Harrassment Already A Larger Problem

istateres

I believe a visual ignore is both needed and possible. There are already many situations in the game where what I see is different from what the player is actually doing (one simple example is collecting a writ). Players should have the ability to control this to ignore the visual actions of other players. This works for BOTH RP and other game situations (banking, etc.) where visual griefers exist.

ZOS - any comments?

newtinmpls

I'm suspecting that the "invisiblizing annoying players" might be seen as a type of phasing ... and thus really hard (from a game coding standpoint) to implement.

Anyone knowledgeable in programming who can speak to this?

istateres

newtinmpls wrote: »

I'm suspecting that the "invisiblizing annoying players" might be seen as a type of phasing ... and thus really hard (from a game coding standpoint) to implement.

Anyone knowledgeable in programming who can speak to this?

Do an Alchemy writ and get a special map or whatever they are called. Go there and wait for someone else (or bring a friend). When you harvest the special nodes, you will see yourself bending down and harvesting each flower. Everyone else watching will see you standing around. They do not see the flowers, they do not see you harvesting. Your actions are hidden from all other players.

Now tell me, couldn't that functionality be used to achieve what we want with a few tweeks?

MornaBaine

istateres wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

I'm suspecting that the "invisiblizing annoying players" might be seen as a type of phasing ... and thus really hard (from a game coding standpoint) to implement.

Anyone knowledgeable in programming who can speak to this?

Do an Alchemy writ and get a special map or whatever they are called. Go there and wait for someone else (or bring a friend). When you harvest the special nodes, you will see yourself bending down and harvesting each flower. Everyone else watching will see you standing around. They do not see the flowers, they do not see you harvesting. Your actions are hidden from all other players.

Now tell me, couldn't that functionality be used to achieve what we want with a few tweeks?

Or go into a quest area with someone wherein you have done the quest and they have not...*poof* you disappear to each other. If you are grouped you only know they are there because you can still see the arrow or crown where they are. So yes, this functionality already exists in the game. They just need to take it a step further and give us, the players, the ability to CHOOSE not to see someone.

newtinmpls

istateres wrote: »

Do an Alchemy writ and get a special map or whatever they are called. Go there and wait for someone else (or bring a friend). When you harvest the special nodes, you will see yourself bending down and harvesting each flower. Everyone else watching will see you standing around. They do not see the flowers, they do not see you harvesting. Your actions are hidden from all other players.

Now tell me, couldn't that functionality be used to achieve what we want with a few tweeks?

Oooohhh I like this! It could be a similar command to ignore in chat. Maybe call it /nodance

MornaBaine

newtinmpls wrote: »

istateres wrote: »

Do an Alchemy writ and get a special map or whatever they are called. Go there and wait for someone else (or bring a friend). When you harvest the special nodes, you will see yourself bending down and harvesting each flower. Everyone else watching will see you standing around. They do not see the flowers, they do not see you harvesting. Your actions are hidden from all other players.

Now tell me, couldn't that functionality be used to achieve what we want with a few tweeks?

Oooohhh I like this! It could be a similar command to ignore in chat. Maybe call it /nodance

Or even just /ignore2. The regular /ignore would still just make their chat disappear whereas /ignore2 would make their character disappear.

pjwb16_ESO

DDuke wrote: »

They should find some way to toggle on PvP outside Cyrodiil, so you can kill the offender.

E.g. enough reports of a person -> you can attack him/her.

This should of course give no AP, and ways to avoid abuse of this system (its use for dueling or harassing people for instance) should be found first.

lol if this would be introduced, id harrass all day long xDDD

MornaBaine

pjwb16_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

They should find some way to toggle on PvP outside Cyrodiil, so you can kill the offender.

E.g. enough reports of a person -> you can attack him/her.

This should of course give no AP, and ways to avoid abuse of this system (its use for dueling or harassing people for instance) should be found first.

lol if this would be introduced, id harrass all day long xDDD

Thank you for making my point for me.

newtinmpls

DDuke wrote: »

They should find some way to toggle on PvP outside Cyrodiil, so you can kill the offender.

E.g. enough reports of a person -> you can attack him/her.

Actually I would like to see something similar as an extension of the justice system. I.e. /throwgauntlet and if the target accepted it they would be 'attackable' to each other and could duel without endangering (or involving) anyone else.

skoomaking916

MornaBaine wrote: »

I don't much care if you think roleplaying is stupid or you just don't get it. There is a sizable group of roleplayers in ESO and ZOS has repeatedly stated that they support this. I've seen GMs in the past show up to remove players who were trolling an RP event. And when I myself am getting trolled for roleplaying I will ask people once, politely, to stop. And sometimes what they are doing IS pretty funny and we all get a laugh out of it and then they move on and everything is fine. So it's not that I'm all that thin skinned. Yet despite warnings that player harassment of other players WOULD get worse with the switch to B2P ZOS seems not to have felt that greater GM presence is warranted. Nor have they taken any other steps to reduce harassment.

