So my subscription has 2 weeks left. Last plea for a better ESO+.

olemanwinter · May 2015

Makkir wrote: »

At about fifteen bucks per month, I would suggest making adjustments in your budget (cancel HBO like I did and use movietube.org instead) and go with the ESO + membership to fund the game we love so we can continue playing tomorrow.

LOL. I don't love this game. I hate it. I kind of enjoy it sometimes but I mostly hate it. I said so earlier (maybe a different thread). It's like some compulsion you get some perverse enjoyment from but hate that you do....like biting your nails.

I don't play with anyone that loves this game. None of us like it....but we are all still here. We can't really say why....but it can't go on forever. And it doesn't. Many have left.

Makkir wrote: »

I might be old fashioned, but people really need to get out of the "What are you going to do for me" mindset.

Are you serious? I don't know anyone at Zenimax. My kids don't play with their kids. We don't go to church together.

They are a business supplying a product for a price.

You are suggesting people pay money to a corporation without asking what they are providing for the money. lol

Gidorick · May 2015

olemanwinter wrote: »

You are suggesting people pay money to a corporation without asking what they are providing for the money. lol

I did it for a year... out of good faith and pretty much every single justification that was given to us for the subscription fee was completely abandoned.

In my very first post on this forum I stated that

Gidorick wrote:

Alright, Zenimax Online! We've bought the game and signed up for the subscriptions now it's time to show us why the money is worth it!

They very flatly did not hold up their side of this transaction. Now I will pay for the content they make... not the content they have yet to make. I didn't want to do business this way. ZOS made this decision. I'm just following suit.

olemanwinter · May 2015

Gidorick,

I don't know if you have kids, but often times parents will pay their kids for work. Chores for allowance. And it never fails that kids will ask for their allowance in advance of the chores. And if you agree, it never fails they will not do the chores on time and in full.

In rhetrospect this game probably should have failed outright at launch. But too many of us thought it would be something different/special/ and/or had affection for TES series and let it color our judgement.

Gidorick · May 2015

LOL @olemanwinter. You are so right. I remember doing that a few decades ago with my parents.

And my affection for the TES series is the only... I repeat... the ONLY reason I'm playing ESO. If this game was in any other world than Nirn, I would have never even given it a second look.

helediron · May 2015

Well said @olemanwinter . From now on it's money only after ZOS actually delivers a DLC. Last christmas was the proper time for new area. Now it is just like with kids - time to get firm and to stop giving leeway.

It looks like one of these is happening in ZOS:
- They follow a rigid two year business plan to maximize profits. They anticipated PC sub loyalty lasts upto one year. Consoles last to next christmas. Then switch to maintenance mode and put everything on sale in crown shop.
- They have serious quality issues or too small teams. Console project got too big. Everything else was stopped and no DLC is ready and they need another half year to make it. Switch to B2P because subs will get angry and because consoles.

Heromofo · May 2015

Talrenos wrote: »

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

Hi guys, there's some very constructive discussion in this thread, but some of the posts are rather inflammatory or otherwise problematic. Please be mindful of the forum rules, and keep all comments and criticism civil and constructive. We will not tolerate trolling, demands, abusive or insulting language toward our community members, developers, company, or ESO itself.

Oh yeah? well we will not tolerate poor game concepts, crappy programming, Server side lag in PvP, broken quests, poor mechanics for grouping, lack of an AH that's worth a damn, laughable banking system, and inability to fix the issues. I'm with the OP; this game blows and is simply not getting any better.

Lol man what a burn you deserve this but remember that AlanG is a good bloke just following orders from above

Heromofo · May 2015

Gidorick wrote: »

I recently noticed that Archeage's sub benefits have been given a bit of an upgrade...

And I've been thinking about The Secret World's subscription too...

Those Exclusive Items and Store Discounts are really enticing.

When compared to what ESO+ gives you...

There's just no doubt that ESO+ is lacking... Now, that being said... The Secret World doesn't give subscribers access to their Expansions (They call Issues, like a comic!)... so the more DLC that comes out for ESO, the more enticing the Subscription will become. Right now, there's just not much to make a person go "yea! That's worth it!"

We are fighting for a better eso plus but we cannot get zos to comment on it at all this time they are dead silent on the matter.

