cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »ezareth_ESO wrote: »Don't forget you crit for 20K with *3600 champion points* which includes a 24* damage buff to elemental damage as well as 25% bonus crit and likely around 40K magicka due to your champion point spent.
Well, I wasn't clear about it, but I didn't use a template character. I probably had about 50 CP spent. Martial Knowledge, Adroitness, Healer and a Master Resto Staff combined to give me something like 1800 spell damage. Then Mage light, bound armor and ?? to get 30k magicka. I had 20 stat points in health, rest in magicka.
Degeneration for the spell power buff, and the Might of the guild passive rounded out the self buffs. I *did* say optimized gear and skills. It probably also got the 10% from martial knowledge
nun_nonrb19_ESO wrote: »nun_nonrb19_ESO wrote: »Even if it was that you use only class abilities on one bar, that's 12% spell damage only. That stat is rediculously overvalued by people who really don't have an idea of how little extra damage/healing it provides.
I don't see any big nerfs and I personally think 15% decrease on damage shields is only fair. If you can crit damage shields that is a whole different matter.
Overall I don't see big nerfs (apart from critting shields maybe) and no mentionable buffs either.
I agree with you mostly, just wanted to comment on some issues you raise.
Well, the shield change is a PvP thing that effects all classes and was done because of how easy it is to stack shields in Cyro now. It will still be easy and that 15% won't hold back players that do it, it's just to bring it in line with the other 15% reductions to damage and the like from entering Cyrodiil.
As for buffs, the biggest changes they went into was trying to make caster sorcs a bit more powerful vs pet builds, which is why they increased the lightning splash dot to help long term dps and the reason they added the spell power increase b/c pets scale off of max magicka and won't get the increase with spell power, only sorc spells and staff abilities will get a benefit from that.
You complained about lack of constructive comments, but your reasoning about the usefulness of the lighting splash is as flawed as is the reasoning of the devs that thought it would help sorcs DPS. That skill is a joke, no one will use it as it's so avoidable just moving out of it since it's aoe is so small and even with the buff the damage is so low. You want to be taken serious then you need to give us good arguments and not pathetic excuses for pathetic buffs on a pathetic skill.
Sorry, but insults are pretty sad. - Insult, suggesting his comment was only insults and thus saying he's sad
Once you head down that road, you are getting desperate. - Insult, suggesting comments that don't agree with you and don't have numbers must be desperate
If you truly think they are "pathetic excuses" then maybe a rational discussion is a waste of time with you. - Insult, calling him a waste of time
The skill is not a joke, I wonder about your own ability if you cannot make use of it even now. - Insult, another wording for l2p
For a person trying to stay above insults, you seem pretty willing to use them.
I have no problem heading down that road if someone wants to, but be aware who jumped to insults first and started things down a less constructive path. Don't confuse that. (Also, me saying one part of his comment was an insult isn't dismissive of his entire comment, which is why I said more in response to his other stuff. edit: nor is saying a rational discussion with someone is a waste of time is saying that the person is a waste of time - and spinning the facts is a bit dishonest of you.)
Well, probably my wording was a bit too out of order but since sorcs have been hammered left and right with nerfs and useless skills it got on my nerves you coming in stating that it's great the buff they did to lightning splash and that our class is just great and all but most of us just don't appreciate all the nice things SoZ been doing for us. Sorry for the strong words, my anger is not with you. Still I can't really agree that you say lightning splash is a viable aoe but to each it's own.
There are some improvements still needed on sorcs, but this isn't the way to go about seeing them.nun_nonrb19_ESO wrote: »Even if it was that you use only class abilities on one bar, that's 12% spell damage only. That stat is rediculously overvalued by people who really don't have an idea of how little extra damage/healing it provides.
I don't see any big nerfs and I personally think 15% decrease on damage shields is only fair. If you can crit damage shields that is a whole different matter.
Overall I don't see big nerfs (apart from critting shields maybe) and no mentionable buffs either.
I agree with you mostly, just wanted to comment on some issues you raise.
Well, the shield change is a PvP thing that effects all classes and was done because of how easy it is to stack shields in Cyro now. It will still be easy and that 15% won't hold back players that do it, it's just to bring it in line with the other 15% reductions to damage and the like from entering Cyrodiil.
As for buffs, the biggest changes they went into was trying to make caster sorcs a bit more powerful vs pet builds, which is why they increased the lightning splash dot to help long term dps and the reason they added the spell power increase b/c pets scale off of max magicka and won't get the increase with spell power, only sorc spells and staff abilities will get a benefit from that.
