Maintenance for the week of November 25:
• [COMPLETE] Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – November 27, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC)
• [COMPLETE] PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – November 27, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC)

Patch 1.6.3 MORE SORC NERFS

  • Ezareth
    Ezareth
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Don't forget you crit for 20K with *3600 champion points* which includes a 24* damage buff to elemental damage as well as 25% bonus crit and likely around 40K magicka due to your champion point spent.

    Well, I wasn't clear about it, but I didn't use a template character. I probably had about 50 CP spent. Martial Knowledge, Adroitness, Healer and a Master Resto Staff combined to give me something like 1800 spell damage. Then Mage light, bound armor and ?? to get 30k magicka. I had 20 stat points in health, rest in magicka.

    Degeneration for the spell power buff, and the Might of the guild passive rounded out the self buffs. I *did* say optimized gear and skills. It probably also got the 10% from martial knowledge

    I don't see how you're criting for 20K then. My largest crit with 3600 CP, 43K Magicka, was around 24K which when compared to some of the crits other classes and abilities were sporting was pretty lackluster.
    Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
    Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
    Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
    Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
    Ezareth PvP on Youtube
  • david.haypreub18_ESO
    david.haypreub18_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Why do they keep foisting Lightning Splash on us like it is the salvation to the Sorcerer class? It's just not that good a skill...

    Increase the radius and damage maybe... until then, sorry, it is nowhere near the salvation of the class.
    Templars are 'just slower... by design'
    Yes, Gina actually said that (at least regarding Rushed Ceremony) right here:
    http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/161959/templar-skills-bugged-made-useless-ignored/p24
    VR 16 Templar (retired until Templars get fixed)
    VR 16 Sorcerer
    38 Nightblade
    24 DK
  • xaraan
    xaraan
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    xaraan wrote: »
    Vis wrote: »
    xaraan wrote: »
    xaraan wrote: »
    ToRelax wrote: »
    Even if it was that you use only class abilities on one bar, that's 12% spell damage only. That stat is rediculously overvalued by people who really don't have an idea of how little extra damage/healing it provides.

    I don't see any big nerfs and I personally think 15% decrease on damage shields is only fair. If you can crit damage shields that is a whole different matter.

    Overall I don't see big nerfs (apart from critting shields maybe) and no mentionable buffs either.

    I agree with you mostly, just wanted to comment on some issues you raise.

    Well, the shield change is a PvP thing that effects all classes and was done because of how easy it is to stack shields in Cyro now. It will still be easy and that 15% won't hold back players that do it, it's just to bring it in line with the other 15% reductions to damage and the like from entering Cyrodiil.

    As for buffs, the biggest changes they went into was trying to make caster sorcs a bit more powerful vs pet builds, which is why they increased the lightning splash dot to help long term dps and the reason they added the spell power increase b/c pets scale off of max magicka and won't get the increase with spell power, only sorc spells and staff abilities will get a benefit from that.

    You complained about lack of constructive comments, but your reasoning about the usefulness of the lighting splash is as flawed as is the reasoning of the devs that thought it would help sorcs DPS. That skill is a joke, no one will use it as it's so avoidable just moving out of it since it's aoe is so small and even with the buff the damage is so low. You want to be taken serious then you need to give us good arguments and not pathetic excuses for pathetic buffs on a pathetic skill.

    Sorry, but insults are pretty sad. - Insult, suggesting his comment was only insults and thus saying he's sad

    Once you head down that road, you are getting desperate. - Insult, suggesting comments that don't agree with you and don't have numbers must be desperate

    If you truly think they are "pathetic excuses" then maybe a rational discussion is a waste of time with you. - Insult, calling him a waste of time

    The skill is not a joke, I wonder about your own ability if you cannot make use of it even now. - Insult, another wording for l2p

    For a person trying to stay above insults, you seem pretty willing to use them.

    I have no problem heading down that road if someone wants to, but be aware who jumped to insults first and started things down a less constructive path. Don't confuse that. (Also, me saying one part of his comment was an insult isn't dismissive of his entire comment, which is why I said more in response to his other stuff. edit: nor is saying a rational discussion with someone is a waste of time is saying that the person is a waste of time - and spinning the facts is a bit dishonest of you.)

    Well, probably my wording was a bit too out of order but since sorcs have been hammered left and right with nerfs and useless skills it got on my nerves you coming in stating that it's great the buff they did to lightning splash and that our class is just great and all but most of us just don't appreciate all the nice things SoZ been doing for us. Sorry for the strong words, my anger is not with you. Still I can't really agree that you say lightning splash is a viable aoe but to each it's own.

    I completely understand, I'm pretty used to various reactions here on the forums and I know people get heated on their classes. I don't expect everyone to agree with me either.

    Yes, I do think the overload was a nerf. But I think overload was a bit too overpowered as it was. We'll have to see how it plays out in testing as nobody from our guild has obviously tested the patch that just rolled out today.

    As for Lightning Splash, I don't view it as a viable aoe like impulse or something you would spam, just as a decent dot to throw down while I'm doing other attacks. Maybe the changes they have made line up with how I use it so that's why I am happy with it.

    As for Expert Mage, I do love the change here. I think having a passive like that is something unique to a sorc, giving them a boost to all damage. Now, that doesn't mean they don't need to adjust cost of abilities overall, but I'd rather see them bring down costs of some storm powers than just get rid of this new passive.

    Seems to me though, if people come at ZoS hard, completely overlooking how a change can be beneficial and just trash it as a nerf period, then they have a good chance of having their comments overlooked. I mean, it's completely different hearing someone say all of those changes are nerfs (when they are not) vs. someone saying, hey, I like this Expert Mage change idea ZoS, I see what you are doing and like the direction but now Storm Calling powers are too costly and should be brought down a bit to make up for that change.

    -- @xaraan --
    nightblade: Xaraan templar: Xaraan-dar dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus necromancer: Xaraan-qa warden: Xaraanodon sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
    AD • NA • PC
  • xaraan
    xaraan
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Vis wrote: »
    xaraan wrote: »
    Vis wrote: »
    xaraan wrote: »
    Vis wrote: »
    xaraan wrote: »
    xaraan wrote: »
    ToRelax wrote: »
    Even if it was that you use only class abilities on one bar, that's 12% spell damage only. That stat is rediculously overvalued by people who really don't have an idea of how little extra damage/healing it provides.

    I don't see any big nerfs and I personally think 15% decrease on damage shields is only fair. If you can crit damage shields that is a whole different matter.

    Overall I don't see big nerfs (apart from critting shields maybe) and no mentionable buffs either.

    I agree with you mostly, just wanted to comment on some issues you raise.

