Patch 1.6.3 MORE SORC NERFS

Vis

xaraan wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Even if it was that you use only class abilities on one bar, that's 12% spell damage only. That stat is rediculously overvalued by people who really don't have an idea of how little extra damage/healing it provides.

I don't see any big nerfs and I personally think 15% decrease on damage shields is only fair. If you can crit damage shields that is a whole different matter.

Overall I don't see big nerfs (apart from critting shields maybe) and no mentionable buffs either.

I agree with you mostly, just wanted to comment on some issues you raise.

Well, the shield change is a PvP thing that effects all classes and was done because of how easy it is to stack shields in Cyro now. It will still be easy and that 15% won't hold back players that do it, it's just to bring it in line with the other 15% reductions to damage and the like from entering Cyrodiil.

As for buffs, the biggest changes they went into was trying to make caster sorcs a bit more powerful vs pet builds, which is why they increased the lightning splash dot to help long term dps and the reason they added the spell power increase b/c pets scale off of max magicka and won't get the increase with spell power, only sorc spells and staff abilities will get a benefit from that.

Must be people like you who the devs talk to, because all we have been getting lately is crap like this.

When did anyone of us ask for stronger builds against pets? Seriously?

The strongest pets in-game, I guess, are the dev pets that feed them useless class information.

xaraan

Gyudan wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

And in some cases, there are some broken things in the game that do need nerfed - Overload and Wrecking Blow (from 2H) are a couple of those skills.

Overload had never been an optimal Ultimate for a Sorcerer. Now for the first time it could be used in PVE without DPS loss and I was really eager to do so on Live because of how cool the skill looks. I really enjoyed it on the PTS.
Now it's back to uselessness again.

DPS loss? The sorcs testing it in our group were doing waaaaay more DPS using overload before they buffed the damage by 50% last update.

jluchau

I don't mind testing it, and I try very hard not to have knee jerk reactions. But, looking at the changes, I can't help but feel underwhelmed. I am as always hopeful that things will be better when it finally goes live, but it is hard to see right now what this gets us. Making spells more expensive to gain a very slight amount of spell power seems like, at best, just an even trade when we needed a little buff. Giving Splash more time was great, but they had to remove the instant damage didn't they? This makes the ability less useful as it already has a very small radius at 4m, i believe. So now not only can you roll right away from it without breaking a sweat but there was zero instant damage. I'm not too upset about the overload changes, but its possible I don't understand their effect as well as others do. I didn't use this ultimate that much anyway. I wanted to like it but in practice it was never that great for me. Could be just me though.

I am not a pro player, but I do hope when all is said and done I will be able to take my sorc. into PvP or end game PvE and feel like I can contribute to the group. Otherwise I worry people won't want to play with me. If people don't want to play with me then why am I playing an MMO, might as well go play more skyrim.

I will continue to be hopeful, and i will test this as best I can, but I hope something more changes.

xherics

- Surge (All Ranks & Morphs): This ability can now trigger off of doing damage to player characters that are using damage mitigation shields.

No more selfheal at all and no Major sorcery buff, if the enemy has Shield...

nun_nonrb19_ESO

xaraan wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Even if it was that you use only class abilities on one bar, that's 12% spell damage only. That stat is rediculously overvalued by people who really don't have an idea of how little extra damage/healing it provides.

I don't see any big nerfs and I personally think 15% decrease on damage shields is only fair. If you can crit damage shields that is a whole different matter.

Overall I don't see big nerfs (apart from critting shields maybe) and no mentionable buffs either.

I agree with you mostly, just wanted to comment on some issues you raise.

Well, the shield change is a PvP thing that effects all classes and was done because of how easy it is to stack shields in Cyro now. It will still be easy and that 15% won't hold back players that do it, it's just to bring it in line with the other 15% reductions to damage and the like from entering Cyrodiil.

As for buffs, the biggest changes they went into was trying to make caster sorcs a bit more powerful vs pet builds, which is why they increased the lightning splash dot to help long term dps and the reason they added the spell power increase b/c pets scale off of max magicka and won't get the increase with spell power, only sorc spells and staff abilities will get a benefit from that.

You complained about lack of constructive comments, but your reasoning about the usefulness of the lighting splash is as flawed as is the reasoning of the devs that thought it would help sorcs DPS. That skill is a joke, no one will use it as it's so avoidable just moving out of it since it's aoe is so small and even with the buff the damage is so low. You want to be taken serious then you need to give us good arguments and not pathetic excuses for pathetic buffs on a pathetic skill.