Ysne58 · May 2015

I'll resub when it's worth it for me to do so. The crowns offered by the sub are more expensive than the best pack one can purchase for cash. They have failed to keep so many promises they have either made outright, or implied. At the moment this isn't worth $13.00 (6 month) sub for me.

olsborg · May 2015

I have 2 weeks left on my sub now, I cant justify resubbing. The only real benefit for me is the 10% xp bonus, but that aint worth it in the end. I need and want a better ESO+ before I will resub.

SorataArisugawa · May 2015

Talrenos wrote: »

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

Hi guys, there's some very constructive discussion in this thread, but some of the posts are rather inflammatory or otherwise problematic. Please be mindful of the forum rules, and keep all comments and criticism civil and constructive. We will not tolerate trolling, demands, abusive or insulting language toward our community members, developers, company, or ESO itself.

Oh yeah? well we will not tolerate poor game concepts, crappy programming, Server side lag in PvP, broken quests, poor mechanics for grouping, lack of an AH that's worth a damn, laughable banking system, and inability to fix the issues. I'm with the OP; this game blows and is simply not getting any better.

Poor game concepts? Lack of AH? Laughable banking system? :-D You are sooo damn wrong.
That is all you little biased opinion (alonge with some othere crybabies here in the thread). If you don't like the game (or don't like it anymore) than go away. A rant in this form here in the forums will change nothing. And your opinion stated in this way is worth nothing, too. You are lucky, that they have to be nice to their "custumers". So they tolerate very hyperbolic, useless, agressiv, self-referred and close minded comments from you and some others here...

I hope this thread is going to get closed. I thought the annoying people will come with the P2P change. But it seems that they were here all the time...

Valymer · May 2015

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

Talrenos wrote: »

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

Hi guys, there's some very constructive discussion in this thread, but some of the posts are rather inflammatory or otherwise problematic. Please be mindful of the forum rules, and keep all comments and criticism civil and constructive. We will not tolerate trolling, demands, abusive or insulting language toward our community members, developers, company, or ESO itself.

Oh yeah? well we will not tolerate poor game concepts, crappy programming, Server side lag in PvP, broken quests, poor mechanics for grouping, lack of an AH that's worth a damn, laughable banking system, and inability to fix the issues. I'm with the OP; this game blows and is simply not getting any better.

Poor game concepts? Lack of AH? Laughable banking system? :-D You are sooo damn wrong.
That is all you little biased opinion (alonge with some othere crybabies here in the thread). If you don't like the game (or don't like it anymore) than go away. A rant in this form here in the forums will change nothing. And your opinion stated in this way is worth nothing, too. You are lucky, that they have to be nice to their "custumers". So they tolerate very hyperbolic, useless, agressiv, self-referred and close minded comments from you and some others here...

I hope this thread is going to get closed. I thought the annoying people will come with the P2P change. But it seems that they were here all the time...

"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."

Elsonso · May 2015

Talrenos wrote: »

we will not tolerate poor game concepts, crappy programming, Server side lag in PvP, broken quests, poor mechanics for grouping, lack of an AH that's worth a damn, laughable banking system, and inability to fix the issues. I'm with the OP; this game blows and is simply not getting any better.

I do think they they have some code control problems in the studio. They break way too much stuff with updates and patches that were working before. It has gotten better, but I am not sure if it is because they got themselves under control or whether they just have had fewer opportunities lately.

Server side lag is a quandary. I don't experience it enough to matter in Blackwater Blade NA and I spend no time in the veteran Campaigns, so my personal experience is that this is a non-issue. I think they know exactly what causes the lag, and my spidey sense says that if they fixed the obvious cause the players would scream and leave in greater numbers than lag is causing. Instead, they are trying to find a fix that eliminates or reduces lag while keeping players happy. It is possible that there is some long term rework going on in the background.

Poor game concepts... lack of an AH "that's worth a damn", banking system, grouping. Those are personal opinions, and ones that I generally do not agree with .

