Oh ZoS - You have let us down!

Pallmor

The one in ancient Aramaic kind of creeped me out.

SweetRoll

Absolutely unacceptable. My plan was to continue paying the ESO Plus subscription for the foreseeable future, but this just changed my mind. Whoever at ZOS thought this was appropriate needs to go back to their telemarketing job.

Xendyn

LordSkyKnight wrote: »

(Cackles) This is what you all wanted by dropping the subscription and going with a cash shop. Enjoy!

(Laughs while walking away)

Wut?
We wanted nothing of the kind. ZOS sprung that one on us like Ambush.
Know what you're talking about before you post please.

Gidorick

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

I just have to ask:

What is it about these messages that makes people so angry? Why is it this particular form of messaging that you find so hard to ignore? Or are we really just looking for reasons to complain about a completely innocuous practice?

That they come up in the middle of game play (literally) with absolutely no regard to what were doing. The disregard for our game play experience and the need to interrupt us.

ThatNeonZebraAgain

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

Flynch wrote: »

It's a message. Holy cow, guys - have you never played a game where the 'buy now' icon is constantly on the screen and immovable as in other games?

Why on earth would ZOS put their customer ahead of their profit margins when their customers will flip their spit over literally anything?

I feel sad that there are so many people out there who have no experience with gaming before the micro-transaction/monetization craze.

Flynch wrote: »

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

Flynch wrote: »

It's a message. Holy cow, guys - have you never played a game where the 'buy now' icon is constantly on the screen and immovable as in other games?

Why on earth would ZOS put their customer ahead of their profit margins when their customers will flip their spit over literally anything?

I feel sad that there are so many people out there who have no experience with gaming before the micro-transaction/monetization craze, and that now think this it is normal.

Alternatively - there are players like myself who are old enough, experienced enough and have played games since the year dot, who understand that the survivability of a game in the contemporary MMO era rely on their own adaptation to competitive market strain.

In summary - this is how it is guys - like it or lump it. The only variances are whether the company decides to shove this right down your throat, or reminds you that there is a cash-shop in the background behind all this pompous player entitlement.

Ahh yes, entitlement, that fashionable word people sling around to try to brand opposing viewpoints as unreasonable. I suppose holding ZOS to their word of not having an intrusive cash shop is entitled? Nobody is denying the reality (or maybe necessity) of the cash shop. The issue is how they're going about promoting it.

Flynch

nastuug wrote: »

Flynch wrote: »

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

Flynch wrote: »

It's a message. Holy cow, guys - have you never played a game where the 'buy now' icon is constantly on the screen and immovable as in other games?

Why on earth would ZOS put their customer ahead of their profit margins when their customers will flip their spit over literally anything?

I feel sad that there are so many people out there who have no experience with gaming before the micro-transaction/monetization craze, and that now think this it is normal.

Alternatively - there are players like myself who are old enough, experienced enough and have played games since the year dot, who understand that the survivability of a game in the contemporary MMO era rely on their own adaptation to competitive market strain.

In summary - this is how it is guys - like it or lump it. The only variances are whether the company decides to shove this right down your throat, or reminds you that there is a cash-shop in the background behind all this pompous player entitlement.

Hardly constructive. "Like it or lump it." You're telling the consumers, who can decide the overall fate and survivability of this game, to bend over or leave the game. That's just... yeah.

Not really - i'm stating that this is the gaming market right now - I personally would love it if it were sub based - but it's not. So you want ESO to survive? If so, then the path that has been taken will require acts of advertising. If you want to see it crash and burn, well, play it for as long as you like for free and just ignore the messages.

edit: typo

Flynch

firstdecan wrote: »

Flynch wrote: »

It's a message. Holy cow, guys - have you never played a game where the 'buy now' icon is constantly on the screen and immovable as in other games?

Why on earth would ZOS put their customer ahead of their profit margins when their customers will flip their spit over literally anything?

Here's the deal kid, because apparently you've missed the point of the feedback.

Have these players played a game with in-game advertising? Probably. Do they continue to play those games. No. When they signed up for ESO did it have in game advertising. No. Will most of these people continue to play ESO when it's just another crappy MMO with in-game advertising? No.

When it first came out, ESO was a game for "adults" and carried a subscription fee. Now that it's b2p, and inevitably on the path to f2p, it is no longer a game for "adults." It's just another game designed to entice people to needlessly spend money on stupid stuff. The only people who still sub are the TES fans who "want to support the game," but they simply haven't realized the epic "shark jumping" this game has done.

