Endgame PvE Magicka Sorcerer DPS 1.6.3 - Good Job Zenimax! On Par with Other Magicka DPS Classes.

Gyudan · February 2015

ToRelax wrote: »

Well, then cmon now, this is not possible without much more than 70 CP just mathematically anymore.
In fact, the Crystal Fragments are now buffed by Empower and the champion system perk in the Ritual.

I wrote

With 3200 CPs and Might of the Guild:

above. If you want to see the version with 70CPs and without Empower, check the screenshots I posted yesterday.
I decided to provide both since some people were having doubts about the first shots.

The gear is basic necropot/magnus/destructive mage and not all items are at the optimal level.
The skills used are easy enough to figure out since I'm using 3 toggles.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

ToRelax · February 2015

Gyudan wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Well, then cmon now, this is not possible without much more than 70 CP just mathematically anymore.
In fact, the Crystal Fragments are now buffed by Empower and the champion system perk in the Ritual.

I wrote

With 3200 CPs and Might of the Guild:

above. If you want to see the version with 70CPs and without Empower, check the screenshots I posted yesterday.
I decided to provide both since some people were having doubts about the first shots.

The gear is basic necropot/magnus/destructive mage and not all items are at the optimal level.
The skills used are easy enough to figure out since I'm using 3 toggles.

Oh, sorry, I didn't see

However, 3 Toggles would have been good to know as it makes it irrelevant about certian people using it to say something about PvP

.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

xherics · February 2015

Well, please stop posting screenshots and stats with more than 70 CP used, because there is no point to do that. The simple reason to stop this is that at the beginning, we all will have max 70 CP.

Based on this I suppose, that all the classes should be on the same level of everything with 70CP - you know, ZOS is making rebalance.

There is no balance, if first class is doing for example 15k DPS with 70 CP and second class do the same DPS with 3200 CP.

Because of this, please post constructive comments only. We all want real stats and real screenshots only.
As many people said before me, 3200 CP at the moment = quite lof ot months (years) of gameplay = we still do not know, if the game can survive that much time

Fayaburn · February 2015

xherics wrote: »

xherics wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

My friends have 13k DPS as sorcs. So I dunno what you guys do wrong. (that is approx for 40sec)

It is now one of the stronger classes, so why do you keep moaning about weak sorcs.

Yes, it was exactly this: Blood Spawn (46.5s) - 615,459 Total Damage (13239.1 DPS)

But, we need to mention as well:
- Permanent Combat Prayer
- DPS boost War horn
- used ultimate on the Fight start

So, this 13k will be not sustainable in longer fights than 1 minute and even will be less, when we do not receive Combat prayer.

xherics wrote: »

I forgot to mention, that I used 70 CP only.

And I will not comment the attacking behavior of others, useless.

I posted the DPS, said, how did I do it, just not the gear + skills combo, because as Alcast said, you need to learn/find out it as well. Just an info, I did not use PET!

Before 1.6.3 my max dps for the same time and same boss was 8K-9K with the same gear/skills like now 12k-13k.

I still think, that 2% spell damage is not enough, it needs to be min 4%. I still think, that some nerfs what we got are not correct and should be reverted; or ZOS should just boost the sorcerer class by other changes.

EDIT: I still think, that the cooldown should be removed from Surge and make it heals from max 6 targets.

@xherics

Congratulations for working out a build that seems truely competitive. Sincerly. It warms me up to see that even if I did not manage yet to produce such a performant build, it can be made.

However, please try not to be too harsh with the Sorcerers who did not find out something working yet. I bet you can understand their frustration and why they are being dubitative at the moment.
In fact, not so long ago, you were in the same situation and shared their point of view.
cf. a post from the frustrated you when you hadn't yet found your build, even with the 1.6.3 patch on PTS :
forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1566716/#Comment_1566716

xherics · February 2015

@Fayaburn all my prev. posts are still my opinion and I still think that sorcerer got a huge nerf; I am still in the same situation as before, just I am trying to be more friendly and not rage, just make constructive comments

I can totally understand the frustration and I can confirm you, that I am still frustrated as well, because of nerfs, even that I know, that we can do better DPS now (after 1.6.3) than before (1.6.0-1.6.2). Unfortunately ZOS made also nerfs with the small buff...

As I said before, the OP mentioned DPS and the DPS what I did, what Alcast showed in the video is the hardcore raid type, unfortunately for not longer time, than 60 second - I still think, that the showed 13k DPS will be like 10k-11k max during longer fights.
I need also to mention, that the skill rotation for this (what I used) is not as easy as before, and it is possible to easily broke the rotation because of weapon (skill bar) change animation, speed. It needs at least some hours practice to learn the new effects and it will need some long weeks to learn the rotation to have it on 100%.