    Well, the shield change is a PvP thing that effects all classes and was done because of how easy it is to stack shields in Cyro now. It will still be easy and that 15% won't hold back players that do it, it's just to bring it in line with the other 15% reductions to damage and the like from entering Cyrodiil.

    As for buffs, the biggest changes they went into was trying to make caster sorcs a bit more powerful vs pet builds, which is why they increased the lightning splash dot to help long term dps and the reason they added the spell power increase b/c pets scale off of max magicka and won't get the increase with spell power, only sorc spells and staff abilities will get a benefit from that.

    You complained about lack of constructive comments, but your reasoning about the usefulness of the lighting splash is as flawed as is the reasoning of the devs that thought it would help sorcs DPS. That skill is a joke, no one will use it as it's so avoidable just moving out of it since it's aoe is so small and even with the buff the damage is so low. You want to be taken serious then you need to give us good arguments and not pathetic excuses for pathetic buffs on a pathetic skill.

    Sorry, but insults are pretty sad. - Insult, suggesting his comment was only insults and thus saying he's sad

    Once you head down that road, you are getting desperate. - Insult, suggesting comments that don't agree with you and don't have numbers must be desperate

    If you truly think they are "pathetic excuses" then maybe a rational discussion is a waste of time with you. - Insult, calling him a waste of time

    The skill is not a joke, I wonder about your own ability if you cannot make use of it even now. - Insult, another wording for l2p

    For a person trying to stay above insults, you seem pretty willing to use them.

    I have no problem heading down that road if someone wants to, but be aware who jumped to insults first and started things down a less constructive path.

    *Cowers in fear of ever getting into some "insult" battle with a game forum warrior.*
    There are some improvements still needed on sorcs, but this isn't the way to go about seeing them.

    Also, if you go back and read, many of us have already tried being constructive. Most of us have already posted the numbers. Most of us already discussed the math as to what xyz spell power increase would compare to dps. Most of us have already tried the civil routes.

    Are we going to stop trying? Of course not. But you're waltzing in minutes after all of us in the sorc community have been pissed on and telling us it's rain. Just because you're buddy buddy with the devs, doesn't make us feel any better about being screwed.

    No, that's not what I'm saying at all. I don't know if people that agree/disagree in these discussions get all lumped together, maybe there are things other posters have said that I'm catching flack for as well. idk

    My main statement, before maybe getting derailed with bickering, was that I thought overload was a bit OP and needed a nerf, so didn't mind the change here (other than not seeing results in testing yet). And that I liked what they did to lightning splash and expert mage. That doesn't meant they don't need other adjustments, but like I said to someone else, I'd rather see them bring the costs down on the skills in the tree and keep the new expert mage power.
    -- @xaraan --
    nightblade: Xaraan templar: Xaraan-dar dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus necromancer: Xaraan-qa warden: Xaraanodon sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
    AD • NA • PC
  • Erock25
    Erock25
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    xaraan wrote: »
    Vis wrote: »
    xaraan wrote: »
    Vis wrote: »
    xaraan wrote: »
    Vis wrote: »
    xaraan wrote: »
    xaraan wrote: »
    ToRelax wrote: »
    Even if it was that you use only class abilities on one bar, that's 12% spell damage only. That stat is rediculously overvalued by people who really don't have an idea of how little extra damage/healing it provides.

    I don't see any big nerfs and I personally think 15% decrease on damage shields is only fair. If you can crit damage shields that is a whole different matter.

    Overall I don't see big nerfs (apart from critting shields maybe) and no mentionable buffs either.

    I agree with you mostly, just wanted to comment on some issues you raise.

    Well, the shield change is a PvP thing that effects all classes and was done because of how easy it is to stack shields in Cyro now. It will still be easy and that 15% won't hold back players that do it, it's just to bring it in line with the other 15% reductions to damage and the like from entering Cyrodiil.

    As for buffs, the biggest changes they went into was trying to make caster sorcs a bit more powerful vs pet builds, which is why they increased the lightning splash dot to help long term dps and the reason they added the spell power increase b/c pets scale off of max magicka and won't get the increase with spell power, only sorc spells and staff abilities will get a benefit from that.

    You complained about lack of constructive comments, but your reasoning about the usefulness of the lighting splash is as flawed as is the reasoning of the devs that thought it would help sorcs DPS. That skill is a joke, no one will use it as it's so avoidable just moving out of it since it's aoe is so small and even with the buff the damage is so low. You want to be taken serious then you need to give us good arguments and not pathetic excuses for pathetic buffs on a pathetic skill.

    Sorry, but insults are pretty sad. - Insult, suggesting his comment was only insults and thus saying he's sad

    Once you head down that road, you are getting desperate. - Insult, suggesting comments that don't agree with you and don't have numbers must be desperate

    If you truly think they are "pathetic excuses" then maybe a rational discussion is a waste of time with you. - Insult, calling him a waste of time

    The skill is not a joke, I wonder about your own ability if you cannot make use of it even now. - Insult, another wording for l2p

    For a person trying to stay above insults, you seem pretty willing to use them.

    I have no problem heading down that road if someone wants to, but be aware who jumped to insults first and started things down a less constructive path.

    *Cowers in fear of ever getting into some "insult" battle with a game forum warrior.*
    There are some improvements still needed on sorcs, but this isn't the way to go about seeing them.

    Also, if you go back and read, many of us have already tried being constructive. Most of us have already posted the numbers. Most of us already discussed the math as to what xyz spell power increase would compare to dps. Most of us have already tried the civil routes.

    Are we going to stop trying? Of course not. But you're waltzing in minutes after all of us in the sorc community have been pissed on and telling us it's rain. Just because you're buddy buddy with the devs, doesn't make us feel any better about being screwed.

    No, that's not what I'm saying at all. I don't know if people that agree/disagree in these discussions get all lumped together, maybe there are things other posters have said that I'm catching flack for as well. idk

    My main statement, before maybe getting derailed with bickering, was that I thought overload was a bit OP and needed a nerf, so didn't mind the change here (other than not seeing results in testing yet). And that I liked what they did to lightning splash and expert mage. That doesn't meant they don't need other adjustments, but like I said to someone else, I'd rather see them bring the costs down on the skills in the tree and keep the new expert mage power.

    You have now made multiple posts in multiple sorc threads talking about you're glad overload is nerfed, when your whole view on overload may be wrong because it is based on your friend doing more DPS than you when the skill was weavable. The ability to use instant casts with weaved overload light attacks was removed in 1.6.1. I'm not saying overload isn't strong still, but you should really do the tests yourself and do them on the current PTS build (and I'm talking during 1.6.1 here, not 1.6.3) before offering your opinion every place you can.
    Edited by Erock25 on February 17, 2015 11:18PM
    You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
    You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points
  • Grao
    Grao
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Vis wrote: »
    xaraan wrote: »
    ToRelax wrote: »
    Even if it was that you use only class abilities on one bar, that's 12% spell damage only. That stat is rediculously overvalued by people who really don't have an idea of how little extra damage/healing it provides.

