Patch 1.6.3 MORE SORC NERFS

Snit

I don't see the loss of Magicka Cost Reduction for Storm Calling as more than a minor nerf for magicka sorcs. There are only two spells there we may spam in some circumstances, Mage's Fury and Bolt Escape. In both cases, a potion will mitigate the nerf somewhat.

It may be a more serious issue for Stamina Sorcs, challenged just to maintain Surge and Thundering Presence uptime. Even occasional uses of Bolt Escape may be rough. It's worth testing

xherics

ZOS_TristanK wrote: »

Hey, all. We've been reading your feedback about sorcerers in Update 6 and will continue to do so, but we do require that all posts on the official forums stay civil and constructive. We recommend heading over to our recent thread titled Community Vision and Increased Moderation as well as our Code of Conduct to see what kind of behaviors are and are not acceptable on the forums. Thank you.

With all the respect, I would like to ask you, why are you at ZOS surprised now, that after yesterdays PTS update not all posts are civil and constructive? No attack, just curious.

You know, we are already asking for a quite long time now to buff sorc at least for the normal level, but all what you do is just a nerf, seems so you are banning sorcerers out from Tamriel to Oblivion.

We asked kindly: no result, just nerf
We asked with please: no result, just more nerf
We asked with concrete tips to spells/improvements: no result, just more nerf
We asked with facts: no result, just more nerf
We asked a bit more loudly: no result, just more nerf
We asked not so kindly: no result, just more nerf
We asked with a bit rage: no result, just more nerf

What do you still want from the Sorcerers community? How should we please ask you ZOS to buff the Sorcerer, to have at least a NORMAL magic sorcerer?
We really do not want to be OP like all the DKs all the time, just on normal level, not excluded from group content.. At the moment, the sorcerer class is on 15% in the leaderboards, I know it as best, because I am in one of the top guilds, and already I hear so many times, that "no mate, not today, today your DK is needed", because sorcerer is too weak... At the moment, no SO speed run is possible without x DKs or with more than 1 sorcerer. This means, if 2 or more sorcerers are in the group, it is not anymore speed run, neither SO, neither other dungeons. And do not mention, that in AA or HrC no sorcerer is wanted anymore.

In 1.6 with the sorcerer changes, no sorcerer will be wanted to Trials, dungeons, the community will ban us permanently from everywhere because sorcerer is with these changes useless, they will hate sorcerers...

Until now, we had at least our Negate, but it got also huge nerfed...

Just check please all the tips and constructive comments, how the community can imagine the real sorcerer buffs.
But if you went to this way, to buff spell damage with passive, it should be min. 4% (better 5% min) for one slotted skill, but we recommend 10% for one skill.

Why? You said, we should use Lighting splash and Crystal fragments. 5% spell damage means 1,5% more damage/hit for spells; and if you think a bit about this, it is not a real buff if we lose the 10% magica costs reduction.

But ok, let it be 4% max spell damage on the passive, but give please back also the 10% costs reduction. So double passive. What do you think?

I can imagine the sorcerer class without 1.6 nerfs and with the double passive (4% spell dmg for one slotted sorc skill and costs reduction). This can be a real buff.

Tagging here also Ms. Gina Bruno with a hope... @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ If possible, please answer for this message. I am curious about your opinion.

nun_nonrb19_ESO

xaraan wrote: »

nun_nonrb19_ESO wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

nun_nonrb19_ESO wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Even if it was that you use only class abilities on one bar, that's 12% spell damage only. That stat is rediculously overvalued by people who really don't have an idea of how little extra damage/healing it provides.

I don't see any big nerfs and I personally think 15% decrease on damage shields is only fair. If you can crit damage shields that is a whole different matter.

Overall I don't see big nerfs (apart from critting shields maybe) and no mentionable buffs either.

I agree with you mostly, just wanted to comment on some issues you raise.

Well, the shield change is a PvP thing that effects all classes and was done because of how easy it is to stack shields in Cyro now. It will still be easy and that 15% won't hold back players that do it, it's just to bring it in line with the other 15% reductions to damage and the like from entering Cyrodiil.

As for buffs, the biggest changes they went into was trying to make caster sorcs a bit more powerful vs pet builds, which is why they increased the lightning splash dot to help long term dps and the reason they added the spell power increase b/c pets scale off of max magicka and won't get the increase with spell power, only sorc spells and staff abilities will get a benefit from that.

