Sorcerer Feedback for Eric Wrobel and the Combat Team

ArconSeptim

#Stifflerforthewin how are you all guys in the thread? You enjoy to torture the dev team? lol

Teargrants

Kypho wrote: »

Sorcerer feedback: Sorc is OP. Need nerf to ballance. And remove lolshieldstacking BS

^ Troll

Kypho wrote: »

Jitterbug wrote: »

My 2H Sorc needs surge to heal without cooldown again...

Right now she's afraid to pick up a torchbug

2h has a heal. Sorry that you picked the most OP class in game, and cant play it.

^ Troll

ArconSeptim wrote: »

#Stifflerforthewin how are you all guys in the thread? You enjoy to torture the dev team? lol

^ Troll

Carry on folks.

Grao

New patch is out and we got more nerfs. RIP Sorcerers.

Note to the Moderator: Snip at will, the more you snip, the least I feel like this game is worth my time and dedication.

Jaerlach

Guys, I have a sorc and can appreciate concerns for lightning splash, but since it ticks 0.5 sec instead of 1 sec it's actually the highest damage non ulti dot in 1.6. With basic magicka spec it does 1k dps when most dots do 500 and ulti do 1500.

Its damage isnt bad and it's an important synergy with scoria which is a key to good dps m

Crogster

I like the changes. If you think about the Sorc change with Expert mage it will increase our damage on spells such as force shock, crystal shards, pet damage etc by 6% if we have 3 sorcs spells for example on our bar aswell. I am keen to test this.

Teargrants

Jaerlach wrote: »

Guys, I have a sorc and can appreciate concerns for lightning splash, but since it ticks 0.5 sec instead of 1 sec it's actually the highest damage non ulti dot in 1.6. With basic magicka spec it does 1k dps when most dots do 500 and ulti do 1500.

Its damage isnt bad and it's an important synergy with scoria which is a key to good dps m

4m radius, smallest aoe in the game.

Ground targeted means time loss from casting it.

Teargrants

Crogster wrote: »

I like the changes. If you think about the Sorc change with Expert mage it will increase our damage on spells such as force shock, crystal shards, pet damage etc by 6% if we have 3 sorcs spells for example on our bar aswell. I am keen to test this.

6% increase to spell damage stat, that's not 6% damage boost to spell abilities.

xaraan

I like the changes myself, BUT... I think something else is needed:

The change to Expert Mage is cool (might need to give it a little more boost, but would wanna test first), but to really consider this change a good one you should probably bring down the cost on some of the skills in the tree now for losing the cost reduction. I do like that spell damage boost though as it will give sorcs harder hitting powers outside of the tree, especially with something like a staff vs other classes and will give caster sorcs the boost without giving that same boost to pet builds. Just want to see how worthwhile it is, as it might need to be a notch higher.

Aeternus

Make lightning splash and its morphs an instant 8m area spell like impulse

Robbmrp

Aimelin wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Aimelin wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

I believe a lot of people took Eric's description out of context.

Sorcs do have the most controllable burst rotation in the game, even though they lack a hard hitting spammable. That's why the Morph "Crystal Shards" is there in the first place.

A Sorc has so many option to proc that buff, that shards virtually becomes "spammable" Thus un-interruptible AND it has a cc to it.

Secondly, we do have an entire tree devoted to constant damage, which equates to an ability, the pets. While not optimal since you have to spend more slots.

Now I will say, that I believe, that CS should only be able to proc off offensive abilities. Bolting/bubbling and whatnot should in now way proc that buff, imo.

And just to clarify, currently in 1.5 Wrecking Blow/Snipe/Crystal Shards all have nearly the same cast time, suffer from the same interruption weakness. Yet you only hear Sorcs say "That's not viable to hard cast" Keeping in mind only CS has the ability to become instant cast, and does more damage than ANY class ranged ability. Now in 1.6 Wrecking blow received an uninterruptable buff (as all melee abilities should be)

As to the bubble nerf, we will have to wait for the patch notes to see what was really changed, and if it went too far or not.

have you read most of the sorcs threads / posts? most abilities dont proc CS anymore ..... saying that it becomes virtually "spammable" is so much bs

they need to either gives us a spammable dps skill like NBs can spam ambush and w/e other high hitting skill, like DKs that spam 700-800 dmg whips for days, or change CS to instant cast ....

buffing useless abilities like lightning splash isnt going to fix sorcs .... not even close for sustained dps, some dude can just proc the synergy and there goes ur dumb lil lightning field

Turning useless abilities into something useful is exactly the way to go.