You complained about lack of constructive comments, but your reasoning about the usefulness of the lighting splash is as flawed as is the reasoning of the devs that thought it would help sorcs DPS. That skill is a joke, no one will use it as it's so avoidable just moving out of it since it's aoe is so small and even with the buff the damage is so low. You want to be taken serious then you need to give us good arguments and not pathetic excuses for pathetic buffs on a pathetic skill.
Sorry, but insults are pretty sad. - Insult, suggesting his comment was only insults and thus saying he's sad
Once you head down that road, you are getting desperate. - Insult, suggesting comments that don't agree with you and don't have numbers must be desperate
If you truly think they are "pathetic excuses" then maybe a rational discussion is a waste of time with you. - Insult, calling him a waste of time
The skill is not a joke, I wonder about your own ability if you cannot make use of it even now. - Insult, another wording for l2p
For a person trying to stay above insults, you seem pretty willing to use them.
I have no problem heading down that road if someone wants to, but be aware who jumped to insults first and started things down a less constructive path.
*Cowers in fear of ever getting into some "insult" battle with a game forum warrior.*
Also, if you go back and read, many of us have already tried being constructive. Most of us have already posted the numbers. Most of us already discussed the math as to what xyz spell power increase would compare to dps. Most of us have already tried the civil routes.
Are we going to stop trying? Of course not. But you're waltzing in minutes after all of us in the sorc community have been pissed on and telling us it's rain. Just because you're buddy buddy with the devs, doesn't make us feel any better about being screwed.
There are some improvements still needed on sorcs, but this isn't the way to go about seeing them.nun_nonrb19_ESO wrote: »Even if it was that you use only class abilities on one bar, that's 12% spell damage only. That stat is rediculously overvalued by people who really don't have an idea of how little extra damage/healing it provides.
I don't see any big nerfs and I personally think 15% decrease on damage shields is only fair. If you can crit damage shields that is a whole different matter.
Overall I don't see big nerfs (apart from critting shields maybe) and no mentionable buffs either.
I agree with you mostly, just wanted to comment on some issues you raise.
Well, the shield change is a PvP thing that effects all classes and was done because of how easy it is to stack shields in Cyro now. It will still be easy and that 15% won't hold back players that do it, it's just to bring it in line with the other 15% reductions to damage and the like from entering Cyrodiil.
As for buffs, the biggest changes they went into was trying to make caster sorcs a bit more powerful vs pet builds, which is why they increased the lightning splash dot to help long term dps and the reason they added the spell power increase b/c pets scale off of max magicka and won't get the increase with spell power, only sorc spells and staff abilities will get a benefit from that.
You complained about lack of constructive comments, but your reasoning about the usefulness of the lighting splash is as flawed as is the reasoning of the devs that thought it would help sorcs DPS. That skill is a joke, no one will use it as it's so avoidable just moving out of it since it's aoe is so small and even with the buff the damage is so low. You want to be taken serious then you need to give us good arguments and not pathetic excuses for pathetic buffs on a pathetic skill.
Sorry, but insults are pretty sad. - Insult, suggesting his comment was only insults and thus saying he's sad
Once you head down that road, you are getting desperate. - Insult, suggesting comments that don't agree with you and don't have numbers must be desperate
If you truly think they are "pathetic excuses" then maybe a rational discussion is a waste of time with you. - Insult, calling him a waste of time
The skill is not a joke, I wonder about your own ability if you cannot make use of it even now. - Insult, another wording for l2p
For a person trying to stay above insults, you seem pretty willing to use them.
I have no problem heading down that road if someone wants to, but be aware who jumped to insults first and started things down a less constructive path.
*Cowers in fear of ever getting into some "insult" battle with a game forum warrior.*
Also, if you go back and read, many of us have already tried being constructive. Most of us have already posted the numbers. Most of us already discussed the math as to what xyz spell power increase would compare to dps. Most of us have already tried the civil routes.
Are we going to stop trying? Of course not. But you're waltzing in minutes after all of us in the sorc community have been pissed on and telling us it's rain. Just because you're buddy buddy with the devs, doesn't make us feel any better about being screwed.
No, that's not what I'm saying at all. I don't know if people that agree/disagree in these discussions get all lumped together, maybe there are things other posters have said that I'm catching flack for as well. idk
My main statement, before maybe getting derailed with bickering, was that I thought overload was a bit OP and needed a nerf, so didn't mind the change here (other than not seeing results in testing yet). And that I liked what they did to lightning splash and expert mage. That doesn't meant they don't need other adjustments, but like I said to someone else, I'd rather see them bring the costs down on the skills in the tree and keep the new expert mage power.