To be more constructive, here are the real CF screenshots from my sorc with 70 CP spent them in all 3 CP categories:

EDIT: These numbers are with applied Major Sorcery buff, so Power Surge and with 19k health and 25k magicka.

Erock25 · February 2015

Gyudan wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Well, then cmon now, this is not possible without much more than 70 CP just mathematically anymore.
In fact, the Crystal Fragments are now buffed by Empower and the champion system perk in the Ritual.
Not answering how you build your stats like that but showing off screens with higher numbers is obviously trolling.

I wrote

With 3200 CPs and Might of the Guild:

above. If you want to see the version with 70CPs and without Empower, check the screenshots I posted yesterday.
I decided to provide both since some people were having doubts about the first shots.

The gear is basic necropot/magnus/destructive mage and not all items are at the optimal level.
The skills used are easy enough to figure out since I'm using 3 toggles.

How many pieces of heavy armor are you using? Your spell resist and armor still looks very high.

Jujujitsu · February 2015

@ZOS_GinaBruno Please do not take this thread seriously as they are not using true 70 CP builds. From a thread that was locked SirEwan says his 70 CP is allocated as such .....

40 Champion points spent in the Mage.
20 Champion points spent in the Theif.

To achieve 40 CP in any single tree you would need approximately 120 CP, because they are place one at a time in a rotation around Mage, Thief, Warrior. So his build is in theory with 120 CP. If at release we are given 70 CP that means that we need to earn another 50CP... no big deal you think?

50CP x 400,000 exp per level = 20,000,000 exp. So for his build you would need to earn 20 million experience first.

Please stop misleading the DEVS with this kind of "proof"

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting Comments]

pppontus · February 2015

Jujujitsu wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno Please do not take this thread seriously as they are not using true 70 CP builds. From a thread that was locked SirEwan says his 70 CP is allocated as such .....

40 Champion points spent in the Mage.
20 Champion points spent in the Theif.

To achieve 40 CP in any single tree you would need approximately 120 CP, because they are place one at a time in a rotation around Mage, Thief, Warrior. So his build is in theory with 120 CP. If at release we are given 70 CP that means that we need to earn another 50CP... no big deal you think?

50CP x 400,000 exp per level = 20,000,000 exp. So for his build you would need to earn 20 million experience first.

Please stop misleading the DEVS with this kind of "proof"

Did you consider that the DKs, NBs and Templars might well do the same thing.. all comparisons suck unless they truly are 70 CP. And you can't really know that unless you trust them.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Jujujitsu · February 2015

@pppontus Of course what you say is true. But this information is stated in context that everything is fine with the sorc imporvements in 1.6.3 Unfortunately the basis for his argument is wrong since they used too many CP.

Just wanted to point that out so we can all be on the same page with the discussion.

Jahosefat · February 2015

DDuke wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

SirEwan wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

I miss the LOL option.

Edit: Please go back and read all the complaints carefully to realize that most sorcs are talking about issues beyond pve dps. Thank you.

I am aware of the other issues. My post is in regards to only Sorcerer DPS. Nothing more.

Please clarify, your post and your subject is in regards to pve dps.

Your analysis does not equivocate healing, survivability, cc, utility, and pvp dps.

All those other aspect (with reflects, absorbs, inc-damage, cc, and non-static targets) are something entirely different. So your subject needs some clarification to recognize the limitations of its application.

I totally agree that the subject title needs to include PvE in it because this is simply not the case in pvp. Sorcs in pvp caster wise have been completely destroyed. There is no way to fight the other 3 classes with the changes to Sorcs now.

I hope you are not talking about the Sorcerer class, which has the highest burst damage & mobility available for magicka builds, as well as 16k+ (after nerf) dmg shield & perfect anti-melee tool (mines), as well as unblockable CC (Weakening Prison).

You can easily crit 18k+ with Entropy+CF proc, and follow it up with something like Meteor, while having the mobility of Streak/BoL & protection from Hardened Ward.

I don't see what the problem is. Perhaps there's some slight exaggeration & hyperboles going on here?

The numbers you have posted are for 3600 CP and heavy mag investment with 7/7 light. No one is going to be doing these numbers early on, they would have no stam for block/cc break/roll dodge so just root/CC them, and NB can hit 25K stambushes. Stam NB is doing the most burst DPS in the game, followed by 2H stam DK. And you know what? Stam NB and DK can actually CC break more than twice.

