Oh ZoS - You have let us down!

Genomic

Psychobunni wrote: »

Genomic wrote: »

"And it's important to state that our decision to go with subscriptions is not a referendum on online game revenue models. F2P, B2P, etc. are valid, proven business models - but subscription is the one that fits ESO the best, given our commitment to freedom of gameplay, quality and long-term content delivery. Plus, players will appreciate not having to worry about being "monetized" in the middle of playing the game, which is definitely a problem that is cropping up more and more in online gaming these days. The fact that the word "monetized" exists points to the heart of the issue for us: We don't want the player to worry about which parts of the game to pay for - with our system, they get it all."

Oh snap, like yellow "come buy our junk" ads across your screen while playing?

Yeah, I wonder if this was part of the "sacrifices and changes we weren't willing to make". Which they are now willing to make.

Gidorick

In response to all the quotes above:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ytCEuuW2_A

Psychobunni

Genomic wrote: »

Yeah, I wonder if this was part of the "sacrifices and changes we weren't willing to make". Which they are now willing to make.

Yeah, I have thought several times over the past few months with all the backtracking and borderline complete untruths how lucky I have been that I've been able to simply walk away when what was expected of me job wise went against what I believe is right and wrong and my own standards of honesty. I feel for them in so much as the outlook changed direction and different decisions had to be made....I just wish it was handled more directly and honestly.

Robotmafia

ZOS_JoBurba wrote: »

Hey everyone,

Just wanted to stop in and put some detail and context around the in-game announcements this weekend. Like Gina said - it's once a day on each server in 3 languages. (5 languages? We don't even speak 5 languages) Tomorrow is the last day of this and really the last day of the WBW.

In our experience, whenever we do anything that has a limited way for folks to get something cool in-game people get really upset if they miss their chance to get it. We are using several methods to make sure everyone knows, but people don't always read their emails, they pay zero attention to the patcher or login screen messages (click click click START GAME!) and we wanted to do our best to make sure people who want the leopard senche could get it.

Now, could we do this smarter? In-game email or something like that? We would love to, but currently we don't have that ability. We have heard your feedback and will be working on smarter messaging for future events but for this weekend, this is what we are going with. There aren't very many of these special events and we want to make sure people have a chance to participate. We felt it was the least disruptive being only once per day but most effective given the tools we have now.

As always, thanks for the feedback. Without you playing the game and giving feedback we wouldn't have come as far as we have in the last year. Just please, keep it constructive, keep it factual, and be understanding of the fact that it is a game full of varied people with varied interests and desires. The 3 second sever message that you might twitch at is the one message that let another player know he could get a sweet sweet senche-leopard. He's only jealous of your senche-tiger he can't get after all.

not that ingame mail with advertisements is better but how can you not send ingame mail? we got our other rewards through ingame mail...

david.kinnaneb14_ESO

direct and honest is not the style of zos. They don't even play their own game, which is so glaringly obvious by the amounts of bugs that make it to live servers that are so easily noticed. They've just been making it up as they go since day 1 and this crown store crap is really the culmination of the direction their rudderless ship is headed.

I really do wish Bethesda had been the developer and publisher behind ESO. We deserve better than this, by a lot. We want a quality game experience, not a wannabe walmart. If they would focus on developing real content, ESO would be a thousand times better. But I knew this was going to happen the moment they announced f2p or b2p or whatever you wanna call it. They're cheeping out, hoping that we can be pacified by the introduction of meaningless items in the crown store. We're not playing pokemon here, we don't care about some stupid overpriced cat mount that does absolutely nothing for your character. We do care that there has been no content in months. We do care that your game is absolutely chalked full of bugs since the launch of 1.6.

So I ask you, ZOS, what's more important to you? Quick cash from your crown store, or giving us a quality game?

tallenn

I have to say that even as an unapologetic free market capitalist, this kind of pissed me off.

If you want to make sure everyone sees it, make the announcement as they are logging in, not at a random time during the day. I don't need to be distracted by a huge yellow message across my screen right in the middle of a boss fight (yes, that happened).

tallenn

And really? You can't send an in-game email to everyone? Really? I seem to remember getting the same emails for my pre-order bonuses that everyone else who pre-ordered got.

Also, and I'm really trying to find a way to say this without being rude, but really? You really don't know how to write software to send an email to everyone in your game? If that's true, well, I can't finish that statement without being rude.

Kahrgan

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, thanks for your feedback. We want to make sure everyone is aware that the Senche-Leopard is available - and only for a short time - so nobody misses out on the opportunity. We only plan on messaging this once per day, and want to hit each language (EN, DE, and FR) as these are multilingual megaservers.

How about you just make it flash when someone logs in. Much less invasive.

