Sorcerer Feedback for Eric Wrobel and the Combat Team

Snit

Aletheion wrote: »

A sorc should hit harder (regardless of skill) because they die faster. Because we spend more time running, kiting and shielding, when the hit comes, it should hit hard.

-Aletheion

Eric Wrobel said at the last livestream that the goal is to make DPS output even across classes. Perhaps they will achieve that in the next patch.

He did not say anything about mitigation or survivability. I wonder whether the combat team believes there should be a relationship between the two. Most of us are assuming that TTK and TTL (time to kill or live) should be at least vaguely (and inversely) related. That may not be one of the guiding principles here, though.

When this patch hits live, I suspect we'll see relatively even DPS across the four classes. But I also believe that DK's and Templars will be a lot more survivable than the lesser two.

Dracane

Snit wrote: »

Aletheion wrote: »

A sorc should hit harder (regardless of skill) because they die faster. Because we spend more time running, kiting and shielding, when the hit comes, it should hit hard.

-Aletheion

Eric Wrobel said at the last livestream that the goal is to make DPS output even across classes. Perhaps they will achieve that in the next patch.

He did not say anything about mitigation or survivability. I wonder whether the combat team believes there should be a relationship between the two. Most of us are assuming that TTK and TTL (time to kill or live) should be at least vaguely (and inversely) related. That may not be one of the guiding principles here, though.

When this patch hits live, I suspect we'll see relatively even DPS across the four classes. But I also believe that DK's and Templars will be a lot more survivable than the lesser two.

I doubt, anyone is going to beat DKs and NBs. Templar might do it, when the target is below 50% health. But I currently can't see anyone beating the top DPS classes. We'll see.

Nightreaver

Snit wrote: »

When this patch hits live, I suspect we'll see relatively even DPS across the four classes. But I also believe that DK's and Templars will be a lot more survivable than the lesser two.

If the true goal is DPS balance then I would expect all classes to be equal..... when wearing the same armor with the same distribution of attribute points.

I would expect anyone in a Stamina build to do even greater damage wearing Medium armor.

I would expect anyone in a Magicka build to do even greater damage wearing Light armor.

I would expect Medium armor DPS to match Light armor DPS.

I would expect Melee DPS to be compensated for the additional difficulty it faces to the point where it matches Ranged in overall DPS.

I would expect that if the intention is to balance DPS between the classes then there would be a balance in Class survival skills between the classes. Listening to the other classes you would think Sorcerer has the best survival with Surge and Ward. So will have to see how that plays out. And no, I don't think Surge in its current form is worth a slot on my ability bar.

Hopeful, just not real optimistic.

AshTal

Having played sorc on the PST we still seem horrifically weak compared to other classes. The pets are still mostly worthless and get one hit killed. We go down very quickly and kick out a lot less damage than our counter parts. We are expected to use pets but they are stupid and run forward and get killed out side the battle lines. We have no continuous damage and against a dragon knight most crystal shards come back and hit us not them.
Also I use a reso staff which seems against the build they have planned for a sorc which is every sorc must use a destruction staff to add to the dps rotation.

Xsorus

ToRelax wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Jahosefat wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

Some of the folks in this thread may want to try another class. They don't seem to like the Sorc's Playstyle.

Some of us used to like it, then 1.6 happened.

Right now all I see is whining that a low cast ranged nuke is some how hard to pull off...

Says the Dragon knight...

Yes, says the Dragon Knight who's been a bow using DK for a better part of the games life... You know..that weapon with a low cast ranged "nuke" that doesn't have the aid of a teleport to create distance between my target and myself.

I think this is what is called "de-railing" a thread. But I will respond: if I had an infinite reflect that cost mag on live I wouldn't worry about casting anything either . Thank you for your input.

You mean that Reflect that can be countered by any sorc equipping a 1hd/shield?

Don't get me wrong, Reflective Scale is very overpowered, and it deserves a nerf..But pretending that casting CS is hard to get off is silly. Its no harder to get off then Lethal Arrow, and Lethal Arrow is a joke to get off.

A sorc can interrupt that Lethal Arrow by a DK if he is using Destro/Shield as his weapons, essentially giving up his healing.

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Jahosefat wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

Some of the folks in this thread may want to try another class. They don't seem to like the Sorc's Playstyle.

Some of us used to like it, then 1.6 happened.

Right now all I see is whining that a low cast ranged nuke is some how hard to pull off...

Says the Dragon knight...

Yes, says the Dragon Knight who's been a bow using DK for a better part of the games life... You know..that weapon with a low cast ranged "nuke" that doesn't have the aid of a teleport to create distance between my target and myself.

