Endgame PvE Magicka Sorcerer DPS 1.6.3 - Good Job Zenimax! On Par with Other Magicka DPS Classes.

Tankqull

ToRelax wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

halfbadger wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Ancile wrote: »

You got high dps numbers on pve dumb mobs? So what?

It does not add anything to the discussion of sorc survivability, pvp dps, and broken mechanics. I can print some amazing numbers too if you give me enough non-reactive training dummies.

Agreed. I can do 9000 DPS against dumb Mammoths with my Stamina build Sorc and no crit pots, ultimates or gimmicks.... but that proves nothing when I can still get murdered by a pack of wasps in Craglorn!

If ZoS won't remove the infamous COOLDOWN on Critical Surge heals, they need to give us some other means for healing ourselves in the middle of intense combat.

Sorcs have the best self heal in the game on the pts right now.

doubt that 1.5sec CT + a bit over 1sec summon delay makes the a heal a once per fight heal (at leas t in pvp as no one with half a brain cell will let you cast it as summoning the pet has an extreamly obvious animation)

Unstable Familiar has no Cast time and believe me, with clever play you can manage summoning a Twilight, if you want to, too.

ah - mea culpa thaught the release heal was restricted to the matriach in that case its truly powerfull

manny254

florian.billeb16_ESO wrote: »

Every class can tank, but for some class it's more easy, because they have some passive or specific spell or self-heal.

You have right for almost every dungeon sorcerer can tank, but try to do DSA arena in hardmode with a sorcerer tank... and you will see the difference.

For your second point, maybe it's normal that close combat class (stamina build) do a little more damage, but if the case that stamina build will do 20-50 % more damage, what is the utility in raid for sorcerer. they will not be taken as tank, or heal, or DPS, even if they are the most powerfull magicka class.

People will just take class that do the max DPS, so if sorcerer are not good enough, why you want to take a sorcerer when an other class can do 30- 50 % more damage ? and maybe 609 100 % for AOE DPS

By the way... negation has no more utility by the way in most raid for 1.6.

A tank in our guild who is a sorc has completed vet dsa enough times to have almost all the master weapons with good traits. So I am pretty dam sure a sorc can tank vet dsa.

Your complaint about stam is still makes no sense. It has nothing to with sorcs. Complain about magic vs stam not sorcs.

Once again sorc does the best magic damage. If you think a raid group is not going to take any magic based dps you are crazy. If your group doesn't take any then they are the exception not the rule. You do not balance an entire game around the exception.

ToRelax

Tankqull wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

halfbadger wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Ancile wrote: »

You got high dps numbers on pve dumb mobs? So what?

It does not add anything to the discussion of sorc survivability, pvp dps, and broken mechanics. I can print some amazing numbers too if you give me enough non-reactive training dummies.

Agreed. I can do 9000 DPS against dumb Mammoths with my Stamina build Sorc and no crit pots, ultimates or gimmicks.... but that proves nothing when I can still get murdered by a pack of wasps in Craglorn!

If ZoS won't remove the infamous COOLDOWN on Critical Surge heals, they need to give us some other means for healing ourselves in the middle of intense combat.

Sorcs have the best self heal in the game on the pts right now.

doubt that 1.5sec CT + a bit over 1sec summon delay makes the a heal a once per fight heal (at leas t in pvp as no one with half a brain cell will let you cast it as summoning the pet has an extreamly obvious animation)

Unstable Familiar has no Cast time and believe me, with clever play you can manage summoning a Twilight, if you want to, too.

ah - mea culpa thaught the release heal was restricted to the matriach in that case its truly powerfull

Both pets have a self heal morph now.

The Clannfear heals you for 35% of your max health when you desummon it or it dies.

The Twilight Matriarch will channel a heal once you are below 30 (?) % max health. I haven't tested it on PTS where it has a smaller health pool, but on Live, It will channel you it's own health until it's under 50% (so it does not just heal you whenever needed with only one summoning).

C0pp3rhead

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

All you need is a calculator, which comes with windows lol.

Incidentally, you claim that their posted numbers matched the video. The ACTUAL fight takes 51 seconds to end. That's from the video... So the "parses" they linked don't even match up to that.

