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[Screenshot] 50% "Experience Booster" - ZOS, can we get a confirmation or further details?
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Dekkameron✭✭✭✭✭I'm ok with a +50% exp potion.. but really only if the cooldown was a lot longer.. like at least a day.- Veteran Combat Librarian -2 -
Lionxoft✭✭✭✭✭
✭Shehriazad wrote: »I still fail to see how 50% XP potions are pay to win.
Grinding XP faster =/= Turning you into a winner
Sure...if the person spams those pots until he reaches 3600 CP...he will get there faster than a non paying person...but let's be real...you are still looking at hundreds to thousands of hours of playtime, aye?
Not to mention CPs have diminishing returns. The difference between someone with 2400 CP vs someone with 3600 is pretty much 0 in a battle situation.
Since at some point you will have to skill CPs that are useless to you and don't actually make you stronger in battle. So what's the point?
Yes...someone spending a few hundred $ a month will be at the new insane CP cap faster than you...but does he get something youc an't get? No.
Will he be way stronger in battle than you? Hell no.
I'd say after like 1000 CP or so the BATTLE stat difference for ANY given build should be somewhere between 0-1%.
First, it's 70% cumulative paid xp benefit since they bonuses are additive which translates to an increasing power advantage if sustained. Secondly, people will use these one after another to grind and get themselves far beyond the power levels of those not using them. I think that a lot of people misunderstand what some MMO players are willing to spend or devote their lives to in order to stay competitive.
Just to put that point into perspective a player in 1.5 (Not sure progress now. Could be finished.) was one or two alliance ranks from being completely finished with what was at the time the most arduous task/grind in the game which didn't grant any power benefits to my knowledge. Give people that benefit of power to keep grinding and they will keep grinding... Usually.
Edited by Lionxoft on March 19, 2015 11:32PM2 -
Obscure✭✭✭✭✭Boosters shouldn't determine the rate of end game progression. That's my opinion but I'm firm in that.
I find the terms "End game" and "progression" to be mutually exclusive. If you're still progressing vertically you aren't at the end. If there's still more mountain to climb to reach the point where there's nothing left to climb, you've yet to successfully reach the end game (you can move side to side or climb back down).
Most players in ESO will not see the end game within the next 5 years, if ever.
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Natjur✭✭✭✭✭
✭My only issue with a 2hr 50% extra exp is that is will cause more grinding as that's the best exp per hour at the moment.
If the potion was for a set amount of exp like the enlightenment is and you could only use 1 ever 2hrs. THEN is might be ok cause people would use it while questing.2 -
Lionxoft✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dekkameron wrote: »I'm ok with a +50% exp potion.. but really only if the cooldown was a lot longer.. like at least a day.
The cooldown on this potion is only so that you don't chug two of them back to back and have to ask support for a refund. :P1 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Being able to pay to my way to stronger stats certainly is a convenient way to win."If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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Lionxoft✭✭✭✭✭
✭WraithAzraiel wrote: »How about NOOO? Geez, this B2P is getting P2W more and more every day
What's P2W? They already removed the Magicka, Health and Stamina potions from the Crown Store, because people were crying. Are you going to now try to convince others (and yourself for that matter) that repair kits and soul gems are Pay 2 Win items?
While I agree 50% may be a bit much but if they stick to the original idea that it will be available for not only Crowns but ALSO IN GAME GOLD, then who does it hurt? The people who are broke in game? Their wealth is nobody's problem but their own.
They removed the h/s/m potions from the crown store because I believe they were unintentionally more powerful than those that were crafted. I'm sure they will make a return but in a fashion that was more in line with the expectation set by ZOS for the players.
I think that if they are available by other means besides crowns such as in-game gold then there's absolutely NO problem with this at all. I find the edit to their original statement in the February 2015 Road Ahead article telling of their intentions though as they no longer guarantee that these will be available via in-game gold. Hope I'm wrong!3 -
Muizer✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just when you think ZoS care about the competitiveness of casual players in the CS (enlightenment, nerfing grind spots), you get this? If it's true that's a bit like them saying "it's not that we mind people getting way ahead of others, it's the fact that they haven't paid for it in hard cash".
Please stop making requests for game features. ZOS have enough bad ideas as it is!7 -
Grigs✭✭Once EXP boosts are in game, you are buying an item that lets you skip the game. Cool! Right? Pay to skip the game, yay!
So, in two weeks when people shout, where is the content? You can blame the boosts.
The content will then come in the form of DLC, paid of course.
Buy to play is seemingly becoming a bait a switch. Buy, to keep on paying.
And before people shout at me saying they need to make money. Path of Exile makes money off stash and skins. Also, the game still costs $60.
That is money.
They do not need to put the boosts in, the choose to. It will make some short term cash, like all games that go free. They die off because all the content is skipped with boosts.
We have a large chunk of games to reference here, none did well after EXP boosts were incorporated. I wonder if they have a research team.
Lastly, they will now lower exp rates to make buying a boost that much more worth it. The grind is going to be laid down thick.
The sky is not falling, it is slowly going to float down until the last whale dries up. No more whales for the company to bilk.
