Sorcerer Feedback for Eric Wrobel and the Combat Team

Derra

xaraan wrote: »

I like the changes myself, BUT... I think something else is needed:

The change to Expert Mage is cool (might need to give it a little more boost, but would wanna test first), but to really consider this change a good one you should probably bring down the cost on some of the skills in the tree now for losing the cost reduction. I do like that spell damage boost though as it will give sorcs harder hitting powers outside of the tree, especially with something like a staff vs other classes and will give caster sorcs the boost without giving that same boost to pet builds. Just want to see how worthwhile it is, as it might need to be a notch higher.

Actually pet builds will benefit the most from expert mage - they slot 4 sorc skills on their main bar and 3 on their off bar. Can´t think of a weapon build that does the same?

Morvul

Derra wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

I like the changes myself, BUT... I think something else is needed:

The change to Expert Mage is cool (might need to give it a little more boost, but would wanna test first), but to really consider this change a good one you should probably bring down the cost on some of the skills in the tree now for losing the cost reduction. I do like that spell damage boost though as it will give sorcs harder hitting powers outside of the tree, especially with something like a staff vs other classes and will give caster sorcs the boost without giving that same boost to pet builds. Just want to see how worthwhile it is, as it might need to be a notch higher.

Actually pet builds will benefit the most from expert mage - they slot 4 sorc skills on their main bar and 3 on their off bar. Can´t think of a weapon build that does the same?

but pets do not scale with spellpower. So while a pet-build togglemancer will have quite some sorc skills on his bar - most of them actually gain no benefit from this new expert mage passive.

The new expert mage is pretty much exlusively usefull to "pure" spell-slingers. And if for them it is better then the old cost-reduction is debateable.

Derra

Morvul wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

I like the changes myself, BUT... I think something else is needed:

The change to Expert Mage is cool (might need to give it a little more boost, but would wanna test first), but to really consider this change a good one you should probably bring down the cost on some of the skills in the tree now for losing the cost reduction. I do like that spell damage boost though as it will give sorcs harder hitting powers outside of the tree, especially with something like a staff vs other classes and will give caster sorcs the boost without giving that same boost to pet builds. Just want to see how worthwhile it is, as it might need to be a notch higher.

Actually pet builds will benefit the most from expert mage - they slot 4 sorc skills on their main bar and 3 on their off bar. Can´t think of a weapon build that does the same?

but pets do not scale with spellpower. So while a pet-build togglemancer will have quite some sorc skills on his bar - most of them actually gain no benefit from this new expert mage passive.

The new expert mage is pretty much exlusively usefull to "pure" spell-slingers. And if for them it is better then the old cost-reduction is debateable.

Since you will be spamming crystal fragments + light attack (and 6s curse) with a petbuild which are scaling just fine with spellpower and make up about 70% of your total dps i don´t understand where you´re coming from.
Your nuke will get the bonus thats whats important?

Maulkin

Derra wrote: »

Morvul wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

I like the changes myself, BUT... I think something else is needed:

The change to Expert Mage is cool (might need to give it a little more boost, but would wanna test first), but to really consider this change a good one you should probably bring down the cost on some of the skills in the tree now for losing the cost reduction. I do like that spell damage boost though as it will give sorcs harder hitting powers outside of the tree, especially with something like a staff vs other classes and will give caster sorcs the boost without giving that same boost to pet builds. Just want to see how worthwhile it is, as it might need to be a notch higher.

Actually pet builds will benefit the most from expert mage - they slot 4 sorc skills on their main bar and 3 on their off bar. Can´t think of a weapon build that does the same?

but pets do not scale with spellpower. So while a pet-build togglemancer will have quite some sorc skills on his bar - most of them actually gain no benefit from this new expert mage passive.

The new expert mage is pretty much exlusively usefull to "pure" spell-slingers. And if for them it is better then the old cost-reduction is debateable.

Since you will be spamming crystal fragments + light attack (and 6s curse) with a petbuild which are scaling just fine with spellpower and make up about 70% of your total dps i don´t understand where you´re coming from.
Your nuke will get the bonus thats whats important?

But the nerf to Crushing Shock has only been to Crushing Shock right? That means Force Pulse has still full power. That means in PvE you're still better off using Force Pulse than Frags as your only non-pet damage. Am I right? (Genuine question, not being sarcastic).