    I don't see any big nerfs and I personally think 15% decrease on damage shields is only fair. If you can crit damage shields that is a whole different matter.

    Overall I don't see big nerfs (apart from critting shields maybe) and no mentionable buffs either.

    I agree with you mostly, just wanted to comment on some issues you raise.

    Well, the shield change is a PvP thing that effects all classes and was done because of how easy it is to stack shields in Cyro now. It will still be easy and that 15% won't hold back players that do it, it's just to bring it in line with the other 15% reductions to damage and the like from entering Cyrodiil.

    As for buffs, the biggest changes they went into was trying to make caster sorcs a bit more powerful vs pet builds, which is why they increased the lightning splash dot to help long term dps and the reason they added the spell power increase b/c pets scale off of max magicka and won't get the increase with spell power, only sorc spells and staff abilities will get a benefit from that.

    Must be people like you who the devs talk to, because all we have been getting lately is crap like this.

    When did anyone of us ask for stronger builds against pets? Seriously?

    The strongest pets in-game, I guess, are the dev pets that feed them useless class information.

    It is people exactly like this guy that ZoS talks and listens to. Entropy Rising has been ZoS pet guild since the game was released, if not even before that.
    Edited by Grao on February 17, 2015 11:21PM
  • Gyudan
    Gyudan
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    For all the sorcs out there who feel sad after another nerf day:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMqMzhqkOLA

    It's time to give up.
    3 factions. 3 constellations. 3 classes.
    Wololo.
  • olsborg
    olsborg
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Its funny how they tried to camuflage another nerf to streak.

    PC EU
    PvP only
  • Holycannoli
    Holycannoli
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Why do they keep foisting Lightning Splash on us like it is the salvation to the Sorcerer class? It's just not that good a skill...

    Increase the radius and damage maybe... until then, sorry, it is nowhere near the salvation of the class.

    Of course it's our salvation. It's all the fix we need.

    Edited by Holycannoli on February 17, 2015 11:28PM
  • xaraan
    xaraan
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Erock25 wrote: »
    xaraan wrote: »
    Vis wrote: »
    xaraan wrote: »
    Vis wrote: »
    xaraan wrote: »
    Vis wrote: »
    xaraan wrote: »
    xaraan wrote: »
    ToRelax wrote: »
    Even if it was that you use only class abilities on one bar, that's 12% spell damage only. That stat is rediculously overvalued by people who really don't have an idea of how little extra damage/healing it provides.

    I don't see any big nerfs and I personally think 15% decrease on damage shields is only fair. If you can crit damage shields that is a whole different matter.

    Overall I don't see big nerfs (apart from critting shields maybe) and no mentionable buffs either.

    I agree with you mostly, just wanted to comment on some issues you raise.

    Well, the shield change is a PvP thing that effects all classes and was done because of how easy it is to stack shields in Cyro now. It will still be easy and that 15% won't hold back players that do it, it's just to bring it in line with the other 15% reductions to damage and the like from entering Cyrodiil.

    As for buffs, the biggest changes they went into was trying to make caster sorcs a bit more powerful vs pet builds, which is why they increased the lightning splash dot to help long term dps and the reason they added the spell power increase b/c pets scale off of max magicka and won't get the increase with spell power, only sorc spells and staff abilities will get a benefit from that.

    You complained about lack of constructive comments, but your reasoning about the usefulness of the lighting splash is as flawed as is the reasoning of the devs that thought it would help sorcs DPS. That skill is a joke, no one will use it as it's so avoidable just moving out of it since it's aoe is so small and even with the buff the damage is so low. You want to be taken serious then you need to give us good arguments and not pathetic excuses for pathetic buffs on a pathetic skill.

    Sorry, but insults are pretty sad. - Insult, suggesting his comment was only insults and thus saying he's sad

    Once you head down that road, you are getting desperate. - Insult, suggesting comments that don't agree with you and don't have numbers must be desperate

    If you truly think they are "pathetic excuses" then maybe a rational discussion is a waste of time with you. - Insult, calling him a waste of time

    The skill is not a joke, I wonder about your own ability if you cannot make use of it even now. - Insult, another wording for l2p

    For a person trying to stay above insults, you seem pretty willing to use them.

    I have no problem heading down that road if someone wants to, but be aware who jumped to insults first and started things down a less constructive path.

    *Cowers in fear of ever getting into some "insult" battle with a game forum warrior.*
    There are some improvements still needed on sorcs, but this isn't the way to go about seeing them.

    Also, if you go back and read, many of us have already tried being constructive. Most of us have already posted the numbers. Most of us already discussed the math as to what xyz spell power increase would compare to dps. Most of us have already tried the civil routes.

    Are we going to stop trying? Of course not. But you're waltzing in minutes after all of us in the sorc community have been pissed on and telling us it's rain. Just because you're buddy buddy with the devs, doesn't make us feel any better about being screwed.

    No, that's not what I'm saying at all. I don't know if people that agree/disagree in these discussions get all lumped together, maybe there are things other posters have said that I'm catching flack for as well. idk

    My main statement, before maybe getting derailed with bickering, was that I thought overload was a bit OP and needed a nerf, so didn't mind the change here (other than not seeing results in testing yet). And that I liked what they did to lightning splash and expert mage. That doesn't meant they don't need other adjustments, but like I said to someone else, I'd rather see them bring the costs down on the skills in the tree and keep the new expert mage power.

    You have now made multiple posts in multiple sorc threads talking about you're glad overload is nerfed, when your whole view on overload may be wrong because it is based on your friend doing more DPS than you when the skill was weavable. The ability to use instant casts with weaved overload light attacks was removed in 1.6.1. I'm not saying overload isn't strong still, but you should really do the tests yourself and do them on the current PTS build (and I'm talking during 1.6.1 here, not 1.6.3) before offering your opinion every place you can.

    Not exactly. It was based on him doing more DPS than everyone in our testing (not just me). That happened regardless of whether he was weaving or not. I assumed he was still light attack weaving, but he did do this in the last patch (not 1.6.3) so I assumed wrong, that doesn't mean his numbers were not still where they were. (Actually, I'm even more surprised at the numbers with this). So yeah, it's a bit OP. Other sorc players have even agreed in thread and said that it shouldn't regenerate it's own ultimate, so it's not like I'm the lone voice here. Sure, I assumed wrong. It's great to use that to throw insults at me, but it also doesn't really change the point that the power is OP because whether or not my description is correct, the numbers in the end were what I was making my judgement on.

