dont gank at quest NPCs

Adramelach

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Epsilon_Echo wrote: »

The irony is that you disregard other quests as well. Specifically the "kill enemy players" ones.

These quests mean "kill ENEMY Players", not "kill neutral players not fighting you and caught in a dialogue screen in the open". That's the whole difference. But I understand that killing PVEers at NPC quest hubs is the only way for weak coward PVPers to achieve these quest objectives.

This is an argument you can't win with someone like that, because it all comes down to a mindset and approach. That player and others simply have a "I will achieve my goals in whatever way I can, and I simply don't care what impact that has on anyone else" attitude. They don't even understand *why* you would ever take anything else into consideration, it doesn't make any sense to them. Whatever the game lets them do, they *should* do, there's never any question or debate.

It's the sort of player that would laugh at the idiocy of a movie in which, say, a duelist in a match allows his opponent to pick up a dropped sword, or a martial arts movie where the opponent let's the other guy get back up. He'd wonder "why the heck isn't that guy just running that sad loser through?" and laugh.

Epsilon_Echo

Adramelach wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Epsilon_Echo wrote: »

The irony is that you disregard other quests as well. Specifically the "kill enemy players" ones.

These quests mean "kill ENEMY Players", not "kill neutral players not fighting you and caught in a dialogue screen in the open". That's the whole difference. But I understand that killing PVEers at NPC quest hubs is the only way for weak coward PVPers to achieve these quest objectives.

This is an argument you can't win with someone like that, because it all comes down to a mindset and approach. That player and others simply have a "I will achieve my goals in whatever way I can, and I simply don't care what impact that has on anyone else" attitude. They don't even understand *why* you would ever take anything else into consideration, it doesn't make any sense to them. Whatever the game lets them do, they *should* do, there's never any question or debate.

It's the sort of player that would laugh at the idiocy of a movie in which, say, a duelist in a match allows his opponent to pick up a dropped sword, or a martial arts movie where the opponent let's the other guy get back up. He'd wonder "why the heck isn't that guy just running that sad loser through?" and laugh.

That's me who "agree'd" you by the way.

Adramelach

All you're showing there is that Indiana Jones is clearly OP and needs to be nerfed

Varicite

Adramelach wrote: »

Epsilon_Echo wrote: »

I'm glad you can enter the PvP zone and think that you are owed some sort of code not offered by the game.

You have illustrated my point exactly. As I said, you and other players simply show contempt and disregard for other players, couldn't care less what they are trying to accomplish, and simply use every trick and advantage you can to destroy them as quickly as possible, not showing them any sort of "code" or anything else.

I also understand why you have trouble even seeing what my problem is, or why that state of affairs isn't optimal and exactly right, given that any expression of dissatisfaction with that sort of "community" is simply a "weak cop out for losing". I just think it's very disappointing.

Why on earth should I care what you, my enemy, are trying to accomplish? Why should I LET you accomplish anything?

We are enemies. We are not friends.

Ley

To be fair, one of the main reasons I wait for people to finish talking to npcs before I engage them is because I see it as an opportunity for me to hone my skills. If I just dark flare > ice comet > radiant destruction them, I'm not improving my pvp skills.

I totally get why some people are just like screw it, "me see enemy, me kill enemy" and I'm fine with them doing that; it's just not my style.

I wouldn't want players to be safe while talking to an npc, it would provide a cheap exploitable retreat. Maybe just have an option for all windows and dialogs to close the instant someone engages you in pvp. It wouldn't always save you but it would give you a split second more to react.

MrGhosty

So just for giggles, if all of you PvP pros don't want to kill someone who is in quest dialogue why not just support the addition of applying immunity while the player is in dialogue with an NPC? I want to be clear that i don't mean this immunity has a duration beyond when you're actually speaking to the quest giver. The instant you close the dialogue window it's fair game which I'm good with, the ganker still has the slight advantage but I can feel like I'm at least given a fighting chance.

For all the pro tips about shields and this or that people could apply beforehand, not many of those exist for all of the classes so those players may not have the option.

Personally I'd rather they just made one campaign for us "filthy" PvErs so I could enjoy going through this content at my own pace and enjoy exploring. It would also sort out much of the sentiment that PvEers are ruining PvP anyway. We should also be careful about the "it's war, anything goes" mentality because by extension the people that exploit glitches or lag bomb or whatever else is hip these days that is also technically "anything goes" If it's possible in the game, then it's fair. We should pick and choose which dirtbag behavior is just "part of the game" and which isn't. It is all dirtbag behavior and we're clearly on our own in sorting this stuff out.

