1.6.2 Sorc Magicka Builds Still Ruined!!! I'm Done! ZoS Read!

Emma_Overload

If they don't get rid of the Critical Surge cooldown, Lightning Splash will last much longer than the Sorc who cast it!

TheBull

BRB making "1.6.2 NB Cloak Still Ruined!!! I'm Done! ZoS Read!" thread.

OtarTheMad

Now that someone pointed it out I just love the class description of Sorc's... lmao... "Destruction spells" you mean the TWO we have... I love it. Is Lightning Splash the "shock field" because if so... just no. And honestly nothing we have get the Sorc class close to being a Conjuration-type class.

Replace Rune Prison with an offensive spell (Repulse maybe idk) and turn Lightning Form into a weapon based Cloak. If you have a fire staff then it's a Fire Cloak, if you have an Ice Staff it's an Ice Cloak. If you have a Lightning Staff, Resto staff or any other weapon then it's a Lightning Cloak. I'd say replace Lightning Splash with a better spell... maybe something similar to the Fireball spell from Skyrim (exploding one). Still falls within what the class is called because you can have "Fire Storms" (at least in TES anyway)

Just my two cents because I don't want to spend time leveling another character to V14. As it stands right now I pretty much have to focus on one character with the Champion System so... I guess I'm choosing my Sorc... for now.

Snit

pppontus wrote: »

... I don't really care either way. I'll just play on my Sorcerer instead.

@pppontus‌ Well, clearly you do. And I went a too far in my comment in that other thread, for which I apologize. Really. It wasn't justified.

A year of constant "nerf sorcs so I can kill them easier," mostly from NB players, provokes a tendency to overreact and see more-of-the-same even when it may not be that.

Lussura

@pppontus What happened to you weren't posting here anyone? That you didn't want to waste your own time? How about stop wasting ours and leave.

Lussura

Snit wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

... I don't really care either way. I'll just play on my Sorcerer instead.

@pppontus‌ Well, clearly you do. And I went a too far in my comment in that other thread, for which I apologize. Really. It wasn't justified.

A year of constant "nerf sorcs so I can kill them easier," mostly from NB players, provokes a tendency to overreact and see more-of-the-same even when it may not be that.

Keep in mind this is the same poster who has nothing but qq threads on his profile.

Nightreaver

pppontus wrote: »

Watch out.. telling these people they aren't the worst DPS in the world is like .. insulting their mothers, or something. There is absolutely no way of reasoning with them. Just wait, soon they'll tell you that you don't even have a sorcerer, that you're an undercover Nightblade or something.

Well before you start condemning all Sorcerers understand that there are many of us in the same situation as @snipeopsub17_ESO who currently are enjoying the Sorcerer on PTS but have absolutely no idea how we compare to other classes. Though I will have to admit that I am really hoping that any testing will result in something better than *not the worst DPS in the World*.

pppontus wrote: »

I'll get you some proper DPS numbers as soon as I get my characters copied again (EU).
My prediction:
Magicka Melee DK > Stamina Melee NB > Stamina Melee Templar > Stamina Melee DK > Ranged Magicka Sorc > Ranged Magicka Templar/NB/DK > Ranged Stamina Bow (Any Class).

Then again, you don't have to believe me, but I have done SO & AA on the PTS, as well as a large number of dungeons etc. so I believe I have pretty decent knowledge. The fact that I have at least a VR14 of each class.. it helps. I know the ins and outs of every class and spec,

Well that would be awesome and I'm sure very much appreciated by myself and many if not most other Sorcerers for the time and effort. I'm sure seeing actual test results by someone so well versed in all classes will go a long way to enlightening Sorcerers anxious for some concrete information. Currently most of our information comes from vague unsubstantiated statements found throughout the forums claiming Sorcerers are anywhere from completely useless to extremely OP and far less information that provides any indication as how we fare in comparison to other classes.