Also, block casting is crazy strong. Why aren't people complaining about that? I probably won't even put a bubble on my bar come 1.6, I can stack the heck out of block cost reduction and never get crit in PVP again; and it is preventing a bunch of mechanics from going off like... surge heals.

Septimus_Magna · February 2015

Very nice numbers OP, Im curious about your gear sets and rotation. Magicka dps for sorcs is looking a lot better compared to 1.5 imo. I also did some testing with my VR14 sorc on the pts, just 70 CP invested in groups of 5 so not every point in a couple buffs. For the sake of testing I put everything into magicka and spell power except jewelry, my stats are as following:

7/7 Light armor and all skills max level and all passives unlocked with purple vr5 food
magicka 32k (with inner light on)
health 13k
spell damage 2103 (with gold crafted staff)
spell critical 37% (with inner light on)

Max dps without ulitmate: 11k
Max dps with ulitmate: 13k

I was testing dps on some giants and mammoths so its was really short burst but I noticed a couple interesting things:
1. Power surge works way better than entropy because of the delay and short 12 second duration. Also power surge restores 5x more health during my tests.
2. Its still a little bit difficult to weave a medium attack after crystal frags but way better than before.
3. lightning splash does about the same dps (around 1.5k) as the Greater Storm atronach (without curse and ward)
4. Meteor does 11k damage and a lot of ground AOE damage, seems to be the obivious choice for dps.

The damage will only increase in long fight because the full duration of meteor will be used, elemental drain will be applied and there will be buffs like combat prayer , warhorn etc.

darkrozes_rob16_ESO · February 2015

danovic wrote: »

Think the main complaint is from pvp sorc everything in there line can eather be dodged, blocked, broken out of or just avoided. Crystal shards is to slow (3 seconds from start of cast until it hits target at range) and its the only spammable dd spell they have. Have had melee charge in kill the target before the crystal spell even went off. Willing to bet you got these number using mostly guild and weapons abilities not mage skill line. The improvements made to the skill line only work against pve mobs who are to dumb to avoid them. Daedric curse is a joke 6/3.5 seconds of nothing then maybe it explodes (it should be a Dot) if it hasn't been cleansed. Mages fury only good if you get them the last 20 percent of health which you would be long dead before seeing in pvp. Pets fill half your bars seeing as they have to be used on 2 bars leaving very few options with them. They could fix a lot just by making cast pets independent of bar changes so wouldn't fill 2 bars. I play all four classes and just can't stand any of the play with a sorc it just seems wrong to me. Guess I was Expecting the old D&D standard lightning chain, magic missiles and fireball or some form of those which were all available in some form or another of elder scrolls Games in the past.

Offtopic just to hop in some numbers. After a Day in Cyrodiil, i checked my combat log. Leading was Velocious curse 564k total dmg, Batswarm 515k Streak 436k, Fragments 331K !!! So even the streak has a higher dps than our poor fragments, which should be the main dps source, but they get either reflected, dodged, and on top of that, they are nerfing their proc chance... WHY ? And what am i going to do when i try to burst down a stamina 2hander that keeps rolling into my face and hiting me with wrecking blow to death .... Oh wait, cast my -15% dmg shield ... or, break cc twice cuz i have no more stamina left... dunno where those changes are going... And don't understand why cc break, roll, sprint isn't Already a diferent pool than stamina based skills...

xherics · February 2015

Alcast wrote: »

Here for all of you infidels. If you cant believe it with that then so be it.

Hint: In most siutations your healer should support you with aggro horn and prayer.

Tanking perspective
http://youtu.be/B5bTogFe2c8

[Moderator Note: Removed response to moderated content]

halfbadger · February 2015

This was done on a sorc with 3600 points, template gear and without group buffs.

Mana based dps sorcs have the best dot in the game as of the latest pts patch and nobody can say otherwise. Stop crying about nerfs.

rfennell_ESO · February 2015

Nothing in this thread past a video of a templar tanking a dungeon boss.

Past that there are claims, easily falsified or possibly just made up about a build the OP refuses to share (top secret uber guild classified omg)., claims that could have been backed up by a simple video.

/g Blood spawn (45.3s) - 750,231 Total Damage (16582 DPS) : take screenshot, provide as proof.

Then a lot of chest puffing and taunting. Thanks for sharing, keep up the "winning".

florian.billeb16_ESO · February 2015

SirEwan wrote: »

So, many Sorcerers here are complaining about Endgame DPS and a guildmate of mine posted a screenshot of my DPS along with another Guildmate's DPS in another post complaining about Sorc DPS. In fact it was entitled "1.6.3 Sorc Magicka Builds Still Ruined!!!" which I must admit, made me chuckle.

