Endgame PvE Magicka Sorcerer DPS 1.6.3 - Good Job Zenimax! On Par with Other Magicka DPS Classes.

Vis

DDuke wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

SirEwan wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

I miss the LOL option.

Edit: Please go back and read all the complaints carefully to realize that most sorcs are talking about issues beyond pve dps. Thank you.

I am aware of the other issues. My post is in regards to only Sorcerer DPS. Nothing more.

Please clarify, your post and your subject is in regards to pve dps.

Your analysis does not equivocate healing, survivability, cc, utility, and pvp dps.

All those other aspect (with reflects, absorbs, inc-damage, cc, and non-static targets) are something entirely different. So your subject needs some clarification to recognize the limitations of its application.

I totally agree that the subject title needs to include PvE in it because this is simply not the case in pvp. Sorcs in pvp caster wise have been completely destroyed. There is no way to fight the other 3 classes with the changes to Sorcs now.

I hope you are not talking about the Sorcerer class, which has the highest burst damage & mobility available for magicka builds, as well as 16k+ (after nerf) dmg shield & perfect anti-melee tool (mines), as well as unblockable CC (Weakening Prison).

You can easily crit 18k+ with Entropy+CF proc, and follow it up with something like Meteor, while having the mobility of Streak/BoL & protection from Hardened Ward.

I don't see what the problem is. Perhaps there's some slight exaggeration & hyperboles going on here?

Burst means nothing if it all can be reflected/absorbed by the most widely used skills in the game. Heck, I would give every NB a one-shot nuke if they gave sorcs a cheap skill to be able to always reflect it.

Edited per our rules on rude comments.

So you'd like to see more unreflectable skills for sorcs? Or would you like to play a DK?

Because the former I can agree with, and I hope Spellcrafting brings some more options there.

For the time being, you'll have to do with what there is available for magicka build sorcs (Mines, Weakening Prison, Encase, Wall of Elements, Impulse, Lightning Splash).

Actually, I already have a v14 dk. But I feel bad about leaving my sorc over one skill.

OtarTheMad

Wahee wrote: »

OP, I feel really bad for you. You come in here with a nice coherent post with screenshots and even a video and everyone is so worked up in a froth about Sorcs atm that they blame you for faking it as part of some vast anti-sorc conspiracy.

I think the OP just demonstrated a fairly viable dps rotation for PvE sorcs, and props for the coherent and contructive post. It might not be top dps in the game, and maybe it doesn't suit your playstyle, but it works. Everyone else seems to just want to scream about how the sky is falling while the OP goes and figures out how to make it work.

Bravo sir. I wish players of all classes would take notice and realize that testing things yourself bears more fruit than forum hysterics.

While I agree with you I also think that outside of guild members not a lot of Sorcs will get invites to dungeons, trials etc. for the very thing you stated "Might not be the top dps" Fact is we are probably the lowest and while that is doable is you solo stuff, getting invited to dungeons, etc. when the group leader can just search for a NB, DK or Templar with higher DPS will get annoying fast. Frankly... it's hard for any class to get invites and etc. if they are lowest dps... simple as that.

I don't do endgame PvE that much so my shelving/disappointment with the Sorc class is mainly PvP because I feel a little more on par with the other players on one of my other characters.

danovic

Wahee wrote: »

OP, I feel really bad for you. You come in here with a nice coherent post with screenshots and even a video and everyone is so worked up in a froth about Sorcs atm that they blame you for faking it as part of some vast anti-sorc conspiracy.

I think the OP just demonstrated a fairly viable dps rotation for PvE sorcs, and props for the coherent and contructive post. It might not be top dps in the game, and maybe it doesn't suit your playstyle, but it works. Everyone else seems to just want to scream about how the sky is falling while the OP goes and figures out how to make it work.

Bravo sir. I wish players of all classes would take notice and realize that testing things yourself bears more fruit than forum hysterics.

