Experience Point Boosters

Varicite

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

huh well thats odd ive been playing the "end game" since before CP was even introduced. Ive never once worried about leaderboards etc. I just play to have fun as do 99% of the population of the game.

And that's fine, but let's not pretend that these don't exist for all players to aspire to.

And thats fine but dont expect them to focus everything they do on how it will affect less than 5% of the people playing.

And yet, that completely bogus percentage that you just touted is who the Devs go to most often when inviting players to the Guild Summits to discuss the future of ESO.

It's also who they listen to the most when balancing upcoming content. That "less than 5%" has a noticeable influence on the gameplay of the entire playerbase, whether you like it or not.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

DDuke wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

huh well thats odd ive been playing the "end game" since before CP was even introduced. Ive never once worried about leaderboards etc. I just play to have fun as do 99% of the population of the game.

Oh, so you think 99% of people playing this multiplayer game do not play it for the competitive aspect, or find fun in it specifically?

Can you state a source for this, or are you just coming up with numbers as you please?

You honestly think the majority of people in the game #1 are vr14 and #2 are worried about leaderboards? I would bet if I could see the numbers most people who play this game dont even have a VR level character. Of those that do noone I know is worried about some leaderboard. So its even a small percentage of those.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Varicite wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

huh well thats odd ive been playing the "end game" since before CP was even introduced. Ive never once worried about leaderboards etc. I just play to have fun as do 99% of the population of the game.

And that's fine, but let's not pretend that these don't exist for all players to aspire to.

And thats fine but dont expect them to focus everything they do on how it will affect less than 5% of the people playing.

And yet, that completely bogus percentage that you just touted is who the Devs go to most often when inviting players to the Guild Summits to discuss the future of ESO.

It's also who they listen to the most when balancing upcoming content. That "less than 5%" has a noticeable influence on the gameplay of the entire playerbase, whether you like it or not.

Ya and how did that go? It was simply a show and there has been only one. So ya these xp pots are coming monday. So obviously the people they consulted didnt have a problem with them either.

Varicite

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

huh well thats odd ive been playing the "end game" since before CP was even introduced. Ive never once worried about leaderboards etc. I just play to have fun as do 99% of the population of the game.

Oh, so you think 99% of people playing this multiplayer game do not play it for the competitive aspect, or find fun in it specifically?

Can you state a source for this, or are you just coming up with numbers as you please?

You honestly think the majority of people in the game #1 are vr14 and #2 are worried about leaderboards? I would bet if I could see the numbers most people who play this game dont even have a VR level character. Of those that do noone I know is worried about some leaderboard. So its even a small percentage of those.

I would bet that if you told them that no matter how hard they try, they will always be behind everyone else, a lot of them would be discouraged.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Varicite wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

huh well thats odd ive been playing the "end game" since before CP was even introduced. Ive never once worried about leaderboards etc. I just play to have fun as do 99% of the population of the game.

Oh, so you think 99% of people playing this multiplayer game do not play it for the competitive aspect, or find fun in it specifically?

Can you state a source for this, or are you just coming up with numbers as you please?

You honestly think the majority of people in the game #1 are vr14 and #2 are worried about leaderboards? I would bet if I could see the numbers most people who play this game dont even have a VR level character. Of those that do noone I know is worried about some leaderboard. So its even a small percentage of those.

I would bet that if you told them that no matter how hard they try, they will always be behind everyone else, a lot of them would be discouraged.

New players will always be behind. This is about older players upset that others can gain CP faster who maybe dont play as much. Anyways this prob be my last comment on the thread. You go ahead get the last word.

Varicite

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

huh well thats odd ive been playing the "end game" since before CP was even introduced. Ive never once worried about leaderboards etc. I just play to have fun as do 99% of the population of the game.

Oh, so you think 99% of people playing this multiplayer game do not play it for the competitive aspect, or find fun in it specifically?

Can you state a source for this, or are you just coming up with numbers as you please?

You honestly think the majority of people in the game #1 are vr14 and #2 are worried about leaderboards? I would bet if I could see the numbers most people who play this game dont even have a VR level character. Of those that do noone I know is worried about some leaderboard. So its even a small percentage of those.

I would bet that if you told them that no matter how hard they try, they will always be behind everyone else, a lot of them would be discouraged.

New players will always be behind. This is about older players upset that others can gain CP faster who maybe dont play as much. Anyways this prob be my last comment on the thread. You go ahead get the last word.

That's.. not at all what anyone is saying.

People have been saying that it would be NICE if that's how it would work, because everyone recognizes the need for newer players to be able to catch up to those who have been playing for a while now.

