The Day ESO Dies

Araxleon

Deltia wrote: »

Hello ESO Forums,

I posted this on my website but I know ZOS reads these forums so I figured I'd share my thoughts here. I'm one person the sea of awesome people that love this game. With the announcement of increase in Veteran Ranks I'd like to leave my feedback whether you agree or not. And here's what I have to say about the problem and fixing it.

Before I start I want to make clear where my opinions come from. I make my living playing THIS video game only. Not only that, but it's my primary means of socialization. Over the past two years (including beta), I've been infatuated with the idea of a multiplayer Elder Scrolls Game. Not to mention the help that ZOS has personally given me. I still love ESO, but I'm not going to blindly follow a games growth that does not fit my needs. Just realize the passion I have for this game, it's community and developers runs deep.

VR 16?

Within the same breath, Eric Wrobel said they still have long term plans of removing Veteran Ranks (VR), but for the new content they are increasing it by two thus making end game VR 16. At this point, I think it's clear that Veteran Ranks aren't going away, ANYTIME in the future. I have eight VR 14s and the problem I have with this isn't the time investment to re-level all those characters, or the fully legendary gear, but the constant deception about not adding more Veteran Ranks. We as customers have a right to voice or opinions and/or a right to stop being customers. For me, it's time to pick one and voicing seems to be the best option.

I have defended their decisions as a business model constantly but this is one I cannot ignore. Adding Veteran Ranks is not content, it's busy work. Content is intractable quest, dungeon diving finding worthwhile rewards with friends, a working PvP system giving flexibility and choices. Yes, I know Imperial City is coming with this additional Veteran Ranks, but why increase the cap? "Deltia to increase the contents difficulty," well that's true in most MMOs but not ESO and that's due to the Champion System.

Champion Progression

Most games have a level cap that once reached, one works on optimizing gear and your individual skill for increased performance. However, ESO has the Champion System rendering time in game collecting XP as account progression. So take the most skilled PvPer in the world (let's say Sypher) vs. someone with 1,000 more champion points. Skill is irreverent at this point. Thus removing one of the core reasons I play MMOs and video games alike. Busy work trumps constantly improving yourself. Grinding mobs and CP is the new meta, not skill.

Take another game for instance, you have fully maxed out gear and have been playing for four years. Once a level increase hits, most players will be on an even playing field in terms of gear. So, there is some possibility of catching up to those folks that spend eight hours a day in game. Not ESO, there is no Champion Point catch up mechanic. The person at level 10 might be more powerful than someone at VR14 due to CP. Without a catch up mechanic or a way to limit zombie grinding macros and bots, you'll have a runaway performance gap the size the Grand Canyon.
The Fix

Someone like me benefits significantly from the Champion System. Having alts, grinding mobs and skills, etc just makes me VERY powerful. But it does not help new players, inexperienced ones nor the overall game. My good friend Parfax had an excellent suggestion, simply have seasons for Champion Points. Meaning, every three months or so, you could gain 100 CP. Once you reach that number, you have to wait for the reset. No more 100 v 1,000 CP fights. If that doesn't work, why not make CP have diminishing returns? So the first 300 are very easy to obtain, but everything beyond that is harder (similar to Alliance Ranks).

I'm all for account wide progression, but at what cost? At the cost that people grinding zombies ultimately win? At the cost that skill and performance are removed out of the game? I want to one day challenge Sypher in PvP without out grinding him. With skill, learning, getting my face kicked in by him over and over just to beat him one day with pure skill. Until this changes, the easier way for me to beat him is out grind him. Obtain such a mathematical advantage that no amount of skill can compensate. And that is the day that ESO dies.

Why I Give a ****

No I do not plan on leaving the game. I still love the combat, the people and the developers. But I'm no longer a bushy eyed fan-boy. I don't want to leave this game, this is my absolute favorite thing to do (well besides you know what). I've have (not had) such an emotional attachment to the land of Tamriel that I won't let it go just yet. But I'm not going to sit back and let another level increase happen without a true fix to the underlying problem, the Champion System.