Also I want to see those DKs hitting for 700-800 dmg whips and the NBs doing damage with Ambush spam .

buffing lightning splash doesnt make it useful ...

and if you've never seen those numbers from whip in pvp on live then i don't know tafak you been playing man

Especially when they remove the initial bonus damage!

Robbmrp

Aimelin wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Aimelin wrote: »

this right here, if the effect of splash continue after using the synergy, why remove the visual ....

afaik it just goes away as in, you "use up" the splash for the synergy

So what does that mean ? I don't understand.

it means they're buffing a useless ability that no one uses caus it has a 4 meter radius and you can just side step out of it, sustain dmg my ass

If they want to make it an effective DPS spell they need to include a stun in it or a knock down. That way it will continue to do damage for a little bit. They need to put the initial bonus back on it as well as 2x the damage imo. That would help for both PVE and PVP.

XEVENEX

Confirmed shards still do not proc on Streak and Encase.

I'm going to go ahead and assume this is a ninja nerf boys, not a bug. I'm really not liking ZOS right now.

Jaerlach

Teargrants wrote: »

Jaerlach wrote: »

Guys, I have a sorc and can appreciate concerns for lightning splash, but since it ticks 0.5 sec instead of 1 sec it's actually the highest damage non ulti dot in 1.6. With basic magicka spec it does 1k dps when most dots do 500 and ulti do 1500.

Its damage isnt bad and it's an important synergy with scoria which is a key to good dps m

4m radius, smallest aoe in the game.

Ground targeted means time loss from casting it.

It's aimed at pve, it it does 4x the damage of elemental wall. Its gonna be awful in pvp unless cast on flags.

Exstazik

Crogster wrote: »

I like the changes. If you think about the Sorc change with Expert mage it will increase our damage on spells such as force shock, crystal shards, pet damage etc by 6% if we have 3 sorcs spells for example on our bar aswell. I am keen to test this.

Example:
you have 1000 spell damage without expet mage.With surge/entropy you have 1200.With expert mage (1000+6%)*1,20

Robbmrp

One question I have for the Dev team is WHERE is the Sorceress that they depict on the Trailers? She is by no means a Pet manager and shows VERY destructive powers yet is nothing like an actual Sorcerer within the game. Those video's are VERY misleading letting consumers believe they can create a character like that. The lightning spells we have do very little damage when they should be the exact opposite. Those should be the most destructive spells. I'm not saying that we should be able to blow holes in keeps but it would be nice IMO if we could actually kill ONE THING with using just a couple of Lightning spells while NOT having to rely on skills outside the class line.

Make CS an instant cast spell but reduce damage and remove the knockdown. Make Encase more reliable for CC. Double or Triple the base damage for Storm Calling abilities. There's a lot they could do to make a Sorcerer without pets a more desireable character for PVE, PVP and all End Game content.

ToRelax

ArconSeptim wrote: »

#Stifflerforthewin how are you all guys in the thread? You enjoy to torture the dev team? lol

If we can agree that DK is stronger than Sorc on

Robbmrp wrote: »

One question I have for the Dev team is WHERE is the Sorceress that they depict on the Trailers? She is by no means a Pet manager and shows VERY destructive powers yet is nothing like an actual Sorcerer within the game. Those video's are VERY misleading letting consumers believe they can create a character like that. The lightning spells we have do very little damage when they should be the exact opposite. Those should be the most destructive spells. I'm not saying that we should be able to blow holes in keeps but it would be nice IMO if we could actually kill ONE THING with using just a couple of Lightning spells while NOT having to rely on skills outside the class line.

Make CS an instant cast spell but reduce damage and remove the knockdown. Make Encase more reliable for CC. Double or Triple the base damage for Storm Calling abilities. There's a lot they could do to make a Sorcerer without pets a more desireable character for PVE, PVP and all End Game content.