SantieClaws

I think someone somewhere really needs to reign in the marketing dept. I fear what has happened is what I have seen happen elsewhere. The marketing dept starts to command everything in the company in the name of "the brand" etc and feel they have a license to interfere in the work of everyone else.

The marketing dept work for ZoS. The rest of ZoS does not work for the marketing dept. Someone at the top needs to take control here. Lines needs to be drawn. The marketing dept need to be told that they are not running the whole game and to step back because it does seem that their pushy pushy approach is backfiring spectacularly and repeatedly.

HeroOfNone

The message was unable welcomed and I only expect messages like that to let us know that the server might be going down for maintenance. This invasive marketing does not appeal to me and I don't see myself buying anything you vendor this way. It wasn't appealing in EQ or GW2

Speaking of marketing though, you could stand to improve your internal and external marketing. Internally there needs to be more notice times on your emails, improve your launcher advertisements, and give more hype in email when new items are coming. the last few emails I've gotten from email@mailer.elderscrollsonline.com was my loyalty rewards and that console beta was coming. the small notice box about clothing, motifs, and the leopard was a quick flash in the launcher. Rather than scrambling at the last second to let us know about the limited time offer on the leopard, hype it up where it makes sense a week or two ahead. Give community managers creepy screenshots with "SOON" across the bottom of them as well.

Externally though is where things need to be focused though. ZOS really needs to improve its ad banners, and redo its comercials. I'm an MMOaholic and I constantly see advertising for other MMOS on youtube, hulu, twitch, crunchyroll, and more, but I barely EVER see an ESO comercial. This is while I'm bombarded with Archeage, GW2, WoW, SWTOR, Perfect World MMOs, and others. The ones I do see are pretty lack luster compared to the overall look of the game. I don't think a single person comes into ESO because of an advertisement they see anymore; they are either getting it word of mouth, fan boys to TES, stopped by a Twitch stream, or because it's been a top seller on steam.

Please consider expanding this out, I'd prefer your revenue model to be based on getting new players to join and buy into the game rather than trying to bleed your current player base dry.

For other players, if you EVER came to play because of an ESO comercials please correct me, but I doubt most have.

seanvwolf

nastuug wrote: »

Agreed. I got this the other night. I think in five (5) different languages too. Cuz, ya know, I'm totally not in FL or anything...

Yeah they totally don't speak multiple languages in FL.**

**Except of course for English, Spanish and French Creole.

RealRobD

ZOS_JoBurba wrote: »

Now, could we do this smarter? In-game email or something like that? We would love to, but currently we don't have that ability.

This is a joke right?

FadedJeans

Sometimes I wonder if "being outraged" is what entertains some people.

#FirstWorldProblems

Sylvyr

ZOS_JoBurba wrote: »

Hey everyone,

Just wanted to stop in and put some detail and context around the in-game announcements this weekend. Like Gina said - it's once a day on each server in 3 languages. (5 languages? We don't even speak 5 languages) Tomorrow is the last day of this and really the last day of the WBW.

In our experience, whenever we do anything that has a limited way for folks to get something cool in-game people get really upset if they miss their chance to get it. We are using several methods to make sure everyone knows, but people don't always read their emails, they pay zero attention to the patcher or login screen messages (click click click START GAME!) and we wanted to do our best to make sure people who want the leopard senche could get it.

Now, could we do this smarter? In-game email or something like that? We would love to, but currently we don't have that ability. We have heard your feedback and will be working on smarter messaging for future events but for this weekend, this is what we are going with. There aren't very many of these special events and we want to make sure people have a chance to participate. We felt it was the least disruptive being only once per day but most effective given the tools we have now.

As always, thanks for the feedback. Without you playing the game and giving feedback we wouldn't have come as far as we have in the last year. Just please, keep it constructive, keep it factual, and be understanding of the fact that it is a game full of varied people with varied interests and desires. The 3 second sever message that you might twitch at is the one message that let another player know he could get a sweet sweet senche-leopard. He's only jealous of your senche-tiger he can't get after all.

You can send out in game mail for PvP campaign rewards, Weekly trial rewards, new player bonuses, but not an informational mail? Very hard to believe.

Constructive feedback: I like the way this is minimized with the 3 second message comment and hyping up the senche, again. Jealous? Not really, every time I see a leopard in game I don't think of how cool the leopard is, I think of this fiasco.

Bouvin

Genomic wrote: »

"And it's important to state that our decision to go with subscriptions is not a referendum on online game revenue models. F2P, B2P, etc. are valid, proven business models - but subscription is the one that fits ESO the best, given our commitment to freedom of gameplay, quality and long-term content delivery. Plus, players will appreciate not having to worry about being "monetized" in the middle of playing the game, which is definitely a problem that is cropping up more and more in online gaming these days. The fact that the word "monetized" exists points to the heart of the issue for us: We don't want the player to worry about which parts of the game to pay for - with our system, they get it all."

