Sorcerer Feedback for Eric Wrobel and the Combat Team

Xsorus

Digiman wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

XEVENEX wrote: »

Hard casting Crystal Fragments is not a viable option for PvP DPS for two reasons. It is extremely vulnerable to interrupt and reflect abilities. If this is intended to be our main sustained DPS skill then it needs to be noninterruptible or instant cast. This would be overpowered so please, unnerf Crushing Shock or give us something similar as a class skill.

On the PTS, Crystal Fragments is no longer procing on many of our abilities including Streak and Encase. We've been quite vocal about this and haven't heard any feedback on the issue. If this is a bug, please confirm that. If this is a ninja nerf, then ninja unnerf that stuff posthaste.

If you are changing the Expert Mage passive, then the damage boost needs to be exceedingly powerful and/or the cost reduction it provides needs to be maintained. Anything less will be seen correctly as a direct nerf to the entire skill line (Bolt, Surge, Fury, Form, Splash and their morphs).

Lastly, the "buff" to Surge enabling it to proc on damage shielded targets implies that damage shields will now take critical damage. This combined with the 15% damage shield reduction in Cyrodiil is too heavy handed. Either they need to benefit from armor and spell resistance, or have 100% crit damage mitigation. Another option would be to remove the reduction altogether. I think it is too early to be making these changes, and I don't believe damage shields will scale as well as DPS will with the Champion System.

Thanks for reading!

Ummm..You realize Bow users have been dealing with this for a very long time right? Also please don't say "You have sneak attack" because all know Sneak Attack got gutted, and then they made Radiant Mage Light even more of a counter to it.

Bow users with snipe also have a base of 35 yards. Crystal shards has 28, so try again.

And? Do you stand 35 yards from a Bow User the whole time with your thumb up your butt? Once you close range with a Bow User, guess what..That Bow user is pretty much going to be at that range of you, Mean while Sorc can teleport away and crystal shards you in the face all the same.

You complaining about being interrupted with Crystal Shards is downright hilarious, Considering all the times i've pointblank shot people in the face with Lethal Arrow.

TheLaw

If we had an instant spell attack I would be beyond happy. It could be morphed to either melee or ranged, each with different effects.

Aimelin

Xeniph wrote: »

The "But it can be reflected" is not a valid argument, as can all ranged projectiles. Also the skill has an instant cast proc morph making it that much more useful.

Also, you can reflect it back via the S/B line, something some skills can't do.

I'm testing now, and casting any spell, excluding itself and BS (BS is clearly bugged), gives me nearly the proc 100% of the time. Interesting to note, Hardened Ward seems to generate this proc at a rate more than any other spell.

This is only taking Sorc abilities into account, adding any staff abilities into the mix means you should have this buff up every single complete rotation, sometimes more.

The Sorc does not need a high damage single target DD ability to remain competitive. No other class has this potential.

eh, whats whip, ambush, jabs then ? single target DD, insta cast ...

prototypefb

Aimelin wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

The "But it can be reflected" is not a valid argument, as can all ranged projectiles. Also the skill has an instant cast proc morph making it that much more useful.

Also, you can reflect it back via the S/B line, something some skills can't do.

I'm testing now, and casting any spell, excluding itself and BS (BS is clearly bugged), gives me nearly the proc 100% of the time. Interesting to note, Hardened Ward seems to generate this proc at a rate more than any other spell.

This is only taking Sorc abilities into account, adding any staff abilities into the mix means you should have this buff up every single complete rotation, sometimes more.

The Sorc does not need a high damage single target DD ability to remain competitive. No other class has this potential.

eh, whats whip, ambush, jabs then ? single target DD, insta cast ...

since when ambush is instant?
also jabs is not rly in this category since it can't be weaved, it's instant ish but have a duration longer than crystal shards with cast time.
whip as powerfull as it is it's not long range.

Darkonflare15

prototypefb wrote: »

Aimelin wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

The "But it can be reflected" is not a valid argument, as can all ranged projectiles. Also the skill has an instant cast proc morph making it that much more useful.

Also, you can reflect it back via the S/B line, something some skills can't do.

I'm testing now, and casting any spell, excluding itself and BS (BS is clearly bugged), gives me nearly the proc 100% of the time. Interesting to note, Hardened Ward seems to generate this proc at a rate more than any other spell.

This is only taking Sorc abilities into account, adding any staff abilities into the mix means you should have this buff up every single complete rotation, sometimes more.

The Sorc does not need a high damage single target DD ability to remain competitive. No other class has this potential.

eh, whats whip, ambush, jabs then ? single target DD, insta cast ...

since when ambush is instant?
also jabs is not rly in this category since it can't be weaved, it's instant ish but have a duration longer than crystal shards with cast time.
whip as powerfull as it is it's not long range.

Yeah the problem with threads like this is that they complain about what they do not have and look in another class's skill lines or other skill lines in general to compare the two and prove a point but they really do not know what they talking about. Example, spamming ambush is not that effective since there is a delay in the move plus the base damage is not that powerful. Now the most effective way to use ambush is to use it and then use stronger moves behind it like soul harvest and wreaking blow.

