Animation Canceling good for the game?

Uberkull

Spell Weaving, or Animation Canceling is a technique where you can cancel the spell casting animation of your character. It's done by doing a Light Attack followed by the Skill.

According to ZOS this was an unintended feature that popped up after release and they aren't fixing it. It's not considered a exploit but if macroed, you can be banned.

The benefit of this 'feature' is that it increases your dps and is said to be basically required for end game dungeons. Heals get executed faster also as it skips the animation.

BuggeX

Yes and No.

You Need it to instant block to avoid a hit from boss or Player, there is no time to finish your 1sec cast.
or to cancel your skill with a la to avoid hiting yourself becaus the dk castet wings up.

but this should not allow to cast bot skills at the same time, just the last on

Robotmafia

Yes, it's good for the game.

i like it... it adds an additional level of learnable skill... why shouldn't you do more dps if u master a timing mechanism... and for the lower lvl stuff its not important so the newbies have time before they should learn it...

i suppose they could offer a tutorial for it but there are plenty of youtube videos where one can see what it is and how it works..

idk

Yes, it's good for the game.

It is great that skill can play a role in improving dps. The part of animation canceling that you mention is the easiest part to grasp and anyone can manage it. What is great about this game is the fluid combat and this is just part of it. I hate the standard GCD common in other games.

Additionally, OP mentions the devs are not fixing it. That is not completely accurate from what I recall. The devs mentioned they may change some aspects of it but do not plan to remove it completely.

stojekarcub18_ESO

I never knew this existed

I just youtubed it to see what you're talking about. That's pretty nifty. I'd never heard about it, but I pretty much already do it, I guess. I find myself frantically tapping LMB throughout the entire battles, hoping to get in every bit of dmg that I can. Good to know that I'm not ruining my joints for nothing!

SHADOW2KK

Yes, it's good for the game.

I love it, been doing it since beta, and will continue.

Although I completely disagree with the concept being utilized in macros, learn to do it, if you are inclined, but do not cheat.

gard

Yes, it's good for the game.

uberkull wrote: »

Spell Weaving, or Animation Canceling is a technique where you can cancel the spell casting animation of your character. It's done by doing a Light Attack followed by the Skill.

According to ZOS this was an unintended feature that popped up after release and they aren't fixing it. It's not considered a exploit but if macroed, you can be banned.

The benefit of this 'feature' is that it increases your dps and is said to be basically required for end game dungeons. Heals get executed faster also as it skips the animation.

Whaaa? Light attack followed by a skill? Is there any actual benefit to that?
Doesn't it have a short animation already?
Wouldn't you gain the most from canceling a heavy with a skill, or a skill with a block?

Haqikah

Yes, it's good for the game.

After I heard the devs say (during one of the ESO live streams) that animation cancelling is currently considered a valid game mechanic I am slowly learning the timing. And I must admit it is fun!

Nevertheless if ZoS removes it, I shall shed no tear either. But as stated before it is considered a valid game mechanic nowadays.

Seth_Black

No, it's bad for the game

No, it's constantly abused by using in macros especially in PvP.
Combos like critical rush + wrecking blow + executioner or ambush + wrecking blow + killers blade for example

tested myself, works every time (but no, not using it)
Yes, it's form of cheating (gives unfair advantage over other players)

Animation canceling should work ONLY when you cancel skill with BLOCK or interrupt/bash

Rohaus

Yes, it's good for the game.

The people that want it removed are the ones that are not skilled enough to perform animation canceling. It's not hard..

I saw the same thing in Age of Conan... There used to be this thing called combo skipping... It was basically the same idea... You would cancel out the last part of the animation thus improving mobility and damage output... The cry babies that weren't able to perform the combo skipping whined about it for a few years and then Funcom removed it... I really hope that ZOS doesn't remove animation canceling... Especially because of unskilled whiners...

technohic

No, it's bad for the game

I'd say no even if I do use it. The minute they said that they are ok with somethings long animation causing a delay due to the ability being powerful is the exact time that it isn't good for the game. If things are to be balanced using their speed to fire, than its not right that some can be cancelled easier than others.

If its intended and all clases are treated equal when it comes to this then it would be fine, but I think the only reason it is there is due to their failure to be able to code anything differently rather than intelligently designing it to be part of the game. It being there by surprise means it has not even been considered when doing skill animations and balance.