Last night members of my guild held an in-character funeral for another player character. Were we truly sad or upset? Not at all. It was just part of a story arc that has been going on in our guild for some time. So no, I'm not about to cry about some mean disrespectful person daring to dishonor our pixel dead. LOL The context of the roleplay isn't all that import, what is, is that we instantly had a guy dancing in his perma-underwear in our faces throughout the event and bragging about how he "loves to do this to roleplayers" who are, of course, "ridiculous" and "stupid." So while he was providing me with ample fodder I was reporting him with screenshots. But unlike past events, and believe me, this went on for quite awhile, no GM showed up to deal with the problem. Indeed at one point we thought he had finally gotten bored and gone away but nope, he had just gone to get some friends to join his little party. Further shenanigans ensured and were also reported with screenshots. FINALLY they did get bored and wander off. Probably because the entire event was held in group chat rather than spatial /emote or /say exactly so as to give less food to the trolls.

About an hour later a GM did contact me, apologized for not being able to do anything about the incident while it was happening, and was very professional and polite. I have absolutely NO beef with this GM. He or she was great. I also believed them when they said they'd go over the logs. And while they, of course, cannot tell me what, if any, action they will take against that player I am nevertheless fairly certain he'll receive some form of censure. Sadly, none of that changes the fact that this jerk was allowed to pretty much ruin what would otherwise have been a cool event.

THIS is why we need more GMs, player and guild housing, and empty instances of places you can take groups into. Any ONE of those things would come close to eliminating the problem of the continual player harassment that goes on in this game and that is made possible by the fact that any bratty twelve year old can now play this game by just badgering mom and dad once rather than on a monthly basis. We told you this would happen ZOS. I'd kind of like to know what your plans are for dealing with it.

Addendum: I've also been informed that there ARE games where placing a character on ignore will not only remove their chat, it will remove the character themselves from your view and it will be, to you, as if they no longer exist. This would be AMAZING. Please ZOS, I am begging you, figure out how to do this and implement it ASAP.

Further Addendum: ... There is nothing "fictional" about players harassing and cyber-bullying other players. Nor are the players engaging in that kind of disruptive and oftentimes outright hateful behavior in any way engaging in roleplaying. Further, while roleplayers are OFTEN victims of such player harassment, the fact remains that these "bad actors" do not "just" confine themselves to hunting down RP events to grief but often engage in harassment of other players in many other contexts as well. This post is NOT about roleplaying. It IS about player harassment and the request for ZOS to provide ALL players with the tools to deal with this on their own rather than relying on GMs who are being rendered ineffectual due to being stretched too thin.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Discussing Moderation Actions]

They havent done anything about VET ranks harassing people trying to get vamp and werewolf bites, that is also messing up game play, so i dont think they will do anything anytime soon.

Cemaris

I'm not a big rper myself but I am all for guild housing. Personally, I would love a manor or estate type area outside a city of your choice for your guild to rp or just hang out in before going off to do quests. It would be nice to have a garden and a small funeral area/ cemetery so that RPing guilds can do their rping in. Or even an individual housing that we can decorate and only allow friends to enter. I want a place that I can decorate and display my trophies and have a journal with my achievements logged (bookshelf for found lore books please!). I know I ask for a lot but I bought this game because of the potential I see to enjoy it with my friends. An area that we can privately use would be a wonderful addition not just for those that roleplay but for those that just want a place to hang out with their ingame friends where they cant be interrupted by outsiders.

Squishs

The Elder Scrolls series is so rich in lore and story, it genuinely boggles the mind to think you wouldn't have a squidge of respect towards roleplayers who wanna experience all that written content in their own way.

But, here's hoping Zenimax acknowledge that and give roleplayers a little more bang to their buck when it comes to dealing with idiots like the OP mentioned.

At the end of the day, it's harassment.

Winterpsy

I am myself a big fan of roleplay. Spent years in the video gaming world searching good communities and spending time with them.

TBH, I cannot see ESO to become any way satisfying to my roleplaying needs. The sillyness going on around the in game world is just too much. Immersion is nonexistant, maybe in group dungeons. The whole game mechanics are poorly designed to support roleplay on consoles for instance. Gamertags floating around, nekkid barbarians dancing drunk, weapons flinging around without doing a scratch, deadra and skeletons following nigh everyone around.