Aimelin

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

prototypefb wrote: »

Aimelin wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

The "But it can be reflected" is not a valid argument, as can all ranged projectiles. Also the skill has an instant cast proc morph making it that much more useful.

Also, you can reflect it back via the S/B line, something some skills can't do.

I'm testing now, and casting any spell, excluding itself and BS (BS is clearly bugged), gives me nearly the proc 100% of the time. Interesting to note, Hardened Ward seems to generate this proc at a rate more than any other spell.

This is only taking Sorc abilities into account, adding any staff abilities into the mix means you should have this buff up every single complete rotation, sometimes more.

The Sorc does not need a high damage single target DD ability to remain competitive. No other class has this potential.

eh, whats whip, ambush, jabs then ? single target DD, insta cast ...

since when ambush is instant?
also jabs is not rly in this category since it can't be weaved, it's instant ish but have a duration longer than crystal shards with cast time.
whip as powerfull as it is it's not long range.

Yeah the problem with threads like this is that they complain about what they do not have and look in another class's skill lines or other skill lines in general to compare the two and prove a point but they really do not know what they talking about. Example, spamming ambush is not that effective since there is a delay in the move plus the base damage is not that powerful. Now the most effective way to use ambush is to use it and then use stronger moves behind it like soul harvest and wreaking blow.

fine ambush isn't intirely instant, still shorter than CF, and the dmg boost works for ambush too so you can kinda spam it & do more dmg every second cast

even if whip isn't a ranged skill, its basically hitting for w/e dmg the tooltip says twice + heals you for roughly 90% of the dmg you do on the second hit, and its not hard to get that second proc off alot

ofc i'll look at other classes to see what sorcs don't have ... everyones talking about Dks are ment to be tanks, templars healers, why's a tank & healer doing same or more dmg than a sorc then ? if not, don't bring the "holy trinity" of mmo's into this then, consider everyone a dps class then, and well ironically sorcs are still behind then

olsborg

Sry if this was mentioned before, didnt have the stamina to read through it all. But someone mentioned that shields/wards will be crittable? This will basicly mean that every light armor wearing "idiot" will be superduper squishy now, even with huge wards.

Guess its good timing that im leveling an alt now with medium armor.
Ah well. If thats the case, RIP Light Armor.

Dracane

olsborg wrote: »

Sry if this was mentioned before, didnt have the stamina to read through it all. But someone mentioned that shields/wards will be crittable? This will basicly mean that every light armor wearing "idiot" will be superduper squishy now, even with huge wards.

Guess its good timing that im leveling an alt now with medium armor.
Ah well. If thats the case, RIP Light Armor.

If that is true, we are going to be very dead. Melee's are going to anihilate us.
Eric said, Surge is going to work on damage shields>Surge only heals on crits>think...

ItsRejectz

ZOS might as well just scrap the sorcerer class, they obviously have no idea what they're doing with it

ToRelax

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Digiman wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

XEVENEX wrote: »

Hard casting Crystal Fragments is not a viable option for PvP DPS for two reasons. It is extremely vulnerable to interrupt and reflect abilities. If this is intended to be our main sustained DPS skill then it needs to be noninterruptible or instant cast. This would be overpowered so please, unnerf Crushing Shock or give us something similar as a class skill.

On the PTS, Crystal Fragments is no longer procing on many of our abilities including Streak and Encase. We've been quite vocal about this and haven't heard any feedback on the issue. If this is a bug, please confirm that. If this is a ninja nerf, then ninja unnerf that stuff posthaste.

If you are changing the Expert Mage passive, then the damage boost needs to be exceedingly powerful and/or the cost reduction it provides needs to be maintained. Anything less will be seen correctly as a direct nerf to the entire skill line (Bolt, Surge, Fury, Form, Splash and their morphs).

Lastly, the "buff" to Surge enabling it to proc on damage shielded targets implies that damage shields will now take critical damage. This combined with the 15% damage shield reduction in Cyrodiil is too heavy handed. Either they need to benefit from armor and spell resistance, or have 100% crit damage mitigation. Another option would be to remove the reduction altogether. I think it is too early to be making these changes, and I don't believe damage shields will scale as well as DPS will with the Champion System.

Thanks for reading!

Ummm..You realize Bow users have been dealing with this for a very long time right? Also please don't say "You have sneak attack" because all know Sneak Attack got gutted, and then they made Radiant Mage Light even more of a counter to it.

Bow users with snipe also have a base of 35 yards. Crystal shards has 28, so try again.

And? Do you stand 35 yards from a Bow User the whole time with your thumb up your butt? Once you close range with a Bow User, guess what..That Bow user is pretty much going to be at that range of you, Mean while Sorc can teleport away and crystal shards you in the face all the same.

You complaining about being interrupted with Crystal Shards is downright hilarious, Considering all the times i've pointblank shot people in the face with Lethal Arrow.

Any Bow user trying to snipe me openly without stealth is pretty much dead if I am not outnumbered at least 1:3.
If it's not a DK using his Scales that is.
Wich makes your statement pretty irrelevant.