Snit

I don't care about the Lightning Splash or Overload 'buffs.' I haven't used them in the past, and it doesn't appear they'll be especially useful in the future.

I'm a bit surprised at the Expert Mage 'buff.' It's a small enough buff not to make much of a difference for magicka sorcs, while simultaneously being a nerf for stamina sorcs (for whom the cost reduction to Surge/ Lightning Form/ Bolt Escape was meaningful).

It does look like shields can't be crit. That makes me happy. The 15% reduction can be dealt with, while making them crittable would have been more like a 40% reduction.

Snit

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

Its really weird, they treat sorcs like they did archers in DaoC. They keep on nerfing them even though they are already hurting and weak.

It's a bit hard to understand.

xaraan

xherics wrote: »

- Surge (All Ranks & Morphs): This ability can now trigger off of doing damage to player characters that are using damage mitigation shields.

No more selfheal at all and no Major sorcery buff, if the enemy has Shield...

That means the opposite. Before it was not working (neither was NB siphoning strike) if an enemy had a shield up. Now you will still be able to get the heal even if a player has a shield up.

Exstazik

1.6. goes live Sorc is now offline for maintenance, and is currently unavailable.

xaraan

nun_nonrb19_ESO wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Even if it was that you use only class abilities on one bar, that's 12% spell damage only. That stat is rediculously overvalued by people who really don't have an idea of how little extra damage/healing it provides.

I don't see any big nerfs and I personally think 15% decrease on damage shields is only fair. If you can crit damage shields that is a whole different matter.

Overall I don't see big nerfs (apart from critting shields maybe) and no mentionable buffs either.

I agree with you mostly, just wanted to comment on some issues you raise.

Well, the shield change is a PvP thing that effects all classes and was done because of how easy it is to stack shields in Cyro now. It will still be easy and that 15% won't hold back players that do it, it's just to bring it in line with the other 15% reductions to damage and the like from entering Cyrodiil.

As for buffs, the biggest changes they went into was trying to make caster sorcs a bit more powerful vs pet builds, which is why they increased the lightning splash dot to help long term dps and the reason they added the spell power increase b/c pets scale off of max magicka and won't get the increase with spell power, only sorc spells and staff abilities will get a benefit from that.

You complained about lack of constructive comments, but your reasoning about the usefulness of the lighting splash is as flawed as is the reasoning of the devs that thought it would help sorcs DPS. That skill is a joke, no one will use it as it's so avoidable just moving out of it since it's aoe is so small and even with the buff the damage is so low. You want to be taken serious then you need to give us good arguments and not pathetic excuses for pathetic buffs on a pathetic skill.

Sorry, but insults are pretty sad. Once you head down that road, you are getting desperate. If you truly think they are "pathetic excuses" then maybe a rational discussion is a waste of time with you. The skill is not a joke, I wonder about your own ability if you cannot make use of it even now. But I get that you might not agree with wanting to use it, or that you might still want it improved (I do). But the only problem there is with moving out of it I've ever seen is in PvP and that's a problem with any AoE. I've hardly ever had a big problem with mobs moving out of it in PvE.

Ezareth

Well I've spent more time testing in PTS than I wish I had. I should have instead spent my time playing on live, where Sorc is still somewhat viable.

So I'm going from 52% spell reduction on the majority of my mana expense on live to 36.834% Spell reduction on PTS in the same gear.

Damage shields are nerfed 15%.

Light armor now provides zero protection to both physical and magical DPS (Do some testing if you don't believe me).

Impenetrable is now worthless.

Dodge rolling and blocking are now both prohibitively expensive, forcing me to rely more and more on my damage shields and my Bolt escape. It's a good thing those are just as strong as on live right? ohh wait..

The chief buff I had to look forward to, power overload damage was just double-nerfed in both ultimate generation and damage, despite it being the most easily countered ability in the game.

A flat percentage modifier to spell damage is frankly pretty worthless when contrasted to a -10% reduction.

If people think Sorcs are fine on PTS, they should try playing a sorc with the 70 champion points they're going to receive when this patch goes live and see just how unfun they are to play right now.

I can say one thing for sure, I'm glad when I came back I learned my lesson and only subscribed for a single month this time.