Milktray

I never knew this existed

I never knew of it but i'll agree bad for the game, as they then would have to balance around everyone using animation cancelling, meaning that actually attacking as intended would be viewed as 'gimping yourself' and invites, refusals, kicks etc would start to be based around 'do they cancel or not'

Uberkull

I never knew this existed

It's a interesting topic. I learned about this over the weekend. It feels like a mini-Mortal Kombat button combo, much easier of course.

The problem I have with it is that it has to be policed by ZOS because to the macros. Keyboard macros are tricky to detect, you have to look at the attack timing. If it's say, .3 seconds every time to execute lightattack+skill+block AND a ZOS GM can see the player consistently hits .3 seconds over say 10 minutes of play, probably using a macro.

This is why other gaming companies have just banned certain keyboards all together. This is easier as it shows up in the system specs as a plugged in USB device name. But then we have Razer mice...you can macro the same on those. So banning people for buying legit hardware isn't the way to go.

For this reason, it should be fixed as I highly doubt ZOS has the resources to police it. But I don't think they're fixing it.

I pulled this from another thread back in 2014:

Shunravi

Yes, it's good for the game.

Milktray wrote: »

I never knew of it but i'll agree bad for the game, as they then would have to balance around everyone using animation cancelling, meaning that actually attacking as intended would be viewed as 'gimping yourself' and invites, refusals, kicks etc would start to be based around 'do they cancel or not'

Animation canceling currently is attacking as intended.

Uberkull

I never knew this existed

Milktray wrote: »

I never knew of it but i'll agree bad for the game, as they then would have to balance around everyone using animation cancelling, meaning that actually attacking as intended would be viewed as 'gimping yourself' and invites, refusals, kicks etc would start to be based around 'do they cancel or not'

I read that ZOS removed a majority of the 'increase attack speed' buffs(other that the weapon trait) because of 'spell weaving' existing.

Emma_Overload

Yes, it's good for the game.

Animation cancelling is a necessary by-product of ESO's snappy, real-time combat. Here are the alternatives:

1) Slow down combat with a forced cooldown through the entire length of each and every animation.

2) Display all animations for their entire length, allowing animations to overlap.

3) Get rid of all animations and make every attack instant.

4) Get out your pencil and paper... Dungeons & Dragons is back, baby!

Options 1, 2 and 3 would ruin ESO. I suggest you try Option 4... or maybe just stop whining and DEAL WITH IT.

Milktray

I never knew this existed

Shunravi wrote: »

Milktray wrote: »

I never knew of it but i'll agree bad for the game, as they then would have to balance around everyone using animation cancelling, meaning that actually attacking as intended would be viewed as 'gimping yourself' and invites, refusals, kicks etc would start to be based around 'do they cancel or not'

Animation canceling currently is attacking as intended.

First post says it is an unintended feature and considered an exploit if macro'd .. if that is correct then it isn't attcking as intended.

Unless it is an actual statement from ESO not just one GM, i'll take it that it wasn't intended and isn't balanced around it.

Uberkull

I never knew this existed

Milktray wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

Milktray wrote: »

I never knew of it but i'll agree bad for the game, as they then would have to balance around everyone using animation cancelling, meaning that actually attacking as intended would be viewed as 'gimping yourself' and invites, refusals, kicks etc would start to be based around 'do they cancel or not'

Animation canceling currently is attacking as intended.

First post says it is an unintended feature and considered an exploit if macro'd .. if that is correct then it isn't attcking as intended.

Unless it is an actual statement from ESO not just one GM, i'll take it that it wasn't intended and isn't balanced around it.

Correct. Look at my post in this thread, post 13.

Edit: I see, as for a official ZOS response...not sure I have found one. I think there is a ESO Live on the subject.

Shunravi

Yes, it's good for the game.

uberkull wrote: »

Milktray wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

Milktray wrote: »

I never knew of it but i'll agree bad for the game, as they then would have to balance around everyone using animation cancelling, meaning that actually attacking as intended would be viewed as 'gimping yourself' and invites, refusals, kicks etc would start to be based around 'do they cancel or not'

Animation canceling currently is attacking as intended.

First post says it is an unintended feature and considered an exploit if macro'd .. if that is correct then it isn't attcking as intended.

Unless it is an actual statement from ESO not just one GM, i'll take it that it wasn't intended and isn't balanced around it.

Correct. Look at my post in this thread, post 13.

Yup. Of course, that's not an 'actual statement from ESO' 'just one GM' saying that it was unintended. however I can make the argument that they rebalanced abilities around it, and I think I can find the multiple posts saying they are embracing it...

