Patch 1.6.3 MORE SORC NERFS

ToRelax

I didn't have any problem with it proccing the ultimate gain buff in 1.6, though I can't imagine it being hard to use a normal attack every 8 seconds and then go back on overload either, now that you should be able to gian ultimate from shields, too. Besides that, how often are you more than 8 seconds on overload in pvp?

Snit

xaraan wrote: »

No, I was talking about all our different sorc builds. The caster, the pet and the stamina sorc all pulled in good dps. Not like DK good, so yea I don't disagree that they need more loving (as I've said many times) I was just saying they out-do NB right now.

Sorc and NB continue their long-running battle for third place at everything

Gyudan

xaraan wrote: »

I was just saying they out-do NB right now.

I'm no NB expert, but using strictly out-of-class abilities (destro staff and mages guild for magicka), a NB should be superior to a sorc due to his passives though, especially the 8% increase in max magicka.
A NB's Force Pulse and Destructive Clench's should hit harder than a Sorc's in a single target rotation, especially with Piercing Mark active. Does adding NB class skills to that base reduce the DPS? I know that the old funnel spam build is no longer viable but still ...

[class passives here]

xaraan

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

nun_nonrb19_ESO wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Even if it was that you use only class abilities on one bar, that's 12% spell damage only. That stat is rediculously overvalued by people who really don't have an idea of how little extra damage/healing it provides.

I don't see any big nerfs and I personally think 15% decrease on damage shields is only fair. If you can crit damage shields that is a whole different matter.

Overall I don't see big nerfs (apart from critting shields maybe) and no mentionable buffs either.

I agree with you mostly, just wanted to comment on some issues you raise.

Well, the shield change is a PvP thing that effects all classes and was done because of how easy it is to stack shields in Cyro now. It will still be easy and that 15% won't hold back players that do it, it's just to bring it in line with the other 15% reductions to damage and the like from entering Cyrodiil.

As for buffs, the biggest changes they went into was trying to make caster sorcs a bit more powerful vs pet builds, which is why they increased the lightning splash dot to help long term dps and the reason they added the spell power increase b/c pets scale off of max magicka and won't get the increase with spell power, only sorc spells and staff abilities will get a benefit from that.

You complained about lack of constructive comments, but your reasoning about the usefulness of the lighting splash is as flawed as is the reasoning of the devs that thought it would help sorcs DPS. That skill is a joke, no one will use it as it's so avoidable just moving out of it since it's aoe is so small and even with the buff the damage is so low. You want to be taken serious then you need to give us good arguments and not pathetic excuses for pathetic buffs on a pathetic skill.

Sorry, but insults are pretty sad. - Insult, suggesting his comment was only insults and thus saying he's sad

Once you head down that road, you are getting desperate. - Insult, suggesting comments that don't agree with you and don't have numbers must be desperate

If you truly think they are "pathetic excuses" then maybe a rational discussion is a waste of time with you. - Insult, calling him a waste of time

The skill is not a joke, I wonder about your own ability if you cannot make use of it even now. - Insult, another wording for l2p

For a person trying to stay above insults, you seem pretty willing to use them.

I have no problem heading down that road if someone wants to, but be aware who jumped to insults first and started things down a less constructive path.

*Cowers in fear of ever getting into some "insult" battle with a game forum warrior.*

There are some improvements still needed on sorcs, but this isn't the way to go about seeing them.

Also, if you go back and read, many of us have already tried being constructive. Most of us have already posted the numbers. Most of us already discussed the math as to what xyz spell power increase would compare to dps. Most of us have already tried the civil routes.

Are we going to stop trying? Of course not. But you're waltzing in minutes after all of us in the sorc community have been pissed on and telling us it's rain. Just because you're buddy buddy with the devs, doesn't make us feel any better about being screwed.

No, that's not what I'm saying at all. I don't know if people that agree/disagree in these discussions get all lumped together, maybe there are things other posters have said that I'm catching flack for as well. idk

My main statement, before maybe getting derailed with bickering, was that I thought overload was a bit OP and needed a nerf, so didn't mind the change here (other than not seeing results in testing yet). And that I liked what they did to lightning splash and expert mage. That doesn't meant they don't need other adjustments, but like I said to someone else, I'd rather see them bring the costs down on the skills in the tree and keep the new expert mage power.

