to the XP gap between mob grinding in pve versus what we get for pvp'ing. Will this be brought to better parity with the imperial city patch, @ZOS_BrianWheeler ?
Nice logic here. If you don't like it don't buy it. Sure, that works, and then when all of your friends/guildies are vr16 with all the best gear, etc and need people to the dungeons with, you'll just say "sorry, I don't have it." that'll totally work out. I can even foresee people getting kicked from guilds because of this.
Still missing the point.
Asking us to pay for PvE content that is gated behind PvP is just bad.
Craglorn is a group PvE area, and the only ones you tend to see doing anything there is those doing the crafting writs. Group zones like Craglorn tend to have a short shelf life.
Solo PvE players have had zero content updates. Just a thought ....
Craglorn is a group PvE area, and the only ones you tend to see doing anything there is those doing the crafting writs. Group zones like Craglorn tend to have a short shelf life.
I must have a different version of Craglorn then, because I joined out in doing three dungeons and two quests as late as the day before yesterday
Solo PvE players have had zero content updates. Just a thought ....
This is Elder Scrolls Online, not Elder Scrolls VI
So if you're PvE orientated your just gonna be a source of stones for the PvP'ers ....
marcmyb14_ESO wrote: »I guess I just don't see it that way. I see it as PvP content where there is also a bit of PvE stuff to do, just like the rest of Cyrodiil.marcmyb14_ESO wrote: »Still missing the point.Just pay your guildies in gold to have them craft some VR16 IC gear for you and get them to mail it over. Problem solved.marcmyb14_ESO wrote: »Attorneyatlawl wrote: »Don't then. You can buy orsinium when it launches soon. We already had numerous pve additions and none to pvp. That's the great thing about the model here... if a dlc package doesn't offer what you like, you can keep playing without buying it.
I'm much more concerned as to the XP gap between mob grinding in pve versus what we get for pvp'ing. Will this be brought to better parity with the imperial city patch, @ZOS_BrianWheeler ?
Nice logic here. If you don't like it don't buy it. Sure, that works, and then when all of your friends/guildies are vr16 with all the best gear, etc and need people to the dungeons with, you'll just say "sorry, I don't have it." that'll totally work out. I can even foresee people getting kicked from guilds because of this.
Asking us to pay for PvE content that is gated behind PvP is just bad.
That's fine but that's not what it is. It is PvE content. An entire city with PvE quests, two PvE only group dungeons that drop gear tokens and other items/sets that people will want for their character regardless of whether or not they PvE or PvP.
I don't know how many other MMOs you've played but I've played many, and did endgame raiding in quite a few of them. Most of them have separate gear for PvP and PvE. In fact, the PvE sets are usually no good for PvP and vice versa due to differences in stats (such as a certain stat that is only useful in PvP). In those games, PvE dungeons are completely separate from PvP and drop nothing a PvP'er would want.
The only way to usually get PvP gear is to... guess what? PvP, and then use the currency from PvP to buy the gear, which is basically how the current system works, except that in ESO, PvP gear is best in slot for PvE'ers as well.
The problem with this system is that people are already forced to either PvP or pay lots of gold to buy PvP gear if they want their best in slot gear. This should never be the case. You should never have to PvP to get PvE gear or PvE to get PvP gear. That's just simply bad design.
Imperial city takes it to a whole new level, by requiring PvE'ers to PvP (if your faction doesn't own keeps) to get to the city, and PvP'ers to do PvE dungeons that they would otherwise not be interested in.
The fact remains, if either a pure PvE'er or a pure PvP'er want their best in slot gear, they will be required to do something they aren't interested in.
It's bad, mmkay?
@lordrichter that also came to mind to me.. population counts will come from "City, Sewers, Cyrodiil and Cyrodiil's caves" so it does seem like Cyrodiil itself may be empty (at least at the beginning when IC is brand new). I'm not sure about this - but I thought cave's currently are not counted in Cyrodiils population (hence sometimes not being able to leave). Adding them plus IC will definitely thin people out. I wonder if they will consider raising the pop caps before opening new campaigns. To ensure everyone can still find a fight (and it was mentioned caves, cyrodiil, IC and sewers are separate architecture - so in theory I would think shouldn't dig up lag issues)
Making Imperial City's control reliant on factions owning keeps is a huge mistake. ZOS is trying to remove buff servers, but this will just exchange buff servers for Imperial City servers. Screw some passives, give your empire complete and unfettered access to the entire endgame content!
