Experience Point Boosters

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

DDuke wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Rhass wrote: »

And sadly, this brings an end to why anyone would even sub anymore...officially making ESO P2W.

The Vet grind wouldn't even be an issue if they would just drop the vet levels like they said they would, capping levels at 50.

My guild wants me to come back to play, but this just seems like another nail in the coffin for me.

It's been stated above, game is driving folks away instead of attracting them. I understand that a game needs to make $$ to survive, but they haven't even offered the basic features that folks are willing to pay for which has already been mentioned...DLC, more pets/mounts, cosmetics, name changes, faction/server transfers...actually making ESO Plus desirable...etc.


P.S Still waiting for wolf pets/mounts in the crown $tore.

All the stuff you mentioned are basically one time purchases. For me no time purchases. I have no interest in a name change since noone ever sees your characters name anyways. Consumables like the XP boosters are something people will buy over and over. I havent spent a single crown of all the free crowns I got. I have no interest in cosmetics Im not playing barbie dress up online. I have no need for a faction change if I want that I can just reroll.

Ok, so you are not spending any money currently. What is the problem with that, if I may ask? Most people I know would be happy about saving money

Also, there are plenty of people who are willing to put that money into cosmetics & "one time purchases", or into things like subscription as proven by other games in the genre and other genres (you do not need to look further than MOBAs).

The beauty of "one time purchases" is also that they keep developers working, rather than just sitting back & counting the dollars while their P2W machine consolidates power to a small percentage of players & drives the rest away.

How long do you think the game can go without money being put into it? I dont even understand this whole complaint. They have said from the first mention of a cash shop xp boosts would be in it. The only question anyone had was will they also be available in the game. Doing all this chicken little stuff screaming about how the sky is falling I find hard to take seriously.

Good job ignoring everything I wrote, well done.

I think I'm done with this conversation, if you can call it that.

Have a good day.

I didnt ignore everything you said. Ive just rebutted it all on other posts. Im not going to keep saying the same things over and over. All mmos like this have pay to skip options. Unlike alot of other games this one you can also craft yourself. You just keep wanting to argue that a one off purchase generates more revenue than consumables like xp pots. You are absolutely 100% wrong on that point.

Maphysto

The way this potions are being presented will destroy this game in a few months. If the boost would only affect Lvling and VR Ranks, it would be a great thing for the game, but this is will only be increasing gap between players, not to mention new players. Do not think that the grind player base will not use this from day one to rise into a god lvl ... PVP is starting to be more like a CPs competition instead of player skill.

I'm here since the close beta, belive me this is not a step in the right direction. ZOS did a great job since i start play this game...now for me we have a great game not perfect but great!:)

For me this problem can be solved:
- make the CP have a cap for seasons allowing this way for all players to keep up with the CP system;
- make exp potions only affect the leveling progression to the system cap VR14 (lvling and VR ranks) (BEST OPTION)
- make the drop rates of mats and recipe parts more normal then the gold mats now in-game, normal drops rates will help everyone farm a bit and have the same opportunities that credit card players have. MONEY ISNT THE SAME PROBLEM TO EVERYONE.

Otherwise it will be P2W, and we've all had seen where p2w games end. So please Zos we ask for things is because we do care for the game.

Thanks guys, cya online.

Enodoc

Kerioko wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Because if they did truly care whether or not we perceived them to be "greedy" or any other similar adjectives, they would have simply made the XP boosters not apply to CP gain. But they didn't.

I agree with the entire post, but I just wanted to comment on this bit. As I said above, since CPs are intrinsically tied to XPs, I don't think it would be "simple" at all for these boosters to apply to VR levelling and not CP gain. They're tied together too much. Now if these boosters would be only usable for anyone below V14, I think we may get somewhere. Let the V1-V13 players get a CP boost until they reach V14 so that they can catch up quicker, but as soon as they reach V14, no more boosters.

This will not slow the CP grind any....Thos ethat wish to grind CP will just leave a character slot open to create a new toon, grind it to V14 and delete said toon...Then create new toon and grind to V14 and delete and so on and so on!

