Experience Point Boosters

Varicite

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Bouvin wrote: »

Experience Boosters for CP is Pay-2-Win.

Plain and Simple.

I called this when the B2P announcement was made and people said I was a fool for saying so. But just a short couple of months, here we are with boosters for CP available in the Crown Shop.

And as far as the Ambrosia goes.. my bet is the ingredients are so rare that it won't really matter.

From the first announcement they were going b2p they said eventually there would be xp boosts on the store. Since they are in the game also it is NOT pay to win because you dont have to buy them with rl money. You can craft them yourself. You dont have to pay for them. So its not pay to win.

That narrow definition doesn't really hold water. If you could buy the best gear in the game from the cash shop or even directly buy champion points with real money that would obviously be p2w... and yet by your definition (you can get that gear in game, you can grind out those CPs in game) it would not be p2w.

You still have to earn the xp to get those CP. Its not pay to win because you can actually earn MORE CP by using the crafted ones.

Again, if the crafted ones are readily available. This remains to be seen.

It doesnt matter if they are more readily available. If they were selling CP then yes thats pay to win. Selling xp boosts you still have to go out and earn those CP. You just earn them faster if you pay for it. Mainly for people who dont have 24/7 to spend in the game.

Strange, you seem to have added the word "more" to what I said. But that's not what I actually said.

I was alluding to the fact that if the in-game version is too hard to obtain by normal means (farming, buying, etc), then it really doesn't matter at all that it's available in-game.

I like to think that they wouldn't do that, but I also wanted to think that they'd limit these potions to normal XP / VP and exclude CP gain from them.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

DDuke wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Bouvin wrote: »

Experience Boosters for CP is Pay-2-Win.

Plain and Simple.

I called this when the B2P announcement was made and people said I was a fool for saying so. But just a short couple of months, here we are with boosters for CP available in the Crown Shop.

And as far as the Ambrosia goes.. my bet is the ingredients are so rare that it won't really matter.

From the first announcement they were going b2p they said eventually there would be xp boosts on the store. Since they are in the game also it is NOT pay to win because you dont have to buy them with rl money. You can craft them yourself. You dont have to pay for them. So its not pay to win.

That narrow definition doesn't really hold water. If you could buy the best gear in the game from the cash shop or even directly buy champion points with real money that would obviously be p2w... and yet by your definition (you can get that gear in game, you can grind out those CPs in game) it would not be p2w.

You still have to earn the xp to get those CP. Its not pay to win because you can actually earn MORE CP by using the crafted ones.

Again, if the crafted ones are readily available. This remains to be seen.

It doesnt matter if they are more readily available. If they were selling CP then yes thats pay to win. Selling xp boosts you still have to go out and earn those CP. You just earn them faster if you pay for it. Mainly for people who dont have 24/7 to spend in the game.

If the CP progression wasn't virtually infinite, you'd be correct.

The people who don't play 24/7 aren't going to reap any benefits by this, since there will also be people who do play 24/7 and use those potions. It's a lose-lose, you're simply asking to be able to pay more money to ZOS & as return separate yourself (and other $$$ heroes, regardless of how much they play) from the rest of the population.

Armitas wrote: »

I think they could get the money that they want from this, and close the CP gap if they sold these in seasons based on the CP total statistics.

For example Scroll 1 works for CP 100-150, scroll 2 works for CP 150-200 (numbers for example only). The scrolls could only be used to help players catch up, not get massively ahead of players through money. It's not pay 2 win because it's only helping you keep up, not exceed everyone.

Save face, make money, mitigate the gap, everyone wins.

This works.

If this is the case then they could sell absolutely nothing but cosmetics on the store. That wont finance a game.

KyyuU

If this is the case then they could sell absolutely nothing but cosmetics on the store. That wont finance a game.

There are other ways to use the Crownstore. Booster for a system with almost infinity Grind? Yes looks the people are fine with it when eso becomes the next "asia grinder mmo"

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

KyyuU wrote: »

If this is the case then they could sell absolutely nothing but cosmetics on the store. That wont finance a game.

