PVP Update, June 2015

  • cjthibs
    cjthibs
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    By your logic, why even have levels or achievements at all? I mean if it's all just for fun... You shouldn't need levels and achievements as rewards. You got the fun of playing the game.

    I'd be fine with that.
    If the PvP wasn't fun, I wouldn't play it.

    Actually, achievements and unlockable bonuses are all relatively new to gaming.
    Mainly from the previous console generation.

    Not to sound like an old dude...I'm only 32...but some of my fondest memories are from games that didn't even save when you put them down.
    Edited by cjthibs on June 16, 2015 11:08PM
  • Publius_Scipio
    Publius_Scipio
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    Rylana wrote: »
    Removing former emperor passives is the only part of this I do not agree with.

    In my opinion it is the right thing to do. As emp you are the most powerful person in that campaign. When you are dethroned you shouldn't have any residual power. Why? Because you want your trophy on your shelf? You work hard to make emp, you work hard to stay emp. If you don't like the idea, then don't put in the time to make emp in the first place (I am sure many players will fight to get to the top).

    Obviously the change is meant to be a blow to emp farming.
  • Enodoc
    Enodoc
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    Takllin wrote: »

    I just checked and it is currently free if you wait until the end of the campaign...

    That's what I thought... so where does 5,000 AP come into it?
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  • SLy_Kyti
    SLy_Kyti
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    Valnas wrote: »
    the zos motto is if you can't fix it, remove it.

    Former Former Emperor (single player objective)
    Former Forward Camps (fast transit and pace of play)
    Former Mercenary contracts (population)
    Former Ground Oil (lag/congestion of groups)
    Former Oil Catapult no purge
    Former 100% heal debuff
    Torchbugs

    You had a bunch of mechanics that worked and allows small groups and large to impact Cyrodiil, removed them do to feedback from 'players', and wonder why the game struggles to perform at the level it used to and why play has turned into tho zergs seiging eachother.

    Please add more skills/passives for the alliance war trees. I think at 45 or 50 a unique group buff / ultimate, or a marker on the map would be nice.

    There! Fixed it for you.
    Giving you a Agree, wish I could put Awesomely Insightful as well. Good post.
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  • ElfFromSpace
    ElfFromSpace
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    Thanks for the update! I do have 2 main concerns however with these changes.

    1. I think it's a mistake to completely remove the former emperor buff and the PVP buffs that apply to PVE. While I agree that the current system is NOT working, I think it's important to have good rewards for PVP that motivate PVE players to participate. I have proposed that instead of a buff based on which faction leads on a particular server, the buff should be instead based on each player's PVP Reward Tier. This would put an end to the abuse of players feeling they must dominate a campaign and instead encourage players to want a fair fight where they could accumulate AP. It would also reward players for participating even if they chose to participate as underdogs on a campaign. PVE players would no longer be disillusioned by the frustration of spending hours securing their home campaign only to log out of Cyrodil and immediately see their hard work being taken back.

    2. Campaign Gridlock: Any player who makes characters in multiple factions and tries out PVP rapidly finds themselves in a gridlock where they are unable to change the campaign of any of them. The guest campaigns make this far worse because they allow one character to lock up 2 campaigns and there is no way to REMOVE a guest campaign nor can we even assign the guest campaign to be the same as the home campaign. PLEASE allow players to REMOVE a guest campaign and even a home campaign completely. This option could have a cooldown of 30 days, but should be allowed so we can go into PVP, get our starting skillpoints, and check it out without then finding ourselves forever locked out of that campaign on all other characters.
    Former GM Elder Scrolls Exchange
  • SLy_Kyti
    SLy_Kyti
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    Incoming!
    All the PvE only players looking for their buffs for Trials and Questing….WAHmbulance



    DPtPYA.jpg


    [note: this one was once a mostly PvP only player but returned to the delves of outer Tamriel, tail tucked, hiding from exploiters, lag abusing meteor spammers and campaign switching Zergfests]
    Edited by SLy_Kyti on June 16, 2015 11:24PM
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  • eliisra
    eliisra
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    Jekkyl wrote: »
    Individual Players should only be able to get Emperor ONCE per campaign duration. Once dethroned that's that should be it.
    This would mean players will need good teamwork and communication and actually have to work together to actually keep the emperor status rather than just the person who plays alot and has the most points keeps getting the buff over and over and over....