    It also doesn't meant he other stuff, things like Lightning Splash that I do run on my sorc all the time, is off base either. I like the change there. Maybe it's because it plays into how I use it, but that's still a consideration as it sounds like a power that is meant to be a DoT and not a spammable AoE (for max damage).

    I also like what they are doing with Expert Mage. I don't know if it should be stronger as I haven't been on 1.6.3 yet, but I do like that direction. Much rather see costs come down on a couple powers and keep the new version of expert mage.

    -- @xaraan --
    nightblade: Xaraan templar: Xaraan-dar dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus necromancer: Xaraan-qa warden: Xaraanodon sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
    AD • NA • PC
  • XEVENEX
    XEVENEX
    ✭✭✭✭
    Confirmed shards still do not proc on Streak and Encase.

    I'm going to go ahead and assume this is a ninja nerf boys, not a bug. I'm really not liking ZOS right now.
  • david.haypreub18_ESO
    david.haypreub18_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Templars are 'just slower... by design'
    Yes, Gina actually said that (at least regarding Rushed Ceremony) right here:
    http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/161959/templar-skills-bugged-made-useless-ignored/p24
    VR 16 Templar (retired until Templars get fixed)
    VR 16 Sorcerer
    38 Nightblade
    24 DK
  • indigoblades
    indigoblades
    ✭✭✭
    i think the exchange of 10% cost reduction in the storm calling tree for 2% spell power is a nerf for me. Its definitely not a much needed buff.

    2% spell power equates to no better than 1% more damage, .... Less if one has a high Magicka Sorc (ref Tooltip Damage = (Magicka/20 + Spell_power/1.9) * K. So in our best tree, storm calling, its a huge loss, to gain 1% Damage it will cost us about 11% more. In the other two trees we gain about 1 to 3 % damage, depending on what sorc skill one has slotted.

    O as added bonus, if it was implemented as stated in patch notes it will boost the hated toogle master pet build slightly, since all the sorc skills in that build are in the pet tree.
  • Exstazik
    Exstazik
    ✭✭✭✭
    XEVENEX wrote: »
    Confirmed shards still do not proc on Streak and Encase.

    I'm going to go ahead and assume this is a ninja nerf boys, not a bug. I'm really not liking ZOS right now.

    You didn't(me also) purchase "Proc Potion" from Crown_Store that's why it doesn't proc.And CF proc not instant because we forgot to use "No CD spam potion *made by Sheogorath" :#
    Gyudan wrote: »
    For all the sorcs out there who feel sad after another nerf day:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMqMzhqkOLA

    It's time to give up.
    3 factions. 3 constellations. 3 classes.
    We have last hope.Spelllcraft=exclusive for sorc B)

    Edited by Exstazik on February 17, 2015 11:46PM
  • Ancile
    Ancile
    ✭✭✭
    xaraan wrote: »
    xaraan wrote: »
    Vis wrote: »
    xaraan wrote: »
    xaraan wrote: »
    ToRelax wrote: »
    Even if it was that you use only class abilities on one bar, that's 12% spell damage only. That stat is rediculously overvalued by people who really don't have an idea of how little extra damage/healing it provides.

    I don't see any big nerfs and I personally think 15% decrease on damage shields is only fair. If you can crit damage shields that is a whole different matter.

    Overall I don't see big nerfs (apart from critting shields maybe) and no mentionable buffs either.

    I agree with you mostly, just wanted to comment on some issues you raise.

    Well, the shield change is a PvP thing that effects all classes and was done because of how easy it is to stack shields in Cyro now. It will still be easy and that 15% won't hold back players that do it, it's just to bring it in line with the other 15% reductions to damage and the like from entering Cyrodiil.

    As for buffs, the biggest changes they went into was trying to make caster sorcs a bit more powerful vs pet builds, which is why they increased the lightning splash dot to help long term dps and the reason they added the spell power increase b/c pets scale off of max magicka and won't get the increase with spell power, only sorc spells and staff abilities will get a benefit from that.

    You complained about lack of constructive comments, but your reasoning about the usefulness of the lighting splash is as flawed as is the reasoning of the devs that thought it would help sorcs DPS. That skill is a joke, no one will use it as it's so avoidable just moving out of it since it's aoe is so small and even with the buff the damage is so low. You want to be taken serious then you need to give us good arguments and not pathetic excuses for pathetic buffs on a pathetic skill.

    Sorry, but insults are pretty sad. - Insult, suggesting his comment was only insults and thus saying he's sad

    Once you head down that road, you are getting desperate. - Insult, suggesting comments that don't agree with you and don't have numbers must be desperate

    If you truly think they are "pathetic excuses" then maybe a rational discussion is a waste of time with you. - Insult, calling him a waste of time

    The skill is not a joke, I wonder about your own ability if you cannot make use of it even now. - Insult, another wording for l2p

    For a person trying to stay above insults, you seem pretty willing to use them.

    I have no problem heading down that road if someone wants to, but be aware who jumped to insults first and started things down a less constructive path. Don't confuse that. (Also, me saying one part of his comment was an insult isn't dismissive of his entire comment, which is why I said more in response to his other stuff. edit: nor is saying a rational discussion with someone is a waste of time is saying that the person is a waste of time - and spinning the facts is a bit dishonest of you.)

    Well, probably my wording was a bit too out of order but since sorcs have been hammered left and right with nerfs and useless skills it got on my nerves you coming in stating that it's great the buff they did to lightning splash and that our class is just great and all but most of us just don't appreciate all the nice things SoZ been doing for us. Sorry for the strong words, my anger is not with you. Still I can't really agree that you say lightning splash is a viable aoe but to each it's own.

    As for Expert Mage, I do love the change here. I think having a passive like that is something unique to a sorc, giving them a boost to all damage. Now, that doesn't mean they don't need to adjust cost of abilities overall, but I'd rather see them bring down costs of some storm powers than just get rid of this new passive.

    You want rational discussion? Well, since you seemed to miss the tons of discussion we had on this subject all this week (as did all the ZOS devs obviously), I will edify you.

    I created a new toon on pts with the template, put on template armor, and some points into magicka trait. I did not add food, mundus stone, new enchants, and/or any cp points. Below are the damage tooltips for WITH and WITHOUT the new passive buff:

    WithoutBuff_zpsf240c6e7.png

    WithBuff_zps366f97c1.png

    That's right. 12% increased spell power correlates to about 3% damage increase in our hardest hitting skill!

    Now I ask other sorcs (not NBs mains prancing as sorcs):

    Which would you rather have? 10% cost reduction on some of your most used skills automatically? Or an increase in 3% damage at the cost of having to use ONLY sorc skills and ultimates?

