PVP Update, June 2015

Publius_Scipio

WRX wrote: »

-Lastly is the Emp passives. I would very much like them to stay personally. If you farmed it, honestly, who cares? Mechanic was bad, but so were/are CP grinds, duping, bots farming mats, and all the other issues so far. If you farmed emp, you are likely a bad player anyways so you will still die. This seems to be more of a PR stunt and appealing to the casual (I understand, a fish has to swim though) and is kind of a punishment to players who have PvP'd. Its a buff you earn with passives, just like mages and fighters guild, legermaine (sp) and many others.

You aren't wrong in a sense to want to keep the emp passives, but emp farming is rampant and I think almost all can agree it hurts ESO PvP. A solution is needed for the greater good.

Former emp passives should have never existed to begin with in my opinion. Being emp makes you the most powerful person on the battlefield. When you are dethroned, why would you have any residual powers if you aren't emperor anymore?

Being emperor is the incentive to work towards becoming emperor. Being emperor is the incentive to staying emperor.

ScruffyWhiskers

Maybe somebody suggested this but what about adding some dynamic control points to the map that spawn at random locations in less traveled areas and at random times. Make it visible to everyone on the map. Maybe a shrine with NPC monks/guards. If a faction captures it and occupies it for a set time period, they get a temporary buff like the Ayleid health bonus etc. You might be able to get some nice pitched battles or king of the hill battles going.

aco5712

if they fix the lag then you dont need to run away from the lag? problem solved @WRX ?

frozywozy

cjthibs wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

The Former Emp buffs cause behavior inimical to the long-term growth of PvP. Removing them sucks for those players who stayed up for two days straight to achieve it, but it's frankly more important that ZOS do everything they can think of to improve the experience for everyone. And the vast majority of everyone is not former emps, or future former emps.

Right on.
Not to mention the elitist mentality that is cultivated by all of these people who brag about it.

I do respect the amount of effort that goes into it, but the attitudes some of these folks display really isn't helpful or even remotely enjoyable to deal with. Perhaps if some of the incentive to mindlessly grind away to get Emp is removed this will be less of an issue.

Actually, I never understood why some people spent nights awake without any sleep at all to get emperor. I got emperor because I was persistent, not because I skipped sleep for days straight. Plus, emperorship should be given to people who care for their faction and the scoreboard, not to people who either :

- solo gank transit lines and get 820AP for each kill for 10hours straight;
- tower farm an enemy ressource while their scrolls are being taken;
- would rather defend the last emp keep rather than protecting their own scrolls.

Wake up people, this is The Elder Scrolls Online, not The Elder Emperor Online.

WRX

Xsorus wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

After reading this I am torn. I love hearing what you are actively investigating for lag, etc, so that is good news. However there are some things I am concerned about.

-No PvE buffs then mean no PvEr's to fight in Cyrodiil. Computer's population is already extremely low, and this lowers it further. Need some reason for them to come play again.

-The no travel option to me is the biggest issue however. With the current state of PvP, and I am not joking, the first 30 minutes is always the group going to the few active campaigns and trying to find the most fun fights WITHOUT LAG.

If I can not travel out of a campaign on a Saturday when its a laggy mess, I know myself and 80% of Decibel will simply go play something else. This will be a major issue as fighting with lag every 10-15 minutes really hurts the flow of a team.

-Lastly is the Emp passives. I would very much like them to stay personally. If you farmed it, honestly, who cares? Mechanic was bad, but so were/are CP grinds, duping, bots farming mats, and all the other issues so far. If you farmed emp, you are likely a bad player anyways so you will still die. This seems to be more of a PR stunt and appealing to the casual (I understand, a fish has to swim though) and is kind of a punishment to players who have PvP'd. Its a buff you earn with passives, just like mages and fighters guild, legermaine (sp) and many others.


I am mostly excited that you guys are fulfilling your promise and are now back to working on PvP and PC. Just hope some of this feedback is taken into consideration, even though I know this is likely locked in.

Its possible that because it'll be harder to travel you might be able to avoid lag a lot easier, right now those groups just port around following the people escaping the lag.

That is actually pretty nice. Often times we will ask EP guilds to come with us to other servers in order to get good fights. The new way to do this will be to stack all your guilds on one server to ensure you don't get ran stuck on an all red/blue campaign, and then guest another campaign.

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

-Lastly is the Emp passives. I would very much like them to stay personally. If you farmed it, honestly, who cares? Mechanic was bad, but so were/are CP grinds, duping, bots farming mats, and all the other issues so far. If you farmed emp, you are likely a bad player anyways so you will still die. This seems to be more of a PR stunt and appealing to the casual (I understand, a fish has to swim though) and is kind of a punishment to players who have PvP'd. Its a buff you earn with passives, just like mages and fighters guild, legermaine (sp) and many others.

You aren't wrong in a sense to want to keep the emp passives, but emp farming is rampant and I think almost all can agree it hurts ESO PvP. A solution is needed for the greater good.