This game has become just another grinder with an overpriced cash shop. The writing is on the wall, or rather, the system message advertisements emblazoned on your screen.

Your beef seems to be with the sub (or lack of) model. I'm talking about what we have right here, right now. You think, honestly, that they will renege on their B2P model and go back to P2P? Put a sensible hat on and see that this is what we have now.

djnapstyb14_ESO

firstdecan wrote: »

Flynch wrote: »

It's a message. Holy cow, guys - have you never played a game where the 'buy now' icon is constantly on the screen and immovable as in other games?

Why on earth would ZOS put their customer ahead of their profit margins when their customers will flip their spit over literally anything?

Here's the deal kid, because apparently you've missed the point of the feedback.

Have these players played a game with in-game advertising? Probably. Do they continue to play those games. No. When they signed up for ESO did it have in game advertising. No. Will most of these people continue to play ESO when it's just another crappy MMO with in-game advertising? No.

When it first came out, ESO was a game for "adults" and carried a subscription fee. Now that it's b2p, and inevitably on the path to f2p, it is no longer a game for "adults." It's just another game designed to entice people to needlessly spend money on stupid stuff. The only people who still sub are the TES fans who "want to support the game," but they simply haven't realized the epic "shark jumping" this game has done.

This game has become just another grinder with an overpriced cash shop. The writing is on the wall, or rather, the system message advertisements emblazoned on your screen.

Whatever. The game is dope. It has kept me engrossed for over a year and I still want to play every day. Even with its problems and sure we need new content soon, it's still way better than all the other games.

its a given that gamers act like entitled children and corps are greedy, but they have to get the $ that they have to get or the game suffers.

let them get money however it works best.

Acrolas

World Messaging should only be used for important server notifications - 'game is coming down in 10 minutes for maintenance' type stuff.

If you want to let people know there's a leopard in the crown store, spawn a leopard outside every major bank with the crown store symbol floating over its head. In four days, somebody is bound to see at least one, it gets the point across without a single word, easy to program and place, and it contributes to the game aesthetic instead of taking away from it.

There's a woman in Mistral raving about a Glenumbra dog so it's not like traveling exotics are without precedent.

Sylvyr

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

Flynch wrote: »

It's a message. Holy cow, guys - have you never played a game where the 'buy now' icon is constantly on the screen and immovable as in other games?

Why on earth would ZOS put their customer ahead of their profit margins when their customers will flip their spit over literally anything?

I feel sad that there are so many people out there who have no experience with gaming before the micro-transaction/monetization craze, and that now think this it is normal.

Once upon a time in our world we understood the economics of and fundamentals of capitalism, money, and society in this environment. We as members of that society had freedom to partake in this system as autonomous participants.

Now we are not free participants, we are targets. We are cash bearing cows. We are force fed marketing at every opportunity. Instead of companies having offerings that consumers can browse of their own free volition and interest, companies not only throw out mass fishing lines into the pond, but try to force the bait and hook down our throats.

No, it didn't used to be this way. Not trying to be the grumpy old man here but the younger generations don't see the trend that is occurring that treats people like walking wallets all needing to be poked at and fished. And more and more aggressively. Over time the changes are not so in your face if they happen slowly enough and go unnoticed to many.

Heromofo

Zos if your going down this path

1. DO NOT PUT THIS CRAP UP FOR YOUR SUBSCRIPTION GAMERS there already helping support you

2. Dont have it in yellow if your have to go this silly path then put it in green or blue

3. Remember that we bought the game and console people will not tolerate this crap for long. Because games that your buy that bug you to keep buying things wont sit well compared to other games on the consoles.

Flynch

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

Flynch wrote: »

It's a message. Holy cow, guys - have you never played a game where the 'buy now' icon is constantly on the screen and immovable as in other games?

Why on earth would ZOS put their customer ahead of their profit margins when their customers will flip their spit over literally anything?

I feel sad that there are so many people out there who have no experience with gaming before the micro-transaction/monetization craze.

Flynch wrote: »

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

Flynch wrote: »

It's a message. Holy cow, guys - have you never played a game where the 'buy now' icon is constantly on the screen and immovable as in other games?

Why on earth would ZOS put their customer ahead of their profit margins when their customers will flip their spit over literally anything?

I feel sad that there are so many people out there who have no experience with gaming before the micro-transaction/monetization craze, and that now think this it is normal.

Alternatively - there are players like myself who are old enough, experienced enough and have played games since the year dot, who understand that the survivability of a game in the contemporary MMO era rely on their own adaptation to competitive market strain.

