Hirelings in update 6....The Temper Tantrum

ashlee17

I am unhappy about the changes to crafting.

I think that Increasing gold tempers though refining while reducing hireling effectiveness will be a mistake.

The prices of ledgendary tempers has remained pretty stable since launch.

Access to gold tempers though hirelings is restricted by the amount of chars per account as well as the timers. Characters had to be somewhat leveled with skill points to acess them.

And instead of having an incentive to log in 12 hourly for hireling mats, now instead we will just have to run around farming/grinding or doing the same crafting writs over and over.... /boring anyone?

Gaining gold tempers through refinery , is not restricted. You can farm and refine as many raw mats as you like. At any character level you like. Bots can too. Lvl 3 chars can harvest the same as vr14's. This new system may cause massive imbalances as tempers flood the market.

This could have major ramifications in the ESO economy.

Bottom line- this move is looking like a mistake that could easily be exploited.

Hireling were a good way to reward dedicated players for leveling up crafting. If they are going to reduce the incentive because of the boost to refining raw materials please compensate dedicated crafters.

firstdecan

Rosveen wrote: »

Iago wrote: »

Jofish wrote: »

Okay, okay.. enuff of this... ZOS has just taken hundreds of hours of time from hundreds of folks and made it useless... just so they can build a kindergarten and make some dough... This used to be a game but apparently players don't want a game, they want kindergarten... like nerfing doshia, prime example... beating up Balreth used to be satisfying; but gotta have them bucks, y'know... We'll see what happens, and how absolutely bored they can make me... Peace...

At launch Doshia was way OP it is a level 9 quest (I think it was it's been a long time) and I couldn't kill her with my nightblade until I was level 25 or so, but then instead of evening her out they nerfed her into the ground and I killed her with a level 9 DK very quickly

That's just crazy. I killed her back then at level 11, what were you doing with that nightblade?

In fairness, nightblades don't have much in the way of AoE, especially at low level. Also, in one of the alliances Doshia is in a spot where her balls spawn practically on top of her. THAT is what made her hard.

firstdecan

GreyBrow wrote: »

KrayzieBone_88 wrote: »

"Significantly decreased the chance to receive gold boosters, gold aspect runes and purple provisioning ingredients from hireling mails."

Thank god I didn't spend countless hours leveling up alts for the sole purpose of having a bunch of hirelings receiving purples/golds...oh wait I did do that....

Use your heads people. Nerf to hireling gold mats...

Hmmm... can anyone else think of a reason to the nerf to drop rates?

Maybe the CASH SHOP?

I'd bet all my gold that you're going to be able to buy gold mats for crowns.

I'd also be willing to bet that eventually you'll be able to buy the undaunted sets for crowns.

Also, I'd be willing to bet that you'll be able to buy VR12 Warlock rings for crowns.

That is why the drop rates got nerfed.

Oh good. That means I can stop wasting time farming things, and just focus on playing the game. P2WFTW.

Alphashado

jp_antillb16_ESO wrote: »

While I know some people will obviously disagree I don't have a problem with this change. I understand why those who have masses of hirelings are upset by it but ultimately it was reducing the value of the gold upgrades items so much as to be near negligible which makes the in game economy somewhat stale and I'm pretty sure the supply is vastly outstripping the demand so it will only get worse. Giving everyone an easy route to passive income of gold items was always a bad idea they really should of dealt with it 6 months ago.

Um, no. They were still expensive and now they are going to be extremely expensive. People are going to endlessly complain about how expensive they are. People are going to endlessly complain about how expensive stacks of unrefined materials are.

The only thing this is going to do is drop supply and raise demand of not only gold tempers, but also unrefined materials. Gold tempers are going to double if not triple in price, and stacks of unrefined materials are going to skyrocket. Unless we get invaded by gold farmers and bots again.

UrQuan

MissBizz wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

The reason why I stopped doing writs is because the ones I wanted to do were being placed next to a hive of wasps. Has that changed?