You just don't get it there are a lot of good builds for sorcs but this is pts we are testing sorc skill alone not guild or world or weapon we know those work. Lets see you use a sorc using only there abilities and thats the problem. I started as a templar the only way it could be played at first was with cloth and a destruction staff. went all the way up using no templar skills at all. Does that mean the templar skill was ok? Heck no and its the same for sorc now if you have to fill your bar with everything except sorc abilities.

xMovingTarget

Seraphyel wrote: »

SirEwan wrote: »

As I'm sure fellow Raiders understand, I would rather not post my exact build and rotation as we aim to achieve certain goals in trials as soon as 1.6 hits the live server and as far as I can see this will give us a great advantage over other teams initially.

So, you give us some times and some DPS numbers but you can't give us a build or something like that, okay.

Your aim with this topic is quite obvious, but without anything proven or realistic about your topic, it's nothing but hot air.

I was with em on these tests. My main is DK. The sorcs havnt been that much behind me.

Erock25

Gyudan wrote: »

I boosted my character a bit and got to this:

- solo (no buffs from allies)
- basic 70 CPs used (24/23/23)
- no potions used

The tooltip damage of a procced (35%) Crystal Fragments is 11509.


It could go a bit higher, I'm not using the most optimal gear and some skills aren't fully morphed.

edit: I had forgotten to use food x)

What is this? An emperor or something?

DDuke

Gyudan wrote: »

I boosted my character a bit and got to this:

- solo (no buffs from allies)
- basic 70 CPs used (24/23/23)
- no potions used

The tooltip damage of a procced (35%) Crystal Fragments is 11509.


It could go a bit higher, I'm not using the most optimal gear and some skills aren't fully morphed.

edit: I had forgotten to use food x)

Did you try that with Inner Light, Bound Aegis & one or two Mages Guild abilities slotted? That magicka starts compounding alarmingly quick (and along with that dmg), especially with that high base...

Edit: add Necropotence & Destruction Mastery sets for some extra oompfh.
Goal: 100K magicka

ToRelax

Gyudan wrote: »

I boosted my character a bit and got to this:

- solo (no buffs from allies)
- basic 70 CPs used (24/23/23)
- no potions used

The tooltip damage of a procced (35%) Crystal Fragments is 11509.


It could go a bit higher, I'm not using the most optimal gear and some skills aren't fully morphed.

edit: I had forgotten to use food x)

How many CP ?

Gyudan

DDuke wrote: »

Did you try that with Inner Light, Bound Aegis & one or two Mages Guild abilities slotted? That magicka starts compounding alarmingly quick (and along with that dmg), especially with that high base...

Edit: add Necropotence & Destruction Mastery sets for some extra oompfh.
Goal: 100K magicka

Yep, 3 toggles. It's not possible to use both Necropotence and Destruction mastery though.
The biggest difference with OP's stats imo is the survability. Just check armor/spell res and health.
Magicka could be boosted even further if I had used the same amount of CPs instead of the basic 70, along with fully leveled morphs.

Xsorus

Every post I see from Sorcs has been so far "We suck in PvE, buff us!".

Someone posts a PVE build with good ranged dps mind you, and its now "We suck in PvP, buff us!"

Erock25

Gyudan wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Did you try that with Inner Light, Bound Aegis & one or two Mages Guild abilities slotted? That magicka starts compounding alarmingly quick (and along with that dmg), especially with that high base...

Edit: add Necropotence & Destruction Mastery sets for some extra oompfh.
Goal: 100K magicka

Yep, 3 toggles. It's not possible to use both Necropotence and Destruction mastery though.
The biggest difference with OP's stats imo is the survability. Just check armor/spell res and health.
Magicka could be boosted even further if I had used the same amount of CPs instead of the basic 70, along with fully leveled morphs.

Wait... what? You are emperor in these stats or something. You can't reach that level of magicka/hp/stam with that spell dmg/spell resist/armor. My PTS toon with 3600CP doesn't reach even near those levels.

indigoblades

I dont understand why OP linked a youtube video of a Sword & Board Templar killing blood spwan in thread which states Sorc DPS is fine, yet has nothing to substantiate that DPS. Is there a link i am missing.