    That would make emp farming, trading and all the crap that comes with it, even worse tho.

    Right now a full guild moving to a campaign with the intention of farming emp(instead of winning the war), have to deal with no-life individuals outranking their buddies. It's very annoying for those guilds, I tell you.

    When they go afk-mode, waiting for the map to flip back(so they can crown the next guy in line), that annoying individual will defend every single keep and racking up the most AP. He will not step down from being nr1, because he thinks PvP should be about "honour" and not farming buffs.

    Now remove that guy once he gets crowned and you're basically turning every non-competitive campaign into emp farmland. Everyone can now nicely wait their turn...

    Topic: It sucks that people who took a week of work to get their emp buffs, cried, slaved, got no sleep and so on, will now loose it. They gave up a chunk of their sanity, to obtain the only form of progression that exists in PvP past alliance war 10.

    But overall I think the former emp buffs makes more harm than good. I agree that it's cruel to take it away yes, but when entire guilds consistently invade campaigns to farm a skill line for 30 people, it just creates crappy PvP, drama, *** on so many levels.
  • Snit
    Snit
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    I cannot believe what I'm reading.
    You are basically removing all incentive to PVP in your game

    Wait.. your incentives were Former Emp and PvE buffs? OK. To each their own. I think most people are in it because PvP is fun and AP have become more valuable than gold.
    Snit AD Sorc
    Ratbag AD Warden Tank
    Goblins AD Stamblade

  • Asteria2
    Asteria2
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    Here’s a general update on what we are doing to alleviate some of the pain points in Cyrodiil. This includes systems/mechanics that promote poor sportsmanship, and undesirable reliances, and Cyrodiil-related performance problems that many of you are seeing, especially in Veteran campaigns. Please note that this summarizes our current thinking, but we may change this plan as events warrant.

    As I’m sure many of you have noticed, there are far fewer performance problems in non-Veteran campaigns. We have been investigating why non-Veteran campaigns perform better than their Veteran counterparts, and are starting to make some changes based on what we have found. As some of you already know, what we’re seeing is this: there is a point where if too many players are too close together and perform too many AoE and other instant-cast types of spells that server performance starts to degrade. As lower level characters don’t have many of these types of spells, non-Veteran campaigns generally don’t run into this trouble.

    As such, the combat team is currently making adjustments to line-of-sight checks for area-of-effect abilities that have been causing the majority of server congestion in Cyrodiil. This has resulted in us taking a close look at higher level abilities/items to root out line-of-sight checks and other potential client-to-server message overflow issues.

    There are also many other issues that will be addressed in the near future, some of which are related to players exploiting PvP buffs, social systems, and the Emperor system. Many of these issues came to use via direct feedback from players – thank you so much for your help, everyone who has taken the time to give us well documented feedback. It makes our jobs far easier.

    With all this in mind, a multi-pronged change is coming to campaigns, the Emperor system, and campaign assignment that will be a major adjustment. The goal of this change is to address population imbalance issues, the reliance on “buff servers,” and Emperor farming. Read below for an explanation of the changes you can expect to see coming to Cyrodiil in our next major update.
    • Jump-to-Friend: Social jumping into Cyrodiil or any PVP space is being disabled. This has long been the way to get around the Guest/Home campaign assignment. With this change, we’re closing that loophole as it's detrimental to the overall PVP experience and integrity of the campaign system.
    • PVP Bonuses: Keep, Elder Scroll, and the Emperorship bonuses (passive buffs) will apply only in PVP spaces. This change will effectively do away with the concept of “buff servers.” Originally, we wanted these bonuses to provide a game-wide benefit, but we’ve seen this design become detrimental to the PVP experience due to alliances having "buff servers."
    • Emperor Buffs/Skill Line: The "Former Emperor" buffs are being removed from the game. With this new system, you will only get Emperor buffs while your character is actively Emperor. Also, you will be granted the Emperor skill line and abilities upon earning Emperorship, without the need to spend ability points. All players that have spent points in the Emperor skill line will be refunded those skill points.
    • Low Population Campaigns/Underscoring Alliances: Players participating in a low-population campaign or as part of an underscoring alliance will now gain 20% more AP within the campaign they're earning that bonus for, instead of 10%. Population polling has also been sped up to apply the underdog/low-population bonuses more often; however, this also means they have the opportunity to expire faster.
    • Guest Campaign Reassignment: The cooldown on Guest Campaign reassignment will be increased to 4 days from 3.
    • Home Campaign Reassignment: The cooldown on Home Campaign reassignment has been changed to 12 hours from 3 days, but the cost to switch will be 150,000 AP instead of 15,000. Also, switching home campaigns at the end of a campaign period will now cost 100 AP instead of 5,000 AP.
    • Battle Leveling: The Battle Leveling system has been updated to include Veteran Ranks. Players that opt into Battle Leveling will be roughly equivalent in power to a VR14 player in moderate-quality gear.
    • Elder Scrolls & Gates: A fix is in the works that will prevent enemy player characters from getting through the Elder Scroll Gates while the gates are closed. (Gate jumpers beware. Your days are numbered.) Also, a new protective barrier will now surround the Elder Scrolls while in their temples, if the Elder Scroll Gates are closed. This barrier will drop if the gate opens.