Ah that's true. I forgot for a moment that CPs were account-wide. Never mind on that suggestion then, and I go back to my previous one of hoping they can find a way to split CP progress away from XP.

Raghul

I would be ok with the exp pots to level faster to VR 14 so people can catch up to enjoy endgame content with their comrads,
But i absolutly hate the CP boost. This makes me feel obligated to buy/farm them all the time to benefit the most from it wich makes the game unpleasent for me. If you just chill and go do some pvp or other things while you are getting behind on the CP grinders with their pots up all the time and in a few months being facerolled by those players because they are much stronger with all the passive boost they get, sad way to go. I really hope they reconsider as i love this game. But implementing this would get me discouraged in time and maybe get me quit this game and i really do not want that.

Please ZoS, think about this !

BurtFreeman

it is nice you are implementing thing on game, but please, really, stop with buff and start to implement any sort of challenge the game fail.
all the pve is a sort of joke, off course after you learn the basic mechanics of the game, so instead of buffing player with those thing (champion poin and similar), buff the bosses, becouse pve soloing (bosses, dolmes, delves and public dungeon) is going even more boring.
instead, try to implement dungeon+, becouse i don't like to wait an hour each time i want to group. so the way i like soloing.

this game has potential, but i aspect a challange: you may buff the low level, but you may want to think about removing it from veterans.

Shader_Shibes

Why couldn't these have come out 2 months ago when i wasn't working, could of had 8 v14's by now ^^

Anyway, not sure about the cp gain, think its a dangerous path to tread on for ZOS, however i would be foolish not too milk the *** out of them while they are here

Lionxoft

MissBizz wrote: »

[EDIT] Oh, and bravo! I have been waiting to see something (anything) that "can be found in game as well in the crown store" that wasn't already in game.

You didn't look that hard then. Adventurer's/Explorer's pack and the Imperial Race.

GG @MissBizz

My thoughts:
If these ingredients are rare and take quite a bit of time to farm then it's straight p2w and there's no doubt about it. Pay your money? Gain more power by playing the game than someone that doesn't contribute to the cash shop. This further confirms my understanding that ZOS has no intention of refraining from the sale of power in the cash shop despite Paul Sage's and Matt Firor's commitment not to.

This could have been avoided by making the xp boosters not affect Champion Points. I don't see why this is a problem either since offering these boosters was part of the plan all along. I'm disappointed even further because the team designing the champion system wasn't in communication with the rest of the developers. That says a lot about the intentions behind this.

Lionxoft

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Question is what are the mats for Psijic Ambrosia?

I have a sneaking suspicion that it will be much easier to fork over the money for the Crown Store version than to craft them yourself, unlike all of the other Crown Store potions.

I hope ZOS proves me wrong, but... I'm not exactly hopeful, especially considering that these potions are now basically going to be mandatory for anyone above lv50.

I think we should just be happy there is an in-game version we can craft.

@jamesharv2005ub17_ESO Having an in-game version makes absolutely no difference if the ingredients aren't worth the time in comparison to the cash shop version.

That's a common f2p monetization cop out.

MissBizz

Lionxoft wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

[EDIT] Oh, and bravo! I have been waiting to see something (anything) that "can be found in game as well in the crown store" that wasn't already in game.

You didn't look that hard then. Adventurer's/Explorer's pack and the Imperial Race.

GG @MissBizz

My thoughts:
If these ingredients are rare and take quite a bit of time to farm then it's straight p2w and there's no doubt about it. Pay your money? Gain more power by playing the game than someone that doesn't. This further confirms my understanding that ZOS has no intention of refraining from the sale of power in the cash shop despite Paul Sage's and Matt Firor's commitment not to.

This could have been avoided by making the xp boosters not affect Champion Points. I don't see why this is a problem either since offering these boosters was part of the plan all along. I'm disappointed even further because the team designing the champion system wasn't in communication with the rest of the developers. That says a lot about the intentions behind this.