Apparently, someone at ZOS has changed their mind about this.

Because I'd call the Senche Leopard ADs "being monetized in the middle of playing the game".

Bouvin

lordrichter wrote: »

I just wanted everyone to be clear that he did not say he would shut down the game before going F2P.

Right, he just basically said it goes against everything they believe in.

He also said they won't try to monetize you while playing the game.

I guess what Matt Friror says and thinks doesn't really matter much to ZoS anymore.

Bouvin

Robotmafia wrote: »

not that ingame mail with advertisements is better but how can you not send ingame mail? we got our other rewards through ingame mail...

LOL. Good point.

It's like they are saying "We can't figure out how to send a mail to EVERYONE in the game", but "we did figure out how to send a mail to select people based on certain criteria".

I think he's flat out lying about not being able to send in-game mail.. because well they have already proven THEY CAN SEND IN GAME MAIL.

They know they handled this poorly and are just trying to back track with more lies.

Here's an idea ZoS. TRY BEING HONEST AND SAYING "WE MADE A MISTAKE WON'T HAPPEN AGAIN".

See if that goes over a little better with the player base....

Merlin13KAGL

You want to 'promote' Crown sales, fine.

Use $1 of that sub money to add one line of code to at least limit it to the language chosen at startup.

I didn't go to sleep and wake on another continent.

That would, at least, make it 1/5th as annnoying.

Bouvin

tallenn wrote: »

And really? You can't send an in-game email to everyone? Really? I seem to remember getting the same emails for my pre-order bonuses that everyone else who pre-ordered got.

Also, and I'm really trying to find a way to say this without being rude, but really? You really don't know how to write software to send an email to everyone in your game? If that's true, well, I can't finish that statement without being rude.

Actually this might explain the rampant bugs that have been around since day 1 and not fixed.. as well as the lag that keeps getting worse with each patch.

gard

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, thanks for your feedback. We want to make sure everyone is aware that the Senche-Leopard is available - and only for a short time - so nobody misses out on the opportunity. We only plan on messaging this once per day, and want to hit each language (EN, DE, and FR) as these are multilingual megaservers.

There's a "news" section on the game launcher. And in-game mail for that matter.

I'm not raging at this like some people are, but it is an irritation. If I'm fighting something I won't know what the ad said, anyway.

Is this ESO or Runescape?

pugyourself

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

You want to 'promote' Crown sales, fine.

Use $1 of that sub money to add one line of code to at least limit it to the language chosen at startup.

I didn't go to sleep and wake on another continent.

That would, at least, make it 1/5th as annnoying.

Not to mention, if they wanted to force the launcher as a prerequisite for opening the exe it would take about 5 minutes to code. The response from ZOS in this thread really stretches credulity.

septvestige

M'aiq sais there is only x hours left to buy the exclusive mount...

lol

Paulhewhewria

All I know is when I first saw this ad this went through my head "Since everyone was ,so mad about the last one they went ahead and did it WOW ZOS you done *** up".Honestly though if I hadn't paid a subscription and yes I do understand ZOS is in this to make money and they want to highlight there limited time stuff,but an ad on the launcher should be enough,also I would be ok with maybe In-Game mail.

Sylvyr

TD5160_ESO wrote: »

Keep doing what you do best ZOS. I'll still be playing, even if the vocal minority doesn't. (Though we all know that threats to leave the game are pretty empty. Most will keep playing, despite what they say here.)

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Trolling & Baiting]

How do you know it's the minority? How do you know most will keep playing?

Speaking only for myself, I have cancelled sub after subbing from the beginning. It's not that I don't want this game to succeed but it seems like Zo$ is more and more turning this game into farmville and not doing it in a thoughtful and classy way and the only way to vote (since they don't seem to pay attention to an 80% no in game advert poll) is to cast my vote by giving them or in this case not giving them money.

I will continue to play primarily because of in-game friends but there are several new games right on the horizon, some of which are crowd sourced and not corp financed and at some point likely consider switching to a different game & company. Already thinking plan B when for a long time I wasn't.

Not a threat, just fact. I'm perturbed by the brazen way ZoS is doing business. I understand they need to make money. But there is classy, thought out, subtle... and then there is ZoS.

SnAjP

amazing times, we got this middle of the sceren spam while we couldnt cast or use any skills in the dungeon couse of delay/lag
some nonpublishable words were cast

Muletide

Oh no not a system notification that pops up for 3 seconds. Everything's ruined! How dare they inform the players of a limited time event!...

"There is a difference between really being concerned about service delivery and incompetence and just complaining for the sake of it."

Bouvin

Well, I've finally had enough.

I've been a member since November 2013, and I'm done. Not paying a sub any more. Not to a company that will flat out lie to it's player base, and make tons of empty promises that it never delivers on.

