Endgame PvE Magicka Sorcerer DPS 1.6.3 - Good Job Zenimax! On Par with Other Magicka DPS Classes.

SirEwan · February 2015

Exstazik wrote: »

120 CP and ~11k dps

Can be achieved with less, I have been playing for less than a day and need to perfect the rotation.

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

SirEwan wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

I miss the LOL option.

Edit: Please go back and read all the complaints carefully to realize that most sorcs are talking about issues beyond pve dps. Thank you.

I am aware of the other issues. My post is in regards to only Sorcerer DPS. Nothing more.

Please clarify, your post and your subject is in regards to pve dps.

Your analysis does not equivocate healing, survivability, cc, utility, and pvp dps.

All those other aspect (with reflects, absorbs, inc-damage, cc, and non-static targets) are something entirely different. So your subject needs some clarification to recognize the limitations of its application.

I totally agree that the subject title needs to include PvE in it because this is simply not the case in pvp. Sorcs in pvp caster wise have been completely destroyed. There is no way to fight the other 3 classes with the changes to Sorcs now.

I hope you are not talking about the Sorcerer class, which has the highest burst damage & mobility available for magicka builds, as well as 16k+ (after nerf) dmg shield & perfect anti-melee tool (mines), as well as unblockable CC (Weakening Prison).

You can easily crit 18k+ with Entropy+CF proc, and follow it up with something like Meteor, while having the mobility of Streak/BoL & protection from Hardened Ward.

I don't see what the problem is. Perhaps there's some slight exaggeration & hyperboles going on here?

I don't want to hijack this thread as it now states PvE endgame and no longer Sorcs in general. The dps you described is a 1 time lucky burst. That is not the norm for pvp and no where even close to sustainable. Have a look at all of the threads available. Sorcs have increased costs across the board now and less dps.

Like I said check the many Sorc threads and you will see what I am talking about with pvp for Sorcs.

^ Thank you.

Faulgor · February 2015

SirEwan wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

SirEwan wrote: »

As I'm sure fellow Raiders understand, I would rather not post my exact build and rotation as we aim to achieve certain goals in trials as soon as 1.6 hits the live server and as far as I can see this will give us a great advantage over other teams initially.

No, actually I don't understand. Are you seriously worried people will steal your Sorcerer dps build that is easily outmatched by other dps classes and builds? Even more, a build that relies on ultimates and 3rd party buffs?

I'm sorry, I didn't realise you could complete Sanctum in the times I have without ultimates and third party buffs. This is, as I have specified, a typical raid scenario DPS result. Check the first one without ultimate and without buffs - 10.5-11.5k

I think you know exactly why this becomes a problem when trying to compare different classes in their sustained dps potential. You shouldn't introduce more confounding factors if you can avoid it.

Tanis-Stormbinder · February 2015

Hmm still see no real proof of numbers posted.

Verdwhisper · February 2015

Good job, but ppl are still going to like DKs more, right?
As a sorc, I can tell what ur build is like, and I am sure you can do better, need some tweaks on ur build though. Liquid lightning is a good idea, but you know blood spawn is the perfect place for this skill, most bosses tends to move.

Alcast · February 2015

Tanis-Stormbinder wrote: »

Hmm still see no real proof of numbers posted.

dude i posted a VIDEO of them dpsing the boss. I mean what do you want more?

SirEwan · February 2015

Verdwhisper wrote: »

Good job, but ppl are still going to like DKs more, right?
As a sorc, I can tell what ur build is like, and I am sure you can do better, need some tweaks on ur build though. Liquid lightning is a good idea, but you know blood spawn is the perfect place for this skill, most bosses tends to move.

Finally a constructive reply to my post. Yes, this definitely needs some working on. I'm sure Sorcs will eventually be able to pull and sustain even higher DPS.

As for if DK's are still preferred, I'm not sure. Sorcs can bring some useful tools to the raid such as Negate.

Exstazik · February 2015

SirEwan
15k health seems to low....last time on PTS,last boss in CoH hit me for 18k with big skull attack

WhiskeyJac · February 2015

Thanks SirEwan , ppl have been crying over Sorc DPS in Both PVE and PVP , thanks to you PVE is down , just hope someone confirms that it is viable in PVP and calm the masses down ..

Erock25 · February 2015

WhiskeyJac wrote: »

Thanks SirEwan , ppl have been crying over Sorc DPS in Both PVE and PVP , thanks to you PVE is down , just hope someone confirms that it is viable in PVP and calm the masses down ..

... and then everyone gets up in arms over the fact that Sorc were given close to zero consideration when it came to stamina morphs/passives! No? Okay I'll go away.