There are other ways to use the Crownstore. Booster for a system with almost infinity Grind? Yes looks the people are fine with it when eso becomes the next "asia grinder mmo"

Like what?

KyyuU

repairkits soulgems motivs horseskills are allready in the game
They also can put in exp potions but without effeckting cp

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

KyyuU wrote: »

repairkits soulgems motivs horseskills are allready in the game
They also can put in exp potions but without effeckting cp

But that would be pay to win. Remember you said anything that helps you is pay to win. So the only acceptable thing then would be cosmetics.

KyyuU

That is not what i said

Dru1076

Exstazik wrote: »

Dru1076 wrote: »

This is a good thing, and quite fairly introduced, provided that this recipe is not so rare I never find it. It's only going to be really fair if the recipe is readily available to all.

10mil gold will be fair?

No. That would be ridiculous.

Another thing I am hoping is that the ingredients wont be available only in Upper Craglorn...its crowded farming there as it is thanks to Nirnhoned....but then if its provisioning I guess that won't be the case.

Slurg

So console release is done and we're all anxiously awaiting news on the new content promised to be coming *after console*.

Instead we get an announcement on new XP/CP boosters coming to the cash shop. (Come on you know the ingredients for the created potions are going to be so hard to get almost everyone will buy them in the crown store.)

Count me among the unimpressed.

Not really looking forward to coming back after my vacation at this rate.

Please do better next time.

Attorneyatlawl

DDuke wrote: »

The correct way ZOS should go about implementing these, is having the ingredients be rare in <VR14 content, and then drop abundantly at the end game.

That way, you incentivize the people who are mainly interested in "leveling up faster" or "catching up" to purchase them from the store, while avoiding the P2W aspect of making them "must buys" for the competitive people who have reached the end game.


But who am I kidding, these are going in as leaked in the datamined screenshots, costing 2 epic ingredients & 1 legendary ingredient, which will last you for 2 hours of goblin grinding, just so no one who plays a lot & wants to stay competitive can afford staying so, without purchasing them from Cash Shop.

Brilliant, until every competitive player apart from Credit Card Warriors leaves the game.

Slurg wrote: »

So console release is done and we're all anxiously awaiting news on the new content promised to be coming *after console*.

Instead we get an announcement on new XP/CP boosters coming to the cash shop. (Come on you know the ingredients for the created potions are going to be so hard to get almost everyone will buy them in the crown store.)

Count me among the unimpressed.

Not really looking forward to coming back after my vacation at this rate.

Please do better next time.

It's the same thing we've seen for just shy of two years, now. Maybe we will see an improvement, someday, but the history leaves me pessimistic.

KyyuU wrote: »

If this is the case then they could sell absolutely nothing but cosmetics on the store. That wont finance a game.

There are other ways to use the Crownstore. Booster for a system with almost infinity Grind? Yes looks the people are fine with it when eso becomes the next "asia grinder mmo"

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

KyyuU wrote: »

If this is the case then they could sell absolutely nothing but cosmetics on the store. That wont finance a game.

There are other ways to use the Crownstore. Booster for a system with almost infinity Grind? Yes looks the people are fine with it when eso becomes the next "asia grinder mmo"

Like what?

Good ways to go about cash shop monetization:
-New game world areas including new gameplay types, or story content.
-Minigames (competitive/multiplayer horse racing, tournament arenas (heck, allow people to bet which person will win and the contestants being allowed to customize the rule set such as best two out of three pre-encounter), card games or other gold-sink/in-game-economy-inflation reducing games of chance, etc.
-Cosmetics and vanity items.
-Fun consumables such as fireworks to celebrate an in-game accomplishment like reaching #1 on a leaderboard, or becoming Emperor, things people would want to buy to mark the occasion.
-General communication with the community on a regular basis to foster goodwill and keep players engaged with the latest happening in Elder Scrolls Online.
-Among others.