I think this is what is called "de-railing" a thread. But I will respond: if I had an infinite reflect that cost mag on live I wouldn't worry about casting anything either . Thank you for your input.

You mean that Reflect that can be countered by any sorc equipping a 1hd/shield?

Because every magicka sorc should have a stamina weapon and spend tons of stamina with his magicka to fire off his class defining attack, all while timing like a pro. Which wouldn't work if spamming snipe like you. As a sorc, we chose to double our costs to get less dps than other classes. Why? Because screw ezmode I guess.

(Read in Bud Light Real Men of Genius Voice)

Hats off to you again "Mr. OMG, Why Won't The Dirty Sorc Masses Just Build Entirely Around Me And Still Be Cool With Losing" guy. Your aloft attitude and two button spam while calling others skilless is what keeps the world turning.

I equip multiple Magicka based abilities with my Stamina DK to do exactly that, I don't whine and complain about it. Also Defensive Stance is incredibly cheap stamina wise, way less then the cost of Magicka of Reflective Scales for a Stamina Build. Also timing like a Pro? You realize Defensive Stance lasts like 30 seconds right? there is no timing required with it... I mean bloody hell, I slot Reflective Scales just to counter other DKs with it, I don't cry because i've had to put it on my bar.

Just that Defensive Stance is being countered by a light attack and costs quite a lot of stamina for a magicka sorc. If you don't time it correctly a destro sorc is literally gonna crush you unless you use BoL, wich makes both Sorcerers unabe to kill each other.

Countering Defensive Stance right before crystal shards hits with a light attack requires very good timing. It can be done, but it requires you to be on the ball. Against another Sorc you don't even need defensive stance...BoL is just that powerful.

Xsorus

Teargrants wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

But pretending that casting CS is hard to get off is silly. Its no harder to get off then Lethal Arrow, and Lethal Arrow is a joke to get off.

Are you lol-farming or what?

DK: scales -> snipe -> snipe -> scales -> hue. Only scales can reflect snipes, and yours will always counter reflect. Of course lethal arrow is a joke to get off like that, you don't have to think at about risk/reward.

Sorc: reflect -> shard -> reflect -> shard -> wait a sec...
More like: reflect -> shard -> enemy light staff atk -> shard still casting animation -> enemy crushy shock -> owie

How does sorc stop DK from sniping?

DK: scales -> snipe
Sorc: crushy sho... oh wait

DK: scales -> snipe
Sorc: crystal shar... oh wait

DK: scales -> snipe
Sorc: reflect -> pray you have shard proc rdy -> shard travel time... oh wait


Yeah, shards is really easy to get off if I don't mind having it reflected back into my face all the time. The above is why caster sorc will just blinky blink away in that situation, unless the DK is a baddie.

Rofl, wow I didn't think you were this bad but ok.

Whining bout the cast time on on crystal shards is not the same thing as whining about your spells being reflected...Your spell possibility being reflected by 1 of the 4 classes most of the time does not make your spell hard to get off, it makes that class harder for you to just instant gib. I will say right now when I fight a Sorc with Shield I don't pop Reflective Scales anymore simply because Its going to be reflected onto me. I'd rather save the mana.. reason I run scales 90% of the time in PvP now is other DK's and killing them... the other 10% is for the Sorcs dumb enough not to run Shield.

now with that said..did you really just ask how does a Sorc stop a DK from sniping? Are you bloody serious? you have a teleport that absorbs Projectiles..and you're asking how you stop a DK from sniping?

Xsorus

Jahosefat wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Jahosefat wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

Some of the folks in this thread may want to try another class. They don't seem to like the Sorc's Playstyle.

Some of us used to like it, then 1.6 happened.

Right now all I see is whining that a low cast ranged nuke is some how hard to pull off...

Says the Dragon knight...

Yes, says the Dragon Knight who's been a bow using DK for a better part of the games life... You know..that weapon with a low cast ranged "nuke" that doesn't have the aid of a teleport to create distance between my target and myself.

I think this is what is called "de-railing" a thread. But I will respond: if I had an infinite reflect that cost mag on live I wouldn't worry about casting anything either . Thank you for your input.

You mean that Reflect that can be countered by any sorc equipping a 1hd/shield?

Because every magicka sorc should have a stamina weapon and spend tons of stamina with his magicka to fire off his class defining attack, all while timing like a pro. Which wouldn't work if spamming snipe like you. As a sorc, we chose to double our costs to get less dps than other classes. Why? Because screw ezmode I guess.

(Read in Bud Light Real Men of Genius Voice)

Hats off to you again "Mr. OMG, Why Won't The Dirty Sorc Masses Just Build Entirely Around Me And Still Be Cool With Losing" guy. Your aloft attitude and two button spam while calling others skilless is what keeps the world turning.