That's a competitive advantage that far, far outweighs buff servers as they stand now.
marcmyb14_ESO wrote: »Nice logic here. If you don't like it don't buy it. Sure, that works, and then when all of your friends/guildies are vr16 with all the best gear, etc and need people to the dungeons with, you'll just say "sorry, I don't have it." that'll totally work out. I can even foresee people getting kicked from guilds because of this.
Attorneyatlawl wrote: »We already had numerous pve additions and none to pvp.
If I remember correctly they talked about IC and Orsinium a year ago. A year later we are "maybe" seeing IC in August. Its something I have to buy. But people here say well just "wait" for Orsinium ..........nice joke thanks a bunch.
Things that are serious problems for players that don't pvp, and please don't hide behind the "PVP hasn't gotten anything" excuse, you may have not gotten new actual content but you have gotten VR14 gear sets as well as XP boosts, buffs and fixes over the last year where PVE gear sets are tied to pledges that don't even scale to VR14. You even have the PVP Lead that answers your questions where as PVE just gets the proverbial finger every time we ask for answers.
1. Forced PVP
2. Gankers / Exploiters - They exist and nothing gets done about them.
3. Campaign Ques - Honestly I can't get into a Campaign that doesn't have a pop lock on it sometimes. This is going to be a nightmare and the "we will watch campaigns" isn't going to work because we all know how "fast" ZOS fixes things. .... Or I should say "slowly"
4. Gear Stones that other players can loot from your body if they kill you.
5. No New Trial Content ---- "soon" "not this patch" "maybe"
6. Gear sets gated behind not only a "buy the DLC" but also gated again by PVP
Apparently there will be PVE only content within Imperial City, again curious how that will work maybe that will be decent however worth 2500 crowns, I'm not so sure considering the following:
1. Gated behind PVP ...god I hope my faction doesn't suck as bad I do in PVP and maybe I can get into the content I paid for.
2. Long Ques - God I hope I can get into IC so I can progress my character in any capacity.
3. less then 1/4 of the content because I don't pvp, I don't want to lose the stones I just earned (if you can even earn them in the pve areas) by some jerk who wants to gank other players.
So pretty much the content is 2500 crowns and yet I'm not even going to want to play 1/4 of it because its forced pvp.
Yeah the more I think about it the more I'm gonna hope its not like this but after the wait, told to wait for Orsinium, the only thing I can count on from ZOS is being told to "wait", "soon", next patch, next content update" all with no actual information or dates.
Oh lets not forget the famous "ESO is about choices"
If you don't want to or don't like PVP you don't have to do it ..................I think after everything with IC this is pretty much self explanatory.
lordrichter wrote: »The BIG problem with Imperial City is that the Alliances that can get into Imperial City will be starved for manpower in the rest of Cyrodiil. I already hear people complaining that no one comes to defend or attack keeps because too many people are PVE. Imperial City will just make this worse, and on top if it, all of those people will be out of touch with the rest of Cyrodiil. When this goes live, we will have locked campaigns that are ghost towns for any Alliance that can access the City.