Radixo · February 2015

A small tip about light attack weaving with a fire staff. Light attacks do lower dmg than medium/heavy attacks but are faster. For medium attacks there is a strange bug/feature. When you do the medium attacks in between force shocks and only hold it for split second, sometime the attack fires, but does not do any damage. You need to charge up the medium attack a bit longer, it will do more dmg and will not fail to be cast. A lot of testing will need to be done on what combination of light/medium attack weaving is optimal.

Exstazik · February 2015

WhiskeyJac wrote: »

Thanks SirEwan , ppl have been crying over Sorc DPS in Both PVE and PVP , thanks to you PVE is down , just hope someone confirms that it is viable in PVP and calm the masses down ..

I want to see what will be with Zerg if 4-5 sorc cast Magicka detonation+Curse

ToRelax · February 2015

Exstazik wrote: »

WhiskeyJac wrote: »

Thanks SirEwan , ppl have been crying over Sorc DPS in Both PVE and PVP , thanks to you PVE is down , just hope someone confirms that it is viable in PVP and calm the masses down ..

I want to see what will be with Zerg if 4-5 sorc cast Magicka detonation+Curse

As of now, just put some bugged mines in their way and if they negate them you can put them again... much to fix before 1.6 hits Live...

Vis · February 2015

DDuke wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

SirEwan wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

I miss the LOL option.

Edit: Please go back and read all the complaints carefully to realize that most sorcs are talking about issues beyond pve dps. Thank you.

I am aware of the other issues. My post is in regards to only Sorcerer DPS. Nothing more.

Please clarify, your post and your subject is in regards to pve dps.

Your analysis does not equivocate healing, survivability, cc, utility, and pvp dps.

All those other aspect (with reflects, absorbs, inc-damage, cc, and non-static targets) are something entirely different. So your subject needs some clarification to recognize the limitations of its application.

I totally agree that the subject title needs to include PvE in it because this is simply not the case in pvp. Sorcs in pvp caster wise have been completely destroyed. There is no way to fight the other 3 classes with the changes to Sorcs now.

I hope you are not talking about the Sorcerer class, which has the highest burst damage & mobility available for magicka builds, as well as 16k+ (after nerf) dmg shield & perfect anti-melee tool (mines), as well as unblockable CC (Weakening Prison).

You can easily crit 18k+ with Entropy+CF proc, and follow it up with something like Meteor, while having the mobility of Streak/BoL & protection from Hardened Ward.

I don't see what the problem is. Perhaps there's some slight exaggeration & hyperboles going on here?

Burst means nothing if it all can be reflected/absorbed by the most widely used skills in the game. Heck, I would give every NB a one-shot nuke if they gave sorcs a cheap skill to be able to always reflect it.

Edited per our rules on rude comments.

Seraphyel · February 2015

SirEwan wrote: »

Verdwhisper wrote: »

Good job, but ppl are still going to like DKs more, right?
As a sorc, I can tell what ur build is like, and I am sure you can do better, need some tweaks on ur build though. Liquid lightning is a good idea, but you know blood spawn is the perfect place for this skill, most bosses tends to move.

Finally a constructive reply to my post. Yes, this definitely needs some working on. I'm sure Sorcs will eventually be able to pull and sustain even higher DPS.

As for if DK's are still preferred, I'm not sure. Sorcs can bring some useful tools to the raid such as Negate.

Oh, you are talking about Negate which was totally nerfed for PvP in 1.6... nice.

Thanks for the video.

glak · February 2015

Exstazik wrote: »

SirEwan
15k health seems to low....last time on PTS,last boss in CoH hit me for 18k with big skull attack

Screenshot taken without food buff yet.

Verdwhisper · February 2015

I dont think if negate worth anything on ur slot, unless zos make it 20-30% damage mitigation. Speed buff, mag regen does not worth it imo. Since ur using meteor ult, lightning and maybe destro 1, valkyn set might be a good idea. So 4 martial, 2 adroitness, 2 cyrodiil, master destro, valkyn, just my 2 cents. I dont quite like this thread u know? I am expecting more buffs to sorcs... So keep this to urself and hodor... Lol.

ToRelax · February 2015

BTW @SirEwan, is this damage with Nrinhoned weapons, as they seem to ignore all non champion system magic resistance?

Alcast · February 2015

Verdwhisper wrote: »

Good job, but ppl are still going to like DKs more, right?
As a sorc, I can tell what ur build is like, and I am sure you can do better, need some tweaks on ur build though. Liquid lightning is a good idea, but you know blood spawn is the perfect place for this skill, most bosses tends to move.