Vis

xaraan wrote: »

nun_nonrb19_ESO wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Even if it was that you use only class abilities on one bar, that's 12% spell damage only. That stat is rediculously overvalued by people who really don't have an idea of how little extra damage/healing it provides.

I don't see any big nerfs and I personally think 15% decrease on damage shields is only fair. If you can crit damage shields that is a whole different matter.

Overall I don't see big nerfs (apart from critting shields maybe) and no mentionable buffs either.

I agree with you mostly, just wanted to comment on some issues you raise.

Well, the shield change is a PvP thing that effects all classes and was done because of how easy it is to stack shields in Cyro now. It will still be easy and that 15% won't hold back players that do it, it's just to bring it in line with the other 15% reductions to damage and the like from entering Cyrodiil.

As for buffs, the biggest changes they went into was trying to make caster sorcs a bit more powerful vs pet builds, which is why they increased the lightning splash dot to help long term dps and the reason they added the spell power increase b/c pets scale off of max magicka and won't get the increase with spell power, only sorc spells and staff abilities will get a benefit from that.

You complained about lack of constructive comments, but your reasoning about the usefulness of the lighting splash is as flawed as is the reasoning of the devs that thought it would help sorcs DPS. That skill is a joke, no one will use it as it's so avoidable just moving out of it since it's aoe is so small and even with the buff the damage is so low. You want to be taken serious then you need to give us good arguments and not pathetic excuses for pathetic buffs on a pathetic skill.

Sorry, but insults are pretty sad. - Insult, suggesting his comment was only insults and thus saying he's sad

Once you head down that road, you are getting desperate. - Insult, suggesting comments that don't agree with you and don't have numbers must be desperate

If you truly think they are "pathetic excuses" then maybe a rational discussion is a waste of time with you. - Insult, calling him a waste of time

The skill is not a joke, I wonder about your own ability if you cannot make use of it even now. - Insult, another wording for l2p

For a person trying to stay above insults, you seem pretty willing to use them.

Teargrants

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

The chief buff I had to look forward to, power overload damage was just double-nerfed in both ultimate generation and damage, despite it being the most easily countered ability in the game.

Triple nerfed*, lower dmg, loss of ult gen and increased cost w/ loss of expert mage.

The only saving grace for me is that both on live and pts I only use hardened ward + healing ward. Now I'll just add harness magicka again and be back to having big shields against mag builds.

xaraan

Vis wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

nun_nonrb19_ESO wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Even if it was that you use only class abilities on one bar, that's 12% spell damage only. That stat is rediculously overvalued by people who really don't have an idea of how little extra damage/healing it provides.

I don't see any big nerfs and I personally think 15% decrease on damage shields is only fair. If you can crit damage shields that is a whole different matter.

Overall I don't see big nerfs (apart from critting shields maybe) and no mentionable buffs either.

I agree with you mostly, just wanted to comment on some issues you raise.

Well, the shield change is a PvP thing that effects all classes and was done because of how easy it is to stack shields in Cyro now. It will still be easy and that 15% won't hold back players that do it, it's just to bring it in line with the other 15% reductions to damage and the like from entering Cyrodiil.

As for buffs, the biggest changes they went into was trying to make caster sorcs a bit more powerful vs pet builds, which is why they increased the lightning splash dot to help long term dps and the reason they added the spell power increase b/c pets scale off of max magicka and won't get the increase with spell power, only sorc spells and staff abilities will get a benefit from that.

You complained about lack of constructive comments, but your reasoning about the usefulness of the lighting splash is as flawed as is the reasoning of the devs that thought it would help sorcs DPS. That skill is a joke, no one will use it as it's so avoidable just moving out of it since it's aoe is so small and even with the buff the damage is so low. You want to be taken serious then you need to give us good arguments and not pathetic excuses for pathetic buffs on a pathetic skill.

Sorry, but insults are pretty sad. - Insult, suggesting his comment was only insults and thus saying he's sad

Once you head down that road, you are getting desperate. - Insult, suggesting comments that don't agree with you and don't have numbers must be desperate

If you truly think they are "pathetic excuses" then maybe a rational discussion is a waste of time with you. - Insult, calling him a waste of time

The skill is not a joke, I wonder about your own ability if you cannot make use of it even now. - Insult, another wording for l2p

For a person trying to stay above insults, you seem pretty willing to use them.