Bad ways:
-"Pay to win", "pay to skip", "pay to progress", "pay to respec" (race changes so far are slated to require real money even though they affect a critical passive skill line for any non-introductory level play with effects ranging as high as 4-7% raw damage and 10% resources which not only affect your damage even further but your build's sustainability and gear choices as a whole),
-"Pay to save" (respec scrolls to avoid 20,000 gold respec costs or frequently changing 1,500-4,500 gold costs multiple times a night due to no multi-spec system in the design and needing to change morphs and attributes oftentimes when going between various types of pve and pvp gameplay; additionally you often need to tediously run out to an in-world mundus stone even once discovered alongside all of this).
-"Pay to avoid" (goldsinks such as repair costs, experience booster potions which directly increase your rate of gain for your character power for all toons on your game account, and others).

This isn't very difficult to get the idea of.... is it?

Celas_Dranacea

This does not concern me.

I am a semi competitive casual. I play roughly 10 hours a week, and if you play more than that maybe you should consider how you are spending your life, though I admit it would be a lot of fun.

I will never be as powerful as the top 10% of players who will probably die young from lack of exercise.

What I'm concerned with is keeping up with the upper 50-90th percentile of players, who play 2x as much as me. If I spend 1000 crown once a month (I'm an eso+ member) I get 20 hours of play time with boosted xp and can earn around 5-10 more cp per month.

Seems helpful to me. There will always be people above and below you. If there is this ruling class of crazy nerdy players, I don't really care as there are thousands of people who are not like that playing this awesome game.

I do hope that people can acquire the crafted potions at no more than 500 gold per 30 minutes once the economy stabilizes.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

The entire point of stores in a game like this is the "pay to skip" you mentioned. None of the items you want them to sell would generate enough revenue to keep the game alive. ALL mmos these days sell xp pots.

Snit

I am glad to see these potions coming now, as I'm trying to level an alt. The VR grind is long. I will buy them.

That said, they should have a cooldown. Perhaps you could use a maximum of four hours/ day.

Suru

.

Slylok

I am sure the in game potions will be rare at first but the market will be flooded with them in no time. Not an issue.

Ley

People who cry p2w about everything will obviously cry about this but I think it was eloquently done. I hope the crafting materials for it are pretty rare in game (not too rare though) or they mine as well just give everyone a permanent 50% exp boost all the time.

Players will have a new item to farm, sell and make money off of and zos have one too.

Simzani

You are boiling. Pustules appears on your skin, and it turns red. But the little frogs still think it feel warm here.

Katsibrokos

Great news!

Varicite

Celas_Dranacea wrote: »

What I'm concerned with is keeping up with the upper 50-90th percentile of players, who play 2x as much as me. If I spend 1000 crown once a month (I'm an eso+ member) I get 20 hours of play time with boosted xp and can earn around 5-10 more cp per month.

I wonder what makes you think that if you, as a self-proclaimed casual competitive player, are going to be using these potions, that the other 50-90th percentile of players who also deem themselves to be casual won't also be using these potions..

Doesn't seem like you will be actually making any progress when compared to them, you'll just be paying more in-game gold to keep up w/ everybody in the same manner that you have been. It's just more expensive now.

Celas_Dranacea wrote: »

I do hope that people can acquire the crafted potions at no more than 500 gold per 30 minutes once the economy stabilizes.

I would hope this too, but the cost of a single purple mat already exceeds that in-game, and it's going to be using TWO of them as well as a gold mat and others. I don't think this price point is going to be very likely at all.

Morvul

Teiji wrote: »

Well done Zenimax, I shall now resubscribe and begin regularly purchasing Crowns.

Very sincerely I ask if I may be so bold; whoever is able, please buy whoever is responsible for these additions to the game a strong drink. An item which will allow us casual players to never fear being unable to do content due to being able to increase our power level at a solid rate is very wonderful.

and how does that XP boost business change your situation?
Those players who were hardcore enough to grind out 500+ CP already are exactly the players who will always run XP boosts....
So how does a XP booster help YOU to catch up?