The Kiosk concept is perfect for a TES game and ESO and fits into the world quite nicely. I am thankful almost every day that they did not do a global auction house, or anything like it. If they could add some trader locations and resolve the bidding issues, it would be much better.
If by "banking system" you mean number of slots to store things, then you get no sympathy from me. The lack of GM control in guild banks is a problem, but it is not something that is a mainstream problem.
I think that grouping is more complicated than a lot of people realize. A lot of what people ask for in grouping are obvious avenues to exploits. The LFG tool seems to be under-utilized and I think people think it is broken because they don't understand how grouping is intended to work. ZOS would be well served to sit down and explain grouping a lot more clearly instead of following the path of it being "self documenting".

Exploits and Cheating was not mentioned. In light of the recent action by Blizzard, it probably is worth mentioning that lack of action is not an indication of lack of interest.

Inability to fix issues. This is really part of the larger issue. When you set aside design decisions, which are deliberate or working properly, even if people think the game is "broken", you still have a laundry list of bugs and incomplete features. Chat bubbles, which are still in beta, would be one example of an incomplete feature. A lot of people would toss UI into that, but some of the UI things that people think are incomplete are actually deliberate design decisions. Numerous bugs of various severities, from audio and animation issues to skill and ability problems, still exist in the game. While they are knocking them down, it is a slow process. Too slow. ZOS simply is not big enough to handle the game in the current state.I think that they think they are, but they have made concessions on parts of the game, including the original vision.

To them, this game will probably be good enough for what they are attempting to accomplish, but I fear that the players will forever see a game that will never be finished. I mean that in the context of an MMO, so be careful how you read that. There will always be critical function and features that should have been there already, but are either not on the radar or often promised, but never delivered.

Lazrael · May 2015

Wow, this thread is still going strong. I really hope we see this addressed in a meaningful way soon.

Trensharo · May 2015

MercyKilling wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

I find this thread really depressing.

ESO is the only real F2P MMO I ever played.

This isn't a F2P MMO. You had to purchase the "box" so to speak. There is an initial outlay of money to be able to download/install the game, thus it is not F2P.

I suggest you go check out Craptic...err...Cryptic games and three titles of theirs. Three IP's that they totally ruined, imnsho.

Champions Online.
Star Trek Online.
Neverwinter.

All three of those intellectual properties have been totally ruined by the company by making them F2P. Costs you absolutely nothing to be able to download any of them or even all of them.

Go ahead, I double dog dare you. Play those games and then come back here and suggest that anything in this thread is an abomination that you are "sick of hearing about".

Go and experience for yourself how badly a game developer can ruin things. We've got it pretty good here right now, but there is room for improvement...which is what we all want. Improvement.

Neverwinter is certainly a lot more fun than this game, which I probably played for a total of 3 hours after purchase and then uninstalled and never logged in again. It was a total waste of $60, and it's certainly not worth what they're selling it for.

It almost felt like a scam.

charley222 · May 2015

just looking the eso forum very quick and i see nothing change always the same probleme still no end game pvp still lag

ect ... any reason to sub this game anyway i just dont waste my time anymore , good luck and have fun lol
still no orsinium

olemanwinter · May 2015

"lordrichter wrote: »

"They break way too much stuff with updates and patches that were working before.

I stopped reading there. Not because you are wrong, but because that one intro sentence is just so powerful on it's own.

This freaking blows my mind. How you fix things one week and then rebreak them again two weeks later.

Mind blown Zos. Mind...Blown.

Gidorick · May 2015

olemanwinter wrote: »

Mind blown Zos. Mind...Blown.

Lazrael · May 2015

olemanwinter wrote: »

"lordrichter wrote: »

"They break way too much stuff with updates and patches that were working before.

I stopped reading there. Not because you are wrong, but because that one intro sentence is just so powerful on it's own.

This freaking blows my mind. How you fix things one week and then rebreak them again two weeks later.

Mind blown Zos. Mind...Blown.

Honestly, stuff breaking in ways that they didn't expect, I can get. Its the inability, or outright non-desire, to deliver on what they promise in a timely fashion, that I find really concerning.

Gidorick · May 2015

Lazrael wrote: »

olemanwinter wrote: »

"lordrichter wrote: »

"They break way too much stuff with updates and patches that were working before.

I stopped reading there. Not because you are wrong, but because that one intro sentence is just so powerful on it's own.

This freaking blows my mind. How you fix things one week and then rebreak them again two weeks later.