ToRelax

Erock25 wrote: »

Gyudan wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Did you try that with Inner Light, Bound Aegis & one or two Mages Guild abilities slotted? That magicka starts compounding alarmingly quick (and along with that dmg), especially with that high base...

Edit: add Necropotence & Destruction Mastery sets for some extra oompfh.
Goal: 100K magicka

Yep, 3 toggles. It's not possible to use both Necropotence and Destruction mastery though.
The biggest difference with OP's stats imo is the survability. Just check armor/spell res and health.
Magicka could be boosted even further if I had used the same amount of CPs instead of the basic 70, along with fully leveled morphs.

Wait... what? You are emperor in these stats or something. You can't reach that level of magicka/hp/stam with that spell dmg/spell resist/armor. My PTS toon with 3600CP doesn't reach even near those levels.

For my Sorc with 3,6k CP that's no problem really, but as he is stating it's only the basic 70 I don't see how getting those stats should be possible yet.

Erock25

ToRelax wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Gyudan wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Did you try that with Inner Light, Bound Aegis & one or two Mages Guild abilities slotted? That magicka starts compounding alarmingly quick (and along with that dmg), especially with that high base...

Edit: add Necropotence & Destruction Mastery sets for some extra oompfh.
Goal: 100K magicka

Yep, 3 toggles. It's not possible to use both Necropotence and Destruction mastery though.
The biggest difference with OP's stats imo is the survability. Just check armor/spell res and health.
Magicka could be boosted even further if I had used the same amount of CPs instead of the basic 70, along with fully leveled morphs.

Wait... what? You are emperor in these stats or something. You can't reach that level of magicka/hp/stam with that spell dmg/spell resist/armor. My PTS toon with 3600CP doesn't reach even near those levels.

For my Sorc with 3,6k CP that's no problem really, but as he is stating it's only the basic 70 I don't see how getting those stats should be possible yet.

I just made my 3600CP Altmer Sorc and topped out at 38k M / 20k H / 14k S but with much less spell crit, armor, spell resist, and spell dmg.

Ezareth

DDuke wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

SirEwan wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

I miss the LOL option.

Edit: Please go back and read all the complaints carefully to realize that most sorcs are talking about issues beyond pve dps. Thank you.

I am aware of the other issues. My post is in regards to only Sorcerer DPS. Nothing more.

Please clarify, your post and your subject is in regards to pve dps.

Your analysis does not equivocate healing, survivability, cc, utility, and pvp dps.

All those other aspect (with reflects, absorbs, inc-damage, cc, and non-static targets) are something entirely different. So your subject needs some clarification to recognize the limitations of its application.

I totally agree that the subject title needs to include PvE in it because this is simply not the case in pvp. Sorcs in pvp caster wise have been completely destroyed. There is no way to fight the other 3 classes with the changes to Sorcs now.

I hope you are not talking about the Sorcerer class, which has the highest burst damage & mobility available for magicka builds, as well as 16k+ (after nerf) dmg shield & perfect anti-melee tool (mines), as well as unblockable CC (Weakening Prison).

You can easily crit 18k+ with Entropy+CF proc, and follow it up with something like Meteor, while having the mobility of Streak/BoL & protection from Hardened Ward.

I don't see what the problem is. Perhaps there's some slight exaggeration & hyperboles going on here?

Posts like these are why we need the "Lol" button.

Fresh Template character in Full Legendary gear with Legendary enchants and VR10 Epic food in Cyrodiil, all points put into Magicka and 70 total champion points spent in magicka cost reduction, damage shield increases and magic damage increases. This is as good or better than what most people are going to have going live into patch.

Altmer Sorc
17755 Health
29219 Magicka,
11542 Stamina

Conjured ward in Cyrodiil is 10,592(including 33% bonus and champion point bonus) not 16K+
Crystal Fragments read 6776 damage. Entropy + CF proc brings it to something just over 10K and that crits for 15K not 18K and not "Easily" (You'll need to be subtracting spell resistance and crit resistance from that number as well...not to mention if you hit a shield you're only doing 10K instead of 15K.

If anyone is exaggerating or using hyperbole it is you.