Xeniph

Aimelin wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

The "But it can be reflected" is not a valid argument, as can all ranged projectiles. Also the skill has an instant cast proc morph making it that much more useful.

Also, you can reflect it back via the S/B line, something some skills can't do.

I'm testing now, and casting any spell, excluding itself and BS (BS is clearly bugged), gives me nearly the proc 100% of the time. Interesting to note, Hardened Ward seems to generate this proc at a rate more than any other spell.

This is only taking Sorc abilities into account, adding any staff abilities into the mix means you should have this buff up every single complete rotation, sometimes more.

The Sorc does not need a high damage single target DD ability to remain competitive. No other class has this potential.

eh, whats whip, ambush, jabs then ? single target DD, insta cast ...

Wait for it....

Those are MELEE.

Honestly, are you even trying to remotely claim that Sorcs are asking for a melee range instant on these forums?

I swear, if you don't want CS, my DK and NB would take that over any magicka DD ability he has. all day every day.

Aimelin

Xeniph wrote: »

Aimelin wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

The "But it can be reflected" is not a valid argument, as can all ranged projectiles. Also the skill has an instant cast proc morph making it that much more useful.

Also, you can reflect it back via the S/B line, something some skills can't do.

I'm testing now, and casting any spell, excluding itself and BS (BS is clearly bugged), gives me nearly the proc 100% of the time. Interesting to note, Hardened Ward seems to generate this proc at a rate more than any other spell.

This is only taking Sorc abilities into account, adding any staff abilities into the mix means you should have this buff up every single complete rotation, sometimes more.

The Sorc does not need a high damage single target DD ability to remain competitive. No other class has this potential.

eh, whats whip, ambush, jabs then ? single target DD, insta cast ...

Wait for it....

Those are MELEE.

Honestly, are you even trying to remotely claim that Sorcs are asking for a melee range instant on these forums?

I swear, if you don't want CS, my DK and NB would take that over any magicka DD ability he has. all day every day.

melee or not they are still insta cast dd abilities, and with every dk running around with sword & shield its easier for them to stay on you than for a sorc to keep running away

ToRelax

Xeniph wrote: »

Aimelin wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

The "But it can be reflected" is not a valid argument, as can all ranged projectiles. Also the skill has an instant cast proc morph making it that much more useful.

Also, you can reflect it back via the S/B line, something some skills can't do.

I'm testing now, and casting any spell, excluding itself and BS (BS is clearly bugged), gives me nearly the proc 100% of the time. Interesting to note, Hardened Ward seems to generate this proc at a rate more than any other spell.

This is only taking Sorc abilities into account, adding any staff abilities into the mix means you should have this buff up every single complete rotation, sometimes more.

The Sorc does not need a high damage single target DD ability to remain competitive. No other class has this potential.

eh, whats whip, ambush, jabs then ? single target DD, insta cast ...

Wait for it....

Those are MELEE.

Honestly, are you even trying to remotely claim that Sorcs are asking for a melee range instant on these forums?

I swear, if you don't want CS, my DK and NB would take that over any magicka DD ability he has. all day every day.

Swallow Soul/Funnel Health.
And yes I know that it does potentional less damage than Crushing Shock/Force Pulse in 1.5 but that may change in 1.6.

Xeniph

Some of the folks in this thread may want to try another class. They don't seem to like the Sorc's Playstyle.

ToRelax

Xeniph wrote: »

Some of the folks in this thread may want to try another class. They don't seem to like the Sorc's Playstyle.

Pokémons?

kkampaseb17_ESO

Dracane wrote: »

kkampaseb17_ESO wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Gandogal wrote: »

is this the case? i ever wondered: does the lightning field stop when the synergy is used?

I think it does.

It doesn't.

Are you 100% ? This is good. When I was seeing it in 1.5, the effect stopped instantly.

If you are commenting for PTS usage sorry I misunderstood and I don't know. I am talking about live. Sorry for the mix up.

Digiman

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

And? Do you stand 35 yards from a Bow User the whole time with your thumb up your butt? Once you close range with a Bow User, guess what..That Bow user is pretty much going to be at that range of you, Mean while Sorc can teleport away and crystal shards you in the face all the same.

You complaining about being interrupted with Crystal Shards is downright hilarious, Considering all the times i've pointblank shot people in the face with Lethal Arrow.

I am a ranged caster, I am meant to be as far back as possible, that's hard to do when a heavy hitting ability that hits so hard and is actually so OP in PVE that its requirement for sustained DPS for trail is 7 yards farther then my ranged class abilities that I actually have to run TOWARDS the target to interrupt.

Get off your high horse, if the effort of snipe was to become a basis for long range abilities then sorcerers and shock should be able 35 yards long as well.

There is a reason why Sorcerer aren't out there in competitive trails and thats because their sustained DPS is utter garbage when all you have to do is spam one ability over and over an not have to worry about bosses attack.

There is reason why this ability in PVP is spit in the face in the eyes of the only other ranged DPS class in the game.

Exstazik

Endless Fury should be stamina cost and scale from weapon power/stamina

Asgari

prototypefb wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

Eric made a curious statement about balancing DPS, making sure that Time to Kill was even across classes.