@Lionxoft sorry, I should have been more clear. I meant items, and specifically new items that get added to the crown store (actually new, don't kid yourself that the adventurers pack was new) Up until now any completely new to the game items have been crown store only. Everything else was previously available, or in game already. (Any pet, mounts, "convenience items" were either already in game - maybe slightly different than in game, but had an equivalent.. If they weren't, then they were crown store exclusives)

Lionxoft

MissBizz wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

[EDIT] Oh, and bravo! I have been waiting to see something (anything) that "can be found in game as well in the crown store" that wasn't already in game.

You didn't look that hard then. Adventurer's/Explorer's pack and the Imperial Race.

GG @MissBizz

My thoughts:
If these ingredients are rare and take quite a bit of time to farm then it's straight p2w and there's no doubt about it. Pay your money? Gain more power by playing the game than someone that doesn't. This further confirms my understanding that ZOS has no intention of refraining from the sale of power in the cash shop despite Paul Sage's and Matt Firor's commitment not to.

This could have been avoided by making the xp boosters not affect Champion Points. I don't see why this is a problem either since offering these boosters was part of the plan all along. I'm disappointed even further because the team designing the champion system wasn't in communication with the rest of the developers. That says a lot about the intentions behind this.

@Lionxoft sorry, I should have been more clear. I meant items, and specifically new items that get added to the crown store (actually new, don't kid yourself that the adventurers pack was new) Up until now any completely new to the game items have been crown store only. Everything else was previously available, or in game already. (Any pet, mounts, "convenience items" were either already in game - maybe slightly different than in game, but had an equivalent.. If they weren't, then they were crown store exclusives)

MissBizz wrote: »

(snip) something (anything) (snip)

@MissBizz It clearly says "something (anything)" however I understand what you might have meant but didn't say.


Name change, race change, gender, class, inventory expansion and bank expansion services. There I brainstormed (maybe a spark?) a quick 5 seconds and came up with new "Convenience" items that don't affect end game power and would sell well. This is a really bad move from Zenimax Online Studios. I wonder how many gaming sites will pull their previous quote and compare it to their current action to show the complete disrespect for the community's intelligence and Zenimax's lack of integrity towards the community.

XP Boosts are fine to help you get to max level (vr14) faster. XP boosts that affect long term power beyond max level is not. Like, at all.

MissBizz

Lionxoft wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

[EDIT] Oh, and bravo! I have been waiting to see something (anything) that "can be found in game as well in the crown store" that wasn't already in game.

You didn't look that hard then. Adventurer's/Explorer's pack and the Imperial Race.

GG @MissBizz

My thoughts:
If these ingredients are rare and take quite a bit of time to farm then it's straight p2w and there's no doubt about it. Pay your money? Gain more power by playing the game than someone that doesn't. This further confirms my understanding that ZOS has no intention of refraining from the sale of power in the cash shop despite Paul Sage's and Matt Firor's commitment not to.

This could have been avoided by making the xp boosters not affect Champion Points. I don't see why this is a problem either since offering these boosters was part of the plan all along. I'm disappointed even further because the team designing the champion system wasn't in communication with the rest of the developers. That says a lot about the intentions behind this.

@Lionxoft sorry, I should have been more clear. I meant items, and specifically new items that get added to the crown store (actually new, don't kid yourself that the adventurers pack was new) Up until now any completely new to the game items have been crown store only. Everything else was previously available, or in game already. (Any pet, mounts, "convenience items" were either already in game - maybe slightly different than in game, but had an equivalent.. If they weren't, then they were crown store exclusives)

MissBizz wrote: »

(snip) something (anything) (snip)

@MissBizz It clearly says "something (anything)" however I understand what you might have meant but didn't say.


Name change, race change, gender, class, inventory expansion and bank expansion services. There I brainstormed (maybe a spark?) a quick 5 seconds and came up with new "Convenience" items that don't affect end game power and would sell well. This is a really bad move from Zenimax Online Studios. I wonder how many gaming sites will pull their previous quote and compare it to their current action to show the complete disrespect for the community's intelligence and Zenimax's lack of integrity towards the community.

XP Boosts are fine to help you get to max level (vr14) faster. XP boosts that affect long term power beyond max level is not. Like, at all.

