1.6.2 Sorc Magicka Builds Still Ruined!!! I'm Done! ZoS Read!

Kragorn

daemonios wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey folks, if you're able to tune into ESO Live today, Eric Wrobel does plan on talking a bit about future plans for Sorcerers.

Awesome, thanks for the heads up. Hopefully this will address our concerns, which are mainly about end-game PvE content, not PvP.

I fear a bitter disappointment coming on, pretty much everything ZOS have done in1.6 is entirely to pander to PVP QQ, the damage they've done to the PVE game clearly shows they couldn't give a damn about it.

Lussura

Kragorn wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey folks, if you're able to tune into ESO Live today, Eric Wrobel does plan on talking a bit about future plans for Sorcerers.

Awesome, thanks for the heads up. Hopefully this will address our concerns, which are mainly about end-game PvE content, not PvP.

I fear a bitter disappointment coming on, pretty much everything ZOS have done in1.6 is entirely to pander to PVP QQ, the damage they've done to the PVE game clearly shows they couldn't give a damn about it.

We'll see at the live stream. If they don't have valid answers...I have a strong feeling of riots in the streets.

Snit

In the last ESO live, wasn't the only comment about sorcerers a somewhat more diplomatic phrasing of, "Pffffft.. they're fine?"

I am not erecting the spine of optimism

Ancile

I have always avoided getting onto the forums because I never had much reason to. However, the state of sorc dps atm got me to finally create a forum account. I am happy I am not alone in my concerns for the class.

Lussura

Ancile wrote: »

I have always avoided getting onto the forums because I never had much reason to. However, the state of sorc dps atm got me to finally create a forum account. I am happy I am not alone in my concerns for the class.

Welcome @‌Ancile feel free to vent your rage here.

angelyn

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey folks, if you're able to tune into ESO Live today, Eric Wrobel does plan on talking a bit about future plans for Sorcerers.

I'll be eagerly watching:)

Lussura

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey folks, if you're able to tune into ESO Live today, Eric Wrobel does plan on talking a bit about future plans for Sorcerers.

I seriously hope it more than "a bit". This is a serious problem.

Nightreaver

pppontus wrote: »

I get that, but you have 2 things to consider here:
Thou shall not tank in light armor!!

Can we also assume then that the Thou shall not DPS in Heavy armor! also applies?

pppontus wrote: »

Now I'd like to address something that's come up a lot in different threads, from @Nightreaver , @Fayaburn , @daemonios among others, that the difference between ranged and melee is too significant and/or that there's no real punishment for being melee.
(snip) ...............................
I hope this clarifies why I think that Sorcerers are in a very good spot in 1.6, and why I'm much happier about my Sorc going forward more than any of my other 4 VR14s of all classes.
Peace.

Though I can't speak for the others I can say in regard to myself you clarified nothing.
You claim that melee should be awarded greater DPS due to the greater difficulty it entails which I have already stated I agree with....up to the point where that difficulty has been compensated to allow it match ranged DPS.

If you are claiming that melee DPS should be awarded beyond that due to the risk involved then I am fine with that as well...... as long as anyone wearing Light armor shares the same reward based on the number of pieces worn for increased risk vs. someone wearing Heavy. And that an additional bonus be applied based on number of attribute points assigned to Stamina/Magicka which has higher risk than points assigned to health.

You state that this somehow proves that Sorcerers are in a very good spot in 1.6 but still offer no evidence of it. After reading your post, I have no better understanding of well Sorcerers are doing in relation to other classes than I did before. The only thing you showed was that melee DPS is more difficult to achieve than ranged DPS in most encounters which we already knew but nothing as to how DPS compares at a class level.

You state that you are much happier about your Sorc going forward than any of your other classes.

It is those comparisons that I would most like to see and would go a long ways in giving the rest of us a clearer understanding on how well Sorcerers can expect to fare.

Based on your signature, you have a VR14 in every class and seemed well experienced in each of them. You seem to be in the best position to determine and provide an unbiased opinion as to how classes compare so would really love to see some DPS comparisons done under like conditions.
Each class optimized for best DPS
Each class wearing the same armor type
Each class with the same attribute distribution.

prototypefb

angelyn wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey folks, if you're able to tune into ESO Live today, Eric Wrobel does plan on talking a bit about future plans for Sorcerers.

I'll be eagerly watching:)

sorc class will be removed, and added as new world skill to all other superior classes, with further specialization cc/elements/summoning&necromancer/buff&dispell trees
NB class will follow same suit with dark brotherhood/thieves guild/spectral assasin/trap&poison trees.

Dracane

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey folks, if you're able to tune into ESO Live today, Eric Wrobel does plan on talking a bit about future plans for Sorcerers.