I have no problem heading down that road if someone wants to, but be aware who jumped to insults first and started things down a less constructive path. Don't confuse that. (Also, me saying one part of his comment was an insult isn't dismissive of his entire comment, which is why I said more in response to his other stuff. edit: nor is saying a rational discussion with someone is a waste of time is saying that the person is a waste of time - and spinning the facts is a bit dishonest of you.)

Vis

xaraan wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

nun_nonrb19_ESO wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Even if it was that you use only class abilities on one bar, that's 12% spell damage only. That stat is rediculously overvalued by people who really don't have an idea of how little extra damage/healing it provides.

I don't see any big nerfs and I personally think 15% decrease on damage shields is only fair. If you can crit damage shields that is a whole different matter.

Overall I don't see big nerfs (apart from critting shields maybe) and no mentionable buffs either.

I agree with you mostly, just wanted to comment on some issues you raise.

Well, the shield change is a PvP thing that effects all classes and was done because of how easy it is to stack shields in Cyro now. It will still be easy and that 15% won't hold back players that do it, it's just to bring it in line with the other 15% reductions to damage and the like from entering Cyrodiil.

As for buffs, the biggest changes they went into was trying to make caster sorcs a bit more powerful vs pet builds, which is why they increased the lightning splash dot to help long term dps and the reason they added the spell power increase b/c pets scale off of max magicka and won't get the increase with spell power, only sorc spells and staff abilities will get a benefit from that.

You complained about lack of constructive comments, but your reasoning about the usefulness of the lighting splash is as flawed as is the reasoning of the devs that thought it would help sorcs DPS. That skill is a joke, no one will use it as it's so avoidable just moving out of it since it's aoe is so small and even with the buff the damage is so low. You want to be taken serious then you need to give us good arguments and not pathetic excuses for pathetic buffs on a pathetic skill.

Sorry, but insults are pretty sad. - Insult, suggesting his comment was only insults and thus saying he's sad

Once you head down that road, you are getting desperate. - Insult, suggesting comments that don't agree with you and don't have numbers must be desperate

If you truly think they are "pathetic excuses" then maybe a rational discussion is a waste of time with you. - Insult, calling him a waste of time

The skill is not a joke, I wonder about your own ability if you cannot make use of it even now. - Insult, another wording for l2p

For a person trying to stay above insults, you seem pretty willing to use them.

I have no problem heading down that road if someone wants to, but be aware who jumped to insults first and started things down a less constructive path.

*Cowers in fear of ever getting into some "insult" battle with a game forum warrior.*

Just because people disagree with you, and don't want to waste hours explaining why you are wrong ... does not make them irrational or insulting.

Greagor

character selection -> select sorc character -> Delete character -> Are you sure you want to Delete this character? - > Ask ZOS... cause i have NO idea at this point.

Ezareth

Teargrants wrote: »

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

The chief buff I had to look forward to, power overload damage was just double-nerfed in both ultimate generation and damage, despite it being the most easily countered ability in the game.

Triple nerfed*, lower dmg, loss of ult gen and increased cost w/ loss of expert mage.

The only saving grace for me is that both on live and pts I only use hardened ward + healing ward. Now I'll just add harness magicka again and be back to having big shields against mag builds.

I don't think overload received a cost reduction from Expert Mage did it? I thought the tooltip specifically says magicka costs.

xaraan

Vis wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

nun_nonrb19_ESO wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Even if it was that you use only class abilities on one bar, that's 12% spell damage only. That stat is rediculously overvalued by people who really don't have an idea of how little extra damage/healing it provides.

I don't see any big nerfs and I personally think 15% decrease on damage shields is only fair. If you can crit damage shields that is a whole different matter.

Overall I don't see big nerfs (apart from critting shields maybe) and no mentionable buffs either.

I agree with you mostly, just wanted to comment on some issues you raise.

Well, the shield change is a PvP thing that effects all classes and was done because of how easy it is to stack shields in Cyro now. It will still be easy and that 15% won't hold back players that do it, it's just to bring it in line with the other 15% reductions to damage and the like from entering Cyrodiil.

As for buffs, the biggest changes they went into was trying to make caster sorcs a bit more powerful vs pet builds, which is why they increased the lightning splash dot to help long term dps and the reason they added the spell power increase b/c pets scale off of max magicka and won't get the increase with spell power, only sorc spells and staff abilities will get a benefit from that.