So thanks ahead of time

xherics

This guy, pppontus has big speaking only, but no proper provement (yet)... So, HAHA

pppontus

Nightreaver wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Watch out.. telling these people they aren't the worst DPS in the world is like .. insulting their mothers, or something. There is absolutely no way of reasoning with them. Just wait, soon they'll tell you that you don't even have a sorcerer, that you're an undercover Nightblade or something.

Well before you start condemning all Sorcerers understand that there are many of us in the same situation as @snipeopsub17_ESO who currently are enjoying the Sorcerer on PTS but have absolutely no idea how we compare to other classes. Though I will have to admit that I am really hoping that any testing will result in something better than *not the worst DPS in the World*.

pppontus wrote: »

I'll get you some proper DPS numbers as soon as I get my characters copied again (EU).
My prediction:
Magicka Melee DK > Stamina Melee NB > Stamina Melee Templar > Stamina Melee DK > Ranged Magicka Sorc > Ranged Magicka Templar/NB/DK > Ranged Stamina Bow (Any Class).

Then again, you don't have to believe me, but I have done SO & AA on the PTS, as well as a large number of dungeons etc. so I believe I have pretty decent knowledge. The fact that I have at least a VR14 of each class.. it helps. I know the ins and outs of every class and spec,

Well that would be awesome and I'm sure very much appreciated by myself and many if not most other Sorcerers for the time and effort. I'm sure seeing actual test results by someone so well versed in all classes will go a long way to enlightening Sorcerers anxious for some concrete information. Currently most of our information comes from vague unsubstantiated statements found throughout the forums claiming Sorcerers are anywhere from completely useless to extremely OP and far less information that provides any indication as how we fare in comparison to other classes.

So thanks ahead of time

No problem, it's going to be quite interesting. I have some gear to collect this weekend then

Snit wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

... I don't really care either way. I'll just play on my Sorcerer instead.

@pppontus‌ Well, clearly you do. And I went a too far in my comment in that other thread, for which I apologize. Really. It wasn't justified.

A year of constant "nerf sorcs so I can kill them easier," mostly from NB players, provokes a tendency to overreact and see more-of-the-same even when it may not be that.

Thanks mate, it's appreciated. You can't believe how frustrating it is when people discredit your opinion that way, I really don't have any character that I play more than the others and I have no interest whatsoever in any of my characters being weaker than the other. If anything, I would want perfect game balance so that I could always play the one I felt like playing for every raid

Septimus_Magna

@Lussura‌ you are aware of the fact that all magicka sorcs on pts use CF, curse, entropy and ice comet? I think dps can be pretty good if you have a master desto staff and use destructive touch instead of CS.

ToRelax

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

@Lussura‌ you are aware of the fact that all magicka sorcs on pts use CF, curse, entropy and ice comet? I think dps can be pretty good if you have a master desto staff and use destructive touch instead of CS.

Destructive Touch is a DoT, there are still not enough skills you could use for your rotation to always have "something to do" without a spammable spell (wich is for Sorc even more needed to proc Crystal Fragments).

I'll go on pts and look if i can figure out a DoT build that does decent damage without Force Shock/morphs , but I doubt it.

Edit:
I've tried a bit around with Crystal Shards + Inner Light on both bars and Thundering Presence, Velocious Curse, Elemental Touch, the DoT morph of Firerune, Degeneration and Liquid Lightning (wich will be buffed next patch).

Also tried Mines but it really doesn't work very well (and probably not at all against some bosses).

I'd have to train a bit more with a build like that once EU chars are on PTS again, can't tell yet *** good the dps really is. If it goes over 10k somehow, not much at least.

Gandogal

deleted couse wrong topic

Jimm_ay

All depends how you build and what you use I guess..

Septimus_Magna

@mike.gaziotisb16_ESO
I usually use streak to re-stun

ToRelax wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

@Lussura‌ you are aware of the fact that all magicka sorcs on pts use CF, curse, entropy and ice comet? I think dps can be pretty good if you have a master desto staff and use destructive touch instead of CS.

Destructive Touch is a DoT, there are still not enough skills you could use for your rotation to always have "something to do" without a spammable spell (wich is for Sorc even more needed to proc Crystal Fragments).

