New Values x 10 hard to swallow.

Theegoliath

Is anyone else having a difficult time swallowing the new larger value numbers for everything ( skill dmg, health, skill cost, etc..). I for one have a harder time digesting information if the number is xx,xxx vrs xxx. I dont need a larger number to feel good about changes in my character. Thats why rounding numbers was invented. Who cares about the extra .xx

Heres a musical quote I feel totally applies to the new value sytem. "Less is more." I feel smaller numbers are easier to read and mentally do math faster on the fly.

Merlin13KAGL

It's for shock and awe...looks bigger, is effectively the same.

The problem is, they didn't do this across the board.

You didn't get x10 enchantments, you didn't get x10 potions/food buffs.

You definitly didn't get x10 regen's.

I'm not sure why they think someone seeing a .1% increase on the display is going to make them feel better (other than to know the thing is actually working).

The rest of it, they chipped away with the intention of having you build back up via CP's.

Take off the last digit and compare to live, you'll see the upgrades aren't quite what they made them out to be.

New ESO, now 10 times more ESOier than before.

Ahdora

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

New ESO, now 10 times more ESOier than before.

Win.

NotSo

Yeah, can I get an addon that sticks a decimal in there to turn 20,000 into 2,000.0

Sharee

It helps if you just imagine a decimal point before the last number

Aeratus

NotSo wrote: »

Yeah, can I get an addon that sticks a decimal in there to turn 20,000 into 2,000.0

Or a game setting that simply hides the last digit.

Theegoliath

Just leave well enough alone. If its not broke, dont fix it..... uh.... yeah... wont go there...

firstdecan

<sarcasm>Because let's face it, a 00.1% bonus on a four digit number is much more significant than a 00.1% bonus on a three digit number. <sarcasm/>

They did it so that the micro bonuses would be more apparent (this is in another discussion somewhere I don't feel like looking for). Bonus of 1% or less are not perceptible on smaller numbers, so they just made the numbers bigger. Plus, this is an MA rated game, we should all be able to do this kind of math in our heads.

zward887_ESO

I think I would have preferred a checkbox for 'advanced interface' or something in the gameplay settings instead to just show the decimal values. Alternatively, having the actual value show up in the tooltip or something.

This would have been best of both worlds. min/maxers see the progress and everyone else can blissfully ignore it without digit spam cluttering the UI.

Jennifur_Vultee

Zenimax can you please drop this new number bloat or give us a way to toggle it off and have the old style numbers or at least make the numbers like 2473.8. I get why you did it but its not a good change in my opinion. It wasn't broke before...please don't "fix" it.

s7732425ub17_ESO

Yup, number bloat is an issue. It will take some time to get used to the new numbers. Right now you have nothing to compare them to since the softcaps are gone. Before, you knew that 2500 magica was pretty much maxing it out, but now, what does having 23000 mean? We don't know yet.

Also, the large numbers are ugly. I was worried about them months ago, and now that they are here, I don't like them.

Theegoliath

firstdecan wrote: »

<sarcasm>Because let's face it, a 00.1% bonus on a four digit number is much more significant than a 00.1% bonus on a three digit number. <sarcasm/>

They did it so that the micro bonuses would be more apparent (this is in another discussion somewhere I don't feel like looking for). Bonus of 1% or less are not perceptible on smaller numbers, so they just made the numbers bigger. Plus, this is an MA rated game, we should all be able to do this kind of math in our heads.

I have understood why they did it, even back when Paul Sage talked about it in depth two months ago and we could listen to the audio on youtube. I felt, and still feel its unnecessary to see less then a percentage.

Lord_Kreegan

Okay, let me give a different perspective...

Integer math on computers is SIGNIFICANTLY faster than floating point math. Integer number storage on computers is SIGNIFICANTLY more efficient (less memory required) than floating point storage. Not going to give a dissertation on this; find a computer geek to explain it to you if you're really interested.

Although they still will be doing floating point calculations (using what are known in the lingo as "casts"), a large amount of their calculations (simple addition, subtraction, multiplication, and comparisons, for example) will be pure integer calculations. Given their problems with real time activities (in PvP especially), I'm guessing they decided to convert much of their attribute system to integers.