Which is fine. I just booked this game to what it is really. MMO without the RPG part.
Much akin to Diablo.

Too bad though, there's that extra layer of roleplay possibilities unexploited. Lot of lore, lot of areas, other mechanics supporting roleplay nicely.

Different servers would solve the problem. Or some tagging system, how you similarly tag yourself in group dungeons what kind of roles your char can fill.
You tag your playstyle: roleplay, pvp, action, exploration, etc and you are pulled into an instance of the similarly tagged people. So those who seek roleplay are bunched together but invibile for everyone else. There wont be naked barbarians gallopping through your screen, because they will be invisibile for you.

Dunno, just brainstorming.

pjwb16_ESO

I'd flag myself as Rper and troll you hehe

istateres

pjwb16_ESO wrote: »

I'd flag myself as Rper and troll you hehe

Exactly, an RP server will solve nothing. Plus, this isn't JUST an RP problem (thinking bank spamming effects, too many pets, trolls in general, etc.). That's why we need a visual ignore, just like we have a chat ignore.

and pjwb16_ESO can be first on my list

MornaBaine

pjwb16_ESO wrote: »

I'd flag myself as Rper and troll you hehe

Thank you for helping us illustrate why we need a visual ignore function so badly. How about it ZOS?

GioPrym

That's absurd. I've never participated in a RP event, but I'm certainly not opposed to them.

The part I can't understand is how anyone, in a game primarily designed for ROLE PLAYING, would troll other players and harass them.

For what it may be worth, try thinking of it this way: You're putting yourselves out there, role playing and having fun. As a fellow nerd, I respect when anyone enjoys the occasional geek out. Also, it shows a heartfelt courage to do that.
Trolls are the opposite of that. They hide behind ambiguous usernames, and use the internet to belittle other people.

It's little consolation, but stay strong my friends. Play well.

newtinmpls

Different servers would not solve the problem.

Enforcement of crackdown on inappropriate behavior with the same enthusiasm as trolling for money/trades in the forums would.

Rioghnan

Had this person not admitted to enjoying trolling RPers, I'd have just assumed he was RPing himself, as an annoying punkass. I RP in game and on here and my character is not a terribly serious guy. I've teabagged a few randos I've found lying prone in the middle of town. I did it coz that's what Rioghnan would do. I also walk up to strangers and stare, or follow them for a bit, and I like standing in dark corners holding my staff and waiting for the inevitable double-takes and occasional reactive sword-draws when people see me. I don't incessantly harass anyone (that would get old fast) but certainly I wouldn't say that just because someone is winding you up, it means they're trolling your RP and trying to ruin it. I think that even the world of role playing has room for a few goofballs.

MornaBaine

Rioghnan wrote: »

Had this person not admitted to enjoying trolling RPers, I'd have just assumed he was RPing himself, as an annoying punkass. I RP in game and on here and my character is not a terribly serious guy. I've teabagged a few randos I've found lying prone in the middle of town. I did it coz that's what Rioghnan would do. I also walk up to strangers and stare, or follow them for a bit, and I like standing in dark corners holding my staff and waiting for the inevitable double-takes and occasional reactive sword-draws when people see me. I don't incessantly harass anyone (that would get old fast) but certainly I wouldn't say that just because someone is winding you up, it means they're trolling your RP and trying to ruin it. I think that even the world of role playing has room for a few goofballs.

Goofballs, yes. But what you describe is far and away from what most of us are talking abut here. And the thing that makes me cranky is that it's solveable. I often have fun with people goofing during RP...if I'm in a tavern and someone jumps up on our table to dance I'll often demand they strip and emote throwing coins. LOL When it's lighthearted and in good fun I'm more than happy to roll with it. I don't have a stick up my arse by any means and I doubt anyone who knows me would accuse me of being too serious. LOL It's the prolonged interference with the obvious intent to wreck things for people and the spiteful and outright nasty commentary that wear even me down after awhile.

Rioghnan

Yea I can see what you are saying. Too bad there's no way you could just whip round and kill them right quick. That would discourage them I bet.
*Troll dancing in his unders*
*Casual arrow to the face*
And go about your business. ..

MornaBaine

Rioghnan wrote: »

Yea I can see what you are saying. Too bad there's no way you could just whip round and kill them right quick. That would discourage them I bet.
*Troll dancing in his unders*
*Casual arrow to the face*
And go about your business. ..

