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PVP Update, June 2015

  • Estelee
    I am so excited and thankful, a lot of this looks so well thought out and pvp buffs not working outside pvp is a smart move, a sad one, but smart. Thank you so much for listening to all the feedback! This looks great so far.
    Peace to you Friends.
  • Garion
    Actually the more I think about it I really dislike the battle levelling idea also. Will post about that when I get home though
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  • timidobserver
    Good stuff though I expect to see fewer people's in PvP now that pvers have no reason to participate. Pvers defending their buffs accounts for at least 50% of the activity on some servers.

    The Alliance War skill line abilities are still very useful in PvE though.

    Yes, but no one needs to defend their alliance war skills and it has already been announced that the requirements for those are being nerfed. I expect servers like azura star to die without pvers scrambling to defend their buffs.
    Edited by timidobserver on June 16, 2015 4:07PM
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  • Teiji
    When we fire up the campaign changes, we will wipe your current home\guest assignments.

    Mr Wheeler is the man.

    I've been playing the game since early-access, I have 8 character slots and having to log multiple character to "fix" my home/guest assignments was very unexciting.

    Imperial City update will be great.
    "Serving Boethiah is Freedom, embracing heroism is Liberty, existing solely for noxiphilic sanguivoria is truth." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

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  • Xiphyla
    Time to bail from the game if this changes goes through for the travel to player thingy. GG.
    Edited by Xiphyla on June 16, 2015 4:09PM
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  • driosketch
    Ley wrote: »
    Bfish22090 wrote: »
    This is all great stuff

    ...but when?

    That's not soon enough.

    Seriously though, I like the direction of these changes.
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  • Rook_Master
    Great Changes!

    Good to see some attention being paid to Cyrodiil.
  • LazyLewis
    Also @ZOS_BrianWheeler another issue that has to be addressed is the use of zerg Proximity Detonation in Cyrodiil. One of the issue's is that so many groups try and use so much burst damage like this at once (24 man groups proxying and use some other burst skill + their ultimate will cause lag). I guarantee this causes lag and also us a huge in balance to the game. I remember Eric Wrobel saying that Proxy/Inevitable Det will be used to help split up zergs but now the zergs are using them. Not only are they using them their entire group mechanic revolves around them and especially high sorc groups who just x10 Proxy, streak in and streak out and then rinse and repeat. Please can some sort of Diminishing return self/AEO damage to stop large groups using this be added? When we get bombed by a 24 man poxy group at Peak PvP times we just lag out and no one takes damage for 10 minutes.
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  • c0rp
    I really looking forward to the campaign where the only scores that matter are elder scrolls....I see this being pretty interesting.
    Force weapon swap to have priority over EVERYTHING. Close enough.
    Make stamina builds even with magicka builds.
    Disable abilities while holding block.
    Give us a REASON to do dungeons more than once.
    Remove PVP AoE CAP. It is ruining Cyrodiil.
    Fix/Remove Forward Camps. They are ruining Cyrodiil.
    Impenetrability needs to REDUCE CRIT DAMAGE. Not negate entire builds.
    Werewolf is not equal to Vamps/Bats.
  • c0rp
    Scoring system is a bit off as you could end up with everyone going to the same server if they don't like a certain set of rules.
    It would be more beneficial to change the map style / layout to suit the rule-set of that particular server.

    If servers have no points for keeps / outposts and resources then each faction will only go for the keeps needed to open the scroll gates. So whats the point of the rest of the map ?

    Everything else is spot on though....

    Mobility and protection.

    Force weapon swap to have priority over EVERYTHING. Close enough.
    Make stamina builds even with magicka builds.
    Disable abilities while holding block.
    Give us a REASON to do dungeons more than once.
    Remove PVP AoE CAP. It is ruining Cyrodiil.
    Fix/Remove Forward Camps. They are ruining Cyrodiil.
    Impenetrability needs to REDUCE CRIT DAMAGE. Not negate entire builds.
    Werewolf is not equal to Vamps/Bats.
  • BigTone
    I really like the 150k AP cost to switch campaigns.
    I like removing former emp buffs.
    I LOVE the scoring changes

    Really excited for this.

    The only thing I would recommend is shortening the duration of the longer campaigns, especially for the beginning. All campaigns should be the same duration, say 14 days.
    Edited by BigTone on June 16, 2015 4:21PM
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  • Torquebow
    As I’m sure many of you have noticed, there are far fewer performance problems in non-Veteran campaigns. We have been investigating why non-Veteran campaigns perform better than their Veteran counterparts, and are starting to make some changes based on what we have found. As some of you already know, what we’re seeing is this: there is a point where if too many players are too close together and perform too many AoE and other instant-cast types of spells that server performance starts to degrade.