That's why I think it should be quite interesting. All of the campaign's population of one alliance is in the city, nobody's defending the keeps, so the keeps get capped and they lose city access. So they have to work on getting access back again while the other alliance goes into the city. I think this could work very well, constantly changing the landscape of which players are where. I hope they have thought of something that will avoid the theoretical "Imperial City (Buff) Servers" though.lordrichter wrote: »Well, one thought that came to me is that for Alliances that are not able to enter IC, there will be a lot of undefended keeps ripe for the picking. It might be easy to gain access to the City and that access will change hands a lot.@lordrichter that also came to mind to me.. population counts will come from "City, Sewers, Cyrodiil and Cyrodiil's caves" so it does seem like Cyrodiil itself may be empty (at least at the beginning when IC is brand new). I'm not sure about this - but I thought cave's currently are not counted in Cyrodiils population (hence sometimes not being able to leave). Adding them plus IC will definitely thin people out. I wonder if they will consider raising the pop caps before opening new campaigns. To ensure everyone can still find a fight (and it was mentioned caves, cyrodiil, IC and sewers are separate architecture - so in theory I would think shouldn't dig up lag issues)
@OmniDevil The armour is still there, but they may have changed its name. Orsinium and bear mounts are in the next DLC pack, not this one. XP scrolls and the in-game XP pots recipes are due to console before the end of the month.A while back, I remember reading somewhere that, after taking control of certain areas of the Imperial City (PvP aspect), the ability to craft "Imperial Daedric Style" armor becomes available. The style that resembles or is close to that of the Daedric armor during the CG Trailer.
- Was this just a rumor?
- True and eventually scrapped?
- TBA as we get closer to release?
In earlier articles, specifically http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2015/06/15/coming-to-esotu, we saw a glimpse of Orismer becoming available and Bear mounts being a thing (at least from what I gathered).
- Can we expect these with the Imperial City DLC or in future DLC/Updates way further in the future?
[...]
- Can we expect the XP Scrolls to be introduced to Console with the Imperial City release or sooner?
I've never been big on purchased XP Boosters, but at the rate leveling is going, I'm almost willing to put my opinions on them aside and purchase some, when available. I want to make sure I'm at the front of the pack, ready to burst through the gates. Not the straggler that eventually makes it to the finish line, while everyone is celebrating.
@OmniDevil The armour is still there, but they may have changed its name. Orsinium and bear mounts are in the next DLC pack, not this one. XP scrolls and the in-game XP pots recipes are due to console before the end of the month.
Attorneyatlawl wrote: »We already had numerous pve additions and none to pvp.
I think you got that backwards. AFAIK, there hasn't been a single soloable PvE addition since the game launched. The closest thing is Craglorn, which is only somewhat solable at very high VR. AlmostIf I remember correctly they talked about IC and Orsinium a year ago. A year later we are "maybe" seeing IC in August. Its something I have to buy. But people here say well just "wait" for Orsinium ..........nice joke thanks a bunch.
Things that are serious problems for players that don't pvp, and please don't hide behind the "PVP hasn't gotten anything" excuse, you may have not gotten new actual content but you have gotten VR14 gear sets as well as XP boosts, buffs and fixes over the last year where PVE gear sets are tied to pledges that don't even scale to VR14. You even have the PVP Lead that answers your questions where as PVE just gets the proverbial finger every time we ask for answers.
1. Forced PVP
2. Gankers / Exploiters - They exist and nothing gets done about them.
3. Campaign Ques - Honestly I can't get into a Campaign that doesn't have a pop lock on it sometimes. This is going to be a nightmare and the "we will watch campaigns" isn't going to work because we all know how "fast" ZOS fixes things. .... Or I should say "slowly"
4. Gear Stones that other players can loot from your body if they kill you.
5. No New Trial Content ---- "soon" "not this patch" "maybe"
6. Gear sets gated behind not only a "buy the DLC" but also gated again by PVP
Apparently there will be PVE only content within Imperial City, again curious how that will work maybe that will be decent however worth 2500 crowns, I'm not so sure considering the following:
1. Gated behind PVP ...god I hope my faction doesn't suck as bad I do in PVP and maybe I can get into the content I paid for.
2. Long Ques - God I hope I can get into IC so I can progress my character in any capacity.
3. less then 1/4 of the content because I don't pvp, I don't want to lose the stones I just earned (if you can even earn them in the pve areas) by some jerk who wants to gank other players.
So pretty much the content is 2500 crowns and yet I'm not even going to want to play 1/4 of it because its forced pvp.
Yeah the more I think about it the more I'm gonna hope its not like this but after the wait, told to wait for Orsinium, the only thing I can count on from ZOS is being told to "wait", "soon", next patch, next content update" all with no actual information or dates.