Even if it was that you use only class abilities on one bar, that's 12% spell damage only. That stat is rediculously overvalued by people who really don't have an idea of how little extra damage/healing it provides.
I don't see any big nerfs and I personally think 15% decrease on damage shields is only fair. If you can crit damage shields that is a whole different matter.
Overall I don't see big nerfs (apart from critting shields maybe) and no mentionable buffs either.
I agree with you mostly, just wanted to comment on some issues you raise.
Well, the shield change is a PvP thing that effects all classes and was done because of how easy it is to stack shields in Cyro now. It will still be easy and that 15% won't hold back players that do it, it's just to bring it in line with the other 15% reductions to damage and the like from entering Cyrodiil.
As for buffs, the biggest changes they went into was trying to make caster sorcs a bit more powerful vs pet builds, which is why they increased the lightning splash dot to help long term dps and the reason they added the spell power increase b/c pets scale off of max magicka and won't get the increase with spell power, only sorc spells and staff abilities will get a benefit from that.
Must be people like you who the devs talk to, because all we have been getting lately is crap like this.
When did anyone of us ask for stronger builds against pets? Seriously?
The strongest pets in-game, I guess, are the dev pets that feed them useless class information.
david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »Why do they keep foisting Lightning Splash on us like it is the salvation to the Sorcerer class? It's just not that good a skill...
Increase the radius and damage maybe... until then, sorry, it is nowhere near the salvation of the class.
There are some improvements still needed on sorcs, but this isn't the way to go about seeing them.nun_nonrb19_ESO wrote: »Even if it was that you use only class abilities on one bar, that's 12% spell damage only. That stat is rediculously overvalued by people who really don't have an idea of how little extra damage/healing it provides.
I don't see any big nerfs and I personally think 15% decrease on damage shields is only fair. If you can crit damage shields that is a whole different matter.
Overall I don't see big nerfs (apart from critting shields maybe) and no mentionable buffs either.
I agree with you mostly, just wanted to comment on some issues you raise.
Well, the shield change is a PvP thing that effects all classes and was done because of how easy it is to stack shields in Cyro now. It will still be easy and that 15% won't hold back players that do it, it's just to bring it in line with the other 15% reductions to damage and the like from entering Cyrodiil.
As for buffs, the biggest changes they went into was trying to make caster sorcs a bit more powerful vs pet builds, which is why they increased the lightning splash dot to help long term dps and the reason they added the spell power increase b/c pets scale off of max magicka and won't get the increase with spell power, only sorc spells and staff abilities will get a benefit from that.
You complained about lack of constructive comments, but your reasoning about the usefulness of the lighting splash is as flawed as is the reasoning of the devs that thought it would help sorcs DPS. That skill is a joke, no one will use it as it's so avoidable just moving out of it since it's aoe is so small and even with the buff the damage is so low. You want to be taken serious then you need to give us good arguments and not pathetic excuses for pathetic buffs on a pathetic skill.
Sorry, but insults are pretty sad. - Insult, suggesting his comment was only insults and thus saying he's sad
Once you head down that road, you are getting desperate. - Insult, suggesting comments that don't agree with you and don't have numbers must be desperate
If you truly think they are "pathetic excuses" then maybe a rational discussion is a waste of time with you. - Insult, calling him a waste of time
The skill is not a joke, I wonder about your own ability if you cannot make use of it even now. - Insult, another wording for l2p
For a person trying to stay above insults, you seem pretty willing to use them.
I have no problem heading down that road if someone wants to, but be aware who jumped to insults first and started things down a less constructive path.
*Cowers in fear of ever getting into some "insult" battle with a game forum warrior.*
Also, if you go back and read, many of us have already tried being constructive. Most of us have already posted the numbers. Most of us already discussed the math as to what xyz spell power increase would compare to dps. Most of us have already tried the civil routes.
Are we going to stop trying? Of course not. But you're waltzing in minutes after all of us in the sorc community have been pissed on and telling us it's rain. Just because you're buddy buddy with the devs, doesn't make us feel any better about being screwed.
No, that's not what I'm saying at all. I don't know if people that agree/disagree in these discussions get all lumped together, maybe there are things other posters have said that I'm catching flack for as well. idk
My main statement, before maybe getting derailed with bickering, was that I thought overload was a bit OP and needed a nerf, so didn't mind the change here (other than not seeing results in testing yet). And that I liked what they did to lightning splash and expert mage. That doesn't meant they don't need other adjustments, but like I said to someone else, I'd rather see them bring the costs down on the skills in the tree and keep the new expert mage power.