Here's some results from a few tests on the Blood Spawn.
I realise this is a 50 Second fight at max, but it is evident this is sustanable on such fights i.e. The Serpent with my current rotation. (considering my ultimate regenerates every 60-100 seconds, which it does.)

The following results were also obtained with 0 PvP Buffs (Please remove PvP Buffs from PvE BTW Zenimax)

I will update the post as soon as I have additional information.

Test 1
Blood Spawn (45.2s) - 477,336 Total Damage (10556.6 DPS)
No Buffs No Ultimate
(I have achieved higher, just did one test to post here)

Test 2
Blood Spawn (37.9s) - 518,410 Total Damage (13687.0 DPS)
+ Combat Prayer and Aggressive Warhorn (Typical Sanctum Scenario)

Test 3
Blood Spawn (46.0s) - 553,028 Total Damage (12017.4 DPS)
+ Combat Prayer and Aggressive Warhorn (Typical Sanctum Scenario)

Test 4 (Full Fight)
Blood Spawn (49.8s) - 612,952 Total Damage (12312.5 DPS)
+ Combat Prayer and Aggressive Warhorn (Typical Sanctum Scenario)

Test 5 (Full Fight)
Blood Spawn (46.5s) - 615,459 Total Damage (13239.1 DPS)
+ Combat Prayer and Aggressive Warhorn (Typical Sanctum Scenario)

Initial Burst Damage (Max I Pinged is 22k)
Blood Spawn (13.6s) - 218,312 Total Damage (16006.5 DPS)

[/quote]

Maybe, it's good... but are the class really balanced ? are the sorcerer at the same level for DPS as DK stamina (or just a little less like 10 %) ?

No,
What I have seen for DK Stamina is 15000 without cp point and without pvp buff
and 16'400 with 70 CP point without PVP buff...

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/incoming-1-6-dk-2h-pve-dps-build-the-***-slapper/

So when i take your stat and my example sorcerer do 30 % less damage than DK Stamina for DPS (one target)

and if we speak about the AOE DPS, it's maybe again 70 % 100 % DPS less than DK.

I don't want to play again a game when a class non competitive for heal and tank do 30 % less DPS,

And you pretend that sorcerer is fine when they do 30 % DPS ???

You don't see a problem ?

Alcast · February 2015

florian.billeb16_ESO wrote: »

SirEwan wrote: »

So, many Sorcerers here are complaining about Endgame DPS and a guildmate of mine posted a screenshot of my DPS along with another Guildmate's DPS in another post complaining about Sorc DPS. In fact it was entitled "1.6.3 Sorc Magicka Builds Still Ruined!!!" which I must admit, made me chuckle.

Here's some results from a few tests on the Blood Spawn.
I realise this is a 50 Second fight at max, but it is evident this is sustanable on such fights i.e. The Serpent with my current rotation. (considering my ultimate regenerates every 60-100 seconds, which it does.)

The following results were also obtained with 0 PvP Buffs (Please remove PvP Buffs from PvE BTW Zenimax)

I will update the post as soon as I have additional information.

Test 1
Blood Spawn (45.2s) - 477,336 Total Damage (10556.6 DPS)
No Buffs No Ultimate
(I have achieved higher, just did one test to post here)

Test 2
Blood Spawn (37.9s) - 518,410 Total Damage (13687.0 DPS)
+ Combat Prayer and Aggressive Warhorn (Typical Sanctum Scenario)

Test 3
Blood Spawn (46.0s) - 553,028 Total Damage (12017.4 DPS)
+ Combat Prayer and Aggressive Warhorn (Typical Sanctum Scenario)

Test 4 (Full Fight)
Blood Spawn (49.8s) - 612,952 Total Damage (12312.5 DPS)
+ Combat Prayer and Aggressive Warhorn (Typical Sanctum Scenario)

Test 5 (Full Fight)
Blood Spawn (46.5s) - 615,459 Total Damage (13239.1 DPS)
+ Combat Prayer and Aggressive Warhorn (Typical Sanctum Scenario)

Initial Burst Damage (Max I Pinged is 22k)
Blood Spawn (13.6s) - 218,312 Total Damage (16006.5 DPS)

Maybe, it's good... but are the class really balanced ? are the sorcerer at the same level for DPS as DK stamina (or just a little less like 10 %) ?

No,
What I have seen for DK Stamina is 15000 without cp point and without pvp buff
and 16'400 with 70 CP point without PVP buff...