You have now made multiple posts in multiple sorc threads talking about you're glad overload is nerfed, when your whole view on overload may be wrong because it is based on your friend doing more DPS than you when the skill was weavable. The ability to use instant casts with weaved overload light attacks was removed in 1.6.1. I'm not saying overload isn't strong still, but you should really do the tests yourself and do them on the current PTS build (and I'm talking during 1.6.1 here, not 1.6.3) before offering your opinion every place you can.

Not exactly. It was based on him doing more DPS than everyone in our testing (not just me). That happened regardless of whether he was weaving or not. I assumed he was still light attack weaving, but he did do this in the last patch (not 1.6.3) so I assumed wrong, that doesn't mean his numbers were not still where they were. (Actually, I'm even more surprised at the numbers with this). So yeah, it's a bit OP. Other sorc players have even agreed in thread and said that it shouldn't regenerate it's own ultimate, so it's not like I'm the lone voice here. Sure, I assumed wrong. It's great to use that to throw insults at me, but it also doesn't really change the point that the power is OP because whether or not my description is correct, the numbers in the end were what I was making my judgement on.

It also doesn't meant he other stuff, things like Lightning Splash that I do run on my sorc all the time, is off base either. I like the change there. Maybe it's because it plays into how I use it, but that's still a consideration as it sounds like a power that is meant to be a DoT and not a spammable AoE (for max damage).

I also like what they are doing with Expert Mage. I don't know if it should be stronger as I haven't been on 1.6.3 yet, but I do like that direction. Much rather see costs come down on a couple powers and keep the new version of expert mage.

It regenerates it's own ultimate on live yet it wasn't OP there. It expends far more ultimate than it creates.

For a carebear sure, Expert mage makes sense because you don't use bolt escape or spam and lightning abilities while you're weaving light attacks and crushing shock spam, but in PvP it is an extremely harsh nerf. It isn't insurmountable but don't forget PvP Sorcs have been directly and indirectly(yet not exclusively) nerfed consistently for the past 3 major patches now with no real buffs.

Once again, look at this from a PvP player's perspective:

Nerfs:
Restoration Staff Nerf
Sharpened Nerf
(Total loss of 25% damage against most players)

Harness Magicka Nerf
Streak Nerf
Negate Nerf

"Buffs"
Mages Wrath Reflect (Bug Fix)


In 1.6 it's a whole nother round of nerfs to casters and Sorcs...
Light Armor Nerf
Streak/Ball of lightning automatic activation of CC immunity
Cost Reduction Nerf(12.3% across the board)
Velocious Curse now blockable (offset somewhat by base damage increase)
Damage Shield Nerf
Crit Surge Nerf
Impenetrable Nerf (against the squishiest class in the game this nerf hurts us most)
Ball of Lightning Nerf (no longer absorbs heavy attacks)
Streak/Encase Crystal Fragment (Bug)
Negate Nerf
Expert Mage Nerf
Power Overload, Ultimate, Cost and damage nerf


"Buffs"
Crystal frag procs now +20% Damage
Power overload + 50% Damage(offset somewhat by 1.6.3 nerf)
Lightning Splash duration? (lol)
Pets? (lol....I don't even know what was buffed but lol @pets)

I don't see how my comment that I'd rather see them reduce the cost of certain powers than change the passive back is that bad. If bolt escape is too expensive, then I'd rather see it come down in cost and keep the spell damage.

I know, according to most, this makes me a moron and my guild the same. But I like the added spell damage for sorcs that gives me more damage to everything I cast, not just spell in that skill tree. Lower the cost of some of those other powers if they are too out of line now, I think that's what we should be asking for instead of expecting them to change a passive back that hasn't been tested and just got changed.

Vis

xaraan wrote: »

ahhhh, the sweet sweet insults

I don't agree with you so insult me and now my guild.

Play martyr much? You act like you're dying on the cross for us. Just because someone proves you wrong with numbers, doesn't make it an insult ... or personal.

xaraan

Gyudan wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

I was just saying they out-do NB right now.