BTW I went from being able to bolt escape 15 times using this exact template character in 1.6.2 to 9 times now.

I don't think ZoS realizes how broken Sorcs are in PvP right now.

indigoblades

Erock25 wrote: »

Gyudan wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Did you try that with Inner Light, Bound Aegis & one or two Mages Guild abilities slotted? That magicka starts compounding alarmingly quick (and along with that dmg), especially with that high base...

Edit: add Necropotence & Destruction Mastery sets for some extra oompfh.
Goal: 100K magicka

Yep, 3 toggles. It's not possible to use both Necropotence and Destruction mastery though.
The biggest difference with OP's stats imo is the survability. Just check armor/spell res and health.
Magicka could be boosted even further if I had used the same amount of CPs instead of the basic 70, along with fully leveled morphs.

My Nord sorc whom has no magicka racial s can hit the mid 30's with 3 mage light ability's & mage light on ... so if u have 4 mage light ability's, meteor and bound aegis Maybe that's possible with a high elf.

ginoboehm

danovic wrote: »

Wahee wrote: »

OP, I feel really bad for you. You come in here with a nice coherent post with screenshots and even a video and everyone is so worked up in a froth about Sorcs atm that they blame you for faking it as part of some vast anti-sorc conspiracy.

I think the OP just demonstrated a fairly viable dps rotation for PvE sorcs, and props for the coherent and contructive post. It might not be top dps in the game, and maybe it doesn't suit your playstyle, but it works. Everyone else seems to just want to scream about how the sky is falling while the OP goes and figures out how to make it work.

Bravo sir. I wish players of all classes would take notice and realize that testing things yourself bears more fruit than forum hysterics.

You just don't get it there are a lot of good builds for sorcs but this is pts we are testing sorc skill alone not guild or world or weapon we know those work. Lets see you use a sorc using only there abilities and thats the problem. I started as a templar the only way it could be played at first was with cloth and a destruction staff. went all the way up using no templar skills at all. Does that mean the templar skill was ok? Heck no and its the same for sorc now if you have to fill your bar with everything except sorc abilities.

I really really hate how everybody finds new reasons to complaint about sorcerer DPS.
1. Sorceres have the best RANGED DPS. -> people post 50 threads about how bad the DPS is and how it is only good with pets
2. Good players post builds without pets that still do good DPS (still better then any other class ranged) -> yeah but you are lying and you don't use enough class skills.
What the hell people the fotm build is not a have a wish build if your class is doing good DPS and has even one unique thing going for them (Best freaking ranged DPS) then we are in a good position. The reason why guilds like hodor were running with 8dks was that they used the highest DPS build in the game which will still be melee ranged build in 1.6 but there are only so many guilds out there who have that kind of skill and coordination to have everyone standing on top of a boss. If you have a guild who doesn't invite you or you can't join because you are a sorcerer it is because you people scream all day how bad this class is while guilds like our guild has no problem with inviting sorcs and still puts out decent sanctum and DSA times. My problem with sorcs at the moment is only that we have no great ultimate (damage reduction +outgoing damage) if you think sorceres are bad PvP wise just go on pts ask for a small little dueling guild I am in (arena) and ask for a duel with a good sorc (for example legendary mage) . but no you people will open 5000 more threads and the real complaints (there are real complaints with the sorcerer class) will go under in a floor of useless whining

Kragorn

Seraphyel wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Thank you Ewan for the time to post some decent numbers.

If people dont believe us they will see us on the leaderboards sooner or later

You know, other can post made up numbers too.

I don't say he is lying or wrong with his post, but there is just no evidence at all for that. It may be true, it may be false, but to throw in some numbers is something everybody can do.

I don't raid, in ESO or anywhere else these days so I have no personal axe to grind, however if you look at the guilds the guy is in there's zero reason to come up with the sort of innuendo you did.

What motivation would he have?

/shakeshead

Clearly he's not going to post his build/etc. right now, given that 'world first' seems to mean something to guilds such as his (they don't of course but that's another topic) but suggesting (even couched in non-blunt terms) he's "made up" the numbers says nothing about him .. it may though say someone else ...