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/incoming-1-6-dk-2h-pve-dps-build-the-***-slapper/

So when i take your stat and my example sorcerer do 30 % less damage than DK Stamina for DPS (one target)

and if we speak about the AOE DPS, it's maybe again 70 % 100 % DPS less than DK.

I don't want to play again a game when a class non competitive for heal and tank do 30 % less DPS,

And you pretend that sorcerer is fine when they do 30 % DPS ???

You don't see a problem ?
[/quote]

Please show me a stam DK video or FTC pic from 1.6.3 so we can check. DKs do and always will do more dps than other classes bc ZOS employees are DK fanboys.

But I also understand that you do not trust any numbers, I also do not trust your numbers either LoL.

halfbadger · February 2015

@Alcast if you want to see a stam DK dps meter in 1.6.3 you should get me some gear and group with me

florian.billeb16_ESO · February 2015

My link was a picture about DK FTC pic (maybe not from 1.6.3), but
Please show me a stam DK video or FTC pic from 1.6.3 so we can check. DKs do and always will do more dps than other classes bc ZOS employees are DK fanboys.

But I also understand that you do not trust any numbers, I also do not trust your numbers either LoL.

I agree with your number, i have quote in my post...
I don't know exactly the DPS for DK stamina now, i don't know if 1.6.2 to 1.6.3 have a lot change something.

My link was maybe for 1.6.2... anyways, what i have seen it's just 30 % more damage than you can do with a good sorcerer and that just not balanced.

I try to argue with a link to Tamriel foundry with a DPS, but I know very well than in your famous guild you have enough DK to do the same test with stamina DK on the same boss, so please, you can answer me and tell me how much DPS do DK Stamina ?

And i wait your response, because I can't test DK Stamina and i am very interessed about this question. Maybe I am wrong in my number, but if I am right, 30 % less DPS just mean than there is a real problem between class.

Alcast · February 2015

florian.billeb16_ESO wrote: »

Please show me a stam DK video or FTC pic from 1.6.3 so we can check. DKs do and always will do more dps than other classes bc ZOS employees are DK fanboys.

But I also understand that you do not trust any numbers, I also do not trust your numbers either LoL.

I agree with your number, i have quote in my post...
I don't know exactly the DPS for DK stamina now, i don't know if 1.6.2 to 1.6.3 have a lot change something.

My link was maybe for 1.6.2... anyways, what i have seen it's just 30 % more damage than you can do with a good sorcerer and that just not balanced.

I try to argue with a link to Tamriel foundry with a DPS, but I know very well than in your famous guild you have enough DK to do the same test with stamina DK on the same boss, so please, you can answer me and tell me how much DPS do DK Stamina ?

And i wait your response, because I can't test DK Stamina and i am very interessed about this question. Maybe I am wrong in my number, but if I am right, 30 % less DPS just mean than there is a real problem between class.

We only have magicka DKs. They refuse to go stam >.>

Alcast · February 2015

halfbadger wrote: »

@Alcast if you want to see a stam DK dps meter in 1.6.3 you should get me some gear and group with me

I am still waiting for your Sorc post :P

halfbadger · February 2015

halfbadger wrote: »

This was done on a sorc with 3600 points, template gear and without group buffs.

Mana based dps sorcs have the best dot in the game as of the latest pts patch and nobody can say otherwise. Stop crying about nerfs.

@Alcast right here
we cant let the peasants know about this

Nihil · February 2015

Template character, 70 cp, not min maxed Mana (aimed for 19k hp to make sure to avoid one shots).
With summon no other toggles
j0CDxyM.jpg?1

No summons one toggle (bound aegis)
96iCuwz.jpg?1

Yes short fights, but no ultimate was use to get rid of the factor that it would not be up for an entire fight.

Note: Summoning builds will always yield more dps then non summoning builds, as they are a passive form of damage that does not need to be refreshed and don't lower the over all dps of the caster, Thus why I think it is important to not allow them to be used from just one slot. We sacrifice utility and flexibility for damage. The only way for ZoS to actually balance the 2, would to 1)make summons die faster, 2)make it so it is detrimental to have a summon out 3)force sorcs to have 10 skills specifically slotted to get max dps (thus destroying flexibility). If summons die to fast tho, they become useless, and people don't like the idea that a summon you can't fully control could become a liability.

SirEwan · February 2015

Nihil wrote: »

Template character, 70 cp, not min maxed Mana (aimed for 19k hp to make sure to avoid one shots).
With summon no other toggles

No summons one toggle (bound aegis)

Yes short fights, but no ultimate was use to get rid of the factor that it would not be up for an entire fight.