    That’s not all—the combat team has been hard at work tweaking numbers on abilities and items, too. Expect to see more details about those changes in future patch notes…considering these aren’t patch notes. =)

    Last but certainly not least, we have some changes coming for each of the campaigns. We will be making some scoring adjustments to the campaigns in order to provide 4 different campaign styles, each with with different scoring parameters. In all cases the keep transit system, keep bonuses, scroll bonuses, emperorship crowning/deposing, and leaderboards will remain the same except for the scoring and duration changes noted below:
    • Azura: Ownership of keeps, resources, Elder Scrolls, and outposts will generate 1 point each per scoring cycle and last 30 days.
    • Blackwater Blade: Ownership of keeps, resources, Elder Scrolls, and outposts will generate 1 point each per scoring cycle and last 5 days. (Non-Veterans only.)
    • Chillrend: Keeps, outposts, and resources will generate zero points. Ownership of Elder Scrolls will generate 1 point per scoring cycle and last 7 days.
    • Haderus: Keeps, outposts, and Elder Scrolls will generate zero points. Ownership of resources will generate 1 point per scoring cycle and last 7 days.
    • Thornblade: Resources, outposts, and Elder Scrolls will generate zero points. Ownership of keeps will generate 1 point per scoring cycle and last 7 days.
    • Versidue-Shae (Console Only): Ownership of keeps, resources, Elder Scrolls, and outposts will generate 1 point each per scoring cycle and last 5 days. (Non-Veterans only.)

    All campaigns noted above will be ended when the patch with these changes is live, and start at a score of 0. We have not yet determined if we will reset all objectives to their starting alliances. We will communicate this in the associated patch notes.

    As always, these changes are subject to change based on feedback and testing, but this is the direction we’re going with PVP and Cyrodiil. Hopefully this post shows we are dedicated to delivering a solid PVP experience, and we thank you again for your loyalty to the war in Cyrodiil and your feedback!

    We’ll see you on the battlefield!

    I think that some of these changes are great! Losing the buff servers is an excellent idea. However, other ideas show how little the developers understand PvP in this game...

    1. Taking out the jump to a friend feature: We move campaigns when one campaign dies out, but now we will be stuck in a dead server looking to camp gates and keeps just to have something to do... Or not play pvp? This a band aid fix for not upgrading your mega servers that were supposed to be able to handle hundred of players on screen at one time.

    2. Taking away former emperor buffs: You are punishing those of us who worked hard to get emperor, for a few bad apples. I recently stayed up 48 hours straight to get emperor and now I am going to be punished for my hard work?!?!


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  • Heresiarch
    Garion wrote: »
    I don't understand though, how is it apparently "abused". Yes people campaign hop - but I still don't see why this is a problem? If I am playing on TB and it turns into a laggy messy where the only fights are train vs train, I'm going to move elsewhere. Remove the ability to move elsewhere and I am going to log out. How is this a good thing?

    Somebody said upthread, but current emp farming tactics take advantage of the travel to friend option, and then you have alliances bragging about being everywhere, all the time, like some sort of hive mind/borg collective. Is that really what the game designers intended? Maybe? I don't know. They try stuff, see if it works, then figure out it has unintended consequences. I'm not sure group/friend travel really affects lag, TBH. I mean, it was already laggy. I guess it doesn't help.