Morvul

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

It doesnt matter if they are more readily available. If they were selling CP then yes thats pay to win. Selling xp boosts you still have to go out and earn those CP. You just earn them faster if you pay for it. Mainly for people who dont have 24/7 to spend in the game.

and a good chunc of the 24/7 folks will use XP boosters as well... so this changes... what exactly?
(exept a good increase to ZoS bottom line - which is principly a good thing, but imho not in that maner)

Morvul

Armitas wrote: »

I think they could get the money that they want from this, and close the CP gap if they sold these in seasons based on the CP total statistics.

For example Scroll 1 works for CP 100-150, scroll 2 works for CP 150-200 (numbers for example only). The scrolls could only be used to help players catch up, not get massively ahead of players through money. It's not pay 2 win because it's only helping you keep up, not exceed everyone.

Save face, make money, mitigate the gap, everyone wins.

exactly this!

ZoS would obviously loose out on the money of the "hardcore grinder" crowed.
I would think though, that the additional revenu stream generated by other folks staying and buying instead of leaving would more then compensate that...

Turelus

Feel there is too little information to rally speculate on how these will be.

Thanks for posting the information in a thread for some discussion though ZOS it's a step in the right direction in regards to community information and feedback.

Lithium Flower

This is just a completely baffling move.

CP make such a huge impact at 100, 200, 300 and more points. A v14 with less than 100 CP can barely do 10-12k single target dps over more than 30 s. Someone with 200-300 points can do nearly 50% more. At 500 points you have players approaching nearly 30k single target DPS. And they also have more spell resistance, more healing, more armour, faster regeneration, more damage resistance as well as the perks. Diminishing returns are fine with 10-15 points but CP stack up and 30+ points starts to make a real, tangible difference.

There is no way a v14 with 35 CP (brand new player) can even hope to think about competing in PvE against someone with hundreds of CP.

There is already a culture that's emerged amongst the most competitive, of grinding a new character to v10(the point after which there are no grind spots), then delete and repeat the process for the CP.

This system will make not only doing this mandatory but also keep you bleeding gold and crowns in perpetuity if you want to compete in the trial leaderboards.

Already entering Cyrodiil as a solo player or a small group is just gifting AP to the enemy factions. Time to Kill is in fractions of a second with no reaction time. There was a time when you had to be at least v1 to be mostly viable in PvP, currently you stand no chance unless you are v14, a few months and you need CP rank 500 just to be able to take part in a siege from start to finish.

Seriously, what is happening to this game?

Throw in an XP boost potion for below max rank players to help them catch up faster but there should be no way at all to pay for more CP like this is. CP gain should be slow and incremental, representing a vast legacy of play time that functions as a nice, significant but not over-powering boost to power.

Anyone who thinks this is a catch up mechanic for casual or new players instead of a substantial speed boost for the most hardcore to race ahead and destroy any hint of fair competition in the game is deluding themselves.

KyyuU

Lithium Flower wrote: »

This is just a completely baffling move.

CP make such a huge impact at 100, 200, 300 and more points. A v14 with less than 100 CP can barely do 10-12k single target dps over more than 30 s. Someone with 200-300 points can do nearly 50% more. At 500 points you have players approaching nearly 30k single target DPS. And they also have more spell resistance, more healing, more armour, faster regeneration, more damage resistance as well as the perks. Diminishing returns are fine with 10-15 points but CP stack up and 30+ points starts to make a real, tangible difference.

There is no way a v14 with 35 CP (brand new player) can even hope to think about competing in PvE against someone with hundreds of CP.

There is already a culture that's emerged amongst the most competitive, of grinding a new character to v10(the point after which there are no grind spots), then delete and repeat the process for the CP.

This system will make not only doing this mandatory but also keep you bleeding gold and crowns in perpetuity if you want to compete in the trial leaderboards.