ToRelax

@ginoboehm

You know Legendary Mage isn't playing atm, right? Besides that, if ZOS would balance the class around him, we'd have a serious problem.

SirEwan

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Every post I see from Sorcs has been so far "We suck in PvE, buff us!".

Someone posts a PVE build with good ranged dps mind you, and its now "We suck in PvP, buff us!"

This man, you said it.

Reykice

ToRelax wrote: »

Gyudan wrote: »

I boosted my character a bit and got to this:

- solo (no buffs from allies)
- basic 70 CPs used (24/23/23)
- no potions used

The tooltip damage of a procced (35%) Crystal Fragments is 11509.


It could go a bit higher, I'm not using the most optimal gear and some skills aren't fully morphed.

edit: I had forgotten to use food x)

How many CP ?

That is misleading... as you can see his cast time is instant... so he most likely has both the might of the guild buff and the extra 20% damage when CS is instant(procs) leading to a 40% damage increase...

He should be banned/warned for trying to skew the numbers in this way in an oficial feedback thread but then again i`m not a moderator so i may be wrong.

While the Crystal Shard numbers look big the actual damage per second is less that if you use Shock + light attacks... so Crystal Shard will be used only when it procs and is instant, not all the time.

They need to fix Surge... it sucks when you also use other spells/dots and they crit healing you for 100 while your big hit does not because the healing now has a cooldown. This results in fights where you go from finishing with close to full HP to being dead when fighting the same NPC`s... the heal was already inconsistent due to the fact that you had to crit so it wasn`t exactly on demand, but was balanced by being powerful. Now its just bad as you sometimes get healed for close to nothing so your survivability spikes so much every healer will hate you and makes it for a frustrating experience.

Remove the cooldown and cap it to 3 to 6 heals per 0.25 seconds, that way if a dot crits you still get other bigger heals but if you AOE 10 NPC`s you will only get healed from 3 up to 6... a reasonable AOE cap.

Also the cost increase for lightning spells broke the melee sorcerer, even with 3600 CP you can`t sustain the magicka to use surge and the lightning form. Good job... now try again please!

McDoogs

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

SirEwan wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

I miss the LOL option.

Edit: Please go back and read all the complaints carefully to realize that most sorcs are talking about issues beyond pve dps. Thank you.

I am aware of the other issues. My post is in regards to only Sorcerer DPS. Nothing more.

Please clarify, your post and your subject is in regards to pve dps.

Your analysis does not equivocate healing, survivability, cc, utility, and pvp dps.

All those other aspect (with reflects, absorbs, inc-damage, cc, and non-static targets) are something entirely different. So your subject needs some clarification to recognize the limitations of its application.

I totally agree that the subject title needs to include PvE in it because this is simply not the case in pvp. Sorcs in pvp caster wise have been completely destroyed. There is no way to fight the other 3 classes with the changes to Sorcs now.

I hope you are not talking about the Sorcerer class, which has the highest burst damage & mobility available for magicka builds, as well as 16k+ (after nerf) dmg shield & perfect anti-melee tool (mines), as well as unblockable CC (Weakening Prison).

You can easily crit 18k+ with Entropy+CF proc, and follow it up with something like Meteor, while having the mobility of Streak/BoL & protection from Hardened Ward.

I don't see what the problem is. Perhaps there's some slight exaggeration & hyperboles going on here?

I don't want to hijack this thread as it now states PvE endgame and no longer Sorcs in general. The dps you described is a 1 time lucky burst. That is not the norm for pvp and no where even close to sustainable. Have a look at all of the threads available. Sorcs have increased costs across the board now and less dps.

Like I said check the many Sorc threads and you will see what I am talking about with pvp for Sorcs.

Since when is pvp about sustained dps?

ToRelax

Reykice wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Gyudan wrote: »

I boosted my character a bit and got to this:

- solo (no buffs from allies)
- basic 70 CPs used (24/23/23)
- no potions used

The tooltip damage of a procced (35%) Crystal Fragments is 11509.


