Yes to VR16!

Shimmer

NadiusMaximus wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

NadiusMaximus wrote: »

ZOS raises the cap when there is no new content and wont be for another six months in order to keep people around.
I've done every quest, all but 3 last trials. I've maxed all crafting skills. Fishing puts me to sleep. So what else is there?
This time last year I loved the game, 8 hours daily minimum. It was awesome. Now I may check in once or twice a week.
I've been doing the provision daily once in a while, but that's not playing.

I see the pure notion of a raise, after saying deletion for so long, as a last ditch effort to keep numbers up before this fall when stuff should release. I also see this grasp at straws as a good sign that things are not going as plan and we will not see anything new until next year.

New VR will be in game along with IC so there will be new content with new lvls

OK, I thought the raise was coming before content release in September.

I still don't get why though?
Does Christopher Walken work there?
"Needs more veteran levels".
"We are going to get rid of the veteran system, by adding more veteran system."
"I got a fever, and the only cure, is more veteran system".

Elijah_Crow

Sylance9 wrote: »

NadiusMaximus wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

NadiusMaximus wrote: »

ZOS raises the cap when there is no new content and wont be for another six months in order to keep people around.
I've done every quest, all but 3 last trials. I've maxed all crafting skills. Fishing puts me to sleep. So what else is there?
This time last year I loved the game, 8 hours daily minimum. It was awesome. Now I may check in once or twice a week.
I've been doing the provision daily once in a while, but that's not playing.

I see the pure notion of a raise, after saying deletion for so long, as a last ditch effort to keep numbers up before this fall when stuff should release. I also see this grasp at straws as a good sign that things are not going as plan and we will not see anything new until next year.

New VR will be in game along with IC so there will be new content with new lvls

OK, I thought the raise was coming before content release in September.

I still don't get why though?
Does Christopher Walken work there?
"Needs more veteran levels".
"We are going to get rid of the veteran system, by adding more veteran system."
"I got a fever, and the only cure, is more veteran system".

Will Ferrell Reaches VR16!

Forestd16b14_ESO

I say yes. That's 2 more attribute and skill points and better craftable gear. Who would say no to some purple or gold V16 armor and weapons or 2 more points into magicka or stamina or even health? I know I wont. Players really need to stop only looking at the negatives at stuff and update 7 and look at all the posatives. Imperial city, buffs to classes cept sorc BE nerf , and that's from what they only teased about update 7.

Shimmer

qsnoopyjr

V15, V16..

They get complete new armor sets from motif1 all the way to motif14 or whatever the highest motif is.

Did I hear this correctly???

If this is why they adding 2 more Veteran Ranks.
I say
YES!!!
!!!! YES
!!!! !!!!! YES!!!!

tordr86b16_ESO

Sylance9 wrote: »

NadiusMaximus wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

NadiusMaximus wrote: »

ZOS raises the cap when there is no new content and wont be for another six months in order to keep people around.
I've done every quest, all but 3 last trials. I've maxed all crafting skills. Fishing puts me to sleep. So what else is there?
This time last year I loved the game, 8 hours daily minimum. It was awesome. Now I may check in once or twice a week.
I've been doing the provision daily once in a while, but that's not playing.

I see the pure notion of a raise, after saying deletion for so long, as a last ditch effort to keep numbers up before this fall when stuff should release. I also see this grasp at straws as a good sign that things are not going as plan and we will not see anything new until next year.

New VR will be in game along with IC so there will be new content with new lvls

OK, I thought the raise was coming before content release in September.

I still don't get why though?
Does Christopher Walken work there?
"Needs more veteran levels".
"We are going to get rid of the veteran system, by adding more veteran system."
"I got a fever, and the only cure, is more veteran system".

No more vet bells, please!

tordr86b16_ESO

Id rather watch blue oyster cult a 1000's times than level two more vet bells.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCd0OjjCz88

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Samadhi wrote: »

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

Some points you should know. - Long term goal is still to remove veteran ranks, but it is intimately tied with gear progression currently. This allows them to release more content without the delay on full re-itemization.
...

So v16 is just an excuse to get us to burn off more refining items before they change gears on us again.

Okay. Will just stick with my v14 stuff then.

No, VR16 is an excuse to make you spend hours re-grinding all of the Undaunted Dailies to get your monster helms/shoulders in VR14/VR16 respectively. They think if they keep stealing your gear then you will be too busy to notice the huge lapses in content. Then, they either flat out sell gear on the crown store or sell shortcuts that effectively allow you to get that gear sooner.