I'm no NB expert, but using strictly out-of-class abilities (destro staff and mages guild for magicka), a NB should be superior to a sorc due to his passives though, especially the 8% increase in max magicka.
A NB's Force Pulse and Destructive Clench's should hit harder than a Sorc's in a single target rotation, especially with Piercing Mark active. Does adding NB class skills to that base reduce the DPS? I know that the old funnel spam build is no longer viable but still ...

[class passives here]

I believe the caster/pet guy was wearing necropotence giving him a bit more magicka than the NBs

Solanum

As a Nightblade, this thread is amusing, especially the part about being nerfed to the level of a Nightblade.

Jahosefat

Wahee wrote: »

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

Going on memory, Surge is going to cost about 4.5k for medium armor sorcs? That's unusable. Streak at over 3k?

Guess how much cloak costs for medium NB's. Go ahead....guess. Guess how many times it breaks early too. Those are not high costs for utility skills, and definitely not "unusable." Consider that those skills actually work every time too.

Nana nana nana Nana nana nana sorc-thread-hijacking-NB!! Go back to your cloak threads!

Laplace

Alcast wrote: »

I AM SICK OF SORCS QQ LIKE LITTLE BABIES.

NBs are more broken than sorcs and do you see ANY of them QQ?

Anyway, I'm starting to think ZoS is intentionally trying to get people to stop playing this class. There's really no other explanation at this point. Sorcs have been their whipping boy since 1.1, they've been nerfed every single patch since then. At this point, they need not apply to Trial groups anymore.

ZOS_TristanK

Hey, all. We've been reading your feedback about sorcerers in Update 6 and will continue to do so, but we do require that all posts on the official forums stay civil and constructive. We recommend heading over to our recent thread titled Community Vision and Increased Moderation as well as our Code of Conduct to see what kind of behaviors are and are not acceptable on the forums. Thank you.

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO

ZOS_TristanK wrote: »

Hey, all. We've been reading your feedback about sorcerers in Update 6 and will continue to do so, but we do require that all posts on the official forums stay civil and constructive. We recommend heading over to our recent thread titled Community Vision and Increased Moderation as well as our Code of Conduct to see what kind of behaviors are and are not acceptable on the forums. Thank you.

REALLY? YOU ALL ACTUALLY READ? THEN WHY DO YOU KEEP NERFING OUR CLASS EVERY SINGLE PATCH !!?!?? STOP IT. YOU WANNA NERF A CLASS GO NERF DRAGONKNIGHTS. NERF THEM LIKE YOU'VE NERFED US. NERF DRAGONS BLOOD/ MAGMA rmor.

Laplace

ZOS_TristanK wrote: »

We've been reading your feedback about sorcerers in Update 6 and will continue to do

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO

Alcast wrote: »

I AM SICK OF SORCS QQ LIKE LITTLE BABIES.

NBs are more broken than sorcs and do you see ANY of them QQ?

Hey you just earned a LOL badge. Wa that your goal?

Vis

ZOS_TristanK wrote: »

Hey, all. We've been reading your feedback about sorcerers in Update 6 and will continue to do so, but we do require that all posts on the official forums stay civil and constructive. We recommend heading over to our recent thread titled Community Vision and Increased Moderation as well as our Code of Conduct to see what kind of behaviors are and are not acceptable on the forums. Thank you.

Please communicate the growing frustration from us sorcs. There would be far more of us, but our ranks are thinning with each nerf.

Sacadon

@ZOS_TristanK‌ can a ZOS dev weigh in on exactly how we are to use lightning splash to dish out any real and useful damage seeing that you believed enough in the change. I'm trying to be open minded about this, but it's not easy to say the least as the skill is junk IMO.

Here's a thread asking about it:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/152281/lightning-splash-1-6-3#latest

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO

xaraan wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

nun_nonrb19_ESO wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Even if it was that you use only class abilities on one bar, that's 12% spell damage only. That stat is rediculously overvalued by people who really don't have an idea of how little extra damage/healing it provides.

I don't see any big nerfs and I personally think 15% decrease on damage shields is only fair. If you can crit damage shields that is a whole different matter.