They could of just went bag space and skins, imagine how awesome that would have been. A truly legit cash shop, not, pay money to skip the game.Edited by Grigs on March 19, 2015 11:56PM"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's razor10 -
Shadesofkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭This potion is not on the pts, so I'm not sure which stream the guy who posted this was watching, but I'm beginning to assume a hater photoshopped it.0 -
Lionxoft✭✭✭✭✭
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Is Sanctum Ophidia on hard mode not considered end game content? What about the other trials? Maybe PvP at a high level? We have differing views on what is considered end game and that's cool. I never though about it with the concept you presented. I don't agree with it but I can appreciate it nonetheless.0 -
Rosveen✭✭✭✭✭
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Champion Ranks are they only reason why people would buy them regularly. Especially if vet ranks do eventually go away.aisriyth_ESO wrote: »Easy solution is just make them invalid for champion ranks.Edited by Rosveen on March 19, 2015 11:44PM0 -
Reykice✭✭✭✭✭Clear pay to win, if this gets implemented with the Champion System as it is now i`m just going to go through the story then quit... no points in PVP`ing or anything really when people can buy their way to the top.
You really can`t add the Champ System then add 50% xp potions and still claim it`s not a pay to win game.Edited by Reykice on March 19, 2015 11:46PM14 -
Lionxoft✭✭✭✭✭
✭Shadesofkin wrote: »This potion is not on the pts, so I'm not sure which stream the guy who posted this was watching, but I'm beginning to assume a hater photoshopped it.
He's a streamer that has been associated with this game since it was in the "real closed beta" (2 years now I think?). He has no reason to photoshop or manufacture this and I know for a fact he did not do that as I watched the stream live.
Please, take your conspiracy theory somewhere else.
Edited by Lionxoft on March 19, 2015 11:47PM3 -
Shadesofkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭Based on what you told me in another thread I'm willing to retract my current theory.0 -
Lionxoft✭✭✭✭✭
✭Shadesofkin wrote: »Based on what you told me in another thread I'm willing to retract my current theory.
@Shadesofkin
Completely understandable. I mean, I had my doubts and that's one of the reasons I'd like ZOS to chime in and let the community know a solid and unwavering answer as to how these will be implemented.
Regardless, the source is highly reliable and shouldn't be discounted. It's more of ZOS' implementation that leaves me skeptical.
Edited by Lionxoft on March 19, 2015 11:53PM0 -
charley222✭✭✭✭more xp =more champion point =character more strong=pay to winthe wall of the covenant14 -
Zershar_Vemod✭✭✭✭✭Shadesofkin wrote: »This potion is not on the pts, so I'm not sure which stream the guy who posted this was watching, but I'm beginning to assume a hater photoshopped it.
Someone was item linking the xp boost to Cyrodiil chat lately.House Nyssara (NA)
Black Market Traders
Order of the Lamp Post
Thorn Brigade
VR15 Nightblade Vampire0 -
Grigs✭✭charley222 wrote: »more xp =more champion point =character more strong=pay to win
That sums it up."Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's razor7 -
hazune✭✭✭Zenimax FAIL AGANE !!! Jina mayby u say somting?
P2W - lets beginPolska Gildia - Ebonheart pact
XENOTAVERN
xenotavern.com4 -
Flynch✭✭✭✭To play Devil's Advocate here - if we're assuming loads of players will be buying these pots to use over and over again to maintain their advantage (if only a few people do this, then it's not that big of a deal) - that's a lot of cash being ploughed into the company.
Theoretically that would mean a greater chance of more regular quality content and generally a smoother/more enjoyable experience for everyone else.
/flamecoat engaged3 -
Obscure✭✭✭✭✭
Is Sanctum Ophidia on hard mode not considered end game content? What about the other trials? Maybe PvP at a high level? We have differing views on what is considered end game and that's cool. I never though about it with the concept you presented. I don't agree with it but I can appreciate it nonetheless.
What's to stop them from adding features, gear, etc. from having a "Champion Rank X " requirement? This system facilitates the ability to do exactly that, for years to come.
Hard mode SO is now the illusion of an end game activity. Characters are still vertically improving, making that content incrementally less challenging. In an actual end game, difficulty remains static, with new content providing challenges that require horizontal progression to overcome (respecializing, inventing new strategies, changing equipment, etc.). SO will literally be incrementally easier with each champion point gained, just like every bit of content that got incrementally easier prior to it. That's the dynamic of a vertical progression system, which the Champion System is.
Exactly one year from now, a Max level character that just hits Max level compared to a character that has been grinding Champion Points for that same year, will have vast progression differences. Interestingly enough, both will still be no where near the end game.1 -
Inactive Account✭✭✭✭If experience gain gets "nerfed" in a patch and suddenly, an item which can be bought for real money, is introduced into the Crown store ( XP booster ), this raises alarm bells for me.