The writing's on the wall. Now is the time to call it out and kill it in the crib.

jaibierwb17_ESO

Why does no one else seem to realise that v16 is an obvious next step towards removal of vet levels?
They can't just put us all back to level 50, plus you then have headaches with alchemy and crafting mats, so they will have to do a change to regular levels. With vr14 the new cap would be 63, or they could do 2 regular levels per vet level for a cap of 76. Both ugly, unrounded numbers. Increasing the cap to v16 means that when vet ranks are removed, we will have a much nicer rounded cap of either 65 or 80.

Deathztalker

With all the changes to XP plus all the XP bonus crafters are figuring it's going to take them 2.5 hours to 5 hours to hit VR16. The grinders are talking it taking 1.5 hours - 3 hours depending on the number of people in the area.

When compared to all the benefits and problems going to VR16 will allow them solve no one on the forms as the time I'm making this post has made any case why going to VR16 is a bad thing.

daswahnsinn

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

Id rather watch blue oyster cult a 1000's times than level two more vet bells.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCd0OjjCz88

You'd get more XP doing this type of grind. HAHAA JK

F7sus4

NadiusMaximus wrote: »

I don't get it. They nerf the living b jebbus out of everything. Starve us for content for a year. Then right before raising the cap and releasing new stuff, they double everything?
Won't that just make us Starve again, since we hit max so quickly?

This will keep you busy on redoing your gear, thus giving them more time to work on new content.

Elijah_Crow

It's more about letting others catch up quickly but at the same time keeping the gear in a higher tier so Vet Players have something to work towards.

Kingof green

I don't want to have to spent another thousands of gold buying and re-upgrading all my stuff, your legendary gear you spent so much time and gold on will be just useless, unless your able to automatically transfer your vet14 items to vet 16 then I'd be fine enough with 2 extra vet ranks added to the game.

Rinmaethodain

And by useless you mean, it will have like 5% less armor (because thats the difference between two VR lvls)? With heavy armor the difference between VR12 and 14 is not even 100 armor.

Do you mean it becomes useless because if its crafted set you will have 5% less of bonus resource (thats the difference between two VR lvls of gear)? X items bonus adds Y max health, magicka, spell res, armor. The whole 5% difference between soon to be VR14 and 16 will be less than 100 max health, magicka, armor, spell resist bonus from crafted sets.

And now assuming that your main resource (health, mana, stam) or resistance is way above 20k it turns out, the bonus stat from having VR16 gear instead of VR14 (which will be USELESS like most of people cry) is in fact not even a 1% of your stats.

Seriosly, do you people even try to think before crying "OEHNEO MY GEAR SO USELESS NAO"? You are crying over not more of 5% of stat increase and 0,005% (this is half of a percent FIY) in crafted sets.

The 0,005 makes your gear useless?

Nice to know.

I moar vet ranks.

sadownik

MaximusDargus wrote: »

And by useless you mean, it will have like 5% less armor (because thats the difference between two VR lvls)? With heavy armor the difference between VR12 and 14 is not even 100 armor.

Do you mean it becomes useless because if its crafted set you will have 5% less of bonus resource (thats the difference between two VR lvls of gear)? X items bonus adds Y max health, magicka, spell res, armor. The whole 5% difference between soon to be VR14 and 16 will be less than 100 max health, magicka, armor, spell resist bonus from crafted sets.

And now assuming that your main resource (health, mana, stam) or resistance is way above 20k it turns out, the bonus stat from having VR16 gear instead of VR14 (which will be USELESS like most of people cry) is in fact not even a 1% of your stats.

Seriosly, do you people even try to think before crying "OEHNEO MY GEAR SO USELESS NAO"? You are crying over not more of 5% of stat increase and 0,005% (this is half of a percent FIY) in crafted sets.

The 0,005 makes your gear useless?

Nice to know.

I moar vet ranks.

So... you want 2 ranks added for that?

Rinmaethodain

I want two ranks added because all the exp im getting anyway while having fun running pug dungeons will be used for something more than just "big sink of CP exp".

Also yes, i want to have 2 ranks added for that. New VR and higher VR gear gives a player a way to improve a bit (by those 5% and half or %). This improvement is insignificant, thanks to that peoples VR14 gear wont become useless just like some people dramatise. And on the other hand, people who can afford to do that, will get their shines for 0,005 placebo effect.