Varicite

Because it has the potential for abuse by those who are just trying to escape an actual fight.

It's basically the same thing as the kid who screams "BASE! BASE!" suddenly when somebody is about to tag them in a game of tag.

VincentBlanquin

it can be easily implemented to not avoid a fight. maybe when you are engaged to fight when talk to npc, you visually see someone attacked and in two seconds you will be released from dialogue and fight starting. Only i will not be ganking but normal fight and "ganker has only advantage he know where are you and you maynot know when enemy is. There is enough place and opportunity to proper ganking in the wilderness. reasonable compromise?

Varicite

VincentBlanquin wrote: »

it can be easily implemented to not avoid a fight. maybe when you are engaged to fight when talk to npc, you visually see someone attacked and in two seconds you will be released from dialogue and fight starting. Only i will not be ganking but normal fight and "ganker has only advantage he know where are you and you maynot know when enemy is. There is enough place and opportunity to proper ganking in the wilderness. reasonable compromise?

You can tell when you're being attacked because your screen shakes and the edges turn red. It's really incredibly obvious that you're being attacked.

I don't see the difference. What is stopping you from hitting Alt, holding block / using defensives, and trying to recover?

Ezareth

VincentBlanquin wrote: »

i dont call for pve zones, only 2m around npc

of course i dont read text, but they are waiting for the right time when turning and press E

I had 3 people jump me the other day while I was trying to vendor my garbage next to one of those Quest NPCs. They all died and even made it into my last video. The Joy of Cyrodiil is that sometimes there are wolves in sheep's clothing. Be prepared for anything at all times and you'll have an easier time in the zone.

Varicite

Ezareth wrote: »

VincentBlanquin wrote: »

i dont call for pve zones, only 2m around npc

of course i dont read text, but they are waiting for the right time when turning and press E

I had 3 people jump me the other day while I was trying to vendor my garbage next to one of those Quest NPCs. They all died and even made it into my last video. The Joy of Cyrodiil is that sometimes there are wolves in sheep's clothing. Be prepared for anything at all times and you'll have an easier time in the zone.

@Ezareth and I don't often agree lately, but I wholeheartedly agree w/ this sentiment.

Turning around and destroying would-be ambushers is still one of the greatest joys there is in PvP.

Ezareth

Varicite wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

VincentBlanquin wrote: »

i dont call for pve zones, only 2m around npc

of course i dont read text, but they are waiting for the right time when turning and press E

I had 3 people jump me the other day while I was trying to vendor my garbage next to one of those Quest NPCs. They all died and even made it into my last video. The Joy of Cyrodiil is that sometimes there are wolves in sheep's clothing. Be prepared for anything at all times and you'll have an easier time in the zone.

@Ezareth and I don't often agree lately, but I wholeheartedly agree w/ this sentiment.

Turning around and destroying would-be ambushers is still one of the greatest joys there is in PvP.

Easily the most enjoyable thing in PvP for me. I'll often present myself as "bait" and try to appear weak/distracted just to draw them out so I can kill them.....saves me on the detect pots. Most of your stealth ganker types are often the worst PvPers and the biggest ragers...and thus the perfect trolling opportunity. I view AP farming groups similarly.

VincentBlanquin

Varicite wrote: »

VincentBlanquin wrote: »

it can be easily implemented to not avoid a fight. maybe when you are engaged to fight when talk to npc, you visually see someone attacked and in two seconds you will be released from dialogue and fight starting. Only i will not be ganking but normal fight and "ganker has only advantage he know where are you and you maynot know when enemy is. There is enough place and opportunity to proper ganking in the wilderness. reasonable compromise?

You can tell when you're being attacked because your screen shakes and the edges turn red. It's really incredibly obvious that you're being attacked.

I don't see the difference. What is stopping you from hitting Alt, holding block / using defensives, and trying to recover?

difference is you are only disturbed but damage dont count until you are released from dialogue

Varicite

VincentBlanquin wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

VincentBlanquin wrote: »

it can be easily implemented to not avoid a fight. maybe when you are engaged to fight when talk to npc, you visually see someone attacked and in two seconds you will be released from dialogue and fight starting. Only i will not be ganking but normal fight and "ganker has only advantage he know where are you and you maynot know when enemy is. There is enough place and opportunity to proper ganking in the wilderness. reasonable compromise?