• Telling us they can't send in-game mail for promos? Flat out lie as they send in-game mail for other things.
• Promising us new content every few months? Lie. Craglorn was supposed to be in-game at release and that's the last content we saw. Dark Brotherhood and Theives guild were promised by 1.3. Justice system was promised with PvP. Imperial City and Osirim were shown at Quake Con last year and promised in 2014, but still not released. All that content they promised was lies.
• Matt Friror said before launch that they were going with a sub model because they didn't believe trying to monetize people while playing the game aligned with ESO's goals. Well, just a year later we have blatant abuses of the system message system shoving Leopards down our throats.
• The game was marketed as having mass PvP battles with 100's of players on screen. Yet two raid groups bring the server to it's knees and desync damage. PvP lag has only gotten worse since 1.4, and they seem to have no intention of fixing the core issue, or don't have the capability...which shouldn't be surprising at this point.

All of that on top of the fact that I DON'T HAVE TO PAY A SUB TO PLAY. So if I'm unhappy with the state of the game.. why on Earth would I keep paying. For a 10% XP Bonus? LOL.

Sylvyr

Bouvin wrote: »

xMovingTarget wrote: »

Still wondering about who wanted it. Ppl I know wanted it to stay sub only. Like myself too.

Zo$ forced b2p on us. Not because ppl wanted it.

I actually remember threads of people freaking out when they heard the game time cards were removed from Australian retailers..and they speculated that meant F2P was coming. And also the 6-month sub was removed because of F2P.

Of course, ZoS then outright lied and said that wasn't the case. And of course, fan boys jumped in to defend them.

Just like the fanbois jumped in to defend them saying B2P wouldn't devolve this game into the typical F2P trash.

And look where we are, Giant yellow letters flashing across the screen saying "Buy the latest limited time offer pet from the cash shop".

The fanbois can keep defending all they want, but ZoS isn't even treading lightly on the path to turning a game that had so much potential into F2P trash.

/rant

IKR, ZoS keep trying to do jedi mind tricks, nothing to see here...

Even official responses to this thread are about as solid as vapor and including even more sweet sweet selling from sweet sweet zos on a forum thread about how untactful it's been. It's pretty lacking in tact to do that. It's like they are just nodding their heads yeah yeah uh huh yeah oh buy more!

Distasteful.

gurluasb16_ESO

I don't mind this.
I have a bigger problem with the motifs being added to the crown store.

Sylvyr

Raash wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

Raash wrote: »

Morduil wrote: »

Raash wrote: »

Morduil wrote: »

Jakx wrote: »

Wooooooow. A couple second notification comes up in a game that is FREE TO PLAY. Even if it is an attempt to sell their product. Wouldnt you want them to make some money so you can continue to play this game? Thats how a cash shop works. You dont have to purchase it, I didnt. Dont plan on purchasing anything actually but at least I have the common sense to realize they have to sell something.

Honestly, people will find ANYTHING to complain about. Amazed. Keep on, keepin' on internet heroes. You live amazing lives.

I am a subscriber. ZOS have given me - indeed encouraged me to take up - this option. The game is not free-to-play for me (as it happens it isn't free-to-play for anyone, it is buy-to-play for some and subcription based for others). I am seeing the message. Are you saying I and all players like me should unsubscribe?

You still choose to pay sub, if you not happy with what you get perhaps you should play without a sub for a while. Just sayin.

Err.., thank you for suggesting the option I had already flagged in the last sentence, I guess...

I had intended that implicit in my response would be the idea that there was a contradiction in ZOS's approach that I hoped could be reconciled without my dropping my sub.

Apologies if that was not more readily comprehensible.

Ah yeah it was a question towards ZoS and not towards the guy you quoted. Didnt get that.

Anyway ESO are free to play now if you choose it to be so I just dont get why people are crying so much.
If I choose to continue paying monthly for a newspaper that cost x amount once then free forever people would think I was odd.
If im raging at adds in the paper and think since I actually, out of free will, pay xtra for the free paper I deserve special treatment people would call me nuts.

Do the ads in the newspaper cover the story you are reading?

If you think ESO ingame ads "cover" the gameplay I would guess you need a new pair of glasses? You not serious are you?
Ads in newspapers are made to draw your attention - so is ingame ads.

If you think after a day of your reply being in one of the hottest threads and having absolutely no agrees makes your stance strong...

Your analogy was weak.

Since you probably missed it ealier in this thread. How would you like it if you were watching a star wars movie in the theatre and during a light sabre fight you see in bold yellow letters "Popcorn available now. Get it while it's hot and available!" flashed several time in multiple languages?

How would you like to be in a ride at disney land and halfway through they blare "This ride has been brought to you by Sam's Hardware, it's hammertime!" and play some MC hammer. (well you might like that...)