I really really understand where you coming from but hear me out, I dueled sypher the other day on stream, He has about 300 or so CP I have 147 I beat him and he beat me. We went back and forth I love your suggestions but skill is STILL a factor, THE only time it becomes a problem is when someone with 100 vs 1000 thats when a huge gap is made. Though overall your suggestions are better than the current system, Im fine with someone having 300 more than me, but 1000 more gets a bit crazy.


But in all seriousness something needs to be done about CP... Its not balanced at all.

sadownik

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

NOTE: V16 would NOT be a big deal if CP system would not exist

I must hesitantly agree. Heistantly because i see vr system as flawed in its roots but cs seem not dealing witht that but adding the whole new level of problems on top of that.

G0ku

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

It's almost that everyone has forgotten what a drastic diminishing return there are on champion points... They have already discussed adjusting for a champion point catch up mechanic at a time when it's needed.

So when will it be needed in your oppinion? Is a gap of 600 CP between players big enough for you?

According to players I know is that people that only play one char got around 200 CP, people like me who made some alts and just grinded the alts to VR14 to avoid Cadwells all over again are about 250-300 and leaderboard pve´ers are at least at 500-850 CP.

And raising the level cap 3x when game is so young is just crazy...

Paradox

I can't express how glad I am to see a major Streamer talking about actual issues with the game, and not just saying it's all rainbows and butterflies.

There's absolutely no excuse for the amount of lies that ZoS has been feeding us over the past few months leading up to and following the release of b2p and console. We need transparency regarding ESO or the community is going to get extremely toxic to ZoS and the game in general. We can already see it happening on the forums and in-game -- I'm definitely contributing, but we all have a right to be angry about this utter *** we're being fed.

It feels like they're treating us like nothing but cattle at this point. Here to make them money and nothing more -- no sense that they want to make the game an enjoyable experience. Crown store this, crown store that. Nothing that the game needs. It NEEDED content months ago. It NEEDS balancing NOW. It NEEDS bug fixes. It doesn't NEED crown store reskins and $30 mounts.

Make your damned voices heard about this. Don't just sit and say "Oh, well I guess it'll come soon". Get angry about their horribly decisions and changes (or lack thereof).

Phinix1

Deltia wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Deltia wrote: »

Most games have a level cap that once reached, one works on optimizing gear and your individual skill for increased performance. However, ESO has the Champion System rendering time in game collecting XP as account progression. So take the most skilled PvPer in the world (let's say Sypher) vs. someone with 1,000 more champion points. Skill is irreverent at this point. Thus removing one of the core reasons I play MMOs and video games alike. Busy work trumps constantly improving yourself. Grinding mobs and CP is the new meta, not skill.

Take another game for instance, you have fully maxed out gear and have been playing for four years. Once a level increase hits, most players will be on an even playing field in terms of gear. So, there is some possibility of catching up to those folks that spend eight hours a day in game. Not ESO, there is no Champion Point catch up mechanic.

I have been saying this for months and nothing has come of it other than being constantly harassed by trolls. But then who am I? Just some loyal developer of free content for TES for the past 15 years who never made one red cent off of any of it.

Perhaps now that a big name like Deltia with a loyal Youtube/Facebook/Twitter following that actually gets paid to support games has said something, something might actually get done.

I didn't mean any disrespect towards you or your work. I just wanted to give my opinion and I'm just one of many people that are involved in this community. I should have investigated a bit more into solutions and appreciate your work into solving the problem.

Not at all. I didn't mean to diminish your views on the matter, which are appreciated.

I have just grown somewhat weary of beating the dead horse on this issue and being trolled and disrespected for it both in mail and in game so I am happy to see others taking up the torch, especially others with a higher profile than me.

I feel sort of like Sisyphus taking on these issues. At the bottom of the hill with everything rolling back down.

Faulgor

Cously wrote: »

Few people complained about Champion System when it came out. Now that people saw they can't outskill grinders, we have a fuss. This is totally Elder Scrolls game, you can totally overpower the world around you. In all other games you could be a god maxing everything. What ZOS forgot is that ESO is online and there are more than one player in the game world. A 3600 CP character will be extremely overpowered compared to the world around it and people will complain they can't be overpowered as fast as others. And even if everyone was overpowered with maxed CP I don't think there would be a challenge left for anyone. Find a way to limit Champion System. I can't have all my skills slotted at the same time or all the weapons I want to use at same time, why do I get to use ALL of Champion System?