You complained about lack of constructive comments, but your reasoning about the usefulness of the lighting splash is as flawed as is the reasoning of the devs that thought it would help sorcs DPS. That skill is a joke, no one will use it as it's so avoidable just moving out of it since it's aoe is so small and even with the buff the damage is so low. You want to be taken serious then you need to give us good arguments and not pathetic excuses for pathetic buffs on a pathetic skill.

Sorry, but insults are pretty sad. - Insult, suggesting his comment was only insults and thus saying he's sad

Once you head down that road, you are getting desperate. - Insult, suggesting comments that don't agree with you and don't have numbers must be desperate

If you truly think they are "pathetic excuses" then maybe a rational discussion is a waste of time with you. - Insult, calling him a waste of time

The skill is not a joke, I wonder about your own ability if you cannot make use of it even now. - Insult, another wording for l2p

For a person trying to stay above insults, you seem pretty willing to use them.

I have no problem heading down that road if someone wants to, but be aware who jumped to insults first and started things down a less constructive path.

*Cowers in fear of ever getting into some "insult" battle with a game forum warrior.*

Who cares about someone cowering in fear? Is this some sort of "battle" to you? lol I'm sorry if that statement made your entire creation above non-applicable. I stated my opinions in my initial posts in this thread, I didn't sling insults, I didn't throw around stuff like QQing or anything like that, but I got insults and lols from people (even on posts that aren't part of the argument just b/c guys are trying to be vindictive) so there is a little too much irrationality going on here I think. My point isn't to get into an insult war, just to point out that I also wasn't trying to "rise above" anything. It's a shame and it's why threads like this will get overlooked. There are some improvements still needed on sorcs, but this isn't the way to go about seeing them.

Gyudan

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

The chief buff I had to look forward to, power overload damage was just double-nerfed in both ultimate generation and damage, despite it being the most easily countered ability in the game.

Triple nerfed*, lower dmg, loss of ult gen and increased cost w/ loss of expert mage.

The only saving grace for me is that both on live and pts I only use hardened ward + healing ward. Now I'll just add harness magicka again and be back to having big shields against mag builds.

I don't think overload received a cost reduction from Expert Mage did it? I thought the tooltip specifically says magicka costs.

I've only tested it with the passive already activated, so I can't really say. That's the first thing I'll be trying after downloading the 10GB patch.

Saint_JiubB14_ESO

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

The chief buff I had to look forward to, power overload damage was just double-nerfed in both ultimate generation and damage, despite it being the most easily countered ability in the game.

Triple nerfed*, lower dmg, loss of ult gen and increased cost w/ loss of expert mage.

The only saving grace for me is that both on live and pts I only use hardened ward + healing ward. Now I'll just add harness magicka again and be back to having big shields against mag builds.

I don't think overload received a cost reduction from Expert Mage did it? I thought the tooltip specifically says magicka costs.

Nope, ALL, storm calling abilities.

Ezareth

Saint_JiubB14_ESO wrote: »

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

The chief buff I had to look forward to, power overload damage was just double-nerfed in both ultimate generation and damage, despite it being the most easily countered ability in the game.

Triple nerfed*, lower dmg, loss of ult gen and increased cost w/ loss of expert mage.

The only saving grace for me is that both on live and pts I only use hardened ward + healing ward. Now I'll just add harness magicka again and be back to having big shields against mag builds.

I don't think overload received a cost reduction from Expert Mage did it? I thought the tooltip specifically says magicka costs.

Nope, ALL, storm calling abilities.

If that's the case they better apply the reduction to the base cost of Overload.

And reduce the Bolt Escape penalty to +40% at the very least.

cschwingeb14_ESO

The most recent overload nerf is not really a concern, but maybe they wanted to make sure we never use overload heavy attacks. The 50% overload light attack buff (I crit an NPC for 20k last night with optimized gear and skills but no outside of buffs) overshadows most of the recent changes.

The fact that it can't generate ultimate is just plain fair, compared to other ults

Expert Mage is a straight up nerf

Vis

xaraan wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

nun_nonrb19_ESO wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Even if it was that you use only class abilities on one bar, that's 12% spell damage only. That stat is rediculously overvalued by people who really don't have an idea of how little extra damage/healing it provides.

I don't see any big nerfs and I personally think 15% decrease on damage shields is only fair. If you can crit damage shields that is a whole different matter.