Teargrants

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Morvul wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

I like the changes myself, BUT... I think something else is needed:

The change to Expert Mage is cool (might need to give it a little more boost, but would wanna test first), but to really consider this change a good one you should probably bring down the cost on some of the skills in the tree now for losing the cost reduction. I do like that spell damage boost though as it will give sorcs harder hitting powers outside of the tree, especially with something like a staff vs other classes and will give caster sorcs the boost without giving that same boost to pet builds. Just want to see how worthwhile it is, as it might need to be a notch higher.

Actually pet builds will benefit the most from expert mage - they slot 4 sorc skills on their main bar and 3 on their off bar. Can´t think of a weapon build that does the same?

but pets do not scale with spellpower. So while a pet-build togglemancer will have quite some sorc skills on his bar - most of them actually gain no benefit from this new expert mage passive.

The new expert mage is pretty much exlusively usefull to "pure" spell-slingers. And if for them it is better then the old cost-reduction is debateable.

Since you will be spamming crystal fragments + light attack (and 6s curse) with a petbuild which are scaling just fine with spellpower and make up about 70% of your total dps i don´t understand where you´re coming from.
Your nuke will get the bonus thats whats important?

But the nerf to Crushing Shock has only been to Crushing Shock right? That means Force Pulse has still full power. That means in PvE you're still better off using Force Pulse than Frags as your only non-pet damage. Am I right? (Genuine question, not being sarcastic).

Eric stated that in ESO Live, however it wasn't correct at the time, and still isn't in 1.6.3 afaik. Both Crushing Shock and Force Pulse morphs had 10% decreased dmg.

ToRelax

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

I love how some of the Sorcs, complain and just swear that their class is the only one who have issues dealing with certain mechanics.

If you honestly don't think other classes have the same "Rock/Paper/Scissors" meta to deal with, I don't know what to say.

And while I am at it, I'm going to mention that I do play a Sorc, and don't have most of the issues some folks on here are complaining about.

This really is all about "The grass is greener" on the other classes.

Fact is, Sorcs have an amazing took kit. While your playstyle may have been effected in 1.6. We have to tools to adjust.

Part of your endless stream of "we" when you mean "my bank alt" while you win at everything on your dk.

Sorc's don't have a toolkit. They have a broken box without a lid with big gaping holes in it that is partially filled with tools for things you don't need them for. Reach for the wrench and find a unsharpened corkscrew.

Oh, Sorcs have an amazing toolkit for every situation you could imagine, we just miss some important things like an instant nuke or a selfheal. Of course it's the class shield others will complain about, as the rest of the skills is fairly situational.

daemonios

Teargrants wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Morvul wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

I like the changes myself, BUT... I think something else is needed:

The change to Expert Mage is cool (might need to give it a little more boost, but would wanna test first), but to really consider this change a good one you should probably bring down the cost on some of the skills in the tree now for losing the cost reduction. I do like that spell damage boost though as it will give sorcs harder hitting powers outside of the tree, especially with something like a staff vs other classes and will give caster sorcs the boost without giving that same boost to pet builds. Just want to see how worthwhile it is, as it might need to be a notch higher.

Actually pet builds will benefit the most from expert mage - they slot 4 sorc skills on their main bar and 3 on their off bar. Can´t think of a weapon build that does the same?

but pets do not scale with spellpower. So while a pet-build togglemancer will have quite some sorc skills on his bar - most of them actually gain no benefit from this new expert mage passive.

The new expert mage is pretty much exlusively usefull to "pure" spell-slingers. And if for them it is better then the old cost-reduction is debateable.

Since you will be spamming crystal fragments + light attack (and 6s curse) with a petbuild which are scaling just fine with spellpower and make up about 70% of your total dps i don´t understand where you´re coming from.
Your nuke will get the bonus thats whats important?

But the nerf to Crushing Shock has only been to Crushing Shock right? That means Force Pulse has still full power. That means in PvE you're still better off using Force Pulse than Frags as your only non-pet damage. Am I right? (Genuine question, not being sarcastic).

Eric stated that in ESO Live, however it wasn't correct at the time, and still isn't in 1.6.3 afaik. Both Crushing Shock and Force Pulse morphs had 10% decreased dmg.

I went for Force Pulse anyway, but still haven't decided whether it's better to use that or Destructive Reach for weaving. Done a bit of testing on PTS this morning, the results are posted here. TLDR: 15.8k DPS on Nomeg Rine (world boss).