Former emp passives should have never existed to begin with in my opinion. Being emp makes you the most powerful person on the battlefield. When you are dethroned, why would you have any residual powers if you aren't emperor anymore?

Being emperor is the incentive to work towards becoming emperor. Being emperor is the incentive to staying emperor.

I fail to see how it in anyway hurts PvP in ESO? Its a very minor advantage, that the good players know how to properly build around and use. Bad players are bad, nothing changes that. Now there are the whiners who say "All these former emp's, etc are why I am losing" but I promise that is not why you are dead. Less complaining from them will be nice.

aco5712 wrote: »

if they fix the lag then you dont need to run away from the lag? problem solved @WRX ?

Well of course haha, but Im being a little reserved in saying that they will fix the lag when this change happens. I'd venture to say it'll be 12+ months before this current PvP is fixed. Give it a few months for these 1000's of console players to get AoE stacking and then we will see some real traction.

Zheg

frozywozy wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

The Former Emp buffs cause behavior inimical to the long-term growth of PvP. Removing them sucks for those players who stayed up for two days straight to achieve it, but it's frankly more important that ZOS do everything they can think of to improve the experience for everyone. And the vast majority of everyone is not former emps, or future former emps.

Right on.
Not to mention the elitist mentality that is cultivated by all of these people who brag about it.

I do respect the amount of effort that goes into it, but the attitudes some of these folks display really isn't helpful or even remotely enjoyable to deal with. Perhaps if some of the incentive to mindlessly grind away to get Emp is removed this will be less of an issue.

Actually, I never understood why some people spent nights awake without any sleep at all to get emperor. I got emperor because I was persistent, not because I skipped sleep for days straight. Plus, emperorship should be given to people who care for their faction and the scoreboard, not to people who either :

- solo gank transit lines and get 820AP for each kill for 10hours straight;
- tower farm an enemy ressource while their scrolls are being taken;
- would rather defend the last emp keep rather than protecting their own scrolls.

Wake up people, this is The Elder Scrolls Online, not The Elder Emperor Online.

Agree with just about everything you said except your last point. The scrolls are useless, I'd MUCH rather have the hp from emp bonus than some stupid scroll that someone is just going to troll farm AP with. It makes me /facepalm every time seeing someone in /zone suggest that we go after a scroll or try to get our scrolls back before we even have our home keeps, but that's DC for ya.

On a side note, hopefully @ZOS_BrianWheeler is starting to notice the good that comes from actually being present on the forums and keeping players in the loop. Can you remember a time when you received that many thanks? My guess is it's been a while on these forums. I find it to be a catch-22 because something is FINALLY being done and I want to support that and reinforce it with kind words, but on the other hand what was talked about in the OP are things that should be been implemented 6, 9, 14 months ago -_- . My bitter feelings aside, please DO turn over a new leaf and post at least monthly with substantive info, it's really a bare minimum to be asking for.

frozywozy

Makkir wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Just to clarify, you will keep the Emperor Dye and "former emperor" titles.

I did not spend three days with just a couple hours sleep to get dye or titles, I did it for the passives and the satisfaction of achieving it. Working hard to see the inherit gain by dismissing something like this as a 'solution' to anything currently impacting the game play in cyro.

But, I will keep reading the 'supporters' comments to see if I have missed just what this does to help mechanics of the game that have not been addressed over time and led to abuse and exploiting. Much higher on my list of things to do, but maybe that is just me...

All the other changes seem to be directly connected to issues that impact games current state and I can clearly see where you are going with them, great job at listening to some of the concerns with PvP players in the game.

And that is why it's being changed. The whole concept was the Emperor played a critical role for his/her faction (this would ideally be someone who is online a lot and actually contributing to Cyrodiil being AvA type of action...not a min/max'er who is solo farming or repairing walls just to grab a few extra % in stats).

New system will help factions because hopefully Emperor will actually be around long enough to actually contribute to his/her faction. It really sucks when your faction's Emperor is finally crowned then runs off to do 1vX videos or logs out for the night.

You forgot the part where said candidate to emperorship is being rewarded the ENTIRE defense tick after his group runned away from the defended location after a large farm. This has been noticed lately on Chillrend for some EP guilds that we won't mention the name of. Very competitive and very representative of what an emperor should be, right?

Makkir

WRX wrote: »

After reading this I am torn. I love hearing what you are actively investigating for lag, etc, so that is good news. However there are some things I am concerned about.

-No PvE buffs then mean no PvEr's to fight in Cyrodiil. Computer's population is already extremely low, and this lowers it further. Need some reason for them to come play again.

-The no travel option to me is the biggest issue however. With the current state of PvP, and I am not joking, the first 30 minutes is always the group going to the few active campaigns and trying to find the most fun fights WITHOUT LAG.

If I can not travel out of a campaign on a Saturday when its a laggy mess, I know myself and 80% of Decibel will simply go play something else. This will be a major issue as fighting with lag every 10-15 minutes really hurts the flow of a team.

