Endgame PvE Magicka Sorcerer DPS 1.6.3 - Good Job Zenimax! On Par with Other Magicka DPS Classes.

SirEwan

So, many Sorcerers here are complaining about Endgame DPS and a guildmate of mine posted a screenshot of my DPS along with another Guildmate's DPS in another post complaining about Sorc DPS. In fact it was entitled "1.6.3 Sorc Magicka Builds Still Ruined!!!" which I must admit, made me chuckle.

Here's some results from a few tests on the Blood Spawn.
I realise this is a 50 Second fight at max, but it is evident this is sustanable on such fights i.e. The Serpent with my current rotation. (considering my ultimate regenerates every 60-100 seconds, which it does.)

The following results were also obtained with 0 PvP Buffs (Please remove PvP Buffs from PvE BTW Zenimax)

I will update the post as soon as I have additional information.

Test 1
Blood Spawn (45.2s) - 477,336 Total Damage (10556.6 DPS)
No Buffs No Ultimate
(I have achieved higher, just did one test to post here)

Test 2
Blood Spawn (37.9s) - 518,410 Total Damage (13687.0 DPS)
+ Combat Prayer and Aggressive Warhorn (Typical Sanctum Scenario)

Test 3
Blood Spawn (46.0s) - 553,028 Total Damage (12017.4 DPS)
+ Combat Prayer and Aggressive Warhorn (Typical Sanctum Scenario)

Test 4 (Full Fight)
Blood Spawn (49.8s) - 612,952 Total Damage (12312.5 DPS)
+ Combat Prayer and Aggressive Warhorn (Typical Sanctum Scenario)

Test 5 (Full Fight)
Blood Spawn (46.5s) - 615,459 Total Damage (13239.1 DPS)
+ Combat Prayer and Aggressive Warhorn (Typical Sanctum Scenario)

Initial Burst Damage (Max I Pinged is 22k)
Blood Spawn (13.6s) - 218,312 Total Damage (16006.5 DPS)

My statistics. No food buff / Power Surge


My Champion Points.


Two of our Sorcerers.


As I'm sure fellow Raiders understand, I would rather not post my exact build and rotation as we aim to achieve certain goals in trials as soon as 1.6 hits the live server and as far as I can see this will give us a great advantage over other teams initially.

As for my personal opinion on the state of Sorcerers right now, having played one since early Beta, I think Zenimax has done a great job balancing the class. Many more options are now available to us and it appears we are on par with other Magicka based DPS classes / builds.

Alcast wrote: »

Here for all of you infidels. If you cant believe it with that then so be it.

Hint: In most siutations your healer should support you with aggro horn and prayer.

And for people who cant get it, this is from the tanking perspective.
http://youtu.be/B5bTogFe2c8

Vis

Please go back and read all the complaints carefully to realize that most sorcs are talking about issues beyond pve dps. Thank you.

Moderator note: Edited per our rules on baiting.

Seraphyel

SirEwan wrote: »

As I'm sure fellow Raiders understand, I would rather not post my exact build and rotation as we aim to achieve certain goals in trials as soon as 1.6 hits the live server and as far as I can see this will give us a great advantage over other teams initially.

So, you give us some times and some DPS numbers but you can't give us a build or something like that, okay.

Your aim with this topic is quite obvious, but without anything proven or realistic about your topic, it's nothing but hot air.

Alcast

Thank you Ewan for the time to post some decent numbers.

If people dont believe us they will see us on the leaderboards sooner or later

SirEwan

Vis wrote: »

I miss the LOL option.

Edit: Please go back and read all the complaints carefully to realize that most sorcs are talking about issues beyond pve dps. Thank you.

I am aware of the other issues. My post is in regards to only Sorcerer DPS. Nothing more.

Seraphyel

Alcast wrote: »

Thank you Ewan for the time to post some decent numbers.

If people dont believe us they will see us on the leaderboards sooner or later

You know, other can post made up numbers too.

I don't say he is lying or wrong with his post, but there is just no evidence at all for that. It may be true, it may be false, but to throw in some numbers is something everybody can do.

SirEwan

Seraphyel wrote: »

SirEwan wrote: »

As I'm sure fellow Raiders understand, I would rather not post my exact build and rotation as we aim to achieve certain goals in trials as soon as 1.6 hits the live server and as far as I can see this will give us a great advantage over other teams initially.

So, you give us some times and some DPS numbers but you can't give us a build or something like that, okay.

Your aim with this topic is quite obvious, but without anything proven or realistic about your topic, it's nothing but hot air.

May I refer you to:

Alcast wrote: »

Thank you Ewan for the time to post some decent numbers.