The issue that people have is that the players who are already ahead will ALSO be using these (and probably moreso than those who are most in need of catching up), thus either maintaining or widening the gap between players.

That's the problem. As for the "last word", it's an internet forum and I'm discussing a topic that I care about in a game that I and many others have invested a lot of time in. If that bothers you, I'm not sure what to tell you, buddy.

ClearArrow

So here is where the game is going pay-to-win....

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

ClearArrow wrote: »

So here is where the game is going pay-to-win....

I thought Imperial race was the first pay to win item.

Malthorne

This makes me sad . I'm all for xp boosts for alts that don't affect CP gain...but this...I really really wish ZOS would reconsider.

codybrewer78b14_ESO

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

ClearArrow wrote: »

So here is where the game is going pay-to-win....

I thought Imperial race was the first pay to win item.

I'm thinking the Imperial racial passives don't have much on 3,600 Champion Points worth of buffs.

reften

impossible to give feedback until we know how rare the ingredients are for the crafted version. And how rare the receipt will be.


Receipt farming will be INSANE to begin with. Just insane. I will play non-stop till I get the receipt.

Once getting the receipt, if it's as hard as making a V10 purple receipt, then i'm all for it. Nice work here. Perfect example of p2w vs. pay for convienence. I give you guys big kudos.

NOW, if the receipt is as rare as imperial motif and requires 20 bervez to make 4 potions, then cyas, enjoy your p2w game.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

codybrewer78b14_ESO wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

ClearArrow wrote: »

So here is where the game is going pay-to-win....

I thought Imperial race was the first pay to win item.

I'm thinking the Imperial racial passives don't have much on 3,600 Champion Points worth of buffs.

They are selling 3600 CP on the store? When did this happen?

Toris

This is crap.... Come on.. Xp boosts count towards CP gain, p2w here we go... Should limit it, like 50 cp and after that the pots will not work on cp gain etc, that way new players can get a few cp faster or something.. I just don't like this..

Elloa

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Elloa wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

huh well thats odd ive been playing the "end game" since before CP was even introduced. Ive never once worried about leaderboards etc. I just play to have fun as do 99% of the population of the game.

The XP boost potion will have impact on the fun of EVERY players, may they be casual, hardcore or middle ground.

How?

It will create bigger gap between players in PVP, ruining the fun for many.
it will change social relations, and the way some players play the game. As they will feel forced to be "efficient" during the duration of their potion.
this will make players get the "time is money" attitude and having no more time to"slack" or taking their time to enjoy the game.
Basically this will create a bigger gap between competitve players or wannabe competitive players and the others.

This may pervert the game.

HeroOfNone

Woah, wait, "psijic ambrosia"? I though we already agreed to call this Skooma. Hmm what drug could we call the crown store equivalent? Maybe Hist sap tabs?

Kerioko

I disagree with anyone calling this P2W because the XP drinks will be available in game. It they were just selling XP pots in the crown store, with no in-game equivalent, then it would be P2W.

I have no problem with XP potions to aid in faster leveling (lvl1 - v14), I just have a problem with them affecting CP given how much CP affects balance in things like PVP and endgame PVE.

With these boosts, my concern is, what happens when the hardcore create such a gap between them and the casuals that the casuals all quit do to not having any chance of competing...who then keeps the lights on!

Slurg

Elloa wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Elloa wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

huh well thats odd ive been playing the "end game" since before CP was even introduced. Ive never once worried about leaderboards etc. I just play to have fun as do 99% of the population of the game.

The XP boost potion will have impact on the fun of EVERY players, may they be casual, hardcore or middle ground.

How?

It will create bigger gap between players in PVP, ruining the fun for many.
it will change social relations, and the way some players play the game. As they will feel forced to be "efficient" during the duration of their potion.
this will make players get the "time is money" attitude and having no more time to"slack" or taking their time to enjoy the game.
Basically this will create a bigger gap between competitve players or wannabe competitive players and the others.

This may pervert the game.

I agree with this. Additionally this will foster more competition for mobs and strife between PVE players in veteran zones. Even if you're a casual player who doesnt care about any of this, Gods help you if you happen to get in the way of someone with a booster who is trying to grind out the extra CP they paid real money for.

wraith808

reften wrote: »

Receipt farming will be INSANE to begin with. Just insane. I will play non-stop till I get the receipt.

Did they say whether we'll have to find the recipe? I didn't even take that into consideration...

... I wonder if the recipe will appear as a crown item eventually...?

Varicite

wraith808 wrote: »

reften wrote: »

Receipt farming will be INSANE to begin with. Just insane. I will play non-stop till I get the receipt.