    @xaraan your argument that this is good is fail. Is this how low ER's knowledge base has fallen over the past year?
    Edited by Ancile on February 17, 2015 11:52PM
    DK FOR LIFE
  • Vis
    Vis
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ancile wrote: »
    xaraan wrote: »
    xaraan wrote: »
    Vis wrote: »
    xaraan wrote: »
    xaraan wrote: »
    ToRelax wrote: »
    Even if it was that you use only class abilities on one bar, that's 12% spell damage only. That stat is rediculously overvalued by people who really don't have an idea of how little extra damage/healing it provides.

    I don't see any big nerfs and I personally think 15% decrease on damage shields is only fair. If you can crit damage shields that is a whole different matter.

    Overall I don't see big nerfs (apart from critting shields maybe) and no mentionable buffs either.

    I agree with you mostly, just wanted to comment on some issues you raise.

    Well, the shield change is a PvP thing that effects all classes and was done because of how easy it is to stack shields in Cyro now. It will still be easy and that 15% won't hold back players that do it, it's just to bring it in line with the other 15% reductions to damage and the like from entering Cyrodiil.

    As for buffs, the biggest changes they went into was trying to make caster sorcs a bit more powerful vs pet builds, which is why they increased the lightning splash dot to help long term dps and the reason they added the spell power increase b/c pets scale off of max magicka and won't get the increase with spell power, only sorc spells and staff abilities will get a benefit from that.

    You complained about lack of constructive comments, but your reasoning about the usefulness of the lighting splash is as flawed as is the reasoning of the devs that thought it would help sorcs DPS. That skill is a joke, no one will use it as it's so avoidable just moving out of it since it's aoe is so small and even with the buff the damage is so low. You want to be taken serious then you need to give us good arguments and not pathetic excuses for pathetic buffs on a pathetic skill.

    Sorry, but insults are pretty sad. - Insult, suggesting his comment was only insults and thus saying he's sad

    Once you head down that road, you are getting desperate. - Insult, suggesting comments that don't agree with you and don't have numbers must be desperate

    If you truly think they are "pathetic excuses" then maybe a rational discussion is a waste of time with you. - Insult, calling him a waste of time

    The skill is not a joke, I wonder about your own ability if you cannot make use of it even now. - Insult, another wording for l2p

    For a person trying to stay above insults, you seem pretty willing to use them.

    I have no problem heading down that road if someone wants to, but be aware who jumped to insults first and started things down a less constructive path. Don't confuse that. (Also, me saying one part of his comment was an insult isn't dismissive of his entire comment, which is why I said more in response to his other stuff. edit: nor is saying a rational discussion with someone is a waste of time is saying that the person is a waste of time - and spinning the facts is a bit dishonest of you.)

    Well, probably my wording was a bit too out of order but since sorcs have been hammered left and right with nerfs and useless skills it got on my nerves you coming in stating that it's great the buff they did to lightning splash and that our class is just great and all but most of us just don't appreciate all the nice things SoZ been doing for us. Sorry for the strong words, my anger is not with you. Still I can't really agree that you say lightning splash is a viable aoe but to each it's own.

    As for Expert Mage, I do love the change here. I think having a passive like that is something unique to a sorc, giving them a boost to all damage. Now, that doesn't mean they don't need to adjust cost of abilities overall, but I'd rather see them bring down costs of some storm powers than just get rid of this new passive.

    You want rational discussion? Well, since you seemed to miss the tons of discussion we had on this subject all this week (as did all the ZOS devs obviously), I will edify you.

    I created a new toon on pts with the template, put on template armor, and some points into magicka trait. I did not add food, mundus stone, new enchants, and/or any cp points. Below are the damage tooltips for WITH and WITHOUT the new passive buff:

    WithoutBuff_zpsf240c6e7.png

    WithBuff_zps366f97c1.png

    That's right. 12% increased spell power correlates to about 3% damage increase in our hardest hitting skill!

    Now I ask other sorcs (not NBs mains prancing as sorcs):

    Which would you rather have? 10% cost reduction on some of your most used skills automatically? Or an increase in 3% damage at the cost of having to use ONLY sorc skills and ultimates?

    @xaraan your argument that this is good is fail. Is this how low ER's knowledge base has fallen over the past year?

    It's been said all week. How he missed it I have no clue. Only someone completely missing the point would look at these nerfs and call them good.
    v14 Sorc Vae Exillis
    v14 DK Costs
    v14 NB 'Vis
    v14 Temp Fiat Lux

  • Vis
    Vis
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    xaraan wrote: »
    Erock25 wrote: »
    xaraan wrote: »
    Vis wrote: »
    xaraan wrote: »
    Vis wrote: »
    xaraan wrote: »
    Vis wrote: »
    xaraan wrote: »
    xaraan wrote: »
    ToRelax wrote: »
    Even if it was that you use only class abilities on one bar, that's 12% spell damage only. That stat is rediculously overvalued by people who really don't have an idea of how little extra damage/healing it provides.

    I don't see any big nerfs and I personally think 15% decrease on damage shields is only fair. If you can crit damage shields that is a whole different matter.

    Overall I don't see big nerfs (apart from critting shields maybe) and no mentionable buffs either.

    I agree with you mostly, just wanted to comment on some issues you raise.

    Well, the shield change is a PvP thing that effects all classes and was done because of how easy it is to stack shields in Cyro now. It will still be easy and that 15% won't hold back players that do it, it's just to bring it in line with the other 15% reductions to damage and the like from entering Cyrodiil.

    As for buffs, the biggest changes they went into was trying to make caster sorcs a bit more powerful vs pet builds, which is why they increased the lightning splash dot to help long term dps and the reason they added the spell power increase b/c pets scale off of max magicka and won't get the increase with spell power, only sorc spells and staff abilities will get a benefit from that.

    You complained about lack of constructive comments, but your reasoning about the usefulness of the lighting splash is as flawed as is the reasoning of the devs that thought it would help sorcs DPS. That skill is a joke, no one will use it as it's so avoidable just moving out of it since it's aoe is so small and even with the buff the damage is so low. You want to be taken serious then you need to give us good arguments and not pathetic excuses for pathetic buffs on a pathetic skill.

    Sorry, but insults are pretty sad. - Insult, suggesting his comment was only insults and thus saying he's sad

    Once you head down that road, you are getting desperate. - Insult, suggesting comments that don't agree with you and don't have numbers must be desperate

    If you truly think they are "pathetic excuses" then maybe a rational discussion is a waste of time with you. - Insult, calling him a waste of time

    The skill is not a joke, I wonder about your own ability if you cannot make use of it even now. - Insult, another wording for l2p

    For a person trying to stay above insults, you seem pretty willing to use them.

    I have no problem heading down that road if someone wants to, but be aware who jumped to insults first and started things down a less constructive path.