I'll go on pts and look if i can figure out a DoT build that does decent damage without Force Shock/morphs , but I doubt it.

Edit:
I've tried a bit around with Crystal Shards + Inner Light on both bars and Thundering Presence, Velocious Curse, Elemental Touch, the DoT morph of Firerune, Degeneration and Liquid Lightning (wich will be buffed next patch).

Also tried Mines but it really doesn't work very well (and probably not at all against some bosses).

I'd have to train a bit more with a build like that once EU chars are on PTS again, can't tell yet *** good the dps really is. If it goes over 10k somehow, not much at least.

Destructive Touch not just a DOT, is has decent base damage with a short DOT. With the master destro staff you have increased damage and decreased cost which makes it spamable, especially if someone in the group is running elemental drain. So I think end game pve dps wont be bad, especially because sorcs get survivabiliy with increased magicka from hardened ward. Other magicka dps classes probably have to invest in health to prevent getting one-shot at boss fights.

Aimelin

Jimm_ay wrote: »

All depends how you build and what you use I guess..

nice euhm, magicka build you have there with most of your dmg coming from dual wield ... troll much?

Jimm_ay

I'm not trolling. I said it all depends on how you build. My Build is actually dual magicka stamina (with more magicka than stamina)- I pull similar numbers with staff - (you do notice steel is only 49% of the damage). I am using 3 sorc abilities Crit Surge, Thundering Presence and Liquid Lightning - stacking that with dual weild and poison..look I hate they reduced crushing shock too, but since they changed some things to go off stamina and weapon damage you have to adapt.

Jahosefat

Loosely taken from the ESO live:

Question (from some pancake guy ): Will sorcs be getting a spammable instant cast damage ability to help sustain our dps?

Response: Well sorcs have the instant cast curse and frags proc, and now lightning splash will last 5 seconds longer. So basically no we don't want sorcs to have sustained DPS outside of the pet togglemancer, and just to reinforce this we are going to nerf the one magicka ability you were using to fill this gap, crushing shock. You can all just go ahead and reroll if you don't want to use pets or try to gank people with frags/curse. Oh and by the way we want sorcs to get blown up before they are able to streak away from fights, so we are nerfing your only defensive abilities. First we will reduce all shields in Cyr by 15% and we are also going to make bolt escape cost 10% more by changing your passive. We will replace this with a minor damage buff that gets better if you put more of your useless abilities on the bar. Thanks for your time sorcs, we really want you to reroll another class.

Snit

Jahosefat wrote: »

Loosely taken from the ESO live:

Question (from some pancake guy ): Will sorcs be getting a spammable instant cast damage ability to help sustain our dps?

Response: Well sorcs have the instant cast curse and frags proc, and now lightning splash will last 5 seconds longer. So basically no we don't want sorcs to have sustained DPS outside of the pet togglemancer, and just to reinforce this we are going to nerf the one magicka ability you were using to fill this gap, crushing shock. You can all just go ahead and reroll if you don't want to use pets or try to gank people with frags/curse. Oh and by the way we want sorcs to get blown up before they are able to streak away from fights, so we are nerfing your only defensive abilities. First we will reduce all shields in Cyr by 15% and we are also going to make bolt escape cost 10% more by changing your passive. We will replace this with a minor damage buff that gets better if you put more of your useless abilities on the bar. Thanks for your time sorcs, we really want you to reroll another class.

I mostly agree with you, but I heard some of these comments a bit differently:

- The change to Lightning Splash and (particularly) Expert Mage are specifically designed to give sorcs sustained, PvE DPS aside from pets. Will it work? No idea, but that is their stated intention
- They don't think Crushing Shock's nerf will effect our DPS, as we can switch to the other morph, Force Pulse, to get that 10% back at the expense of an interrupt. Of course, my testing showed that Force Pulse does not do more damage (though I only tested rank 1. I lacked the patience to level it up)
- We don't know that Expert Mage is losing the magicka cost reduction. It may be getting a new effect. In any case, I'm not sure that's a huge issue, as that tree is not where we spend most of our magicka anyway
- The shield thing has me on the verge of moving on, too. If it's a 15% debuff and they can now be crit, that's cutting our shields nearly in half. Every 2H warrior in medium will 2-shot us. Sounds fun, you know.. for them

We'll know more next week.