Praise Auri-El

Exstazik

My 2 cents:
1)Crystal Fragments
Tooltip:Chance to make ability instant cast..From 1.3 till 1.6.2 it's still not instant...already too bored to sent video proof with this bug.
2)Daedric Mines all morph should be placeable (target area)
Daedric Minefield-should place invisible mines
3)Mage's Fury:
Mage's Wrath increase activation from 20% to 25%
4)Rune Prison-reduce cast time
Rune Cage-should add snare effect after the effect ends.
5) Expert Mage-change to
Activating an Storm Calling ability grants 1-2 additional Ultimate(6 sec cooldown) and gives Minor Sorcery buff
6)Disintegrate...meh...to low chances.If you use ( Mage's Fury+RNG Disintegrate) it's still the worst finisher.....
COEF from
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/149498/new-dps-calculations#latest

Mage's Fury 0.03888171 0.124985317 (total:0,163867022)
Assassin's Blade 0.201104194
adiant Destruction 0.194526019

This passive should add ++direct damage instead of RNG damage.

Nightreaver

Lussura wrote: »

snipeopsub17_ESO wrote: »

Can we get some videos or raw data comparisons please, I'm not seeing a problem on my Sorcerer.

I smell a troll. Tons of images and videos already out there. Our average dps is 6-8k without pets using a magicka build. With pets "Togglemancer" we run 12-15k dps on a boss fight. Togglemancer on trash...like 6-7k

In all honesty, I would also love to see some unbiased DPS comparisons done on an even playing field between classes.
I can find it much easier to accept 6-8k DPS if that is what other classes are experiencing under the same conditions than to accept 15K DPS if other classes are getting 20K. Not saying they are, just using that as an example.
So far, most of the people I have seen claiming Sorcerers are doing well have stated such with no comparisons made in relation to other classes.

Dracane

Exstazik wrote: »

5) Expert Mage-change to
Activating an Storm Calling ability grants 1-2 additional Ultimate(6 sec cooldown) and gives Minor Sorcery buff

This is a reasonable idea (the minor sorcery buff)

Tankqull

Faulgor wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Sap Essence have been nerfed as well so it's not at all as survivable as it used to be afaik, not tested it yet so this is all hearsay. But even in 1.5 Sap Essence is like a 500pt damage and 400pt heal, when hitting 6 targets, almost nothing unless you can hit 6 targets. A comparison with Surge can not even be made as they are in different universes

Just tested Siphoning Attacks + Sap Essence at Spellscar on PTS, and it's certainly harder than on live right now. However, I think this is mostly due to Light Armor's low armor rating now.

I used to be all in favor of lowering Light Armor resistances, but that was when magicka was still king in DPS. Glass cannons only make sense when it's actually a cannon.
Maybe a change in passives that grants spell power for light armor users just as medium armor grants weapon power would be in order, but I'm not sure about this.

destro staff + evil hunter = super easy going with a NB at spellscar.
pulsar grants nearly allways beeing full at mana and evil hunter procs the same for your stamina complemented with a sap every now and than and its absolutly no problem.
while doing comparable on a sorc is horribly hard compared because of none existant healing. even though you have more armor and resis thx to your toggles etc...

snipeopsub17_ESO

[/quote] I can find it much easier to accept 6-8k DPS if that is what other classes are experiencing under the same conditions than to accept 15K DPS if other classes are getting 20K. Not saying they are, just using that as an example.
So far, most of the people I have seen claiming Sorcerers are doing well have stated such with no comparisons made in relation to other classes.
[/quote]

Thankyou! We need numbers, so far it's all speculative talk and griping. Through my testing with all four characters, my Sorcerer is very strong in comparison to the others and the dps/survivability ratio needs to be factored in when talking about dps.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Jahosefat wrote: »

Is ESO live at 4 pm est today (just to confirm)? I was looking for the time in other threads but hadn't found it posted.

Yep, 4PM EST, and it will also be up in our past broadcasts in Twitch, and later on YouTube for any who can't tune in live.

Flaminir

Snit wrote: »

I am not erecting the spine of optimism

@Snit Best comment of the day! I actually properly laughed like a Khajit on MoonSugar to that one

Nihil

Dracane wrote: »

Exstazik wrote: »

5) Expert Mage-change to
Activating an Storm Calling ability grants 1-2 additional Ultimate(6 sec cooldown) and gives Minor Sorcery buff

This is a reasonable idea (the minor sorcery buff)

in a group setting this won't help at all, all players will have the minor buffs for spell / weapon damage and spell / weapon crit. They are tied to passive buffs for each class, and only obtained in this way.

Lussura

Watching the stream....still no information worth anything. The Ask us Anything is like questions a kinder-garden class would ask.