OK. But how about TTL? If LA Magicka Casters and MA Stamina Users have balanced TTK, how do you compensate for the fact that medium armor offers better protection? Not to mention the utility in PvP (sneak!).

Glassier specs should have more cannon.

so build max magicka, glass cannon your dmg will be higher but you will be 1-2 shot, that is your choice, go for it!

On pts even with 25k health 23k magicka and 14k stam which is fairly balanced you get 1-2 shot. Take away any more magicka and you hit so weak it still doesn't matter if you add 4k more health.

Aimelin

Exstazik wrote: »

Endless Fury should be stamina cost and scale from weapon power/stamina

Nope, worst idea ever

rfennell_ESO

I'll leave some feedback in line with the flavor of the thread title for devs if they actually bother reading it.

The single biggest issue that sorcs have is that class abilities are lackluster or useless.

Crystal shards: soso ability that needs to either do more damage comparative to destru staff abiltiies or even comparable damage. It's potentially good in pvp and is mostly effective.

Encase: magicka cost needs to be drastically reduced and range increased. If this was a ranged root it would be something work taking.

Rune prison: Not sure if the changes will make anyone take it.

Dark exchange: it's a terrible ability, and needs to be replaced as it's redundant to a better mage's guild ability. Being this is a dark magic skill, why not replace it with a dot?

Daedric mines: Need to do a lot more damage.

Negate magic: didn't really need to nerfed at all. revert.
---
Unstable familiar: combine it with summon winged twilight as a summon daedra ability. Eliminate the toggle or at least make it so it doesn't need to be on all bars.

Daedric curse: You increased it's damage some, perhaps making it tick for more or more damage until explosion is a better option. The pet version is soso idea... just make the pets do that increased damage by default and figure out a different morph.

Summon Winged Twilight: combine with unstable familiar as a morph. Replace with some sort of AE. How about that shadow zone ability that summons skeletons out of it for ae dmg? Or make it summon imps or something.

Bound armor: needs more armor... a lot more armor. Eliminate it from being a multiple bar toggle.

Conjured ward: mostly a good ability.

Summon Storm Atronarch: fine as is.

---

Mages Fury: increase the execute range, increase the base damage.

Lightning form: Changes made in 1.6 seem good.

Lightning splash: Proposed changes seem good.

Surge: Just revert it and make it give weapon power or spell power based on magicka or stamina levels.

Bolt escape: increase steak damage.

Overload: decide what you are doing with it already. It's a decent hitting ability that doesn't allow you to weave currently (so useless in pve) Why does it turn you over to another bar? Why does the other bar drain all your magicka in 2 casts while on it? Why can't you block while using it? Increase the fan width and range of heavy attacks... it's so bad it doesn't hit things standing in front of you half the time.

---

Lastly decide what the point of multiple bar toggle abilities is. Just make all of them turn on abilities or give us a toggle ability slot right next to ultimate button.

Costismaros

XEVENEX wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

XEVENEX wrote: »

Hard casting Crystal Fragments is not a viable option for PvP DPS for two reasons. It is extremely vulnerable to interrupt and reflect abilities. If this is intended to be our main sustained DPS skill then it needs to be noninterruptible or instant cast. This would be overpowered so please, unnerf Crushing Shock or give us something similar as a class skill.

On the PTS, Crystal Fragments is no longer procing on many of our abilities including Streak and Encase. We've been quite vocal about this and haven't heard any feedback on the issue. If this is a bug, please confirm that. If this is a ninja nerf, then ninja unnerf that stuff posthaste.

If you are changing the Expert Mage passive, then the damage boost needs to be exceedingly powerful and/or the cost reduction it provides needs to be maintained. Anything less will be seen correctly as a direct nerf to the entire skill line (Bolt, Surge, Fury, Form, Splash and their morphs).

Lastly, the "buff" to Surge enabling it to proc on damage shielded targets implies that damage shields will now take critical damage. This combined with the 15% damage shield reduction in Cyrodiil is too heavy handed. Either they need to benefit from armor and spell resistance, or have 100% crit damage mitigation. Another option would be to remove the reduction altogether. I think it is too early to be making these changes, and I don't believe damage shields will scale as well as DPS will with the Champion System.

Thanks for reading!

Ummm..You realize Bow users have been dealing with this for a very long time right? Also please don't say "You have sneak attack" because all know Sneak Attack got gutted, and then they made Radiant Mage Light even more of a counter to it.

Bow is a weapon skill line and I'm talking about a class ability. I don't play Night Blade so I don't know if Night Blades have an acceptable instant cast sustained DPS skill, I only know that Sorcerers do not. Regardless, if you are unhappy with your skills then by all means, provide feedback in an appropriate thread.

There is none class skill that sustain damage. Every class in this game sustain with weapon abilities. I dont understand why Sorc are different than others ?

Aimelin

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

I'll leave some feedback in line with the flavor of the thread title for devs if they actually bother reading it.

The single biggest issue that sorcs have is that class abilities are lackluster or useless.

Crystal shards: soso ability that needs to either do more damage comparative to destru staff abiltiies or even comparable damage. It's potentially good in pvp and is mostly effective.