Yeah, that's what it comes down to for me. Being able to max everything is just poor, poor design. Eventually everything is mandatory, there is no build diversity and the gap is impossible to bridge for new players.

Woman

Araxleon wrote: »

I really really understand where you coming from but hear me out, I dueled sypher the other day on stream, He has about 300 or so CP I have 147 I beat him and he beat me. We went back and forth I love your suggestions but skill is STILL a factor, THE only time it becomes a problem is when someone with 100 vs 1000 thats when a huge gap is made. Though overall your suggestions are better than the current system, Im fine with someone having 300 more than me, but 1000 more gets a bit crazy.


But in all seriousness something needs to be done about CP... Its not balanced at all.

I don't think there's an issue with 140 compared to 300. The issue comes with more than a 200 difference which is quite common now. Look at the current PVE leaderboards. EU leads them completely because they have 500+ champion points. It's why people in NA are barely running trials anymore. What's the point in competing for times when you know you'll always be out done?

Lettigall

You are waiting for ZOS to remove veteran ranks and suddenly comes Eric Wrobel and *** slaps you with VR 16...

Champion system is a nightmare for new and returning players, especially in PvP. You start new game or return to the game, reach endgame and there are still unkillable opponents for you. They are unkillable not because they out skill you, but they simple have more CPs.

You reach max level and then you must grind Champions points for months to be competitive, doesn't sound motivating for new players.

every three months or so, you could gain 100 CP. Once you reach that number, you have to wait for the reset. No more 100 v 1,000 CP fights. If that doesn't work, why not make CP have diminishing returns? So the first 300 are very easy to obtain, but everything beyond that is harder (similar to Alliance Ranks).

Good idea. Let say at the beginning CP cap 300, after 3 months cap is 600 and to get first 300 you need less xp. Another 3 months cap is 900 now first 300 costs, lets say, 50% xp, 300-600 costs 75% xp. Now CP gap isn't Grand canyon and catching up is actually possible.

Without CP gap closer game will die. Old players gonna get bored, new players dissatisfied and only more fanatical players remain.

Araxleon

Araxleon wrote: »

Deltia wrote: »

Hello ESO Forums,

I posted this on my website but I know ZOS reads these forums so I figured I'd share my thoughts here. I'm one person the sea of awesome people that love this game. With the announcement of increase in Veteran Ranks I'd like to leave my feedback whether you agree or not. And here's what I have to say about the problem and fixing it.

Before I start I want to make clear where my opinions come from. I make my living playing THIS video game only. Not only that, but it's my primary means of socialization. Over the past two years (including beta), I've been infatuated with the idea of a multiplayer Elder Scrolls Game. Not to mention the help that ZOS has personally given me. I still love ESO, but I'm not going to blindly follow a games growth that does not fit my needs. Just realize the passion I have for this game, it's community and developers runs deep.

VR 16?

Within the same breath, Eric Wrobel said they still have long term plans of removing Veteran Ranks (VR), but for the new content they are increasing it by two thus making end game VR 16. At this point, I think it's clear that Veteran Ranks aren't going away, ANYTIME in the future. I have eight VR 14s and the problem I have with this isn't the time investment to re-level all those characters, or the fully legendary gear, but the constant deception about not adding more Veteran Ranks. We as customers have a right to voice or opinions and/or a right to stop being customers. For me, it's time to pick one and voicing seems to be the best option.

I have defended their decisions as a business model constantly but this is one I cannot ignore. Adding Veteran Ranks is not content, it's busy work. Content is intractable quest, dungeon diving finding worthwhile rewards with friends, a working PvP system giving flexibility and choices. Yes, I know Imperial City is coming with this additional Veteran Ranks, but why increase the cap? "Deltia to increase the contents difficulty," well that's true in most MMOs but not ESO and that's due to the Champion System.

Champion Progression

Most games have a level cap that once reached, one works on optimizing gear and your individual skill for increased performance. However, ESO has the Champion System rendering time in game collecting XP as account progression. So take the most skilled PvPer in the world (let's say Sypher) vs. someone with 1,000 more champion points. Skill is irreverent at this point. Thus removing one of the core reasons I play MMOs and video games alike. Busy work trumps constantly improving yourself. Grinding mobs and CP is the new meta, not skill.