-Lastly is the Emp passives. I would very much like them to stay personally. If you farmed it, honestly, who cares? Mechanic was bad, but so were/are CP grinds, duping, bots farming mats, and all the other issues so far. If you farmed emp, you are likely a bad player anyways so you will still die. This seems to be more of a PR stunt and appealing to the casual (I understand, a fish has to swim though) and is kind of a punishment to players who have PvP'd. Its a buff you earn with passives, just like mages and fighters guild, legermaine (sp) and many others.

.

Lol,

You realize the spamming zerg ball you run is creating the lag you complain about, right? New system will likely keep players grounded to their chosen campaign, which means you can't continually run to campaigns you outnumber for easy wins. The one thing guild leaders will need to do is work on communication among each other to make sure they end up on the right campaigns together.

And I don't know what you are talking about in regards to your last comment. The proposed changes to Emp seem more like a deterrence to casuals not an appeal. An appeal to casuals would be dumbing content down and making it easier to obtain Emp...you'll see more competition now to obtain Emp in order for a player to maintain his Emp powers which means casuals probably don't have a good shot at it now (which they shouldn't, imo).

Publius_Scipio

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

-Lastly is the Emp passives. I would very much like them to stay personally. If you farmed it, honestly, who cares? Mechanic was bad, but so were/are CP grinds, duping, bots farming mats, and all the other issues so far. If you farmed emp, you are likely a bad player anyways so you will still die. This seems to be more of a PR stunt and appealing to the casual (I understand, a fish has to swim though) and is kind of a punishment to players who have PvP'd. Its a buff you earn with passives, just like mages and fighters guild, legermaine (sp) and many others.

You aren't wrong in a sense to want to keep the emp passives, but emp farming is rampant and I think almost all can agree it hurts ESO PvP. A solution is needed for the greater good.

Former emp passives should have never existed to begin with in my opinion. Being emp makes you the most powerful person on the battlefield. When you are dethroned, why would you have any residual powers if you aren't emperor anymore?

Being emperor is the incentive to work towards becoming emperor. Being emperor is the incentive to staying emperor.

I fail to see how it in anyway hurts PvP in ESO? Its a very minor advantage, that the good players know how to properly build around and use. Bad players are bad, nothing changes that. Now there are the whiners who say "All these former emp's, etc is why I am losing" but I promise that is not why you are dead. Less complaining from them will be nice.

I don't know who has been complaining about deaths in Cyrodiil. It hurts ESO because being emperor was created to be something very special. Emp farming is utterly stupid and has at times (if not all the time) ruined whole campaigns. You should have the powers of an emperor if you are an emperor. Why would you carry powers with you afterwards when you aren't one anymore?

When you are no longer emperor you should rightfully carry the title of Former Emperor with you. Not any powers bestowed upon you because you were ONCE an emperor but no longer are.

Shuichi

Every single one of these proposed changes is great. As long as former emperor titles are not taken away there should be no reason players complain. It will be impossible for nearly 90% if not more players to reign as emperor, we should not punish them for not being able to farm endless amounts of AP.

WRX

Makkir wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

After reading this I am torn. I love hearing what you are actively investigating for lag, etc, so that is good news. However there are some things I am concerned about.

-No PvE buffs then mean no PvEr's to fight in Cyrodiil. Computer's population is already extremely low, and this lowers it further. Need some reason for them to come play again.

-The no travel option to me is the biggest issue however. With the current state of PvP, and I am not joking, the first 30 minutes is always the group going to the few active campaigns and trying to find the most fun fights WITHOUT LAG.

If I can not travel out of a campaign on a Saturday when its a laggy mess, I know myself and 80% of Decibel will simply go play something else. This will be a major issue as fighting with lag every 10-15 minutes really hurts the flow of a team.

-Lastly is the Emp passives. I would very much like them to stay personally. If you farmed it, honestly, who cares? Mechanic was bad, but so were/are CP grinds, duping, bots farming mats, and all the other issues so far. If you farmed emp, you are likely a bad player anyways so you will still die. This seems to be more of a PR stunt and appealing to the casual (I understand, a fish has to swim though) and is kind of a punishment to players who have PvP'd. Its a buff you earn with passives, just like mages and fighters guild, legermaine (sp) and many others.

.

Lol,

You realize the spamming zerg ball you run is creating the lag you complain about, right? New system will likely keep players grounded to their chosen campaign, which means you can't continually run to campaigns you outnumber for easy wins. The one thing guild leaders will need to do is work on communication among each other to make sure they end up on the right campaigns together.

And I don't know what you are talking about in regards to your last comment. The proposed changes to Emp seem more like a deterrence to casuals not an appeal. An appeal to casuals would be dumbing content down and making it easier to obtain Emp...you'll see more competition now to obtain Emp in order for a player to maintain his Emp powers which means casuals probably don't have a good shot at it now (which they shouldn't, imo).

My "zergball" is constantly running smaller groups than essentially all our competition. Roughly 2 times a week we will go over that. No clue what group you run with or if you are a solo player, but Deci avoids lag at any cost.

And no, this is catering to the people that think the emperor passive is the reason they are losing, when it really has nothing to do with it. I am all for helping the health of the game though.