Encase: magicka cost needs to be drastically reduced and range increased. If this was a ranged root it would be something work taking.

Rune prison: Not sure if the changes will make anyone take it.

Dark exchange: it's a terrible ability, and needs to be replaced as it's redundant to a better mage's guild ability. Being this is a dark magic skill, why not replace it with a dot?

Daedric mines: Need to do a lot more damage.

Negate magic: didn't really need to nerfed at all. revert.
---
Unstable familiar: combine it with summon winged twilight as a summon daedra ability. Eliminate the toggle or at least make it so it doesn't need to be on all bars.

Daedric curse: You increased it's damage some, perhaps making it tick for more or more damage until explosion is a better option. The pet version is soso idea... just make the pets do that increased damage by default and figure out a different morph.

Summon Winged Twilight: combine with unstable familiar as a morph. Replace with some sort of AE. How about that shadow zone ability that summons skeletons out of it for ae dmg? Or make it summon imps or something.

Bound armor: needs more armor... a lot more armor. Eliminate it from being a multiple bar toggle.

Conjured ward: mostly a good ability.

Summon Storm Atronarch: fine as is.

---

Mages Fury: increase the execute range, increase the base damage.

Lightning form: Changes made in 1.6 seem good.

Lightning splash: Proposed changes seem good.

Surge: Just revert it and make it give weapon power or spell power based on magicka or stamina levels.

Bolt escape: increase steak damage.

Overload: decide what you are doing with it already. It's a decent hitting ability that doesn't allow you to weave currently (so useless in pve) Why does it turn you over to another bar? Why does the other bar drain all your magicka in 2 casts while on it? Why can't you block while using it? Increase the fan width and range of heavy attacks... it's so bad it doesn't hit things standing in front of you half the time.

---

Lastly decide what the point of multiple bar toggle abilities is. Just make all of them turn on abilities or give us a toggle ability slot right next to ultimate button.

Lightning splash: Proposed changes seem good. wut? you're kidding right ? right ??

Costismaros wrote: »

XEVENEX wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

XEVENEX wrote: »

Hard casting Crystal Fragments is not a viable option for PvP DPS for two reasons. It is extremely vulnerable to interrupt and reflect abilities. If this is intended to be our main sustained DPS skill then it needs to be noninterruptible or instant cast. This would be overpowered so please, unnerf Crushing Shock or give us something similar as a class skill.

On the PTS, Crystal Fragments is no longer procing on many of our abilities including Streak and Encase. We've been quite vocal about this and haven't heard any feedback on the issue. If this is a bug, please confirm that. If this is a ninja nerf, then ninja unnerf that stuff posthaste.

If you are changing the Expert Mage passive, then the damage boost needs to be exceedingly powerful and/or the cost reduction it provides needs to be maintained. Anything less will be seen correctly as a direct nerf to the entire skill line (Bolt, Surge, Fury, Form, Splash and their morphs).

Lastly, the "buff" to Surge enabling it to proc on damage shielded targets implies that damage shields will now take critical damage. This combined with the 15% damage shield reduction in Cyrodiil is too heavy handed. Either they need to benefit from armor and spell resistance, or have 100% crit damage mitigation. Another option would be to remove the reduction altogether. I think it is too early to be making these changes, and I don't believe damage shields will scale as well as DPS will with the Champion System.

Thanks for reading!

Ummm..You realize Bow users have been dealing with this for a very long time right? Also please don't say "You have sneak attack" because all know Sneak Attack got gutted, and then they made Radiant Mage Light even more of a counter to it.

Bow is a weapon skill line and I'm talking about a class ability. I don't play Night Blade so I don't know if Night Blades have an acceptable instant cast sustained DPS skill, I only know that Sorcerers do not. Regardless, if you are unhappy with your skills then by all means, provide feedback in an appropriate thread.

There is none class skill that sustain damage. Every class in this game sustain with weapon abilities. I dont understand why Sorc are different than others ?

Okay, lets say for a second thats true (which it isnt) sorcs still screwed then since they nerfed crushing shock dmg, wall of elements is a complete joke, destructive touch, meh ? impulse, meh? also situational / depends on build

Darkonflare15

Costismaros wrote: »

XEVENEX wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

XEVENEX wrote: »

Hard casting Crystal Fragments is not a viable option for PvP DPS for two reasons. It is extremely vulnerable to interrupt and reflect abilities. If this is intended to be our main sustained DPS skill then it needs to be noninterruptible or instant cast. This would be overpowered so please, unnerf Crushing Shock or give us something similar as a class skill.

On the PTS, Crystal Fragments is no longer procing on many of our abilities including Streak and Encase. We've been quite vocal about this and haven't heard any feedback on the issue. If this is a bug, please confirm that. If this is a ninja nerf, then ninja unnerf that stuff posthaste.

If you are changing the Expert Mage passive, then the damage boost needs to be exceedingly powerful and/or the cost reduction it provides needs to be maintained. Anything less will be seen correctly as a direct nerf to the entire skill line (Bolt, Surge, Fury, Form, Splash and their morphs).