Derra

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Morvul wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

I like the changes myself, BUT... I think something else is needed:

The change to Expert Mage is cool (might need to give it a little more boost, but would wanna test first), but to really consider this change a good one you should probably bring down the cost on some of the skills in the tree now for losing the cost reduction. I do like that spell damage boost though as it will give sorcs harder hitting powers outside of the tree, especially with something like a staff vs other classes and will give caster sorcs the boost without giving that same boost to pet builds. Just want to see how worthwhile it is, as it might need to be a notch higher.

Actually pet builds will benefit the most from expert mage - they slot 4 sorc skills on their main bar and 3 on their off bar. Can´t think of a weapon build that does the same?

but pets do not scale with spellpower. So while a pet-build togglemancer will have quite some sorc skills on his bar - most of them actually gain no benefit from this new expert mage passive.

The new expert mage is pretty much exlusively usefull to "pure" spell-slingers. And if for them it is better then the old cost-reduction is debateable.

Since you will be spamming crystal fragments + light attack (and 6s curse) with a petbuild which are scaling just fine with spellpower and make up about 70% of your total dps i don´t understand where you´re coming from.
Your nuke will get the bonus thats whats important?

But the nerf to Crushing Shock has only been to Crushing Shock right? That means Force Pulse has still full power. That means in PvE you're still better off using Force Pulse than Frags as your only non-pet damage. Am I right? (Genuine question, not being sarcastic).

As of 1.6 you can light attack weave Fragemnts/Blast with the same speed as crushing shock / force pulse. Therefor dmgwise it is strictly superior to hardcast crytal fragements / blast than to use crushing shock / force pulse (if you can sustain your magica bc it costs about 40% more).

Grao

C0pp3rhead wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

*hug* Maybe we should create a support group? OSA - Outraged Sorcerers Anonymous? Or better! OSO Outraged Sorcerers Online!

Enraged Sorcerers Online.
Derp.

Perfect!

Grao

C0pp3rhead wrote: »

Let me see if I understand:
The vast majority of Sorcs are outraged because:
Endgame PvE dps.
PvP is fine. Leveling is ok. Soloing is a non-issue. Non-veteran Dungeons are acceptable.
But Sorcs are excluded from high-end PvE content.
Why? Even the most skilled sorc players achieve barely acceptable dps.
Fixing the way that trial scores are evaluated will not change things.
Time can always be improved, other variables cannot.
All enemies killed with 0 deaths on hard mode, this is the max.
The higher the dps, the faster the time.
All else equal, dps will be the deciding factor in competitive PvE.
If I find myself in a 4-person group with a sorcerer, I pray that I'm not wasting my time.
A mediocre DK will be fine in almost any group as long as they follow directions.
An expert Sorc will have trouble getting an invite to a group that can complete SO.
A ground-based, expensive, AoE, DoT ability is not the answer.
A 5% increase in dps is not the answer.
Give sorcs the skills they need.

Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding! Bingo!

Lets go over sorcerer problems really fast:
- The Class still doesn't have a filler single target damage spell.
- Our class AoE is disappointing and becomes useful in PvE if you have the Valkyn Skoria set.
- Our so called DoT, Daedric Curse, doesn't tick. Instead it gives all its damage at the end, meaning it ionly has 1 chance of activating the already mentioned set bonus
- Pets and Mage Armor are great but they are still toggles you must keep in both bars leading to zero build flexibility. Not to mention the best morph for Mage armor is now stamina based.
- The cost of Storm Calling abilities is too high, specially Surge, a skill so similar to Entropy it might as well be the same, but that costs 3 or 4 times more Magicka.

Abilities that are just bad:
- Daedric Mines - Still in the wrong tree, still doesn't work well. It just doesn't do enough enough damage, in PvP it can be easily dodged and in PvE a boss can tap dance over them and still not activate a single one.
- Unstable Familiar: this pet needs some love. The damage is too low and the fact it can tank is only useful for Solo PvE, nothing else. Give it a DoT, give an AoE, give it some decent damage. Anything really...
- Lighting Splash - A childish name for a silly ability. A 4 meters wide spell barely deserves to be called an AoE.
- Dark Conversion and morphs: Just a bad spell all around. Now that it is a toggle it will be a problem in PvP and since it is a channel it will be useless on PvE. Oh well...