    As to how it affects you as a player if the campaign you're in sucks, either too crowded, or too empty, I concede that's an issue. I don't campaign hop, I just do something else, but I am extremely frustrated by the feast or famine populations in PvP currently. I am hoping this helps. I guess my point was that people are upset about the travel option being removed, but don't necessarily want to see it is also causing problems. :(

    Maybe the combo of no travel to friend and removal of buff campaigns will help? If it doesn't, we'll know pretty quickly. Maybe all we need is the removal of the PvP buffs in PvE land.
    Draxys wrote: »
    Lol your response about the travel to player issue shows how much you don't understand its implications. The people that don't want it are the ones who hate when their faction stacks in the same campaign, not the ones who want that to happen. We do not want to be stuck in campaigns where we have either no one to fight, or have only lag to fight. And inevitably, there are lots of people who will be stuck with that once these changes are implemented, because they sure as hell aren't going to fix pop balance and lag by then.

    I understand perfectly. I'm willing to see if it helps some of the problems. I've seen what factions can do by traveling to friends while dominating their home campaign and simultaneously steamrolling another map. And maybe this won't help. It may make other issues categorically WORSE. I know which factions stack on campaigns. Every faction is guilty of it to some degree. Some are worse than others, but then that has to do with overall population, too. I'm actually nervous about the heavy AP cost to switch since I don't do a lot of AP farming. Just don't have a ton of time to play, period. If my chosen home/guest campaign sucks and I'm not having fun, then I guess I'm stuck with those if I don't have the AP to move. If I really wanted to, now, I'd be able to go play with a friend on a fun server where the population is actually balanced even if my home and guest servers are awful. So if you want to look at it that way, it's actually punishing a casual player. Win or lose, I have the most fun when the factions are evenly matched, but if I'm stuck in dull campaign with no fights (either because my faction is winning, i.e. buff campaign) or because my faction is getting steamrolled (there are fights but not necessarily fun ones), I'll want to blow my brains out. I *do* get it. :neutral:

    And yeah... lag... it's bad now... but is this going to help? Or make it a lot worse?

    About the only thing I'm super confident that is okay is the buff campaigns being gone. But maybe somebody can agree to disagree there, too.

    And at least they are doing something to address a few of the issues. It's better than the alternative, which is what we've been getting for a while now.
  • SLy_Kyti
    SLy_Kyti
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    pema wrote: »
    Can there be an reset of your chars from the campains, so you can make a coise who to put were?
    When we fire up the campaign changes, we will wipe your current home\guest assignments.

    We all get a free reset when this comes out
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  • Snit
    Snit
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    The Former Emp buffs cause behavior inimical to the long-term growth of PvP. Removing them sucks for those players who stayed up for two days straight to achieve it, but it's frankly more important that ZOS do everything they can think of to improve the experience for everyone. And the vast majority of everyone is not former emps, or future former emps.
    Snit AD Sorc
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  • cjthibs
    cjthibs
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    Snit wrote: »
    The Former Emp buffs cause behavior inimical to the long-term growth of PvP. Removing them sucks for those players who stayed up for two days straight to achieve it, but it's frankly more important that ZOS do everything they can think of to improve the experience for everyone. And the vast majority of everyone is not former emps, or future former emps.

    Right on.
    Not to mention the elitist mentality that is cultivated by all of these people who brag about it.

    I do respect the amount of effort that goes into it, but the attitudes some of these folks display really isn't helpful or even remotely enjoyable to deal with. Perhaps if some of the incentive to mindlessly grind away to get Emp is removed this will be less of an issue.
  • saintmurray
    saintmurray
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    Omg something finally, watch the masses come back! Maybe it will be enough to take pvp off life support!
    Saintmurray-V14-Bamplar-EP Former Emp Haderus
    Hans Incognito-V1 DK-EP
    #Betatester
    #Ipaidbeforeitwascool
  • Gilvoth
    Gilvoth
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    removing the former emperor buff is the best part of this and will help greatly, as far as the other changes they are perfect, infact all of the suggestions that @ZOS_BrianWheeler has made is perfect.
    now if they also increase the damage for my nightblade to equal the damage of the other classes AND also lower the requirement from rank 10 to atleast rank 5 or lower for the skill "vigor" AND also start giving us the dark brotherhood and a dark brotherhood skill line then i will most definately return to playing the game, and not a moment sooner.
  • saintmurray
    saintmurray
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    Now we just need a massive xp boost for pvp that way pver can come to grind levels. Keep the servers active!
    Saintmurray-V14-Bamplar-EP Former Emp Haderus
    Hans Incognito-V1 DK-EP
    #Betatester
    #Ipaidbeforeitwascool
  • Leandor
    Leandor
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    I only now saw that other change that is being planned, have only one 30-day-campaign. Is the general census that 30 days are too long? I for one will now for sure remain on azura with my main because I absolutely prefer that duration.