Lastly, the "buff" to Surge enabling it to proc on damage shielded targets implies that damage shields will now take critical damage. This combined with the 15% damage shield reduction in Cyrodiil is too heavy handed. Either they need to benefit from armor and spell resistance, or have 100% crit damage mitigation. Another option would be to remove the reduction altogether. I think it is too early to be making these changes, and I don't believe damage shields will scale as well as DPS will with the Champion System.

Thanks for reading!

Ummm..You realize Bow users have been dealing with this for a very long time right? Also please don't say "You have sneak attack" because all know Sneak Attack got gutted, and then they made Radiant Mage Light even more of a counter to it.

Bow is a weapon skill line and I'm talking about a class ability. I don't play Night Blade so I don't know if Night Blades have an acceptable instant cast sustained DPS skill, I only know that Sorcerers do not. Regardless, if you are unhappy with your skills then by all means, provide feedback in an appropriate thread.

There is none class skill that sustain damage. Every class in this game sustain with weapon abilities. I dont understand why Sorc are different than others ?

I agree.
I guess people seem to forget that you have multiple skill lines in this game. The whole point is to use skills from every thing you have to make a viable build. Sustainable dps is a heavy attack or a flurry of light attacks. You use these basic attacks alongside spells and abilities. Its the one reason why ZOS is trying to make light attacks and heavy attacks viable.So that people would use them more. Light attacks and heavy attacks provide damage while not using resource. Light and heavy attacks now give ultimate gain and complete heavy attacks give you resource back depending what weapon you have.

I was on the PTS using mages fury along with destructive reach (Lighting version) and I was doing great dps and then I spec my character even further with champion points and started getting high dps. I have notice that you only need about two attacking skills anyway with the sorcerer since they have plenty of utility skills. I had power surge for boost in spell damage and heals. Hardened ward for defense and inner light for the spell critical and boost to max magical. Switch out destructive reach for force shock still doing good.

Switch mages fury and force shock and use velocius curse and crystal fragments. Getting heals from crystal fragments and power surge and getting even more critical damage thanks to the passive that sorcerer get under the dark magic line just by using crystal fragments. Now sorcerers are getting even more powerful with new boosts to spell power. I even made a template that has most of champion points put into the right areas and I was getting god mode with sorcerers. I actually felt like a spell slinger in multiple ways. Aoe and single target damage.
Tbh I do not see why sorcerers still think there class has nothing even though with all of these changes they are getting.

Aimelin

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

Costismaros wrote: »

XEVENEX wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

XEVENEX wrote: »

Hard casting Crystal Fragments is not a viable option for PvP DPS for two reasons. It is extremely vulnerable to interrupt and reflect abilities. If this is intended to be our main sustained DPS skill then it needs to be noninterruptible or instant cast. This would be overpowered so please, unnerf Crushing Shock or give us something similar as a class skill.

On the PTS, Crystal Fragments is no longer procing on many of our abilities including Streak and Encase. We've been quite vocal about this and haven't heard any feedback on the issue. If this is a bug, please confirm that. If this is a ninja nerf, then ninja unnerf that stuff posthaste.

If you are changing the Expert Mage passive, then the damage boost needs to be exceedingly powerful and/or the cost reduction it provides needs to be maintained. Anything less will be seen correctly as a direct nerf to the entire skill line (Bolt, Surge, Fury, Form, Splash and their morphs).

Lastly, the "buff" to Surge enabling it to proc on damage shielded targets implies that damage shields will now take critical damage. This combined with the 15% damage shield reduction in Cyrodiil is too heavy handed. Either they need to benefit from armor and spell resistance, or have 100% crit damage mitigation. Another option would be to remove the reduction altogether. I think it is too early to be making these changes, and I don't believe damage shields will scale as well as DPS will with the Champion System.

Thanks for reading!

Ummm..You realize Bow users have been dealing with this for a very long time right? Also please don't say "You have sneak attack" because all know Sneak Attack got gutted, and then they made Radiant Mage Light even more of a counter to it.

Bow is a weapon skill line and I'm talking about a class ability. I don't play Night Blade so I don't know if Night Blades have an acceptable instant cast sustained DPS skill, I only know that Sorcerers do not. Regardless, if you are unhappy with your skills then by all means, provide feedback in an appropriate thread.

There is none class skill that sustain damage. Every class in this game sustain with weapon abilities. I dont understand why Sorc are different than others ?

I agree.
I guess people seem to forget that you have multiple skill lines in this game. The whole point is to use skills from every thing you have to make a viable build. Sustainable dps is a heavy attack or a flurry of light attacks. You use these basic attacks alongside spells and abilities. Its the one reason why ZOS is trying to make light attacks and heavy attacks viable.So that people would use them more. Light attacks and heavy attacks provide damage while not using resource. Light and heavy attacks now give ultimate gain and complete heavy attacks give you resource back depending what weapon you have.

I was on the PTS using mages fury along with destructive reach (Lighting version) and I was doing great dps and then I spec my character even further with champion points and started getting high dps. I have notice that you only need about two attacking skills anyway with the sorcerer since they have plenty of utility skills. I had power surge for boost in spell damage and heals. Hardened ward for defense and inner light for the spell critical and boost to max magical. Switch out destructive reach for force shock still doing good.