Yes, I always wondered why the Stormcalling Spells are in fact our lowest damaging abilities...

I also wonder why they seem to be afraid to give Sorc higher buffs than that laughable Expert Mage passive when in the testing phase of an update trying to overhaul the whole game. Although it doesn't surprise me.

Teargrants

Robbmrp wrote: »

One question I have for the Dev team is WHERE is the Sorceress that they depict on the Trailers? She is by no means a Pet manager and shows VERY destructive powers yet is nothing like an actual Sorcerer within the game. Those video's are VERY misleading letting consumers believe they can create a character like that.

After the trailer, they chained her back up and threw her in a hole, along with the scamp catapults never to see the light of day.

Vis

Did we misspell Eric's name. Because considering all these nerfs, he seems pretty mad at all us sorcs. Yo Eric, where is the love man?

Aimelin

Vis wrote: »

Did we misspell Eric's name. Because considering all these nerfs, he seems pretty mad at all us sorcs. Yo Eric, where is the love man?

DK is life, DK is love ... DK so not OP

Dracane

I can confirm, Expert Mage does not make a noticeable change. And the bonus of Mage's guild abilities gives me more extra damage than Expert Mage.

I myself don't care for the higher cost of stormcalling abilities, it's not a big deal if you see it in game. But the new Expert Mage is rather a nerf in my opinion. Less cost is still better than this tiny buff

And to be honest, my power is almost wasted. I don't know, if I can carry on fighting for Sorcerers. I think, ZoS and our enemies have won. There is only 1 last hope: ESO live happened earlier last week and they already knew about the changes to lightning splash and Expert Mage. So this means, 1.6.3 was as good as finished.

We brought up many good ideas just last week. So maybe this is going to make it into 1.6.4. If this is not the case, we have to admit our loose.

@Derra @ezareth_ESO @Vis @XEVENEX @Snip : my fellow Sorcs, hug me, I need you

Sypher

Dracane wrote: »

I can confirm, Expert Mage does not make a noticeable change. And the bonus of Mage's guild abilities gives me more extra damage than Expert Mage.

I myself don't care for the higher cost of stormcalling abilities, it's not a big deal if you see it in game. But the new Expert Mage is rather a nerf in my opinion. Less cost is still better than this tiny buff

And to be honest, my power is almost wasted. I don't know, if I can carry on fighting for Sorcerers. I think, ZoS and our enemies have won. There is only 1 last hope: ESO live happened earlier last week and they already knew about the changes to lightning splash and Expert Mage. So this means, 1.6.3 was as good as finished.

We brought up many good ideas just last week. So maybe this is going to make it into 1.6.4. If this is not the case, we have to admit our loose.

@Derra @ezareth_ESO @Vis @XEVENEX @Snip : my fellow Sorcs, hug me, I need you

I made a sorc last night. *Hugs*

Dracane

Sypher wrote: »

I made a sorc last night. *Hugs*

Awww. I knew, my Sypher is with me

rfennell_ESO

Gyudan wrote: »

Sadly sorcerer seems to be the least effective class at stamina DPS and tanking, so I don't see much use in switching to 2H and S&B now.

I think that the 1.6 ranking will be somewhere around this in PVE endgame content:

Magicka DPS:
Dragonknight >= Templar >= Nightblade > Sorcerer

Stamina DPS:
Templar > Dragonknight >= Nightblade > Sorcerer

Healing:
Templar > Nightblade >> Sorcerer >> Dragonknight

Tanking:
Dragonknight > Templar > Nightblade >> Sorcerer

Rejoice! We're not the worst healers!

You forgot about the rock shield ability that gives dks extra healing (30%), unless they changed it in 1.6.

If they still have it, Sorcerer is also the worst healer.

Grao

Dracane wrote: »

I can confirm, Expert Mage does not make a noticeable change. And the bonus of Mage's guild abilities gives me more extra damage than Expert Mage.