In summary - this is how it is guys - like it or lump it. The only variances are whether the company decides to shove this right down your throat, or reminds you that there is a cash-shop in the background behind all this pompous player entitlement.

Ahh yes, entitlement, that fashionable word people sling around to try to brand opposing viewpoints as unreasonable. I suppose holding ZOS to their word of not having an intrusive cash shop is entitled? Nobody is denying the reality (or maybe necessity) of the cash shop. The issue is how they're going about promoting it.

I suppose using the argument 'oh if only you understood how it was before B2P you unlearned child' argument is somehow less cliche.

ThatNeonZebraAgain

Acrolas wrote: »

World Messaging should only be used for important server notifications - 'game is coming down in 10 minutes for maintenance' type stuff.

If you want to let people know there's a leopard in the crown store, spawn a leopard outside every major bank with the crown store symbol floating over its head. In four days, somebody is bound to see at least one, it gets the point across without a single word, easy to program and place, and it contributes to the game aesthetic instead of taking away from it.

There's a woman in Mistral raving about a Glenumbra dog so it's not like traveling exotics are without precedent.

Integrating Crown Store 'vendors' that were integrated into the gameworld would still be annoying, but much less so than the system messages.

Cody

I read the launcher every day, I skim the headlines, and am constantly on the forums trolling people, reading threads, watching Ezareth use his "Sorc" and "damage shield" word detectors, and constantly complaining about the sad state of PvP. in other words, I am constantly kept up to date on things. trust me, ZOS, people are not missing anything.

We see this stuff at the launcher and in the forums. No need to advertise it in game.

and especially it being in multiple languages.... how would a Spanish speaker who does not speak English feel if some message in English appeared on their screen, breaking all the lag immersion of the game?(:D) they would be annoyed, and would likely not even pay the message in Spanish any mind.

Just an advertisement once or twice a week is enough... this stuff is already on the launcher; people already know. If they want to buy crown store items, they will buy them.

if it makes y'all feel better, im planning on buying a crap ton of crown store soul gems at some point:D

ItsGlaive

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

I just have to ask:

What is it about these messages that makes people so angry? Why is it this particular form of messaging that you find so hard to ignore? Or are we really just looking for reasons to complain about a completely innocuous practice?

It's intrusive. The equivalent of an in-game pop-up ad.

ElSlayer

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, thanks for your feedback. We want to make sure everyone is aware that the Senche-Leopard is available - and only for a short time - so nobody misses out on the opportunity. We only plan on messaging this once per day, and want to hit each language (EN, DE, and FR) as these are multilingual megaservers.

LOL they did it again but now in this thread!

nastuug

Flynch wrote: »

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

Flynch wrote: »

It's a message. Holy cow, guys - have you never played a game where the 'buy now' icon is constantly on the screen and immovable as in other games?

Why on earth would ZOS put their customer ahead of their profit margins when their customers will flip their spit over literally anything?

I feel sad that there are so many people out there who have no experience with gaming before the micro-transaction/monetization craze.

Flynch wrote: »

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

Flynch wrote: »

It's a message. Holy cow, guys - have you never played a game where the 'buy now' icon is constantly on the screen and immovable as in other games?

Why on earth would ZOS put their customer ahead of their profit margins when their customers will flip their spit over literally anything?

I feel sad that there are so many people out there who have no experience with gaming before the micro-transaction/monetization craze, and that now think this it is normal.

Alternatively - there are players like myself who are old enough, experienced enough and have played games since the year dot, who understand that the survivability of a game in the contemporary MMO era rely on their own adaptation to competitive market strain.

In summary - this is how it is guys - like it or lump it. The only variances are whether the company decides to shove this right down your throat, or reminds you that there is a cash-shop in the background behind all this pompous player entitlement.

Ahh yes, entitlement, that fashionable word people sling around to try to brand opposing viewpoints as unreasonable. I suppose holding ZOS to their word of not having an intrusive cash shop is entitled? Nobody is denying the reality (or maybe necessity) of the cash shop. The issue is how they're going about promoting it.

I suppose using the argument 'oh if only you understood how it was before B2P you unlearned child' argument is somehow less cliche.

Sorry, but I agree here. I tested the game out in beta and refused to be a part of it during that time. Now I see so much of this "Back in my day -- miles barefoot uphill in snow" crap. Beating a dead horse will not bring your precious sub-based system back, and you guys know it.