Tankqull

Lussura wrote: »

Nihil wrote: »

Lussura wrote: »

I think increasing the damage on Velocious Curse is the place to do this. If it's damage where increased by 15-20%. We would see a resurgence of Crystal Fragment builds in PVE. Players casting curse, to get the instant Crystal Fragments, and hard casting Crystal Fragments. Players could use Structured Entropy as a fill damage over time as well. This along with Spell Symmetry. Inner Light, and Ice comet...would make a wonderful PVE build.

Destructive touch has been buffed to be useful as a rotational skill now. It does more damage over time then entropy, so would be a good one to weave in for most mage dps classes now (keep entropy for major sorc buff). I will need to see where velicious curse falls damage wise once I get good magic armor for my sorc (made it originally a duel wield but I like to test builds), but on the template I made it did compariable damage to DoT's which I think is the way to go.

Magdalina wrote: »

DKs have Dragonblood which you imo underrate, it's amazing. Not only it heals you based on how hurt you are, it also buffs your health and stam regeneration, making it worth it even if you're NOT hurt that much.

Just going to comment that the regen from Dragons blood was nerfed in 1.6, with potions giving the same buffs the regens from dragons blood isn't as important anymore, as for the most part can easily be covered by a tri pot ( but could still be usefull if they find a different potions to use) *enters shameless plug*
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/151127/1-6-buffs-and-debuffs-consolidated-lists-thoughts#latest
I have a link to a google doc with all the buffs I found (don't have vampirism) and the sources you can get them from.

The goal however is to have a Sorcerer skill buffed to increase our classes dps. Destructive Touch anyone can use and would lead to further nerfs.

and because of that:
add a dot to dark magic by substituting one of the 3 ccs this would add some "passive" dps while enabling the passive exploitation to work in pve (as every boss is cc imune no additional crit for you sorc currently...) wich then maybe needs to be lowered to 10 instead of 15%

get rid of desintegrate its unreliability is horrible in pve and its randomness creates problems in pvp where you are simpy exploding without chances to react [ assuming life values: 550+crit crystal frag)+(1.5k+crit desintegrate)+ (450+crit curse) +(800+crit mages fury explosion) boom goes the enemy...] instead incorporate the dmg into mages fury base attack increasing its dmg to values around of CS and make MF the sorcs primal attack that way.
in addition substitute that passive with
scholarship: due to the tight collaboration of your guild(sorcerer) and the mages guild all mage guild abilitys are increased by 7/8 (=15)% [excluding meteor for pvp reasons]

by these simple changes sorcs would be lifted easily into regions comparable of all others without overpoweing their dps out put.

Snit

Wrobel just said that Lightning Splash duration will be increased. The two morphs will be six and ten seconds, respectively. That is their solution to increasing sorc sustained DPS without increasing burst. PvE gets buffed without impacting PvP in a significant way.

Next, he said Expert Mage will change. It will now increase spellpower for each class ability slotted on the hotbar. This will scale our nukes, but not our pets.

I think these are both clever buffs. We'll see if they're sufficient, but I like the careful thought process. If the spellpower buff is sufficient, that alone will make our class skills outshine Mage Guild abilities with duplicative effects. Maybe

Nothing for stamina sorcs, though.

And.. for Force Shock, he is clearly unaware that the Force Pulse morph is bugged, and it does not do more damage.

Lussura

So if you watched lived stream....Sorc is still seriously nerfed. They increased duration on Lighting Splash and a passive now gives us spell power based off slotted Sorc abilities...

Which freaking means pets builds still do more damage and we are a zookeeper. I'm seriously just considering quiting. This live stream was complete bs.

Snit

Lussura wrote: »

So if you watched lived stream....Sorc is still seriously nerfed. They increased duration on Lighting Splash and a passive now gives us spell power based off slotted Sorc abilities...

Which freaking means pets builds still do more damage and we are a zookeeper. I'm seriously just considering quiting. This live stream was complete bs.

No. Pets do not scale with spell power.

manny254

Lussura wrote: »

So if you watched lived stream....Sorc is still seriously nerfed. They increased duration on Lighting Splash and a passive now gives us spell power based off slotted Sorc abilities...

Which freaking means pets builds still do more damage and we are a zookeeper. I'm seriously just considering quiting. This live stream was complete bs.

Didn't know that you already tested the changes in the patch that has not been released yet.

Snit

I've started a discussion of the 1.6.3 preview, so we can get away from this "I quit!" thread title

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/151645/sorc-1-6-3-preview-from-livestream?new=1

Aimelin

Who uses lightning splash anyway?? i've never used it since the first month of launch when i found it utterly useless ...

they need to remove the useless abilities that sorcs have right now, lightning splash, encase, rune prison, no one uses that, not even the reactive morph is worth wasting a slot for, stam based ppl just cc break and gg, back in your face casting all those -instant- cast dps abilities, they cry about our wards? lel what wards, they get bursted down so fast its ridiculous

Nihil

Lussura wrote: »

So if you watched lived stream....Sorc is still seriously nerfed. They increased duration on Lighting Splash and a passive now gives us spell power based off slotted Sorc abilities...