Overall I don't see big nerfs (apart from critting shields maybe) and no mentionable buffs either.

I agree with you mostly, just wanted to comment on some issues you raise.

Well, the shield change is a PvP thing that effects all classes and was done because of how easy it is to stack shields in Cyro now. It will still be easy and that 15% won't hold back players that do it, it's just to bring it in line with the other 15% reductions to damage and the like from entering Cyrodiil.

As for buffs, the biggest changes they went into was trying to make caster sorcs a bit more powerful vs pet builds, which is why they increased the lightning splash dot to help long term dps and the reason they added the spell power increase b/c pets scale off of max magicka and won't get the increase with spell power, only sorc spells and staff abilities will get a benefit from that.

You complained about lack of constructive comments, but your reasoning about the usefulness of the lighting splash is as flawed as is the reasoning of the devs that thought it would help sorcs DPS. That skill is a joke, no one will use it as it's so avoidable just moving out of it since it's aoe is so small and even with the buff the damage is so low. You want to be taken serious then you need to give us good arguments and not pathetic excuses for pathetic buffs on a pathetic skill.

Sorry, but insults are pretty sad. - Insult, suggesting his comment was only insults and thus saying he's sad

Once you head down that road, you are getting desperate. - Insult, suggesting comments that don't agree with you and don't have numbers must be desperate

If you truly think they are "pathetic excuses" then maybe a rational discussion is a waste of time with you. - Insult, calling him a waste of time

The skill is not a joke, I wonder about your own ability if you cannot make use of it even now. - Insult, another wording for l2p

For a person trying to stay above insults, you seem pretty willing to use them.

I have no problem heading down that road if someone wants to, but be aware who jumped to insults first and started things down a less constructive path.

*Cowers in fear of ever getting into some "insult" battle with a game forum warrior.*

There are some improvements still needed on sorcs, but this isn't the way to go about seeing them.

Also, if you go back and read, many of us have already tried being constructive. Most of us have already posted the numbers. Most of us already discussed the math as to what xyz spell power increase would compare to dps. Most of us have already tried the civil routes.

Are we going to stop trying? Of course not. But you're waltzing in minutes after all of us in the sorc community have been pissed on and telling us it's rain. Just because you're buddy buddy with the devs, doesn't make us feel any better about being screwed.

No, that's not what I'm saying at all. I don't know if people that agree/disagree in these discussions get all lumped together, maybe there are things other posters have said that I'm catching flack for as well. idk

My main statement, before maybe getting derailed with bickering, was that I thought overload was a bit OP and needed a nerf, so didn't mind the change here (other than not seeing results in testing yet). And that I liked what they did to lightning splash and expert mage. That doesn't meant they don't need other adjustments, but like I said to someone else, I'd rather see them bring the costs down on the skills in the tree and keep the new expert mage power.

You have now made multiple posts in multiple sorc threads talking about you're glad overload is nerfed, when your whole view on overload may be wrong because it is based on your friend doing more DPS than you when the skill was weavable. The ability to use instant casts with weaved overload light attacks was removed in 1.6.1. I'm not saying overload isn't strong still, but you should really do the tests yourself and do them on the current PTS build (and I'm talking during 1.6.1 here, not 1.6.3) before offering your opinion every place you can.

Not exactly. It was based on him doing more DPS than everyone in our testing (not just me). That happened regardless of whether he was weaving or not. I assumed he was still light attack weaving, but he did do this in the last patch (not 1.6.3) so I assumed wrong, that doesn't mean his numbers were not still where they were. (Actually, I'm even more surprised at the numbers with this). So yeah, it's a bit OP. Other sorc players have even agreed in thread and said that it shouldn't regenerate it's own ultimate, so it's not like I'm the lone voice here. Sure, I assumed wrong. It's great to use that to throw insults at me, but it also doesn't really change the point that the power is OP because whether or not my description is correct, the numbers in the end were what I was making my judgement on.

It also doesn't meant he other stuff, things like Lightning Splash that I do run on my sorc all the time, is off base either. I like the change there. Maybe it's because it plays into how I use it, but that's still a consideration as it sounds like a power that is meant to be a DoT and not a spammable AoE (for max damage).

