Are you happy with these prices?

Tandor

Yes, I'm currently happ with these prices.

I don't have a problem with the prices, I sub and pay my contribution to the game that way but if others want to use the crown store and pay an appropriate price for things that's fine by me. There's certainly nothing listed here that I'd be interested in no matter the price.

The question of what is an appropriate price will be determined by market forces in the usual way - if the items don't sell then the prices will be dropped. They've probably pitched them optimistically at the outset because it's always a lot less controversial to lower prices than it is to raise them.

Danikat

Other (please elaborate).

Thinking about it this would make more sense if the riding lessons were released after some DLC releases, preferably several.

Because that way there might be a significant number of players who are subbing to get access to the DLC and need something to spend their 'free' crowns on. In that situation this would be a lot more appealing.

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Danikat wrote: »

I might be in the supermarket to buy a joint of beef for £15 (real price, I just checked)

Sir, I salute you for your validation of prices to substantiate your argument!

Well I don't normally buy or eat beef so whilst I knew it was a good example of an expensive food item I didn't expect it to be that expensive and thought other people in the same position might think I was making up absurd prices to support my argument.

NewBlacksmurf

Yes, I'm currently happ with these prices.

from all the comments, the price is right. Its high enough to prevent any mind blowing progress.

But understand there are people who have more money to spend or who do not manage money well.
This is a business who needs to make money to keep the game we love running. (This is not an invitation to raise prices) but as is, everything I've seen in the store make sense in relation to rarity or in-game impacts

Preyfar

Yes, I'm currently happ with these prices.

I'm okay with the prices, even if high, because it still keeps value in the game for feeding it yourself, but offers an option if you have extra crowns.

Ilawynde

Other (please elaborate).

IMHO 1000 crowns should get you 60 lessons not 10

We're talking real money here!

RazzPitazz

Mixed Fellings.

StanuvIlaWynde wrote: »

IMHO 1000 crowns should get you 60 lessons not 10

We're talking real money here!

Ok. Come feed my dog everyday for 6 months. I will pay you $30 when the job is done.

Armitas

No, it's daylight ribbery.

I can't imagine getting $10 worth of enjoyment out of any of this. I think my enjoyment would last about as long as gumball so maybe 25 cents or a dollar if its as good a a Pepsi. If their business model works they should keep it though.

lsneakl

Other (please elaborate).

Ojustaboo wrote: »

Yep, I would drop a fair bit of money on crowns if I thought I was getting value for money, current prices I won't buy any.

Their choice.

Rather have 100 people buy at $200 than 2000 people buy at $5

I say it's a good price and possibly even increase it. I won't buy but others will and I am happy to have them bankroll at least part of the game development.

Maxed out character $1000? Piece of V14 armor $100? I think it's fair as it will stop most from buying it but money is still being made.

Edit- I would also rather have 100 buy at $200 than 4000 buy at $5 as we keep the count of artificially inflated characters down.

Fhaerron

Other (please elaborate).

I don't buy anything in the store.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

No, it's daylight ribbery.

rajaniemiorama_ESO wrote: »

StanuvIlaWynde wrote: »

IMHO 1000 crowns should get you 60 lessons not 10

We're talking real money here!

Ok. Come feed my dog everyday for 6 months. I will pay you $30 when the job is done.

Spurious argument.

Such a job would entail actual labour every single time I fed your.

The Devs only have to develop the Lessons once, and then can sell them a million more times at negligible further cost, or effort.


All The Best

firstdecan

No, it's daylight ribbery.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

firstdecan wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Madness1 wrote: »

The price of horse feedings has just been released an purchasable on the crown store. The current price for any of these feedings (or lessons as the game is calling them) is 1,000 crowns (useable only once per day and only adds one point)

This was not clear in the above quote. 1000 Crowns for 10 lessons, use as many as you want per day.

There will be three riding courses that you can purchase: Speed, Stamina, and Carry Capacity. Each course costs 1,000 crowns and contains 10 lessons, and each lesson will increment your skill by one. There is no restriction to how many courses you can purchase and can use as many per day as you’d like, but these lessons will not allow you to go past the 60 cap within any skill.