I actually can agree with you @Lionxoft . I don't like the CP being gained from them either, but to be honest, I'd rather choose my battles than tire out. I personally don't care how much CP I have.. To me its just a little thing in the background that's like "oh cool!" When I get one. Therefore I'm not fighting it. I don't like it, but I believe at this point.. It's coming. When it was datamined, many spoke up.. It has now been officially announced in the way that made people unhappy. I personally believe we already tried to fight it, but they chose to bring it to the game anyways.

I'm not saying its P2W or not. I'd rather not have that conversation. I'm also not happy that it effects CP, but I'll save my energy for a different battle.

Lionxoft

MissBizz wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

[EDIT] Oh, and bravo! I have been waiting to see something (anything) that "can be found in game as well in the crown store" that wasn't already in game.

You didn't look that hard then. Adventurer's/Explorer's pack and the Imperial Race.

GG @MissBizz

My thoughts:
If these ingredients are rare and take quite a bit of time to farm then it's straight p2w and there's no doubt about it. Pay your money? Gain more power by playing the game than someone that doesn't. This further confirms my understanding that ZOS has no intention of refraining from the sale of power in the cash shop despite Paul Sage's and Matt Firor's commitment not to.

This could have been avoided by making the xp boosters not affect Champion Points. I don't see why this is a problem either since offering these boosters was part of the plan all along. I'm disappointed even further because the team designing the champion system wasn't in communication with the rest of the developers. That says a lot about the intentions behind this.

@Lionxoft sorry, I should have been more clear. I meant items, and specifically new items that get added to the crown store (actually new, don't kid yourself that the adventurers pack was new) Up until now any completely new to the game items have been crown store only. Everything else was previously available, or in game already. (Any pet, mounts, "convenience items" were either already in game - maybe slightly different than in game, but had an equivalent.. If they weren't, then they were crown store exclusives)

MissBizz wrote: »

(snip) something (anything) (snip)

@MissBizz It clearly says "something (anything)" however I understand what you might have meant but didn't say.


Name change, race change, gender, class, inventory expansion and bank expansion services. There I brainstormed (maybe a spark?) a quick 5 seconds and came up with new "Convenience" items that don't affect end game power and would sell well. This is a really bad move from Zenimax Online Studios. I wonder how many gaming sites will pull their previous quote and compare it to their current action to show the complete disrespect for the community's intelligence and Zenimax's lack of integrity towards the community.

XP Boosts are fine to help you get to max level (vr14) faster. XP boosts that affect long term power beyond max level is not. Like, at all.

(snip)
I personally don't care how much CP I have..
(snip)

That's nice for you @MissBizz and I can appreciate that but for the hardcore guilds and players the power gain beyond max level (Vr14) is important to get the top leaderboard spots or world first clears. The mechanics in this game are simple tank and spank while the skill ceiling is fairly low beyond animation canceling so those extra stats matter significantly. The difference in PvP was borderline ridiculous when we tested 720/1200/2400/3600 vs 70cp. You can pretty much say goodbye to any sort of competitive battleground/warzone/arena type or organized ruleset pvp with the introduction of these. Sometimes you need to look at how something like this can spread to other parts of the game and how it can affect it's growth.

Up until this point no one had to pay extra to Zenimax Online Studios in order to be competitive with each other. As a Community Ambassador, I'd think you'd be able to determine what is beneficial to a community or what can become toxic and separate it further. Now things like input on the xp boost might not be in the description or responsibility for that title and you probably have no pull beyond what anyone else has but I think a comparison could be made at the least for this discussion.

There's absolutely no reason to offer increased champion point gain in the cash shop. If you roll over on this one then Zenimax Online Studios (or any other person or organization) will continue to push the envelope to see what they can get away with for the next implementation. Just look at the gaming industry as a whole. They used to include all of the game with the base purchase and extras were accessed by achievement or cheat codes. They flirted with the idea of DLC purchases and they became a staple. After that they started removing from the base game to create DLC to charge in addition to the original price. Then they started to offer extra micro-transactions in addition to the DLC both which were going to be in the game originally but were cut out to profit further. Don't get me wrong. I want them to make money but there are so many other options to profit from that actually fit under the banner of "convenience" besides selling power beyond max level (vr14). I listed them in my last post.