Did they say whether we'll have to find the recipe? I didn't even take that into consideration...

... I wonder if the recipe will appear as a crown item eventually...?

People are saying that the recipe is split up into 6 parts that need to be combined, much like the chapters of the Dwemer motif.

Only unlike the Dwemer motif, you won't be able to make anything at all until you have all of the chapters.

nimander99

I for one am VERY excited about this and cannot wait till Monday! This has been what I've been waiting for to really grind CP's... I've still been grinding em but now I can feel like I'm getting the most bang for my time/buck/crafting mats

Edit: I guess the whole P2W argument has been facerolled by ZoS inclusion of craftable exp boosts

Solid_Metal

i....i don't know what to react tbh...
if they screw up when implementing this, this potentially could be a P2W item, and probably my 1 way ticket out from the game..

Armitas

Kerioko wrote: »

I disagree with anyone calling this P2W because the XP drinks will be available in game. It they were just selling XP pots in the crown store, with no in-game equivalent, then it would be P2W.

This is what MMO's do to give it an illusion it's not P2W. They set up a series of time consuming and broadly intolerable hurdles that will eventually funnel you back into the cash shop. They don't release solutions that compete with the cash shop, they release solutions that will be defeated by the cash shop.

TheFalcon19

In the end, it will all come down to how rare the crafting material will be.
I wouldn't mind if the recipe itself is Imperial motif rare, but once the recipe is found, we should be able to find just enough materials to keep the buff up almost all the time, otherwise it will always be the inferior version regardeless of the provisioning passives.
Why?
Because let's be honest here, we all know that some people will keep buying the crown store version to essentially gain a permanent 50% xp buff, so that needs to be the benchmark we use to compare the two versions.

Sentinel

Allright, experience boosters, nice. We can craft them ourselves, even better.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

(Edited for emphasis)
When can you use these?
Both Psijic Ambrosia and the Crown Experience Scroll can be used at any level or Veteran Rank. Their boosts apply towards advancing your level, advancing your Veteran Rank, and for advancing your Champion Points. They do not apply towards things that don’t work off of Experience Points, like the Mages Guild and crafting skill lines.

And this is where I think it should stop. Experience boosters should be used to allow players to level their alts and etc more quickly, as that in itself is already a grind for those who have experienced all the content they wanted. The Champion system is meant as a long term progression. By speeding it up, through any means, it will create a greater gap in the community. Those who play less, don't have time, means or wish to get experience boosters will be left behind faster and faster than before. This in itself will widen the gap between players.

Experience boosters may be available to everyone, but not everyone will use them. Those who use them will progress quicker, and those who already grind CP and use them will progress quicker than that. The ones who don't use them are left behind, despite not changing their playstyle. The ones who grind CP and use these will progress the quickest and are being rewarded for it. Experience boosters affecting the Champion system take everything already in fault with the champion system (the widening gap, need for grind, reward for playing unmeaningful content, ie grinding), and expands them even further.

When people feel like they're being left behind, they tend to become discouraged, and generally unmotivated. Others will see this feature as a motivator as well. These people will buy psyjic ambrosia or the crown store variant. It may cause people to buy from the crown store, but it will also cause people to leave. A lot of people already know of the negativity that games get, this feature will do nothing but cause negativity if it affects the champion system.

This new feature seems to be the result of a need for money, but I'd say there are healthier ways for the game to receive money apart from things like this. Look into adding additional character slots, appearance changes, personal aesthetics and maybe even racial and/or factional changes. Overall, the adding of these may actually be a good thing for the game. Especially adding in a craft-able variant. But that doesn't diminish the negative from it. I implore this small bit to be changed. Make experience boosters a convenience to simply level a character faster in the wake of no other way to do so, not a way to progress a character faster than before and create larger gaps in characters.

Varicite

Well, I think it all really boils down to this:

The community at large is very accepting of XP boosters that help people level, but don't effect CP gain. I haven't actually seen anybody who is opposed to this type of XP boost that helps people get through VRs faster or catch under-50 alts up. It's been discussed for quite a while here on the forums.

However, once you hit VR14, you no longer need to buy these kinds of XP boosters even if they are wildly popular amongst those who are playing catch up.

But then there's the Champion System, an extremely long grind for anyone who wants to fully flesh out the entire thing (though it can be argued that once you've hit around 1k-1600 CP, you're putting points into things you really don't need at all).

Anybody who understands the type of power gains there are to be had via CP is grinding them and they'd be a fool not to use something that helps them grind them out faster, because let's be completely honest, grinding CP is boring. It wasn't intended to be, of course, just as we were never intended to spend most of our playtime running around in a circle AoE grinding goblins.