Uberkull

I never knew this existed

Shunravi wrote: »

uberkull wrote: »

Milktray wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

Milktray wrote: »

I never knew of it but i'll agree bad for the game, as they then would have to balance around everyone using animation cancelling, meaning that actually attacking as intended would be viewed as 'gimping yourself' and invites, refusals, kicks etc would start to be based around 'do they cancel or not'

Animation canceling currently is attacking as intended.

First post says it is an unintended feature and considered an exploit if macro'd .. if that is correct then it isn't attcking as intended.

Unless it is an actual statement from ESO not just one GM, i'll take it that it wasn't intended and isn't balanced around it.

Correct. Look at my post in this thread, post 13.

Yup. Of course, that's not an 'actual statement from ESO' 'just one GM' saying that it was unintended. however I can make the argument that they rebalanced abilities around it, and I think I can find the multiple posts saying they are embracing it...

For sure. I edited my response. There was a ESO Live on the topic. And they did remove 'increase attack speed' buffs on most everything other than the weapon trait.

I just haven't searched for the links.

Intended? na. In the game, yup. I think you are giving them to much credit to say 'working as intended'.

Molsondry

No, it's bad for the game

Seth_Black wrote: »

No, it's constantly abused by using in macros especially in PvP.
Combos like critical rush + wrecking blow + executioner or ambush + wrecking blow + killers blade for example

tested myself, works every time (but no, not using it)
Yes, it's form of cheating (gives unfair advantage over other players)

Animation canceling should work ONLY when you cancel skill with BLOCK or interrupt/bash

This .

Today I got killed instantly in less then 1 second due to animation canceling macro. I have 24k health in pvp and had almost 20k worth shield on me (healing ward + hardened ward, im not counting Harnes magika it was all physical), boudless storm was also active and im running 5 light /2 heavy for 18k spell resist and 13k physical resist. The recap only registered 18k worth of attacking I had the critical rush + wrecking blow for 18k .. thats all... and i had 24k health + 20k worth shield active.. He missed he first try due to me being really quick on streak stun and spamming healing ward but he got me on second assault he was immune to cc so .....Lol thanks broken animation canceling.

Animation canceling should only be allowed for blocking and doging AND IT NEED TO CANCEL COMPLETELY ANY DMG /HEAL FROM THE CANCELED ANIMATION.


Edit : Also wanted to add that this system is REALLY BAD for pvp. Can you imagine the fluctuation into sent packet witht his in a 40v40 pvp battle wow......What do you think its does to the server when a player try to send 5 packets at the same time because they just registered 5 attack in 1.5 second because of the animation canceling. He doesnt really like it .. now to this x 40-50 in the same alliance server... That + there antibot system with how everything is on the client side... hahahahahahahahahahahahaha just think 2 second about this? How do you think they lag out the servers? Thanks zenimax for your broken code

Shunravi

Yes, it's good for the game.

uberkull wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

uberkull wrote: »

Milktray wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

Milktray wrote: »

I never knew of it but i'll agree bad for the game, as they then would have to balance around everyone using animation cancelling, meaning that actually attacking as intended would be viewed as 'gimping yourself' and invites, refusals, kicks etc would start to be based around 'do they cancel or not'

Animation canceling currently is attacking as intended.

First post says it is an unintended feature and considered an exploit if macro'd .. if that is correct then it isn't attcking as intended.

Unless it is an actual statement from ESO not just one GM, i'll take it that it wasn't intended and isn't balanced around it.

Correct. Look at my post in this thread, post 13.

Yup. Of course, that's not an 'actual statement from ESO' 'just one GM' saying that it was unintended. however I can make the argument that they rebalanced abilities around it, and I think I can find the multiple posts saying they are embracing it...

For sure. I edited my response. There was a ESO Live on the topic. And they did remove 'increase attack speed' buffs on most everything other than the weapon trait.

I just haven't searched for the links.

Intended? na. In the game, yup. I think you are giving them to much credit to say 'working as intended'.

Maybe I am. But I feel like I'm not... But oh well

whether it's 'working as intended' or not, it certainly seems like they made efforts to make it easier to do.

I just want to highlight this bit from the rebalance patch notes.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

BIG CHANGES / UPDATES / NEW FEATURES


Animation Updates

• We have updated and polished all player character animations in both first- and third-person animations, which includes the following:
  • More natural postures and improved timing to combat animations.
  • Improved movement animations to look better overall and significantly reduce foot slip while walking or running.
  • Improved stealth animations.
  • Slightly quicker light and heavy attacks, block, and interrupt animations.
  • Smoother blending between attacks and abilities, particularly those that get interrupted.
  • Light and heavy melee attacks will provide clearer feedback whether they hit or missed.
  • Unique combat stance for Lightning, Restoration, and Fire/Frost staff types.
  • Magical weapons will not persist longer than the ability that creates them. Similarly, equipped weapons and shields will always be visible when they can be used again.
  • Female characters using 2-handed weapons or a bow will no longer have their arms stick to their weapons oddly when blocking or otherwise interrupting an existing animation.