There's also DLC including content that they could gain more revenue from but that topic would just get depressing.

soyhodon

The hypocrisy shown by ZOS is almost unbelievable. Prior to the changes made to this game and before the Crown store was implemented. ZOS stated on multiple occasions that nothing(Crafted wise) sold on the Crown Store will be better than that a player couldn't create themselves.

This included Potions, Food and Drinks along with armor and weapons. So now that these xp potions will be easier and much stronger bought off the store than being player made what is next? Limited Armor or Weapon sets?

The hypocrisy is just too much for someone that has subscribed from the beginning and a beta player. Can't wait for something better to come along, soon as my sub expires its Witcher 3 for me in the meantime.

edited for spelling

Keihndeth

50% is too much. Waaaaay too much. 15%? OK, still alot. 50% makes it MANDATORY in a game that takes as long to level and farm as ESO. In other words, you might as well offer levels for money.

Elder Scrolls has always been and always will be an exploration and adventure series. By instituting this type of system, you're effectively moving ESO towards a WoW-type mindset and removing that. People will always feel forced to choose efficiency over immersion or adventure due to time limitations to stay relevant.

This move effectively provides incentive for rushing through content in a game that is barely a year old. Pair that with the much slower-than-expected content releases, and you're putting players on rails to endgame (again, like WoW). There is a reason I quit WoW and this is a tactic F2P games use, not B2P games. Not a fan at all.

TL;DR - Don't like this change for leveling or champion points. The game doesn't need it.

Exstazik

LF grind partner till december to max out CP

Raghul

after reading all the comments, ZoS needs to open their eyes and know that this move is a very bad one to make.

Shadow-Fighter

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Lionxoft wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Question is what are the mats for Psijic Ambrosia?

I have a sneaking suspicion that it will be much easier to fork over the money for the Crown Store version than to craft them yourself, unlike all of the other Crown Store potions.

I hope ZOS proves me wrong, but... I'm not exactly hopeful, especially considering that these potions are now basically going to be mandatory for anyone above lv50.

I think we should just be happy there is an in-game version we can craft.

@jamesharv2005ub17_ESO Having an in-game version makes absolutely no difference if the ingredients aren't worth the time in comparison to the cash shop version.

That's a common f2p monetization cop out.

No its just fact. Also "worth the time" is very subjective. Mainly a matter of opinion. While the definition of pay to win is pretty clear. The only way to get a pay to win item is to pay for it. I know people like to make their own opinion about what it is to them. Fact is the definition says its pay to win only if you HAVE to pay for it with money from the cash shop.

Glory

Beating the dead horse here, but I wanted to throw my opinion in as well. I was very excited to see the XP pots (and was going to buy them to level through content), and am now abhorred to see they will affect champion point gain.

Please leave XP gains towards nonveteran and veteran levels alone, and remove champion point gains as this will become a must have or fall behind scenario. People arguing it's not P2W do not realize that these potions will undoubtedly become ridiculously expensive to buy in game. Either do this or put a cap on champion points gained per day, per week, per month, something.

XP buff towards levels, not towards the champion system.

DDuke

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Question is what are the mats for Psijic Ambrosia?

I have a sneaking suspicion that it will be much easier to fork over the money for the Crown Store version than to craft them yourself, unlike all of the other Crown Store potions.

I hope ZOS proves me wrong, but... I'm not exactly hopeful, especially considering that these potions are now basically going to be mandatory for anyone above lv50.

I think we should just be happy there is an in-game version we can craft.

@jamesharv2005ub17_ESO Having an in-game version makes absolutely no difference if the ingredients aren't worth the time in comparison to the cash shop version.

That's a common f2p monetization cop out.

No its just fact. Also "worth the time" is very subjective. Mainly a matter of opinion. While the definition of pay to win is pretty clear. The only way to get a pay to win item is to pay for it. I know people like to make their own opinion about what it is to them. Fact is the definition says its pay to win only if you HAVE to pay for it with money from the cash shop.