And just as above, you are getting exp anyway while playing game, if it goes towards lvls along with CP it makes doing things more profitable.

gresiac

Welcome to mmo's , grinding is just part of it

GreySix

MaximusDargus wrote: »

I moar vet ranks.

Quick aside: When did it become popular for kids to purposefully misspell the word, more?

Rinmaethodain

" moar
1. A combination of "more" and "roar". "

Its kind of overhyped more

Elijah_Crow

GreySix wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

I moar vet ranks.

Quick aside: When did it become popular for kids to purposefully misspell the word, more?

Thank you for making me feel young. I want MOAR Veteran Ranks, and I'm 44. And yes, it's from "more" and "roar".

Rebeccas04nub18_ESO

hamgatan wrote: »

so if there is a 15% reduced XP cost to achieve each VR level, does that mean all current VR14's will automatically be scaled to VR16...?

i.e. 14,000,000 XP to get to VR14... 1,000,000 per VR Level. If that's reduced by 15% it's 850,000 per level then.

14,000,000 / 850,000 = 16.47 <-- So this would actually mean you have more XP than achieving VR16 would require?

Exactly what I was thinking. Many of us did the grind before 1.6 and are basically VR15 if there was a vr15. How's that going to work when they change the cap to VR16? Are they planning on removing some of our XP so we have to grind to get up to where we should be already?

Elijah_Crow

Currently you are not able to exceed the xp needed for VR14. Xp you earn currently earns you champion points only. Once the cap is raised you will be able to earn XP which goes toward your level and champion points but everyone will have to level to VR15 and then VR16. This was stated in a Dev post on the ESO sub reddit and I'm sure you will see clarification by July 13 posted here as well.

The entire point of level cap increases in MMO's are to give players at level cap a new challenge and new rewards to earn over time. The xp will have to be earned and so will the new stronger gear by fighting more powerful opponents.

Attorneyatlawl

I hope @ZOS_RichLambert is lurking in this thread. There is quite a good deal of on-point and much more earnest, insightful discussion than in most of them about this topic. If he isn't... maybe @ZOS_GinaBruno or @ZOS_JessicaFolsom can point him this way .

Proteus1 wrote: »

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

Lol. WoW and SWTOR do this every year.

Maybe I'm missing something, but this seems very different than what WoW does.

When WoW releases an expansion, there's a progression reset of sorts. The new quests and dungeons in the new expansion zone will offer gear that is on par with raid gear from the previous tier. The new raids have lock-out timers, so the elite progression guilds can only progress through the new content at a fixed rate. So, if you are far behind the bleeding edge progression people, you have a chance to be on a more even field for a time when an expansion drops. PvP also gets a reset with new arena seasons and new PvP gear

This sort of format gives average people the potential to catch up a bit and not just fall further and further behind the folks who play the game like it's a job. It also gives newer hardcore players the ability to catch up and submit apps to elite raiding/pvp guilds.

This reset is a big draw for people and I think it's a big part of what has made players continually come back to WoW for a decade. If there is no progression reset feature, most people would just eventually be so far behind the people at the top that there would literally be no way to catch up.

Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like the champion point system combined with increasing VR levels does the exact opposite of what WoW does. It makes it even more difficult for people to catch up. This isn't going to bring people back to the game, in fact it will probably deter them. I understand that veteran leveling will be faster now, but that still doesn't offer any sort of reset.

I'm not complaining here; I've played this game very casually since release and I'm not at all invested in its future. I couldn't care less if you are VR 200. I just wanted to point out that this is really nothing like what other MMOs do with their expansions.

Well, actually... yes, you are missing something .

Wow has lockout timers. ESO has RNG (random drop chances). Both result in the same statistical loot distribution, over time, and are different ways of doing the same thing but with less player annoyance by being strictly forbidden to play that content during a lockout.

Wow has new gear that immediately makes everything else you've ever done in the game or obtained for equipment obsolete and essentially worthless. ESO has beyond-extremely minor power increases on gear, with the changes providing more horizontal (different, but not numerically stronger) progression availability through new set bonus types, skills, and other facets.