You have now made multiple posts in multiple sorc threads talking about you're glad overload is nerfed, when your whole view on overload may be wrong because it is based on your friend doing more DPS than you when the skill was weavable. The ability to use instant casts with weaved overload light attacks was removed in 1.6.1. I'm not saying overload isn't strong still, but you should really do the tests yourself and do them on the current PTS build (and I'm talking during 1.6.1 here, not 1.6.3) before offering your opinion every place you can.
Confirmed shards still do not proc on Streak and Encase.
I'm going to go ahead and assume this is a ninja nerf boys, not a bug. I'm really not liking ZOS right now.
We have last hope.Spelllcraft=exclusive for sorcFor all the sorcs out there who feel sad after another nerf day:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMqMzhqkOLA
It's time to give up.
3 factions. 3 constellations. 3 classes.
nun_nonrb19_ESO wrote: »nun_nonrb19_ESO wrote: »Even if it was that you use only class abilities on one bar, that's 12% spell damage only. That stat is rediculously overvalued by people who really don't have an idea of how little extra damage/healing it provides.
I don't see any big nerfs and I personally think 15% decrease on damage shields is only fair. If you can crit damage shields that is a whole different matter.
Overall I don't see big nerfs (apart from critting shields maybe) and no mentionable buffs either.
I agree with you mostly, just wanted to comment on some issues you raise.
Well, the shield change is a PvP thing that effects all classes and was done because of how easy it is to stack shields in Cyro now. It will still be easy and that 15% won't hold back players that do it, it's just to bring it in line with the other 15% reductions to damage and the like from entering Cyrodiil.
As for buffs, the biggest changes they went into was trying to make caster sorcs a bit more powerful vs pet builds, which is why they increased the lightning splash dot to help long term dps and the reason they added the spell power increase b/c pets scale off of max magicka and won't get the increase with spell power, only sorc spells and staff abilities will get a benefit from that.
You complained about lack of constructive comments, but your reasoning about the usefulness of the lighting splash is as flawed as is the reasoning of the devs that thought it would help sorcs DPS. That skill is a joke, no one will use it as it's so avoidable just moving out of it since it's aoe is so small and even with the buff the damage is so low. You want to be taken serious then you need to give us good arguments and not pathetic excuses for pathetic buffs on a pathetic skill.
Sorry, but insults are pretty sad. - Insult, suggesting his comment was only insults and thus saying he's sad
Once you head down that road, you are getting desperate. - Insult, suggesting comments that don't agree with you and don't have numbers must be desperate
If you truly think they are "pathetic excuses" then maybe a rational discussion is a waste of time with you. - Insult, calling him a waste of time
The skill is not a joke, I wonder about your own ability if you cannot make use of it even now. - Insult, another wording for l2p
For a person trying to stay above insults, you seem pretty willing to use them.
I have no problem heading down that road if someone wants to, but be aware who jumped to insults first and started things down a less constructive path. Don't confuse that. (Also, me saying one part of his comment was an insult isn't dismissive of his entire comment, which is why I said more in response to his other stuff. edit: nor is saying a rational discussion with someone is a waste of time is saying that the person is a waste of time - and spinning the facts is a bit dishonest of you.)
Well, probably my wording was a bit too out of order but since sorcs have been hammered left and right with nerfs and useless skills it got on my nerves you coming in stating that it's great the buff they did to lightning splash and that our class is just great and all but most of us just don't appreciate all the nice things SoZ been doing for us. Sorry for the strong words, my anger is not with you. Still I can't really agree that you say lightning splash is a viable aoe but to each it's own.
As for Expert Mage, I do love the change here. I think having a passive like that is something unique to a sorc, giving them a boost to all damage. Now, that doesn't mean they don't need to adjust cost of abilities overall, but I'd rather see them bring down costs of some storm powers than just get rid of this new passive.
nun_nonrb19_ESO wrote: »nun_nonrb19_ESO wrote: »Even if it was that you use only class abilities on one bar, that's 12% spell damage only. That stat is rediculously overvalued by people who really don't have an idea of how little extra damage/healing it provides.
I don't see any big nerfs and I personally think 15% decrease on damage shields is only fair. If you can crit damage shields that is a whole different matter.
Overall I don't see big nerfs (apart from critting shields maybe) and no mentionable buffs either.
I agree with you mostly, just wanted to comment on some issues you raise.