Crogster

Morvul wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

I like the changes myself, BUT... I think something else is needed:

The change to Expert Mage is cool (might need to give it a little more boost, but would wanna test first), but to really consider this change a good one you should probably bring down the cost on some of the skills in the tree now for losing the cost reduction. I do like that spell damage boost though as it will give sorcs harder hitting powers outside of the tree, especially with something like a staff vs other classes and will give caster sorcs the boost without giving that same boost to pet builds. Just want to see how worthwhile it is, as it might need to be a notch higher.

Actually pet builds will benefit the most from expert mage - they slot 4 sorc skills on their main bar and 3 on their off bar. Can´t think of a weapon build that does the same?

but pets do not scale with spellpower. So while a pet-build togglemancer will have quite some sorc skills on his bar - most of them actually gain no benefit from this new expert mage passive.

The new expert mage is pretty much exlusively usefull to "pure" spell-slingers. And if for them it is better then the old cost-reduction is debateable.

ok my early morning calculations were way off but i am more awake now and on pts and this passive is not boasting pet builds...........

Sacadon

Xeniph wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

I love how most of the non-Sorc answers to how to fix our F'd up Class Skills involves countering with a specific Weapon Skill.

"Your class skills aren't broken, just don't use class skills."

FFS.

I love how some of the Sorcs, complain and just swear that their class is the only one who have issues dealing with certain mechanics.

If you honestly don't think other classes have the same "Rock/Paper/Scissors" meta to deal with, I don't know what to say.

And while I am at it, I'm going to mention that I do play a Sorc, and don't have most of the issues some folks on here are complaining about.

This really is all about "The grass is greener" on the other classes.

Fact is, Sorcs have an amazing took kit. While your playstyle may have been effected in 1.6. We have to tools to adjust.

You play a Sorc and don't have the issues of the class, huh?

Please screenshot the class heal you, alone, received?

Please enlighten us how other classes have to rely primarily on particular weapons in order to be functional?

Please indicate the 3 skills in the other class lines that take 6 slots on your bar?

We're not saying other classes don't have to deal with certain mechanics issues - perhaps you should take that argument to those threads, hmm?

I think you mistake "I played a Sorc" for "I play a Sorc."

As requested: With a typical PvP bar setup.

Regarding self heals<img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020507/uploads/FileUpload/3b/06356106a61547ca0a42cc98e341a1.png&quot; />

Using these stats:

<img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020507/uploads/FileUpload/45/d11289a758c9bc5c99b2840ac4bf7e.png&quot; />

Now for a comparison, I went ahead and geared a NB exactly the same. Using all class passives, just as the Sorc. Since these 2 classes lack a reliable self heal (So you claim)

Typical PvP Caster NB bar/spec:

<img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020507/uploads/FileUpload/c7/d64f5bf3515109048eee83c89ccc98.png&quot; />

As you can see the results are nearly identical. Using the same mob/level. Except of coarse the NB had to spam 3 more skills than the Sorc.

But wait....there's more!

The Sorc actually does have an on demand heal. Hardened ward heals (Basically grants more health) for 8250, it's quite cheap completely reliable doesn't suffer from heal debuff effects and is spammable . <Deduct 15% in PvP>

<img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020507/uploads/FileUpload/01/c89c5c498319b291755e98c7796fc1.png&quot; />

These screes were taken tonight on the pts. Both Classes were using the same gear and typical specs. Also both used 3 spell cost reduction enchant on jewels.

Your other concern about dependency on weapon skills are moot, as the Sorc is NOT reliant on them any more than other classes/specs. A dependency on these lines is created by somebody's specific spec and playstyle.

As to the toggle abilities, they are choices you have. You surely don't have to have some of them on both bars. And in no way is the Sorc class non-functional if they don't use them. Just as some of the other classes toggles. I myself kinda like choices.

Now I challenge you to show screens, by comparison of your argument to the contrary. And like I said I PLAY my Sorc. Have a nice evening.

Thanks for taking time to compare the classes.

Some ?'s:
- The img links for the NB setup map back to sorc img's vs. a NB. Please update. EDIT: think I found them
- Why all in on magicka and no health, just for simple baseline?
- Can you also provide the CLS output or FTC summary for each? EDIT: think I found these in your chat output
- Any specific reason you didn't use the new OP skill lightning splash? (mostly sarcasm)


Please try the same setup against a pack of jackles and wasps in Craglorn using our new AoE combined with self-heal.