Rylana

WRX wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

After reading this I am torn. I love hearing what you are actively investigating for lag, etc, so that is good news. However there are some things I am concerned about.

-No PvE buffs then mean no PvEr's to fight in Cyrodiil. Computer's population is already extremely low, and this lowers it further. Need some reason for them to come play again.

-The no travel option to me is the biggest issue however. With the current state of PvP, and I am not joking, the first 30 minutes is always the group going to the few active campaigns and trying to find the most fun fights WITHOUT LAG.

If I can not travel out of a campaign on a Saturday when its a laggy mess, I know myself and 80% of Decibel will simply go play something else. This will be a major issue as fighting with lag every 10-15 minutes really hurts the flow of a team.

-Lastly is the Emp passives. I would very much like them to stay personally. If you farmed it, honestly, who cares? Mechanic was bad, but so were/are CP grinds, duping, bots farming mats, and all the other issues so far. If you farmed emp, you are likely a bad player anyways so you will still die. This seems to be more of a PR stunt and appealing to the casual (I understand, a fish has to swim though) and is kind of a punishment to players who have PvP'd. Its a buff you earn with passives, just like mages and fighters guild, legermaine (sp) and many others.

.

Lol,

You realize the spamming zerg ball you run is creating the lag you complain about, right? New system will likely keep players grounded to their chosen campaign, which means you can't continually run to campaigns you outnumber for easy wins. The one thing guild leaders will need to do is work on communication among each other to make sure they end up on the right campaigns together.

And I don't know what you are talking about in regards to your last comment. The proposed changes to Emp seem more like a deterrence to casuals not an appeal. An appeal to casuals would be dumbing content down and making it easier to obtain Emp...you'll see more competition now to obtain Emp in order for a player to maintain his Emp powers which means casuals probably don't have a good shot at it now (which they shouldn't, imo).

And no, this is catering to the people that think the emperor passive is the reason they are losing, when it really has nothing to do with it.

Just gonna comment on this part, even though i disagree with removing former emp buffs.

This isnt why people feel vindicated by the removal, it is because certain guilds that transition map to map and ruin the leaderboards so they can crown 2, 3, 4 new emps for their core group that then are never seen on that campaign again, depriving the LEGITIMATE players of that campaign their rightful emp while the other group leaves it and doesnt even defend the map.

There was a red guild doing this on Haderus just last week, so it isnt just directed at anyone particularly. The race to crown dozens of emps (while worst on Celarus) has really detracted from the point of the AvAvA system. How many times have people been up at bleaks farming AP to get their guildie to number 1 instead of defended Faregyl, for example. I know youve done it, Ive done it, most of us have.

Some people genuinely believe the AP/emp farming guilds are the scourge of cyrodiil because they dont actually play the map, and that is why people get so uppity when removing emp buffs is talked about. That and a touch of jealousy I reckon, but they arent blaming the passives for them losing.

While I dont support the removal, I do fully blame the AP/Emp farming transient guilds for causing this. Perhaps now they will realize their mistake, we all lose out because these elitist guilds decided only their members can ever be emperor, and they abused it to no end.

Publius_Scipio

WRX wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

After reading this I am torn. I love hearing what you are actively investigating for lag, etc, so that is good news. However there are some things I am concerned about.

-No PvE buffs then mean no PvEr's to fight in Cyrodiil. Computer's population is already extremely low, and this lowers it further. Need some reason for them to come play again.

-The no travel option to me is the biggest issue however. With the current state of PvP, and I am not joking, the first 30 minutes is always the group going to the few active campaigns and trying to find the most fun fights WITHOUT LAG.

If I can not travel out of a campaign on a Saturday when its a laggy mess, I know myself and 80% of Decibel will simply go play something else. This will be a major issue as fighting with lag every 10-15 minutes really hurts the flow of a team.

-Lastly is the Emp passives. I would very much like them to stay personally. If you farmed it, honestly, who cares? Mechanic was bad, but so were/are CP grinds, duping, bots farming mats, and all the other issues so far. If you farmed emp, you are likely a bad player anyways so you will still die. This seems to be more of a PR stunt and appealing to the casual (I understand, a fish has to swim though) and is kind of a punishment to players who have PvP'd. Its a buff you earn with passives, just like mages and fighters guild, legermaine (sp) and many others.

.

Lol,

You realize the spamming zerg ball you run is creating the lag you complain about, right? New system will likely keep players grounded to their chosen campaign, which means you can't continually run to campaigns you outnumber for easy wins. The one thing guild leaders will need to do is work on communication among each other to make sure they end up on the right campaigns together.

And I don't know what you are talking about in regards to your last comment. The proposed changes to Emp seem more like a deterrence to casuals not an appeal. An appeal to casuals would be dumbing content down and making it easier to obtain Emp...you'll see more competition now to obtain Emp in order for a player to maintain his Emp powers which means casuals probably don't have a good shot at it now (which they shouldn't, imo).