    We have been saying this for months... and I'm sure you guys have known about it for months. A simple, "That is most likely an issue, we are looking into as we speak." would be fine.


    I don't understand why a lead developer for PvP has had such poor communication with it's player base for so long know. And then when you do post it comes across very negative and condescending. I'm sure you have a ton of things on your plate, but please try and keep at least some sort of open communication with the people who play your game everyday. I've all but stopped playing this game, because I feel like it's in a dead state with absolutely no info coming about anything for months now.

    Having said that, I really like these changes and look forward to patch notes. Thank you for participating in the conversation and please keep us in the loop as we are the people who keep the lights on.

    Also I didn't see anything about a simple option to deselect a current campaign, maybe I just missed it. But this causes some problems with people who have old alts they don't play, or someone who has switched factions to join another guild. It's just a quality of life thing, but it was annoying and I had to end up deleting one of my VR5 alts, just to join a campaign with my current guild.

    Also someone in my guild brought up a good point as well, if your going to make campaign hopping impossible, then you should make the rewards worth while for actually staying and winning a campaign. How you balance this to make sure it doesn't become another type of buff server, where factions camp certain campaigns in order to insure winning them is a delicate matter I guess.
    Edited by Torquebow on June 16, 2015 4:32PM
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  • Zyle

    676 CP
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  • Akrasjel
    Will see
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  • xMovingTarget
    Benawaw89 wrote: »
    my former emperor buff is gone :( i worked so hard to get that emperor. now only RED emperor color left :(

    imo emperor buff isnt a game changing, its a reward for hardwork becoming empeor. imo it should be just there.

    You and me, we used to be together
    Every day together, always
    I really feel that I'm losing my best friend
    I can't believe this could be the end

    It looks as though you're letting go
    And if it's real, well I don't want to know

    Don't cry
    I know just what you're saying
    So please stop explaining
    Don't tell me 'cause it hurts
  • Sotha_Sil
    This is really nice to hear but we have been requesting Zos to disable the jump-to-friend options since launch and it's only coming now ? let's not forget that and please keep listening to the community more closely and act faster !!. Let's hope more changes are coming in terms of gameplay & skills and also in terms of activities in Cyrodiil (hopefully IC will help).
    Edited by Sotha_Sil on June 16, 2015 4:36PM
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  • tinythinker
    Draxys wrote: »
    I'm actually worried that when people can't find action on a campaign and they can't jump to another one, we will have another mass exodus from the game.
    Well, the campaigns are mostly short so picking poorly shouldn't be too much of a burden, but, ZOS could keep campaign hopping open/free for a day for people who haven't been back to Cyro since the changes were made. In other words, let's say these changes start July 1st. I have been out of the game or out of PvP and I am heading in on July 5th. If I could have a day at least to free-hop from campaign to campaign before being locked in, I could make a better choice for home and guest. This could apply to all new people coming into PvP as well in the future. A day pass, if you will, to find your starter home campaign.
    Before posting or commenting:

    1. Remember that other actual living people who make or play this game are reading what you write. Would you really say the same thing to their face with your real life friends and family watching? If you were in a public space with a microphone?
    2. Consider your motivation for what you are typing and the kind of reaction you are aiming for. Are you trying to help someone? Share an idea? Create something fun or start a game? Trying to "look cool" in a junior high kind of way? Something else? If someone else brings their baggage or assumptions to what you write, that is on them. If your goal is to be disrespectful or disruptive, that is on you.
    3. Don't be quick to judge the motivation for what others are writing. Don't assume it is negative or toxic, unless the evidence is overwhelming. It's easy to bring assumptions into things and impute motives that aren't there. It's also easy to be moralistic: judging comments, ideas, and concerns raised by your standards of how other people "ought to be" and by extension the value of their views or suggestions ("If people can't be bothered to X...", "Well, Y was good enough for me...", "Anyone who wants Z is..."). Moralistic judgements are highly flammable -- use sparingly, thoughtfully, and carefully.
    4.Keep in mind that unless we are talking about human rights, life and death, real world hardships, actual fraud or theft, and so on then there isn't a need to get outraged and combative. If you need an outlet for distributing unused "craps" in your life, please check current events in the news and take some positive action to make things better. Give those extra craps to something worthwhile. You don't need to spend that many here.
    5. Don't be annoying. Don't be easily annoyed. This covers #1-#4 and is easier to remember.