Wow immediately sets everyone back to square one. It then requires everyone to start back up from scratch, repeating the same thing as the prior time period where top-end progression players speed through and gain their old power gap back in short order, while less competitive players are left in the dust and unable to in any way, shape, or form, including even being carried and playing a ludicrous amount of time per day, catch up if they didn't do it from the start. ESO provides such a small amount of extra raw power on the equipment that it could be considered zero statistically (see the math below).

The champion system is a big can of worms. Suffice to say, the first 300-400 points are important. The next couple of hundred will continue to gain moderately for many builds. Beyond that, you see a significant nosedive in how much they amplify your actual performance, both due to inherent relative diminishment and what parts of your combat they affect. I'll be doing a detailed post regarding this soon, but by and large, a simple "The first X number of champion points require less XP" that is raised every so often with patches, for now say "The first 120 champion points take less XP to earn" and then six months from now, "The first 225 champion points take less XP to earn" and so on would basically take care of the issue of power gaps when combined with the current enlightenment system that penalizes you after earning your first champion point in any given 24-hour period. Yes, the numbers are shiny and big. No, they don't make as giant a gap as it intuitively looks, when you boil it down to the facts after a moderate initial champion rank as described above. Wow's system is by far worse if you are not a hardcore player, for allowing you to even attempt to "keep up with the Joneses".

MaximusDargus wrote: »

I want two ranks added because all the exp im getting anyway while having fun running pug dungeons will be used for something more than just "big sink of CP exp".

Also yes, i want to have 2 ranks added for that. New VR and higher VR gear gives a player a way to improve a bit (by those 5% and half or %). This improvement is insignificant, thanks to that peoples VR14 gear wont become useless just like some people dramatise. And on the other hand, people who can afford to do that, will get their shines for 0,005 placebo effect.

And just as above, you are getting exp anyway while playing game, if it goes towards lvls along with CP it makes doing things more profitable.

Absolutely agreed, and honestly, it's fun to see something ticking up! That's why people are playing RPG's and not Chess. You want to see some persistence.

This is a very, very soft reset... people really should understand that their gear is not outmoded by it, and most people will earn the ranks in short enough order just by playing, while looking to replace a lot of the gear with new set bonuses that don't even currently exist anyways out of what you're currently using. If anyone truly believes that, somehow, under a half of one percent in stats, which equates to typically under a fifteenth of one percent in damage/healing output or other combat performance, is gimping them... don't. That's not anyone's problem. See below for proof:



The entire 5-piece set will differ by a grand total in this example, by 4 magicka recovery, 33 max magicka, and 6 spell damage, before minor percentage boosts such as a spell pot (20%, so you'd end up with an extra 7.2 spell damage rating here). That equates to, depending on the skill, a whopping 7-9 damage or healing between the magicka increase and spell damage rating increase, on what you normally deal (typically in the several-thousand range for a nuke or direct heal).

Let's take a simple example of a player that normally heals for 6991 with their Blessing of Protection. Moving from VR12 to VR14 gear when using the Arch-Mage set for them, would bring it to around 7000 even. Here comes the math... :

7000 divided by 6991 = 1.00128.

What does this mean? For the less mathematically inclined... that means you are gaining about 1.3... tenths... of ONE percent. As you can probably imagine... it's statistically nothing, and essentially so small it could easily be mistaken for a margin of error/near-rounding difference.

EDIT: Misplaced decimals in a prior immediate edit before going AFK a few. Fixed!

EDIT 2: That's why, even when V12 gear hit... I still wore almost entirely V10, even when doing this staggering DPS back then:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ar95AyLP1aU

And that character is an Imperial... so it doesn't have the shiny 9% maximum magicka and 7% flame damage (back then, it acted as a spell power bonus rather than a flat damage percentage boost, but nevertheless... it would have been substantial) passives, nor did it back then. The DPS shown there was an average for me, not a peak. My best runs hit upwards of another 10% higher, and on the other bosses such as the Stone Atronarch the numbers were only about 10-12% shy of what I would get on the Storm Atronarch in a given run.

Numbers are fine and dandy... but don't be fooled by the hype: all the best gear and fractions of fractions of a percent don't matter if you don't know how to use them properly. Without stat/character power differences being orders of magnitude apart... your skill is what makes it happen at the end of the day. That same character was in the first NA Hel Ra clear for DC, and the second (long story... we would have been first, but the final boss had a complete bug-out that while we could have killed her for credit, we opted not to get first by using that even though we could have beaten it had it not bugged, properly, and it was our last go of the night) NA Aetherian Archive clear for DC.