Craglorn Enchanter's Survey III? My VR5 can collect that one by himself, but it's always a challenge...

@OrangeTheCat‌ and @UrQuan‌ Go give the patch notes novel a read. Im going to bed right now, but I'm sure you will be happy when you see a note on slightly moving monsters and crafting survey locations.

Hmm, I'll be downloading the PTS update while I'm at work today - I'll have to check out how this affects that survey!

UrQuan

clocksstoppe wrote: »

And no, if you happen to have maxed out a craft but never go scouting for resources then you don't count as a crafter, you are still a hireling leecher.

Well that makes absolutely zero sense. So if I have a craft maxed out and I use that craft to, you know, craft things for myself and other people I don't count as a crafter unless I'm gathering the mats myself? OK. I guess in real life you don't count as a smith unless you're out in a mine mining ore. Wait, wouldn't that make you a miner?

Islyn

clocksstoppe wrote: »

The reason hirelings were nerfed is that they don't want people who have nothing to do with crafting to get legendary tempers for free.

And no, if you happen to have maxed out a craft but never go scouting for resources then you don't count as a crafter, you are still a hireling leecher.

LOL! (clicking lol was not sufficient!)

AlnilamE

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

The reason why I stopped doing writs is because the ones I wanted to do were being placed next to a hive of wasps. Has that changed?

Yes.

ashlee17

KrayzieBone_88 wrote: »

There was nothing unfair or exploitable in the previous system. You needed to invest a lot of gold and time up front to get those alts leveled for max hirelings. You invested that gold/time (my god think of the expense from enchanting leveling up!!!) with the expectation that you would slowly get paid back your investment over time and long-term hopefully make a profit. That was very reasonable. What isn't reasonable is pulling the reward after everyone already invested the gold/time....

Lvling up crafts cost a lot in time and gold. Most crafters i know often donate their time and mats making gear for others, myself included.

It's can take over an hour to tailor craft just one full set of gear for another player.

Hireling mats have allowed me to make gear for others, without losing money or having to charge exorbitant fees.

Hirelings help keep crafting rewarding.

If I can get more tempers from raw mats, why not just run around farming raw mats on a lvl 3 char?

Then I can just sell them to someone else to refine at a inflated price.

Why bother crafting at all?

AlnilamE

So between:

- Decreased chance of gold mats from hirelings
- Increased chance of getting gold mats from refining
- Chance of getting gold mats from writs

I'm good with this change.

I do the equipment crafting writs when I have mats. I make sure to always do the consumable crafting writs. They give you good stuff.

AlnilamE

Iago wrote: »

I have my Black Smith maxed out and this is what I received after refining 1,000 voistone ore

858 Voidstone Ingots

3 Almandine

2 Amythest

2 Bloodstones

1 Chrysolyte

3 Citirine

1 Diamond

16 Dwarven Oil

3 Emerald

2 Garnet

7 Grain Solvents

14 Honing Stones

3 Jade

2 Quartz

1 Ruby

1 Sapphire

2 Sardonyx

1 Temp Alloy

1 Turquoise



If they nerfed my one hireling then I may as well re-spec and just buy all my *** from other players.

Was this on live or on the PTS? If you are on NA and you still have the ore in your inventory on the PTS, would you mind refining it there too to see what the difference is?

pmn100b16_ESO

Does this change mean I might actually get a chance of receiving a Kuta? Because I haven't had a single one from my max level enchanter in the past 3 months. Used to get them almost daily within the first ~6 months of the game.

Iago

AlnilamE wrote: »

Iago wrote: »

I have my Black Smith maxed out and this is what I received after refining 1,000 voistone ore

858 Voidstone Ingots

3 Almandine

2 Amythest

2 Bloodstones

1 Chrysolyte

3 Citirine

1 Diamond

16 Dwarven Oil

3 Emerald

2 Garnet

7 Grain Solvents

14 Honing Stones

3 Jade

2 Quartz

1 Ruby

1 Sapphire

2 Sardonyx

1 Temp Alloy

1 Turquoise



If they nerfed my one hireling then I may as well re-spec and just buy all my *** from other players.