Note: Summoning builds will always yield more dps then non summoning builds, as they are a passive form of damage that does not need to be refreshed and don't lower the over all dps of the caster, Thus why I think it is important to not allow them to be used from just one slot. We sacrifice utility and flexibility for damage. The only way for ZoS to actually balance the 2, would to 1)make summons die faster, 2)make it so it is detrimental to have a summon out 3)force sorcs to have 10 skills specifically slotted to get max dps (thus destroying flexibility). If summons die to fast tho, they become useless, and people don't like the idea that a summon you can't fully control could become a liability.

Pets are still just as useless as before. Higher DPS without pets.

Nihil · February 2015

SirEwan wrote: »

Nihil wrote: »

Template character, 70 cp, not min maxed Mana (aimed for 19k hp to make sure to avoid one shots).
With summon no other toggles

No summons one toggle (bound aegis)

Yes short fights, but no ultimate was use to get rid of the factor that it would not be up for an entire fight.

Note: Summoning builds will always yield more dps then non summoning builds, as they are a passive form of damage that does not need to be refreshed and don't lower the over all dps of the caster, Thus why I think it is important to not allow them to be used from just one slot. We sacrifice utility and flexibility for damage. The only way for ZoS to actually balance the 2, would to 1)make summons die faster, 2)make it so it is detrimental to have a summon out 3)force sorcs to have 10 skills specifically slotted to get max dps (thus destroying flexibility). If summons die to fast tho, they become useless, and people don't like the idea that a summon you can't fully control could become a liability.

Pets are still just as useless as before. Higher DPS without pets.

You must of found some builds I didn't then XD the only way I found to increase my dps (which I couldn't do solo) would to also put in thundering presence, and liquid lightning (for stationary fights, and could make a change to my pet builds the same way), mines looks good to but sustain would be lost if cast too often. This could also be based on armor that I didn't have access too, as I like doing tests with template characters (less variables if wanting to test against other classes).

So my second premise might be wrong t\as I will need to look into, but my images do show that 8-9k dps from a very optimal build is achievable, thus 10k should be easy to achieve with changes in gears (and depending on fights skills).

Gorthax · February 2015

Do you mind doing all that within the limit of 26 each category to mimic 1.6 going live? Cuz you sure as heck are not gonna have the apprentice with 40 points in it at live. Though I do see it being this good later on, like months after you grinded enough points

Jujujitsu · February 2015

SirEwan wrote: »

So, many Sorcerers here are complaining about Endgame DPS and a guildmate of mine posted a screenshot of my DPS along with another Guildmate's DPS in another post complaining about Sorc DPS. In fact it was entitled "1.6.3 Sorc Magicka Builds Still Ruined!!!" which I must admit, made me chuckle.

Here's some results from a few tests on the Blood Spawn.
I realise this is a 50 Second fight at max, but it is evident this is sustanable on such fights i.e. The Serpent with my current rotation. (considering my ultimate regenerates every 60-100 seconds, which it does.)

The following results were also obtained with 0 PvP Buffs (Please remove PvP Buffs from PvE BTW Zenimax)

I will update the post as soon as I have additional information.

Test 1
Blood Spawn (45.2s) - 477,336 Total Damage (10556.6 DPS)
No Buffs No Ultimate
(I have achieved higher, just did one test to post here)

Test 2
Blood Spawn (37.9s) - 518,410 Total Damage (13687.0 DPS)
+ Combat Prayer and Aggressive Warhorn (Typical Sanctum Scenario)

Test 3
Blood Spawn (46.0s) - 553,028 Total Damage (12017.4 DPS)
+ Combat Prayer and Aggressive Warhorn (Typical Sanctum Scenario)

Test 4 (Full Fight)
Blood Spawn (49.8s) - 612,952 Total Damage (12312.5 DPS)
+ Combat Prayer and Aggressive Warhorn (Typical Sanctum Scenario)

Test 5 (Full Fight)
Blood Spawn (46.5s) - 615,459 Total Damage (13239.1 DPS)
+ Combat Prayer and Aggressive Warhorn (Typical Sanctum Scenario)

Initial Burst Damage (Max I Pinged is 22k)
Blood Spawn (13.6s) - 218,312 Total Damage (16006.5 DPS)

My statistics. No food buff / Power Surge

My Champion Points.

Two of our Sorcerers.

As I'm sure fellow Raiders understand, I would rather not post my exact build and rotation as we aim to achieve certain goals in trials as soon as 1.6 hits the live server and as far as I can see this will give us a great advantage over other teams initially.