Switch mages fury and force shock and use velocius curse and crystal fragments. Getting heals from crystal fragments and power surge and getting even more critical damage thanks to the passive that sorcerer get under the dark magic line just by using crystal fragments. Now sorcerers are getting even more powerful with new boosts to spell power. I even made a template that has most of champion points put into the right areas and I was getting god mode with sorcerers. I actually felt like a spell slinger in multiple ways. Aoe and single target damage.
Tbh I do not see why sorcerers still think there class has nothing even though with all of these changes they are getting.

You were using .... mages fury .... for dps ......... wut ? do you .... i have no words for this honestly ....

The dmg on the tooltips of SOME sorc abilities may be high, that doesnt mean our sustained dps is high, compared to other classes, its way lower.

you're talking about aoe & single target dmg ... lets see some numbers mate, show me those awesome numbers for both aoe and single target

what were you testing on ... mudcrabs?

Derra

My bet is on lvl37 zombies in bankorai while doing the main story there.

Darkonflare15

Aimelin wrote: »

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

Costismaros wrote: »

XEVENEX wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

XEVENEX wrote: »

Hard casting Crystal Fragments is not a viable option for PvP DPS for two reasons. It is extremely vulnerable to interrupt and reflect abilities. If this is intended to be our main sustained DPS skill then it needs to be noninterruptible or instant cast. This would be overpowered so please, unnerf Crushing Shock or give us something similar as a class skill.

On the PTS, Crystal Fragments is no longer procing on many of our abilities including Streak and Encase. We've been quite vocal about this and haven't heard any feedback on the issue. If this is a bug, please confirm that. If this is a ninja nerf, then ninja unnerf that stuff posthaste.

If you are changing the Expert Mage passive, then the damage boost needs to be exceedingly powerful and/or the cost reduction it provides needs to be maintained. Anything less will be seen correctly as a direct nerf to the entire skill line (Bolt, Surge, Fury, Form, Splash and their morphs).

Lastly, the "buff" to Surge enabling it to proc on damage shielded targets implies that damage shields will now take critical damage. This combined with the 15% damage shield reduction in Cyrodiil is too heavy handed. Either they need to benefit from armor and spell resistance, or have 100% crit damage mitigation. Another option would be to remove the reduction altogether. I think it is too early to be making these changes, and I don't believe damage shields will scale as well as DPS will with the Champion System.

Thanks for reading!

Ummm..You realize Bow users have been dealing with this for a very long time right? Also please don't say "You have sneak attack" because all know Sneak Attack got gutted, and then they made Radiant Mage Light even more of a counter to it.

Bow is a weapon skill line and I'm talking about a class ability. I don't play Night Blade so I don't know if Night Blades have an acceptable instant cast sustained DPS skill, I only know that Sorcerers do not. Regardless, if you are unhappy with your skills then by all means, provide feedback in an appropriate thread.

There is none class skill that sustain damage. Every class in this game sustain with weapon abilities. I dont understand why Sorc are different than others ?

I agree.
I guess people seem to forget that you have multiple skill lines in this game. The whole point is to use skills from every thing you have to make a viable build. Sustainable dps is a heavy attack or a flurry of light attacks. You use these basic attacks alongside spells and abilities. Its the one reason why ZOS is trying to make light attacks and heavy attacks viable.So that people would use them more. Light attacks and heavy attacks provide damage while not using resource. Light and heavy attacks now give ultimate gain and complete heavy attacks give you resource back depending what weapon you have.

I was on the PTS using mages fury along with destructive reach (Lighting version) and I was doing great dps and then I spec my character even further with champion points and started getting high dps. I have notice that you only need about two attacking skills anyway with the sorcerer since they have plenty of utility skills. I had power surge for boost in spell damage and heals. Hardened ward for defense and inner light for the spell critical and boost to max magical. Switch out destructive reach for force shock still doing good.

Switch mages fury and force shock and use velocius curse and crystal fragments. Getting heals from crystal fragments and power surge and getting even more critical damage thanks to the passive that sorcerer get under the dark magic line just by using crystal fragments. Now sorcerers are getting even more powerful with new boosts to spell power. I even made a template that has most of champion points put into the right areas and I was getting god mode with sorcerers. I actually felt like a spell slinger in multiple ways. Aoe and single target damage.
Tbh I do not see why sorcerers still think there class has nothing even though with all of these changes they are getting.

You were using .... mages fury .... for dps ......... wut ? do you .... i have no words for this honestly ....

The dmg on the tooltips of SOME sorc abilities may be high, that doesnt mean our sustained dps is high, compared to other classes, its way lower.

you're talking about aoe & single target dmg ... lets see some numbers mate, show me those awesome numbers for both aoe and single target

what were you testing on ... mudcrabs?

Yes you can use mages fury on adds that surround bosses since when they explode they do explosive burst damage on bosses. You can also use it on normal mobs which do damage on them. Why I can use heavy and light attacks to do damage on why weaving in destructive reach or force shock.You can get high dps with having to rely on spamming moves. So yes, if speck right you heavy attacks and light attacks can add on to your dps.