If people dont believe us they will see us on the leaderboards sooner or later

Asgari

SirEwan wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

I miss the LOL option.

Edit: Please go back and read all the complaints carefully to realize that most sorcs are talking about issues beyond pve dps. Thank you.

I am aware of the other issues. My post is in regards to only Sorcerer DPS. Nothing more.

Now show me a viable caster build with half decent dps in pvp? It doesn't exist anymore.

Seraphyel

SirEwan wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

SirEwan wrote: »

As I'm sure fellow Raiders understand, I would rather not post my exact build and rotation as we aim to achieve certain goals in trials as soon as 1.6 hits the live server and as far as I can see this will give us a great advantage over other teams initially.

So, you give us some times and some DPS numbers but you can't give us a build or something like that, okay.

Your aim with this topic is quite obvious, but without anything proven or realistic about your topic, it's nothing but hot air.

May I refer you to:

Alcast wrote: »

Thank you Ewan for the time to post some decent numbers.

If people dont believe us they will see us on the leaderboards sooner or later

That's (now) not a proof at all. And I don't even say that from a Sorcerer focused perspective. All of that are made up numbers right now. Again, I don't doubt it, but there is absolutely no evidence in your post.

xherics

xherics wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

My friends have 13k DPS as sorcs. So I dunno what you guys do wrong. (that is approx for 40sec)

It is now one of the stronger classes, so why do you keep moaning about weak sorcs.

Yes, it was exactly this: Blood Spawn (46.5s) - 615,459 Total Damage (13239.1 DPS)

But, we need to mention as well:
- Permanent Combat Prayer
- DPS boost War horn
- used ultimate on the Fight start

So, this 13k will be not sustainable in longer fights than 1 minute and even will be less, when we do not receive Combat prayer.

xherics wrote: »

I forgot to mention, that I used 70 CP only.

And I will not comment the attacking behavior of others, useless.

I posted the DPS, said, how did I do it, just not the gear + skills combo, because as Alcast said, you need to learn/find out it as well. Just an info, I did not use PET!

Before 1.6.3 my max dps for the same time and same boss was 8K-9K with the same gear/skills like now 12k-13k.

I still think, that 2% spell damage is not enough, it needs to be min 4%. I still think, that some nerfs what we got are not correct and should be reverted; or ZOS should just boost the sorcerer class by other changes.

EDIT: I still think, that the cooldown should be removed from Surge and make it heals from max 6 targets.

SirEwan

Seraphyel wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Thank you Ewan for the time to post some decent numbers.

If people dont believe us they will see us on the leaderboards sooner or later

You know, other can post made up numbers too.

I don't say he is lying or wrong with his post, but there is just no evidence at all for that. It may be true, it may be false, but to throw in some numbers is something everybody can do.

Two of our Sorcerers:

Vis

SirEwan wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

I miss the LOL option.

Edit: Please go back and read all the complaints carefully to realize that most sorcs are talking about issues beyond pve dps. Thank you.

I am aware of the other issues. My post is in regards to only Sorcerer DPS. Nothing more.

Please clarify, your post and your subject is in regards to pve dps.

Your analysis does not equivocate healing, survivability, cc, utility, and pvp dps.

All those other aspect (with reflects, absorbs, inc-damage, cc, and non-static targets) are something entirely different. So your subject needs some clarification to recognize the limitations of its application.

Erock25

There are certainly some Sorcs lurking the PTS forums with their heads in the sand.

Thank you for the tests Mr Sir Ewan.

Ancile

You got high dps numbers on pve dumb mobs? So what?

It does not add anything to the discussion of sorc survivability, pvp dps, and broken mechanics. I can print some amazing numbers too if you give me enough non-reactive training dummies.

Asgari

Vis wrote: »

SirEwan wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

I miss the LOL option.

Edit: Please go back and read all the complaints carefully to realize that most sorcs are talking about issues beyond pve dps. Thank you.

I am aware of the other issues. My post is in regards to only Sorcerer DPS. Nothing more.

Please clarify, your post and your subject is in regards to pve dps.

Your analysis does not equivocate healing, survivability, cc, utility, and pvp dps.

All those other aspect (with reflects, absorbs, inc-damage, cc, and non-static targets) are something entirely different. So your subject needs some clarification to recognize the limitations of its application.

I totally agree that the subject title needs to include PvE in it because this is simply not the case in pvp. Sorcs in pvp caster wise have been completely destroyed. There is no way to fight the other 3 classes with the changes to Sorcs now.

xherics

Yes, these tests and the mentioned DPS is for Hardcore End Game Raiding.