As for my personal opinion on the state of Sorcerers right now, having played one since early Beta, I think Zenimax has done a great job balancing the class. Many more options are now available to us and it appears we are on par with other Magicka based DPS classes / builds.

Alcast wrote: »

Here for all of you infidels. If you cant believe it with that then so be it.

Hint: In most siutations your healer should support you with aggro horn and prayer.

And for people who cant get it, this is from the tanking perspective.
http://youtu.be/B5bTogFe2c8

I am not trying to troll or derail this discussion, I am however pointing out that the whole basis that the OP is claiming that sorcs are fixed is wrong. It clearly shows in his " My Champion Points" pic ... see above in his post ... that he used 40 pts in the Mage tree. In order to do that you would need 120 CP and not the original concept that this DPS was achieved with 70 CP.

In order to get that 40 CP in the Mage you would need to get 20 million experience under the current XP:CP conversion stated by ZoS. That represents months of leveling for the average player and therefor the entire premise is INVALID.

Sorry to state it that way, but if I am incorrect in this math ... please point out my mistake.

Gorthax · February 2015

Jujujitsu wrote: »

SirEwan wrote: »

So, many Sorcerers here are complaining about Endgame DPS and a guildmate of mine posted a screenshot of my DPS along with another Guildmate's DPS in another post complaining about Sorc DPS. In fact it was entitled "1.6.3 Sorc Magicka Builds Still Ruined!!!" which I must admit, made me chuckle.

Here's some results from a few tests on the Blood Spawn.
I realise this is a 50 Second fight at max, but it is evident this is sustanable on such fights i.e. The Serpent with my current rotation. (considering my ultimate regenerates every 60-100 seconds, which it does.)

The following results were also obtained with 0 PvP Buffs (Please remove PvP Buffs from PvE BTW Zenimax)

I will update the post as soon as I have additional information.

Test 1
Blood Spawn (45.2s) - 477,336 Total Damage (10556.6 DPS)
No Buffs No Ultimate
(I have achieved higher, just did one test to post here)

Test 2
Blood Spawn (37.9s) - 518,410 Total Damage (13687.0 DPS)
+ Combat Prayer and Aggressive Warhorn (Typical Sanctum Scenario)

Test 3
Blood Spawn (46.0s) - 553,028 Total Damage (12017.4 DPS)
+ Combat Prayer and Aggressive Warhorn (Typical Sanctum Scenario)

Test 4 (Full Fight)
Blood Spawn (49.8s) - 612,952 Total Damage (12312.5 DPS)
+ Combat Prayer and Aggressive Warhorn (Typical Sanctum Scenario)

Test 5 (Full Fight)
Blood Spawn (46.5s) - 615,459 Total Damage (13239.1 DPS)
+ Combat Prayer and Aggressive Warhorn (Typical Sanctum Scenario)

Initial Burst Damage (Max I Pinged is 22k)
Blood Spawn (13.6s) - 218,312 Total Damage (16006.5 DPS)

My statistics. No food buff / Power Surge

My Champion Points.

Two of our Sorcerers.

As I'm sure fellow Raiders understand, I would rather not post my exact build and rotation as we aim to achieve certain goals in trials as soon as 1.6 hits the live server and as far as I can see this will give us a great advantage over other teams initially.

As for my personal opinion on the state of Sorcerers right now, having played one since early Beta, I think Zenimax has done a great job balancing the class. Many more options are now available to us and it appears we are on par with other Magicka based DPS classes / builds.

Alcast wrote: »

Here for all of you infidels. If you cant believe it with that then so be it.

Hint: In most siutations your healer should support you with aggro horn and prayer.

And for people who cant get it, this is from the tanking perspective.
http://youtu.be/B5bTogFe2c8

I am not trying to troll or derail this discussion, I am however pointing out that the whole basis that the OP is claiming that sorcs are fixed is wrong. It clearly shows in his " My Champion Points" pic ... see above in his post ... that he used 40 pts in the Mage tree. In order to do that you would need 120 CP and not the original concept that this DPS was achieved with 70 CP.

In order to get that 40 CP in the Mage you would need to get 20 million experience under the current XP:CP conversion stated by ZoS. That represents months of leveling for the average player and therefor the entire premise is INVALID.

Sorry to state it that way, but if I am incorrect in this math ... please point out my mistake.

you are not. That was my question to him too, to do it in a LIVE scenario of 1.6 going to live servers. I.E. only 26 points roughly in each category to spend

Nihil · February 2015

Gorthax wrote: »

Jujujitsu wrote: »

SirEwan wrote: »

So, many Sorcerers here are complaining about Endgame DPS and a guildmate of mine posted a screenshot of my DPS along with another Guildmate's DPS in another post complaining about Sorc DPS. In fact it was entitled "1.6.3 Sorc Magicka Builds Still Ruined!!!" which I must admit, made me chuckle.