    These are meant as reminders for me, but feel free to borrow them for yourself.
  • Gilliamtherogue
    EgoRush wrote: »
    Please tell me you plan on wiping the PvE leaderboards if this is the case. All of the top scores at the moment have only been obtained with the full advantages that PvP buffs provide between massive crit chance amps, base damage amps, and former emp buffs. If you do not wipe the leaderboards, many of those scores will remain unbeatable until players have an absurd amount of champion points to outscale the differences.

    Not all of them. All the EU EP scores at the minute for 12-man trials are with zero buffs. Though the scores are not exactly top place haha. Arena scores of >11.8K were being obtained with zero buffs now though.

    Which is why I mentioned the CP gains. Most top EU players have a disturbingly large advantage of CP over NA players. All of NA's top time(s) is/are done with full, or close to full pvp buffs.
    Edited by Gilliamtherogue on June 16, 2015 4:35PM
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  • k1llorbek1lled
    Vynn wrote: »
    I agree with a good portion of the changes listed here. But I think removing former employee passive buffs is a spit in the face of people who earned it. I used vacation time to take off during a server reset, spent 14 hours straight grinding AP to get ahead of the competition and push for the Emp keeps. No one handed it to me, people don't care if you are pushing for it, your whole faction doesn't try to help you(some did, others were verbally abusive about opposing my pushing for it). Emp trading is definitely a problem, but spitting in the face of your player base is not how you go about fixing it. These passives are not ruining pvp. The only people that whine about them are people who don't take the time and put in the effort to get them. I have continued supporting ESO through my subscription because I see the room for improvement on a fun game. But taking away things that have been earned will only confirm for me that Zenimax doesn't care about loyal fans, and my subscription will end as I will not support my time and effort being dismissed.

    Well said... read this Brian Wheeler, because it's how I feel toooo.....
    stop the zerging
    As I’m sure many of you have noticed, there are far fewer performance problems in non-Veteran campaigns. We have been investigating why non-Veteran campaigns perform better than their Veteran counterparts, and are starting to make some changes based on what we have found. As some of you already know, what we’re seeing is this: there is a point where if too many players are too close together and perform too many AoE and other instant-cast types of spells that server performance starts to degrade. As lower level characters don’t have many of these types of spells, non-Veteran campaigns generally don’t run into this trouble.

    As such, the combat team is currently making adjustments to line-of-sight checks for area-of-effect abilities that have been causing the majority of server congestion in Cyrodiil. This has resulted in us taking a close look at higher level abilities/items to root out line-of-sight checks and other potential client-to-server message overflow issues.

    So you guys are looking to make changes to make the code smarter here - that is good. Youve asked players to "spread out" in the past to alleviate stress. What is the chances that youre actually looking to change the 'blobing' mentality in cyro? Many players are being forced to jump inside these large groups to spam heals in an effort to fight against those doing the same thing during lag. Heals go through during lag, damage, not so much.

    This is really your *biggest* issue impacting performance in the game. You cant force players to not play in this style - but currently youre offering no incentives not to play like this. The big question is why? You added detonation to deter this type of stuff. Instead, youve given these groups a new tool to use together.

    Simple solution to fix many of your problems: change detonation to scale off players hit. Deter players from grouping up. Siege is not enough, especially with purge functioning the way it is currently. Players spam purge and make the lag that much worse.

    The answers are in this post, and all over the forums. The question is, are you actually going to push for a solution anytime in the near future on this? Otherwise, were just waiting for you guys to make the most effecient netcode on your side, and then youre tackling the complaints that cyrodiil has nothing but 24+ raid groups, which leads to 2 24+ raid groups to fight better single 24ppl groups. Ultimately, youre not offering the smaller player base much of an option.

    Its clear youve tried to make changes to deter these issues (aoe caps being partially removed) - but partial is a complete miss. Siege hits a group like no player skill can ever dream of. This is because of the built in 50/75% mitigation youve allowed. If youre not going to fix caps properly, you need to add skills that counter large groups in one location. Because siege alone isnt always enough.

    Really hope this gets a thorough response. The other changes are pretty good as well. Dont know how smart it is to lump multiple changes together to try to get a 'feel' for it. One at a time (the same as balance should be done) - rather than lump patches.
  • AhPook_Is_Here

    It's all fine but why not remove guesting completely? If you did that you could blow-up at least one vet server. Now that buff campaigns are dead do we really need 4 empty servers with one decent pop one at prime-time and one lower-pop but active with 2 still empty? I'd much rather have 2 less vet servers than we have now, at least one less. Guesting is just a mess anyway because of the way the marker prevents you from moving characters around to campaigns you want to be present it. Since the home server reset I haven't picked a home server on any character just to avoid *** up the guest markers. At least give an option to clear them if you are going to leave them in the game.
    -Unknown American
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