My "zergball" is constantly running smaller groups than essentially all our competition. Roughly 2 times a week we will go over that. No clue what group you run with or if you are a solo player, but Deci avoids lag at any cost.

And no, this is catering to the people that think the emperor passive is the reason they are losing, when it really has nothing to do with it. I am all for helping the health of the game though.

Someone who is no longer emperor should not have emperor buffs. You want the power of being emperor? You become one and you stay one. That's what would make being emperor really special.

Since it's late I will get cheesey. Bruce Banner doesn't have any Hulk passives when he isn't the Hulk. He is just Bruce Banner. The Hulk gets all the skills and passives. Then it goes away.

Rylana

frozywozy wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Just to clarify, you will keep the Emperor Dye and "former emperor" titles.

I did not spend three days with just a couple hours sleep to get dye or titles, I did it for the passives and the satisfaction of achieving it. Working hard to see the inherit gain by dismissing something like this as a 'solution' to anything currently impacting the game play in cyro.

But, I will keep reading the 'supporters' comments to see if I have missed just what this does to help mechanics of the game that have not been addressed over time and led to abuse and exploiting. Much higher on my list of things to do, but maybe that is just me...

All the other changes seem to be directly connected to issues that impact games current state and I can clearly see where you are going with them, great job at listening to some of the concerns with PvP players in the game.

And that is why it's being changed. The whole concept was the Emperor played a critical role for his/her faction (this would ideally be someone who is online a lot and actually contributing to Cyrodiil being AvA type of action...not a min/max'er who is solo farming or repairing walls just to grab a few extra % in stats).

New system will help factions because hopefully Emperor will actually be around long enough to actually contribute to his/her faction. It really sucks when your faction's Emperor is finally crowned then runs off to do 1vX videos or logs out for the night.

You forgot the part where said candidate to emperorship is being rewarded the ENTIRE defense tick after his group runned away from the defended location after a large farm. This has been noticed lately on Chillrend for some EP guilds that we won't mention the name of. Very competitive and very representative of what an emperor should be, right?

That was always how it was done in the big name guilds. People say they "farm alts" but thats never the case, they farm bads and pugs and then leave their anointed one to get the 30k defense tick at nikel/bleakers/glade mine/wherever.

Hell it happened to ME on blackwater just two months ago. I was legitimately ahead on my AD baby sorc, and a bleakers farm turned into super-tick negated my 50k point lead in one shot.

Its a damn shame, too. (especially that this garbage has even infested the non-vet)

Jakeol

I'd like to see changes to place more of an emphasis on focusing on winning a campaign rather than farming AP. As it stands right now the players with the most time available to them are the ones who get end of campaign rewards such as gold master's weapons/set pieces (having high AP earned isn't necessarily a good indication that a player contributed towards taking objectives, thus contributing to score (gankers are a prime example, they do still have their role though)).

With only the top 2% of a faction getting these rewards at the end of the campaign, players with less time available to play or players that prefer to be in smaller groups away from the zerg (such as attacking remote locations, which should be encouraged to some degree) are penalized.

Since the current rewards system rewards the players who farmed the most AP on their faction (regardless of how their faction performed) and the gold (currency) for the winning faction is trivial, why not expand on the current system? For instance, the winning faction and faction that comes in 2nd could have that 2% cutoff expanded significantly, such as maybe 20% for the winning faction, 10-15% for the faction that comes in second, and the last faction getting anywhere from 5-10%. (I believe even if you lose the current rewards system should be more inclusive and that 2% cutoff should be higher, but with more incentive to win). You can also have a low pop faction get a bonus to this cutoff, promote players to fight for a faction that is outnumbered. This 100% needs to happen. Again, the gold is trivial at the end of campaign rewards, the system needs expanding on to rewards more players to incentivize participation to more people than those who just are able to play 8-16 hours everyday.

Also the gold currency rewards just needs to be done away this in its current incarnation, i'd also like to see a fat chunk of AP (several hundred thousand for a month long campaign) awarded to winning factions.

Woman

Rylana wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

I don't understand some of you. You keep complaining about ZOS "taking things away" from PvP and that its not a solution to all the problems, you essentially (if i am to understand correctly) say that its a "cop-out". Let's break this all down nice and simple.

ESO is a little over a year old. ZOS had ideas, developed the game, and released it. There have been many issues, headaches, the game working not in a way ZOS intended, etc. So now they are going to do things to smooth things out and (hopefully) ultimately increase the fun factor for all.

"Fixing" the game REQUIRES "taking away" what didn't work (i.e. emp farming and former emp buffs to name one).

I don't see one thing in Brian Wheeler's post that would lead to some players having an advantage over others. Sounds like much needed tweaks to PvP that leaves everyone on a level playing field. Again, it seems like some are complaining because they can't let go of former emp buffs and enjoy playing in the new era of ESO PvP.