You can tell when you're being attacked because your screen shakes and the edges turn red. It's really incredibly obvious that you're being attacked.

I don't see the difference. What is stopping you from hitting Alt, holding block / using defensives, and trying to recover?

difference is you are only disturbed but damage dont count until you are released from dialogue

No, the difference is a safety bubble for people who don't want to pay attention to their surroundings. I don't honestly feel that rewarding ineptness is a good strategy.

VincentBlanquin

safety for 1 or 2 sec is worthless for more than for basic prepare

Varicite

VincentBlanquin wrote: »

safety for 1 or 2 sec is worthless for more than for basic prepare

Exactly, so what's the point of even going out of the way to include this?

You could just actually be aware of your surroundings and hit Alt when you get attacked.

You still have not answered why you can't hit your Alt button.

VincentBlanquin

can, but whats the point when i am cc to death

WebBull

Prepare before you turn in your quest. There are many ways in game to detect/uncover stealth, use them. Figure out tactics and bait them to come out before turning in. Quest with a group because you know the danger. I mean come on , the entire point of PvE in a PvP zone is to add a degree of danger that you can die at anytime. I am not a ganker but this is a ridiculous request.

What's next? It's not honorable to attack you if you are fighting a quest mob? Gankers gank, there are no rules around it.

Varicite

VincentBlanquin wrote: »

can, but whats the point when i am cc to death

Break Free?

VincentBlanquin

WebBull wrote: »

the entire point of PvE in a PvP zone is to add a degree of danger that you can die at anytime.

there is no single article about it, so its only wishfull thinking. imp city will contain no attacking zones too

VincentBlanquin

Varicite wrote: »

VincentBlanquin wrote: »

can, but whats the point when i am cc to death

Break Free?

before you turn off dialogue and break free you are dead or almost dead. Or maybe you are not but tons of players are. and break free is not always functional you know

Varicite

VincentBlanquin wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

VincentBlanquin wrote: »

can, but whats the point when i am cc to death

Break Free?

before you turn off dialogue and break free you are dead or almost dead. Or maybe you are not but tons of players are. and break free is not always functional you know

I can hit Alt and then Break Free before I am almost dead. Then the fight progresses as normal, as though I was just attacked by any of the stealth-based players that frequent Cyrodiil.

And yes, sometimes Break Free doesn't seem to work correctly, but that is a reason to continue working on the responsiveness of Break Free, not a reason to add immunity to players in Cyrodiil.

Yakidafi

Adramelach wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Epsilon_Echo wrote: »

The irony is that you disregard other quests as well. Specifically the "kill enemy players" ones.

These quests mean "kill ENEMY Players", not "kill neutral players not fighting you and caught in a dialogue screen in the open". That's the whole difference. But I understand that killing PVEers at NPC quest hubs is the only way for weak coward PVPers to achieve these quest objectives.

This is an argument you can't win with someone like that, because it all comes down to a mindset and approach. That player and others simply have a "I will achieve my goals in whatever way I can, and I simply don't care what impact that has on anyone else" attitude. They don't even understand *why* you would ever take anything else into consideration, it doesn't make any sense to them. Whatever the game lets them do, they *should* do, there's never any question or debate.

It's the sort of player that would laugh at the idiocy of a movie in which, say, a duelist in a match allows his opponent to pick up a dropped sword, or a martial arts movie where the opponent let's the other guy get back up. He'd wonder "why the heck isn't that guy just running that sad loser through?" and laugh.

You do understand the same goes for you too, yes?

Sanct16

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

... which equals to saying : "if you don't want to be killed in that situation then you should managed to get killed before, otherwise it's your fault"...

What about guilds and groups organizing duels ? We leave them alone : it's their gameplay and messing up with them would be bad behaviour. What's the difference with leaving PVEers alone in Cyrodiil ? None. LEAVE PVEers ALONE IN CYRODIIL ! That's only fair. Sometimes it's unclear what a player is doing here or there and people might engage in combat just for safety, but at NPC quest givers there is no doubt about it.

Really, some of the comments I read in this thread make me want to stay away from PvP. Don't wanna play with such people.

Well he was complaining that people attack when he is in the dialog. Not that he is ganked in general.