Btw... your other evidence notes of how it would be impossible for them to hold the numbers in chat or other nonsense. Say hello to Cntrl C and Cntrl V, which like a calculator are built into windows.

Is it fake? who knows and being that it's presented in a we won't tell you our build but sorcs are fine way.... who really cares?

I timed it at around 50s, close to the 49.8s that Ewan reported. If you actually use FTC (or a similar addon, which high-end PvE groups deem necessary), you would know that players do not always enter combat at the same second.

Moreover, I never claimed that falsifying their numbers is impossible. I merely say that falsifying such numbers would take alot of work. Certainly, it's possible that they're falsifying their numbers, the video, etc. It would take alotta effort. What I should say is: the reported dps is commensurate with stamina sorc dps that I have seen on the live server.

Derra

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Every post I see from Sorcs has been so far "We suck in PvE, buff us!".

Someone posts a PVE build with good ranged dps mind you, and its now "We suck in PvP, buff us!"

Also i´m not 100% certain i am pretty sure this is not a ranged build as it utilized storm armor as a dot which has around 6m range. It´s a melee build.

florian.billeb16_ESO

manny254 wrote: »

A tank in our guild who is a sorc has completed vet dsa enough times to have almost all the master weapons with good traits. So I am pretty dam sure a sorc can tank vet dsa.

Your complaint about stam is still makes no sense. It has nothing to with sorcs. Complain about magic vs stam not sorcs.

Once again sorc does the best magic damage. If you think a raid group is not going to take any magic based dps you are crazy. If your group doesn't take any then they are the exception not the rule. You do not balance an entire game around the exception.

No problem, sorc can tank even DSA arena, but sorcerer are just simply not the best tank, it''s just more simple to tank with a DK or a templar the DSA arena, but that is not the main problem.

If I understand well all changement for 1.6. stamina build will be much bether than magicka and you agree about that.
Sorcerer has not good stamina possibility since the changement with power/critical surge (no more big boost of weapon damage), just as other class can do.
so
1) Stamina build will be much bether than magicka build for DPS
2) Stamina sorcerer will be much weaker than other stamina build for DPS
3) and my question again, how much will be the difference between a good stamina build (for NB or DK) and the magicka build for sorcerer ? if it's 10 % no problem, that's fair. if it's 30-50 % less damage, all magicka build and specialy sorcerer need a real buff to be competitive.

But the big mistake of Zenimax is the change of critical surge, the problem is not the heal of this spell, but they have change the weapon bonus who was the key point for sorcerer to be competitf (with other class), for both stamina and magicka, for sorcerer heal...

we changement of the bonus of critical surge, sorcerers have lost a lot of think, possibility for healling raid (with healing spring), good dps for stamina sorcerer... and a special spell for magicka sorcerer...

and some big problem are still here.
The cost of spell (much more magicka for some spell than other class).
Passif with not a lot synergy
useless spell.

manny254

florian.billeb16_ESO wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

A tank in our guild who is a sorc has completed vet dsa enough times to have almost all the master weapons with good traits. So I am pretty dam sure a sorc can tank vet dsa.

Your complaint about stam is still makes no sense. It has nothing to with sorcs. Complain about magic vs stam not sorcs.

Once again sorc does the best magic damage. If you think a raid group is not going to take any magic based dps you are crazy. If your group doesn't take any then they are the exception not the rule. You do not balance an entire game around the exception.

No problem, sorc can tank even DSA arena, but sorcerer are just simply not the best tank, it''s just more simple to tank with a DK or a templar the DSA arena, but that is not the main problem.

If I understand well all changement for 1.6. stamina build will be much bether than magicka and you agree about that.
Sorcerer has not good stamina possibility since the changement with power/critical surge (no more big boost of weapon damage), just as other class can do.
so
1) Stamina build will be much bether than magicka build for DPS
2) Stamina sorcerer will be much weaker than other stamina build for DPS
3) and my question again, how much will be the difference between a good stamina build (for NB or DK) and the magicka build for sorcerer ? if it's 10 % no problem, that's fair. if it's 30-50 % less damage, all magicka build and specialy sorcerer need a real buff to be competitive.