I equip multiple Magicka based abilities with my Stamina DK to do exactly that, I don't whine and complain about it. Also Defensive Stance is incredibly cheap stamina wise, way less then the cost of Magicka of Reflective Scales for a Stamina Build. Also timing like a Pro? You realize Defensive Stance lasts like 30 seconds right? there is no timing required with it... I mean bloody hell, I slot Reflective Scales just to counter other DKs with it, I don't cry because i've had to put it on my bar.

Xeniph wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Jahosefat wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

Some of the folks in this thread may want to try another class. They don't seem to like the Sorc's Playstyle.

Some of us used to like it, then 1.6 happened.

Right now all I see is whining that a low cast ranged nuke is some how hard to pull off...

Says the Dragon knight...

Yes, says the Dragon Knight who's been a bow using DK for a better part of the games life... You know..that weapon with a low cast ranged "nuke" that doesn't have the aid of a teleport to create distance between my target and myself.

I think this is what is called "de-railing" a thread. But I will respond: if I had an infinite reflect that cost mag on live I wouldn't worry about casting anything either . Thank you for your input.

You mean that Reflect that can be countered by any sorc equipping a 1hd/shield?

Because every magicka sorc should have a stamina weapon and spend tons of stamina with his magicka to fire off his class defining attack, all while timing like a pro. Which wouldn't work if spamming snipe like you. As a sorc, we chose to double our costs to get less dps than other classes. Why? Because screw ezmode I guess.

(Read in Bud Light Real Men of Genius Voice)

Hats off to you again "Mr. OMG, Why Won't The Dirty Sorc Masses Just Build Entirely Around Me And Still Be Cool With Losing" guy. Your aloft attitude and two button spam while calling others skilless is what keeps the world turning.

I equip multiple Magicka based abilities with my Stamina DK to do exactly that, I don't whine and complain about it. Also Defensive Stance is incredibly cheap stamina wise, way less then the cost of Magicka of Reflective Scales for a Stamina Build. Also timing like a Pro? You realize Defensive Stance lasts like 30 seconds right? there is no timing required with it... I mean bloody hell, I slot Reflective Scales just to counter other DKs with it, I don't cry because i've had to put it on my bar.

You may not like how he is saying it. But he has a valid point. Hell I run S/B and resto on my sorc in pvp. It's just too easy and too good.

Try it, and never eat another one of your own CS's again.

What I'm hearing from this.. "Come on sorcs you can choose between healing yourself, being able to reflect frags, or casting crushing shock, but you can't do all three! If you ever want to beat a DK the most OP class with the most OP ability in live, an infinite projectile reflect that is spammable, you are going to have to give up either heals or crushing shock. It is such an easy decision! Gimp yourself against DKs or gimp yourself against every sniping NB in the game! Or you can just go with no heals and be useless outside of a 1v1 or 1v2. I don't get why all the sorcs are complaining, it has been so easy on my DK!" Again, thanks for your input guys it helps

Or you can use bolt escape and stand behind it.

Dracane

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

now with that said..did you really just ask how does a Sorc stop a DK from sniping? Are you bloody serious? you have a teleport that absorbs Projectiles..and you're asking how you stop a DK from sniping?

This shows again, how uninformed you are. Ball of Lightning would be more OP than reflective scales, if it would absorb projectiles.

BoL only absorbs MAGICAL projectiles. Like force shock, crystal shard and such things. But not physical projectiles like snipe or other bow attacks. So this is no valid argument.

Xsorus

Derra wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Jahosefat wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

Some of the folks in this thread may want to try another class. They don't seem to like the Sorc's Playstyle.

Some of us used to like it, then 1.6 happened.

Right now all I see is whining that a low cast ranged nuke is some how hard to pull off...

Says the Dragon knight...

Yes, says the Dragon Knight who's been a bow using DK for a better part of the games life... You know..that weapon with a low cast ranged "nuke" that doesn't have the aid of a teleport to create distance between my target and myself.

I think this is what is called "de-railing" a thread. But I will respond: if I had an infinite reflect that cost mag on live I wouldn't worry about casting anything either . Thank you for your input.

You mean that Reflect that can be countered by any sorc equipping a 1hd/shield?

Because every magicka sorc should have a stamina weapon and spend tons of stamina with his magicka to fire off his class defining attack, all while timing like a pro. Which wouldn't work if spamming snipe like you. As a sorc, we chose to double our costs to get less dps than other classes. Why? Because screw ezmode I guess.