I think those of us that feel the strongest about out former emp buffs are the ones that didnt celarus or buff server farm them.

the legit emps shouldnt lose even the little bonuses we have just because a bunch of pve carebears farmed emp on celarus for trials

at the end of the day people use the two arguments, i will address them both

1. The former emp bonuses are too powerful and no one should have such an advantage
I disagree, they individually are not much, the undaunted passives are actually stronger, except perhaps the ulti cost reduction one, which is somewhat significant, it is equivalent to 1/3 of the potentates or dragonguard set bonus. Not dismissable but not a huge advantage. However a whole group of former emperors does have a pretty significant advantage, due to having that much more ultimate to dump consistently.

2. The former emp bonuses are so weak you wont miss them then
I disagree, some players have crafted long standing builds and setups incorporating those bonuses into them. This would be akin to basing a setup min/max around say picking a certain racial bonus set or getting rank 9 undaunted, and then losing either one of those.



So to put this all into perspective how I feel.

I got emp legitimately, and now am going to lose my passives I earned. Whether they are too powerful or meager, it is still a net loss for doing nothing wrong (in fact i did it right, considering i was an emperor)

It would be no different than ZOS coming in tomorrow and saying "we are removing the undaunted passives because we feel that will balance trials and dungeons"

if the shoe was on the other foot, these casuals being snarky in this thread would be in an absolute uproar (instead of just sounding like a bunch of crybabies that could never get emp, now feeling like they are sticking it to those who were)

I couldn't have said it better myself. Thanks for standing up for us

Makkir

I think people should stop sticking the label "casuals" on others like it's a bad thing to play a video game in moderation. That's almost like arguing who has the bigger "no life."

Rylana

Makkir wrote: »

I think people should stop sticking the label "casuals" on others like it's a bad thing to play a video game in moderation. That's almost like arguing who has the bigger "no life."

Casuals: People who are in Cyrodiil to do anything other than PvP, or only come to Cyrodiil to defend buff server status.

I use it in a very specific derogatory sense. Not in the sense of "casual gamer"

Jakeol

Campaign Hopping: 1 Home campaign and 1 Guest campaign, removing the ability to travel to friends/guildmates. While I imagine this was initially for convenience other players have clearly abused this system, 'zerg bombing' campaigns to farm their guildmates emp on a camp that just reset, never to be seen again after that cycle, so I can see the need for this change.

Another consideration is underdog factions, certain low pop factions tend to try to avoid being completely overwhelmed and jump ship the moment the going gets tough. This change will force low pop factions to stay where they are, and if they decide to move somewhere else, it prevents from larger factions to easily follow them. In the longterm it should make it so every is somewhere where it feels right.

Former emp bonuses going away: I am for this change, the bonuses are so insignificant I wouldn't miss them (having the extra skillpoints is nice too). I know a lot of players legitimately fought hard for their emperorships, but the bonus is so trivial.

DezIsDead

I'm with ole WRX on he travel to player thing. Mostly because I homed really silly campaigns on my DC, and no DC fights in those campaigns. If I can't travel to someone to actually get fights, then *** it I'll keep playing Tera.i get people feel some were abusing it to grief servers, but let's be honest that was a minority, and the majority shouldn't have to suffer a fix or change for the minority. But idk maybe the majority is in board with it. Hope the lag gets fixed, maybe ill figure a work around to get my AD and DC into campaigns with decent fights for both sides. Until then m8's

Makkir

Rylana wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

I think people should stop sticking the label "casuals" on others like it's a bad thing to play a video game in moderation. That's almost like arguing who has the bigger "no life."

Casuals: People who are in Cyrodiil to do anything other than PvP, or only come to Cyrodiil to defend buff server status.

I use it in a very specific derogatory sense. Not in the sense of "casual gamer"

Ah...ok.
I thought the MMO community used the word "carebears" for that group. Casual seems to me either a way you dress or a measure of time.

Rust_in_Peace

Too little, too late.

vortexman11

Jakeol wrote: »

Campaign Hopping: 1 Home campaign and 1 Guest campaign, removing the ability to travel to friends/guildmates. While I imagine this was initially for convenience other players have clearly abused this system, 'zerg bombing' campaigns to farm their guildmates emp on a camp that just reset, never to be seen again after that cycle, so I can see the need for this change.

Another consideration is underdog factions, certain low pop factions tend to try to avoid being completely overwhelmed and jump ship the moment the going gets tough. This change will force low pop factions to stay where they are, and if they decide to move somewhere else, it prevents from larger factions to easily follow them. In the longterm it should make it so every is somewhere where it feels right.

Former emp bonuses going away: I am for this change, the bonuses are so insignificant I wouldn't miss them (having the extra skillpoints is nice too). I know a lot of players legitimately fought hard for their emperorships, but the bonus is so trivial.

Its not trivial Jaqqe, you'd be surprised how much that 5% ultimate cost reduction helps, especially now that they raised the cost of my main ultimate to 250 (its almost as if they're forcing me to use meteor! A cheaper alternative that does more damage). Nevertheless, I'm not going to argue against this forum post because everything is most likely set in stone.

vortexman11

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

After reading this I am torn. I love hearing what you are actively investigating for lag, etc, so that is good news. However there are some things I am concerned about.