    If this is true for more than just one populated campaign worth of players, I forsee TB type queues there. Depending on player feedback, it may be worth to have a second 30-day and two 7-day veteran campaigns instead of three 7-day campaigns and only one 30-day.
  • VirtualElizabeth
    VirtualElizabeth
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    Will this mean I won't have to assign a character to a campaign that was in one before? Shes in an opposing faction and I no longer want her in any campaign. Oh please, oh please make it so!

    @ZOS_BrianWheeler Please see question above. Thanks!

    @ElizabethInTamriel; @ElizabethInESO
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  • SLy_Kyti
    SLy_Kyti
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    For those that did not read the whole thing \0/ This is an ongoing conversation about the changes planned but not solidified. Here's Brian's Quotes so far...

    We have discussed the ability to remove your home and guest assignment entirely, but won't make it in for this update. It has been a highly requested feature and we will work to get it in the future.

    http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1893349/#Comment_1893349

    When we fire up the campaign changes, we will wipe your current home\guest assignments.

    http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1893414/#Comment_1893414

    Many AE abilities have 2 LOS checks at the beginning and end of casting by default. Since many of these are instant cast, there's no need for one of those checks, which halves the amount of messages sent back and forth between the client and server. The LOS checks are still needed to ensure you can't PBAE through walls and physics objects that would block the effects from going "through them".

    http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1893576/#Comment_1893576

    Just to clarify, you will keep the Emperor Dye and "former emperor" titles.

    http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1894078/#Comment_1894078

    We're still looking into a way to do a "hard reset" when campaigns end that wouldn't involve booting people out of Cyrodiil.
    Edited by SLy_Kyti on June 16, 2015 11:58PM
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  • Hadan_of_Rift
    Hadan_of_Rift
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    Becoming emperor is an objective and it takes a team. I can't take keeps and resources by myself. I got emperor by rallying my friends and guild mates and all of us working together to take Cyrodiil.
    They only need a group and a team for the keep taking they amass the AP bygoing to delves get AP bonus and fix walls and doors or killing friends from other factions who use the travel to player loophole.

  • Sanct16
    Sanct16
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    Atropos wrote: »
    Hey @ZOS_BrianWheeler, thanks for sharing the details of PvP changes, your post has a lot of great solutions to current problems. I'd like to echo @Erlex' comment, though, about the importance of restricting the ability to resurrect at keeps that are severed from the transit network.

    I assume you mean "friendly controlled keeps that are not connected to a transit line". I'm really concerned how this idea has "not gotten any traction". It makes no sense to be able to respawn at a keep your alliance cannot transit to, as it completely sabotages the strategic importance of the travel network. As long as death remains a free and useful means of fast travel "blood porting" will remain a valid Cyrodiil strategy. I don't see how this creates satisfying gameplay.

    The design of the transit system clearly implies that you have thought about these issues. You don't want players to be able to teleport into keeps that are actively under siege, or deep within enemy territory. So ... don't let them!

    I really don't see how there is even a possible counter-argument to this.
    Reducing possible spawn locations = Reducing possible fights on the map = Increasing mindless zerging = Reduce fun.

    How is zerging from alessia to sejanus fun? Right it isnt. But since there are no camps anymore, its the easiest way to find a fight in which your death doesnt mean 5 minutes horse simulator.

    The change would make taking keeps in the back meaningless. You pretty much have to go to the next keep because its unlikely that you will be able to defend a keep if there is no way for you or your allies to respawn. So even more mindless zerging to the next keep with even less strategy involved.
    I guess you could trollsiege 1-2 enemy homekeeps and cut off like 5-6 other keeps from portline so the entire faction has to respawn at the base (what a great tactic... NOT).