Moonshadow66

*sigh*.. the good old days:



.. half an hour later it ended in Mournhold:



(I played beta on the very lowest settings and on my old small screen, so I'm sorry for the quality^^)

sheggorathb16_ESO

Wow, I didnt realise people were this angry about adverts... So much for the multi-millions worth industry that nobody apparently wants.... And unlike tv were I have to sit through literally 15 minutes of the same adverts, often advertising the same channel and even the programme I was just watching, here its only a few seconds. Or you can even block it with an addon like I do with internet adverts. Heck you probably wasted more timing complaining about it and not being immersed than if you had just ignored it. By the way whoever was angry about utube adverts, get adblocker on chrome, I watch utube all night without any adverts. Advertising is just advertising, its sadly an accepted practise everyone has come to expect. I cant see this as being as intrusive as it could be... I've seen much much worse... And besides the main reason I'd imagine its happening is so no idiot can come and complain they didnt know about the deal and then cry about missing the leopard. Why you all have decided to 'punish' ESO by threatening to stop your subs is beyond me... it seems childish. Just because it flashed a message across your screen for a few minutes you want to give up the in game boost, the crowns, and access to upcoming DLC? Its throwing a tantrum and trying to force the parent to pay attention so that the brat gets its way, or like the old saying, cutting off your nose to spite the face. If you really want a say just calmly express your dislike maturely and move on. They do listen to their players, thats why you got the message in the first place, because they have to try and sell these things instead of living off a sub. Just do what I do with the insane amount of marketing I get exposed to and ignore it. It'll go away after this weekend anyway. I dont think its the start of Vegas style advertising... Thats just insanely paranoid. And thats coming from me.... Stop expecting the worse to happen, or you'll only see the bad and completely miss the good.

Flynch

nastuug wrote: »

Flynch wrote: »

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

Flynch wrote: »

It's a message. Holy cow, guys - have you never played a game where the 'buy now' icon is constantly on the screen and immovable as in other games?

Why on earth would ZOS put their customer ahead of their profit margins when their customers will flip their spit over literally anything?

I feel sad that there are so many people out there who have no experience with gaming before the micro-transaction/monetization craze.

Flynch wrote: »

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

Flynch wrote: »

It's a message. Holy cow, guys - have you never played a game where the 'buy now' icon is constantly on the screen and immovable as in other games?

Why on earth would ZOS put their customer ahead of their profit margins when their customers will flip their spit over literally anything?

I feel sad that there are so many people out there who have no experience with gaming before the micro-transaction/monetization craze, and that now think this it is normal.

Alternatively - there are players like myself who are old enough, experienced enough and have played games since the year dot, who understand that the survivability of a game in the contemporary MMO era rely on their own adaptation to competitive market strain.

In summary - this is how it is guys - like it or lump it. The only variances are whether the company decides to shove this right down your throat, or reminds you that there is a cash-shop in the background behind all this pompous player entitlement.

Ahh yes, entitlement, that fashionable word people sling around to try to brand opposing viewpoints as unreasonable. I suppose holding ZOS to their word of not having an intrusive cash shop is entitled? Nobody is denying the reality (or maybe necessity) of the cash shop. The issue is how they're going about promoting it.

I suppose using the argument 'oh if only you understood how it was before B2P you unlearned child' argument is somehow less cliche.

Sorry, but I agree here. I tested the game out in beta and refused to be a part of it during that time. Now I see so much of this "Back in my day -- miles barefoot uphill in snow" crap. Beating a dead horse will not bring your precious sub-based system back, and you guys know it.

Absolutely.

Bloodfang

Ah Entitlement..Seriously what's with all this Crying on the Forum every single day about every not important thing at all. Like some people have no better things to do in their life.

So what if they are Advertising this mount using System Message? This is Immersion Breaking? Don't even start to go that direction, it's only once a day, few seconds per day, and apart from that they'll obviously do it only when there are Limited Offers.

*Sigh, what a world I live in. For many of us this Mount costed 20€, how come there was no crying about the Price?
Zenimax has a Genius in their Marketing Team, I can see only this Mount bringing them at least 1mil Revenue.

Sylvyr

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

I just have to ask:

What is it about these messages that makes people so angry? Why is it this particular form of messaging that you find so hard to ignore? Or are we really just looking for reasons to complain about a completely innocuous practice?

Some might say it wrecks the immersion.
- How would you like it if you go to watch the new star wars movie coming out and in middle of a light sabre fight across the screen you see "POPCORN NOW HALF OFF COME N GET IT" in 5 different languages.

Some people don't like force fed advertising.
- Even if you "ignore" it as you say, just seeing it, or hearing it, causes our brain's neurons to fire and imprint the perceived message - kind of like when you hear a jingle and it sticks in your head. Some people don't want this garbage in their heads and are sick of getting it day in and day out.