But the big mistake of Zenimax is the change of critical surge, the problem is not the heal of this spell, but they have change the weapon bonus who was the key point for sorcerer to be competitf (with other class), for both stamina and magicka, for sorcerer heal...

we changement of the bonus of critical surge, sorcerers have lost a lot of think, possibility for healling raid (with healing spring), good dps for stamina sorcerer... and a special spell for magicka sorcerer...

and some big problem are still here.
The cost of spell (much more magicka for some spell than other class).
Passif with not a lot synergy
useless spell.

Sorc is not weaker than most stamina builds. From what I have seen they are in line with templar and slightly above NB.

The only class that has stamina builds that are stronger than others is DK. I really want this fixed, but complaining about it doesn't seem to do anything because the devs seem to be set on DK being the best dps.

Tankqull

manny254 wrote: »

florian.billeb16_ESO wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

A tank in our guild who is a sorc has completed vet dsa enough times to have almost all the master weapons with good traits. So I am pretty dam sure a sorc can tank vet dsa.

Your complaint about stam is still makes no sense. It has nothing to with sorcs. Complain about magic vs stam not sorcs.

Once again sorc does the best magic damage. If you think a raid group is not going to take any magic based dps you are crazy. If your group doesn't take any then they are the exception not the rule. You do not balance an entire game around the exception.

No problem, sorc can tank even DSA arena, but sorcerer are just simply not the best tank, it''s just more simple to tank with a DK or a templar the DSA arena, but that is not the main problem.

If I understand well all changement for 1.6. stamina build will be much bether than magicka and you agree about that.
Sorcerer has not good stamina possibility since the changement with power/critical surge (no more big boost of weapon damage), just as other class can do.
so
1) Stamina build will be much bether than magicka build for DPS
2) Stamina sorcerer will be much weaker than other stamina build for DPS
3) and my question again, how much will be the difference between a good stamina build (for NB or DK) and the magicka build for sorcerer ? if it's 10 % no problem, that's fair. if it's 30-50 % less damage, all magicka build and specialy sorcerer need a real buff to be competitive.

But the big mistake of Zenimax is the change of critical surge, the problem is not the heal of this spell, but they have change the weapon bonus who was the key point for sorcerer to be competitf (with other class), for both stamina and magicka, for sorcerer heal...

we changement of the bonus of critical surge, sorcerers have lost a lot of think, possibility for healling raid (with healing spring), good dps for stamina sorcerer... and a special spell for magicka sorcerer...

and some big problem are still here.
The cost of spell (much more magicka for some spell than other class).
Passif with not a lot synergy
useless spell.

Sorc is not weaker than most stamina builds. From what I have seen they are in line with templar and slightly above NB.

The only class that has stamina builds that are stronger than others is DK. I really want this fixed, but complaining about it doesn't seem to do anything because the devs seem to be set on DK being the best dps.

you should take a second closer look

manny254

Tankqull wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

florian.billeb16_ESO wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

A tank in our guild who is a sorc has completed vet dsa enough times to have almost all the master weapons with good traits. So I am pretty dam sure a sorc can tank vet dsa.

Your complaint about stam is still makes no sense. It has nothing to with sorcs. Complain about magic vs stam not sorcs.

Once again sorc does the best magic damage. If you think a raid group is not going to take any magic based dps you are crazy. If your group doesn't take any then they are the exception not the rule. You do not balance an entire game around the exception.

No problem, sorc can tank even DSA arena, but sorcerer are just simply not the best tank, it''s just more simple to tank with a DK or a templar the DSA arena, but that is not the main problem.

If I understand well all changement for 1.6. stamina build will be much bether than magicka and you agree about that.
Sorcerer has not good stamina possibility since the changement with power/critical surge (no more big boost of weapon damage), just as other class can do.
so
1) Stamina build will be much bether than magicka build for DPS
2) Stamina sorcerer will be much weaker than other stamina build for DPS
3) and my question again, how much will be the difference between a good stamina build (for NB or DK) and the magicka build for sorcerer ? if it's 10 % no problem, that's fair. if it's 30-50 % less damage, all magicka build and specialy sorcerer need a real buff to be competitive.