Single target damage using frags is not a surprise. Although not top DPS w/out CS still.

Gotta love NB, it's going to stay my main for PvP unless I can get some of these sorc issues sorted out

Snit

Crogster wrote: »

ok my early morning calculations were way off but i am more awake now and on pts and this passive is not boasting pet builds...........

It would not boost pet damage, but wouldn't it still boost pet builds? Pet builds have multiple sorc abilities on the bar. Assuming they also contain at least one nuke (or curse, for that matter), wouldn't the non-pet portion of the damage benefit from the extra spellpower?

As long as zookeepers and nukers do reasonably equivalent damage, it's fine.

indigoblades

Crogster wrote: »

I like the changes. If you think about the Sorc change with Expert mage it will increase our damage on spells such as force shock, crystal shards, pet damage etc by 6% if we have 3 sorcs spells for example on our bar aswell. I am keen to test this.

i just tested it and it is a 0.57%/spell. So that is closer to a 1.76% increase not 6%. Thats very little damage for a lot of cost reduction. My high magicka sorc ran out magacka over and over for the first time in Months.

3 sorc spells, Lightning Spash damage = 685
2 sorc spells, Lightning Spash damage = 681

Vis

To sum up some sorc frustrations:

The sorc is class is an amazing class with amazibg capabilities. However, all of our greatest strengths are also the game's most easily countered. For instance:

We have an amazing nuke...but it is usually reflected

We have an amazing gap opener...but it is usually instantly closed

We have an amazing dot...but it's usually blocked or purged

We have an amazing ultimate...but it too is usually reflected

We have amazing cc...but it's easily broken and costs too much

We have amazing toggle buffs...but they consume our chances for variety

We have an amazing dps/heal buff...but it costs too much, even for magicka users


I understand there is give and take. But the combination of these counters lead to very pigeon holed play that feels underwhelming. I now always build a dps bar and another far inferior anti-reflect dps bar, because that is how common and expected these counters are.

We need the devs to step back and consider changing one more of these counters, or giving us new skills to let us build out of this box we've been cornered into. For instance, make cf absorbable but un-reflectable and you will see a ton of us quiet down.

Septimus_Magna

The Expert Mage change is a nerf while they call it a buff. The 10% cost reduction far more useful than a couple % spell damage. The damage increase is no where near 10% so dmg/mag is reduced. Also one of our most useful pvp skills, bolt escape, costs a ton of magicka to cast. Especially when you try to use it for ESCAPING, for what is was designed! The loss of the 10% cost reduction is effectively 20% cost increase because bolt escape costs 50% more when you use it twice within 4 seconds. Make talons or whip cost 50% more if casted twice within 4 seconds and see what happens to the DKs for example. This really frustrates me because they talk about buffing and ruin one of the best skills. It would have been much smarter to just add the spell damage and leave the cost reduction, non of the lightning skill tree abilities do high damage anyways.

I'll guess we have to wait for spell crafting to balance the skills ourselfs because this is just ridiculous..

Joy_Division

Robbmrp wrote: »

One question I have for the Dev team is WHERE is the Sorceress that they depict on the Trailers? She is by no means a Pet manager and shows VERY destructive powers yet is nothing like an actual Sorcerer within the game. Those video's are VERY misleading letting consumers believe they can create a character like that. The lightning spells we have do very little damage when they should be the exact opposite. Those should be the most destructive spells. I'm not saying that we should be able to blow holes in keeps but it would be nice IMO if we could actually kill ONE THING with using just a couple of Lightning spells while NOT having to rely on skills outside the class line.

That Sorceress is in a better balanced game.

ToRelax

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

The Expert Mage change is a nerf while they call it a buff. The 10% cost reduction far more useful than a couple % spell damage. The damage increase is no where near 10% so dmg/mag is reduced. Also one of our most useful pvp skills, bolt escape, costs a ton of magicka to cast. Especially when you try to use it for ESCAPING, for what is was designed! The loss of the 10% cost reduction is effectively 20% cost increase because bolt escape costs 50% more when you use it twice within 4 seconds. Make talons or whip cost 50% more if casted twice within 4 seconds and see what happens to the DKs for example. This really frustrates me because they talk about buffing and ruin one of the best skills. It would have been much smarter to just add the spell damage and leave the cost reduction, non of the lightning skill tree abilities do high damage anyways.