I also like what they are doing with Expert Mage. I don't know if it should be stronger as I haven't been on 1.6.3 yet, but I do like that direction. Much rather see costs come down on a couple powers and keep the new version of expert mage.

Basically this is what everyone is trying to tell you.
YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE SAYING.

Happy now? I dont understand why you continue to try and make a point when EVERYONE ELSE HAS SAID YOU ARE WRONG. Nothing you say matters, when all the other sorcs DISAGREE WITH YOU. Sure you can continue to try and make a point, but it will fall of deaf ears.

Xsorus

Posting about dps on pts is pointless till they fix the stacking buff issue

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_TristanK wrote: »

Hey, all. We've been reading your feedback about sorcerers in Update 6 and will continue to do so, but we do require that all posts on the official forums stay civil and constructive. We recommend heading over to our recent thread titled Community Vision and Increased Moderation as well as our Code of Conduct to see what kind of behaviors are and are not acceptable on the forums. Thank you.

REALLY? YOU ALL ACTUALLY READ? THEN WHY DO YOU KEEP NERFING OUR CLASS EVERY SINGLE PATCH !!?!?? STOP IT. YOU WANNA NERF A CLASS GO NERF DRAGONKNIGHTS. NERF THEM LIKE YOU'VE NERFED US. NERF DRAGONS BLOOD/ MAGMA rmor.

Dks have received nerfs every patch, you don't see us crying.

Vis

I don't want to get into trouble for linking it, but all day I have had the South Park episode with Eric Cartman at best buy on my mind.

LilChihuahua

They should give Sorcs a 50m area life drain. Oh wait... That's comming in spell crafting. I'm excited!

Snit

Has anyone been able to test whether Absorb Shields can be crit now? I haven't had tme to get on test.

Grao

Sacadon wrote: »

@ZOS_TristanK‌ can a ZOS dev weigh in on exactly how we are to use lightning splash to dish out any real and useful damage seeing that you believed enough in the change. I'm trying to be open minded about this, but it's not easy to say the least as the skill is junk IMO.

Here's a thread asking about it:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/152281/lightning-splash-1-6-3#latest

The ability only does good single target damage if you have the City of Ash gear (Head and Shoulder). Because the ticks are fast it has a good chance of procing the set's effect for extra DPS. It is the only way though and we cant test it on the PTS because ZoS in its infinite wisdom will not give us more sets to play with on those bags of gear.

Grao

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Posting about dps on pts is pointless till they fix the stacking buff issue

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_TristanK wrote: »

Hey, all. We've been reading your feedback about sorcerers in Update 6 and will continue to do so, but we do require that all posts on the official forums stay civil and constructive. We recommend heading over to our recent thread titled Community Vision and Increased Moderation as well as our Code of Conduct to see what kind of behaviors are and are not acceptable on the forums. Thank you.

REALLY? YOU ALL ACTUALLY READ? THEN WHY DO YOU KEEP NERFING OUR CLASS EVERY SINGLE PATCH !!?!?? STOP IT. YOU WANNA NERF A CLASS GO NERF DRAGONKNIGHTS. NERF THEM LIKE YOU'VE NERFED US. NERF DRAGONS BLOOD/ MAGMA rmor.

Dks have received nerfs every patch, you don't see us crying.

DKs are still first or second best DPS in the game. You are also the best tanks in the game.

Sorcs are the best... Farmers? Maybe... We do mediocre DPS, can't heal, can't tank. It is a great and really well balanced class. Yup.

Grao

Vis wrote: »

I don't want to get into trouble for linking it, but all day I have had the South Park episode with Eric Cartman at best buy on my mind.

Yup, Big Brother is watching our posts.

Grao

Laplace wrote: »

ZOS_TristanK wrote: »

We've been reading your feedback about sorcerers in Update 6 and will continue to do

Very few times the expression "A picture is worth a thousand words" was more fitting then here. Zenimax, when you don't make us cry with your patch notes, you sure makes as laugh... Or at least smirk.