Jahosefat

Snit wrote: »

Jahosefat wrote: »

Loosely taken from the ESO live:

Question (from some pancake guy ): Will sorcs be getting a spammable instant cast damage ability to help sustain our dps?

Response: Well sorcs have the instant cast curse and frags proc, and now lightning splash will last 5 seconds longer. So basically no we don't want sorcs to have sustained DPS outside of the pet togglemancer, and just to reinforce this we are going to nerf the one magicka ability you were using to fill this gap, crushing shock. You can all just go ahead and reroll if you don't want to use pets or try to gank people with frags/curse. Oh and by the way we want sorcs to get blown up before they are able to streak away from fights, so we are nerfing your only defensive abilities. First we will reduce all shields in Cyr by 15% and we are also going to make bolt escape cost 10% more by changing your passive. We will replace this with a minor damage buff that gets better if you put more of your useless abilities on the bar. Thanks for your time sorcs, we really want you to reroll another class.

I mostly agree with you, but I heard some of these comments a bit differently:

- The change to Lightning Splash and (particularly) Expert Mage are specifically designed to give sorcs sustained, PvE DPS aside from pets. Will it work? No idea, but that is their stated intention
- They don't think Crushing Shock's nerf will effect our DPS, as we can switch to the other morph, Force Pulse, to get that 10% back at the expense of an interrupt. Of course, my testing showed that Force Pulse does not do more damage (though I only tested rank 1. I lacked the patience to level it up)
- We don't know that Expert Mage is losing the magicka cost reduction. It may be getting a new effect. In any case, I'm not sure that's a huge issue, as that tree is not where we spend most of our magicka anyway
- The shield thing has me on the verge of moving on, too. If it's a 15% debuff and they can now be crit, that's cutting our shields nearly in half. Every 2H warrior in medium will 2-shot us. Sounds fun, you know.. for them

We'll know more next week.

Overall I just don't see it as a postive change for sorcs. We got what 2 buffs and a handfull of nerfs? Overall this just feels like another nerf that is veiled by "oh we made lightning splash better and you will get a small damage buff! Please ignore the handfull of other nerfs we are shoving down your throats".

Aimelin

Snit wrote: »

Jahosefat wrote: »

Loosely taken from the ESO live:

Question (from some pancake guy ): Will sorcs be getting a spammable instant cast damage ability to help sustain our dps?

Response: Well sorcs have the instant cast curse and frags proc, and now lightning splash will last 5 seconds longer. So basically no we don't want sorcs to have sustained DPS outside of the pet togglemancer, and just to reinforce this we are going to nerf the one magicka ability you were using to fill this gap, crushing shock. You can all just go ahead and reroll if you don't want to use pets or try to gank people with frags/curse. Oh and by the way we want sorcs to get blown up before they are able to streak away from fights, so we are nerfing your only defensive abilities. First we will reduce all shields in Cyr by 15% and we are also going to make bolt escape cost 10% more by changing your passive. We will replace this with a minor damage buff that gets better if you put more of your useless abilities on the bar. Thanks for your time sorcs, we really want you to reroll another class.

I mostly agree with you, but I heard some of these comments a bit differently:

- The change to Lightning Splash and (particularly) Expert Mage are specifically designed to give sorcs sustained, PvE DPS aside from pets. Will it work? No idea, but that is their stated intention
- They don't think Crushing Shock's nerf will effect our DPS, as we can switch to the other morph, Force Pulse, to get that 10% back at the expense of an interrupt. Of course, my testing showed that Force Pulse does not do more damage (though I only tested rank 1. I lacked the patience to level it up)
- We don't know that Expert Mage is losing the magicka cost reduction. It may be getting a new effect. In any case, I'm not sure that's a huge issue, as that tree is not where we spend most of our magicka anyway
- The shield thing has me on the verge of moving on, too. If it's a 15% debuff and they can now be crit, that's cutting our shields nearly in half. Every 2H warrior in medium will 2-shot us. Sounds fun, you know.. for them

We'll know more next week.

as mentioned in another thread, interrupts are going to be needed more with templars new death ray ... also why only a crushing shock nerf then ? venom arrows a ranged interrupt, don't see a nerf there

Snit

Aimelin wrote: »

as mentioned in another thread, interrupts are going to be needed more with templars new death ray ...