You have no idea how much I miss open world PvP for this very reason. LOL In AOC many were the times griefers showed up to RP events....only to be met by the army guarding said event. Epic merriment would then ensue. I was also in the habit of paying assassin guilds to take care of griefers....and then whispering them, "Your death brought to you by a roleplayer." I enjoyed those screenshots immensely and they were worth every gold spent.

Rev Rielle

GioPrym wrote: »

That's absurd. I've never participated in a RP event, but I'm certainly not opposed to them.

The part I can't understand is how anyone, in a game primarily designed for ROLE PLAYING, would troll other players and harass them.

For what it may be worth, try thinking of it this way: You're putting yourselves out there, role playing and having fun. As a fellow nerd, I respect when anyone enjoys the occasional geek out. Also, it shows a heartfelt courage to do that.
Trolls are the opposite of that. They hide behind ambiguous usernames, and use the internet to belittle other people.

It's little consolation, but stay strong my friends. Play well.

Yes, this is basically it.

They're insecure in themselves and as such don't understand RP and why others enjoy it; so they try and put them down. Or they've tried it and don't enjoy it and so try and ruin it for everyone else too: 'I'm not going to have fun with RP so why should you'. Or they see it is something different, and if you're different you're not fitting in; as a result they try to belittle it and put the people down/annoy them. Or they're unhappy and not enjoying themselves for whatever reason, and RPers are an easy target to share that pain: 'I'm unhappy so I'm going to make you unhappy too.'.

It is sad and unfortunate, but regardless of the exact reason it almost always seems to stem from the basic same player-type: They're young people (in mind, not necessarily age) that are struggling with their own identity/self-worth/happiness. Hopefully they will grow out of it with time. The best we can really do is completely ignore them.

MornaBaine

Rev Rielle wrote: »

GioPrym wrote: »

That's absurd. I've never participated in a RP event, but I'm certainly not opposed to them.

The part I can't understand is how anyone, in a game primarily designed for ROLE PLAYING, would troll other players and harass them.

For what it may be worth, try thinking of it this way: You're putting yourselves out there, role playing and having fun. As a fellow nerd, I respect when anyone enjoys the occasional geek out. Also, it shows a heartfelt courage to do that.
Trolls are the opposite of that. They hide behind ambiguous usernames, and use the internet to belittle other people.

It's little consolation, but stay strong my friends. Play well.

Yes, this is basically it.

They're insecure in themselves and as such don't understand RP and why others enjoy it; so they try and put them down. Or they've tried it and don't enjoy it and so try and ruin it for everyone else too: 'I'm not going to have fun with RP so why should you'. Or they see it is something different, and if you're different you're not fitting in; as a result they try to belittle it and put the people down/annoy them. Or they're unhappy and not enjoying themselves for whatever reason, and RPers are an easy target to share that pain: 'I'm unhappy so I'm going to make you unhappy too.'.

It is sad and unfortunate, but regardless of the exact reason it almost always seems to stem from the basic same player-type: They're young people (in mind, not necessarily age) that are struggling with their own identity/self-worth/happiness. Hopefully they will grow out of it with time. The best we can really do is completely ignore them.

Which we can't do until ZoS gives us the simple capability to do so.

Rev Rielle

MornaBaine wrote: »

Rev Rielle wrote: »

GioPrym wrote: »

That's absurd. I've never participated in a RP event, but I'm certainly not opposed to them.

The part I can't understand is how anyone, in a game primarily designed for ROLE PLAYING, would troll other players and harass them.

For what it may be worth, try thinking of it this way: You're putting yourselves out there, role playing and having fun. As a fellow nerd, I respect when anyone enjoys the occasional geek out. Also, it shows a heartfelt courage to do that.
Trolls are the opposite of that. They hide behind ambiguous usernames, and use the internet to belittle other people.

It's little consolation, but stay strong my friends. Play well.

Yes, this is basically it.

They're insecure in themselves and as such don't understand RP and why others enjoy it; so they try and put them down. Or they've tried it and don't enjoy it and so try and ruin it for everyone else too: 'I'm not going to have fun with RP so why should you'. Or they see it is something different, and if you're different you're not fitting in; as a result they try to belittle it and put the people down/annoy them. Or they're unhappy and not enjoying themselves for whatever reason, and RPers are an easy target to share that pain: 'I'm unhappy so I'm going to make you unhappy too.'.

It is sad and unfortunate, but regardless of the exact reason it almost always seems to stem from the basic same player-type: They're young people (in mind, not necessarily age) that are struggling with their own identity/self-worth/happiness. Hopefully they will grow out of it with time. The best we can really do is completely ignore them.

Which we can't do until ZoS gives us the simple capability to do so.