Mind blown Zos. Mind...Blown.

Honestly, stuff breaking in ways that they didn't expect, I can get. Its the inability, or outright non-desire, to deliver on what they promise in a timely fashion, that I find really concerning.

Well, all promises are off now! We get what we get when we get it.

Heromofo · May 2015

Gidorick wrote: »

Lazrael wrote: »

olemanwinter wrote: »

"lordrichter wrote: »

"They break way too much stuff with updates and patches that were working before.

I stopped reading there. Not because you are wrong, but because that one intro sentence is just so powerful on it's own.

This freaking blows my mind. How you fix things one week and then rebreak them again two weeks later.

Mind blown Zos. Mind...Blown.

Honestly, stuff breaking in ways that they didn't expect, I can get. Its the inability, or outright non-desire, to deliver on what they promise in a timely fashion, that I find really concerning.

Well, all promises are off now! We get what we get when we get it.

Reminds me of this old bird my dad was dating when i was a kid.

"Whats for tea"

"You will get what you get and like it!"

Lazrael · May 2015

Gidorick wrote: »

Lazrael wrote: »

olemanwinter wrote: »

"lordrichter wrote: »

"They break way too much stuff with updates and patches that were working before.

I stopped reading there. Not because you are wrong, but because that one intro sentence is just so powerful on it's own.

This freaking blows my mind. How you fix things one week and then rebreak them again two weeks later.

Mind blown Zos. Mind...Blown.

Honestly, stuff breaking in ways that they didn't expect, I can get. Its the inability, or outright non-desire, to deliver on what they promise in a timely fashion, that I find really concerning.

Well, all promises are off now! We get what we get when we get it.

Well we know it wont be until MONTHS FROM NOW at the earliest.

Gidorick · May 2015

Lazrael wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Lazrael wrote: »

olemanwinter wrote: »

"lordrichter wrote: »

"They break way too much stuff with updates and patches that were working before.

I stopped reading there. Not because you are wrong, but because that one intro sentence is just so powerful on it's own.

This freaking blows my mind. How you fix things one week and then rebreak them again two weeks later.

Mind blown Zos. Mind...Blown.

Honestly, stuff breaking in ways that they didn't expect, I can get. Its the inability, or outright non-desire, to deliver on what they promise in a timely fashion, that I find really concerning.

Well, all promises are off now! We get what we get when we get it.

Well we know it wont be until MONTHS FROM NOW at the earliest.

lol. yep. Which is the one of the many reasons I un-subbed.

The reason that ZOS didn't release a DLC pack the DAY they went Buy to Play is beyond me. To go 6 months with pretty much no CONTENT incentive to sub is crazy! Either ZOS made SO much money from the Subs that we all paid them over the past year, or mama-company Zenimax media is having to support them... well there IS the third option, that the Crown Store is providing them with enough revenue to continue operations. I just don't see that being the case.

olemanwinter · May 2015

Lazrael wrote: »

Honestly, stuff breaking in ways that they didn't expect, I can get. Its the inability, or outright non-desire, to deliver on what they promise in a timely fashion, that I find really concerning.

Of course it's going to break in ways they "don't expect". How else would it break? On purpose?

Just because something is an accident doesn't make it okay.

More and more Zos reminds me of my 7 year old son.

The other day he tooks his mother's contact lenses (the little two-pod carrier) and played with them like a space ship...and lost the contacts out of it.

His defense. "It was a mistake". Ummmm, yeah! Duh. lol

Lazrael · May 2015

olemanwinter wrote: »

Lazrael wrote: »

Honestly, stuff breaking in ways that they didn't expect, I can get. Its the inability, or outright non-desire, to deliver on what they promise in a timely fashion, that I find really concerning.

Of course it's going to break in ways they "don't expect". How else would it break? On purpose?

Just because something is an accident doesn't make it okay.

More and more Zos reminds me of my 7 year old son.

The other day he tooks his mother's contact lenses (the little two-pod carrier) and played with them like a space ship...and lost the contacts out of it.

His defense. "It was a mistake". Ummmm, yeah! Duh. lol

Not really sure what point you're trying to make. Did you send him to bed without dinner? How does this correlate? But yes I agree my wording was somewhat poor, lets go with "stuff breaking, accidentally", rather. But honestly, glitches happen, accidents are forgivable, but misleading your consumer base, particularly without adequate explanation, is not.

olemanwinter · May 2015

Lazrael wrote: »

Not really sure what point you're trying to make.