Something going down here....Edited by Inactive Account on March 20, 2015 12:02AM6 -
charley222✭✭✭✭the most funny there is only 2 day after tamriel unlimited lolol what to expect after a few extra month lolol
a lot of player already leave the guild (good pvp player )and the game 3 or 4 month ago
because expecting this issue Edited by charley222 on March 20, 2015 12:20AMthe wall of the covenant6 -
Lionxoft✭✭✭✭✭
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Is Sanctum Ophidia on hard mode not considered end game content? What about the other trials? Maybe PvP at a high level? We have differing views on what is considered end game and that's cool. I never though about it with the concept you presented. I don't agree with it but I can appreciate it nonetheless.
What's to stop them from adding features, gear, etc. from having a "Champion Rank X " requirement? This system facilitates the ability to do exactly that, for years to come.
Hard mode SO is now the illusion of an end game activity. Characters are still vertically improving, making that content incrementally less challenging. In an actual end game, difficulty remains static, with new content providing challenges that require horizontal progression to overcome (respecializing, inventing new strategies, changing equipment, etc.). SO will literally be incrementally easier with each champion point gained, just like every bit of content that got incrementally easier prior to it. That's the dynamic of a vertical progression system, which the Champion System is.
Exactly one year from now, a Max level character that just hits Max level compared to a character that has been grinding Champion Points for that same year, will have vast progression differences. Interestingly enough, both will still be no where near the end game.
I personally believe as well that Champion Ranks will be implemented as tiered progression for gear however should a cash shop booster item assist you through that progression? I have a very hard time convincing myself that a bonus to innate character power or the rate it is earned should be granted via purchase while that affects the competitiveness of the game. The champion system is not the end game content. I think I speak for more than myself when I say that trials and PvP are considered competitive end game content with the champion system being an alternate advancement system that just allows your character to keep getting stronger.
Buying power or enhancing the way it is accrued via the method of exclusive cash shop purchases is flawed. Especially if it affects competitive trial times or PvP. Your spending shouldn't determine your character strength.
I think we have differing opinions on what end game content actually is and that might stem from our history playing different MMO or games. No harm in that. 3 -
angelyn✭✭✭✭So assuming that the screenie is legitimate, this is just where my brain headed.
1. Change game so that instead of needing X xp for a level, you now need 4X xp for a champion point.In order to make space for that system, many player stats were altered to be a lower amount, with CPts being allocated to make up the stats that were altered.However,some players felt that they had to grind further CPts to get their character to previous level of power.(may or may not be accurate)
2. 50% XP booster appears ,available in exchange for cash
So unless you want to progress 4 times slower than you previously did, shell out some cash.
-CPts/attribute points are gained by earning XP
-CPts/attribute points make your character more competitive
-Shelling out money means you accrue that competitiveness at a faster rate.
= pay money to get competitive advantage.
=pay to win?
Personally, think it becomes P2W if there is no way to obtain that % boost(whether it's 10% or 50%) without buying it with real money or crowns that are worth real money.If they don't plan to incorporate a reasonable in game way of getting these, then spending money will give you a direct advantage over someone who didn't spend that money.If CPts don't matter at higher amounts then what's the point of them being in the game? Even if the CPts/attribute points advantage is tiny, it's still an advantage over someone who doesn't have those points( in PVP and PVE), since CP/attribute points are tied to the amount of XP you accrue.
I already felt the rings of mara were dubious since there was no way to obtain them without paying real money for them. These are just my own thoughts. I may be completely wrong but that screenshot made me feel a bit deflated about the direction ESO may take.(Assuming that the screenshot does accurately portray ZOS plans ).Edited by angelyn on March 20, 2015 12:19PM4 -
Natjur✭✭✭✭✭
✭If everyone had max CP in PVP, would exp potions to earn CP points faster, still be pay to win?
The game is balanced so someone with zero CP can still do all the quests and instances (excluding trials) without issues.
Would 'Convenience' potions to earn CP\exp faster still be pay to win if it does not effect any other players (as in it does not effect PVP)
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Lionxoft✭✭✭✭✭
✭If everyone had max CP in PVP, would exp potions to earn CP points faster, still be pay to win?
The game is balanced so someone with zero CP can still do all the quests and instances (excluding trials) without issues.
Would 'Convenience' potions to earn CP\exp faster still be pay to win if it does not effect any other players (as in it does not effect PVP)
I think you'd need to include competitive trials and other events as well since they have fairly competitive leaderboards. EG: World First/Fastest etc and all that.3 -
Natjur✭✭✭✭✭
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I exclude them cause they are hard to do if you have Zero CP points. And I am not sure how you can stop that from being Buy to Win if you could purchase large exp bonuses or CP points. And the main reason so many players are farming CP points now is so they can get better trial runs...... So that is a can of worms I don't want to touch.If everyone had max CP in PVP, would exp potions to earn CP points faster, still be pay to win?
The game is balanced so someone with zero CP can still do all the quests and instances (excluding trials) without issues.
Would 'Convenience' potions to earn CP\exp faster still be pay to win if it does not effect any other players (as in it does not effect PVP)
I think you'd need to include competitive trials and other events as well since they have fairly competitive leaderboards. EG: World First/Fastest etc and all that.
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