You complained about lack of constructive comments, but your reasoning about the usefulness of the lighting splash is as flawed as is the reasoning of the devs that thought it would help sorcs DPS. That skill is a joke, no one will use it as it's so avoidable just moving out of it since it's aoe is so small and even with the buff the damage is so low. You want to be taken serious then you need to give us good arguments and not pathetic excuses for pathetic buffs on a pathetic skill.

Sorry, but insults are pretty sad. - Insult, suggesting his comment was only insults and thus saying he's sad

Once you head down that road, you are getting desperate. - Insult, suggesting comments that don't agree with you and don't have numbers must be desperate

If you truly think they are "pathetic excuses" then maybe a rational discussion is a waste of time with you. - Insult, calling him a waste of time

The skill is not a joke, I wonder about your own ability if you cannot make use of it even now. - Insult, another wording for l2p

For a person trying to stay above insults, you seem pretty willing to use them.

I have no problem heading down that road if someone wants to, but be aware who jumped to insults first and started things down a less constructive path. Don't confuse that. (Also, me saying one part of his comment was an insult isn't dismissive of his entire comment, which is why I said more in response to his other stuff. edit: nor is saying a rational discussion with someone is a waste of time is saying that the person is a waste of time - and spinning the facts is a bit dishonest of you.)

Well, probably my wording was a bit too out of order but since sorcs have been hammered left and right with nerfs and useless skills it got on my nerves you coming in stating that it's great the buff they did to lightning splash and that our class is just great and all but most of us just don't appreciate all the nice things SoZ been doing for us. Sorry for the strong words, my anger is not with you. Still I can't really agree that you say lightning splash is a viable aoe but to each it's own.

I completely understand, I'm pretty used to various reactions here on the forums and I know people get heated on their classes. I don't expect everyone to agree with me either.

Yes, I do think the overload was a nerf. But I think overload was a bit too overpowered as it was. We'll have to see how it plays out in testing as nobody from our guild has obviously tested the patch that just rolled out today.

As for Lightning Splash, I don't view it as a viable aoe like impulse or something you would spam, just as a decent dot to throw down while I'm doing other attacks. Maybe the changes they have made line up with how I use it so that's why I am happy with it.

As for Expert Mage, I do love the change here. I think having a passive like that is something unique to a sorc, giving them a boost to all damage. Now, that doesn't mean they don't need to adjust cost of abilities overall, but I'd rather see them bring down costs of some storm powers than just get rid of this new passive.

Seems to me though, if people come at ZoS hard, completely overlooking how a change can be beneficial and just trash it as a nerf period, then they have a good chance of having their comments overlooked. I mean, it's completely different hearing someone say all of those changes are nerfs (when they are not) vs. someone saying, hey, I like this Expert Mage change idea ZoS, I see what you are doing and like the direction but now Storm Calling powers are too costly and should be brought down a bit to make up for that change.

I don't think LS is that bad but what stunned me was the combat lead dev giving the hint in last ESO live that with it's buff we got all our DPS woes sorted out and if we had like 7 or 8 skills per skill bar I could think about using it but right now I'm constantly struggling to have all the skill I'd like to without trying to fit one that is so lackluster on it's usefulness.

Crowzer

Your tears are delicious !

Teargrants

Crowzer wrote: »

Your tears are delicious !

My tears are the sweetest nectar, but I can't grant them to your undercooked troll.

Exstazik

This one what i post in feedback:
Activating an Storm Calling ability grants 2 additional Ultimate(6 sec cooldown) and gives Minor Sorcery buff
This one what i got:
Expert Mage: This passive ability has been changed. It now grants 2% Spell Power for each Sorcerer ability slotted .

*P.S.Don't forget that BoE animation was nerfed by ZOS ninja,just check Live and Pts animation.On PTS it's has longer animation.

Mumyo

Vis wrote: »

Expert Mage: This passive ability has been changed. It now grants 2% Spell Power for each Sorcerer ability slotted instead of 10% reduced cost to lightning spells.


Liquid Lighting (Lightning Splash Morph): Increased this ability’s duration to ten seconds, and removed the additional damage from the first hit.


Overload: Reduced the rank up bonus damage for this ability from 3% to 1%.

Also, Overload and its morphs will no longer trigger Ultimate gain from Light and Heavy Attacks.

Makes you wonder ...

My dear,

first one u mentioned is a buff to ur purpose.
2nd is a thing u dont need to care of
3rd of course its a thing thats necessary to qual the sorc to others.

U want more sustain dps?`here u go and u call that a nerf!!

Overload as it is is not allright in pvp. They simply 1shot people by klicking left mouse button.