Well, the shield change is a PvP thing that effects all classes and was done because of how easy it is to stack shields in Cyro now. It will still be easy and that 15% won't hold back players that do it, it's just to bring it in line with the other 15% reductions to damage and the like from entering Cyrodiil.
As for buffs, the biggest changes they went into was trying to make caster sorcs a bit more powerful vs pet builds, which is why they increased the lightning splash dot to help long term dps and the reason they added the spell power increase b/c pets scale off of max magicka and won't get the increase with spell power, only sorc spells and staff abilities will get a benefit from that.
You complained about lack of constructive comments, but your reasoning about the usefulness of the lighting splash is as flawed as is the reasoning of the devs that thought it would help sorcs DPS. That skill is a joke, no one will use it as it's so avoidable just moving out of it since it's aoe is so small and even with the buff the damage is so low. You want to be taken serious then you need to give us good arguments and not pathetic excuses for pathetic buffs on a pathetic skill.
Sorry, but insults are pretty sad. - Insult, suggesting his comment was only insults and thus saying he's sad
Once you head down that road, you are getting desperate. - Insult, suggesting comments that don't agree with you and don't have numbers must be desperate
If you truly think they are "pathetic excuses" then maybe a rational discussion is a waste of time with you. - Insult, calling him a waste of time
The skill is not a joke, I wonder about your own ability if you cannot make use of it even now. - Insult, another wording for l2p
For a person trying to stay above insults, you seem pretty willing to use them.
I have no problem heading down that road if someone wants to, but be aware who jumped to insults first and started things down a less constructive path. Don't confuse that. (Also, me saying one part of his comment was an insult isn't dismissive of his entire comment, which is why I said more in response to his other stuff. edit: nor is saying a rational discussion with someone is a waste of time is saying that the person is a waste of time - and spinning the facts is a bit dishonest of you.)
Well, probably my wording was a bit too out of order but since sorcs have been hammered left and right with nerfs and useless skills it got on my nerves you coming in stating that it's great the buff they did to lightning splash and that our class is just great and all but most of us just don't appreciate all the nice things SoZ been doing for us. Sorry for the strong words, my anger is not with you. Still I can't really agree that you say lightning splash is a viable aoe but to each it's own.
As for Expert Mage, I do love the change here. I think having a passive like that is something unique to a sorc, giving them a boost to all damage. Now, that doesn't mean they don't need to adjust cost of abilities overall, but I'd rather see them bring down costs of some storm powers than just get rid of this new passive.
You want rational discussion? Well, since you seemed to miss the tons of discussion we had on this subject all this week (as did all the ZOS devs obviously), I will edify you.
I created a new toon on pts with the template, put on template armor, and some points into magicka trait. I did not add food, mundus stone, new enchants, and/or any cp points. Below are the damage tooltips for WITH and WITHOUT the new passive buff:
That's right. 12% increased spell power correlates to about 3% damage increase in our hardest hitting skill!
Now I ask other sorcs (not NBs mains prancing as sorcs):
Which would you rather have? 10% cost reduction on some of your most used skills automatically? Or an increase in 3% damage at the cost of having to use ONLY sorc skills and ultimates?
@xaraan your argument that this is good is fail. Is this how low ER's knowledge base has fallen over the past year?
There are some improvements still needed on sorcs, but this isn't the way to go about seeing them.nun_nonrb19_ESO wrote: »Even if it was that you use only class abilities on one bar, that's 12% spell damage only. That stat is rediculously overvalued by people who really don't have an idea of how little extra damage/healing it provides.
I don't see any big nerfs and I personally think 15% decrease on damage shields is only fair. If you can crit damage shields that is a whole different matter.
Overall I don't see big nerfs (apart from critting shields maybe) and no mentionable buffs either.
I agree with you mostly, just wanted to comment on some issues you raise.
Well, the shield change is a PvP thing that effects all classes and was done because of how easy it is to stack shields in Cyro now. It will still be easy and that 15% won't hold back players that do it, it's just to bring it in line with the other 15% reductions to damage and the like from entering Cyrodiil.
As for buffs, the biggest changes they went into was trying to make caster sorcs a bit more powerful vs pet builds, which is why they increased the lightning splash dot to help long term dps and the reason they added the spell power increase b/c pets scale off of max magicka and won't get the increase with spell power, only sorc spells and staff abilities will get a benefit from that.
You complained about lack of constructive comments, but your reasoning about the usefulness of the lighting splash is as flawed as is the reasoning of the devs that thought it would help sorcs DPS. That skill is a joke, no one will use it as it's so avoidable just moving out of it since it's aoe is so small and even with the buff the damage is so low. You want to be taken serious then you need to give us good arguments and not pathetic excuses for pathetic buffs on a pathetic skill.