Oh lets not forget the famous "ESO is about choices"
If you don't want to or don't like PVP you don't have to do it ..................I think after everything with IC this is pretty much self explanatory.
Forcing PvP players to PvE and forcing PvE players to PvP, sounds like fun. Can I preorder now?
Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »I don't think paying for DLC that's behind a home or enemy keep control prerequisite is a particularly good idea, I was under the impression zos was addressing bad sportsmanship type behaviour such as exploiting PvP buffs, social systems, and the Emperor system, to me it seems like having the home/enemy keep prerequisites will just promote a new breed of bad sportsmanship.
I'm not sure I'll buy it based on the need to have a toon in each faction just to access content I've paid for at a time convenient to me, I don't want to have to PvP for hours on end to control enough of the board just to access IC and then realise it's gone 2am and I've to be up for work in 4hrs, The more I think about it the more I'm leaning towards just not bothering with it.
Attorneyatlawl wrote: »We already had numerous pve additions and none to pvp.
I think you got that backwards. AFAIK, there hasn't been a single soloable PvE addition since the game launched. The closest thing is Craglorn, which is only somewhat solable at very high VR. Almost
AssaultLemming wrote: »Darklord_Tiberius wrote: »@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
@ZOS_BrianWheeler
Can I get my questions answered about Veteran Dungeon sets and what is happening to them after the scaling up of dungeons? Are we going to have to re grind for all those sets?
Yes of course you are. In the history of this game zos has never, to my knowledge, levelled up an item that has already dropped.
Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »marcmyb14_ESO wrote: »I guess I just don't see it that way. I see it as PvP content where there is also a bit of PvE stuff to do, just like the rest of Cyrodiil.marcmyb14_ESO wrote: »Still missing the point.Just pay your guildies in gold to have them craft some VR16 IC gear for you and get them to mail it over. Problem solved.marcmyb14_ESO wrote: »Attorneyatlawl wrote: »Don't then. You can buy orsinium when it launches soon. We already had numerous pve additions and none to pvp. That's the great thing about the model here... if a dlc package doesn't offer what you like, you can keep playing without buying it.
I'm much more concerned as to the XP gap between mob grinding in pve versus what we get for pvp'ing. Will this be brought to better parity with the imperial city patch, @ZOS_BrianWheeler ?
Nice logic here. If you don't like it don't buy it. Sure, that works, and then when all of your friends/guildies are vr16 with all the best gear, etc and need people to the dungeons with, you'll just say "sorry, I don't have it." that'll totally work out. I can even foresee people getting kicked from guilds because of this.
Asking us to pay for PvE content that is gated behind PvP is just bad.
That's fine but that's not what it is. It is PvE content. An entire city with PvE quests, two PvE only group dungeons that drop gear tokens and other items/sets that people will want for their character regardless of whether or not they PvE or PvP.
I don't know how many other MMOs you've played but I've played many, and did endgame raiding in quite a few of them. Most of them have separate gear for PvP and PvE. In fact, the PvE sets are usually no good for PvP and vice versa due to differences in stats (such as a certain stat that is only useful in PvP). In those games, PvE dungeons are completely separate from PvP and drop nothing a PvP'er would want.
The only way to usually get PvP gear is to... guess what? PvP, and then use the currency from PvP to buy the gear, which is basically how the current system works, except that in ESO, PvP gear is best in slot for PvE'ers as well.
The problem with this system is that people are already forced to either PvP or pay lots of gold to buy PvP gear if they want their best in slot gear. This should never be the case. You should never have to PvP to get PvE gear or PvE to get PvP gear. That's just simply bad design.
Imperial city takes it to a whole new level, by requiring PvE'ers to PvP (if your faction doesn't own keeps) to get to the city, and PvP'ers to do PvE dungeons that they would otherwise not be interested in.
The fact remains, if either a pure PvE'er or a pure PvP'er want their best in slot gear, they will be required to do something they aren't interested in.
It's bad, mmkay?
From the start this has always been labelled as a combined PVP AND PVE game, they said straight from the start that PVP and PVE are NOT sperated and if you want everything and to be as strong as possible you will have to do BOTH. So to complain about them mixing them now is just silly.