Overall I don't see big nerfs (apart from critting shields maybe) and no mentionable buffs either.

I agree with you mostly, just wanted to comment on some issues you raise.

Well, the shield change is a PvP thing that effects all classes and was done because of how easy it is to stack shields in Cyro now. It will still be easy and that 15% won't hold back players that do it, it's just to bring it in line with the other 15% reductions to damage and the like from entering Cyrodiil.

As for buffs, the biggest changes they went into was trying to make caster sorcs a bit more powerful vs pet builds, which is why they increased the lightning splash dot to help long term dps and the reason they added the spell power increase b/c pets scale off of max magicka and won't get the increase with spell power, only sorc spells and staff abilities will get a benefit from that.

You complained about lack of constructive comments, but your reasoning about the usefulness of the lighting splash is as flawed as is the reasoning of the devs that thought it would help sorcs DPS. That skill is a joke, no one will use it as it's so avoidable just moving out of it since it's aoe is so small and even with the buff the damage is so low. You want to be taken serious then you need to give us good arguments and not pathetic excuses for pathetic buffs on a pathetic skill.

Sorry, but insults are pretty sad. - Insult, suggesting his comment was only insults and thus saying he's sad

Once you head down that road, you are getting desperate. - Insult, suggesting comments that don't agree with you and don't have numbers must be desperate

If you truly think they are "pathetic excuses" then maybe a rational discussion is a waste of time with you. - Insult, calling him a waste of time

The skill is not a joke, I wonder about your own ability if you cannot make use of it even now. - Insult, another wording for l2p

For a person trying to stay above insults, you seem pretty willing to use them.

I have no problem heading down that road if someone wants to, but be aware who jumped to insults first and started things down a less constructive path.

*Cowers in fear of ever getting into some "insult" battle with a game forum warrior.*

It's a shame and it's why threads like this will get overlooked. There are some improvements still needed on sorcs, but this isn't the way to go about seeing them.

Not according to your original post on this thread:

xaraan wrote: »

Most of the changes are for the better IMO.

Overload is way OP, some just aren't using it effectively to see how OP it can be.

Lightning Splash lasting longer and being a better DoT is a good thing. As is increasing spell damage for Expert Mage, I'd rather have that than a little more cost reduction. I can see how a stam sorc might not like it, but realistically a bonus like that should be more helpful to a caster than a stam user IMO, they have plenty of tools for doing damage already and have a different resource to worry about.

If you don't want everyone laughing at you, don't make such ridiculous statements like all these changes being "better."

Ezareth

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

The most recent overload nerf is not really a concern, but maybe they wanted to make sure we never use overload heavy attacks. The 50% overload light attack buff (I crit an NPC for 20k last night with optimized gear and skills but no outside of buffs) overshadows most of the recent changes.

The fact that it can't generate ultimate is just plain fair, compared to other ults

Expert Mage is a straight up nerf

Don't forget you crit for 20K with *3600 champion points* which includes a 24* damage buff to elemental damage as well as 25% bonus crit and likely around 40K magicka due to your champion point spent.

Anyone who is trying to get a feel for how things will play by playing on a 3600 CP character is in for a surprise when this patch goes live.

Wahee

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

Going on memory, Surge is going to cost about 4.5k for medium armor sorcs? That's unusable. Streak at over 3k?

Guess how much cloak costs for medium NB's. Go ahead....guess. Guess how many times it breaks early too. Those are not high costs for utility skills, and definitely not "unusable." Consider that those skills actually work every time too.

Emma_Overload

I don't even care about these nerfs until they remove the Critical Surge cooldown... a DEAD Sorc feels no nerfs!

Vis

xaraan wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

nun_nonrb19_ESO wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Even if it was that you use only class abilities on one bar, that's 12% spell damage only. That stat is rediculously overvalued by people who really don't have an idea of how little extra damage/healing it provides.

I don't see any big nerfs and I personally think 15% decrease on damage shields is only fair. If you can crit damage shields that is a whole different matter.

Overall I don't see big nerfs (apart from critting shields maybe) and no mentionable buffs either.

I agree with you mostly, just wanted to comment on some issues you raise.

Well, the shield change is a PvP thing that effects all classes and was done because of how easy it is to stack shields in Cyro now. It will still be easy and that 15% won't hold back players that do it, it's just to bring it in line with the other 15% reductions to damage and the like from entering Cyrodiil.