Sorry, but insults are pretty sad. - Insult, suggesting his comment was only insults and thus saying he's sad
Once you head down that road, you are getting desperate. - Insult, suggesting comments that don't agree with you and don't have numbers must be desperate
If you truly think they are "pathetic excuses" then maybe a rational discussion is a waste of time with you. - Insult, calling him a waste of time
The skill is not a joke, I wonder about your own ability if you cannot make use of it even now. - Insult, another wording for l2p
For a person trying to stay above insults, you seem pretty willing to use them.
I have no problem heading down that road if someone wants to, but be aware who jumped to insults first and started things down a less constructive path.
*Cowers in fear of ever getting into some "insult" battle with a game forum warrior.*
Also, if you go back and read, many of us have already tried being constructive. Most of us have already posted the numbers. Most of us already discussed the math as to what xyz spell power increase would compare to dps. Most of us have already tried the civil routes.
Are we going to stop trying? Of course not. But you're waltzing in minutes after all of us in the sorc community have been pissed on and telling us it's rain. Just because you're buddy buddy with the devs, doesn't make us feel any better about being screwed.
No, that's not what I'm saying at all. I don't know if people that agree/disagree in these discussions get all lumped together, maybe there are things other posters have said that I'm catching flack for as well. idk
My main statement, before maybe getting derailed with bickering, was that I thought overload was a bit OP and needed a nerf, so didn't mind the change here (other than not seeing results in testing yet). And that I liked what they did to lightning splash and expert mage. That doesn't meant they don't need other adjustments, but like I said to someone else, I'd rather see them bring the costs down on the skills in the tree and keep the new expert mage power.
You have now made multiple posts in multiple sorc threads talking about you're glad overload is nerfed, when your whole view on overload may be wrong because it is based on your friend doing more DPS than you when the skill was weavable. The ability to use instant casts with weaved overload light attacks was removed in 1.6.1. I'm not saying overload isn't strong still, but you should really do the tests yourself and do them on the current PTS build (and I'm talking during 1.6.1 here, not 1.6.3) before offering your opinion every place you can.
It's great to use that to throw insults at me, but it also doesn't really change the point that the power is OP because whether or not my description is correct, the numbers in the end were what I was making my judgement on.
Most of the changes are for the better IMO.
Overload is way OP, some just aren't using it effectively to see how OP it can be.
Lightning Splash lasting longer and being a better DoT is a good thing. As is increasing spell damage for Expert Mage, I'd rather have that than a little more cost reduction. I can see how a stam sorc might not like it, but realistically a bonus like that should be more helpful to a caster than a stam user IMO, they have plenty of tools for doing damage already and have a different resource to worry about.
Sorc isn't your main, eh? I care less about my alts being nerfed too.
Attorneyatlawl wrote: »Most of the changes are for the better IMO.
Overload is way OP, some just aren't using it effectively to see how OP it can be.
Lightning Splash lasting longer and being a better DoT is a good thing. As is increasing spell damage for Expert Mage, I'd rather have that than a little more cost reduction. I can see how a stam sorc might not like it, but realistically a bonus like that should be more helpful to a caster than a stam user IMO, they have plenty of tools for doing damage already and have a different resource to worry about.
Sorc isn't your main, eh? I care less about my alts being nerfed too.
Sorc is becoming my new PVP main as of 1.6. DK is getting shelved. Come back a month post-1.6 hitting live and you'll know why.
Attorneyatlawl wrote: »Most of the changes are for the better IMO.
Overload is way OP, some just aren't using it effectively to see how OP it can be.
Lightning Splash lasting longer and being a better DoT is a good thing. As is increasing spell damage for Expert Mage, I'd rather have that than a little more cost reduction. I can see how a stam sorc might not like it, but realistically a bonus like that should be more helpful to a caster than a stam user IMO, they have plenty of tools for doing damage already and have a different resource to worry about.
Sorc isn't your main, eh? I care less about my alts being nerfed too.
Sorc is becoming my new PVP main as of 1.6. DK is getting shelved. Come back a month post-1.6 hitting live and you'll know why.
I'm not worried for PVP sorcerers, they benefit from good crowd control and mobility skills and should do just fine as usual.
From a PVE perspective, sorcerers are inferior to any other class. That's what I'm concerned about.
Attorneyatlawl wrote: »Most of the changes are for the better IMO.
Overload is way OP, some just aren't using it effectively to see how OP it can be.