I'll guess we have to wait for spell crafting to balance the skills ourselfs because this is just ridiculous..

To the bolded part - wrong. The percentage reduction does not apply to the cost increase, Expert Mage gave LESS cost reduction on Bolt Escape casted in succession.

I agree that the spell damage passive is to low, though.

Robbmrp

Teargrants wrote: »

Robbmrp wrote: »

One question I have for the Dev team is WHERE is the Sorceress that they depict on the Trailers? She is by no means a Pet manager and shows VERY destructive powers yet is nothing like an actual Sorcerer within the game. Those video's are VERY misleading letting consumers believe they can create a character like that.

After the trailer, they chained her back up and threw her in a hole, along with the scamp catapults never to see the light of day.

I guarantee that every new player rolling a Sorc is doing so because of the game videos. They make her seem so powerful yet the reality of it is far from it. Stormcalling abilities should be the MOST powerful imo for Sorcs. Not the weakest link!

Robbmrp

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Gyudan wrote: »

Sadly sorcerer seems to be the least effective class at stamina DPS and tanking, so I don't see much use in switching to 2H and S&B now.

I think that the 1.6 ranking will be somewhere around this in PVE endgame content:

Magicka DPS:
Dragonknight >= Templar >= Nightblade > Sorcerer

Stamina DPS:
Templar > Dragonknight >= Nightblade > Sorcerer

Healing:
Templar > Nightblade >> Sorcerer >> Dragonknight

Tanking:
Dragonknight > Templar > Nightblade >> Sorcerer

Rejoice! We're not the worst healers!

You forgot about the rock shield ability that gives dks extra healing (30%), unless they changed it in 1.6.

If they still have it, Sorcerer is also the worst healer.

If this is the way it's going to go with the 1.6 update then that is a serious problem. There are only going to be two classes worth rolling after 1.6, DK and Templars. There should NEVER be a Templar in the Stamina DPS lead imo and I have a V14 Templar!

For a TRUE class balance it should look like this.

Magicka DPS:
Sorcerer >= Templar >= Nightblade > Dragonknight

Stamina DPS:
Nightblade > Dragonknight >= Templar > Sorcerer

There's no denying the below.

Healing:
Templar > Nightblade >> Sorcerer >> Dragonknight

Tanking:
Dragonknight > Templar > Nightblade >> Sorcerer

Father

Derra wrote: »

As of 1.6 you can light attack weave Fragemnts/Blast with the same speed as crushing shock / force pulse. Therefor dmgwise it is strictly superior to hardcast crytal fragements / blast than to use crushing shock / force pulse (if you can sustain your magica bc it costs about 40% more).

I don't think its the same speed...there is a dps loss when using it due to cast time/channeling animation also.
Whats cool though whenever u hear the proc sound u can cast it instantly that really helps boosting dps.
Its not easy but needs practice.. weaving it with light attacks alone is not that great imo.Its really hard compared to other classes who enjoy channel free insta cast spells, NB comes to mind with funnel health for example, much more simpler.

Merlin13KAGL

Xeniph wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

I love how most of the non-Sorc answers to how to fix our F'd up Class Skills involves countering with a specific Weapon Skill.

"Your class skills aren't broken, just don't use class skills."

FFS.

I love how some of the Sorcs, complain and just swear that their class is the only one who have issues dealing with certain mechanics.

If you honestly don't think other classes have the same "Rock/Paper/Scissors" meta to deal with, I don't know what to say.

And while I am at it, I'm going to mention that I do play a Sorc, and don't have most of the issues some folks on here are complaining about.

This really is all about "The grass is greener" on the other classes.

Fact is, Sorcs have an amazing took kit. While your playstyle may have been effected in 1.6. We have to tools to adjust.

You play a Sorc and don't have the issues of the class, huh?

Please screenshot the class heal you, alone, received?

Please enlighten us how other classes have to rely primarily on particular weapons in order to be functional?

Please indicate the 3 skills in the other class lines that take 6 slots on your bar?

We're not saying other classes don't have to deal with certain mechanics issues - perhaps you should take that argument to those threads, hmm?

I think you mistake "I played a Sorc" for "I play a Sorc."

As requested: With a typical PvP bar setup.