Here's some results from a few tests on the Blood Spawn.
I realise this is a 50 Second fight at max, but it is evident this is sustanable on such fights i.e. The Serpent with my current rotation. (considering my ultimate regenerates every 60-100 seconds, which it does.)

The following results were also obtained with 0 PvP Buffs (Please remove PvP Buffs from PvE BTW Zenimax)

I will update the post as soon as I have additional information.

Test 1
Blood Spawn (45.2s) - 477,336 Total Damage (10556.6 DPS)
No Buffs No Ultimate
(I have achieved higher, just did one test to post here)

Test 2
Blood Spawn (37.9s) - 518,410 Total Damage (13687.0 DPS)
+ Combat Prayer and Aggressive Warhorn (Typical Sanctum Scenario)

Test 3
Blood Spawn (46.0s) - 553,028 Total Damage (12017.4 DPS)
+ Combat Prayer and Aggressive Warhorn (Typical Sanctum Scenario)

Test 4 (Full Fight)
Blood Spawn (49.8s) - 612,952 Total Damage (12312.5 DPS)
+ Combat Prayer and Aggressive Warhorn (Typical Sanctum Scenario)

Test 5 (Full Fight)
Blood Spawn (46.5s) - 615,459 Total Damage (13239.1 DPS)
+ Combat Prayer and Aggressive Warhorn (Typical Sanctum Scenario)

Initial Burst Damage (Max I Pinged is 22k)
Blood Spawn (13.6s) - 218,312 Total Damage (16006.5 DPS)

My statistics. No food buff / Power Surge

My Champion Points.

Two of our Sorcerers.

As I'm sure fellow Raiders understand, I would rather not post my exact build and rotation as we aim to achieve certain goals in trials as soon as 1.6 hits the live server and as far as I can see this will give us a great advantage over other teams initially.

As for my personal opinion on the state of Sorcerers right now, having played one since early Beta, I think Zenimax has done a great job balancing the class. Many more options are now available to us and it appears we are on par with other Magicka based DPS classes / builds.

Alcast wrote: »

Here for all of you infidels. If you cant believe it with that then so be it.

Hint: In most siutations your healer should support you with aggro horn and prayer.

And for people who cant get it, this is from the tanking perspective.
http://youtu.be/B5bTogFe2c8

I am not trying to troll or derail this discussion, I am however pointing out that the whole basis that the OP is claiming that sorcs are fixed is wrong. It clearly shows in his " My Champion Points" pic ... see above in his post ... that he used 40 pts in the Mage tree. In order to do that you would need 120 CP and not the original concept that this DPS was achieved with 70 CP.

In order to get that 40 CP in the Mage you would need to get 20 million experience under the current XP:CP conversion stated by ZoS. That represents months of leveling for the average player and therefor the entire premise is INVALID.

Sorry to state it that way, but if I am incorrect in this math ... please point out my mistake.

you are not. That was my question to him too, to do it in a LIVE scenario of 1.6 going to live servers. I.E. only 26 points roughly in each category to spend

The numbers he is posting don't sound all that unresaonable tho even if he does change the stats around. With the template build (so no martial knowledge / undaunted gear / crafted gear) I was able to pull off 8.2k dps with non pet builds and 9.2k ish pet build. 10k does sound very reasonable now (without ultimates) I would think. My test was also done with purely range skills (20m +) and ZoS is switching over (it appears) to melee range skills should be doing more damage then range skills, thus there are arguments to be made that DK's should deal more damage close range then we deal at long range. Although I do think Sorcs should have better/ more reliable close range skills to give us that option (as we also don't have as much synergy with stamina builds) this doesn't mean that we aren't going to be needed in raids as having range capabilities is always nice.

Emma_Overload · February 2015

Ancile wrote: »

You got high dps numbers on pve dumb mobs? So what?

It does not add anything to the discussion of sorc survivability, pvp dps, and broken mechanics. I can print some amazing numbers too if you give me enough non-reactive training dummies.

Agreed. I can do 9000 DPS against dumb Mammoths with my Stamina build Sorc and no crit pots, ultimates or gimmicks.... but that proves nothing when I can still get murdered by a pack of wasps in Craglorn!

If ZoS won't remove the infamous COOLDOWN on Critical Surge heals, they need to give us some other means for healing ourselves in the middle of intense combat.