Lightning Splash lasting longer and being a better DoT is a good thing. As is increasing spell damage for Expert Mage, I'd rather have that than a little more cost reduction. I can see how a stam sorc might not like it, but realistically a bonus like that should be more helpful to a caster than a stam user IMO, they have plenty of tools for doing damage already and have a different resource to worry about.
Sorc isn't your main, eh? I care less about my alts being nerfed too.
Sorc is becoming my new PVP main as of 1.6. DK is getting shelved. Come back a month post-1.6 hitting live and you'll know why.
I'm not worried for PVP sorcerers, they benefit from good crowd control and mobility skills and should do just fine as usual.
From a PVE perspective, sorcerers are inferior to any other class. That's what I'm concerned about.
That's not true. Sorcs are doing more DPS (on a long fight, not a 15 second burst fight) than NBs. At least in all our tests with multiple players.
Attorneyatlawl wrote: »Most of the changes are for the better IMO.
Overload is way OP, some just aren't using it effectively to see how OP it can be.
Lightning Splash lasting longer and being a better DoT is a good thing. As is increasing spell damage for Expert Mage, I'd rather have that than a little more cost reduction. I can see how a stam sorc might not like it, but realistically a bonus like that should be more helpful to a caster than a stam user IMO, they have plenty of tools for doing damage already and have a different resource to worry about.
Sorc isn't your main, eh? I care less about my alts being nerfed too.
Sorc is becoming my new PVP main as of 1.6. DK is getting shelved. Come back a month post-1.6 hitting live and you'll know why.
I'm not worried for PVP sorcerers, they benefit from good crowd control and mobility skills and should do just fine as usual.
From a PVE perspective, sorcerers are inferior to any other class. That's what I'm concerned about.
That's not true. Sorcs are doing more DPS (on a long fight, not a 15 second burst fight) than NBs. At least in all our tests with multiple players.
I have not tested NBs on the PTS but I'd love to see DPS reports of various players using optimal builds on the same mobs in ultimate-less rotations if you have some.Attorneyatlawl wrote: »Most of the changes are for the better IMO.
Overload is way OP, some just aren't using it effectively to see how OP it can be.
Lightning Splash lasting longer and being a better DoT is a good thing. As is increasing spell damage for Expert Mage, I'd rather have that than a little more cost reduction. I can see how a stam sorc might not like it, but realistically a bonus like that should be more helpful to a caster than a stam user IMO, they have plenty of tools for doing damage already and have a different resource to worry about.
Sorc isn't your main, eh? I care less about my alts being nerfed too.
Sorc is becoming my new PVP main as of 1.6. DK is getting shelved. Come back a month post-1.6 hitting live and you'll know why.
I'm not worried for PVP sorcerers, they benefit from good crowd control and mobility skills and should do just fine as usual.
From a PVE perspective, sorcerers are inferior to any other class. That's what I'm concerned about.
That's not true. Sorcs are doing more DPS (on a long fight, not a 15 second burst fight) than NBs. At least in all our tests with multiple players.
I have tested my Sorcerer against my Templar and the Sorc is clearly weaker.
I have not tested NBs on the PTS but I'd love to see DPS reports of various players using optimal builds on the same mobs in ultimate-less rotations if you have some.
That's not true. Sorcs are doing more DPS (on a long fight, not a 15 second burst fight) than NBs. At least in all our tests with multiple players.
Attorneyatlawl wrote: »Most of the changes are for the better IMO.
Overload is way OP, some just aren't using it effectively to see how OP it can be.
Lightning Splash lasting longer and being a better DoT is a good thing. As is increasing spell damage for Expert Mage, I'd rather have that than a little more cost reduction. I can see how a stam sorc might not like it, but realistically a bonus like that should be more helpful to a caster than a stam user IMO, they have plenty of tools for doing damage already and have a different resource to worry about.
Sorc isn't your main, eh? I care less about my alts being nerfed too.
Sorc is becoming my new PVP main as of 1.6. DK is getting shelved. Come back a month post-1.6 hitting live and you'll know why.
I'm not worried for PVP sorcerers, they benefit from good crowd control and mobility skills and should do just fine as usual.
From a PVE perspective, sorcerers are inferior to any other class. That's what I'm concerned about.
That's not true. Sorcs are doing more DPS (on a long fight, not a 15 second burst fight) than NBs. At least in all our tests with multiple players.
Is this relying solely on using Overload or do they out dps you while not using Overload too? Serious question.
There are some improvements still needed on sorcs, but this isn't the way to go about seeing them.nun_nonrb19_ESO wrote: »Even if it was that you use only class abilities on one bar, that's 12% spell damage only. That stat is rediculously overvalued by people who really don't have an idea of how little extra damage/healing it provides.