Take another game for instance, you have fully maxed out gear and have been playing for four years. Once a level increase hits, most players will be on an even playing field in terms of gear. So, there is some possibility of catching up to those folks that spend eight hours a day in game. Not ESO, there is no Champion Point catch up mechanic. The person at level 10 might be more powerful than someone at VR14 due to CP. Without a catch up mechanic or a way to limit zombie grinding macros and bots, you'll have a runaway performance gap the size the Grand Canyon.
The Fix

Someone like me benefits significantly from the Champion System. Having alts, grinding mobs and skills, etc just makes me VERY powerful. But it does not help new players, inexperienced ones nor the overall game. My good friend Parfax had an excellent suggestion, simply have seasons for Champion Points. Meaning, every three months or so, you could gain 100 CP. Once you reach that number, you have to wait for the reset. No more 100 v 1,000 CP fights. If that doesn't work, why not make CP have diminishing returns? So the first 300 are very easy to obtain, but everything beyond that is harder (similar to Alliance Ranks).

I'm all for account wide progression, but at what cost? At the cost that people grinding zombies ultimately win? At the cost that skill and performance are removed out of the game? I want to one day challenge Sypher in PvP without out grinding him. With skill, learning, getting my face kicked in by him over and over just to beat him one day with pure skill. Until this changes, the easier way for me to beat him is out grind him. Obtain such a mathematical advantage that no amount of skill can compensate. And that is the day that ESO dies.

Why I Give a ****

No I do not plan on leaving the game. I still love the combat, the people and the developers. But I'm no longer a bushy eyed fan-boy. I don't want to leave this game, this is my absolute favorite thing to do (well besides you know what). I've have (not had) such an emotional attachment to the land of Tamriel that I won't let it go just yet. But I'm not going to sit back and let another level increase happen without a true fix to the underlying problem, the Champion System.

I really really understand where you coming from but hear me out, I dueled sypher the other day on stream, He has about 300 or so CP I have 147 I beat him and he beat me. We went back and forth I love your suggestions but skill is STILL a factor, THE only time it becomes a problem is when someone with 100 vs 1000 thats when a huge gap is made.

Woman wrote: »

Araxleon wrote: »

I really really understand where you coming from but hear me out, I dueled sypher the other day on stream, He has about 300 or so CP I have 147 I beat him and he beat me. We went back and forth I love your suggestions but skill is STILL a factor, THE only time it becomes a problem is when someone with 100 vs 1000 thats when a huge gap is made. Though overall your suggestions are better than the current system, Im fine with someone having 300 more than me, but 1000 more gets a bit crazy.


But in all seriousness something needs to be done about CP... Its not balanced at all.

I don't think there's an issue with 140 compared to 300. The issue comes with more than a 200 difference which is quite common now. Look at the current PVE leaderboards. EU leads them completely because they have 500+ champion points. It's why people in NA are barely running trials anymore. What's the point in competing for times when you know you'll always be out done?

True, another thing I personally find annoying is the 30, 75 120 perks.

Someone with (X) amount of CP will get that perk but you wont until you get enough CP. it just takes someone to get all those perks and THEN there will be a major difference.

G0ku

Woman wrote: »

I don't think there's an issue with 140 compared to 300. The issue comes with more than a 200 difference which is quite common now. Look at the current PVE leaderboards. EU leads them completely because they have 500+ champion points. It's why people in NA are barely running trials anymore. What's the point in competing for times when you know you'll always be out done?

It just gets worse, you can rely on that. Those players do nothing else than Cracked Wood Cave, Trail, Cracked Wood Cave, Trial, Cracked Wood Cave, Trial, Cracked Wood Cave, Trial. End of the year you will be in a new dimension of gap...

parpin

i believe the only solution is:
bethesda must take over ESO and zenimax remain the publisher..zenimax owns the ip (sadly) so they can mess with it..but ES universe fans must stand up to them and tell them enough is enough..bethesda morally owns the ip and they must take over the game..particularly the game's director should be one of the bethesda's people and not zos chosen.