And as for the thread topic, yes I do think it's good for the game. There are issues, but I still think it's good.

LucyferLightbringer

No, it's bad for the game

Animation cancelling shouldn't exist. There should be skill cancelling though. Need to stop casting and block? Sure no problem, but interrupted skill should cancell and do no dmage.

Milktray

I never knew this existed

?? that does not say animation cancelling is in or ok .. all it says is the animations will look and fit better together.

Find something that says 'yes, we endorse animation cancelling'

Uberkull

I never knew this existed

@Shunravi Good find.

I think the bullet point above the one you bolded is even more telling they aren't fixing it, but actually making it a part of the game.
Slightly quicker light and heavy attacks, block, and interrupt animations.

Initially they didn't intend it to exist. Game released and they saw players using it. Looked at their list of priorities and felt this wasn't one of them to fix. Call it a feature and call it 'fixed'.

Shunravi

Yes, it's good for the game.

Milktray wrote: »

?? that does not say animation cancelling is in or ok .. all it says is the animations will look and fit better together.

Find something that says 'yes, we endorse animation cancelling'

I'm looking for a ESO live transcript. In the interim, it says 'Smoother blending between attacks and abilities, particularly those that get interrupted.' Now, I interpret that as 'we are making it easier to use animations to interrupt each other' you may read it differently, but based on other statements, that's how I interpret it. Take it as you will.

Shunravi

Yes, it's good for the game.

uberkull wrote: »

@Shunravi Good find.

I think the bullet point above the one you bolded is even more telling they aren't fixing it, but actually making it a part of the game.
Slightly quicker light and heavy attacks, block, and interrupt animations.

Initially they didn't intend it to exist. Game released and they saw players using it. Looked at their list of priorities and felt this wasn't one of them to fix. Call it a feature and call it 'fixed'.

Which is why I quoted the whole segment...

Molsondry

No, it's bad for the game

ok you guys dont understand why its so broken and need to be fixed lol ? Ill quote myself

Molsondry wrote: »

Also wanted to add that this system is REALLY BAD for pvp. Can you imagine the fluctuation into sent packet witht his in a 40v40 pvp battle wow......What do you think its does to the server when a player try to send 5 packets at the same time because they just registered 5 attack in 1.5 second because of the animation canceling. He doesnt really like it .. now to this x 40-50 in the same alliance server... That + there antibot system with how everything is on the client side... hahahahahahahahahahahahaha just think 2 second about this? How do you think they lag out the servers? Thanks zenimax for your broken code

Tavore1138

No, it's bad for the game

I use it in PvE 'cos you have to but sick of obvious macro combos in PvP. Using killers blade or othe executions skills when I still have over 50% health is a strong hint that someone has pre-keyed rather than actually hitting the correct skill for the situation at hand.

You can also make a safe bet that every single person who has used or will use the word whining or similar terms to try and reframe the debate is one of those scared about how badly they would perform if they couldn't use macros anymore....

Vizier

No, it's bad for the game

Normally I don't worry about such things since animation cancelling is doable by all. I utilize it for extra dps/bust in PvP. I pretty much need to.

I think were animation cancelling goes wrong is that folks macro attacks. Folks can talk about a "learnable skill" in animation cancelling but we all pretty much know that's not what is going on.

So, therefor I vote NO. Animation cancelling should be removed if possible. Additionally I'd love to see some system implemented to determine folks using macros. There's timestamps on damage in, damage out. I don't believe it would be too difficult to determine who's pumping off 5-10 attacks faster than normal and exactly the same every time it happens...just sayin. Pretty sick of seeing one attack but getting hit with multiple others from the same guy. When you can't see it you can't react to it and it's pretty much an exploit IMO.

SHADOW2KK

Yes, it's good for the game.

Macro users should be banned forever IMO, as it is a hack as far as I am concerned, and a exploit.

You can do animation cancelling the proper way without using 3rd party tools to do it, just laziness and a complete noobiness.

But even if animation cancelling was completely taken out, hackers will hack.

Sad fact of any gaming genre that has MP, certain elements will always find some way to get a unfair advantage over fellow gamers.

IMO banning is too good for them, other more drastic measures should be taken, but sela vi.