Dracane

Costismaros wrote: »

There is none class skill that sustain damage. Every class in this game sustain with weapon abilities. I dont understand why Sorc are different than others ?

Interesting, but ridicolous statement. How about lava whip, biting jabs, all the hard hiting Nightblade abilities ? Only to name one of each class

Each class besides Sorcerer has a hard hiting instant ability, even more than only one. No Templar, no DK and no NB must rely on weapon abilities to be extremely strong. Sorcerer is the only class, that is forced to use weapon ablities, because it has no good class abilities to deal fast damage.

Other classes can use them as well, but don't rely on weapon abilities. The oposite is the case: They are better of without weapons (from what I can see at least)

Aimelin

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

Aimelin wrote: »

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

Costismaros wrote: »

XEVENEX wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

XEVENEX wrote: »

Hard casting Crystal Fragments is not a viable option for PvP DPS for two reasons. It is extremely vulnerable to interrupt and reflect abilities. If this is intended to be our main sustained DPS skill then it needs to be noninterruptible or instant cast. This would be overpowered so please, unnerf Crushing Shock or give us something similar as a class skill.

On the PTS, Crystal Fragments is no longer procing on many of our abilities including Streak and Encase. We've been quite vocal about this and haven't heard any feedback on the issue. If this is a bug, please confirm that. If this is a ninja nerf, then ninja unnerf that stuff posthaste.

If you are changing the Expert Mage passive, then the damage boost needs to be exceedingly powerful and/or the cost reduction it provides needs to be maintained. Anything less will be seen correctly as a direct nerf to the entire skill line (Bolt, Surge, Fury, Form, Splash and their morphs).

Lastly, the "buff" to Surge enabling it to proc on damage shielded targets implies that damage shields will now take critical damage. This combined with the 15% damage shield reduction in Cyrodiil is too heavy handed. Either they need to benefit from armor and spell resistance, or have 100% crit damage mitigation. Another option would be to remove the reduction altogether. I think it is too early to be making these changes, and I don't believe damage shields will scale as well as DPS will with the Champion System.

Thanks for reading!

Ummm..You realize Bow users have been dealing with this for a very long time right? Also please don't say "You have sneak attack" because all know Sneak Attack got gutted, and then they made Radiant Mage Light even more of a counter to it.

Bow is a weapon skill line and I'm talking about a class ability. I don't play Night Blade so I don't know if Night Blades have an acceptable instant cast sustained DPS skill, I only know that Sorcerers do not. Regardless, if you are unhappy with your skills then by all means, provide feedback in an appropriate thread.

There is none class skill that sustain damage. Every class in this game sustain with weapon abilities. I dont understand why Sorc are different than others ?

I agree.
I guess people seem to forget that you have multiple skill lines in this game. The whole point is to use skills from every thing you have to make a viable build. Sustainable dps is a heavy attack or a flurry of light attacks. You use these basic attacks alongside spells and abilities. Its the one reason why ZOS is trying to make light attacks and heavy attacks viable.So that people would use them more. Light attacks and heavy attacks provide damage while not using resource. Light and heavy attacks now give ultimate gain and complete heavy attacks give you resource back depending what weapon you have.

I was on the PTS using mages fury along with destructive reach (Lighting version) and I was doing great dps and then I spec my character even further with champion points and started getting high dps. I have notice that you only need about two attacking skills anyway with the sorcerer since they have plenty of utility skills. I had power surge for boost in spell damage and heals. Hardened ward for defense and inner light for the spell critical and boost to max magical. Switch out destructive reach for force shock still doing good.

Switch mages fury and force shock and use velocius curse and crystal fragments. Getting heals from crystal fragments and power surge and getting even more critical damage thanks to the passive that sorcerer get under the dark magic line just by using crystal fragments. Now sorcerers are getting even more powerful with new boosts to spell power. I even made a template that has most of champion points put into the right areas and I was getting god mode with sorcerers. I actually felt like a spell slinger in multiple ways. Aoe and single target damage.
Tbh I do not see why sorcerers still think there class has nothing even though with all of these changes they are getting.

You were using .... mages fury .... for dps ......... wut ? do you .... i have no words for this honestly ....

The dmg on the tooltips of SOME sorc abilities may be high, that doesnt mean our sustained dps is high, compared to other classes, its way lower.

you're talking about aoe & single target dmg ... lets see some numbers mate, show me those awesome numbers for both aoe and single target

what were you testing on ... mudcrabs?

Yes you can use mages fury on adds that surround bosses since when they explode they do explosive burst damage on bosses. You can also use it on normal mobs which do damage on them. Why I can use heavy and light attacks to do damage on why weaving in destructive reach or force shock.You can get high dps with having to rely on spamming moves. So yes, if speck right you heavy attacks and light attacks can add on to your dps.

wut .... the aoe explosion dmg is a joke, not even mentioning the radius of it, but if you think that increases our overall dps then we're in even bigger trouble

or troll ? idk .....

Gandogal

no troll. just no idea of competative endgame content.