Xsorus

Grao wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Posting about dps on pts is pointless till they fix the stacking buff issue

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_TristanK wrote: »

Hey, all. We've been reading your feedback about sorcerers in Update 6 and will continue to do so, but we do require that all posts on the official forums stay civil and constructive. We recommend heading over to our recent thread titled Community Vision and Increased Moderation as well as our Code of Conduct to see what kind of behaviors are and are not acceptable on the forums. Thank you.

REALLY? YOU ALL ACTUALLY READ? THEN WHY DO YOU KEEP NERFING OUR CLASS EVERY SINGLE PATCH !!?!?? STOP IT. YOU WANNA NERF A CLASS GO NERF DRAGONKNIGHTS. NERF THEM LIKE YOU'VE NERFED US. NERF DRAGONS BLOOD/ MAGMA rmor.

Dks have received nerfs every patch, you don't see us crying.

DKs are still first or second best DPS in the game. You are also the best tanks in the game.

Sorcs are the best... Farmers? Maybe... We do mediocre DPS, can't heal, can't tank. It is a great and really well balanced class. Yup.

Templars are pretty good tanks as well, even nightblades. It's really hard to say who best tank is. Dps wise it's pointless to claim that till they fix buffing

Kahrgan

Grao wrote: »

Laplace wrote: »

ZOS_TristanK wrote: »

We've been reading your feedback about sorcerers in Update 6 and will continue to do

Very few times the expression "A picture is worth a thousand words" was more fitting then here. Zenimax, when you don't make us cry with your patch notes, you sure makes as laugh... Or at least smirk.

I believe what they were going for with that picture is the line from the princess bride "You keep using that word, but I do no think it means what you think it means" in reference to "we've been reading your feedback".

Although.. they used the wrong picture for the quote. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk

Nihil

Ok just went on and did some testing compared to 1.6.2 and 1.6.3 in 1.6.2 I was pulling probably a little over 6k ish damage (used 2 toggles mage light and restoring twilight) against Big Ozur (with a template character). This time I used one toggle (resotring twilight) because due to the buff to potions, mage light I didn't need (as for this dps tests I wasn't worried about healing myself, different situations will call for different builds). This time I pulled off 8.1k dps (a little over 7 k first try when I forgot to use my potions lalala).

This was also without ultimate and with only using elemental susceptability as I didn't want to worry about applying the buff a second time. So from a pve dps perspective this update did increase magicka dps for sorcs (and all classes because wtf 4.7k spell penetration on light armor?).

While we did gain a nerf to some sustain in pvp (storm calling abilities). We did gain quite a bit of damage against non damage shields ( LA update + expert mage update) so we can butst people (in theory) down faster then we could in 1.6.2.

From a stamina sorc quick perspective, the increase to our storm calling abilities is going to come as a hit. But looking from a 1.5 - 1.6 perspective I will be happy with the change (little sad about crit surge, but it did make group fights kind of a joke). The duration increase to thundering presence will make a huge reduction in the mana cost I need to upkeep that ability, so I can take a small hit to my surge and BoL.

Now do I think everything is perfect? no, because you will never obtain perfect balance in a game. Things could use some improving but I will need to test more before knowing the impact to much.

WarrioroftheWind_ESO

I'm gonna assume such vast nerfs are being done to A.) Gauge the reaction of sorcs or B.) test their adaptabililty. Or a combination of both. If ZOS is serious about rolling this out on live as is, I can only assume their balancing policy has changed from "play how you want" to this:

http://www.darklegacycomics.com/372

I'll more than likely be sticking to my storc setup (stamsorc) but depending on how things look I might actually take points OUT of sorc trees and spread them around other trees. Normally I try to strike a balance between magicka and stam abilities, using one to supplement the other, but because Legerdemain is looking so very enticing, I might be leaning more toward more stam-based abilities. Then again that's just me personally. I'm the type who can settle for second best as long as I try. For the number crunchers out there, I imagine either ZOS will revert/rethink their changes, or the meta will be redefined yet again. Most of the times this is a rollercoaster but in the end usually the players are the ones who define playstyles.