-No PvE buffs then mean no PvEr's to fight in Cyrodiil. Computer's population is already extremely low, and this lowers it further. Need some reason for them to come play again.

-The no travel option to me is the biggest issue however. With the current state of PvP, and I am not joking, the first 30 minutes is always the group going to the few active campaigns and trying to find the most fun fights WITHOUT LAG.

If I can not travel out of a campaign on a Saturday when its a laggy mess, I know myself and 80% of Decibel will simply go play something else. This will be a major issue as fighting with lag every 10-15 minutes really hurts the flow of a team.

-Lastly is the Emp passives. I would very much like them to stay personally. If you farmed it, honestly, who cares? Mechanic was bad, but so were/are CP grinds, duping, bots farming mats, and all the other issues so far. If you farmed emp, you are likely a bad player anyways so you will still die. This seems to be more of a PR stunt and appealing to the casual (I understand, a fish has to swim though) and is kind of a punishment to players who have PvP'd. Its a buff you earn with passives, just like mages and fighters guild, legermaine (sp) and many others.

.

Lol,

You realize the spamming zerg ball you run is creating the lag you complain about, right? New system will likely keep players grounded to their chosen campaign, which means you can't continually run to campaigns you outnumber for easy wins. The one thing guild leaders will need to do is work on communication among each other to make sure they end up on the right campaigns together.

And I don't know what you are talking about in regards to your last comment. The proposed changes to Emp seem more like a deterrence to casuals not an appeal. An appeal to casuals would be dumbing content down and making it easier to obtain Emp...you'll see more competition now to obtain Emp in order for a player to maintain his Emp powers which means casuals probably don't have a good shot at it now (which they shouldn't, imo).

My "zergball" is constantly running smaller groups than essentially all our competition. Roughly 2 times a week we will go over that. No clue what group you run with or if you are a solo player, but Deci avoids lag at any cost.

And no, this is catering to the people that think the emperor passive is the reason they are losing, when it really has nothing to do with it. I am all for helping the health of the game though.

Someone who is no longer emperor should not have emperor buffs. You want the power of being emperor? You become one and you stay one. That's what would make being emperor really special.

Since it's late I will get cheesey. Bruce Banner doesn't have any Hulk passives when he isn't the Hulk. He is just Bruce Banner. The Hulk gets all the skills and passives. Then it goes away.

Please don't tempt WRX into being one of those 50 day emperors... It wouldn't be fun for any of us

Garethjolnir

Everything in this patch sounds amazing. Can't wait for it to be implemented.

Legedric

I assume "June 2015" is only the time of the state of these plans, right?
So when will we see any of this?

Cormore

why would they remove former emp buffs? I spent days working my butt off for that just to have and so glad i got it done. If they get rid of it then it will be all for nothing and that's messed [snip] up

[edited for profanity bypass]

Xsorus

WRX wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

After reading this I am torn. I love hearing what you are actively investigating for lag, etc, so that is good news. However there are some things I am concerned about.

-No PvE buffs then mean no PvEr's to fight in Cyrodiil. Computer's population is already extremely low, and this lowers it further. Need some reason for them to come play again.

-The no travel option to me is the biggest issue however. With the current state of PvP, and I am not joking, the first 30 minutes is always the group going to the few active campaigns and trying to find the most fun fights WITHOUT LAG.

If I can not travel out of a campaign on a Saturday when its a laggy mess, I know myself and 80% of Decibel will simply go play something else. This will be a major issue as fighting with lag every 10-15 minutes really hurts the flow of a team.

-Lastly is the Emp passives. I would very much like them to stay personally. If you farmed it, honestly, who cares? Mechanic was bad, but so were/are CP grinds, duping, bots farming mats, and all the other issues so far. If you farmed emp, you are likely a bad player anyways so you will still die. This seems to be more of a PR stunt and appealing to the casual (I understand, a fish has to swim though) and is kind of a punishment to players who have PvP'd. Its a buff you earn with passives, just like mages and fighters guild, legermaine (sp) and many others.

.

Lol,

You realize the spamming zerg ball you run is creating the lag you complain about, right? New system will likely keep players grounded to their chosen campaign, which means you can't continually run to campaigns you outnumber for easy wins. The one thing guild leaders will need to do is work on communication among each other to make sure they end up on the right campaigns together.

And I don't know what you are talking about in regards to your last comment. The proposed changes to Emp seem more like a deterrence to casuals not an appeal. An appeal to casuals would be dumbing content down and making it easier to obtain Emp...you'll see more competition now to obtain Emp in order for a player to maintain his Emp powers which means casuals probably don't have a good shot at it now (which they shouldn't, imo).

My "zergball" is constantly running smaller groups than essentially all our competition. Roughly 2 times a week we will go over that. No clue what group you run with or if you are a solo player, but Deci avoids lag at any cost.

And no, this is catering to the people that think the emperor passive is the reason they are losing, when it really has nothing to do with it. I am all for helping the health of the game though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoU5jqjdrmU

Here is a video of you guys running 24...and you + VE are lagging the game out

This is exactly what a lot of us want to avoid when we leave servers...Because that type of gameplay lags the servers

WRX

Xsorus wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

After reading this I am torn. I love hearing what you are actively investigating for lag, etc, so that is good news. However there are some things I am concerned about.