I agree. But I think this is a spot where presenting a difficult choice makes sense. If we can choose between a spammable ranged interrupt or 10% more damage, I think that's fine. There shouldn't be one best answer to every morph.

rfennell_ESO

It seems they have been making decision based on pvp duels.

My guess is the "dueling" is rigged with certain classes setting themselves up to fail. Mostly because real pvp is all about dk and vamp.

Can a sorc with an op shield take on 20 players and kill half of them and live? Lolz, no they can't. Can a DK Vamp take on 20 players and kill half of them and live? Happens every single day in cyro... Now make that dk-vamp an emperor and you can increase that to 40 players and live...

Now if you haven't been pvping and participating much in the alliance war it would be easy to say I'm a liar or that I'm exaggerating. My response would be, give alliance war a try for a couple days.

As a sorc you will quickly find the best way to deal with dks and especially dk-vamps is to streak/bolt away and fight someone else. You can't kill them, they reflect anything that you can do that is enough damage to matter. Just make sure you streak/bolt far enough away they can't charge in, talons, devouring and then keep spamming talons while you melt. Or maybe just start whipping you and healing themselves (lolz).

The only way to "deal" with dks and particularly dk-vamps is to listen to the raid leader in TS say everyone spread out and use resto staves. While this is a tactic that works, having to compensate for a particular class with everyone run away from them and use resto staff channel on them is laughable. That is what happens every single day in the alliance war...

I've seen some emporers take on 2 FULL raids solo and kill people. One dk emp (90% of emps are dks anyways it seems) is so powerful that it's just laughable. It's the most seriously overpowered and broken thing I have ever seen in a game.

The other day I was in cyro and some random dk vamp attacked a group of veteran pvpers I was with. Now we all knew to get away so he can't feed, don't play into his strength and all that. Did we win? He died after a minute or so with 8 people on him.... That's not winning. I think he killed 2 of us. This is the usual for cyro... Happens multiple times every day. Success is how many dks do you have... and that's just wrong.

I hate to bash dks so much, I have one myself... but really the thing that makes sorcs so bad is that dks are so good.

Aimelin

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

It seems they have been making decision based on pvp duels.

My guess is the "dueling" is rigged with certain classes setting themselves up to fail. Mostly because real pvp is all about dk and vamp.

Can a sorc with an op shield take on 20 players and kill half of them and live? Lolz, no they can't. Can a DK Vamp take on 20 players and kill half of them and live? Happens every single day in cyro... Now make that dk-vamp an emperor and you can increase that to 40 players and live...

Now if you haven't been pvping and participating much in the alliance war it would be easy to say I'm a liar or that I'm exaggerating. My response would be, give alliance war a try for a couple days.

As a sorc you will quickly find the best way to deal with dks and especially dk-vamps is to streak/bolt away and fight someone else. You can't kill them, they reflect anything that you can do that is enough damage to matter. Just make sure you streak/bolt far enough away they can't charge in, talons, devouring and then keep spamming talons while you melt. Or maybe just start whipping you and healing themselves (lolz).

The only way to "deal" with dks and particularly dk-vamps is to listen to the raid leader in TS say everyone spread out and use resto staves. While this is a tactic that works, having to compensate for a particular class with everyone run away from them and use resto staff channel on them is laughable. That is what happens every single day in the alliance war...

I've seen some emporers take on 2 FULL raids solo and kill people. One dk emp (90% of emps are dks anyways it seems) is so powerful that it's just laughable. It's the most seriously overpowered and broken thing I have ever seen in a game.