Ezareth

Nihil wrote: »

Ok just went on and did some testing compared to 1.6.2 and 1.6.3 in 1.6.2 I was pulling probably a little over 6k ish damage (used 2 toggles mage light and restoring twilight) against Big Ozur (with a template character). This time I used one toggle (resotring twilight) because due to the buff to potions, mage light I didn't need (as for this dps tests I wasn't worried about healing myself, different situations will call for different builds). This time I pulled off 8.1k dps (a little over 7 k first try when I forgot to use my potions lalala).

This was also without ultimate and with only using elemental susceptability as I didn't want to worry about applying the buff a second time. So from a pve dps perspective this update did increase magicka dps for sorcs (and all classes because wtf 4.7k spell penetration on light armor?).

While we did gain a nerf to some sustain in pvp (storm calling abilities). We did gain quite a bit of damage against non damage shields ( LA update + expert mage update) so we can butst people (in theory) down faster then we could in 1.6.2.

From a stamina sorc quick perspective, the increase to our storm calling abilities is going to come as a hit. But looking from a 1.5 - 1.6 perspective I will be happy with the change (little sad about crit surge, but it did make group fights kind of a joke). The duration increase to thundering presence will make a huge reduction in the mana cost I need to upkeep that ability, so I can take a small hit to my surge and BoL.

Now do I think everything is perfect? no, because you will never obtain perfect balance in a game. Things could use some improving but I will need to test more before knowing the impact to much.

I was already fully penetrating (100% damage) players with 12000 spell resistance on 1.6.1. The additional spell penetration isn't really of benefit to PVP.

WarrioroftheWind_ESO wrote: »

I'm gonna assume such vast nerfs are being done to A.) Gauge the reaction of sorcs or B.) test their adaptabililty. Or a combination of both. If ZOS is serious about rolling this out on live as is, I can only assume their balancing policy has changed from "play how you want" to this:

http://www.darklegacycomics.com/372

I'll more than likely be sticking to my storc setup (stamsorc) but depending on how things look I might actually take points OUT of sorc trees and spread them around other trees. Normally I try to strike a balance between magicka and stam abilities, using one to supplement the other, but because Legerdemain is looking so very enticing, I might be leaning more toward more stam-based abilities. Then again that's just me personally. I'm the type who can settle for second best as long as I try. For the number crunchers out there, I imagine either ZOS will revert/rethink their changes, or the meta will be redefined yet again. Most of the times this is a rollercoaster but in the end usually the players are the ones who define playstyles.

I'm really trying anything including ditching light armor completely on PTS but none of it is really working out. A Sorc is build around his mobility and bolt escape unless he is a glass cannon charge in and die sorc.

On PTS it is possible dodge roll infinitely with medium armor and the right setup but dodge roll and medium armor really doesn't have any synergies with a caster setup and I'd much sooner play a NB than a sorc who uses Melee abilities.

xaraan

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

nun_nonrb19_ESO wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Even if it was that you use only class abilities on one bar, that's 12% spell damage only. That stat is rediculously overvalued by people who really don't have an idea of how little extra damage/healing it provides.

I don't see any big nerfs and I personally think 15% decrease on damage shields is only fair. If you can crit damage shields that is a whole different matter.

Overall I don't see big nerfs (apart from critting shields maybe) and no mentionable buffs either.

I agree with you mostly, just wanted to comment on some issues you raise.

Well, the shield change is a PvP thing that effects all classes and was done because of how easy it is to stack shields in Cyro now. It will still be easy and that 15% won't hold back players that do it, it's just to bring it in line with the other 15% reductions to damage and the like from entering Cyrodiil.

As for buffs, the biggest changes they went into was trying to make caster sorcs a bit more powerful vs pet builds, which is why they increased the lightning splash dot to help long term dps and the reason they added the spell power increase b/c pets scale off of max magicka and won't get the increase with spell power, only sorc spells and staff abilities will get a benefit from that.

You complained about lack of constructive comments, but your reasoning about the usefulness of the lighting splash is as flawed as is the reasoning of the devs that thought it would help sorcs DPS. That skill is a joke, no one will use it as it's so avoidable just moving out of it since it's aoe is so small and even with the buff the damage is so low. You want to be taken serious then you need to give us good arguments and not pathetic excuses for pathetic buffs on a pathetic skill.