But the big mistake of Zenimax is the change of critical surge, the problem is not the heal of this spell, but they have change the weapon bonus who was the key point for sorcerer to be competitf (with other class), for both stamina and magicka, for sorcerer heal...

we changement of the bonus of critical surge, sorcerers have lost a lot of think, possibility for healling raid (with healing spring), good dps for stamina sorcerer... and a special spell for magicka sorcerer...

and some big problem are still here.
The cost of spell (much more magicka for some spell than other class).
Passif with not a lot synergy
useless spell.

Sorc is not weaker than most stamina builds. From what I have seen they are in line with templar and slightly above NB.

The only class that has stamina builds that are stronger than others is DK. I really want this fixed, but complaining about it doesn't seem to do anything because the devs seem to be set on DK being the best dps.

you should take a second closer look

Sorry but I can't render judgement on what I haven't seen. Considering most people post complaints rather than numbers its is not the easiest thing to see.

florian.billeb16_ESO

manny254 wrote: »

Sorc is not weaker than most stamina builds. From what I have seen they are in line with templar and slightly above NB.

The only class that has stamina builds that are stronger than others is DK. I really want this fixed, but complaining about it doesn't seem to do anything because the devs seem to be set on DK being the best dps.

you should take a second closer look [/quote]

Sorry but I can't render judgement on what I haven't seen. Considering most people post complaints rather than numbers its is not the easiest thing to see.[/quote]

Templar have special stamina spell and stamina spell regeneration, DK have special stamina spell and stamina spell regeneration, I don't know very well NB, but I suppose that they have special stamina spell and maybe spell regeneration... but sorcerer stamina has just no real spell regeneration for stamina and not real good stamina spell
So I suppose, (but I admit without test) that stamina sorcerer will be weaker than other class.

Drazek

Why did ZoS make everything a DPS race? Wonder who came up with that bright idea. If some (not all) trials, raids, etc were based on just being able to get through them and defeat the encounter/boss and that was the actual achievement instead of how FAST we can go to get on a leaderboard crap.

Have each class bring something unique (skill wise) and have different fights require different skills from each class so there is a REASON to have each class present in the raid and DPS doesn't matter as much as it does now. I know this is somewhat true for some fights and some classes, but the DPS race is always in effect, the clock is always ticking........

ZoS set their self up with all these dps balancing issues from the start.

pppontus

For y'all doubters, my new and revised build, what used to be completely petless has now turned into a one toggle build for maximum DPS. This is with 70 CP and my DPS isn't even bottlenecking in this fight. It's sustainable, doesn't require melee range. I would recommend it for some more DPS, with thundering presence but as you can see here I don't get any DPS from it so the build works from range too. All you need is potions, alchemy and a cooldown reduction glyph. Just so you can use more of the awesome Sorc skills.

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_pmiTMi_tM

Build: http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/1-6-sorceress-petless-by-pppontus-70-cp/

That should clear it up? Yes, the answer is that sorcs are on par for endgame.

macabrex

11k dps with potion+ulti+food+mepha set+enchant. I can reach 13k with my naked dk without potions. And you say "sorc on par for end game". I really miss LOL button in new forum

Nefrast

Drazek wrote: »

Why did ZoS make everything a DPS race?

It's the cheapest thing to do. Design and implementation are trivial. Imagine the complex testing alone needed for fights where DPS doesn't matter at all. Where the players have to disrupt enemies' actions or be wiped, where multiple players have to coordinate their actions and positioning with one or two second precision to do some cool environmental stuff. I think such cool encounters cost much more and from what I learned it would be wasted money as most people seem to be happy with standing still, clicking their static rotation and call it "fun" as long as they have some tiny chance to get some rare equipment at the end. So I can't blame them for going the easy way.

pppontus

macabrex wrote: »

11k dps with potion+ulti+food+mepha set+enchant. I can reach 13k with my naked dk without potions. And you say "sorc on par for end game". I really miss LOL button in new forum

Yeah, sure you can. Btw I didn't mention I can reach 5,6 billion DPS on my level 42 Templar.

ToRelax

Nefrast wrote: »

Drazek wrote: »

Why did ZoS make everything a DPS race?