Most bosses do not move.

Gyudan · February 2015

15K health, vampire and 7/7 light armor. I'd wish good luck to your healer in DSA.

The 12% increase to critical strike from the Champion System Precision passive that you're using requires 90CPs and I don't think everyone is testing with that same amount. With shadow mundus and (I'm guessing) quite a few points in Elfborn and Thaumaturge, it means a large DPS increase, which would put you well under 14K DPS.

Your magicka regen also seems quite low (especially for a vamp) and I'm wondering if you even enchanted your jewelry with spell power for higher numbers. In any case, I'm seriously doubting your ability to sustain that damage.

I'd like to see numbers of other classes with the same glasscannon build in comparison.

DDuke · February 2015

Vis wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

SirEwan wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

I miss the LOL option.

Edit: Please go back and read all the complaints carefully to realize that most sorcs are talking about issues beyond pve dps. Thank you.

I am aware of the other issues. My post is in regards to only Sorcerer DPS. Nothing more.

Please clarify, your post and your subject is in regards to pve dps.

Your analysis does not equivocate healing, survivability, cc, utility, and pvp dps.

All those other aspect (with reflects, absorbs, inc-damage, cc, and non-static targets) are something entirely different. So your subject needs some clarification to recognize the limitations of its application.

I totally agree that the subject title needs to include PvE in it because this is simply not the case in pvp. Sorcs in pvp caster wise have been completely destroyed. There is no way to fight the other 3 classes with the changes to Sorcs now.

I hope you are not talking about the Sorcerer class, which has the highest burst damage & mobility available for magicka builds, as well as 16k+ (after nerf) dmg shield & perfect anti-melee tool (mines), as well as unblockable CC (Weakening Prison).

You can easily crit 18k+ with Entropy+CF proc, and follow it up with something like Meteor, while having the mobility of Streak/BoL & protection from Hardened Ward.

I don't see what the problem is. Perhaps there's some slight exaggeration & hyperboles going on here?

Burst means nothing if it all can be reflected/absorbed by the most widely used skills in the game. Heck, I would give every NB a one-shot nuke if they gave sorcs a cheap skill to be able to always reflect it.

Edited per our rules on rude comments.

So you'd like to see more unreflectable skills for sorcs? Or would you like to play a DK?

Because the former I can agree with, and I hope Spellcrafting brings some more options there.

For the time being, you'll have to do with what there is available for magicka build sorcs (Mines, Weakening Prison, Encase, Wall of Elements, Impulse, Lightning Splash).

indigoblades · February 2015

i see no evidence of ur claims for such high sustain dps.

daemonios · February 2015

Blood Spawn is hardly a good test for typical end-game PvE. It's a static boss where the party just spams their perfect rotation. No running around, no dodging, nothing but dps, buff & heal. It's also a rather short fight.

Also, I'm skeptical because you've posted those FTC numbers from chat a number of times but refuse to post the damage meter breakdown. I'm not saying you're lying, but you're sure being secretive and I'm wondering why.

Alcast · February 2015

daemonios wrote: »

Blood Spawn is hardly a good test for typical end-game PvE. It's a static boss where the party just spams their perfect rotation. No running around, no dodging, nothing but dps, buff & heal. It's also a rather short fight.

Also, I'm skeptical because you've posted those FTC numbers from chat a number of times but refuse to post the damage meter breakdown. I'm not saying you're lying, but you're sure being secretive and I'm wondering why.

The Mage, The Warrior, The Serpent > All static fights. Only Mantikora involves some movement. There are only some bosses that are not static (sadly).

Verdwhisper · February 2015

Still, 4 meters aoe... Reverse slash has 5 meters range.

OtarTheMad · February 2015

DDuke wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

SirEwan wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

I miss the LOL option.

Edit: Please go back and read all the complaints carefully to realize that most sorcs are talking about issues beyond pve dps. Thank you.

I am aware of the other issues. My post is in regards to only Sorcerer DPS. Nothing more.

Please clarify, your post and your subject is in regards to pve dps.

Your analysis does not equivocate healing, survivability, cc, utility, and pvp dps.

All those other aspect (with reflects, absorbs, inc-damage, cc, and non-static targets) are something entirely different. So your subject needs some clarification to recognize the limitations of its application.

I totally agree that the subject title needs to include PvE in it because this is simply not the case in pvp. Sorcs in pvp caster wise have been completely destroyed. There is no way to fight the other 3 classes with the changes to Sorcs now.

