Will you please complete the VR level removal / conversion to champion system by May (part 1)

Razzak

It is even possible they will not remove them. If, by any chance, they get accepted better by the console crowd, they will surely stay. And since ZOS still sees VR levels as something added to the game, it could also be a part of their marketing to that crowd.

Alphashado

Razzak wrote: »

It is even possible they will not remove them. If, by any chance, they get accepted better by the console crowd, they will surely stay. And since ZOS still sees VR levels as something added to the game, it could also be a part of their marketing to that crowd.

I will go out on a limb and suggest that vet ranks will be even more unpopular with console players than PC players.

Console players tend to be more casual. They tend to play for less consecutive hours than your typicall MMO junkie. With exception of course.

So vet ranks are going to seem like even more of an insurmountable obstacle for them.

Emma_Overload

Artemiisia wrote: »

its not going to happen, why:

1. they havent spoken about the last stage in months
2. the earning of champion points start first at vr1
3. with so many gear between vr1 - vr14 in the game it would be a pain to change
4. the vr14 levels are released in the consuls versions
5. that means 3 places to remove it and 3 times the workload

Give it up

It wouldn't be hard at all.... they could just convert everything VR1-14 down to VR1 specs. Yes, I have tons of expensive and rare VR14 gear that would be nerfed overnight, but so what? Everyone else's gear would be nerfed, too!

Frankly, I don't give a rat's *ss about the devs' "workload". They're getting PAID! Unfortunately, none of the rest of us are getting compensated for the LONG, BORING Cadwell grind we thought our alts were going to escape.

Darkonflare15

Alphashado wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

It is even possible they will not remove them. If, by any chance, they get accepted better by the console crowd, they will surely stay. And since ZOS still sees VR levels as something added to the game, it could also be a part of their marketing to that crowd.

I will go out on a limb and suggest that vet ranks will be even more unpopular with console players than PC players.

Console players tend to be more casual. They tend to play for less consecutive hours than your typicall MMO junkie. With exception of course.

So vet ranks are going to seem like even more of an insurmountable obstacle for them.

Console players are going to be the same as PC players. They will be split about vet ranks issues because there will always be differences among people. There are plenty consoles players that play Cod,Halo and Battlefield. Which has longer grind systems then the vet systems and there plenty that play enough to reach these high ranks. Even Destiny has a grind system in place and a raid system that plenty of console players play hardcore. So will not be a anything differnt in views.

Alphashado

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

It is even possible they will not remove them. If, by any chance, they get accepted better by the console crowd, they will surely stay. And since ZOS still sees VR levels as something added to the game, it could also be a part of their marketing to that crowd.

I will go out on a limb and suggest that vet ranks will be even more unpopular with console players than PC players.

Console players tend to be more casual. They tend to play for less consecutive hours than your typicall MMO junkie. With exception of course.

So vet ranks are going to seem like even more of an insurmountable obstacle for them.

Console players are going to be the same as PC players. They will be split about vet ranks issues because there will always be differences among people. There are plenty consoles players that play Cod,Halo and Battlefield. Which has longer grind systems then the vet systems and there plenty that play enough to reach these high ranks. Even Destiny has a grind system in place and a raid system that plenty of console players play hardcore. So will not be a anything differnt in views.

I guess time will tell. My money is on the forums blowing up starting about a month after console launch.

Anvos

I'm still of the argument that the system works the way it is with VR accounting for gear and items and CP counting as an account legacy system.

If anything removing vet will at best change little to nothing for the better as your just switching VR12+ requirements for champ point say 360+ requirements and you'd easily get a character to v14 way before your near multi hundred to eventually thousand cp. Thus your friends newer to the game will still not be able to play the end game content with you since they would lack the required cp progression when their a fresh lvl 50 who will stay behind until they reach like the 1,100-1,200 range where you can have all top tier passives unlocked.

Also these proposals to make things based on cp essentially means your creating wasted crafting tiers and having alt characters get a massive, and even more massive if more crafting tiers are added, jumps in power from level 49-VR(or whatever you call 50 then).

Leeric

I bet this another thing that they lied about, I doubt they'll get removed at this point.

Razzak

Alphashado wrote: »

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

It is even possible they will not remove them. If, by any chance, they get accepted better by the console crowd, they will surely stay. And since ZOS still sees VR levels as something added to the game, it could also be a part of their marketing to that crowd.

I will go out on a limb and suggest that vet ranks will be even more unpopular with console players than PC players.