azoriangaming

AllPlayAndNoWork wrote: »

rdbrown1987 wrote: »

my opinion on all of it is we've got 2 progression systems running atm which clearly don't go well together we need one or the other not both and we need it ASAP not as a long term brain fart,

the champion point system should've always had a cap on it until new content arrived then the cap increased each content update etc etc,

veteran ranks should've gone when the champion system was implemented or the champion system should've waited until they'd made that choice on removal of vet ranks.

there is no reason they can't release the new content as vr14 other than wanted to make a quick buck on the xp scrolls, I've got multiple toon and I'm a guy who hates grinding over and over again and I refuse to do so and I must admit I'm a little bit behind most with cp (277 atm) I like to log on chill chat with my guild mates do a dungeon or two and go do pvp and not think of how far behind I'm falling behind with no restrictions on CP gain, so imagine a new player coming into this game miles behind everyone, to be honest if I was that new player and I saw the system they'd got in place atm I wouldn't even bother coming to eso it's just too much of a gap to comprehend.

This game has so much potential and it's unbelieve what the ZoS big men are doing to this game and you can clearly see that this is their first project.

Bloody hell Milo, Nice one centurion !

had to get it off my chest haha

Gyudan

AllPlayAndNoWork wrote: »

This game has so much potential

People have been using this exact same sentence for 15 months.
ESO has been an empty husk since early 2015. Its soul is not coming back.

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

/lurk

Anxileel

I personally agree with Deltia with the Champion system being broken and unbalanced as well as having 2 more Veteran Ranks, I love this game and I despise continuous grinding I am starting to catch up to get to Veteran Rank 14 whilst I am currently Veteran Rank 13 whilst several days ago I was Veteran Rank 10 and during my grinding I saw people easily killing VR 10 enemies in a blink of an eye in which case they were VR 14 and I cannot compete on that level. ZOS this is the wrong move and we need to put a limit on the Champion System since from Deltias post is makes a lot of sense and I have seen quite a lot of OP people in PVE alone. I want to see this game go somewhere but not in this direction. I am one of the people who will not but the XP food and potions since it is getting incredibly close to Pay to Win and the current Champion System is evidence of this.

RazielSR

I agree with Deltia. Well, I guess finally everybody is seeing the reality of this game.

Maybe some people remember me. Mainly neveranine,we had some fights here in the forums. If you read my posts from february this year until a lot of months before...I was just trying to make people see the reality of the game and how it was being destroyed. I still playing the game. I stop when an interesting game appear and then I come back.

I have nothing to say regarding all this. if you read my posts (there was a lot of people talking about the bad path the game was going) you will see A LOT of people warning about it. We talked about the game going b2p and a lot of other things. Sadly, many of those people have left and this is like living the whole story again.

As I said many months ago, the game is done. Dont know what more do you people need to open your eyes.

I will continue playing for free of course. More or less the game will dissapear in about 2 years.

And its all done and known by zos. Its my opinion.
Just like other opinions I had and then were true. Opinions from me and thousands of people that are now playing other games.

MrGhosty

I would agree with a system to limit how quickly the CPs are earned but one problem comes to mind. Say they institute the seasons exactly as you say. This will slow the problem down but I don't believe it will actually solve the problem. The people such as yourself will still grind to reach the max and when the season ends you will wait to do it again as soon as you are able. Take Joe Bob the casual player who only plays 1-2 hours a day if even that, maybe he only can play a couple times a week. This CP cap isn't going to help catch up, it will just draw the problem out and make it appear (early on) that the problem doesn't exist. What happens when he fails to get his full allotment of CP for that given season? he'll then be locked into one caste for the entire time he stays playing.

Honestly I think the problem with the CP system is that the skills being prioritized are the ones that give direct vertical progression. I feel like the CPs should use horizontal progression that allows for more specialization. This makes the system something worth going for still, but without placing the players who grind cp so far above the casuals. This is also an aspirational system as those players who grind more points/put more time into the game will still be the "better" players but they won't be so far above better that a lowly, non cp heavy character wouldn't ever have a hope of defeating them either in PvP or on leaderboards.

Barring a complete redesign of the Champion system, they need to start separating players based on the amount of CP and to be perfectly honest this is a terrible idea from the get go but the alternatives I feel are even worse.

sadownik

RazielSR wrote: »

I agree with Deltia. Well, I guess finally everybody is seeing the reality of this game.