There is a difference between "this is a fact" and "this is how I wish things would be".

I said I would be done with this conversation, but I feel morally obliged to discourage people from cultivating words such as "fact" in contexts where they have zero attachment in.

Obviously, if "winning" is beating people in PvP, getting world firsts and staying on top of PvE leaderboards when your character's power is directly affected by XP (Champion Points), then any kind of XP Booster is going to be P2W if you have to pay for it. You even wrote this yourself:

Fact is the definition says it is pay to win only if you have to pay for it with money from the cash shop

.

And this is (I believe) exactly what Lionxoft meant.

If the ingredients are so rare (or so expensive) that you are forced to pay $$$ for the booster (because you cannot afford them, or cannot grind the ingredients and yet still "win" by maximizing CPs), then it is what it is: you HAVE to purchase them from Cash Shop, or accept that you aren't going to "win", or even stay relevant in PvE/PvP when compared to people who purchase them. In other words: P 2 W.

Desolationz

soyhodon wrote: »

The hypocrisy shown by ZOS is almost unbelievable. Prior to the changes made to this game and before the Crown store was implemented. ZOS stated on multiple occasions that nothing(Crafted wise) sold on the Crown Store will be better than that a player couldn't create themselves.

This included Potions, Food and Drinks along with armor and weapons. So now that these xp potions will be easier and much stronger bought off the store than being player made what is next? Limited Armor or Weapon sets?

The hypocrisy is just too much for someone that has subscribed from the beginning and a beta player. Can't wait for something better to come along, soon as my sub expires its Witcher 3 for me in the meantime.

edited for spelling

You seem to be very confused friend. Have you actually done the maths because if you did you would realise that the Psijic Ambrosia (Crafted Version) is actually better than the Crown Experience Scroll. Let me help you:

Crown Experience Scroll

- Obtaining one of these from the Crown Store provides you with a pack of 5 Crown Experience Scrolls. Each one provides 2 hours of 50% exp boost: 2 hours x 5 scrolls = 10 hours of 50% exp boost. (Very smart decision from ZOS to sell it as a 5 pack as this makes people like yourself think that the Crown Store version is better than the in-game crafted version even though it's actually not tricking you into wanting to buy the crown version and that's what they want even though they say to you the in-game version is better even though the 5 pack is actually better in terms of simple convenience)

Psijic Ambrosia

(Provided you have Brewer and Connoisseur passives)

- You'll make 4 units every time you craft this recipe and each one will last 50 minutes. That's 3 hours and 20 minutes, a total of 1 hour 20 minutes more effective than a single Crown Experience Scroll.

So technically speaking ZOS have kept their word regarding not making Crown Store items more effective than player crafted items. However that doesn't change the fact that buying it off the Crown Store with a pack of 5 (which equates to 10 hours) seems far more convenient but then again we have no idea how easily the Psijic Ambrosia can be produced in-game.

Guys this isn't, technically speaking, Pay 2 Win. P2W would be the ability to instantly buy 3600 Champion Points or any amount for that matter AND also have it instantly take affect on your character. Both the Psijic Ambrosia and the Crown Experience Scroll are simply a 'Pay To Boost Your Toons Levelling' so you still need to spend time in game levelling regardless although twice as fast, you're still required as a player to make the most out of it and people surely will.

Something I've realised about game developers and the business brains behind them is that they are well aware P2W is frowned upon and is outright wrong but still offer P2W like services but indirectly.

Honestly still don't know how I feel about this because I don't have a clue how much of a difference Champion Points actually make on a character in terms of the margins of power it may provide. I've heard people say after 600 Champion Points the rest are ineffectual passives in terms of a toons DPS and then I hear other people say that the margins in power from '720/1200/2400/3600 vs 70cp' are tremendous and ruin competitive PvP.

The question is can you really argue that someone who has made the most of their exp boosts (whether self crafted or purchased) does not deserve their acquired Champion Points that they still ultimately have to earn?