And of course the ultimate gain is gone because everybody lost his ultimate gain in such things.

NOW STOP CRYING U SORCS.
IN PVP u are monsters in 1.6 and get pretty much of a easy mode for the noobs among you.

In Pve they try to grant u slight sustain dmg buffs as the one u mentioned as a nerf.

PLS use ur brain at least once. Casters should have a certain level of intellect.
Remain gentle and ur momy may serve u some hot milk and a cookie.

Lhorion

I cannot believe it.... Annother sorc thread about nerfs. Are you this kind of sorcs that laughed about qq-threads created by a DK? This is the same! Sorcs will be really strong (okay, i think about pvp), maybe the strongest class.

Maulkin

Lhorion wrote: »

I cannot believe it.... Annother sorc thread about nerfs. Are you this kind of sorcs that laughed about qq-threads created by a DK? This is the same! Sorcs will be really strong (okay, i think about pvp), maybe the strongest class.

QQ threads by DKs in 1.5 were pretty laughable when DK was and still is on live the best single target DD, best AoE DD, best Tank and overall most beastly class in open world pvp thanks to battle roar and scales.

If and when Sorc reaches the level OPness DK has enjoyed for a whole year, then you can make direct comparison on the level of whining ok? But as I don't see that happening any time soon, I suggest you focus your feedback on your class and leave the sorcs to provide feedback on their class without your trolling tyvm.

As for @mumyo, he calls out people for complaining when only a few days ago he created a QQ thread of his own for his Templar, the most buffed class in the 1.6, because wait for it.... they finally addressed the Biting Jabs stun lock.

This is hypocrisy on a level high enough to take offence.

Armitas

I don't get all the class trolling. Do we not all join the same raid? Fight the same enemy everyday? Why rejoice when group member 1, 3 and 8 get nerfed when it hurts the effectiveness and success of the whole group?

Mumyo

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Lhorion wrote: »

I cannot believe it.... Annother sorc thread about nerfs. Are you this kind of sorcs that laughed about qq-threads created by a DK? This is the same! Sorcs will be really strong (okay, i think about pvp), maybe the strongest class.

As for @mumyo, he calls out people for complaining when only a few days ago he created a QQ thread of his own for his Templar, the most buffed class in the 1.6, because wait for it.... they finally addressed the Biting Jabs stun lock.

This is hypocrisy on a level high enough to take offence.

No. I said the mechanic of jabs is now broken. its stunns for not even half a second and grants u cc immunity which takes away the entire cc aspect of the templar in pvp.

I wanted the whole cc from jabs removed so i can stunn again, thats not crying at all and its is still in everyones interest.

If u take that as QQ thread u simply didnt get anythign logical at all. I was just saying that there is a way better solution to the jabs issue which will not entirely take away the cc option of a templar and still will take away the jab stunnlock.

Are u now smart enough to understand what i wrote about?

ToRelax

Mumyo wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Lhorion wrote: »

I cannot believe it.... Annother sorc thread about nerfs. Are you this kind of sorcs that laughed about qq-threads created by a DK? This is the same! Sorcs will be really strong (okay, i think about pvp), maybe the strongest class.

As for @mumyo, he calls out people for complaining when only a few days ago he created a QQ thread of his own for his Templar, the most buffed class in the 1.6, because wait for it.... they finally addressed the Biting Jabs stun lock.

This is hypocrisy on a level high enough to take offence.

No. I said the mechanic of jabs is now broken. its stunns for not even half a second and grants u cc immunity which takes away the entire cc aspect of the templar in pvp.

I wanted the whole cc from jabs removed so i can stunn again, thats not crying at all and its is still in everyones interest.

If u take that as QQ thread u simply didnt get anythign logical at all. I was just saying that there is a way better solution to the jabs issue which will not entirely take away the cc option of a templar and still will take away the jab stunnlock.

Are u now smart enough to understand what i wrote about?

Do you really want to hijack this thread now... I agree that it's mostly whining and exaggerating but that doesn't change the facts.
The new passive is next to nothing, some sorcerers have been using Stormcalling skills more than others, Lighting Splash does not increase dps enough, if at all, in it's current form.

You have to understand, and I think you do, that the survival of Sorcs in 1.6 PvP depends mainly on Hardened Ward. Stamina and hybrid Sorcs are in a much worse place. That is what one would expect after the removal of softcaps, with some thought. Would be nice to balance things out more, so players are competitive when spreading their attributes more, at the moment it seems likely they just balance around the shields and once those get a nerf the class is underwhelming suddenly.

Maulkin

I'll just copy your quotes..