Maybe some people remember me. Mainly neveranine,we had some fights here in the forums. Of you read mu posts from february this year until a lot of months ago...I was just trying to make people see the reality of the game and how ot was beong destroyed. I still playing the game. I stop when an interesting game appear and then I come back.

I have nothing to say regarding all this. if you read my posts (there was a lot of people talking about the bad path the game was going) you will see A LOT of people warning about it. We talked about the game going b2p and a lot of other things. sadly, many of those people have left and this is like living the whole story again.

As I said many months ago, the game is done. Dont know what more do you people need to open your eyes.

I will continue playing for free of course. More or less the game will dissapear in about 2 years.

And its all done and known by zos. Its my opinion.
Just like other opinions I had and then were true. Opinions from me and thousands of people that are now playing other games.

While the feeling of hmm... failure? defeat? is present dont know how much the fact of ES frachise will matter. Mind you an eventuall faliure of such high budget product with the ES stamp that is one of the most valuable assets of Z. M. will effect the whole corporation and we dont know if there wont be some drastc "restructurization" plans. Well its b2p we will wait and see.

sadownik

MrGhosty wrote: »

I would agree with a system to limit how quickly the CPs are earned but one problem comes to mind. Say they institute the seasons exactly as you say. This will slow the problem down but I don't believe it will actually solve the problem. The people such as yourself will still grind to reach the max and when the season ends you will wait to do it again as soon as you are able. Take Joe Bob the casual player who only plays 1-2 hours a day if even that, maybe he only can play a couple times a week. This CP cap isn't going to help catch up, it will just draw the problem out and make it appear (early on) that the problem doesn't exist. What happens when he fails to get his full allotment of CP for that given season? he'll then be locked into one caste for the entire time he stays playing.

Honestly I think the problem with the CP system is that the skills being prioritized are the ones that give direct vertical progression. I feel like the CPs should use horizontal progression that allows for more specialization. This makes the system something worth going for still, but without placing the players who grind cp so far above the casuals. This is also an aspirational system as those players who grind more points/put more time into the game will still be the "better" players but they won't be so far above better that a lowly, non cp heavy character wouldn't ever have a hope of defeating them either in PvP or on leaderboards.

Barring a complete redesign of the Champion system, they need to start separating players based on the amount of CP and to be perfectly honest this is a terrible idea from the get go but the alternatives I feel are even worse.

Well put.

newtinmpls

Mr_Bubbely wrote: »

And I agree, whats the point of an MMO if you can't advance further and get even better? Isnt that the point of an MMO? To become the very best you can be?

And I disagree. The point of my playing an MMO is so that my best friend and I can play in the ES universe together.

That being said, due to the rampant inequities inherent in the poorly executed Champion Point system, any cautious curiosity I have had about PvP (I mostly stink at it, and getting instantly killed does NOT encourage participation) is not going to lead me to try it.

Even with me playing a vet 14 (which I do not have yet) vs a max-CPed vet 1 or 2; it's not even a contest. I'm toast.

No limited PvP such as 4x4x4 or 8x8x8 (which has been suggested in many threads) means no place to learn without dying fast enough to dishearten anyone not on serious meds, or a near-fatal amount of caffeine.

Mashille

Completely Agree Deltia.

Forged333

Nooooooo~ They changed their mind o.0 That is such a huge mistake carrying on the busted system. o.0
I get that its necessary in order to manage the gear inflation for new content. But they shoulda just been ready to make the change like they said they were... This is not the solution either.
Im not meaning to sound bad; I just.. They seem to still have no idea which way they are going. This is not the best time to continue that old bad habit.

Gidorick

MrGhosty wrote: »

Take Joe Bob the casual player who only plays 1-2 hours a day if even that, maybe he only can play a couple times a week. This CP cap isn't going to help catch up, it will just draw the problem out and make it appear (early on) that the problem doesn't exist. What happens when he fails to get his full allotment of CP for that given season? he'll then be locked into one caste for the entire time he stays playing.