This means: proper healers, proper tank and the DPS-rs are not bothered with attacking mobs. So, these tests are pure Single target.

Alcast

Ancile wrote: »

You got high dps numbers on pve dumb mobs? So what?

It does not add anything to the discussion of sorc survivability, pvp dps, and broken mechanics. I can print some amazing numbers too if you give me enough non-reactive training dummies.

Analyzing PvP issues is completly pointless atm due to 3,6k Championpoints. But we will get to that once the patch goes live.

Reykice

SirEwan wrote: »

So, many Sorcerers here are complaining about Endgame DPS and a guildmate of mine posted a screenshot my DPS along with another Guildmate's DPS in another post complaining about Sorc DPS. In fact it was entitled "1.6.3 Sorc Magicka Builds Still Ruined!!!" which I must admit, made me chuckle.

Here's some results from a few tests on the Blood Spawn.
I realise this is a 50 Second fight at max, but it is evident this is sustanable on such fights i.e. The Serpent with my current rotation. (considering my ultimate regenerates every 60-100 seconds, which it does, and constant Combat Prayer from healers of course)

The following results were also obtained with 0 PvP Buffs (Please remove PvP Buffs from PvE BTW Zenimax)

I will update the post as soon as I have additional information.

Test 1
Blood Spawn (45.2s) - 477,336 Total Damage (10556.6 DPS)
No Buffs No Ultimate
(I have achieved higher, just did one test to post here)

Test 2
Blood Spawn (37.9s) - 518,410 Total Damage (13687.0 DPS)
+ Combat Prayer and Aggressive Warhorn (Typical Sanctum Scenario)

Test 3
Blood Spawn (46.0s) - 553,028 Total Damage (12017.4 DPS)
+ Combat Prayer and Aggressive Warhorn (Typical Sanctum Scenario)

Test 4 (Full Fight)
Blood Spawn (49.8s) - 612,952 Total Damage (12312.5 DPS)
+ Combat Prayer and Aggressive Warhorn (Typical Sanctum Scenario)

Test 5 (Full Fight)
Blood Spawn (46.5s) - 615,459 Total Damage (13239.1 DPS)
+ Combat Prayer and Aggressive Warhorn (Typical Sanctum Scenario)

Initial Burst Damage (Max I Pinged is 22k)
Blood Spawn (13.6s) - 218,312 Total Damage (16006.5 DPS)

My statistics.


My Champion Points.


As I'm sure fellow Raiders understand, I would rather not post my exact build and rotation as we aim to achieve certain goals in trials as soon as 1.6 hits the live server and as far as I can see this will give us a great advantage over other teams initially.

As for my personal opinion on the state of Sorcerers right now, having played one since early Beta, I think Zenimax has done a great job balancing the class. Many more options are now available to us and it appears we are on par with other Magicka based DPS classes / builds.

No screen shot of the dps meter and proof it was done with a Sorcerer... at this rate i can also say i`m doing 90k constant dps but i won`t post anything because reasons.

Cool story tho...

Also, even if truth, you do know other have posted 15k dps screen shots right? So even at 10k-12k you are 20% to 50% short of a DK.

I think its perfectly fine to complain when you are doing 20% to 50% less dps...

Alcast

Reykice wrote: »

SirEwan wrote: »

So, many Sorcerers here are complaining about Endgame DPS and a guildmate of mine posted a screenshot my DPS along with another Guildmate's DPS in another post complaining about Sorc DPS. In fact it was entitled "1.6.3 Sorc Magicka Builds Still Ruined!!!" which I must admit, made me chuckle.

Here's some results from a few tests on the Blood Spawn.
I realise this is a 50 Second fight at max, but it is evident this is sustanable on such fights i.e. The Serpent with my current rotation. (considering my ultimate regenerates every 60-100 seconds, which it does, and constant Combat Prayer from healers of course)

The following results were also obtained with 0 PvP Buffs (Please remove PvP Buffs from PvE BTW Zenimax)

I will update the post as soon as I have additional information.

Test 1
Blood Spawn (45.2s) - 477,336 Total Damage (10556.6 DPS)
No Buffs No Ultimate
(I have achieved higher, just did one test to post here)

Test 2
Blood Spawn (37.9s) - 518,410 Total Damage (13687.0 DPS)
+ Combat Prayer and Aggressive Warhorn (Typical Sanctum Scenario)

Test 3
Blood Spawn (46.0s) - 553,028 Total Damage (12017.4 DPS)
+ Combat Prayer and Aggressive Warhorn (Typical Sanctum Scenario)

Test 4 (Full Fight)
Blood Spawn (49.8s) - 612,952 Total Damage (12312.5 DPS)
+ Combat Prayer and Aggressive Warhorn (Typical Sanctum Scenario)

Test 5 (Full Fight)
Blood Spawn (46.5s) - 615,459 Total Damage (13239.1 DPS)
+ Combat Prayer and Aggressive Warhorn (Typical Sanctum Scenario)

Initial Burst Damage (Max I Pinged is 22k)
Blood Spawn (13.6s) - 218,312 Total Damage (16006.5 DPS)

My statistics.