Which freaking means pets builds still do more damage and we are a zookeeper. I'm seriously just considering quiting. This live stream was complete bs.

This will make sorcs the best with staves and mage guild... depending on the bonus. We will have to wait to see how it plays out but definitely sounds nice.

Tankqull

Nihil wrote: »

Lussura wrote: »

So if you watched lived stream....Sorc is still seriously nerfed. They increased duration on Lighting Splash and a passive now gives us spell power based off slotted Sorc abilities...

Which freaking means pets builds still do more damage and we are a zookeeper. I'm seriously just considering quiting. This live stream was complete bs.

This will make sorcs the best with staves and mage guild... depending on the bonus. We will have to wait to see how it plays out but definitely sounds nice.

it sounds noce but like allways they gona screw the execution...

pppontus

snipeopsub17_ESO wrote: »

Can we get some videos or raw data comparisons please, I'm not seeing a problem on my Sorcerer.

Watch out.. telling these people they aren't the worst DPS in the world is like .. insulting their mothers, or something. There is absolutely no way of reasoning with them. Just wait, soon they'll tell you that you don't even have a sorcerer, that you're an undercover Nightblade or something.

Nightreaver wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

I get that, but you have 2 things to consider here:
Thou shall not tank in light armor!!

Can we also assume then that the Thou shall not DPS in Heavy armor! also applies?

pppontus wrote: »

Now I'd like to address something that's come up a lot in different threads, from @Nightreaver , @Fayaburn , @daemonios among others, that the difference between ranged and melee is too significant and/or that there's no real punishment for being melee.
(snip) ...............................
I hope this clarifies why I think that Sorcerers are in a very good spot in 1.6, and why I'm much happier about my Sorc going forward more than any of my other 4 VR14s of all classes.
Peace.

Though I can't speak for the others I can say in regard to myself you clarified nothing.
You claim that melee should be awarded greater DPS due to the greater difficulty it entails which I have already stated I agree with....up to the point where that difficulty has been compensated to allow it match ranged DPS.

If you are claiming that melee DPS should be awarded beyond that due to the risk involved then I am fine with that as well...... as long as anyone wearing Light armor shares the same reward based on the number of pieces worn for increased risk vs. someone wearing Heavy. And that an additional bonus be applied based on number of attribute points assigned to Stamina/Magicka which has higher risk than points assigned to health.

You state that this somehow proves that Sorcerers are in a very good spot in 1.6 but still offer no evidence of it. After reading your post, I have no better understanding of well Sorcerers are doing in relation to other classes than I did before. The only thing you showed was that melee DPS is more difficult to achieve than ranged DPS in most encounters which we already knew but nothing as to how DPS compares at a class level.

You state that you are much happier about your Sorc going forward than any of your other classes.

It is those comparisons that I would most like to see and would go a long ways in giving the rest of us a clearer understanding on how well Sorcerers can expect to fare.

Based on your signature, you have a VR14 in every class and seemed well experienced in each of them. You seem to be in the best position to determine and provide an unbiased opinion as to how classes compare so would really love to see some DPS comparisons done under like conditions.
Each class optimized for best DPS
Each class wearing the same armor type
Each class with the same attribute distribution.

I'll get you some proper DPS numbers as soon as I get my characters copied again (EU).

My prediction:

Magicka Melee DK > Stamina Melee NB > Stamina Melee Templar > Stamina Melee DK > Ranged Magicka Sorc > Ranged Magicka Templar/NB/DK > Ranged Stamina Bow (Any Class).

Then again, you don't have to believe me, but I have done SO & AA on the PTS, as well as a large number of dungeons etc. so I believe I have pretty decent knowledge. The fact that I have at least a VR14 of each class.. it helps. I know the ins and outs of every class and spec, and have achieved numbers on my Sorc in 1.5 that make people call me a liar.

I leave it up to you to decide whether you believe me or not, I don't really care either way. I'll just play on my Sorcerer instead.

Nihil

Tankqull wrote: »

Nihil wrote: »

Lussura wrote: »

So if you watched lived stream....Sorc is still seriously nerfed. They increased duration on Lighting Splash and a passive now gives us spell power based off slotted Sorc abilities...

Which freaking means pets builds still do more damage and we are a zookeeper. I'm seriously just considering quiting. This live stream was complete bs.

This will make sorcs the best with staves and mage guild... depending on the bonus. We will have to wait to see how it plays out but definitely sounds nice.

it sounds noce but like allways they gona screw the execution...

it is possible, but till we see when it hits PTS we only have what they said and in theory it sounds good.