Oh, and I guess I may as well tag him, since he might not mind reading this post . Have a good afternoon Mr. Wheeler (@ZOS_BrianWheeler) if you're lurking around .

Sallington

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

Some points you should know. - Long term goal is still to remove veteran ranks, but it is intimately tied with gear progression currently. This allows them to release more content without the delay on full re-itemization.

1. XP needed for every VR rank reduced by 15%
2. Quest XP increased by 50%
3. Public Dungeons (Large group delves) Doubling XP
4. Craglorn XP increased by 20%

It appears that this increase will be timed with the release of new content Imperial City / Wrothgar

At this time many new armor and weapon sets will be introduced as well. (Two weeks for details)


Gear progression is inevitable. I would most likely re-make my gear any way with one of the new sets. Sounds like there will be a wide range of new gear.

Sky is not falling.

So the plan is to get players out of the leveling experience of 1-50, arguably the best part of the game, as quickly as possible?

I guess rushing people to "end-game" which is currently a stagnant mess is a great strategy.

wrathofrraath

delete

nimander99

Kingof green wrote: »

I don't want to have to spent another thousands of gold buying and re-upgrading all my stuff, your legendary gear you spent so much time and gold on will be just useless, unless your able to automatically transfer your vet14 items to vet 16 then I'd be fine enough with 2 extra vet ranks added to the game.

The entitlement is strong with this one, my master.

Elijah_Crow

Sallington wrote: »

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

Some points you should know. - Long term goal is still to remove veteran ranks, but it is intimately tied with gear progression currently. This allows them to release more content without the delay on full re-itemization.

1. XP needed for every VR rank reduced by 15%
2. Quest XP increased by 50%
3. Public Dungeons (Large group delves) Doubling XP
4. Craglorn XP increased by 20%

It appears that this increase will be timed with the release of new content Imperial City / Wrothgar

At this time many new armor and weapon sets will be introduced as well. (Two weeks for details)


Gear progression is inevitable. I would most likely re-make my gear any way with one of the new sets. Sounds like there will be a wide range of new gear.

Sky is not falling.

So the plan is to get players out of the leveling experience of 1-50, arguably the best part of the game, as quickly as possible?

I guess rushing people to "end-game" which is currently a stagnant mess is a great strategy.

No, I think the idea is to allow a level 50 character to reach VR16 in a shorter time. I too have concerns about out leveling content from 1 to 50. I almost wish they would only increase quest xp in VR Zones.

ch.ris317b14_ESO

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

Some points you should know. - Long term goal is still to remove veteran ranks, but it is intimately tied with gear progression currently. This allows them to release more content without the delay on full re-itemization.

1. XP needed for every VR rank reduced by 15%
2. Quest XP increased by 50%
3. Public Dungeons (Large group delves) Doubling XP
4. Craglorn XP increased by 20%

It appears that this increase will be timed with the release of new content Imperial City / Wrothgar

At this time many new armor and weapon sets will be introduced as well. (Two weeks for details)


Gear progression is inevitable. I would most likely re-make my gear any way with one of the new sets. Sounds like there will be a wide range of new gear.

Sky is not falling.

So the plan is to get players out of the leveling experience of 1-50, arguably the best part of the game, as quickly as possible?

I guess rushing people to "end-game" which is currently a stagnant mess is a great strategy.

No, I think the idea is to allow a level 50 character to reach VR16 in a shorter time. I too have concerns about out leveling content from 1 to 50. I almost wish they would only increase quest xp in VR Zones.

Why PVE content and zones should scale

Majic

Just Say No

The problem with antics like adding more levels before (supposedly) removing them later is that they completely undermine any sense of confidence in the structure, value or integrity of the game.

Dungeons & Dragons players will recognize this syndrome...

You and your friends agree to try a new Dungeon Master you haven't played with before, but who has the latest cool dungeon module to try out. As the game progresses, you notice the DM stops referring to the dungeon module, or even rolling dice. When challenged, he may quickly leaf through a few pages and suddenly start rolling dice for no apparent reason, but it soon falls off as he inevitably drifts away from the mechanics of the game again.

As time passes, the DM becomes more erratic, just making things up out of thin air, telling stories and leading you on, until eventually, out of the blue, randomly (without so much as a die roll) drops a piano on the party, killing everyone instantly.

Game over. Thanks for playing. Goodbye.

This feels like that.

No thanks.