Was this on live or on the PTS? If you are on NA and you still have the ore in your inventory on the PTS, would you mind refining it there too to see what the difference is?

This was live just a few days ago

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

oren74 wrote: »

they want you to play the game, instead of just logging in 7 alts to get mail. Go figure.

So leveling a character in order to unlock the hirelings able to do this isn't playing the game?

Okay.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

Weberda wrote: »

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

The reason why I stopped doing writs is because the ones I wanted to do were being placed next to a hive of wasps. Has that changed?

They probably added more.

Equally undoable solo no doubt.

Soulshine

I would say people have rather short memories. There was quite a lot of discussion around increasing the rng percentage for getting gold mats refining during the time that we were being botted into Oblivion (no pun intended) at the beginning of the game. Mats were hard to find, let alone get anything out of them.

When the bot fest died down, this issue was never addressed again as people seemd all too happy just to get access to mats in general. But the issue, which as said then to be looked into, never was - until this update. Long overdue as I should not seriously have to run around collecting 500 cloths for a lousy 2 dreug wax.

For me, even a wee bit more increase in that is far better than waiting it out on a hireling. Personally, the ones I have did not provide much benefit, even maxed out as they are. Anything that will increase the chance for me to get the gold items from mats themselves is something I am all for.

Beware bots in the live....

Wifeaggro13

KrayzieBone_88 wrote: »

"Significantly decreased the chance to receive gold boosters, gold aspect runes and purple provisioning ingredients from hireling mails."

Thank god I didn't spend countless hours leveling up alts for the sole purpose of having a bunch of hirelings receiving purples/golds...oh wait I did do that....

Get ready for the implementation of crafting rares in VR group content. But that sucks, ive always felt there needed to be more avenues of getting rare materials other then just refining, hirelings or breaking down an item. Refining and breaking down yeild extremely high returns while hirelings are lottery based. in all honesty it completely devalues not only the actual PVE content but the market being flooded there is no difference between rares you deconstruct a lvl 1 purple and get a rare that will work on a VR 14.

Ashtaris

I already dislike writs because they usually expend far more in mats and time than the rewards you get in return. Now they are nerfing the hirelings to the ground. One of the perks we had when leveling our crafters to the Master level. Really stupid ZOS, thanks for nothing. I guess now I'll have considerably more skill points that I won't bother wasting on my hirelings, that's for sure.

One thing I don't understand is how this change is going to work for Enchanters? When you create Glyphs, you don't get anything in return like when creating armor, such as tanins and alloys. The only way we have is to go out in the open world and find runes. I don't know about the rest of you, but most of my Kuta's came from hirelings, and NOT finding them in the open world from Aspect runes.

Rook_Master

The hireling system had value as an alternate progression system for finding gold tempers. Many people chose that, as an attractive alternative to running around farming nodes all day, because we saw the value in the up-front time investment it took to level up different crafts on multiple characters, and find leveling up crafting to be much more enjoyable than farming nodes all day.

I only made it to 2/3 on every character and 3/3 on my main. What does ZOS have to say to people that got 3/3 hirelings on every single alt. "Sorry, this entire system you've been using for the past year was actually an exploit."?

Psychobunni

DeLindsay wrote: »

Have you played since 5-day early access and spent the time/gold to get all 8 Characters to 3/3 Hirelings for all Professions like I did, and MANY others did? As I said I saw this coming so I'm not upset by it. Does that mean I'm saying "neener-neener too bad for you"? I'll leave that up to you to decide.

Yes actually, I have been here since early access. Did I spend the time/gold to get 8 toons up there? No. I have 1-enchanter, 1-woodworker, 1 blacksmith....you follow? I'm not super greedy, or a hoarder or out to make tons of gold off people with less time than me.....simply to provide for my own characters. In fact, I wasn't even going to do enchanting at all because my husband already could and the cost/time of leveling didn't seem that valuable to me.....but after spending months playing and finding a whole 3 kuta's in the wilds because a crap RNG system....I leveled it for that one hireling.