The other day I was in cyro and some random dk vamp attacked a group of veteran pvpers I was with. Now we all knew to get away so he can't feed, don't play into his strength and all that. Did we win? He died after a minute or so with 8 people on him.... That's not winning. I think he killed 2 of us. This is the usual for cyro... Happens multiple times every day. Success is how many dks do you have... and that's just wrong.

I hate to bash dks so much, I have one myself... but really the thing that makes sorcs so bad is that dks are so good.

agreed 100%.

But you have to admit, flapping some magical wings that dissapear again out of nowhere is in their eyes, a valid tactic, not OP at all, and they'll just say: lelz nab l2p scrub huehue

we can make a 1000 threads about how ridiculously op scales is, it'll never get nerfed or changed so meh, as i said before, they just want us to roll dks, flap our wings at eachother in melee (as ALOT of dks do anyway, thinking they can reflect a sword, huehuehuehue) and spam GDB... Elder Scales Online

rfennell_ESO

Aimelin wrote: »

agreed 100%.

But you have to admit, flapping some magical wings that dissapear again out of nowhere is in their eyes, a valid tactic, not OP at all, and they'll just say: lelz nab l2p scrub huehue

we can make a 1000 threads about how ridiculously op scales is, it'll never get nerfed or changed so meh, as i said before, they just want us to roll dks, flap our wings at eachother in melee (as ALOT of dks do anyway, thinking they can reflect a sword, huehuehuehue) and spam GDB... Elder Scales Online

I swear it's like they don't really know how ridiculously overpowered dks are. Though I'm pretty sure there is a very strong contingent of dks dedicated to keeping eso all about the master class.

Aimelin

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Aimelin wrote: »

agreed 100%.

But you have to admit, flapping some magical wings that dissapear again out of nowhere is in their eyes, a valid tactic, not OP at all, and they'll just say: lelz nab l2p scrub huehue

we can make a 1000 threads about how ridiculously op scales is, it'll never get nerfed or changed so meh, as i said before, they just want us to roll dks, flap our wings at eachother in melee (as ALOT of dks do anyway, thinking they can reflect a sword, huehuehuehue) and spam GDB... Elder Scales Online

I swear it's like they don't really know how ridiculously overpowered dks are. Though I'm pretty sure there is a very strong contingent of dks dedicated to keeping eso all about the master class.

yea, all the game devs

Emma_Overload

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Can a sorc with an op shield take on 20 players and kill half of them and live? Lolz, no they can't. Can a DK Vamp take on 20 players and kill half of them and live? Happens every single day in cyro... Now make that dk-vamp an emperor and you can increase that to 40 players and live...

Ha ha ha... I totally agree! Where did this bogus meme of the "unkillable PVP Sorc" come from? Every time my Sorc goes to Cyrodiil, she rides her horse for 5 minutes and gets killed in 5 seconds. It's true that my Sorc has pretty good chances in a 1v1 fight, and she usually wins... but how often does happen? Almost never! By the time I've worn down an opponent to near death, a zerg shows up and steamrolls right over me before I can even cast a single Endless Fury

The only times I've ever been amazed by "unkillable" players are when I see those transparent bodies running around with their beating hearts showing... I'm pretty sure those are DKs.

Holycannoli

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

I swear it's like they don't really know how ridiculously overpowered dks are. Though I'm pretty sure there is a very strong contingent of dks dedicated to keeping eso all about the master class.

They know.

pppontus

I am confused. I don't even PVP with my DK, but didn't they just nerf Reflective Scales? Like .. in this very update?

Tankqull

pppontus wrote: »

I am confused. I don't even PVP with my DK, but didn't they just nerf Reflective Scales? Like .. in this very update?

yeah and make in return one of our bypassing abilities blockable...

Francescolg

davedwildebeast wrote: »

....A lot of us are re-rolling Templar rather than NB!

Yes, because the Templars best healing "things" have been nurfed too! The 80% regen buff skill (now down to 20%) + the 30% crit heal on low health targets passive (now down to 10%)...