Well, that's okay. He's my son, so sometimes I have to really spell it out for him. But he's family and I love him.

You're someone else's child...I'll let someone else spell it out.

Heromofo · May 2015

Gidorick wrote: »

I recently noticed that Archeage's sub benefits have been given a bit of an upgrade...

And I've been thinking about The Secret World's subscription too...

Those Exclusive Items and Store Discounts are really enticing.

When compared to what ESO+ gives you...

There's just no doubt that ESO+ is lacking... Now, that being said... The Secret World doesn't give subscribers access to their Expansions (They call Issues, like a comic!)... so the more DLC that comes out for ESO, the more enticing the Subscription will become. Right now, there's just not much to make a person go "yea! That's worth it!"

Add in the fact in the long run it might be worth just buying the dlc instead of going through ESO+ that only lets you (RENT) the dlc. If you stop paying for eso plus you will loose all your dlc same goes if you lapse a month.

If the dlc end up been 20-30 dollars a pop
Over 15 dollars a month
They said it takes at least 4 months to make a new area
So at the very best 5 months after testing
5x15 75 dollars
Or 20-30 dollars one time payment

So as it stands the best option is to just not to give zos any money and then just buy the dlc every 5-6 months you would be saving alot and only missing out on 10% exp bonus that you dont even notice.

Gidorick · May 2015

Heromofo wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

I recently noticed that Archeage's sub benefits have been given a bit of an upgrade...

And I've been thinking about The Secret World's subscription too...

Those Exclusive Items and Store Discounts are really enticing.

When compared to what ESO+ gives you...

There's just no doubt that ESO+ is lacking... Now, that being said... The Secret World doesn't give subscribers access to their Expansions (They call Issues, like a comic!)... so the more DLC that comes out for ESO, the more enticing the Subscription will become. Right now, there's just not much to make a person go "yea! That's worth it!"

Add in the fact in the long run it might be worth just buying the dlc instead of going through ESO+ that only lets you (RENT) the dlc. If you stop paying for eso plus you will loose all your dlc same goes if you lapse a month.

If the dlc end up been 20-30 dollars a pop
Over 15 dollars a month
They said it takes at least 4 months to make a new area
So at the very best 5 months after testing
5x15 75 dollars
Or 20-30 dollars one time payment

So as it stands the best option is to just not to give zos any money and then just buy the dlc every 5-6 months you would be saving alot and only missing out on 10% exp bonus that you dont even notice.

My plan, @Heromofo, is to sub for one month when a DLC comes out, play the DLC. If I make it though the DLC and I don't feel the need to own it. Cool beans, I just got the DLC for $15. If I want to own it... I'll just use the 1500 Crowns I got from the 1 month sub, add some more crowns, and buy the DLC. It's like a paid demo with zero risk!

Heromofo · May 2015

Gidorick wrote: »

Heromofo wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

I recently noticed that Archeage's sub benefits have been given a bit of an upgrade...

And I've been thinking about The Secret World's subscription too...

Those Exclusive Items and Store Discounts are really enticing.

When compared to what ESO+ gives you...

There's just no doubt that ESO+ is lacking... Now, that being said... The Secret World doesn't give subscribers access to their Expansions (They call Issues, like a comic!)... so the more DLC that comes out for ESO, the more enticing the Subscription will become. Right now, there's just not much to make a person go "yea! That's worth it!"

Add in the fact in the long run it might be worth just buying the dlc instead of going through ESO+ that only lets you (RENT) the dlc. If you stop paying for eso plus you will loose all your dlc same goes if you lapse a month.

If the dlc end up been 20-30 dollars a pop
Over 15 dollars a month
They said it takes at least 4 months to make a new area
So at the very best 5 months after testing
5x15 75 dollars
Or 20-30 dollars one time payment

So as it stands the best option is to just not to give zos any money and then just buy the dlc every 5-6 months you would be saving alot and only missing out on 10% exp bonus that you dont even notice.