    *Cowers in fear of ever getting into some "insult" battle with a game forum warrior.*
    There are some improvements still needed on sorcs, but this isn't the way to go about seeing them.

    Also, if you go back and read, many of us have already tried being constructive. Most of us have already posted the numbers. Most of us already discussed the math as to what xyz spell power increase would compare to dps. Most of us have already tried the civil routes.

    Are we going to stop trying? Of course not. But you're waltzing in minutes after all of us in the sorc community have been pissed on and telling us it's rain. Just because you're buddy buddy with the devs, doesn't make us feel any better about being screwed.

    No, that's not what I'm saying at all. I don't know if people that agree/disagree in these discussions get all lumped together, maybe there are things other posters have said that I'm catching flack for as well. idk

    My main statement, before maybe getting derailed with bickering, was that I thought overload was a bit OP and needed a nerf, so didn't mind the change here (other than not seeing results in testing yet). And that I liked what they did to lightning splash and expert mage. That doesn't meant they don't need other adjustments, but like I said to someone else, I'd rather see them bring the costs down on the skills in the tree and keep the new expert mage power.

    You have now made multiple posts in multiple sorc threads talking about you're glad overload is nerfed, when your whole view on overload may be wrong because it is based on your friend doing more DPS than you when the skill was weavable. The ability to use instant casts with weaved overload light attacks was removed in 1.6.1. I'm not saying overload isn't strong still, but you should really do the tests yourself and do them on the current PTS build (and I'm talking during 1.6.1 here, not 1.6.3) before offering your opinion every place you can.

    It's great to use that to throw insults at me, but it also doesn't really change the point that the power is OP because whether or not my description is correct, the numbers in the end were what I was making my judgement on.

    Come and throw all the overload light attacks you want at my DK. I will laugh once they kill you.
    v14 Sorc Vae Exillis
    v14 DK Costs
    v14 NB 'Vis
    v14 Temp Fiat Lux

  • c0rp
    c0rp
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Can I have my 10% mana reduction back and you can keep your 3% damage increase (because thats the ACTUAL change)?
    Edited by c0rp on February 18, 2015 12:16AM
    Force weapon swap to have priority over EVERYTHING. Close enough.
    Make stamina builds even with magicka builds.
    Disable abilities while holding block.
    Give us a REASON to do dungeons more than once.
    Remove PVP AoE CAP. It is ruining Cyrodiil.
    Fix/Remove Forward Camps. They are ruining Cyrodiil.
    Impenetrability needs to REDUCE CRIT DAMAGE. Not negate entire builds.
    Werewolf is not equal to Vamps/Bats.
  • Attorneyatlawl
    Attorneyatlawl
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Ancile wrote: »
    xaraan wrote: »
    Most of the changes are for the better IMO.

    Overload is way OP, some just aren't using it effectively to see how OP it can be.

    Lightning Splash lasting longer and being a better DoT is a good thing. As is increasing spell damage for Expert Mage, I'd rather have that than a little more cost reduction. I can see how a stam sorc might not like it, but realistically a bonus like that should be more helpful to a caster than a stam user IMO, they have plenty of tools for doing damage already and have a different resource to worry about.

    Sorc isn't your main, eh? I care less about my alts being nerfed too.

    Sorc is becoming my new PVP main as of 1.6. DK is getting shelved. Come back a month post-1.6 hitting live and you'll know why.
    -First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent.
    Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!

    -Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
    ________________
    -In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.
  • xaraan
    xaraan
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ahhhh, the sweet sweet insults

    I don't agree with you so insult me and now my guild.

    Ignore that I've said I like the concept of what they are doing and that it might need an increase in the power it gives you (I'm well aware of how it works, I've had to look at weapon power and stamina and how that gets effected by siphoning strikes on a NB, works the same way). I've also said I'd rather see them lower the cost of storm calling powers than change the power back as reduction wasn't exactly blowing my socks off either.

    -- @xaraan --
    nightblade: Xaraan templar: Xaraan-dar dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus necromancer: Xaraan-qa warden: Xaraanodon sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
    AD • NA • PC
  • Gyudan
    Gyudan
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Ancile wrote: »
    xaraan wrote: »
    Most of the changes are for the better IMO.

    Overload is way OP, some just aren't using it effectively to see how OP it can be.

    Lightning Splash lasting longer and being a better DoT is a good thing. As is increasing spell damage for Expert Mage, I'd rather have that than a little more cost reduction. I can see how a stam sorc might not like it, but realistically a bonus like that should be more helpful to a caster than a stam user IMO, they have plenty of tools for doing damage already and have a different resource to worry about.

    Sorc isn't your main, eh? I care less about my alts being nerfed too.

    Sorc is becoming my new PVP main as of 1.6. DK is getting shelved. Come back a month post-1.6 hitting live and you'll know why.

    I'm not worried for PVP sorcerers, they benefit from good crowd control and mobility skills and should do just fine as usual.
    From a PVE perspective, sorcerers are inferior to any other class. That's what I'm concerned about.
    Wololo.
  • xaraan
    xaraan
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Gyudan wrote: »
    Ancile wrote: »
    xaraan wrote: »
    Most of the changes are for the better IMO.

    Overload is way OP, some just aren't using it effectively to see how OP it can be.

    Lightning Splash lasting longer and being a better DoT is a good thing. As is increasing spell damage for Expert Mage, I'd rather have that than a little more cost reduction. I can see how a stam sorc might not like it, but realistically a bonus like that should be more helpful to a caster than a stam user IMO, they have plenty of tools for doing damage already and have a different resource to worry about.

    Sorc isn't your main, eh? I care less about my alts being nerfed too.

    Sorc is becoming my new PVP main as of 1.6. DK is getting shelved. Come back a month post-1.6 hitting live and you'll know why.

    I'm not worried for PVP sorcerers, they benefit from good crowd control and mobility skills and should do just fine as usual.
    From a PVE perspective, sorcerers are inferior to any other class. That's what I'm concerned about.

    That's not true. Sorcs are doing more DPS (on a long fight, not a 15 second burst fight) than NBs. At least in all our tests with multiple players.
    -- @xaraan --
    nightblade: Xaraan templar: Xaraan-dar dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus necromancer: Xaraan-qa warden: Xaraanodon sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
    AD • NA • PC
  • RinaldoGandolphi
    RinaldoGandolphi
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    There is nothing more to be said. These changes are nerfs all around.The Expert mage one is just crazy though... 3% more damage traded for 10% cost reduction is not good at all.

    None of these changes makes sense from any logical standpoint I can see. What is driving you guys to make such changes. Advice from some guild? Who is suggesting this terrible advice? None of these changes ate good I assure you, no need to test such a lackluster spell damage increase against a 10% cost reduction, the 10% reduction wins everytime against a 3% increase, its a no brainer!



    Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
    Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
    Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
    Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
    RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
    Officer Fire and Ice
    Co-GM - MVP



    Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)

    "Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak

  • Seraphyel
    Seraphyel
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    xaraan wrote: »
    Gyudan wrote: »
    Ancile wrote: »
    xaraan wrote: »
    Most of the changes are for the better IMO.

    Overload is way OP, some just aren't using it effectively to see how OP it can be.

    Lightning Splash lasting longer and being a better DoT is a good thing. As is increasing spell damage for Expert Mage, I'd rather have that than a little more cost reduction. I can see how a stam sorc might not like it, but realistically a bonus like that should be more helpful to a caster than a stam user IMO, they have plenty of tools for doing damage already and have a different resource to worry about.

    Sorc isn't your main, eh? I care less about my alts being nerfed too.

    Sorc is becoming my new PVP main as of 1.6. DK is getting shelved. Come back a month post-1.6 hitting live and you'll know why.

    I'm not worried for PVP sorcerers, they benefit from good crowd control and mobility skills and should do just fine as usual.
    From a PVE perspective, sorcerers are inferior to any other class. That's what I'm concerned about.

    That's not true. Sorcs are doing more DPS (on a long fight, not a 15 second burst fight) than NBs. At least in all our tests with multiple players.


    So Sorcs must be as bad as NBs instead of being as good as DKs or Templars - seems reasonable.
  • Erock25
    Erock25
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    xaraan wrote: »
    Gyudan wrote: »
    Ancile wrote: »
    xaraan wrote: »
    Most of the changes are for the better IMO.

    Overload is way OP, some just aren't using it effectively to see how OP it can be.

    Lightning Splash lasting longer and being a better DoT is a good thing. As is increasing spell damage for Expert Mage, I'd rather have that than a little more cost reduction. I can see how a stam sorc might not like it, but realistically a bonus like that should be more helpful to a caster than a stam user IMO, they have plenty of tools for doing damage already and have a different resource to worry about.

    Sorc isn't your main, eh? I care less about my alts being nerfed too.

    Sorc is becoming my new PVP main as of 1.6. DK is getting shelved. Come back a month post-1.6 hitting live and you'll know why.

    I'm not worried for PVP sorcerers, they benefit from good crowd control and mobility skills and should do just fine as usual.
    From a PVE perspective, sorcerers are inferior to any other class. That's what I'm concerned about.

    That's not true. Sorcs are doing more DPS (on a long fight, not a 15 second burst fight) than NBs. At least in all our tests with multiple players.

    Is this relying solely on using Overload or do they out dps you while not using Overload too? Serious question.
    You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
    You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points
  • Gyudan
    Gyudan
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    xaraan wrote: »
    Gyudan wrote: »
    Ancile wrote: »
    xaraan wrote: »
    Most of the changes are for the better IMO.

    Overload is way OP, some just aren't using it effectively to see how OP it can be.

    Lightning Splash lasting longer and being a better DoT is a good thing. As is increasing spell damage for Expert Mage, I'd rather have that than a little more cost reduction. I can see how a stam sorc might not like it, but realistically a bonus like that should be more helpful to a caster than a stam user IMO, they have plenty of tools for doing damage already and have a different resource to worry about.

    Sorc isn't your main, eh? I care less about my alts being nerfed too.

    Sorc is becoming my new PVP main as of 1.6. DK is getting shelved. Come back a month post-1.6 hitting live and you'll know why.

    I'm not worried for PVP sorcerers, they benefit from good crowd control and mobility skills and should do just fine as usual.
    From a PVE perspective, sorcerers are inferior to any other class. That's what I'm concerned about.

    That's not true. Sorcs are doing more DPS (on a long fight, not a 15 second burst fight) than NBs. At least in all our tests with multiple players.
    I have not tested NBs on the PTS but I'd love to see DPS reports of various players using optimal builds on the same mobs in ultimate-less rotations if you have some.

    I have tested my Sorcerer against my Templar and the Sorc is clearly weaker.
    Wololo.
  • Erock25
    Erock25
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Gyudan wrote: »

    I have tested my Sorcerer against my Templar and the Sorc is clearly weaker.

    And I have tested my Sorc against my DK and Sorc is clearly weaker, both in a magicka spec and stamina spec.
    You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
    You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points
  • Dracane
    Dracane
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Gyudan wrote: »

    That's not true. Sorcs are doing more DPS (on a long fight, not a 15 second burst fight) than NBs. At least in all our tests with multiple players.
    I have not tested NBs on the PTS but I'd love to see DPS reports of various players using optimal builds on the same mobs in ultimate-less rotations if you have some.

    I have tested my Sorcerer against my Templar and the Sorc is clearly weaker.
    [/quote]

    No need. If someone claims, his Sorc is doing more DPS than any other class, he's simply lying or cheating. (with cheating I mean, giving the Sorc top gear and the other class trash gear )
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.

    My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos
  • xaraan
    xaraan
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Erock25 wrote: »
    xaraan wrote: »
    Gyudan wrote: »
    Ancile wrote: »
    xaraan wrote: »
    Most of the changes are for the better IMO.

    Overload is way OP, some just aren't using it effectively to see how OP it can be.

    Lightning Splash lasting longer and being a better DoT is a good thing. As is increasing spell damage for Expert Mage, I'd rather have that than a little more cost reduction. I can see how a stam sorc might not like it, but realistically a bonus like that should be more helpful to a caster than a stam user IMO, they have plenty of tools for doing damage already and have a different resource to worry about.

    Sorc isn't your main, eh? I care less about my alts being nerfed too.

    Sorc is becoming my new PVP main as of 1.6. DK is getting shelved. Come back a month post-1.6 hitting live and you'll know why.

    I'm not worried for PVP sorcerers, they benefit from good crowd control and mobility skills and should do just fine as usual.
    From a PVE perspective, sorcerers are inferior to any other class. That's what I'm concerned about.

    That's not true. Sorcs are doing more DPS (on a long fight, not a 15 second burst fight) than NBs. At least in all our tests with multiple players.

    Is this relying solely on using Overload or do they out dps you while not using Overload too? Serious question.

    No, I was talking about all our different sorc builds. The caster, the pet and the stamina sorc all pulled in good dps. Not like DK good, so yea I don't disagree that they need more loving (as I've said many times) I was just saying they out-do NB right now.
    -- @xaraan --
    nightblade: Xaraan templar: Xaraan-dar dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus necromancer: Xaraan-qa warden: Xaraanodon sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
    AD • NA • PC
  • Ezareth
    Ezareth
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    xaraan wrote: »
    Erock25 wrote: »
    xaraan wrote: »
    Vis wrote: »
    xaraan wrote: »
    Vis wrote: »
    xaraan wrote: »
    Vis wrote: »
    xaraan wrote: »
    xaraan wrote: »
    ToRelax wrote: »
    Even if it was that you use only class abilities on one bar, that's 12% spell damage only. That stat is rediculously overvalued by people who really don't have an idea of how little extra damage/healing it provides.