It could go a bit higher, I'm not using the most optimal gear and some skills aren't fully morphed.

edit: I had forgotten to use food x)

How many CP ?

That is misleading... as you can see his cast time is instant... so he most likely has both the might of the guild buff and the extra 20% damage when CS is instant(procs) leading to a 40% damage increase...

He should be banned/warned for trying to skew the numbers in this way in an oficial feedback thread but then again i`m not a moderator so i may be wrong.

While the Crystal Shard numbers look big the actual damage per second is less that if you use Shock + light attacks... so Crystal Shard will be used only when it procs and is instant, not all the time.

[...]

Wrong, I can get higher tooltip numbers that way with same magicka and less spell damage. The tooltip is not effected by empower, but it may be effected by the spell damage buff. However, it does not have to be, 2k spell damage is not hard to achieve without the buff if you focus on it.

DDuke

ToRelax wrote: »

@ginoboehm

You know Legendary Mage isn't playing atm, right? Besides that, if ZOS would balance the class around him, we'd have a serious problem.

It's not just Mage, to be honest.

If you take a look at it, you'll notice that well over 50% of the people creating PvP videos play Sorcerers, other 25% or so DKs & the rest are spread between Templar & NB.

Coincidence? Maybe, but I just thought I should point this out

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

SirEwan wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

I miss the LOL option.

Edit: Please go back and read all the complaints carefully to realize that most sorcs are talking about issues beyond pve dps. Thank you.

I am aware of the other issues. My post is in regards to only Sorcerer DPS. Nothing more.

Please clarify, your post and your subject is in regards to pve dps.

Your analysis does not equivocate healing, survivability, cc, utility, and pvp dps.

All those other aspect (with reflects, absorbs, inc-damage, cc, and non-static targets) are something entirely different. So your subject needs some clarification to recognize the limitations of its application.

I totally agree that the subject title needs to include PvE in it because this is simply not the case in pvp. Sorcs in pvp caster wise have been completely destroyed. There is no way to fight the other 3 classes with the changes to Sorcs now.

I hope you are not talking about the Sorcerer class, which has the highest burst damage & mobility available for magicka builds, as well as 16k+ (after nerf) dmg shield & perfect anti-melee tool (mines), as well as unblockable CC (Weakening Prison).

You can easily crit 18k+ with Entropy+CF proc, and follow it up with something like Meteor, while having the mobility of Streak/BoL & protection from Hardened Ward.

I don't see what the problem is. Perhaps there's some slight exaggeration & hyperboles going on here?

Posts like these are why we need the "Lol" button.

Fresh Template character in Full Legendary gear with Legendary enchants and VR10 Epic food in Cyrodiil, all points put into Magicka and 70 total champion points spent in magicka cost reduction, damage shield increases and magic damage increases. This is as good or better than what most people are going to have going live into patch.

Altmer Sorc
17755 Health
29219 Magicka,
11542 Stamina

Conjured ward in Cyrodiil is 10,592(including 33% bonus and champion point bonus) not 16K+
Crystal Fragments read 6776 damage. Entropy + CF proc brings it to something just over 10K and that crits for 15K not 18K and not "Easily" (You'll need to be subtracting spell resistance and crit resistance from that number as well...not to mention if you hit a shield you're only doing 10K instead of 15K.

If anyone is exaggerating or using hyperbole it is you.

BTW I went from being able to bolt escape 15 times using this exact template character in 1.6.2 to 9 times now.

I don't think ZoS realizes how broken Sorcs are in PvP right now.

I'll try to put this eloquently enough to not hurt any feelings or break forum rules: just because you haven't found the optimal build to attain good DPS & survivability as a Sorcerer, doesn't mean that the class is broken.

Take a look at the post @Gyudan posted above: 41218 magicka with 70CP, that's over twice what you have on your template, and enough to conjure up 16k+ dmg shields & 11509 CF procs.
Cast Entropy before that proc & you've got +20% more damage on it, 40% if the screenshot above was taken without Major Sorcery active.