Time is a big investment, time and money is an even bigger investment and that's what people where doing when paying the Subscription fee for this game in the beginning. This essentially is the same thing but the subscription fee is disintegrated and disguised by the separate benefits available in Crown Store+ESO Plus but is still entirely optional because you can buy and play ESO without paying anything else and there are definitely individuals out there who wont mind being behind but can dream of one day catching up(and they can catch up if they can reliably make the Psijic Ambrosia for themselves or buy them with in-game coins) to someone who has paid irl money and still whoop their ass in PvP or at the least hold their own. At the end of the day a good team of players, which is what PvP is all about, will take down any fully maxed player so is it that much of a big deal? We have no idea... yet...

SpAEkus

There's no Maintenance/Patch banner yet tonight. Has this been postponed?

Sentinel

@Desolationz

The Champion system is most definitely a relevant factor in player power. The PTS has templates with 3600 CPs. It might be best to see for yourself how drastic these changes are. The problem isn't entirely so much that the variant from the crown store is better (which remains to be seen firsthand), but that it affects the champion system at all.

Desolationz wrote: »

Honestly still don't know how I feel about this because I don't have a clue how much of a difference Champion Points actually make on a character in terms of the margins of power it may provide. I've heard people say after 600 Champion Points the rest are ineffectual passives in terms of a toons DPS and then I hear other people say that the margins in power from '720/1200/2400/3600 vs 70cp' are tremendous and ruin competitive PvP.

The question is can you really argue that someone who has made the most of their exp boosts (whether self crafted or purchased) does not deserve their acquired Champion Points that they still ultimately have to earn?

The Champion system is one meant to be progressed over a long period of time. The power differences are massive. Possibly even as powerful as being an Emperor. They might have worked for those XP pots, or they might have used crown variants, but when they affect CP gain, power gain over time is affected. The change wont be immediate, but after a time the gap between players will be massive, especially the gap between casuals and hardcore players. I've stated it before, but I'll bring it up again: Experience boosters will only magnify the problems already persisting with the Champion system (these problems being an encouragement of grinding, a gap between players that cannot be filled, etc).

If experience boosters affect Champion gain, a lot of negative reputation will follow. Casual players will be discouraged by their inefficiency, player versus player will become less focused on skill but rather on stats (which it is to say, it isn't already), and new players will be presented with only one option to remain competitive in the game: Experience boosters. This will drive away customers, bring negative reputation, but also provide income for ZOS from those who actually do buy the crown variant. For the health of the game, the experience boosters should not be used to make the champion grind lessened for those who use them.

However, if you would like, I'd implore you to test what a maxed CP player, same stats, same build, can do against a 0 CP player on the PTS. The difference might be bigger than you think.

Aunatar

The Champion system is one meant to be progressed over a long period of time. The power differences are massive. Possibly even as powerful as being an Emperor. They might have worked for those XP pots, or they might have used crown variants, but when they affect CP gain, power gain over time is affected. The change wont be immediate, but after a time the gap between players will be massive, especially the gap between casuals and hardcore players. I've stated it before, but I'll bring it up again: Experience boosters will only magnify the problems already persisting with the Champion system (these problems being an encouragement of grinding, a gap between players that cannot be filled, etc).

If experience boosters affect Champion gain, a lot of negative reputation will follow. Casual players will be discouraged by their inefficiency, player versus player will become less focused on skill but rather on stats (which it is to say, it isn't already), and new players will be presented with only one option to remain competitive in the game: Experience boosters. This will drive away customers, bring negative reputation, but also provide income for ZOS from those who actually do buy the crown variant. For the health of the game, the experience boosters should not be used to make the champion grind lessened for those who use them.

However, if you would like, I'd implore you to test what a maxed CP player, same stats, same build, can do against a 0 CP player on the PTS. The difference might be bigger than you think.

This. Quote it.

anitajoneb17_ESO

It ALL depends on how arre/difficult/easy it will be to get the ingredient "perfect roe" in the game. And noone knows that yet.
Why start arguing "P2W" without any fact ?

KyyuU

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

It ALL depends on how arre/difficult/easy it will be to get the ingredient "perfect roe" in the game. And noone knows that yet.
Why start arguing "P2W" without any fact ?