I hope you are not talking about the Sorcerer class, which has the highest burst damage & mobility available for magicka builds, as well as 16k+ (after nerf) dmg shield & perfect anti-melee tool (mines), as well as unblockable CC (Weakening Prison).

You can easily crit 18k+ with Entropy+CF proc, and follow it up with something like Meteor, while having the mobility of Streak/BoL & protection from Hardened Ward.

I don't see what the problem is. Perhaps there's some slight exaggeration & hyperboles going on here?

I agree and disagree with your statement. Sorcs are the weakest class regardless, maybe not as bad as some reactions have made them out to be (even mine) but they are not where they once were in terms of class rank. Trials will tell the tale I guess.

CF Proc, Entropy and Meteor are good skills and put that with Vel. Curse and you have an okay melt-face combination. However your example of a unblockable CC of Weakening Prison is just not a great example, the spell is not used by many Sorcs because of the cast time and the fact that it hits one target. The new morph Defensive Rune isn't bad but still has a cast time that can get you melted before you CC your target. A skill that I think is a lot better and under-utilized by some Sorcs is Shattering Prison because even if a player (and I am talking about PvP) breaks the spell they take the explosion damage, so cast that a few times plus Streak and some other spells, pretty good combination... just my opinion though.

Also your example of Daedric Mines being a good anti-melee ability, and while I do agree because I use Daedric Minefield in PvP in keep defenses. It can eat up magicka if you use it too much which is big negative. Do I think Daedric Mines is a skill that some over look? Yes. Do I understand the negatives of it though? Absolutely, and I agree.

I have been PvPing with my Sorc since Early Release, beta if you really want to go back, and I can say that I have never truly felt the Sorcerer class had a lot of useable abilities. What I mean by that is simply this... when I'm on my Nightblade or DK or Templar I often find myself going over my PvP bar and thinking "Man, I really wish I could fit spell X in there or spell Y... I really need a third bar". Now compare that to my Sorc and my thinking usually is "Man, what will work. I need to fill my bar but with what... hm... let's check other skill lines." Basically the Sorc class is the one class that will often run Purge, or now Magicka Det. or Vigor or Meteor or Barrier or War Horn or Fire Rune or Blood Altar or whatever simply because a lot of our abilities are not that useful.

The guy who posted this seems to have an okay build, health seems low even with food buff honestly. Even with your shield and food buff in PvP you might get owned... since I think players can crit on shields now on top of the 15% nerf. Sorcs will be able to last in any fight because of Streak, Shattering Prison and Destro staff abilities... but will not have the highest DPS. That being said I still shelved my Sorc and it will probably remained shelved for a little while

daemonios · February 2015

Alcast wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

Blood Spawn is hardly a good test for typical end-game PvE. It's a static boss where the party just spams their perfect rotation. No running around, no dodging, nothing but dps, buff & heal. It's also a rather short fight.

Also, I'm skeptical because you've posted those FTC numbers from chat a number of times but refuse to post the damage meter breakdown. I'm not saying you're lying, but you're sure being secretive and I'm wondering why.

The Mage, The Warrior, The Serpent > All static fights. Only Mantikora involves some movement. There are only some bosses that are not static (sadly).

Agreed regarding the Mage, but not the Warrior. You have to dodge his AoEs and sword swipes. It also has adds, which Bloodspawn doesn't. Anyway, hoping to see your build and rotation soon

indigoblades · February 2015

The more i play 1.6 pts, the more i think i better learn to enjoy a non sorc class or punt this game all togather.

Snit · February 2015

If you include Vet Dungeons, there are a lot more moving bosses. That diminishes Lightning Splash somewhat.

Gyudan · February 2015

I boosted my character a bit and got to this:

- solo (no buffs from allies)
- basic 70 CPs used (24/23/23)
- no potions used

The tooltip damage of a procced (35%) Crystal Fragments is 11509.

It could go a bit higher, I'm not using the most optimal gear and some skills aren't fully morphed.

edit: I had forgotten to use food x)

Wahee · February 2015

OP, I feel really bad for you. You come in here with a nice coherent post with screenshots and even a video and everyone is so worked up in a froth about Sorcs atm that they blame you for faking it as part of some vast anti-sorc conspiracy.

I think the OP just demonstrated a fairly viable dps rotation for PvE sorcs, and props for the coherent and contructive post. It might not be top dps in the game, and maybe it doesn't suit your playstyle, but it works. Everyone else seems to just want to scream about how the sky is falling while the OP goes and figures out how to make it work.

Bravo sir. I wish players of all classes would take notice and realize that testing things yourself bears more fruit than forum hysterics.