Already entering Cyrodiil as a solo player or a small group is just gifting AP to the enemy factions. Time to Kill is in fractions of a second with no reaction time. There was a time when you had to be at least v1 to be mostly viable in PvP, currently you stand no chance unless you are v14, a few months and you need CP rank 500 just to be able to take part in a siege from start to finish.

Seriously, what is happening to this game?

Throw in an XP boost potion for below max rank players to help them catch up faster but there should be no way at all to pay for more CP like this is. CP gain should be slow and incremental, representing a vast legacy of play time that functions as a nice, significant but not over-powering boost to power.

Anyone who thinks this is a catch up mechanic for casual or new players instead of a substantial speed boost for the most hardcore to race ahead and destroy any hint of fair competition in the game is deluding themselves.

exactly !

Evandus

Lithium Flower wrote: »

This is just a completely baffling move.

CP make such a huge impact at 100, 200, 300 and more points. A v14 with less than 100 CP can barely do 10-12k single target dps over more than 30 s. Someone with 200-300 points can do nearly 50% more. At 500 points you have players approaching nearly 30k single target DPS. And they also have more spell resistance, more healing, more armour, faster regeneration, more damage resistance as well as the perks. Diminishing returns are fine with 10-15 points but CP stack up and 30+ points starts to make a real, tangible difference.

There is no way a v14 with 35 CP (brand new player) can even hope to think about competing in PvE against someone with hundreds of CP.

There is already a culture that's emerged amongst the most competitive, of grinding a new character to v10(the point after which there are no grind spots), then delete and repeat the process for the CP.

This system will make not only doing this mandatory but also keep you bleeding gold and crowns in perpetuity if you want to compete in the trial leaderboards.

Already entering Cyrodiil as a solo player or a small group is just gifting AP to the enemy factions. Time to Kill is in fractions of a second with no reaction time. There was a time when you had to be at least v1 to be mostly viable in PvP, currently you stand no chance unless you are v14, a few months and you need CP rank 500 just to be able to take part in a siege from start to finish.

Seriously, what is happening to this game?

Throw in an XP boost potion for below max rank players to help them catch up faster but there should be no way at all to pay for more CP like this is. CP gain should be slow and incremental, representing a vast legacy of play time that functions as a nice, significant but not over-powering boost to power.

Anyone who thinks this is a catch up mechanic for casual or new players instead of a substantial speed boost for the most hardcore to race ahead and destroy any hint of fair competition in the game is deluding themselves.

This. Exactly this...

Suntzu1414

Really appreciate this new item.


But to the point. When will we be seeing new CONTENT.


Kill Well
ST

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

You guys are exaggerating big time. You dont do 50% more dps because you have a few CP more than the other guy. Give me a break.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Lithium Flower wrote: »

This system will make not only doing this mandatory but also keep you bleeding gold and crowns in perpetuity if you want to compete in the trial leaderboards.

Trial leaderboards are for the ones who enjoy very high level competition, and those who put the time/effort and resources into it. But every player can or should be able to enjoy raiding without being in the leaderboards, just trying to improve their own scoring for instance. Many people enjoy sporting competition even if they don't have access to the Olympics.

I also believe that skill (I mean, player's skill, not toon's skill) is far more important than CPs in the overall result. As well as team strategy and coordination. A well organized team of skilled players with 200 CPs will achieve more and better than a non coordinated less skilled players with 400 CPs each.

Now one can argue that top teams have both skills AND CPs, but that will be so few players (30 on each megaserver maybe) that it doesn't affect everybody gaming fun and competitivity.

Exstazik

atm i can grind 10 cp per day,it's 300 per month.With this potions i need (3200 CP more) grind 3200/ (10*1,5)=213 days without "E".So totally i need 200 days(with "E"+potion).In this way we will see in december-january some Champion_Points_pack.
And math:1 CP per 25 min.I need 3000 CP,it's 1250 hours.
1000 crowns:10 potion (20 hours total)
1250 hours=62,5 potions.
So 62,5 pots it's ~6250 Crowns.

ZOS pls add "3600 CP" for 10 000 Crowns.I will take that!