NordJitsu

Preyfar wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

Ganking people in the quest areas is literally the best part of the PvP in this game.

I encourage more people to do the quests and gank each other.

Same. I gank/kill wherever I can find people to kill. That said, if I come across somebody who poses no threat - some dude just picking shrooms in Capstone -- I won't attack until they do. Mostly out of respect, but at the same time, if you're just running through Bruma I have to assume if you spot me you will kill me, so I attack out of self preservation.

That... and since I'm Thornblade it's nearly impossible to find somebody to attack where the odds aren't 5:1 against me.

I've done the same in the past. Shortly after launch when I was VR3 or so I ran into a level 30 while I was gathering a Skyshard. He was far away from his home territory and I decided to be nice and let him get it. Instead he turned and went after me. I just jumped around and healed for a while, not attacking back. After about 5 mins of him not getting the picture, I finally killed him.

Another time me and about 10 guildies were doing a delve. We ran into a single level 15 trying to get the Skyshard. I told my guild not to attack until he got it. Then once he had, we murdered his face.


He sent me a PM to thank me for making them hold off.

All that said, I did those things because I chose to be a nice person. If people would rather kill anything and everything on sight, or even wait around to intentionally grief, that's their prerogative.

Almost the whole the reason PvP is so satisfying is because you know there's a person on the other side.

Anyone who's complaining about getting ganked in the PvP zone really just doesn't understand the concept.

I wish ZOS would add more meaningful things to do in Cyrodil so there'd be more small scale PvP and ganking spread throughout the map.

Sacadon

VincentBlanquin wrote: »

"Most of us active on the forums like the environment, risk, excitement etc..."

and what reaction do you expect if here are post like this, obviously dont read thread. many people start their post in sentences i never write, never though. why do you think i spend almost all time from vr1 to vr14 at european thornblade exclusively? because i too enjoy environment, risk, excitement, sneak game around. Thing is i dont want cyrodiil as zone with no rules, with scum behavior, lagsploiting and other in my opinion harmless things. can we talk about this? maybe ask to not attacking when turning quests is not best example what i have in my mind, but its about the same acting, which need to be battled

Apologies, I don't understand your first sentence.

I do agree that there are some people that have no honor/code whatsoever. This I am not in support of. I just don't think that relying on ZOS to change this aspect of the game does anything but cover it up.

Sacadon

Ezareth wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

VincentBlanquin wrote: »

i dont call for pve zones, only 2m around npc

of course i dont read text, but they are waiting for the right time when turning and press E

I had 3 people jump me the other day while I was trying to vendor my garbage next to one of those Quest NPCs. They all died and even made it into my last video. The Joy of Cyrodiil is that sometimes there are wolves in sheep's clothing. Be prepared for anything at all times and you'll have an easier time in the zone.

@Ezareth and I don't often agree lately, but I wholeheartedly agree w/ this sentiment.

Turning around and destroying would-be ambushers is still one of the greatest joys there is in PvP.

Easily the most enjoyable thing in PvP for me. I'll often present myself as "bait" and try to appear weak/distracted just to draw them out so I can kill them.....saves me on the detect pots. Most of your stealth ganker types are often the worst PvPers and the biggest ragers...and thus the perfect trolling opportunity. I view AP farming groups similarly.

So, I have to know, how do you appear weak do you toggle a pet, or all of them... maybe a wedding dress or emotes, LOL.

Varicite

Stand there and pretend to be AFK works for me a lot.

olemanwinter

DanTeales_Inferno wrote: »

.Im not quite sure what your point is ? Since when does the language you speak effect how well you play a game ?

It doesn't. No where in my post did I say they were worse at playing the game. But this kind of illustrates my point. Just because someone is "speaking English" doesn't mean they can communicate and understand meaning. There are differences between cultures that color our understanding and expectations about human interaction. Which is why you read so much more meaning into what I wrote than what I literally wrote. Where did I say there were any less good at playing the game? Please quote me directly.

DanTeales_Inferno wrote: »

.

The top players EU are from all over Europe,[/quote]
Neat.

Now I have no idea what your point is.

DanTeales_Inferno wrote: »

.

I dont think your post warrants the time and effort for it to be removed tbh...[/quote]
Awesome. So glad you came to that decision. Thanks for not removing it......oh wait.

Kronosphere

throw all of your buffs/shields on, then spam e in dialogue