(Read in Bud Light Real Men of Genius Voice)

Hats off to you again "Mr. OMG, Why Won't The Dirty Sorc Masses Just Build Entirely Around Me And Still Be Cool With Losing" guy. Your aloft attitude and two button spam while calling others skilless is what keeps the world turning.

I equip multiple Magicka based abilities with my Stamina DK to do exactly that, I don't whine and complain about it. Also Defensive Stance is incredibly cheap stamina wise, way less then the cost of Magicka of Reflective Scales for a Stamina Build. Also timing like a Pro? You realize Defensive Stance lasts like 30 seconds right? there is no timing required with it... I mean bloody hell, I slot Reflective Scales just to counter other DKs with it, I don't cry because i've had to put it on my bar.

Defensive stance is easily countered by any decent player with a staff light attack. There is no point in using it against a dk that has a resto staff equipped - all it will do is drain your stamina - unlike a dk that can double reflect for eternity in 1.5. You have no clue about sorc play and come telling ppl how they should become better as if nobody since the game went might have had the same "genius" ideas you come up with.
Also you don´t seem to realize that dk with their reflect are about the only reason to slot sword and board as a sorc? Oh and ofc the pest that bow users have become on live and will be in 1.6.

I´m keeping the comments about you being a bow wielding dk to myself at this point.

Oh let me pull a page out of the Sorc book here

"You mean I have to equip a staff to stop Sorcs from reflecting back my spells! Hogwash.. I should be able to play how I want!"

As for DK's being the only reason to run sword and board as a sorc....Guess what..Its the reason I run Scales on my DK... I suck it up and enjoy the 35% bonus i get against other DKs

You can also use it against Nightblades, but you'll just steal either their Heal or they'll being spamming crushing shock on ya. I'd say templars but with the way Darkflare works it don't matter

Xsorus

Dracane wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

now with that said..did you really just ask how does a Sorc stop a DK from sniping? Are you bloody serious? you have a teleport that absorbs Projectiles..and you're asking how you stop a DK from sniping?

This shows again, how uninformed you are. Ball of Lightning would be more OP than reflective scales, if it would absorb projectiles.

BoL only absorbs MAGICAL projectiles. Like force shock, crystal shard and such things. But not physical projectiles like snipe or other bow attacks. So this is no valid argument.

You sure about that? Because every time i've sniped a Sorc with Bolt Escape, it does not land.

Naivefanboi

wish they would decide what game they want us to play.

Teargrants

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

But pretending that casting CS is hard to get off is silly. Its no harder to get off then Lethal Arrow, and Lethal Arrow is a joke to get off.

Are you lol-farming or what?

DK: scales -> snipe -> snipe -> scales -> hue. Only scales can reflect snipes, and yours will always counter reflect. Of course lethal arrow is a joke to get off like that, you don't have to think at about risk/reward.

Sorc: reflect -> shard -> reflect -> shard -> wait a sec...
More like: reflect -> shard -> enemy light staff atk -> shard still casting animation -> enemy crushy shock -> owie

How does sorc stop DK from sniping?

DK: scales -> snipe
Sorc: crushy sho... oh wait

DK: scales -> snipe
Sorc: crystal shar... oh wait

DK: scales -> snipe
Sorc: reflect -> pray you have shard proc rdy -> shard travel time... oh wait


Yeah, shards is really easy to get off if I don't mind having it reflected back into my face all the time. The above is why caster sorc will just blinky blink away in that situation, unless the DK is a baddie.

Rofl, wow I didn't think you were this bad but ok.

Whining bout the cast time on on crystal shards is not the same thing as whining about your spells being reflected...Your spell possibility being reflected by 1 of the 4 classes most of the time does not make your spell hard to get off, it makes that class harder for you to just instant gib. I will say right now when I fight a Sorc with Shield I don't pop Reflective Scales anymore simply because Its going to be reflected onto me. I'd rather save the mana.. reason I run scales 90% of the time in PvP now is other DK's and killing them... the other 10% is for the Sorcs dumb enough not to run Shield.

Did you read the content of your own post that I was replying to? You specifically said "Its no harder to get off then Lethal Arrow", I was merely showing how shards is consistently countered in comparison to a DK where you claim "Lethal Arrow is a joke to get off".

And please, tell me how shards "instant gibs" ppl? I would love to know, last I checked they just CC break if it connects, then pop shield/heal and back to square one. You don't kill ppl w/ it until they run out of stam to CC break, then get sharded a 2nd time on the ground while curse goes off.

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

now with that said..did you really just ask how does a Sorc stop a DK from sniping? Are you bloody serious? you have a teleport that absorbs Projectiles..and you're asking how you stop a DK from sniping?

Nah bro let's be super duper cereal here. Did you just say that ball of light absorbs snipe??