...but that's what it is, because the power gains from CP trump ANY set of gear that you can possibly get your hands on in the game. And where there is power to be had, there are going to be gamers chasing that power.

I think the draw of the cash to be made from players who want to better their character more or less trumps any concerns they might have about whether we (the players) believe that there is any semblance of integrity left in the game, because... well, money.

Because if they did truly care whether or not we perceived them to be "greedy" or any other similar adjectives, they would have simply made the XP boosters not apply to CP gain. But they didn't.

Enodoc

Varicite wrote: »

Because if they did truly care whether or not we perceived them to be "greedy" or any other similar adjectives, they would have simply made the XP boosters not apply to CP gain. But they didn't.

I agree with the entire post, but I just wanted to comment on this bit. As I said above, since CPs are intrinsically tied to XPs, I don't think it would be "simple" at all for these boosters to apply to VR levelling and not CP gain. They're tied together too much. Now if these boosters would be only usable for anyone below V14, I think we may get somewhere. Let the V1-V13 players get a CP boost until they reach V14 so that they can catch up quicker, but as soon as they reach V14, no more boosters.

KiriX

I don't think that it is a p2w, but I know some people who are sure that it is really p2w, and people like they will be whine at forums. So this sad (

codybrewer78b14_ESO

Enodoc wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Because if they did truly care whether or not we perceived them to be "greedy" or any other similar adjectives, they would have simply made the XP boosters not apply to CP gain. But they didn't.

I agree with the entire post, but I just wanted to comment on this bit. As I said above, since CPs are intrinsically tied to XPs, I don't think it would be "simple" at all for these boosters to apply to VR levelling and not CP gain. They're tied together too much. Now if these boosters would be only usable for anyone below V14, I think we may get somewhere. Let the V1-V13 players get a CP boost until they reach V14 so that they can catch up quicker, but as soon as they reach V14, no more boosters.

They have Enlightenment which boosts CP and not XP, so I don't see why they couldn't reverse that.

Enodoc

codybrewer78b14_ESO wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Because if they did truly care whether or not we perceived them to be "greedy" or any other similar adjectives, they would have simply made the XP boosters not apply to CP gain. But they didn't.

I agree with the entire post, but I just wanted to comment on this bit. As I said above, since CPs are intrinsically tied to XPs, I don't think it would be "simple" at all for these boosters to apply to VR levelling and not CP gain. They're tied together too much. Now if these boosters would be only usable for anyone below V14, I think we may get somewhere. Let the V1-V13 players get a CP boost until they reach V14 so that they can catch up quicker, but as soon as they reach V14, no more boosters.

They have Enlightenment which boosts CP and not XP, so I don't see why they couldn't reverse that.

Enlightenment takes the XP you earned, applies a multiplier to it, and returns it as CP progress. The trigger for the CP progress is the earning of the XP. It can't work in reverse, because it's specifically the earning of XP that gives you CP progress. So if XP earning is boosted, CP progress is boosted too.
Here's that flowchart again:
Base XP reward -> XP multipliers (inc boosters) applied -> Actual XP reward -> Enlightenment checked -> CP progress

codybrewer78b14_ESO

Enodoc wrote: »

codybrewer78b14_ESO wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Because if they did truly care whether or not we perceived them to be "greedy" or any other similar adjectives, they would have simply made the XP boosters not apply to CP gain. But they didn't.

I agree with the entire post, but I just wanted to comment on this bit. As I said above, since CPs are intrinsically tied to XPs, I don't think it would be "simple" at all for these boosters to apply to VR levelling and not CP gain. They're tied together too much. Now if these boosters would be only usable for anyone below V14, I think we may get somewhere. Let the V1-V13 players get a CP boost until they reach V14 so that they can catch up quicker, but as soon as they reach V14, no more boosters.

They have Enlightenment which boosts CP and not XP, so I don't see why they couldn't reverse that.

Enlightenment takes the XP you earned, applies a multiplier to it, and returns it as CP progress. The trigger for the CP progress is the earning of the XP. It can't work in reverse, because it's specifically the earning of XP that gives you CP progress. So if XP earning is boosted, CP progress is boosted too.
Here's that flowchart again:
Base XP reward -> XP multipliers (inc boosters) applied -> Actual XP reward -> Enlightenment checked -> CP progress

Well by all means let's break the game because it's too inconvenient to do otherwise.

Here's the flowchart for that:

Base XP reward -> XP multipliers (inc boosters) applied -> Actual XP reward -> Enlightenment checked -> CP progress[/quote] -> Broken Game