    I do understand that it might break your immersion but for the sake of being able to have multiple fights on the map I am very fine with breaking your immersion.
    - EU - Raid Leader of Banana Zerg Squad
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  • Domander
    Domander
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    so... what are you doing to encourage solo and small group pvp?

    It looks like very little or nothing.
  • InvictoNZ
    InvictoNZ
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    Thank you.
  • FENGRUSH
    FENGRUSH
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    Domander wrote: »
    so... what are you doing to encourage solo and small group pvp?

    It looks like very little or nothing.

    Ignoring all questions about small group pvp it appears.
  • Heresiarch
    Snit wrote: »
    The Former Emp buffs cause behavior inimical to the long-term growth of PvP. Removing them sucks for those players who stayed up for two days straight to achieve it, but it's frankly more important that ZOS do everything they can think of to improve the experience for everyone. And the vast majority of everyone is not former emps, or future former emps.

    I don't know why the devs thought former emperor passives were a good idea in the first place. Like you said, it's exclusionary content that the majority of players will never experience. Which is fine, if it's just a title, but when you attach some permanent significance to it that gives people even a little edge, it becomes a problem. Even if, as I was told way back when, the passives don't really decide the outcome of a 1v1 battle, or drastically improve trials performance, they do give SOME advantage, or people would not be balking at the removal. Some former emps really don't care about the passives, they'll take them or leave them, but some care now that the passives may be removed.

    Still think the passives should have been removed immediately after emperor farming became rampant back in the day. There weren't too many legitimate emperors then, and not as many of the good guys and ladies who worked hard to achieve their goal of emp would be punished.
  • Hypertionb14_ESO
    Hypertionb14_ESO
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    i love the extra HP that lets me put more points into stam or magicka while im in PvE just from being homed in a 100% washout of a campaign..

    *spits out the bile*

    GOOD *** RIDDANCE!
    I play every class in every situation. I love them all.
  • Manoekin
    Manoekin
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    Sanct16 wrote: »
    Reducing possible spawn locations = Reducing possible fights on the map = Increasing mindless zerging = Reduce fun.

    How is zerging from alessia to sejanus fun? Right it isnt. But since there are no camps anymore, its the easiest way to find a fight in which your death doesnt mean 5 minutes horse simulator.

    The change would make taking keeps in the back meaningless. You pretty much have to go to the next keep because its unlikely that you will be able to defend a keep if there is no way for you or your allies to respawn. So even more mindless zerging to the next keep with even less strategy involved.
    I guess you could trollsiege 1-2 enemy homekeeps and cut off like 5-6 other keeps from portline so the entire faction has to respawn at the base (what a great tactic... NOT).

    I do understand that it might break your immersion but for the sake of being able to have multiple fights on the map I am very fine with breaking your immersion.

    Someone better at words than me -_- thank you based AD brother.
  • Heresiarch
    FENGRUSH wrote: »

    Ignoring all questions about small group pvp it appears.

    Is there anything you see in these changes that could help small groups, Feng?
  • Manoekin
    Manoekin
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    ✭✭
    Heresiarch wrote: »

    Is there anything you see in these changes that could help small groups, Feng?

    Play on the resource campaign and take ALL OF THE RESOURCES!!!!
  • SLy_Kyti
    SLy_Kyti
    ✭✭✭✭
    Enodoc wrote: »
    That's a funny thing, because I though it was free currently as well, and yet Brian says:

    Also, switching home campaigns at the end of a campaign period will now cost 100 AP instead of 5,000 AP.

    It's one of two options at present. waiting until the campaign ends is cheaper, at present. Soon it will be even cheaper.
    If you have no campaign selected (now at present time) changing to another is free. If you are in the middle of a campaign there is currently a cost associated with transferring.

    The cost for transferring to a Guest campaign is free if you wait until its over.
    The cost of your HOME campaign change is 15000 AP during a campaign. Waiting, it drops to 5,000. This is how it is on all my characters as they have all selected campaigns at the outset. If your character has never selected a campaign then of course the first kiss is free.

    When the PvP patch comes, whenever that is...you will have no campaigns spent. This infers the selection of Home and Guest is free.
    What is unknown is whether the Alliance option is reset as well.

    [edited for clarity]
    Edited by SLy_Kyti on June 17, 2015 12:31AM
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