Xsorus

Teargrants wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

But pretending that casting CS is hard to get off is silly. Its no harder to get off then Lethal Arrow, and Lethal Arrow is a joke to get off.

Are you lol-farming or what?

DK: scales -> snipe -> snipe -> scales -> hue. Only scales can reflect snipes, and yours will always counter reflect. Of course lethal arrow is a joke to get off like that, you don't have to think at about risk/reward.

Sorc: reflect -> shard -> reflect -> shard -> wait a sec...
More like: reflect -> shard -> enemy light staff atk -> shard still casting animation -> enemy crushy shock -> owie

How does sorc stop DK from sniping?

DK: scales -> snipe
Sorc: crushy sho... oh wait

DK: scales -> snipe
Sorc: crystal shar... oh wait

DK: scales -> snipe
Sorc: reflect -> pray you have shard proc rdy -> shard travel time... oh wait


Yeah, shards is really easy to get off if I don't mind having it reflected back into my face all the time. The above is why caster sorc will just blinky blink away in that situation, unless the DK is a baddie.

Rofl, wow I didn't think you were this bad but ok.

Whining bout the cast time on on crystal shards is not the same thing as whining about your spells being reflected...Your spell possibility being reflected by 1 of the 4 classes most of the time does not make your spell hard to get off, it makes that class harder for you to just instant gib. I will say right now when I fight a Sorc with Shield I don't pop Reflective Scales anymore simply because Its going to be reflected onto me. I'd rather save the mana.. reason I run scales 90% of the time in PvP now is other DK's and killing them... the other 10% is for the Sorcs dumb enough not to run Shield.

Did you read the content of your own post that I was replying to? You specifically said "Its no harder to get off then Lethal Arrow", I was merely showing how shards is consistently countered in comparison to a DK where you claim "Lethal Arrow is a joke to get off".

And please, tell me how shards "instant gibs" ppl? I would love to know, last I checked they just CC break if it connects, then pop shield/heal and back to square one. You don't kill ppl w/ it until they run out of stam to CC break, then get sharded a 2nd time on the ground while curse goes off.

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

now with that said..did you really just ask how does a Sorc stop a DK from sniping? Are you bloody serious? you have a teleport that absorbs Projectiles..and you're asking how you stop a DK from sniping?

Nah bro let's be super duper cereal here. Did you just say that ball of light absorbs snipe??

Crystal Shard is not hard to get off, It being reflected does not change that fact. For example, someone here in this thread wanted to make Crystal Shards instant cast because the cast time was to much (which is why i brought up Lethal Arrow). If Crystal Shards was instant cast it could still be reflected..would you then claim it was still hard to get off? No..you would not...

Also you can instant gib people with Sorc, it mostly requires timing of other things but we've all seen it on PTS.

As for Ball of Light, i'm going to go ahead and concede that..Simply because i could just be remembering them absorbing my LA with their absorb shield. Plus I usually deal with streak on live more often then not I could simply be remembering that wrong..so i'm going to say you guys are probably correct on that.

Dracane

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

You sure about that? Because every time i've sniped a Sorc with Bolt Escape, it does not land.

Yes, 100% sure. Also the description says it.

Jahosefat

Teargrants wrote: »

Nah bro let's be super duper cereal here. Did you just say that ball of light absorbs snipe??

He did say ball of light absorbs snipe..... oh if only it did my friend Again, so glad our DK friends can contribute so much to our sorc discussion.

Dracane

Jahosefat wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Nah bro let's be super duper cereal here. Did you just say that ball of light absorbs snipe??

He did say ball of light absorbs snipe..... oh if only it did my friend Again, so glad our DK friends can contribute so much to our sorc discussion.

Yea in their imagination, we are a strong class. We should give this imagination to the developers.

Vis

Snit wrote: »

Aletheion wrote: »

A sorc should hit harder (regardless of skill) because they die faster. Because we spend more time running, kiting and shielding, when the hit comes, it should hit hard.

-Aletheion

Eric Wrobel said at the last livestream that the goal is to make DPS output even across classes. Perhaps they will achieve that in the next patch.

He did not say anything about mitigation or survivability. I wonder whether the combat team believes there should be a relationship between the two. Most of us are assuming that TTK and TTL (time to kill or live) should be at least vaguely (and inversely) related. That may not be one of the guiding principles here, though.

When this patch hits live, I suspect we'll see relatively even DPS across the four classes. But I also believe that DK's and Templars will be a lot more survivable than the lesser two.

It will forever be hard to compare dps as long as our core skills are reflected and their's is not.