I myself don't care for the higher cost of stormcalling abilities, it's not a big deal if you see it in game. But the new Expert Mage is rather a nerf in my opinion. Less cost is still better than this tiny buff

And to be honest, my power is almost wasted. I don't know, if I can carry on fighting for Sorcerers. I think, ZoS and our enemies have won. There is only 1 last hope: ESO live happened earlier last week and they already knew about the changes to lightning splash and Expert Mage. So this means, 1.6.3 was as good as finished.

We brought up many good ideas just last week. So maybe this is going to make it into 1.6.4. If this is not the case, we have to admit our loose.

@Derra @ezareth_ESO @Vis @XEVENEX @Snip : my fellow Sorcs, hug me, I need you

*hug* Maybe we should create a support group? OSA - Outraged Sorcerers Anonymous? Or better! OSO Outraged Sorcerers Online!

rfennell_ESO

Xeniph wrote: »

I love how some of the Sorcs, complain and just swear that their class is the only one who have issues dealing with certain mechanics.

If you honestly don't think other classes have the same "Rock/Paper/Scissors" meta to deal with, I don't know what to say.

And while I am at it, I'm going to mention that I do play a Sorc, and don't have most of the issues some folks on here are complaining about.

This really is all about "The grass is greener" on the other classes.

Fact is, Sorcs have an amazing took kit. While your playstyle may have been effected in 1.6. We have to tools to adjust.

Part of your endless stream of "we" when you mean "my bank alt" while you win at everything on your dk.

Sorc's don't have a toolkit. They have a broken box without a lid with big gaping holes in it that is partially filled with tools for things you don't need them for. Reach for the wrench and find a unsharpened corkscrew.

Ezareth

Dracane wrote: »

I can confirm, Expert Mage does not make a noticeable change. And the bonus of Mage's guild abilities gives me more extra damage than Expert Mage.

I myself don't care for the higher cost of stormcalling abilities, it's not a big deal if you see it in game. But the new Expert Mage is rather a nerf in my opinion. Less cost is still better than this tiny buff

And to be honest, my power is almost wasted. I don't know, if I can carry on fighting for Sorcerers. I think, ZoS and our enemies have won. There is only 1 last hope: ESO live happened earlier last week and they already knew about the changes to lightning splash and Expert Mage. So this means, 1.6.3 was as good as finished.

We brought up many good ideas just last week. So maybe this is going to make it into 1.6.4. If this is not the case, we have to admit our loose.

@Derra @ezareth_ESO @Vis @XEVENEX @Snip : my fellow Sorcs, hug me, I need you

/Dark Exchange

I just can't understand why the devs would make this change other than yet another nerf aimed at bolt escape and then disguised as a "buff".

In all honesty it *is* a slight buff to PvE players but only because no stormcalling abilities are spammed in PvE enough to make a difference.

I and every sorc I play with is pretty much in the pits right now. I for one don't know that I'll last until 1.6 with these changes to look forward to.

My sorc's mobility was the one thing I really enjoyed above all else in the game and now that is being significantly gimped. I dealt with the continuous damage nerfs, I dealt with the fact that my class is the easiest to counter in the game, but what I refuse to do is play a game where I'm at a pronounced disadvantage against equally skilled players using another class.

Maybe I'm all gloom and doom, I'm willing to wait how things work out, but above all I'm a realist and I can't find a better way to paint this.

C0pp3rhead

Grao wrote: »

*hug* Maybe we should create a support group? OSA - Outraged Sorcerers Anonymous? Or better! OSO Outraged Sorcerers Online!

Enraged Sorcerers Online.
Derp.

C0pp3rhead

Let me see if I understand:
The vast majority of Sorcs are outraged because:
Endgame PvE dps.
PvP is fine. Leveling is ok. Soloing is a non-issue. Non-veteran Dungeons are acceptable.
But Sorcs are excluded from high-end PvE content.
Why? Even the most skilled sorc players achieve barely acceptable dps.
Fixing the way that trial scores are evaluated will not change things.
Time can always be improved, other variables cannot.
All enemies killed with 0 deaths on hard mode, this is the max.
The higher the dps, the faster the time.
All else equal, dps will be the deciding factor in competitive PvE.
If I find myself in a 4-person group with a sorcerer, I pray that I'm not wasting my time.
A mediocre DK will be fine in almost any group as long as they follow directions.
An expert Sorc will have trouble getting an invite to a group that can complete SO.
A ground-based, expensive, AoE, DoT ability is not the answer.
A 5% increase in dps is not the answer.
Give sorcs the skills they need.