I don't see any big nerfs and I personally think 15% decrease on damage shields is only fair. If you can crit damage shields that is a whole different matter.
Overall I don't see big nerfs (apart from critting shields maybe) and no mentionable buffs either.
I agree with you mostly, just wanted to comment on some issues you raise.
Well, the shield change is a PvP thing that effects all classes and was done because of how easy it is to stack shields in Cyro now. It will still be easy and that 15% won't hold back players that do it, it's just to bring it in line with the other 15% reductions to damage and the like from entering Cyrodiil.
As for buffs, the biggest changes they went into was trying to make caster sorcs a bit more powerful vs pet builds, which is why they increased the lightning splash dot to help long term dps and the reason they added the spell power increase b/c pets scale off of max magicka and won't get the increase with spell power, only sorc spells and staff abilities will get a benefit from that.
You complained about lack of constructive comments, but your reasoning about the usefulness of the lighting splash is as flawed as is the reasoning of the devs that thought it would help sorcs DPS. That skill is a joke, no one will use it as it's so avoidable just moving out of it since it's aoe is so small and even with the buff the damage is so low. You want to be taken serious then you need to give us good arguments and not pathetic excuses for pathetic buffs on a pathetic skill.
Sorry, but insults are pretty sad. - Insult, suggesting his comment was only insults and thus saying he's sad
Once you head down that road, you are getting desperate. - Insult, suggesting comments that don't agree with you and don't have numbers must be desperate
If you truly think they are "pathetic excuses" then maybe a rational discussion is a waste of time with you. - Insult, calling him a waste of time
The skill is not a joke, I wonder about your own ability if you cannot make use of it even now. - Insult, another wording for l2p
For a person trying to stay above insults, you seem pretty willing to use them.
I have no problem heading down that road if someone wants to, but be aware who jumped to insults first and started things down a less constructive path.
*Cowers in fear of ever getting into some "insult" battle with a game forum warrior.*
Also, if you go back and read, many of us have already tried being constructive. Most of us have already posted the numbers. Most of us already discussed the math as to what xyz spell power increase would compare to dps. Most of us have already tried the civil routes.
Are we going to stop trying? Of course not. But you're waltzing in minutes after all of us in the sorc community have been pissed on and telling us it's rain. Just because you're buddy buddy with the devs, doesn't make us feel any better about being screwed.
No, that's not what I'm saying at all. I don't know if people that agree/disagree in these discussions get all lumped together, maybe there are things other posters have said that I'm catching flack for as well. idk
My main statement, before maybe getting derailed with bickering, was that I thought overload was a bit OP and needed a nerf, so didn't mind the change here (other than not seeing results in testing yet). And that I liked what they did to lightning splash and expert mage. That doesn't meant they don't need other adjustments, but like I said to someone else, I'd rather see them bring the costs down on the skills in the tree and keep the new expert mage power.
You have now made multiple posts in multiple sorc threads talking about you're glad overload is nerfed, when your whole view on overload may be wrong because it is based on your friend doing more DPS than you when the skill was weavable. The ability to use instant casts with weaved overload light attacks was removed in 1.6.1. I'm not saying overload isn't strong still, but you should really do the tests yourself and do them on the current PTS build (and I'm talking during 1.6.1 here, not 1.6.3) before offering your opinion every place you can.
Not exactly. It was based on him doing more DPS than everyone in our testing (not just me). That happened regardless of whether he was weaving or not. I assumed he was still light attack weaving, but he did do this in the last patch (not 1.6.3) so I assumed wrong, that doesn't mean his numbers were not still where they were. (Actually, I'm even more surprised at the numbers with this). So yeah, it's a bit OP. Other sorc players have even agreed in thread and said that it shouldn't regenerate it's own ultimate, so it's not like I'm the lone voice here. Sure, I assumed wrong. It's great to use that to throw insults at me, but it also doesn't really change the point that the power is OP because whether or not my description is correct, the numbers in the end were what I was making my judgement on.
It also doesn't meant he other stuff, things like Lightning Splash that I do run on my sorc all the time, is off base either. I like the change there. Maybe it's because it plays into how I use it, but that's still a consideration as it sounds like a power that is meant to be a DoT and not a spammable AoE (for max damage).
I also like what they are doing with Expert Mage. I don't know if it should be stronger as I haven't been on 1.6.3 yet, but I do like that direction. Much rather see costs come down on a couple powers and keep the new version of expert mage.