Xeniph

Vis wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

Aletheion wrote: »

A sorc should hit harder (regardless of skill) because they die faster. Because we spend more time running, kiting and shielding, when the hit comes, it should hit hard.

-Aletheion

Eric Wrobel said at the last livestream that the goal is to make DPS output even across classes. Perhaps they will achieve that in the next patch.

He did not say anything about mitigation or survivability. I wonder whether the combat team believes there should be a relationship between the two. Most of us are assuming that TTK and TTL (time to kill or live) should be at least vaguely (and inversely) related. That may not be one of the guiding principles here, though.

When this patch hits live, I suspect we'll see relatively even DPS across the four classes. But I also believe that DK's and Templars will be a lot more survivable than the lesser two.

It will forever be hard to compare dps as long as our core skills are reflected and their's is not.

He was speaking from a PVE perspective. As it is quite impossible to measure dps in pvp, and I have yet to see mobs do Flapity Flap.

XEVENEX

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

As for Ball of Light, i'm going to go ahead and concede that..Simply because i could just be remembering them absorbing my LA with their absorb shield. Plus I usually deal with streak on live more often then not I could simply be remembering that wrong..so i'm going to say you guys are probably correct on that.

Vis

Xeniph wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

Aletheion wrote: »

A sorc should hit harder (regardless of skill) because they die faster. Because we spend more time running, kiting and shielding, when the hit comes, it should hit hard.

-Aletheion

Eric Wrobel said at the last livestream that the goal is to make DPS output even across classes. Perhaps they will achieve that in the next patch.

He did not say anything about mitigation or survivability. I wonder whether the combat team believes there should be a relationship between the two. Most of us are assuming that TTK and TTL (time to kill or live) should be at least vaguely (and inversely) related. That may not be one of the guiding principles here, though.

When this patch hits live, I suspect we'll see relatively even DPS across the four classes. But I also believe that DK's and Templars will be a lot more survivable than the lesser two.

It will forever be hard to compare dps as long as our core skills are reflected and their's is not.

He was speaking from a PVE perspective. As it is quite impossible to measure dps in pvp, and I have yet to see mobs do Flapity Flap.

Apologies. I had lost the context.

Vis

Any chances pets will ever scale off of max stamina too? I mean , if you are going to pigeon hole us into pet builds, matter as well let stamina sorcs join in on the toggle mancing.

ToRelax

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Jahosefat wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

Some of the folks in this thread may want to try another class. They don't seem to like the Sorc's Playstyle.

Some of us used to like it, then 1.6 happened.

Right now all I see is whining that a low cast ranged nuke is some how hard to pull off...

Says the Dragon knight...

Yes, says the Dragon Knight who's been a bow using DK for a better part of the games life... You know..that weapon with a low cast ranged "nuke" that doesn't have the aid of a teleport to create distance between my target and myself.

I think this is what is called "de-railing" a thread. But I will respond: if I had an infinite reflect that cost mag on live I wouldn't worry about casting anything either . Thank you for your input.

You mean that Reflect that can be countered by any sorc equipping a 1hd/shield?

Don't get me wrong, Reflective Scale is very overpowered, and it deserves a nerf..But pretending that casting CS is hard to get off is silly. Its no harder to get off then Lethal Arrow, and Lethal Arrow is a joke to get off.

A sorc can interrupt that Lethal Arrow by a DK if he is using Destro/Shield as his weapons, essentially giving up his healing.

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Jahosefat wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

Some of the folks in this thread may want to try another class. They don't seem to like the Sorc's Playstyle.

Some of us used to like it, then 1.6 happened.

Right now all I see is whining that a low cast ranged nuke is some how hard to pull off...

Says the Dragon knight...

Yes, says the Dragon Knight who's been a bow using DK for a better part of the games life... You know..that weapon with a low cast ranged "nuke" that doesn't have the aid of a teleport to create distance between my target and myself.

I think this is what is called "de-railing" a thread. But I will respond: if I had an infinite reflect that cost mag on live I wouldn't worry about casting anything either . Thank you for your input.

You mean that Reflect that can be countered by any sorc equipping a 1hd/shield?

Because every magicka sorc should have a stamina weapon and spend tons of stamina with his magicka to fire off his class defining attack, all while timing like a pro. Which wouldn't work if spamming snipe like you. As a sorc, we chose to double our costs to get less dps than other classes. Why? Because screw ezmode I guess.

(Read in Bud Light Real Men of Genius Voice)

Hats off to you again "Mr. OMG, Why Won't The Dirty Sorc Masses Just Build Entirely Around Me And Still Be Cool With Losing" guy. Your aloft attitude and two button spam while calling others skilless is what keeps the world turning.