Regarding self heals<img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020507/uploads/FileUpload/3b/06356106a61547ca0a42cc98e341a1.png&quot; />

Using these stats:

<img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020507/uploads/FileUpload/45/d11289a758c9bc5c99b2840ac4bf7e.png&quot; />

Now for a comparison, I went ahead and geared a NB exactly the same. Using all class passives, just as the Sorc. Since these 2 classes lack a reliable self heal (So you claim)

Typical PvP Caster NB bar/spec:

<img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020507/uploads/FileUpload/c7/d64f5bf3515109048eee83c89ccc98.png&quot; />

As you can see the results are nearly identical. Using the same mob/level. Except of coarse the NB had to spam 3 more skills than the Sorc.

But wait....there's more!

The Sorc actually does have an on demand heal. Hardened ward heals (Basically grants more health) for 8250, it's quite cheap completely reliable doesn't suffer from heal debuff effects and is spammable . <Deduct 15% in PvP>

<img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020507/uploads/FileUpload/01/c89c5c498319b291755e98c7796fc1.png&quot; />

These screes were taken tonight on the pts. Both Classes were using the same gear and typical specs. Also both used 3 spell cost reduction enchant on jewels.

Your other concern about dependency on weapon skills are moot, as the Sorc is NOT reliant on them any more than other classes/specs. A dependency on these lines is created by somebody's specific spec and playstyle.

As to the toggle abilities, they are choices you have. You surely don't have to have some of them on both bars. And in no way is the Sorc class non-functional if they don't use them. Just as some of the other classes toggles. I myself kinda like choices.

Now I challenge you to show screens, by comparison of your argument to the contrary. And like I said I PLAY my Sorc. Have a nice evening.

I think you've got me, but I'll give it a shot:

Point 1:

• You fought a bear.
• You fought a bear.
• You fought a bear, of unknown rank (We'll give you the benefit and call it a VR14 bear (Grrr!)) from ranged...

Point 2: You only covered half of Hardened Ward as a heal.

• According to you, Hardened Ward is a heal - it 'adds' to health.
• Countering with your 'logic,' Hardened Ward does damage: According to the not-tool-tip, "Upon spell expiration, caster suffers damage equal to the remaining value of Hardened Ward."
• Hardened Ward is not a heal any more than 2 hour Epic food is a heal (it, too, adds to health.)

Point 3: When the replies to issues involve use this weapon skill, whether the heal from 2H, the heal from Restro, or the heal from a potion/external healer, it does not affect all classes the same.

I don't have issue with Sorc. I've made it work up to now, I will make it work after.

It's okay to not know. However, don't come here to dismiss everyone's concerns based on your vast single target ranged bear experiences.

Step into normal Spindle, first trash mob, scaled to Vet 1 even, then post results, and then maybe we'll talk.

Wasps work too, in Crag, as someone else suggested. Hint: they don't stand still and wait for you to frag them all.

Septimus_Magna

I went over the Sorcerer passives last night and I have a solution for the, imo terrible, changes to the Expert Mage passive!

1. Make the Expert Mage passive like it was before: 10% cost reduction for lightning spells, these spells dont do much damage anyway so it wont make Sorcerers too powerful. We need this 10% reduction for our execute (Mages Fury) during long PVE boss fights!

2. Change the Daedric Protection passive to Deadric Power passive, which increases spell power by 2% for each sorcerer ability slotted. The current health regen bonus from Daedric Protection is very underwhelming, Sorcerers cant rely on health regen so its really a useless passive.

Please Eric Wrobel and/or @ZOS_GinaBruno consider these small changes to make magicka Sorcerers on par with other magicka DPS classes.

Xeniph

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

I love how most of the non-Sorc answers to how to fix our F'd up Class Skills involves countering with a specific Weapon Skill.

"Your class skills aren't broken, just don't use class skills."

FFS.

I love how some of the Sorcs, complain and just swear that their class is the only one who have issues dealing with certain mechanics.

If you honestly don't think other classes have the same "Rock/Paper/Scissors" meta to deal with, I don't know what to say.

And while I am at it, I'm going to mention that I do play a Sorc, and don't have most of the issues some folks on here are complaining about.

This really is all about "The grass is greener" on the other classes.

Fact is, Sorcs have an amazing took kit. While your playstyle may have been effected in 1.6. We have to tools to adjust.

You play a Sorc and don't have the issues of the class, huh?