We can put them on ignore, and then not worry about them otherwise. Sure we still see their character/s, but in almost every situation I've come across, the griefers get bored within minutes if you pay no attention to them whatsoever. I don't think we can expect anything more than that.

Also something I've tried from time to time and had a little success with is actually involving them in the RP situation or whatever you're doing. Of course it doesn't always work, and if they don't want to play a part and still act like like juveniles that's the time for the ignoring. But I've had some surprising success in the past with this.

MornaBaine

Rev Rielle wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Rev Rielle wrote: »

GioPrym wrote: »

That's absurd. I've never participated in a RP event, but I'm certainly not opposed to them.

The part I can't understand is how anyone, in a game primarily designed for ROLE PLAYING, would troll other players and harass them.

For what it may be worth, try thinking of it this way: You're putting yourselves out there, role playing and having fun. As a fellow nerd, I respect when anyone enjoys the occasional geek out. Also, it shows a heartfelt courage to do that.
Trolls are the opposite of that. They hide behind ambiguous usernames, and use the internet to belittle other people.

It's little consolation, but stay strong my friends. Play well.

Yes, this is basically it.

They're insecure in themselves and as such don't understand RP and why others enjoy it; so they try and put them down. Or they've tried it and don't enjoy it and so try and ruin it for everyone else too: 'I'm not going to have fun with RP so why should you'. Or they see it is something different, and if you're different you're not fitting in; as a result they try to belittle it and put the people down/annoy them. Or they're unhappy and not enjoying themselves for whatever reason, and RPers are an easy target to share that pain: 'I'm unhappy so I'm going to make you unhappy too.'.

It is sad and unfortunate, but regardless of the exact reason it almost always seems to stem from the basic same player-type: They're young people (in mind, not necessarily age) that are struggling with their own identity/self-worth/happiness. Hopefully they will grow out of it with time. The best we can really do is completely ignore them.

Which we can't do until ZoS gives us the simple capability to do so.

We can put them on ignore, and then not worry about them otherwise. Sure we still see their character/s, but in almost every situation I've come across, the griefers get bored within minutes if you pay no attention to them whatsoever. I don't think we can expect anything more than that.

Also something I've tried from time to time and had a little success with is actually involving them in the RP situation or whatever you're doing. Of course it doesn't always work, and if they don't want to play a part and still act like like juveniles that's the time for the ignoring. But I've had some surprising success in the past with this.

Oh I have as well and employ both those techniques regularly. I've also had decent success with sending a whisper saying, "Hi there! Hey I know you are having fun and that was pretty funny but we'd appreciate it if we can get back to what we were doing now, thanks!"

But I've ALSO run into some realllly dedicated arsehats who were literally willing to troll for well over an hour. And the point is we shouldn't HAVE to wheedle, cajole, beg or otherwise placate people. We should be able to make them simply disappear.

Rev Rielle

I don't know, I can understand that making other players disappear can seem desirable in some circumstances, and Tu'whucca knows I've certainly wished for that option a couple of times. But looking at it holistically I do think it might create a whole host of other problems too. For example; what happens when you come up against that account in the alliance war in future, they will be invisible to you - but you not to them.

I think making another account and its characters invisible permanently is probably not the way to go. Maybe there could be a temporary invisibility option, where that account and characters therein become invisible for 24 hours, or until you next log off, or something similar.

MornaBaine

Rev Rielle wrote: »

I don't know, I can understand that making other players disappear can seem desirable in some circumstances, and Tu'whucca knows I've certainly wished for that option a couple of times. But looking at it holistically I do think it might create a whole host of other problems too. For example; what happens when you come up against that account in the alliance war in future, they will be invisible to you - but you not to them.

I think making another account and its characters invisible permanently is probably not the way to go. Maybe there could be a temporary invisibility option, where that account and characters therein become invisible for 24 hours, or until you next log off, or something similar.

It's already been discussed that this option would probably have to be disabled in Cyrodiil. However it wouldn't really matter there as people are generally too busy fighting to spend time trolling.

Rev Rielle

I am still not so sure. The alliance problem was just an example, there are a lot of other potential issues that could arise from it also. I think it would create more problems than it will solve. And it is probably for that reason that it has never been implemented in any MMO (to knowledge) to date.

There might be some in-game mechanism that could be implemented to help with harassment beyond what we already have, but I'm not sure what that is.

Deyirn

I don't know if it's stupid or not, but I sure won't be able to get myself into acting that anyone but myself. What I do know is that people should be able to do whatever they want and have fun, as long as they aren't harming others around them. So go for roleplaying and have fun.