As for buffs, the biggest changes they went into was trying to make caster sorcs a bit more powerful vs pet builds, which is why they increased the lightning splash dot to help long term dps and the reason they added the spell power increase b/c pets scale off of max magicka and won't get the increase with spell power, only sorc spells and staff abilities will get a benefit from that.

You complained about lack of constructive comments, but your reasoning about the usefulness of the lighting splash is as flawed as is the reasoning of the devs that thought it would help sorcs DPS. That skill is a joke, no one will use it as it's so avoidable just moving out of it since it's aoe is so small and even with the buff the damage is so low. You want to be taken serious then you need to give us good arguments and not pathetic excuses for pathetic buffs on a pathetic skill.

Sorry, but insults are pretty sad. - Insult, suggesting his comment was only insults and thus saying he's sad

Once you head down that road, you are getting desperate. - Insult, suggesting comments that don't agree with you and don't have numbers must be desperate

If you truly think they are "pathetic excuses" then maybe a rational discussion is a waste of time with you. - Insult, calling him a waste of time

The skill is not a joke, I wonder about your own ability if you cannot make use of it even now. - Insult, another wording for l2p

For a person trying to stay above insults, you seem pretty willing to use them.

I have no problem heading down that road if someone wants to, but be aware who jumped to insults first and started things down a less constructive path.

*Cowers in fear of ever getting into some "insult" battle with a game forum warrior.*

There are some improvements still needed on sorcs, but this isn't the way to go about seeing them.

Also, if you go back and read, many of us have already tried being constructive. Most of us have already posted the numbers. Most of us already discussed the math as to what xyz spell power increase would compare to dps. Most of us have already tried the civil routes.

Are we going to stop trying? Of course not. But you're waltzing in minutes after all of us in the sorc community have been pissed on and telling us it's rain. Just because you're buddy buddy with the devs, doesn't make us feel any better about being screwed.

nun_nonrb19_ESO

xaraan wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

nun_nonrb19_ESO wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Even if it was that you use only class abilities on one bar, that's 12% spell damage only. That stat is rediculously overvalued by people who really don't have an idea of how little extra damage/healing it provides.

I don't see any big nerfs and I personally think 15% decrease on damage shields is only fair. If you can crit damage shields that is a whole different matter.

Overall I don't see big nerfs (apart from critting shields maybe) and no mentionable buffs either.

I agree with you mostly, just wanted to comment on some issues you raise.

Well, the shield change is a PvP thing that effects all classes and was done because of how easy it is to stack shields in Cyro now. It will still be easy and that 15% won't hold back players that do it, it's just to bring it in line with the other 15% reductions to damage and the like from entering Cyrodiil.

As for buffs, the biggest changes they went into was trying to make caster sorcs a bit more powerful vs pet builds, which is why they increased the lightning splash dot to help long term dps and the reason they added the spell power increase b/c pets scale off of max magicka and won't get the increase with spell power, only sorc spells and staff abilities will get a benefit from that.

You complained about lack of constructive comments, but your reasoning about the usefulness of the lighting splash is as flawed as is the reasoning of the devs that thought it would help sorcs DPS. That skill is a joke, no one will use it as it's so avoidable just moving out of it since it's aoe is so small and even with the buff the damage is so low. You want to be taken serious then you need to give us good arguments and not pathetic excuses for pathetic buffs on a pathetic skill.

Sorry, but insults are pretty sad. - Insult, suggesting his comment was only insults and thus saying he's sad

Once you head down that road, you are getting desperate. - Insult, suggesting comments that don't agree with you and don't have numbers must be desperate

If you truly think they are "pathetic excuses" then maybe a rational discussion is a waste of time with you. - Insult, calling him a waste of time

The skill is not a joke, I wonder about your own ability if you cannot make use of it even now. - Insult, another wording for l2p

For a person trying to stay above insults, you seem pretty willing to use them.

I have no problem heading down that road if someone wants to, but be aware who jumped to insults first and started things down a less constructive path. Don't confuse that. (Also, me saying one part of his comment was an insult isn't dismissive of his entire comment, which is why I said more in response to his other stuff. edit: nor is saying a rational discussion with someone is a waste of time is saying that the person is a waste of time - and spinning the facts is a bit dishonest of you.)