Beyond that, I presume it's all about cosmetics.

firstdecan

theegoliathb14_ESO wrote: »

firstdecan wrote: »

<sarcasm>Because let's face it, a 00.1% bonus on a four digit number is much more significant than a 00.1% bonus on a three digit number. <sarcasm/>

They did it so that the micro bonuses would be more apparent (this is in another discussion somewhere I don't feel like looking for). Bonus of 1% or less are not perceptible on smaller numbers, so they just made the numbers bigger. Plus, this is an MA rated game, we should all be able to do this kind of math in our heads.

I have understood why they did it, even back when Paul Sage talked about it in depth two months ago and we could listen to the audio on youtube. I felt, and still feel its unnecessary to see less then a percentage.

I agree with you, a paltry amount is a paltry amount regardless of the order of magnitude to which it is scaled. It's just something new and different with version 2.0 of the game. We'll all be better at math for playing the game.

KenjiJU

Lord_Kreegan wrote: »

Okay, let me give a different perspective...

Integer math on computers is SIGNIFICANTLY faster than floating point math. Integer number storage on computers is SIGNIFICANTLY more efficient (less memory required) than floating point storage. Not going to give a dissertation on this; find a computer geek to explain it to you if you're really interested.

Although they still will be doing floating point calculations (using what are known in the lingo as "casts"), a large amount of their calculations (simple addition, subtraction, multiplication, and comparisons, for example) will be pure integer calculations. Given their problems with real time activities (in PvP especially), I'm guessing they decided to convert much of their attribute system to integers.

Beyond that, I presume it's all about cosmetics.

It doesn't really matter though, as you can still control what the end user sees on his screen, no? Can choose to hide or show digits pretty easily.

On that same token, it might be possible to get an addon to hide the extra 'cents' values just as well, which is something I would use.

Number bloat.. making arcade scores feel 'cool' and fudging up readability on RPGs. Really don't need or want it.

Theegoliath

Lord_Kreegan wrote: »

Okay, let me give a different perspective...

Integer math on computers is SIGNIFICANTLY faster than floating point math. Integer number storage on computers is SIGNIFICANTLY more efficient (less memory required) than floating point storage. Not going to give a dissertation on this; find a computer geek to explain it to you if you're really interested.

Although they still will be doing floating point calculations (using what are known in the lingo as "casts"), a large amount of their calculations (simple addition, subtraction, multiplication, and comparisons, for example) will be pure integer calculations. Given their problems with real time activities (in PvP especially), I'm guessing they decided to convert much of their attribute system to integers.

Beyond that, I presume it's all about cosmetics.

Thats a lot of big words that only a small percentage of people will actually understand. The change as explained to us over the past 2 months of being "transparent", was purely cometic. At least they could add a decimal point for us or something. Having stats in the game read xx,xxx makes it dificult on the eyes.

Math and fractions is all about reducing to the lowest common denominator right, right. They didnt reduce, they multiplied : /

Bouvin

My stats with the same gear definitely did not factor by 10x. Although damage did.

Everything, same gear and points allocations, factored about 5x. Meaning in reality I have about 1/2 the stats (compared to new damage numbers).

Bouvin

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

Yup, number bloat is an issue. It will take some time to get used to the new numbers. Right now you have nothing to compare them to since the softcaps are gone. Before, you knew that 2500 magica was pretty much maxing it out, but now, what does having 23000 mean? We don't know yet.

Also, the large numbers are ugly. I was worried about them months ago, and now that they are here, I don't like them.

Neither do I.

After testing on PTS 1.6, not sure if I even want to continue playing.

Armitas

They said they did it because all the champion system upgrades didn't feel "powerful" because they were numerically small. I can agree with that, getting 1 from something seems kinda weak. However over inflating everything will also makes numbers seem meaningless. It works both ways.

3000...4000 is that a lot? I have no idea, everything is huge now. There is no reference point. We have entered the land of giant numbers... because we can.

ESO...EXTREME EDITION!

Tavore1138

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

It's for shock and awe...looks bigger, is effectively the same.

The problem is, they didn't do this across the board.