Sorry, but insults are pretty sad. - Insult, suggesting his comment was only insults and thus saying he's sad

Once you head down that road, you are getting desperate. - Insult, suggesting comments that don't agree with you and don't have numbers must be desperate

If you truly think they are "pathetic excuses" then maybe a rational discussion is a waste of time with you. - Insult, calling him a waste of time

The skill is not a joke, I wonder about your own ability if you cannot make use of it even now. - Insult, another wording for l2p

For a person trying to stay above insults, you seem pretty willing to use them.

I have no problem heading down that road if someone wants to, but be aware who jumped to insults first and started things down a less constructive path.

*Cowers in fear of ever getting into some "insult" battle with a game forum warrior.*

There are some improvements still needed on sorcs, but this isn't the way to go about seeing them.

Also, if you go back and read, many of us have already tried being constructive. Most of us have already posted the numbers. Most of us already discussed the math as to what xyz spell power increase would compare to dps. Most of us have already tried the civil routes.

Are we going to stop trying? Of course not. But you're waltzing in minutes after all of us in the sorc community have been pissed on and telling us it's rain. Just because you're buddy buddy with the devs, doesn't make us feel any better about being screwed.

No, that's not what I'm saying at all. I don't know if people that agree/disagree in these discussions get all lumped together, maybe there are things other posters have said that I'm catching flack for as well. idk

My main statement, before maybe getting derailed with bickering, was that I thought overload was a bit OP and needed a nerf, so didn't mind the change here (other than not seeing results in testing yet). And that I liked what they did to lightning splash and expert mage. That doesn't meant they don't need other adjustments, but like I said to someone else, I'd rather see them bring the costs down on the skills in the tree and keep the new expert mage power.

You have now made multiple posts in multiple sorc threads talking about you're glad overload is nerfed, when your whole view on overload may be wrong because it is based on your friend doing more DPS than you when the skill was weavable. The ability to use instant casts with weaved overload light attacks was removed in 1.6.1. I'm not saying overload isn't strong still, but you should really do the tests yourself and do them on the current PTS build (and I'm talking during 1.6.1 here, not 1.6.3) before offering your opinion every place you can.

Not exactly. It was based on him doing more DPS than everyone in our testing (not just me). That happened regardless of whether he was weaving or not. I assumed he was still light attack weaving, but he did do this in the last patch (not 1.6.3) so I assumed wrong, that doesn't mean his numbers were not still where they were. (Actually, I'm even more surprised at the numbers with this). So yeah, it's a bit OP. Other sorc players have even agreed in thread and said that it shouldn't regenerate it's own ultimate, so it's not like I'm the lone voice here. Sure, I assumed wrong. It's great to use that to throw insults at me, but it also doesn't really change the point that the power is OP because whether or not my description is correct, the numbers in the end were what I was making my judgement on.

It also doesn't meant he other stuff, things like Lightning Splash that I do run on my sorc all the time, is off base either. I like the change there. Maybe it's because it plays into how I use it, but that's still a consideration as it sounds like a power that is meant to be a DoT and not a spammable AoE (for max damage).

I also like what they are doing with Expert Mage. I don't know if it should be stronger as I haven't been on 1.6.3 yet, but I do like that direction. Much rather see costs come down on a couple powers and keep the new version of expert mage.

Basically this is what everyone is trying to tell you.
YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE SAYING.

Happy now? I dont understand why you continue to try and make a point when EVERYONE ELSE HAS SAID YOU ARE WRONG. Nothing you say matters, when all the other sorcs DISAGREE WITH YOU. Sure you can continue to try and make a point, but it will fall of deaf ears.

Sorry, but not "everyone" else has. You think a few people clicking lol is "everyone" - that's the real lol. You also think you are the only ones talking about this in this thread here. Not at all.

a 10% reduction on a couple spells someone "might" use is not better than (even a small) increase in dps. If it was, then no one would ever run spell damage enchants over cost reduction enchants, which have about the same effect as the increase of this buff. BUT, what is sad is that I've said several times that I'd rather them individually reduce cost on some of the storm spells and keep the new version of Expert Mage - that gives you better cost PLUS the damage. The fact that you still argue that is a bad thing is what has shown you have no idea and are just screaming for no good reason.