Xeniph

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

I love how most of the non-Sorc answers to how to fix our F'd up Class Skills involves countering with a specific Weapon Skill.

"Your class skills aren't broken, just don't use class skills."

FFS.

I love how some of the Sorcs, complain and just swear that their class is the only one who have issues dealing with certain mechanics.

If you honestly don't think other classes have the same "Rock/Paper/Scissors" meta to deal with, I don't know what to say.

And while I am at it, I'm going to mention that I do play a Sorc, and don't have most of the issues some folks on here are complaining about.

This really is all about "The grass is greener" on the other classes.

Fact is, Sorcs have an amazing took kit. While your playstyle may have been effected in 1.6. We have to tools to adjust.

You play a Sorc and don't have the issues of the class, huh?

Please screenshot the class heal you, alone, received?

Please enlighten us how other classes have to rely primarily on particular weapons in order to be functional?

Please indicate the 3 skills in the other class lines that take 6 slots on your bar?

We're not saying other classes don't have to deal with certain mechanics issues - perhaps you should take that argument to those threads, hmm?

I think you mistake "I played a Sorc" for "I play a Sorc."

As requested: With a typical PvP bar setup.

Regarding self heals<img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020507/uploads/FileUpload/3b/06356106a61547ca0a42cc98e341a1.png&quot; />

Using these stats:

<img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020507/uploads/FileUpload/45/d11289a758c9bc5c99b2840ac4bf7e.png&quot; />

Now for a comparison, I went ahead and geared a NB exactly the same. Using all class passives, just as the Sorc. Since these 2 classes lack a reliable self heal (So you claim)

Typical PvP Caster NB bar/spec:

<img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020507/uploads/FileUpload/c7/d64f5bf3515109048eee83c89ccc98.png&quot; />

As you can see the results are nearly identical. Using the same mob/level. Except of coarse the NB had to spam 3 more skills than the Sorc.

But wait....there's more!

The Sorc actually does have an on demand heal. Hardened ward heals (Basically grants more health) for 8250, it's quite cheap completely reliable doesn't suffer from heal debuff effects and is spammable . <Deduct 15% in PvP>

<img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020507/uploads/FileUpload/01/c89c5c498319b291755e98c7796fc1.png&quot; />

These screes were taken tonight on the pts. Both Classes were using the same gear and typical specs. Also both used 3 spell cost reduction enchant on jewels.

Your other concern about dependency on weapon skills are moot, as the Sorc is NOT reliant on them any more than other classes/specs. A dependency on these lines is created by somebody's specific spec and playstyle.

As to the toggle abilities, they are choices you have. You surely don't have to have some of them on both bars. And in no way is the Sorc class non-functional if they don't use them. Just as some of the other classes toggles. I myself kinda like choices.

Now I challenge you to show screens, by comparison of your argument to the contrary. And like I said I PLAY my Sorc. Have a nice evening.

Derra

Dracane wrote: »

I can confirm, Expert Mage does not make a noticeable change. And the bonus of Mage's guild abilities gives me more extra damage than Expert Mage.

I myself don't care for the higher cost of stormcalling abilities, it's not a big deal if you see it in game. But the new Expert Mage is rather a nerf in my opinion. Less cost is still better than this tiny buff

And to be honest, my power is almost wasted. I don't know, if I can carry on fighting for Sorcerers. I think, ZoS and our enemies have won. There is only 1 last hope: ESO live happened earlier last week and they already knew about the changes to lightning splash and Expert Mage. So this means, 1.6.3 was as good as finished.

We brought up many good ideas just last week. So maybe this is going to make it into 1.6.4. If this is not the case, we have to admit our loose.

@Derra @ezareth_ESO @Vis @XEVENEX @Snip : my fellow Sorcs, hug me, I need you

Well i don´t know what to make of this honestly. They have straight up nerfed sorc with this patch. I´ve stopped bothering by now. Will try my sorc once 1.6 goes live and if i find myself at a clear disadvantage against other classes i will stop playing.