Mumyo wrote: »

If u were stupid enough to not move around the Templar, pop immovable or keep some stamina for especially that case. It was a idiottrap.

Mumyo wrote: »

Did u ever try running through ur opponent? Because it simply screwed the jabs.
I can't believe u all are serious about this? Run in circles or pop immovable or breakt it and run through.

I NEVER and i am serious about this had any issues with jabspamming noobs.

And that does not justify that it now grants the enemy cc immunity and makes the skill useless because it takes away ur option of cc entirely.

Dont be so selfish and damn jabs just because u didnt like how it was. That is seriously not a solution.

Mumyo wrote: »

I REPEAT THE PROBLEM IS THAT I CANT USE ANY EFFECTIVE CC's BECAUSE THE LITTLE STUNN OF JABS MAKES U COMPLETELY IMMUNE!!!!!!

Pls read the capslock line again.
Now make up ur mind and tell me what u think.

The difference between QQ and feedback imo, is in exaggeration of facts, random use of uppercase and bold text, tantrums and abusive language. Your posts exhibited every element that I consider to be part of QQ posting

Mumyo wrote: »

Are u now smart enough to understand what i wrote about?

I'm smart enough to see past your hypocrisy and insults. Please go troll somewhere else.

Lied

Armitas wrote: »

I don't get all the class trolling. Do we not all join the same raid? Fight the same enemy everyday? Why rejoice when group member 1, 3 and 8 get nerfed when it hurts the effectiveness and success of the whole group?

Welcome to the internet, where being emotional shows weakness and weakness is opportunity. The level of raging and crying over these changes completely obfuscates any valid points that might be made.

Mumyo

@mike.gaziotisb16_ESO

Mumyo wrote: »

Means that the person that is beeing hit by it gains cc immunity.

Thats a tough nerf and additonal they nerfed the damage too.
I would prefer taking the whole cc of jabs away instead of knockbacknig someone for half a second and then grant him immunity.

It takes away my option of ccing them effective.

This was the threads message. Pulling things out entirely without the context is the way of the very small person.

IM sry for posting that here.

We can head back and i am curious about the lighting costs.
Is that a hard hit on the ressources of the sorc? and how much more dps do u get now? any tests?

Id also love to see dps in comparison. from what i know templars achieves around 10k.

Kypho

Complain more. Sorc was already OP now complain more because they get ballanced..... All hate to lose OPness it seems

Kypho

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

Its really weird, they treat sorcs like they did archers in DaoC. They keep on nerfing them even though they are already hurting and weak.

Sorc is only weak when you dont know how to play it. Just like others

Kypho

Ancile wrote: »

Going to retire my sorc for a while.

Hell, going to go back to Eve for month or so and see how this all plays out.

Peace!

BIG LOL

Vis

Mumyo wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Lhorion wrote: »

I cannot believe it.... Annother sorc thread about nerfs. Are you this kind of sorcs that laughed about qq-threads created by a DK? This is the same! Sorcs will be really strong (okay, i think about pvp), maybe the strongest class.

As for @mumyo, he calls out people for complaining when only a few days ago he created a QQ thread of his own for his Templar, the most buffed class in the 1.6, because wait for it.... they finally addressed the Biting Jabs stun lock.

This is hypocrisy on a level high enough to take offence.

Are u now smart enough to understand what i wrote about?

If you're going to create a post insulting others intelligence, it would behoove you to use correct spelling and grammar first. You can't even spell "mommy" correctly and we're supposed to be impressed by your insults?

Vis

Mumyo wrote: »

@mike.gaziotisb16_ESO

Mumyo wrote: »

Means that the person that is beeing hit by it gains cc immunity.

Thats a tough nerf and additonal they nerfed the damage too.
I would prefer taking the whole cc of jabs away instead of knockbacknig someone for half a second and then grant him immunity.

It takes away my option of ccing them effective.

This was the threads message. Pulling things out entirely without the context is the way of the very small person.

IM sry for posting that here.

We can head back and i am curious about the lighting costs.
Is that a hard hit on the ressources of the sorc? and how much more dps do u get now? any tests?

Id also love to see dps in comparison. from what i know templars achieves around 10k.

Please read through the entirety of this thread. It was already proven (even with pictures for you) that it's a 3% increase in dps if you use nothing but sorc skills and at the cost of 10% higher costs in two of the most expensive sorc skills in the game (surge and bolt).