Console players tend to be more casual. They tend to play for less consecutive hours than your typicall MMO junkie. With exception of course.

So vet ranks are going to seem like even more of an insurmountable obstacle for them.

Console players are going to be the same as PC players. They will be split about vet ranks issues because there will always be differences among people. There are plenty consoles players that play Cod,Halo and Battlefield. Which has longer grind systems then the vet systems and there plenty that play enough to reach these high ranks. Even Destiny has a grind system in place and a raid system that plenty of console players play hardcore. So will not be a anything differnt in views.

I guess time will tell. My money is on the forums blowing up starting about a month after console launch.

I find Vet ranks problem interesting. While, on one hand, they do make questing extremely tedious and to some point also lore braking, they do lengthen player's questing experience.
So, their removal could also hurt ESO, by making it feel like much, much shorter game. But, like you said, only time will tell.

felinith66

Leeric wrote: »

I bet this another thing that they lied about, I doubt they'll get removed at this point.

I'm starting to doubt it also. In one interview, Paul Sage said that the VR system is not being removed before console release because they can't figure out what to do w/ the VR level gears and mats, and will continue to exist after console release. But on ESO Live last Friday, they said they were planning on adding VR14 equivalent to items/sets like Soulshine. Which makes you wonder why they would do this if they are already having a hard time figuring out how to change VR items when the VR system is removed. Adding new V14 items then changing them a few months later doesn't make any sense to me. The obvious answer is that they aren't removing VR system at all.

Alphashado

Razzak wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

It is even possible they will not remove them. If, by any chance, they get accepted better by the console crowd, they will surely stay. And since ZOS still sees VR levels as something added to the game, it could also be a part of their marketing to that crowd.

I will go out on a limb and suggest that vet ranks will be even more unpopular with console players than PC players.

Console players tend to be more casual. They tend to play for less consecutive hours than your typicall MMO junkie. With exception of course.

So vet ranks are going to seem like even more of an insurmountable obstacle for them.

Console players are going to be the same as PC players. They will be split about vet ranks issues because there will always be differences among people. There are plenty consoles players that play Cod,Halo and Battlefield. Which has longer grind systems then the vet systems and there plenty that play enough to reach these high ranks. Even Destiny has a grind system in place and a raid system that plenty of console players play hardcore. So will not be a anything differnt in views.

I guess time will tell. My money is on the forums blowing up starting about a month after console launch.

I find Vet ranks problem interesting. While, on one hand, they do make questing extremely tedious and to some point also lore braking, they do lengthen player's questing experience.
So, their removal could also hurt ESO, by making it feel like much, much shorter game. But, like you said, only time will tell.

I believe that the champion system provides almost endless incentive to continue questing after lvl 50. With or without vet ranks. Questing is a great way to earn CP.

felinith66 wrote: »

I'm starting to doubt it also. In one interview, Paul Sage said that the VR system is not being removed before console release because they can't figure out what to do w/ the VR level gears and mats, and will continue to exist after console release. But on ESO Live last Friday, they said they were planning on adding VR14 equivalent to items/sets like Soulshine. Which makes you wonder why they would do this if they are already having a hard time figuring out how to change VR items when the VR system is removed. Adding new V14 items then changing them a few months later doesn't make any sense to me. The obvious answer is that they aren't removing VR system at all.

My biggest concern is that zos now looks at Vet Ranks as a potential jackpot. People will pay handsomely for xp boosters. All of a sudden what was once a developmental mistake has become a potential gold mine.

Seraphyel

Don't expect anything to be done before console launch. There won't be anything until June and I am quite sure not even in June / July huge things will take place.

This game is in the maintenance mode right now, everything is focused on the rescuing console launch. If that will fail, this game will vanish within 1 or 2 years - so it's obvious why they are neglecting PC players but that doesn't make it acceptable at all.

I guess: if console version is successful, they will remove VR (maybe) by the end of the year. If the console version receives the lukewarm success of PC ESO, VR ranks will never be removed or reworked because the needed work simply doesn't add up to increase revenue.

Razzak

Alphashado wrote: »

...

I believe that the champion system provides almost endless incentive to continue questing after lvl 50. With or without vet ranks. Questing is a great way to earn CP.

...

True. I was wrong in my previous statement, where I was actually thinking about silver and gold while writing about VR levels.

NewBlacksmurf

The faith ZOS seems non-existent based on comments to remove VR at all

I_killed_Vivec

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Hey everyone, this has nothing to do with dropping anyone to level 50.
Just as it works today you ding 50, and then instead of the next exp going to VR1, it would label you as champion level "x" and continue to boost account exp as the champion system does today.