So, at $10 USD per 1000 crowns, it would cost $180.00 to buy a maxed out horse. That's what a year's sub used to cost.

I'm so glad the sub is free now. I think this officially qualifies as P2W. I realize it can be construed as a convenience item, but you're basically shortcutting 6 months of daily feeding, doubling your storage capacity, and reducing 'return to the fray' times in Cyrodiil with a single purchase (technically 18 purchases, but whatever).

Honest question....when you use the "P2W" phrase or comment.

-Is this definition based upon another persons ability to achieve an in-game task in a shorter time that you or another player if not using the crown store?

If yes, then wouldn't by definition any convenience item be defined by you as P2W?

Where is the line drawn from your perspective? (P2W vs not P2W)

It's a combination of factors all derived from the fact that a new player can now pay to have these advantages.

1 - The price. $180.00 is A LOT of money to most people, so this pricing is obviously targeted at a specific demographic. I would like to say it's targeted at the working adult who can afford this, but the reality is it is probably targeted to the obsessive personality who will pay just for the sense of completion or out of a perception that this will make them more competitive. I understand the rationale as a convenience item, but the price is too high for the convenience offered.

2 - The quickness of it. You can now max out the horse in a day. That effectively doubles your carrying capacity, drastically improves your speed, and makes it easier to bypass trash mobs (not getting knocked off). I like that it doesn't take 6 months to train up the horse, but I would think they would still make the player spend some time to
get there. I would think 14-30 days playing (2 weeks to a month) would be reasonable for the expedited rate.

3 - This is probably just the tip of the iceberg. They're slowly ratcheting up items and more are to come. By the same rationale of convenience, they could just start selling end game gear in the crown store. After all, if you do a Trial \ DSA \ Dungeon enough times, you'll eventually get the drop you want, so paying for it just saves time.

The price is the big thing, that's an outrageous amount of money. I'm not against P2W per se, but when it's such an outrageous price that your average fan can't afford it, it just seems like they're doing their fan base an incredible disservice. I can personally afford that, I spend that kind of money on a dinner out, but I didn't join the game to be an elitist prick spending my cash on things other people can't afford (it's more gratifying to do that IRL anyway). I joined the game to play with other people, and try to be competitive on a relatively equal footing. This does not accomplish that. If this is going to be a path to monetization, they should drop the price (1000 crowns for 60 points is realistic) so it is accessible to their fan base. Otherwise you create a situation where it's just moneyed elites who have all the in game perks, which will leave this a game designed to appeal only to moneyed elites.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

No, it's daylight ribbery.

RedTalon wrote: »

Getting gold to feed horses is easy, fitting punishment for being lazy I say so the prices work less they end up increasing the gold costs also

Yes, getting gold is easy.

No one is arguing that point.

The point in question is why is it possible to increase only one trait per 20 hour period?

Could it be so they could gouge the player-base with micro-transactions with the Crown Store?

Well, that would kind of require that to have been the plan all along, wouldn't it? Abandoning a Sub model and moving to Pay To Play with a Crown Store.

Almost as if they knew they would have to abandon the Subs when Console launched because no Console player is going to pay to access their chose network AND a monthly sub for the game as well.

Oh, wait....

All The Best

Sunver

No, it's daylight ribbery.

Im from Poland and Im not happy with these prices, because in my country the common salary is around 840 bucks/mo. For example I can buy 11500 crowns and starve the rest of month while a person from Switzerland can buy 50000 crowns/mo and still pay his rent and eat.

So, to sum this up, if I were an employed citizen of Switzerland Id be more than happy with the prices. And because Im not I can only whine about blasted thieves called politicians in my country(13 mil workers in my country cant earn more wealth than 3 mil workers in Switzerland?).

MornaBaine

No, it's daylight ribbery.

Completely ridiculous. IF it was account wide and you could bump up ALL of your horses 10 each, MAYBE. IF you could max a single horse from 0 to 60, again, MAYBE. As it stands? Nope. Sorry ZOS but I really do NOT approve of this one.

And still nothing that was ASKED for in your master thread.

luther_revan

No, it's daylight ribbery.