I COMPLETLEY agree @MrGhosty

Fissh

I can't agree more. I happen to enjoy new level caps in most MMOs. I don't care about losing all my outdated yet legendary gear to the new farm. It is what levels out the playing field when expansions hit. However, as stated, the CP chase ruins any chance of leveling out playing fields.
Ultimately, I don't believe ESO to have any real sense of 'endgame' and what it should be. Let's look at PVE Best in Slot gear: almost all of it is obtained through PVP or a PVPers sales. How about gear optimizations? None. The new 1.6 Meta in gear wasn't even on the radar of the developers. Almost every bit of the Trial gear was rendered useless (sure, some may argue this, but most of us 'raiders' know the deal).
The conversation around veteran ranks used to be "phasing". I haven't heard that lingo in awhile. So I am left to assume the "phasing" is over, put on back burner, and possibly never to be seen.
I play on the EP side, and only know of 3-4 Guilds competing on the Leaderboards (Trials/DSA). Two of which I am in. Other than that, the 'raiding' guilds I knew of pre-1.6 have disappeared, shutdown, or just simply fallen of the map.
ESO has never really catered to such players. Answered such players. Or given an ounce of concern to such players concerns.
Matter of fact, my impression of Mr. Eric Wobel was not a good one. He seemed to be a developer with the kind of attitude as such: "I will develop this game as I see fit, deal with it because I am in control". During ESO Live, the guy KNEW the information he was giving was not going to be taken well. So why is he developing is that direction? Especially if he is aware of the distaste of it.
ESO Devs have a vision of this game. It has become apparent that it is not the community's vision. They will develop this straight into the dirt if they don't listen up.
The gap of CP: come up with a solution sooner than later
The gear for PVE: let PVE'ers PVE to get it.....common sense.
CP gain: let dungeons/vdungeons/Trials be just as efficient as solo grinding....this is a MMO right? Multiplayer?
Vet levels: if they are meant to go away, don't increase the cap. Develop at the vr14 level....even expansions...till you have a solution to give.

Summary: ESO development = bandaids.

Phinix1

Mr_Bubbely wrote: »

Sithisvoid wrote: »

BrightnessSyl wrote: »

Sithisvoid wrote: »

Kinda started to die for me when i tuned into a streamers' channel and he was hating on a race so much he was singing "ain't no Nord in my blood"

Sithisvoid clearly that was a joke, humor is always needed when streaming. This has nothing to do with that. DO you play the game? Do you care about the changes? Put personal views toward a streamer aside and fight for your game.

I don't see anything wrong with VR16 or Champion points. MMO's raise level cap. Champion points keep people playing the game. Plus what kind of backlash would erupt if they removed them? The people who spent hour upon hour grinding will suddenly leave the mobs and return the the forum in Frankenstein mob form.

And I agree, whats the point of an MMO if you can't advance further and get even better? Isnt that the point of an MMO? To become the very best you can be?

This is ZOS's main problem right here. Short sighted thinking based on "what keeps people paying me" rather than "what makes games fun." It is the disconnect between failing to consider the 2nd and diminishing revenue that will cause this game to fail. ZOS are incredibly stubborn and refuse to consider that designing around making things fun IS what keeps people paying! They would rather milk the whales and grinders with ADD and the need for comparative validation (read: the need to compare themselves to others and see they have "more" of something in order to feel they have achieved something).

A successful MMO like WoW understands the importance of BALANCE in this equation. That is why they have Arena SEASONS and raid TIERS. Yes you can run the treadmill and improve, have new experiences, get new gear, but you do it TOGETHER. That is what is missing in ESO. In a tried and tested game like WoW you can join a group of players in a guild and catch up within a matter of weeks/months. Then you SHARE the experience of improving, yet no one improves far beyond anyone else due to the raid tier being fixed until new content is released.

This is the sort of rewarding team play that PROFESSIONAL companies provide.

ESO comes off as amateur and inexperienced, and stubbornly resistant to change. They are hard-headedly convinced their way is the best way, in spite of all feedback to the contrary. According to ZOS there should be no shared experience, no limits to a raid or arena season that prevents any one group from pulling unattainably ahead of everyone else destroying fair play for new players.