Raising the character levels isn't a part of the conversion as ZOS isn't looking at raising the max character level because VR is much higher than 50. The goal is to finish the conversion they started.

In essence a VR1 = champ levels 1-5
VR2 = champ levels 6-10
VR3 = champ levels 11-15
......
VR14 = champ levels 70+

The gear and item requirements would also follow these champion levels.
The NPC could respectively follow this conversion too so it's easy to notice progression and content difficulty.

This is a simplistic change towards ZOS's VR removal.

Or just make VR universal across all of your post level 50 characters. Then they wouldn't have to change a thing...

However, there's more than one problem with VR, depending who you talk to:

- There's the people who don't want to have to repeat the grind for alts, and your solution will please these people.

- There's the people who don't want to have to do Cadwell's at all, your solution does nothing for them, they will still have to grind CP.

- There's the people who expect to be "competitive" as soon as they reach level 50. Again, the CP grind means that will not be the case.

Personally, I want the post-level 50 progression. I don't think I'd play the game if it were removed.

Also, as someone else pointed out, I want that progression reflected in gated content. If everything scales then you cease to be a warrior and become a tourist.

Anoteros

JD2013 wrote: »

Won't be gone until X amount of time after the console release.

But there again I do have a question about this. Why do people so badly want them gone?

You'll still be going through gold and silver. Just without veteran levels.

What is an MMO without progression? If everyone is at level 50, aside from champion points, what is the point of going through new content (as it won't be a progression)

Without new levels to attain, except champion points everyone will be the same, and even they have a cap.

Because it's a tedious gated grind which essentially creates rifts between players, progression and content.
Unnecessary drip feed of content to hide the fact they rushed release with no real end game.

Leveling further into Veteran ranks is one of the things I am not looking forward to at all.

McDoogs

I don't like the veteran levels, but I don't see how they are going to produce new quality content (they need DLCs for income now that it's b2p) fast enough while at the same time completely overhauling the veteran ranks (progression, items, mobs, dungeons, etc).

I just don't see it, and if the population holds steady through console launch with veteran ranks in I think they are going to scrap the idea as unfeasible.

NewBlacksmurf

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Hey everyone, this has nothing to do with dropping anyone to level 50.
Just as it works today you ding 50, and then instead of the next exp going to VR1, it would label you as champion level "x" and continue to boost account exp as the champion system does today.

Raising the character levels isn't a part of the conversion as ZOS isn't looking at raising the max character level because VR is much higher than 50. The goal is to finish the conversion they started.

In essence a VR1 = champ levels 1-5
VR2 = champ levels 6-10
VR3 = champ levels 11-15
......
VR14 = champ levels 70+

The gear and item requirements would also follow these champion levels.
The NPC could respectively follow this conversion too so it's easy to notice progression and content difficulty.

This is a simplistic change towards ZOS's VR removal.

Or just make VR universal across all of your post level 50 characters. Then they wouldn't have to change a thing...

However, there's more than one problem with VR, depending who you talk to:

- There's the people who don't want to have to repeat the grind for alts, and your solution will please these people.

- There's the people who don't want to have to do Cadwell's at all, your solution does nothing for them, they will still have to grind CP.

- There's the people who expect to be "competitive" as soon as they reach level 50. Again, the CP grind means that will not be the case.

Personally, I want the post-level 50 progression. I don't think I'd play the game if it were removed.

Also, as someone else pointed out, I want that progression reflected in gated content. If everything scales then you cease to be a warrior and become a tourist.

Ok...I'm trying to us the champion system but that works I guess. I think....

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO

Seriously I never felt I really began to play a char until the veteran levels started. The lvl 1 to 50 seems like a short flash of prelude to the real playing of the character.

I would hate to see veteran levels go, the time it takes to get to v14 is fine, why have levels at all if it is just something to get over so you can get to the "real game" that is just stupid. The leveling itself should be a part of the game.

coryevans_3b14_ESO

Leeric wrote: »

I bet this another thing that they lied about, I doubt they'll get removed at this point.

Woah, easy there. It will make no difference to anything when it is changed. I don't understand what the hurry is at all. Everything will still be exactly the same, only the names will change. Calm down. Please complain about the horses stopping randomly. That is legit and seriz biznizz. This is nothing.