My plan, @Heromofo, is to sub for one month when a DLC comes out, play the DLC. If I make it though the DLC and I don't feel the need to own it. Cool beans, I just got the DLC for $15. If I want to own it... I'll just use the 1500 Crowns I got from the 1 month sub, add some more crowns, and buy the DLC. It's like a paid demo with zero risk!

@Gidorick
Thats a brillant idea lol i think i might do that as well but zos is missing out on money if they dont make changes then lol.

Gidorick · May 2015

Heromofo wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Heromofo wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

I recently noticed that Archeage's sub benefits have been given a bit of an upgrade...

And I've been thinking about The Secret World's subscription too...

Those Exclusive Items and Store Discounts are really enticing.

When compared to what ESO+ gives you...

There's just no doubt that ESO+ is lacking... Now, that being said... The Secret World doesn't give subscribers access to their Expansions (They call Issues, like a comic!)... so the more DLC that comes out for ESO, the more enticing the Subscription will become. Right now, there's just not much to make a person go "yea! That's worth it!"

Add in the fact in the long run it might be worth just buying the dlc instead of going through ESO+ that only lets you (RENT) the dlc. If you stop paying for eso plus you will loose all your dlc same goes if you lapse a month.

If the dlc end up been 20-30 dollars a pop
Over 15 dollars a month
They said it takes at least 4 months to make a new area
So at the very best 5 months after testing
5x15 75 dollars
Or 20-30 dollars one time payment

So as it stands the best option is to just not to give zos any money and then just buy the dlc every 5-6 months you would be saving alot and only missing out on 10% exp bonus that you dont even notice.

My plan, @Heromofo, is to sub for one month when a DLC comes out, play the DLC. If I make it though the DLC and I don't feel the need to own it. Cool beans, I just got the DLC for $15. If I want to own it... I'll just use the 1500 Crowns I got from the 1 month sub, add some more crowns, and buy the DLC. It's like a paid demo with zero risk!

@Gidorick
Thats a brillant idea lol i think i might do that as well but zos is missing out on money if they dont make changes then lol.

Indeed.... the whole ESO+ subscription is half-hearted. It's like they sat down in a meeting to discuss what ESO+ should entail and they took the first 3 things that were said and was like "well... good enough! Let's get a hoagie."

Heromofo · May 2015

Gidorick wrote: »

Heromofo wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Heromofo wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

I recently noticed that Archeage's sub benefits have been given a bit of an upgrade...

And I've been thinking about The Secret World's subscription too...

Those Exclusive Items and Store Discounts are really enticing.

When compared to what ESO+ gives you...

There's just no doubt that ESO+ is lacking... Now, that being said... The Secret World doesn't give subscribers access to their Expansions (They call Issues, like a comic!)... so the more DLC that comes out for ESO, the more enticing the Subscription will become. Right now, there's just not much to make a person go "yea! That's worth it!"

Add in the fact in the long run it might be worth just buying the dlc instead of going through ESO+ that only lets you (RENT) the dlc. If you stop paying for eso plus you will loose all your dlc same goes if you lapse a month.

If the dlc end up been 20-30 dollars a pop
Over 15 dollars a month
They said it takes at least 4 months to make a new area
So at the very best 5 months after testing
5x15 75 dollars
Or 20-30 dollars one time payment

So as it stands the best option is to just not to give zos any money and then just buy the dlc every 5-6 months you would be saving alot and only missing out on 10% exp bonus that you dont even notice.

My plan, @Heromofo, is to sub for one month when a DLC comes out, play the DLC. If I make it though the DLC and I don't feel the need to own it. Cool beans, I just got the DLC for $15. If I want to own it... I'll just use the 1500 Crowns I got from the 1 month sub, add some more crowns, and buy the DLC. It's like a paid demo with zero risk!

@Gidorick
Thats a brillant idea lol i think i might do that as well but zos is missing out on money if they dont make changes then lol.

Indeed.... the whole ESO+ subscription is half-hearted. It's like they sat down in a meeting to discuss what ESO+ should entail and they took the first 3 things that were said and was like "well... good enough! Let's get a hoagie."

Laughed so hard lol because its so true aaah

@Gidorick
What do you think of my new bonus for eso+ members?, in S03E03 just released.

I think it would make a brillant idea for eso plus mate.