I equip multiple Magicka based abilities with my Stamina DK to do exactly that, I don't whine and complain about it. Also Defensive Stance is incredibly cheap stamina wise, way less then the cost of Magicka of Reflective Scales for a Stamina Build. Also timing like a Pro? You realize Defensive Stance lasts like 30 seconds right? there is no timing required with it... I mean bloody hell, I slot Reflective Scales just to counter other DKs with it, I don't cry because i've had to put it on my bar.

Just that Defensive Stance is being countered by a light attack and costs quite a lot of stamina for a magicka sorc. If you don't time it correctly a destro sorc is literally gonna crush you unless you use BoL, wich makes both Sorcerers unabe to kill each other.

Countering Defensive Stance right before crystal shards hits with a light attack requires very good timing. It can be done, but it requires you to be on the ball. Against another Sorc you don't even need defensive stance...BoL is just that powerful.

Sorry, but if you think a simple animation cancel is an accomplishment... idk what to tell you .
If you are talking about the good timing it takes to reflect the Crystal Fragments - I think then you got it .

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

But pretending that casting CS is hard to get off is silly. Its no harder to get off then Lethal Arrow, and Lethal Arrow is a joke to get off.

Are you lol-farming or what?

DK: scales -> snipe -> snipe -> scales -> hue. Only scales can reflect snipes, and yours will always counter reflect. Of course lethal arrow is a joke to get off like that, you don't have to think at about risk/reward.

Sorc: reflect -> shard -> reflect -> shard -> wait a sec...
More like: reflect -> shard -> enemy light staff atk -> shard still casting animation -> enemy crushy shock -> owie

How does sorc stop DK from sniping?

DK: scales -> snipe
Sorc: crushy sho... oh wait

DK: scales -> snipe
Sorc: crystal shar... oh wait

DK: scales -> snipe
Sorc: reflect -> pray you have shard proc rdy -> shard travel time... oh wait


Yeah, shards is really easy to get off if I don't mind having it reflected back into my face all the time. The above is why caster sorc will just blinky blink away in that situation, unless the DK is a baddie.

[...]

now with that said..did you really just ask how does a Sorc stop a DK from sniping? Are you bloody serious? you have a teleport that absorbs Projectiles..and you're asking how you stop a DK from sniping?

Made my day. And it's just 5 am .

olsborg

Ive probably said this before, but everyone using Light armor and relying on damage shields to mitigate the major portion of incoming damage, is gonna be in a heap of trouble in 1.6 if what EricW said is right, that Critical Surge will work on damage shields, that means they are crittable, and will be gone in a millisecond in pvp and youre left with light armor mitigation to survive, wich is next to nothing. Gone baby gone:)

Liea

Dracane wrote: »

Jahosefat wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Nah bro let's be super duper cereal here. Did you just say that ball of light absorbs snipe??

He did say ball of light absorbs snipe..... oh if only it did my friend Again, so glad our DK friends can contribute so much to our sorc discussion.

Yea in their imagination, we are a strong class. We should give this imagination to the developers.

We all know why dragonknights see us as a strong class: When a dragonknight in PVP charges into 5 non-dragonknight enemies he expects to kill them all; if one of those enemies manages to escape death, well, then that looks like a damn overpowered class to dragonknights.

Sacadon

Xeniph wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

I love how most of the non-Sorc answers to how to fix our F'd up Class Skills involves countering with a specific Weapon Skill.

"Your class skills aren't broken, just don't use class skills."

FFS.

I love how some of the Sorcs, complain and just swear that their class is the only one who have issues dealing with certain mechanics.

If you honestly don't think other classes have the same "Rock/Paper/Scissors" meta to deal with, I don't know what to say.

And while I am at it, I'm going to mention that I do play a Sorc, and don't have most of the issues some folks on here are complaining about.

This really is all about "The grass is greener" on the other classes.

Fact is, Sorcs have an amazing took kit. While your playstyle may have been effected in 1.6. We have to tools to adjust.

Yup, all classes have their sets of issues for sure. I don't think that's a logical justification for those who would like to see improvement for sorcs to talk about it and request that ZOS make changes.

Merlin13KAGL

Xeniph wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

I love how most of the non-Sorc answers to how to fix our F'd up Class Skills involves countering with a specific Weapon Skill.

"Your class skills aren't broken, just don't use class skills."

FFS.

I love how some of the Sorcs, complain and just swear that their class is the only one who have issues dealing with certain mechanics.

If you honestly don't think other classes have the same "Rock/Paper/Scissors" meta to deal with, I don't know what to say.

And while I am at it, I'm going to mention that I do play a Sorc, and don't have most of the issues some folks on here are complaining about.

This really is all about "The grass is greener" on the other classes.