You didn't get x10 enchantments, you didn't get x10 potions/food buffs.

You definitly didn't get x10 regen's.

I'm not sure why they think someone seeing a .1% increase on the display is going to make them feel better (other than to know the thing is actually working).

The rest of it, they chipped away with the intention of having you build back up via CP's.

Take off the last digit and compare to live, you'll see the upgrades aren't quite what they made them out to be.

New ESO, now 10 times more ESOier than before.

Agreed - a lot of these numbers are actually just a bit of a con trick if you take the time to compare them like for like as I am sure some will be doing.

Instead of giving us new progressions and content they have taken away existing power from us and now expect us to earn it back again... a little cheap really... perhaps a depressing sign of things to come.

Theegoliath

Armitas wrote: »

We have entered the land of giant numbers, because we can.

Which I feel might seem waranted by some, but is not necessary.

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Instead of giving us new progressions and content they have taken away existing power from us and now expect us to earn it back again...

Exactly. We have to earn it back through CP : /

Suru

This is PTS and they want feedback. It we push for removal of these stupidly high numbers, maybe it can happen #MiraclesDoHappen#lol

Theegoliath

We are giving feedback : )

MrGhosty

I could have done without the smokescreen effect these new numbers are creating. If they had simply multiplied everything that would be one thing, but they've also taken this change to modify (it seems) all of the values so that you feel like you're just as strong until you start to dig into and realize that numbers are missing.

I missed the bit where they said they were going to drop health rates in order to make getting those SAME health points back via the new mechanic "more engaging". It seems like for every positive change this update is bringing, we're getting two more unwanted or negative changes included.

Joejudas

Bouvin wrote: »

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

Yup, number bloat is an issue. It will take some time to get used to the new numbers. Right now you have nothing to compare them to since the softcaps are gone. Before, you knew that 2500 magica was pretty much maxing it out, but now, what does having 23000 mean? We don't know yet.

Also, the large numbers are ugly. I was worried about them months ago, and now that they are here, I don't like them.

Neither do I.

After testing on PTS 1.6, not sure if I even want to continue playing.

im with the you on this. Pushing magic skill into the stam bar made it really really difficult to run an effective dps rotation as a DW. its going to take a ton of tinkering...and i honestly dont even know if in the end it will be worth it since we have to get like 500 cp points to make our VR14 stats comparable to pre 1.6

s7732425ub17_ESO

Lord_Kreegan wrote: »

Okay, let me give a different perspective...

Integer math on computers is SIGNIFICANTLY faster than floating point math. Integer number storage on computers is SIGNIFICANTLY more efficient (less memory required) than floating point storage. Not going to give a dissertation on this; find a computer geek to explain it to you if you're really interested.

Although they still will be doing floating point calculations (using what are known in the lingo as "casts"), a large amount of their calculations (simple addition, subtraction, multiplication, and comparisons, for example) will be pure integer calculations. Given their problems with real time activities (in PvP especially), I'm guessing they decided to convert much of their attribute system to integers.

Beyond that, I presume it's all about cosmetics.

This is a lot of words but is completely wrong. Every calculation will be done as floating point. The final value will be rounded to the closest integer and shown on your screen.

ZOS_TristanK

We appreciate all of your feedback, folks! So that we can keep 1.6 specific feedback organized, we're moving this thread to the PTS section. Thanks for your understanding.

Kartalin

It's more like six to seven times on the health, stam, and magicka. I know they wanted to make ability costs, potions, food, etc more granular but it does seem silly from a player standpoint.

I think we'll be okay with it, eventually. It's like going from the US system of measures to metric. After a while you get accustomed to it and it's no big deal. We just have to get through the transition.

danno8

People are good at counting the number of objects by a glance up until around 5 objects. At that point many begin to need to break up the numbers into smaller groups or just count them manually.

I think it is a similar effect with the bigger numbers. It's just harder to read them at a glance when we start getting into the 5+ digit range.

Robbmrp

There's no reason to inflate existing numbers. Just leave them as they are. We don't need Bosses with 10 Million HP. Who cares if it's a 2000 hit vs a 20,000 hit. Leave it as it is please....

TheBucket

I dont like it. Just my personal preference though.