That is not true So Long the exp-Boost have a effect on the Endgame (Championsystem) player will be forced to use it and the grind begins and new player need even longer to catch up if they wanna play competitve.

This Exp-Boost is not player friendly for the old ones and for the new player aswell.

I wanna enjoy my time in Eso and not grind my ass off but i also wanna play on the top level and that is not possible anymore without grinding.

Seth_Black

CP boost = more players cap faster, more players leave game (1'st group bored with owning everyone in cyro, 2'nd group tired of being owned), if farming spots like snake pools in Reaper's March won't get nerfed prepare to get massive lags in that zone (I already feel sorry for all people trying to quest in there when it hits live).

We'll see which faction has more people fully committed to brainless farming pretty soon in Cyriodiil. Two weeks give or take and any hardcore farmer will cap it and campaign maps will be in one color all the time

...well played

P.S. I've never believed there will be a Pay2Win element in ESO ...but that's it

anitajoneb17_ESO

KyyuU wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

It ALL depends on how arre/difficult/easy it will be to get the ingredient "perfect roe" in the game. And noone knows that yet.
Why start arguing "P2W" without any fact ?

That is not true So Long the exp-Boost have a effect on the Endgame (Championsystem) player will be forced to use it and the grind begins and new player need even longer to catch up if they wanna play competitve.

This Exp-Boost is not player friendly for the old ones and for the new player aswell.

I wanna enjoy my time in Eso and not grind my ass off but i also wanna play on the top level and that is not possible anymore without grinding.

None of this has to do with these potions being or not being "P2W" though...

As to your particular concern, "having to grind to play competitive" imho it's more related to lack of new content rather than XP boosters. If there were new content people would play it instead of grinding, with or without boosters.

Now it looks like most "elite" players have quit for the time-being, waiting for new content : this week on PC/EU, the weekly ranking does not even have 100 top scores registered... so I would not worry too much about not being competitive any more or not being able to catch up : if people are bored they'll take a break from the game instead of grinding endlessly, with ro without XP potions.

Seth_Black

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

As to your particular concern, "having to grind to play competitive" imho it's more related to lack of new content rather than XP boosters. If there were new content people would play it instead of grinding, with or without boosters.

Now it looks like most "elite" players have quit for the time-being, waiting for new content : this week on PC/EU, the weekly ranking does not even have 100 top scores registered... so I would not worry too much about not being competitive any more or not being able to catch up : if people are bored they'll take a break from the game instead of grinding endlessly, with ro without XP potions.

Ok ...so following your approach
All good players that left due to 'no content' issue will come back and find themselves sitting on CP level of what? 75? 100? 150? Till new content arrives everyone who actively plays will be WAY ahead. To make it simple and without farming:
1 CP a day to use current enlightenment to the limit
new content release within 2-4 months (yes I'm that optimistic and no, no sarcasm here)
that leaves us with 60-120 CP added to current status.
I'm personally on Champion Level 200, so without farming I'll be 260-320 when everyone who left comes back.
I don't believe they will catch up just by completing new content and catching up with some old quests/daungeons or whatever. They will be forced at some point to farm CP to be competitive in PvP or match requirements of so called 'pro-raiding-guilds'
and since they won't be sitting on millions of gold to buy potions, most probably will be too lazy to farm materials or gold and will want instant boost to catch up with others ...that leaves us crown store only (at least for some time).
And all active players after finishing everything new will have already stacked all materials for exp potion and prices will go sky high My best guess is first potion on sale will end up for 250k or so ( not counting optimists posting for 500k and higher) and recipe (if it's possible to sell it) will reach possibly up to 1M.
Say what you want ...but you know how crazy people get when it comes to new stuff on sale.

Results?
Economy - broken again
Less guild activity - everyone farming cp or fishing for roe (to get rich fast)
More players leaving when they see their 'cp progress level' at the bottom compared to everyone else

Still think it's such a good idea?

P.S. And don't get me wrong ...I love the game for what it is and I'll actively sub till the end like I did from day one.
Just hoping to enjoy it longer...

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

I cant wait till maint is over so I can buy some of these.