About 180$ for a few changes at the end of a code line, 25$ for a texture on a tiger, the thing is that we should never forget that those crowns are REAL money even if like all other companies they try to hide that behind an other name. I can guarantee without any risk that if the price tag was in $,€ etc. instead of some immaterial crown, people would be a lot more prudent with those things to buy. I'm ok with ZOS making money but those times I just see repaint mount, costume with different colours etc. a lot of lazy stuff, where are new quest, dungeons, zones? even lotro a 10yo game put more content for the price of one coloured mount or two, two times a year. That's a bit sad for eso wich is a really great game not to take advantage of its greatness and wasting it for greediness. I paid my sub since the very beginning until this month and now I can't see any good reason to continue. Lucky for me The Witcher give me a lot of entertainment while waiting for the future of ESO. Patiently waiting...

Phinix1

No, it's daylight ribbery.

lsneakl wrote: »

Ojustaboo wrote: »

Yep, I would drop a fair bit of money on crowns if I thought I was getting value for money, current prices I won't buy any.

Their choice.

Rather have 100 people buy at $200 than 2000 people buy at $5

I say it's a good price and possibly even increase it. I won't buy but others will and I am happy to have them bankroll at least part of the game development.

Maxed out character $1000? Piece of V14 armor $100? I think it's fair as it will stop most from buying it but money is still being made.

Edit- I would also rather have 100 buy at $200 than 4000 buy at $5 as we keep the count of artificially inflated characters down.

This sort of simplistic one-sided forecasting is why so many economists lack tenure. It completely negates the long-term factor as well as the "customer perception" factor which ZOS has struggled with since launch.

Sure you can pander to the "whales" hoping those P.T. Barnum champs from GW2 that drop $2000 or more on purely cosmetic items will carry your business model, but in the long term you will still need positive public opinion of the game to drive development, as well as to maintain the sense of community (and the people to PVP or raid with in-game) that keeps even these lunkers coming back.

If you give the general customer base the perception they are being milked then eventually the whole product will suffer. It is a delicate balance but you can't just cater to the big spenders as that is a sure-fire recipe for failure.

Psychobunni

No, it's daylight ribbery.

I honestly could give a skeevers bum abt the prices bc the crown store offers nothing I have bought or even had the slightest inclination to do so, if someone is silly enough to pay it, by all means ZOS should exploit the crap out of their spending tendencies.

That said, the prices do concern me towards how much they will charge for actual content....but everything goes on sale eventually.

Danikat

Other (please elaborate).

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

RedTalon wrote: »

Getting gold to feed horses is easy, fitting punishment for being lazy I say so the prices work less they end up increasing the gold costs also

Yes, getting gold is easy.

No one is arguing that point.

The point in question is why is it possible to increase only one trait per 20 hour period?

Could it be so they could gouge the player-base with micro-transactions with the Crown Store?

Well, that would kind of require that to have been the plan all along, wouldn't it? Abandoning a Sub model and moving to Pay To Play with a Crown Store.

Almost as if they knew they would have to abandon the Subs when Console launched because no Console player is going to pay to access their chose network AND a monthly sub for the game as well.

Oh, wait....

All The Best

Actually it's probably the opposite.

If you can only train 1 skill point every 20 hours you have to log in every day to keep working on it. In a buy-to-play game that's negligible, but in a pay-to-play game it's one more reason not to miss any time on your subscription.

DaveMoeDee

Yes, I'm currently happ with these prices.

daemonios wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Plenty of people seem to be buying the cosmetic items, so I'm not sure they need to lower prices. I want them to make money off the crown store. That keeps the game going. Real in the whales.

No matter what price they choose, someone will say that it should be less.

You know, this is the attitude that makes me sad.

I want the game to succeed, I really do. My sub is still active (just renewed the other day and until November). Yet the game is slowly but surely going the path of the whale-subsidized forever-dying MMO. As long as a few whales give them enough cash to pay a small team to maintain the servers and throw players the odd bone, they can keep it in a limbo. It's one messed up business model if you think about it.

Sadly, until some DLC comes out, they have no other business plan for PC at the moment.

Bouvin

Mixed Fellings.

I'm just worried at these prices DLC is going to be 8,000 crowns.. or like $80. Sorry, but I'm not blowing $80 on a single zone... I think $30 has to be my upper limit on DLC.