My Champion Points.


As I'm sure fellow Raiders understand, I would rather not post my exact build and rotation as we aim to achieve certain goals in trials as soon as 1.6 hits the live server and as far as I can see this will give us a great advantage over other teams initially.

As for my personal opinion on the state of Sorcerers right now, having played one since early Beta, I think Zenimax has done a great job balancing the class. Many more options are now available to us and it appears we are on par with other Magicka based DPS classes / builds.

No screen shot of the dps meter and proof it was done with a Sorcerer... at this rate i can also say i`m doing 90k constant dps but i won`t post anything because reasons.

Cool story tho...

Also, even if truth, you do know other have posted 15k dps screen shots right? So even at 10k-12k you are 20% to 50% short of a DK.

I think its perfectly fine to complain when you are doing 20% to 50% less dps...

well that 15k of a DK, stamina maybe, we talking magicka.

SanderBuraas

Sorcerers survivability in solo pve situations with many mobs is not on par with the other classes. This is the main issue that people have with the class, and of course how most of the skills are not viable and unused by all Sorcerers.

Vis

Smepic wrote: »

Sorcerers survivability in solo pve situations with many mobs is not on par with the other classes. This is the main issue that people have with the class, and of course how most of the skills are not viable and unused by all Sorcerers.

Exactly. So I can be on par with other classes as long as I have a personal tank and pocket healer. WTB DK and Templar questing buddies!

Tankqull

SirEwan wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Thank you Ewan for the time to post some decent numbers.

If people dont believe us they will see us on the leaderboards sooner or later

You know, other can post made up numbers too.

I don't say he is lying or wrong with his post, but there is just no evidence at all for that. It may be true, it may be false, but to throw in some numbers is something everybody can do.

Two of our Sorcerers:

nice 3 sec extention in fight duration result in a 900dps drop - thats awesome ... now extend your fight to 3mins and you are actually doing negative DPS

SirEwan

Tankqull wrote: »

SirEwan wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Thank you Ewan for the time to post some decent numbers.

If people dont believe us they will see us on the leaderboards sooner or later

You know, other can post made up numbers too.

I don't say he is lying or wrong with his post, but there is just no evidence at all for that. It may be true, it may be false, but to throw in some numbers is something everybody can do.

Two of our Sorcerers:

nice 3 sec extention in fight duration result in a 900dps drop - thats awesome ... now extend your fight to 3mins and you are actually doing negative DPS

These are two differnt characters mate. Your point is invalid.

DDuke

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

SirEwan wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

I miss the LOL option.

Edit: Please go back and read all the complaints carefully to realize that most sorcs are talking about issues beyond pve dps. Thank you.

I am aware of the other issues. My post is in regards to only Sorcerer DPS. Nothing more.

Please clarify, your post and your subject is in regards to pve dps.

Your analysis does not equivocate healing, survivability, cc, utility, and pvp dps.

All those other aspect (with reflects, absorbs, inc-damage, cc, and non-static targets) are something entirely different. So your subject needs some clarification to recognize the limitations of its application.

I totally agree that the subject title needs to include PvE in it because this is simply not the case in pvp. Sorcs in pvp caster wise have been completely destroyed. There is no way to fight the other 3 classes with the changes to Sorcs now.

I hope you are not talking about the Sorcerer class, which has the highest burst damage & mobility available for magicka builds, as well as 16k+ (after nerf) dmg shield & perfect anti-melee tool (mines), as well as unblockable CC (Weakening Prison).

You can easily crit 18k+ with Entropy+CF proc, and follow it up with something like Meteor, while having the mobility of Streak/BoL & protection from Hardened Ward.

I don't see what the problem is. Perhaps there's some slight exaggeration & hyperboles going on here?

Faulgor

SirEwan wrote: »

As I'm sure fellow Raiders understand, I would rather not post my exact build and rotation as we aim to achieve certain goals in trials as soon as 1.6 hits the live server and as far as I can see this will give us a great advantage over other teams initially.

No, actually I don't understand. Are you seriously worried people will steal your Sorcerer dps build that is easily outmatched by other dps classes and builds? Even more, a build that relies on ultimates and 3rd party buffs?