According to ZOS, mindless zombie grinders should be rewarded and encouraged with leaderboards to directly compare epeen, XP scrolls to be bought for real dollars to help them grind, and a HORRIBLE CP system with no limits so they can just mindlessly grind 24/7, pay their friends to grind their accounts while they sleep, all to gain an unfair advantage that destroys any semblance of shared experience or sportsmanship as a reward for their self-abuse of a broken system.

We hear arguments like "these players are amazing, they earned that advantage." I'm sorry, but mindlessly mashing Steel Tornado in a troll cave does NOT make you awesome. It makes you have no life and a desperate need for validation through unfair advantage, and ZOS should be ashamed to be catering to this mentality.

An MMO will succeed if there is A SHARED EXPRIENCE OF PROGRESSION and a sense of FAIR PLAY.

If you take that away, and everything is "us vs. them," "me vs. the world" and throw a unregulated linear power ladder at mindless 24/7 grinders, you will have effectively thrown your franchise out the window.

The solution is incredibly simple, as so many have stated: Implement tiered limits to how many CP can be gained in a given period LIKE EVERY OTHER MMO HAS SEASONS AND TIER LIMITS, and let the 1% grinders QQ about their unfair advantage for living an unhealthy life being taken away. More important you keep the 99% of legit players which hopefully the suits are beginning to realize.

In addition, make CP gain faster the further from the current cap you are. Do these two simple things and the problem is essentially solved, but again ZOS is incredibly stubborn and the suits are convinced they can make more money milking whales than listening to the concerns of the majority of their (formerly) paying customers.

It is a real self fulfilling prophecy scenario. We'll see if they have the courage and integrity to admit that they were wrong.

Muizer

Deltia wrote: »

But I'm not going to sit back and let another level increase happen without a true fix to the underlying problem, the Champion System.

You care too much for something you have no control over. Reserve that sentiment for your loved ones. They'll give you grief enough.

Daenerys

Thank you for speaking up @Deltia. Adding Veteran Ranks does not equal new content. We are starved for content.

What happened to everything from Quakecon 2014? Where is the Imperial City, Murkmire, Wrothgar, Spellcrafting, the PvP part of the Justice System, Dark Brotherhood, and Thieves Guild?

WHY have you gone back on your word to get rid of VRs and done a 180 to add more?! Why is that promised removal now part of your long term vision- along with Player Housing in the infamous realm of maybe someday?

Where are the Road Ahead articles? The last one I recall was from February- and that had devolved into something akin to The Road Behind. With key players from your team now gone, perhaps you can no longer provide this for you don’t know where you are going... and that is a shame.

I want this game to succeed, but doing the exact opposite of what was promised is not the way to instill confidence.

Psychobunni

I'm more a fan of the tiering like alliance ranks/leveling rather than seasons as far as earning CP's goes.

It is good to see names ZOS likes to listen to speaking up, I genuinely wish you guys good luck in getting some changes that will keep the game attractive to all player types and new players to come. Don't give up!

Edit: @AlienDiplomat you are right, a combination of the two would be better than either/or

Deltia

Muizer wrote: »

Deltia wrote: »

But I'm not going to sit back and let another level increase happen without a true fix to the underlying problem, the Champion System.

You care too much for something you have no control over. Reserve that sentiment for your loved ones. They'll give you grief enough.

You're right, maybe it's time to take this much less seriously.

AJTC5000

Well it seems my big-ass comment got deleted, and I can't remember anything that I wrote. And now my fingers hurt. I think the main points were:

1. Parfax's solution - Needs a bit more of a boost to the new players or else there's going to be a constantly increasing gap of people getting 100 CP and new players getting maybe 20 or 30 CP.
2. VR16 - I did a maths calculation regarding the 15% decrease in XP gain you need, so from VR1-16 you actually only need 13.6m XP rather than 14m XP, so they've tried to make it easier. To what avail I don't know.
3. VR16 - For Orsinium I presume. This is the one factor I actually agree with, as we need to see some kind of progression for this new area. I'd still be going even if it wasn't increased (lore-wh*re/completionist all the way), but I fear the grind-y players won't agree

Feel free to argue with this, I might remember some points in the replies

Romo

Well, this might be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

Sigh....

Agree with Deltia, Zos needs to respond to her, Soon. (that's a real Soon not an MMO Soon.)