Then again, maybe these items are just to cater to whales? Unless you're subbed and have a bunch of crowns sitting around, the prices do seem steep... but maybe not for everyone.

DaveMoeDee

Yes, I'm currently happ with these prices.

Ojustaboo wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Plenty of people seem to be buying the cosmetic items, so I'm not sure they need to lower prices. I want them to make money off the crown store. That keeps the game going. Real in the whales.

No matter what price they choose, someone will say that it should be less.

Sell 500 items at 10 you make 5000
sell 5000 items at 2 you make 10000

One way excludes a lot of players, the other way makes more money (automated buying system etc, very little extra cost involved selling to 5000 instead of 500.

To my way of thinking, it's a bit like TV companies deciding to charge 1/2 a million for a TV set, sure some people would buy but most the population would never get to have one.

And

5000 items at 10 you make 50000
1000000000 items at 1 you make 1000000000, and we are on the way to being the most successful MMO ever! Apart from the game crashing every time we open our collections window.
...

We can all throw out random, arbitrary numbers. And then someone can throw out other arbitrary numbers.

It just further supports my point that no matter what price they choose, someone will say it should be less.

DaveMoeDee

Yes, I'm currently happ with these prices.

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

The figures are a little suspect in both posts about the "Riding Lessons". One says $180 and this says £153.00

In real terms, if you WERE going to upgrade ALL 180 riding slots, then it would cost you:

18,000 (total Crowns) / 5500 (best crown deal) * £23.99 (Price of best deal)

This gives us £78.51 / £112.90

It's still bloody expensive for what it is.

Then it brings us to the other comments, where people say "Hey, if you want to fast track and avoid months of time investment, then it should cost you a fair amount!".

I tend to agree with this statement, certainly from a player perspective.

If we turn the tables and look at it from a "Corporate revenue stream" it doesn't really make sense. Even taking in to account eh "Whale" scenario. Who out there, is actually going to spend £73 on upgrading a virtual horse just to run a little quicker or have a little more space on a character. I mean, it's a LARGE amount of money.

The simple formula from a company would be either:

Small volume of buyers = High price of item
Large volume of buyers = Lower price of item

As others have also pointed out, if it was close to £30-40 for a fully levelled horse then far more people would consider paying for it. Even I would consider it for another of my Alts.

This would ultimately lead me to believe that ZOS's figures in terms of revenue generating Crown Store players is somewhat lower than even they would like or be happy with.

We probably need to separately consider vanity items and items that impact gameplay/convenience items. Convenience items should be pricey for the sake of making it costly to try to advance without playing. Vanity items can't be too inexpensive or people will lose interest in new vanity items with their already overflowing inventory. It is not easy coming up with the ideal price, but I would also agree with the point someone else made -- start with high prices and see if that works. If it doesn't, try lower prices.

To be fair, it is probably a little unreasonable for me to post since I have no interest in spending money on vanity items so I am being a bit selfish when I endorse using them to raise money for the game.

Slurg

Mixed Fellings.

Bouvin wrote: »

I'm just worried at these prices DLC is going to be 8,000 crowns.. or like $80. Sorry, but I'm not blowing $80 on a single zone... I think $30 has to be my upper limit on DLC.

Then again, maybe these items are just to cater to whales? Unless you're subbed and have a bunch of crowns sitting around, the prices do seem steep... but maybe not for everyone.

There is absolutely no reason to think these prices are connected in any way to the price of future DLC.

DLC has to be affordable to the masses or it flops because too few people buy it. No one wants to play in a dead zone.

Cash shop stuff is for people who want to feel special or take shortcuts (like whales). It is not meant to be purchased by every single player so they can price it as high as they like without hurting business.

Bouvin

Mixed Fellings.

Slurg wrote: »

Bouvin wrote: »

I'm just worried at these prices DLC is going to be 8,000 crowns.. or like $80. Sorry, but I'm not blowing $80 on a single zone... I think $30 has to be my upper limit on DLC.

Then again, maybe these items are just to cater to whales? Unless you're subbed and have a bunch of crowns sitting around, the prices do seem steep... but maybe not for everyone.