    I don't see any big nerfs and I personally think 15% decrease on damage shields is only fair. If you can crit damage shields that is a whole different matter.

    Overall I don't see big nerfs (apart from critting shields maybe) and no mentionable buffs either.

    I agree with you mostly, just wanted to comment on some issues you raise.

    Well, the shield change is a PvP thing that effects all classes and was done because of how easy it is to stack shields in Cyro now. It will still be easy and that 15% won't hold back players that do it, it's just to bring it in line with the other 15% reductions to damage and the like from entering Cyrodiil.

    As for buffs, the biggest changes they went into was trying to make caster sorcs a bit more powerful vs pet builds, which is why they increased the lightning splash dot to help long term dps and the reason they added the spell power increase b/c pets scale off of max magicka and won't get the increase with spell power, only sorc spells and staff abilities will get a benefit from that.

    You complained about lack of constructive comments, but your reasoning about the usefulness of the lighting splash is as flawed as is the reasoning of the devs that thought it would help sorcs DPS. That skill is a joke, no one will use it as it's so avoidable just moving out of it since it's aoe is so small and even with the buff the damage is so low. You want to be taken serious then you need to give us good arguments and not pathetic excuses for pathetic buffs on a pathetic skill.

    Sorry, but insults are pretty sad. - Insult, suggesting his comment was only insults and thus saying he's sad

    Once you head down that road, you are getting desperate. - Insult, suggesting comments that don't agree with you and don't have numbers must be desperate

    If you truly think they are "pathetic excuses" then maybe a rational discussion is a waste of time with you. - Insult, calling him a waste of time

    The skill is not a joke, I wonder about your own ability if you cannot make use of it even now. - Insult, another wording for l2p

    For a person trying to stay above insults, you seem pretty willing to use them.

    I have no problem heading down that road if someone wants to, but be aware who jumped to insults first and started things down a less constructive path.

    *Cowers in fear of ever getting into some "insult" battle with a game forum warrior.*
    There are some improvements still needed on sorcs, but this isn't the way to go about seeing them.

    Also, if you go back and read, many of us have already tried being constructive. Most of us have already posted the numbers. Most of us already discussed the math as to what xyz spell power increase would compare to dps. Most of us have already tried the civil routes.

    Are we going to stop trying? Of course not. But you're waltzing in minutes after all of us in the sorc community have been pissed on and telling us it's rain. Just because you're buddy buddy with the devs, doesn't make us feel any better about being screwed.

    No, that's not what I'm saying at all. I don't know if people that agree/disagree in these discussions get all lumped together, maybe there are things other posters have said that I'm catching flack for as well. idk

    My main statement, before maybe getting derailed with bickering, was that I thought overload was a bit OP and needed a nerf, so didn't mind the change here (other than not seeing results in testing yet). And that I liked what they did to lightning splash and expert mage. That doesn't meant they don't need other adjustments, but like I said to someone else, I'd rather see them bring the costs down on the skills in the tree and keep the new expert mage power.

    You have now made multiple posts in multiple sorc threads talking about you're glad overload is nerfed, when your whole view on overload may be wrong because it is based on your friend doing more DPS than you when the skill was weavable. The ability to use instant casts with weaved overload light attacks was removed in 1.6.1. I'm not saying overload isn't strong still, but you should really do the tests yourself and do them on the current PTS build (and I'm talking during 1.6.1 here, not 1.6.3) before offering your opinion every place you can.

    Not exactly. It was based on him doing more DPS than everyone in our testing (not just me). That happened regardless of whether he was weaving or not. I assumed he was still light attack weaving, but he did do this in the last patch (not 1.6.3) so I assumed wrong, that doesn't mean his numbers were not still where they were. (Actually, I'm even more surprised at the numbers with this). So yeah, it's a bit OP. Other sorc players have even agreed in thread and said that it shouldn't regenerate it's own ultimate, so it's not like I'm the lone voice here. Sure, I assumed wrong. It's great to use that to throw insults at me, but it also doesn't really change the point that the power is OP because whether or not my description is correct, the numbers in the end were what I was making my judgement on.

    It also doesn't meant he other stuff, things like Lightning Splash that I do run on my sorc all the time, is off base either. I like the change there. Maybe it's because it plays into how I use it, but that's still a consideration as it sounds like a power that is meant to be a DoT and not a spammable AoE (for max damage).

    I also like what they are doing with Expert Mage. I don't know if it should be stronger as I haven't been on 1.6.3 yet, but I do like that direction. Much rather see costs come down on a couple powers and keep the new version of expert mage.

    It regenerates it's own ultimate on live yet it wasn't OP there. It expends far more ultimate than it creates.

    For a carebear sure, Expert mage makes sense because you don't use bolt escape or spam and lightning abilities while you're weaving light attacks and crushing shock spam, but in PvP it is an extremely harsh nerf. It isn't insurmountable but don't forget PvP Sorcs have been directly and indirectly(yet not exclusively) nerfed consistently for the past 3 major patches now with no real buffs.

    Once again, look at this from a PvP player's perspective:

    Nerfs:
    Restoration Staff Nerf
    Sharpened Nerf
    (Total loss of 25% damage against most players)

    Harness Magicka Nerf
    Streak Nerf
    Negate Nerf

    "Buffs"
    Mages Wrath Reflect (Bug Fix)


    In 1.6 it's a whole nother round of nerfs to casters and Sorcs...
    Light Armor Nerf
    Streak/Ball of lightning automatic activation of CC immunity
    Cost Reduction Nerf(12.3% across the board)
    Velocious Curse now blockable (offset somewhat by base damage increase)
    Damage Shield Nerf
    Crit Surge Nerf
    Impenetrable Nerf (against the squishiest class in the game this nerf hurts us most)
    Ball of Lightning Nerf (no longer absorbs heavy attacks)
    Streak/Encase Crystal Fragment (Bug)
    Negate Nerf
    Expert Mage Nerf
    Power Overload, Ultimate, Cost and damage nerf


    "Buffs"
    Crystal frag procs now +20% Damage
    Power overload + 50% Damage(offset somewhat by 1.6.3 nerf)
    Lightning Splash duration? (lol)
    Pets? (lol....I don't even know what was buffed but lol @pets)

    Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
    Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
    Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
    Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
    Ezareth PvP on Youtube
This discussion has been closed.