Tankqull

SirEwan wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

SirEwan wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Thank you Ewan for the time to post some decent numbers.

If people dont believe us they will see us on the leaderboards sooner or later

You know, other can post made up numbers too.

I don't say he is lying or wrong with his post, but there is just no evidence at all for that. It may be true, it may be false, but to throw in some numbers is something everybody can do.

Two of our Sorcerers:

nice 3 sec extention in fight duration result in a 900dps drop - thats awesome ... now extend your fight to 3mins and you are actually doing negative DPS

These are two differnt characters mate. Your point is invalid.

its not a point just an observation indicating that two players wich i guess will be above 95% of the playerbase in terms of rotation upkeep, have generated in a 3sec window a disparity of 900 dps (wich is a nearly 10% drop) wich clearly indicates that you are still within the burstphase at ~48 sec otherwise the dps discrepancy inbetween two really skilled players won´t be that much. wich on the other hand enables guessing of even further drops in dps the longer a fight lasts (also having in mind the spellcost reduction loss of expert mage)

SirEwan

Faulgor wrote: »

SirEwan wrote: »

As I'm sure fellow Raiders understand, I would rather not post my exact build and rotation as we aim to achieve certain goals in trials as soon as 1.6 hits the live server and as far as I can see this will give us a great advantage over other teams initially.

No, actually I don't understand. Are you seriously worried people will steal your Sorcerer dps build that is easily outmatched by other dps classes and builds? Even more, a build that relies on ultimates and 3rd party buffs?

I'm sorry, I didn't realise you could complete Sanctum in the times I have without ultimates and third party buffs. This is, as I have specified, a typical raid scenario DPS result. Check the first one without ultimate and without buffs - 10.5-11.5k

danovic

Think the main complaint is from pvp sorc everything in there line can eather be dodged, blocked, broken out of or just avoided. Crystal shards is to slow (3 seconds from start of cast until it hits target at range) and its the only spammable dd spell they have. Have had melee charge in kill the target before the crystal spell even went off. Willing to bet you got these number using mostly guild and weapons abilities not mage skill line. The improvements made to the skill line only work against pve mobs who are to dumb to avoid them. Daedric curse is a joke 6/3.5 seconds of nothing then maybe it explodes (it should be a Dot) if it hasn't been cleansed. Mages fury only good if you get them the last 20 percent of health which you would be long dead before seeing in pvp. Pets fill half your bars seeing as they have to be used on 2 bars leaving very few options with them. They could fix a lot just by making cast pets independent of bar changes so wouldn't fill 2 bars. I play all four classes and just can't stand any of the play with a sorc it just seems wrong to me. Guess I was Expecting the old D&D standard lightning chain, magic missiles and fireball or some form of those which were all available in some form or another of elder scrolls Games in the past.

Exstazik

120 CP and ~11k dps

Alcast

Here for all of you infidels. If you cant believe it with that then so be it.

Hint: In most siutations your healer should support you with aggro horn and prayer.

Tanking perspective
http://youtu.be/B5bTogFe2c8

Asgari

DDuke wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

SirEwan wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

I miss the LOL option.

Edit: Please go back and read all the complaints carefully to realize that most sorcs are talking about issues beyond pve dps. Thank you.

I am aware of the other issues. My post is in regards to only Sorcerer DPS. Nothing more.

Please clarify, your post and your subject is in regards to pve dps.

Your analysis does not equivocate healing, survivability, cc, utility, and pvp dps.

All those other aspect (with reflects, absorbs, inc-damage, cc, and non-static targets) are something entirely different. So your subject needs some clarification to recognize the limitations of its application.

I totally agree that the subject title needs to include PvE in it because this is simply not the case in pvp. Sorcs in pvp caster wise have been completely destroyed. There is no way to fight the other 3 classes with the changes to Sorcs now.

I hope you are not talking about the Sorcerer class, which has the highest burst damage & mobility available for magicka builds, as well as 16k+ (after nerf) dmg shield & perfect anti-melee tool (mines), as well as unblockable CC (Weakening Prison).

You can easily crit 18k+ with Entropy+CF proc, and follow it up with something like Meteor, while having the mobility of Streak/BoL & protection from Hardened Ward.

I don't see what the problem is. Perhaps there's some slight exaggeration & hyperboles going on here?

I don't want to hijack this thread as it now states PvE endgame and no longer Sorcs in general. The dps you described is a 1 time lucky burst. That is not the norm for pvp and no where even close to sustainable. Have a look at all of the threads available. Sorcs have increased costs across the board now and less dps.

Like I said check the many Sorc threads and you will see what I am talking about with pvp for Sorcs.