There is absolutely no reason to think these prices are connected in any way to the price of future DLC.

DLC has to be affordable to the masses or it flops because too few people buy it. No one wants to play in a dead zone.

Cash shop stuff is for people who want to feel special or take shortcuts (like whales). It is not meant to be purchased by every single player so they can price it as high as they like without hurting business.

Yes. And that seems like the intuitive path...

Hopefully it holds true.

DaveMoeDee

Yes, I'm currently happ with these prices.

Danikat wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Plenty of people seem to be buying the cosmetic items, so I'm not sure they need to lower prices. I want them to make money off the crown store. That keeps the game going. Real in the whales.

No matter what price they choose, someone will say that it should be less.

The problem is people aren't simply divided into those willing to buy cosmetics at any price and those who will never buy them no matter what and by pricing things poorly ZOS does stand to lose out on revenue.

For example I'm quite willing to spend real money on cosmetic items, and pets, mounts and costumes all appeal to me. I also log in almost every day and check the crown store every day I can log in for new items. So in theory ZOS stands to make quite a bit of money from me.

But so far I've bought 5 things, and 4 of those were using up the free crowns I got during the switch-over to TU. (White mane horse, palomino horse, senche-panther pet and the pony guar and bantam guar pets when they were on sale.)

I loved the leopard mount (although it looks a bit chunky for a leopard IMO, I guess because the model was originally for the tiger) and the panther but 2,500 (or £10.90 if you buy the biggest crown pack) is too much IMO. If they were 1,300 crowns like the guar I'd get them, but only because I really like them. For mounts I'm less sure about, like the guar, even that is a bit much.

There's never going to be one price that makes everyone happy of course, but there are ranges that are better. Someone did an excellent example by polling players on how many character slots they'd buy and how much they'd be willing to pay and showed that there's a peak profit if they're priced around....I think it was about $4 each and after that it drops off because fewer people would be willing to buy them, and each person would buy less because they're so expensive.

There are numerous real life examples too. Early on in it's history the makers of Coca-Cola actually found that increasing the price meant they were selling more because people saw it as higher quality and therefore worth getting (whereas before it was marketed partially as a cheaper alternative to similar products), but even now it's one of the most popular drinks in the world they can't simply charge whatever they want, they have to keep it competitive with other drinks, and all those drinks have to be reasonably priced equivalent to other items. I might be in the supermarket to buy a joint of beef for £15 (real price, I just checked) but that doesn't mean I'd also be willing to spend £15 on a bottle of Coke. And not just because I know I could get Pepsi for £1.

Someone will always claim some other price range is better. That is my point. Is there an optimal price? Yes. It might even be the current price. If they found the optimal price and made that the price, we would still have people complaining. It is one thing if people make arguments about price based on the amount of crowns received with a sub. But most of the arguments aren't that. It is also common to start with high prices to set expectations and then to lower them, possibly to a price they always planned, so that people feel they are getting more of a bargain. Consumer psychology is complicated because we are not particularly rational actors.

Your Coke example is very interesting, but not relevant to your point.

Polls like that, unfortunately, are rarely accurate. What people think they will do intellectually is usually not what they actually do in the moment.

Bouvin

Mixed Fellings.

Oh, by the way, these will probably go on sale in the Crown store within the next 2 months. So if you plan on buy a few of them you might wanna hold out.

I of course have no evidence of this.. just intuition having played F2P/B2P games for a few years now.. and seeing that it only took a little while for some stuff to go on sale in the shop already.

granty2008cyb16_ESO

Yes, I'm currently happ with these prices.

you dont have to buy them XD

SeptimusDova

No, it's daylight ribbery.

Youse gotta problem wit dat?? Step outta da car!!

Hey Sammy pop the trunk dis ones goin for a ride.

Since the above is illegal maybe try another way.

Are these lessons sparkly?

now we know some of what was in the 2.6 gigabiggle patch. pre loaded time released fluff.

Can we makez gigabiggle a wurd now?

SeptimusDova

No, it's daylight ribbery.

Danikat go get that beef eat well.

SirAndy

Other (please elaborate).

I voted other because .. i ... don't ... care ...