Teargrants

Kypho wrote: »

Complain more. Sorc was already OP now complain more because they get ballanced..... All hate to lose OPness it seems

What exactly is it you feel you gain by attempting to troll and derail every legitimate discussion? Shall we take a look?

Kypho wrote: »

OP Sorcerers are like giant babies. They are strong but

Kypho wrote: »

Yeah. All waiting to fix the OP Sorc.

Kypho wrote: »

Shame, that people cant play the most OP class in eso, the sorcerer.

Kypho wrote: »

Sorcerer feedback: Sorc is OP. Need nerf to ballance. And remove lolshieldstacking BS

On top of comments like this, now you're just spamming this thread, I'm really impressed.

Vis

Kypho wrote: »

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

Its really weird, they treat sorcs like they did archers in DaoC. They keep on nerfing them even though they are already hurting and weak.

Sorc is only weak when you dont know how to play it. Just like others

Look another non sorc thinking they know anything. How amusing.

Vis

Teargrants wrote: »

Kypho wrote: »

Complain more. Sorc was already OP now complain more because they get ballanced..... All hate to lose OPness it seems

What exactly is it you feel you gain by attempting to troll and derail every legitimate discussion? Shall we take a look?

Kypho wrote: »

OP Sorcerers are like giant babies. They are strong but

Kypho wrote: »

Yeah. All waiting to fix the OP Sorc.

Kypho wrote: »

Shame, that people cant play the most OP class in eso, the sorcerer.

Kypho wrote: »

Sorcerer feedback: Sorc is OP. Need nerf to ballance. And remove lolshieldstacking BS

On top of comments like this, now you're just spamming this thread, I'm really impressed.

He's so near 500 LOLs and wants to farm them. Look at his number of comments vs LOLs. Everyone already considers him a joke.

Maulkin

@Teargrants‌, if you haven't added Kypho to your ignore list yet, you never will.

His entire post history is filled with sarcasm and animosity about OPlars, OP Sorcs, OP DKs. With very little substance or facts, may I add.

No marks given for guessing what class he plays

Vis

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

No marks given for guessing what class he plays

Dang it. And I was so proud of having just figured it out.

Mumyo

Vis wrote: »

Kypho wrote: »

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

Its really weird, they treat sorcs like they did archers in DaoC. They keep on nerfing them even though they are already hurting and weak.

Sorc is only weak when you dont know how to play it. Just like others

Look another non sorc thinking they know anything. How amusing.

So little babies.
I talked to some good pvers and sorc gets 13k dps allready on the pts without pet build. Sounds more then good to me. 14.5k situational.
That is very close to the dk at around 15k.

I really dont know why there are so many complaints. Those are awesome numbers.

Mojomonkeyman

This is hurting stam/hybrid builds like I use to play the most. Terrible implementation. Why making the access to class defining tree so hard for non light players?

Im sad.

Laplace

Mumyo wrote: »

itz okk wen i do it

Sure thing, kid.

Anyway, at this point, Sorcs need not apply to trial runs. It's getting a little sad. They're being treated the same way Nightblades were treated after 1.4. This is why ESO needs to do the same thing Guild Wars did when it comes to PVP: Have skills certain skills change when they go into PVP zones, but stay the same in PVE.

PVPers are unpleasable. They will always claim X class is over-powered and demand nerfs and/or buffs, and then react with righteous fury when the devs finally cave to their demands, causing the cycle to repeat itself on the forums. Of course, this inevitably screws over PVE-ers who have no interest in PVP, leading to even more of these threads. PVE and PVP are fundamentally different in almost every way. What Guild Wars did was the perfect compromise.

What astounds me is that the developers seem to actually be pushing sorcs to use a specific build: Pets. That was the ONLY build that got buffed, while virtually everything else, by all accounts and available evidence, got nerfed, and nerfed hard. It's baffling and flies in the face of the 'play as you want' creed they started this game with.

A1exeR

Mumyo wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

Kypho wrote: »

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

Its really weird, they treat sorcs like they did archers in DaoC. They keep on nerfing them even though they are already hurting and weak.

Sorc is only weak when you dont know how to play it. Just like others

Look another non sorc thinking they know anything. How amusing.

So little babies.
I talked to some good pvers and sorc gets 13k dps allready on the pts without pet build. Sounds more then good to me. 14.5k situational.
That is very close to the dk at around 15k.

I really dont know why there are so many complaints. Those are awesome numbers.

Idle talk without screenshots

Mumyo

@A1exeR

I cant screenshot someone elses gameplay but u could ask the good pve guilds as Hodor. Im pretty sure thats a reliable source and their numbers are seriously trustworthy.