Well, probably my wording was a bit too out of order but since sorcs have been hammered left and right with nerfs and useless skills it got on my nerves you coming in stating that it's great the buff they did to lightning splash and that our class is just great and all but most of us just don't appreciate all the nice things SoZ been doing for us. Sorry for the strong words, my anger is not with you. Still I can't really agree that you say lightning splash is a viable aoe but to each it's own.

cschwingeb14_ESO

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

Don't forget you crit for 20K with *3600 champion points* which includes a 24* damage buff to elemental damage as well as 25% bonus crit and likely around 40K magicka due to your champion point spent.

Well, I wasn't clear about it, but I didn't use a template character. I probably had about 50 CP spent. Martial Knowledge, Adroitness, Healer and a Master Resto Staff combined to give me something like 1800 spell damage. Then Mage light, bound armor and ?? to get 30k magicka. I had 20 stat points in health, rest in magicka.

Degeneration for the spell power buff, and the Might of the guild passive rounded out the self buffs. I *did* say optimized gear and skills. It probably also got the 10% from martial knowledge

xaraan

Vis wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

nun_nonrb19_ESO wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Even if it was that you use only class abilities on one bar, that's 12% spell damage only. That stat is rediculously overvalued by people who really don't have an idea of how little extra damage/healing it provides.

I don't see any big nerfs and I personally think 15% decrease on damage shields is only fair. If you can crit damage shields that is a whole different matter.

Overall I don't see big nerfs (apart from critting shields maybe) and no mentionable buffs either.

I agree with you mostly, just wanted to comment on some issues you raise.

Well, the shield change is a PvP thing that effects all classes and was done because of how easy it is to stack shields in Cyro now. It will still be easy and that 15% won't hold back players that do it, it's just to bring it in line with the other 15% reductions to damage and the like from entering Cyrodiil.

As for buffs, the biggest changes they went into was trying to make caster sorcs a bit more powerful vs pet builds, which is why they increased the lightning splash dot to help long term dps and the reason they added the spell power increase b/c pets scale off of max magicka and won't get the increase with spell power, only sorc spells and staff abilities will get a benefit from that.

You complained about lack of constructive comments, but your reasoning about the usefulness of the lighting splash is as flawed as is the reasoning of the devs that thought it would help sorcs DPS. That skill is a joke, no one will use it as it's so avoidable just moving out of it since it's aoe is so small and even with the buff the damage is so low. You want to be taken serious then you need to give us good arguments and not pathetic excuses for pathetic buffs on a pathetic skill.

Sorry, but insults are pretty sad. - Insult, suggesting his comment was only insults and thus saying he's sad

Once you head down that road, you are getting desperate. - Insult, suggesting comments that don't agree with you and don't have numbers must be desperate

If you truly think they are "pathetic excuses" then maybe a rational discussion is a waste of time with you. - Insult, calling him a waste of time

The skill is not a joke, I wonder about your own ability if you cannot make use of it even now. - Insult, another wording for l2p

For a person trying to stay above insults, you seem pretty willing to use them.

I have no problem heading down that road if someone wants to, but be aware who jumped to insults first and started things down a less constructive path.

*Cowers in fear of ever getting into some "insult" battle with a game forum warrior.*

It's a shame and it's why threads like this will get overlooked. There are some improvements still needed on sorcs, but this isn't the way to go about seeing them.

Not according to your original post on this thread:

xaraan wrote: »

Most of the changes are for the better IMO.

Overload is way OP, some just aren't using it effectively to see how OP it can be.

Lightning Splash lasting longer and being a better DoT is a good thing. As is increasing spell damage for Expert Mage, I'd rather have that than a little more cost reduction. I can see how a stam sorc might not like it, but realistically a bonus like that should be more helpful to a caster than a stam user IMO, they have plenty of tools for doing damage already and have a different resource to worry about.

If you don't want everyone laughing at you, don't make such ridiculous statements like all these changes being "better."

How so? I mean, other than throwing out an insult here, you really said nothing.

You really think b/c I didn't hate two changes that that means I don't think any other changes are needed? lol, c'mon man, you are proving my point on the whole irrational thing.

I'd much rather see them adjust the magicka cost of some of the skills than change Expert Mage back, keep the extra spell damage and correct some of the costs for taking away that 10%. But I'd much rather see that extra damage that you get for slotting skills that will only help a caster sorc and not boost the pet build.