Fact is, Sorcs have an amazing took kit. While your playstyle may have been effected in 1.6. We have to tools to adjust.

You play a Sorc and don't have the issues of the class, huh?

Please screenshot the class heal you, alone, received?

Please enlighten us how other classes have to rely primarily on particular weapons in order to be functional?

Please indicate the 3 skills in the other class lines that take 6 slots on your bar?

We're not saying other classes don't have to deal with certain mechanics issues - perhaps you should take that argument to those threads, hmm?

I think you mistake "I played a Sorc" for "I play a Sorc."

Joy_Division

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

But pretending that casting CS is hard to get off is silly. Its no harder to get off then Lethal Arrow, and Lethal Arrow is a joke to get off.

Are you lol-farming or what?

DK: scales -> snipe -> snipe -> scales -> hue. Only scales can reflect snipes, and yours will always counter reflect. Of course lethal arrow is a joke to get off like that, you don't have to think at about risk/reward.

Sorc: reflect -> shard -> reflect -> shard -> wait a sec...
More like: reflect -> shard -> enemy light staff atk -> shard still casting animation -> enemy crushy shock -> owie

How does sorc stop DK from sniping?

DK: scales -> snipe
Sorc: crushy sho... oh wait

DK: scales -> snipe
Sorc: crystal shar... oh wait

DK: scales -> snipe
Sorc: reflect -> pray you have shard proc rdy -> shard travel time... oh wait


Yeah, shards is really easy to get off if I don't mind having it reflected back into my face all the time. The above is why caster sorc will just blinky blink away in that situation, unless the DK is a baddie.

Rofl, wow I didn't think you were this bad but ok.

Whining bout the cast time on on crystal shards is not the same thing as whining about your spells being reflected...Your spell possibility being reflected by 1 of the 4 classes most of the time does not make your spell hard to get off, it makes that class harder for you to just instant gib. I will say right now when I fight a Sorc with Shield I don't pop Reflective Scales anymore simply because Its going to be reflected onto me. I'd rather save the mana.. reason I run scales 90% of the time in PvP now is other DK's and killing them... the other 10% is for the Sorcs dumb enough not to run Shield.

now with that said..did you really just ask how does a Sorc stop a DK from sniping? Are you bloody serious? you have a teleport that absorbs Projectiles..and you're asking how you stop a DK from sniping?

Dude, it's one thing to be biased, but you are just wrong. Just take your DK and your factually incorrect and specious "arguments" to another thread

Jahosefat

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

I love how most of the non-Sorc answers to how to fix our F'd up Class Skills involves countering with a specific Weapon Skill.

"Your class skills aren't broken, just don't use class skills."

FFS.

I love how some of the Sorcs, complain and just swear that their class is the only one who have issues dealing with certain mechanics.

If you honestly don't think other classes have the same "Rock/Paper/Scissors" meta to deal with, I don't know what to say.

And while I am at it, I'm going to mention that I do play a Sorc, and don't have most of the issues some folks on here are complaining about.

This really is all about "The grass is greener" on the other classes.

Fact is, Sorcs have an amazing took kit. While your playstyle may have been effected in 1.6. We have to tools to adjust.

You play a Sorc and don't have the issues of the class, huh?

Please screenshot the class heal you, alone, received?

Please enlighten us how other classes have to rely primarily on particular weapons in order to be functional?

Please indicate the 3 skills in the other class lines that take 6 slots on your bar?

We're not saying other classes don't have to deal with certain mechanics issues - perhaps you should take that argument to those threads, hmm?

I think you mistake "I played a Sorc" for "I play a Sorc."

These are just NB and DK mains that are coming in and trolling the sorc threads to try to keep us from getting the buffs we need to compete in 1.6. Go take a look at the the NB and DK threads; not a single sorc there derailing the thread saying "Oh no your class is fine, I play all classes (but I really just main on one) and I would really like to keep sorcs gimp so my NB/DK can own the world in 1.6". Sorcs don't go into those threads because we are too concerned with our own problems; DK and NB have the time to come into the sorc threads and try to discredit all of the entirely legitimate concerns for the class that is behind another class in every aspect of this game other than running away. Don't let the NB and DK hijack this thread, they are going to be incredibly overpowered once med armor/stam is the go-to-combo and sorcs have pitifull stam synergy and the most expensive class abilities in the game.

Kypho

Sorcerer feedback: Sorc is OP. Need nerf to ballance. And remove lolshieldstacking BS

Kypho

Jitterbug wrote: »

My 2H Sorc needs surge to heal without cooldown again...

Right now she's afraid to pick up a torchbug

2h has a heal. Sorry that you picked the most OP class in game, and cant play it.