-No PvE buffs then mean no PvEr's to fight in Cyrodiil. Computer's population is already extremely low, and this lowers it further. Need some reason for them to come play again.

-The no travel option to me is the biggest issue however. With the current state of PvP, and I am not joking, the first 30 minutes is always the group going to the few active campaigns and trying to find the most fun fights WITHOUT LAG.

If I can not travel out of a campaign on a Saturday when its a laggy mess, I know myself and 80% of Decibel will simply go play something else. This will be a major issue as fighting with lag every 10-15 minutes really hurts the flow of a team.

-Lastly is the Emp passives. I would very much like them to stay personally. If you farmed it, honestly, who cares? Mechanic was bad, but so were/are CP grinds, duping, bots farming mats, and all the other issues so far. If you farmed emp, you are likely a bad player anyways so you will still die. This seems to be more of a PR stunt and appealing to the casual (I understand, a fish has to swim though) and is kind of a punishment to players who have PvP'd. Its a buff you earn with passives, just like mages and fighters guild, legermaine (sp) and many others.

.

Lol,

You realize the spamming zerg ball you run is creating the lag you complain about, right? New system will likely keep players grounded to their chosen campaign, which means you can't continually run to campaigns you outnumber for easy wins. The one thing guild leaders will need to do is work on communication among each other to make sure they end up on the right campaigns together.

And I don't know what you are talking about in regards to your last comment. The proposed changes to Emp seem more like a deterrence to casuals not an appeal. An appeal to casuals would be dumbing content down and making it easier to obtain Emp...you'll see more competition now to obtain Emp in order for a player to maintain his Emp powers which means casuals probably don't have a good shot at it now (which they shouldn't, imo).

My "zergball" is constantly running smaller groups than essentially all our competition. Roughly 2 times a week we will go over that. No clue what group you run with or if you are a solo player, but Deci avoids lag at any cost.

And no, this is catering to the people that think the emperor passive is the reason they are losing, when it really has nothing to do with it. I am all for helping the health of the game though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoU5jqjdrmU

Here is a video of you guys running 24...and you + VE are lagging the game out

This is exactly what a lot of us want to avoid when we leave servers...Because that type of gameplay lags the servers

That was a time, setup to do that

And the lag came from BRK keep fight. This is exactly what a lot of us want to avoid when we leave servers.

Xsorus

WRX wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

After reading this I am torn. I love hearing what you are actively investigating for lag, etc, so that is good news. However there are some things I am concerned about.

-No PvE buffs then mean no PvEr's to fight in Cyrodiil. Computer's population is already extremely low, and this lowers it further. Need some reason for them to come play again.

-The no travel option to me is the biggest issue however. With the current state of PvP, and I am not joking, the first 30 minutes is always the group going to the few active campaigns and trying to find the most fun fights WITHOUT LAG.

If I can not travel out of a campaign on a Saturday when its a laggy mess, I know myself and 80% of Decibel will simply go play something else. This will be a major issue as fighting with lag every 10-15 minutes really hurts the flow of a team.

-Lastly is the Emp passives. I would very much like them to stay personally. If you farmed it, honestly, who cares? Mechanic was bad, but so were/are CP grinds, duping, bots farming mats, and all the other issues so far. If you farmed emp, you are likely a bad player anyways so you will still die. This seems to be more of a PR stunt and appealing to the casual (I understand, a fish has to swim though) and is kind of a punishment to players who have PvP'd. Its a buff you earn with passives, just like mages and fighters guild, legermaine (sp) and many others.

.

Lol,

You realize the spamming zerg ball you run is creating the lag you complain about, right? New system will likely keep players grounded to their chosen campaign, which means you can't continually run to campaigns you outnumber for easy wins. The one thing guild leaders will need to do is work on communication among each other to make sure they end up on the right campaigns together.

And I don't know what you are talking about in regards to your last comment. The proposed changes to Emp seem more like a deterrence to casuals not an appeal. An appeal to casuals would be dumbing content down and making it easier to obtain Emp...you'll see more competition now to obtain Emp in order for a player to maintain his Emp powers which means casuals probably don't have a good shot at it now (which they shouldn't, imo).

My "zergball" is constantly running smaller groups than essentially all our competition. Roughly 2 times a week we will go over that. No clue what group you run with or if you are a solo player, but Deci avoids lag at any cost.

And no, this is catering to the people that think the emperor passive is the reason they are losing, when it really has nothing to do with it. I am all for helping the health of the game though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoU5jqjdrmU

Here is a video of you guys running 24...and you + VE are lagging the game out

This is exactly what a lot of us want to avoid when we leave servers...Because that type of gameplay lags the servers

That was a time, setup to do that

And the lag came from BRK keep fight. This is exactly what a lot of us want to avoid when we leave servers.

Stop running a 24 man zerg ball..and you'll avoid it a lot easier.