Please screenshot the class heal you, alone, received?

Please enlighten us how other classes have to rely primarily on particular weapons in order to be functional?

Please indicate the 3 skills in the other class lines that take 6 slots on your bar?

We're not saying other classes don't have to deal with certain mechanics issues - perhaps you should take that argument to those threads, hmm?

I think you mistake "I played a Sorc" for "I play a Sorc."

As requested: With a typical PvP bar setup.

Regarding self heals<img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020507/uploads/FileUpload/3b/06356106a61547ca0a42cc98e341a1.png&quot; />

Using these stats:

<img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020507/uploads/FileUpload/45/d11289a758c9bc5c99b2840ac4bf7e.png&quot; />

Now for a comparison, I went ahead and geared a NB exactly the same. Using all class passives, just as the Sorc. Since these 2 classes lack a reliable self heal (So you claim)

Typical PvP Caster NB bar/spec:

<img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020507/uploads/FileUpload/c7/d64f5bf3515109048eee83c89ccc98.png&quot; />

As you can see the results are nearly identical. Using the same mob/level. Except of coarse the NB had to spam 3 more skills than the Sorc.

But wait....there's more!

The Sorc actually does have an on demand heal. Hardened ward heals (Basically grants more health) for 8250, it's quite cheap completely reliable doesn't suffer from heal debuff effects and is spammable . <Deduct 15% in PvP>

<img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020507/uploads/FileUpload/01/c89c5c498319b291755e98c7796fc1.png&quot; />

These screes were taken tonight on the pts. Both Classes were using the same gear and typical specs. Also both used 3 spell cost reduction enchant on jewels.

Your other concern about dependency on weapon skills are moot, as the Sorc is NOT reliant on them any more than other classes/specs. A dependency on these lines is created by somebody's specific spec and playstyle.

As to the toggle abilities, they are choices you have. You surely don't have to have some of them on both bars. And in no way is the Sorc class non-functional if they don't use them. Just as some of the other classes toggles. I myself kinda like choices.

Now I challenge you to show screens, by comparison of your argument to the contrary. And like I said I PLAY my Sorc. Have a nice evening.

I think you've got me, but I'll give it a shot:

Point 1:

• You fought a bear.
• You fought a bear.
• You fought a bear, of unknown rank (We'll give you the benefit and call it a VR14 bear (Grrr!)) from ranged...

Point 2: You only covered half of Hardened Ward as a heal.

• According to you, Hardened Ward is a heal - it 'adds' to health.
• Countering with your 'logic,' Hardened Ward does damage: According to the not-tool-tip, "Upon spell expiration, caster suffers damage equal to the remaining value of Hardened Ward."
• Hardened Ward is not a heal any more than 2 hour Epic food is a heal (it, too, adds to health.)

Point 3: When the replies to issues involve use this weapon skill, whether the heal from 2H, the heal from Restro, or the heal from a potion/external healer, it does not affect all classes the same.

I don't have issue with Sorc. I've made it work up to now, I will make it work after.

It's okay to not know. However, don't come here to dismiss everyone's concerns based on your vast single target ranged bear experiences.

Step into normal Spindle, first trash mob, scaled to Vet 1 even, then post results, and then maybe we'll talk.

Wasps work too, in Crag, as someone else suggested. Hint: they don't stand still and wait for you to frag them all.

It doesn't matter what target I used. The fact is Sorcs do have some self healing, and it's quite comparable to the NB. I proved that, regardless of target.

Regarding Hardened Ward, you logic is flawed (though clever).

Hardened Ward is essentially a heal and adds health. However I could have been a bit more accurate and said instead-

Hardened Ward protects your health pool. Which in no way suggests you lose health, on your bar. But we both know you were just being facetious. Or you could argue it's better than a heal, because it prevents more damage than any heal actually heals for in the game, while still being immune to crits and heal debuffs. You can literally spam it to prevent thousands and thousands of damage, should you want to do that. ( I actually did this for 5 minutes today on the PTS)

Is it Green Dragon's Blood/Healing Ritual/Healing Ward- No

Then again, I don't know any class speced Majicka that doesn't run one of those in PvP. in addition to any shield they have access to.

I'll also suggest that if you are having issues keeping mobs at ranged, you take a closer look at our (Sorcs) toolkit and adjust your spec accordingly.


* However since you asked, here's the results from Wasps in Craglorn.