It's the cheapest thing to do. Design and implementation are trivial. Imagine the complex testing alone needed for fights where DPS doesn't matter at all. Where the players have to disrupt enemies' actions or be wiped, where multiple players have to coordinate their actions and positioning with one or two second precision to do some cool environmental stuff. I think such cool encounters cost much more and from what I learned it would be wasted money as most people seem to be happy with standing still, clicking their static rotation and call it "fun" as long as they have some tiny chance to get some rare equipment at the end. So I can't blame them for going the easy way.

Sad, but true.

macabrex

pppontus wrote: »

macabrex wrote: »

11k dps with potion+ulti+food+mepha set+enchant. I can reach 13k with my naked dk without potions. And you say "sorc on par for end game". I really miss LOL button in new forum

Yeah, sure you can. Btw I didn't mention I can reach 5,6 billion DPS on my level 42 Templar.

I know you can. You love to post imaginary numbers...

AhPook_Is_Here

Those numbers are about the same as I have been getting on my sorc under similar testing conditions.

pppontus

/ignore

Alright, anyone else have any comments about this now that you've seen proof that it's possible? I LOVE my Sorc in 1.6, my other characters are feeling completely left out atm. I just can't stop playing it because it's so fun and really, really good. ^^

halfbadger

Mana sorcs have the best dot in the game now. The attached picture was taken using 3600 points, template gear, no group buffs and the blood spawn walked out of the aoes for about 4s which ruined the dps ( @Alcast 's Fault ).
I predict at least 50k dps single target on a 40s fight if I had the right gear and buffs. This would increase as the fight gets longer up to a point.
The skill is bugged and you can place more than 1 of them but this picture shows how much damage you could do if you could spam your new dot.

@ZOS You can place multiple instances of this ability if you place one further than 28m away I believe. This is the only ground targeted aoe I have found this to be the case.

Rune_Relic

Question...
Who has the best multiple target DPS ?

halfbadger

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Question...
Who has the best multiple target DPS ?

Define multiple

pppontus

And I remember how flamed I got for saying Liquid Lightning is a really good DOT. ^^

halfbadger

pppontus wrote: »

And I remember how flamed I got for saying Liquid Lightning is a really good DOT. ^^

It is the best dot in the game. I would swap it for unstable flame in an instant

Seraphyel

You guys just have to realize that it's no true DoT. It isn't. It's a ground based AoE that deals damage over time.

If it would be an actual DoT, it would be amazing, but as it is now it's quite crappy, especially for PvP.

halfbadger

Seraphyel wrote: »

deals damage over time

Do you know what dot stands for?

Seraphyel

halfbadger wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

deals damage over time

Do you know what dot stands for?

I know, but it's still a different mechanic. The same goes for Meteor. It's a grounded DoT and that makes it less efficient, especially in PvP.

Your Searing Strike will be superior in most situations.

halfbadger

Seraphyel wrote: »

halfbadger wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

deals damage over time

Do you know what dot stands for?

I know, but it's still a different mechanic. The same goes for Meteor. It's a grounded DoT and that makes it less efficient, especially in PvP.

Your Searing Strike will be superior in most situations.

DK's banner is a ground targeted aoe dot. If the mob(s) move out of it then you used it at the wrong time. It will be the same for liquid lightning

Snit

pppontus wrote: »

For y'all doubters, my new and revised build, what used to be completely petless has now turned into a one toggle build for maximum DPS

If nothing else, it appears clear that Lightning Splash is a legitimate DPS boost on encounters with stationary targets. Thanks.

Seraphyel

halfbadger wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

halfbadger wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

deals damage over time

Do you know what dot stands for?

I know, but it's still a different mechanic. The same goes for Meteor. It's a grounded DoT and that makes it less efficient, especially in PvP.

Your Searing Strike will be superior in most situations.

DK's banner is a ground targeted aoe dot. If the mob(s) move out of it then you used it at the wrong time. It will be the same for liquid lightning

With the difference that Standard lasts longer, deals more damage and has some nice buffs. It's an Ultimate, so it's legitimate, but still.

Lightning splash is not the usual DoT as it is ground targeted.