In fact, on PTS Crystal Frags deal more damage than Snipe, and yet it's not good enough for some Sorcerers. Go figure...

Gyudan

Reykice wrote: »

That is misleading... as you can see his cast time is instant... so he most likely has both the might of the guild buff and the extra 20% damage when CS is instant(procs) leading to a 40% damage increase...

Actually I forgot about the Might of the Guild passive, which wasn't used for the first test. Thanks for reminding me @Reykice !
I did say that Crystal Fragments was "procced" though, granting the 20% damage bonus visible in the tooltip.

With 3200 CPs and Might of the Guild:



Possible improvements:
- Alliance War passives (only Offensive Scroll I and Defensive Scroll I during the test, no emp buff)
- Use potions (none used here)
- Group buffs (tested solo)
- Use optimal gear (tested with some VR10 pieces)
- go to Cyrodiil to get the passive PVP buffs
- use food, I had forgotten it! (see numbers below)

See you in Cyrodiil!

Reykice

ToRelax wrote: »

Reykice wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Gyudan wrote: »

I boosted my character a bit and got to this:

- solo (no buffs from allies)
- basic 70 CPs used (24/23/23)
- no potions used

The tooltip damage of a procced (35%) Crystal Fragments is 11509.


It could go a bit higher, I'm not using the most optimal gear and some skills aren't fully morphed.

edit: I had forgotten to use food x)

How many CP ?

That is misleading... as you can see his cast time is instant... so he most likely has both the might of the guild buff and the extra 20% damage when CS is instant(procs) leading to a 40% damage increase...

He should be banned/warned for trying to skew the numbers in this way in an oficial feedback thread but then again i`m not a moderator so i may be wrong.

While the Crystal Shard numbers look big the actual damage per second is less that if you use Shock + light attacks... so Crystal Shard will be used only when it procs and is instant, not all the time.

[...]

Wrong, I can get higher tooltip numbers that way with same magicka and less spell damage. The tooltip is not effected by empower, but it may be effected by the spell damage buff. However, it does not have to be, 2k spell damage is not hard to achieve without the buff if you focus on it.

Just tested this in the game. it is how i said, you can get both to show in the tooltip... its not quite a 40% increase in flat damage due to... scaling maybe? but each buff increases the tooltip damage.

Well he says that is what he did above so its cool... no longer misleading.

ToRelax

DDuke wrote: »

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

SirEwan wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

I miss the LOL option.

Edit: Please go back and read all the complaints carefully to realize that most sorcs are talking about issues beyond pve dps. Thank you.

I am aware of the other issues. My post is in regards to only Sorcerer DPS. Nothing more.

Please clarify, your post and your subject is in regards to pve dps.

Your analysis does not equivocate healing, survivability, cc, utility, and pvp dps.

All those other aspect (with reflects, absorbs, inc-damage, cc, and non-static targets) are something entirely different. So your subject needs some clarification to recognize the limitations of its application.

I totally agree that the subject title needs to include PvE in it because this is simply not the case in pvp. Sorcs in pvp caster wise have been completely destroyed. There is no way to fight the other 3 classes with the changes to Sorcs now.

I hope you are not talking about the Sorcerer class, which has the highest burst damage & mobility available for magicka builds, as well as 16k+ (after nerf) dmg shield & perfect anti-melee tool (mines), as well as unblockable CC (Weakening Prison).

You can easily crit 18k+ with Entropy+CF proc, and follow it up with something like Meteor, while having the mobility of Streak/BoL & protection from Hardened Ward.

I don't see what the problem is. Perhaps there's some slight exaggeration & hyperboles going on here?

Posts like these are why we need the "Lol" button.

Fresh Template character in Full Legendary gear with Legendary enchants and VR10 Epic food in Cyrodiil, all points put into Magicka and 70 total champion points spent in magicka cost reduction, damage shield increases and magic damage increases. This is as good or better than what most people are going to have going live into patch.