Warning: Tin foil hat time
NEOrevarine, here's a little bit of the red pill for you, understand that companies market their products in order to survive and this is a -vital- function for their livelihood. Advertising and marketing has come a long way. These days it's not just about a catchy song in an ad, marketing involves science, math, psychology, sociology, statistics, and even biology. All designed to penetrate our shells and tell us what we need to spend money on. Some might call it a form of control, barraging us from all angles. Instead of being born and feeding machines electricity like in the matrix, contemporary analogy is that we, since the time we are conceived, we are seen as by companies as kind of like cows that can be milked over and over again in order to feed companies money they need to survive until the day we die and owe hospitals and funeral homes money even after we are dead. Not all companies are like this, there are some that are "socially responsible" here and there, but far from the norm.

I play this game as my form of taking the blue pill. Last thing I want to see in my matrix is a reminder of what the real world is about.

Anyways, that's just me, maybe others can offer some insight as to why this seemingly trivial text pop up is so distressing.

Tandor

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We want to make sure everyone is aware that the Senche-Leopard is available

Then put it in bold letters on the launcher, in the language of the launcher, and not in-game.

Sylvyr

Xendyn wrote: »

LordSkyKnight wrote: »

(Cackles) This is what you all wanted by dropping the subscription and going with a cash shop. Enjoy!

(Laughs while walking away)

Wut?
We wanted nothing of the kind. ZOS sprung that one on us like Ambush.
Know what you're talking about before you post please.

Matt Firor in one of the ESO live special presentation a couple months ago said that going to B2P and opening of a crown shop is what the community asked for and they are simply fulfilling what we asked for. We should be grateful at how well they listened to us.

Seriously.

Watch it here

zdkazz

Bouvin wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, thanks for your feedback. We want to make sure everyone is aware that the Senche-Leopard is available - and only for a short time - so nobody misses out on the opportunity. We only plan on messaging this once per day, and want to hit each language (EN, DE, and FR) as these are multilingual megaservers.

This was pretty clear when I opened the LAUNCHER.

No need to ruin game immersion with obnoxious advertisements for something we are already made aware of when opening the launcher.

kthxbye

immersion doesent exist in this game, all those mobs that chain, lifeless ai, pointless day night, books from the wrong era, lore breaking mounts ect ect...

Drazhar14

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, thanks for your feedback. We want to make sure everyone is aware that the Senche-Leopard is available - and only for a short time - so nobody misses out on the opportunity. We only plan on messaging this once per day, and want to hit each language (EN, DE, and FR) as these are multilingual megaservers.

Then put the information in the launcher ads or that blurb under the log in screen. Spamming advertising in game is unacceptable.

BBSooner

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

I just have to ask:

What is it about these messages that makes people so angry? Why is it this particular form of messaging that you find so hard to ignore? Or are we really just looking for reasons to complain about a completely innocuous practice?

The lack of regard when/where it displays. It appears top center. As distasteful as it is now, I would have been far more annoyed would I have been running through new content and the text covers up the "big bads" face during a monologue.

I can only imagine how annoyed I'd be if I was playing through the Molag Bal ending sequence for the first time and in the middle of the semi-cinematic sequence his face gets covered by bright yellow text telling me to buy a pet from the store. It definitely takes you out of the moment and returned to your desk chair.

I'd very likely have the same response if I was watching a movie in the theater and in bright yellow top center the theater urged people to go buy popcorn during the climax of the movie.

Nerio

I don't recall any complaints when there were system messages posted about bot banning. Everything about that was the same, the words were just different.

Danikat

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, thanks for your feedback. We want to make sure everyone is aware that the Senche-Leopard is available - and only for a short time - so nobody misses out on the opportunity. We only plan on messaging this once per day, and want to hit each language (EN, DE, and FR) as these are multilingual megaservers.

If this is the reason I would have thought an email would be a better approach.

I've missed both the in-game messages so far, even though I've been logging in at least once a day, because I didn't happen to be online at the time they were sent. Most people (even those who aren't logging in) will check their email at least once a day and it's pretty unlikely they'd miss an email, especially since they can read the subject right away and the rest of the info in their own time.

It also means more information can be included where necessary.

And on the other side those who don't want it can opt out, redirect it into a sub-folder, block it etc. as they wish and you'll have less complaints on the forum and in game.

Kilandros

Nerio wrote: »

I don't recall any complaints when there were system messages posted about bot banning. Everything about that was the same, the words were just different.

Just like "thank you" and "#### you" are the same, right? They're both messages, the words were just different.