McDoogs

Again I don't like the veteran ranks too much, but vr1-14 is much easier than vr1-10 was at launch, and with the champion system going vr1-14 is the best way to gain champion points. Leveling my sorceror alt to vr14 has netted me 65 champion points.

Basically I'm saying that the vet grind is both fairly easy (especially in relation to how it was at release) and rewarding in terms of character power. 1-50 can be done so easily it barely counts as character progression imo.

NewBlacksmurf

coryevans_3b14_ESO wrote: »

Leeric wrote: »

I bet this another thing that they lied about, I doubt they'll get removed at this point.

Woah, easy there. It will make no difference to anything when it is changed. I don't understand what the hurry is at all. Everything will still be exactly the same, only the names will change. Calm down. Please complain about the horses stopping randomly. That is legit and seriz biznizz. This is nothing.

I disagree that the change will be the same. The change or removal of these VR level designations should have a huge positive change over the current post 50 leveling based on character by character that moves towards an account based system.

NewBlacksmurf

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

Seriously I never felt I really began to play a char until the veteran levels started. The lvl 1 to 50 seems like a short flash of prelude to the real playing of the character.

I would hate to see veteran levels go, the time it takes to get to v14 is fine, why have levels at all if it is just something to get over so you can get to the "real game" that is just stupid. The leveling itself should be a part of the game.

The VR content is not leaving but the per character designation will change is all. I do agree that the VR content should stay but I would like to see it opened up more through this conversion by ZOS

nalimoleb14_ESO

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Artemiisia wrote: »

its not going to happen, why:

1. they havent spoken about the last stage in months
2. the earning of champion points start first at vr1
3. with so many gear between vr1 - vr14 in the game it would be a pain to change
4. the vr14 levels are released in the consuls versions
5. that means 3 places to remove it and 3 times the workload

Give it up

It wouldn't be hard at all.... they could just convert everything VR1-14 down to VR1 specs. Yes, I have tons of expensive and rare VR14 gear that would be nerfed overnight, but so what? Everyone else's gear would be nerfed, too!

Uhm yeah, that will be a giant hell to the no from me. I don't care either way whether veteran ranks get removed or not, but I sure as hell will care if the gear I've grinded several months for and upgraded to legendary + expensive legendary crafted gear get nerfed from VR14 to VR1 stats. Enough with this nerf b.s.; you might be cool with the idea, but that doesn't mean the majority of players will be. If ZOS is going to get rid of veteran ranks, then they should do so in such a way that those who are already at VR14 and have VR14 gear don't get penalized because of this change. We didn't work our ***es off grinding or completing Caldwell's Gold and Silver quest lines for months just so we can end up on the same playing field as those who didn't.

Naivefanboi

Artemiisia wrote: »

its not going to happen, why:

1. they havent spoken about the last stage in months
2. the earning of champion points start first at vr1
3. with so many gear between vr1 - vr14 in the game it would be a pain to change
4. the vr14 levels are released in the consuls versions
5. that means 3 places to remove it and 3 times the workload

Give it up

ditto xp is easy to get anyways. farm 3 champ points a day not even trying lol.

Carnagan

The gear isn't the only thing that needs to be considered when removing Veteran Ranks, and that's part of why they need to proceed with caution.

You remove the Veteran Ranks and you remove the ability of players to receive up to 14 Skill Points and Attribute increases that come with those levels. Just removing the levels would also mean just removing those skill points and attributes. No one else could gain them after all.

Seriously, don't kid yourself. They aren't leaving anyone with a mechanical benefit that no one else has access to. No company would.

vanddalx

The veteran ranks should have been removed before the TU launch. Poor decision imho.

Anilahation

It shouldn't be removed they should just work like light levels in Destiny.


equipping a full set of vr14 armor makes you vr14.

removing it makes you vr1.

the reason for this is so ZOS doesn't need to waste time with a stat squish like WoW did.

Current cap is vr14, they add wrothgar that has vr15 gear and vr15 mats.

sparafucilsarwb17_ESO

I have no problems with VR levels at all.

McDoogs

vanddalx wrote: »

The veteran ranks should have been removed before the TU launch. Poor decision imho.

I think that they didn't do it because they couldn't figure out how.

NewBlacksmurf

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

It shouldn't be removed they should just work like light levels in Destiny.


equipping a full set of vr14 armor makes you vr14.

removing it makes you vr1.

the reason for this is so ZOS doesn't need to waste time with a stat squish like WoW did.

Current cap is vr14, they add wrothgar that has vr15 gear and vr15 mats.

I have to disagree. IF they did this a lot of people would quit.