Altmer Sorc
17755 Health
29219 Magicka,
11542 Stamina

Conjured ward in Cyrodiil is 10,592(including 33% bonus and champion point bonus) not 16K+
Crystal Fragments read 6776 damage. Entropy + CF proc brings it to something just over 10K and that crits for 15K not 18K and not "Easily" (You'll need to be subtracting spell resistance and crit resistance from that number as well...not to mention if you hit a shield you're only doing 10K instead of 15K.

If anyone is exaggerating or using hyperbole it is you.

BTW I went from being able to bolt escape 15 times using this exact template character in 1.6.2 to 9 times now.

I don't think ZoS realizes how broken Sorcs are in PvP right now.

I'll try to put this eloquently enough to not hurt any feelings or break forum rules: just because you haven't found the optimal build to attain good DPS & survivability as a Sorcerer, doesn't mean that the class is broken.

Take a look at the post @Gyudan posted above: 41218 magicka with 70CP, that's over twice what you have on your template, and enough to conjure up 16k+ dmg shields & 11509 CF procs.
Cast Entropy before that proc & you've got +20% more damage on it, 40% if the screenshot above was taken without Major Sorcery active.

In fact, on PTS Crystal Frags deal more damage than Snipe, and yet it's not good enough for some Sorcerers. Go figure...

The empower buff works only on one attack, so you better don't cancel a light attack with them, decreasing your dmage slightly.
More importantly, 20% more Spell damage is quite far from 20% more damage.
With a 70 CP PvP build my Fragments are critting for maximum 15k-16k.

xMovingTarget

ginoboehm wrote: »

The reason why guilds like hodor were running with 8dks was that they used the highest DPS build in the game which will still be melee ranged build in 1.6

We only have DKs!

Reykice

Gyudan wrote: »

Reykice wrote: »

That is misleading... as you can see his cast time is instant... so he most likely has both the might of the guild buff and the extra 20% damage when CS is instant(procs) leading to a 40% damage increase...

Actually I forgot about the Might of the Guild passive, which wasn't used for the first test. Thanks for reminding me @Reykice !
I did say that Crystal Fragments was "procced" though, granting the 20% damage bonus visible in the tooltip.

With 3200 CPs and Might of the Guild:



Possible improvements:
- Alliance War passives (only Offensive Scroll I and Defensive Scroll I during the test, no emp buff)
- Use potions (none used here)
- Group buffs (tested solo)
- Use optimal gear (tested with some VR10 pieces)

See you in Cyrodiil!

The 3200 CP`s will only be achieved in a few years... who knows how they will balance it then.

That said, burst damage was never a problem in PvP for the Sorcerer... nobody complained about it.

The problem is PvE dps and survivability... in light armor with 3600 CP a single vr 13 archer will hit me for 14k. Add a melee hit and i`m 2 shotted. This is made worse by the Surge healing nerf.... there is no way to recover. Sure i could spam the damage shield... but clapping my hands all day spamming the damage shield is a lot less cool and a lot less FUN than the previous Surge mechanic.

I get that the AOE healing was too much, sure nerf the AOE healing.... but leave the single target one alone. Now if you want Surge to heal you properly you must not use ANY dots or anything that provides small numbers, i even hate it when i proc burning on the enemy as it might crit and mess up the Surge healing.

I won`t even mention the Melee Sorcs who have to use the Lightning Form that is a small AOE every second making the Surge heals even worse...

They need Surge to work like it did before but with an AOE cap... while also making sure Sorcerers do the same constant dps as other classes. Don`t increase the burst damage if that is bad for PvP but please look at the DPS.

Tamriel Foundry has a lof of dps testst from good players... for all classes. Sorcs are lagging behind... no matter the build. This should not be the case considering that we are now pure glass thanks to the armor changes. We have the glass now please give us the cannon.

Gyudan

OMG sorry I had forgotten to use food

ToRelax

Gyudan wrote: »

OMG sorry I had forgotten to use food

Well, then cmon now, this is not possible without much more than 70 CP just mathematically anymore.
In fact, the Crystal Fragments are now buffed by Empower and the champion system perk in the Ritual.


Also @ZOS_GinaBruno this thread is failing it's purpose more and more, please leave a comment .

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Trolling & Baiting]