If ZOS wants to prevent players from having 8 crafters mailing them Kuta or any other gold item, then they should limit the hirelings by account or one hireling per toon.

But that isn't what this is about, its about forcing players into boring timesinks (farming) and complete wastes of time/resources for maxed crafters (writs)...which again, not every player has time for. But you don't care because you got yours, right

Robocles

oren74 wrote: »

KrayzieBone_88 wrote: »

oren74 wrote: »

Psychobunni wrote: »

oren74 wrote: »

they want you to play the game, instead of just logging in 7 alts to get mail. Go figure.

You know I pointed out the BS it the patch notes thread. Some people have jobs, a real life outside playing ESO all day. I'll use my husband as an example he works 12 hour shifts, with an hour commute each way. So on work days, he gets an hour, two if he is lucky, tops. He spends the first couple minutes logging all those he receives mail from, and then dives into play with whatever he can do in that limited time.

What this change does is effectively prevents him from playing aside from doing writs.

So, think outside your own little box before stating they want people to play the game.

Everyone should send feedback >>in game<< that this is a horrible change.

And you don't have enough time to PvP, so you should get AP anyway?

Oh and you don't get to do undaunted dailies, so you should get those anyway?

Fulltime worker, Dad of two...I still find enough time to do all 6 of my writs 2 or 3 times a week. Takes 20 minutes tops. You're either a crafter, or you're not.

Nobody is asking for something for free and writs/hirelings are not mutually exclusive. The point is that people who have multiple hireling alts had to invest a substantial amount of gold/time to level all these skills through lots of crafting/deconstruction. The entire point of investing all that was to get good refining materials. You take that away and you are left with a paltry gain in basic mats.... golds were the whole point because everything else is so cheap in stores.

I also do all the Writs every day to get survey reports, but hirelings and crafting writs are two completely different subjects and are not mutually exclusive. If it was indeed ZOS goal to incentive Writs...why not just incentive then more? Why nerf something else to hope that indirectly incentives writs. I feel the only motivation was to effectively "nerf" long time players out of gold/mats bc they were getting too many relative to new players....

sorry, I disagree, I see crafting mule alts as an exploit.

Have you ever played an mmo? Crafting alts are very common.

I love how you no longer have a response, so it's just an exploit.

Bouvin

Alphashado wrote: »

This is just going to drive the value of unrefined materials through the roof.

And Tannis Tempers.

It already costs ~$20-25k to upgrade a piece from Purple to Gold. Can't imagine what it'll cost after 1.6 goes live.

AlexDougherty

KrayzieBone_88 wrote: »

"Significantly decreased the chance to receive gold boosters, gold aspect runes and purple provisioning ingredients from hireling mails."

Thank god I didn't spend countless hours leveling up alts for the sole purpose of having a bunch of hirelings receiving purples/golds...oh wait I did do that....

have only used the gold tempers twice, once on blacksmithing and once on Clothing, so most of mine are still there, I can wait to rebuild them, I am patient.

Telel

One thing people here are forgetting about is that we'll soon see an influx of new players once the game does away with subscription fees.

Can you imagine the econonmy after a few months of non paying hireling farmers doing nothhing but logging in once a day to get more gold mats?

No offense to those who are 'insulted' by this change but I honestly much prefer having to work to get the good stuff and often go on harvesting runs, and doing something besides logging on and off mules every few hours.

It's not like it's difficult to get raw materials anyways. Just a few minutes out of the day can net you quite the haul if you pay attention when you're exploring.

AlexDougherty

Telel wrote: »

One thing people here are forgetting about is that we'll soon see an influx of new players once the game does away with subscription fees.

Can you imagine the econonmy after a few months of non paying hireling farmers doing nothhing but logging in once a day to get more gold mats?

No offense to those who are 'insulted' by this change but I honestly much prefer having to work to get the good stuff and often go on harvesting runs, and doing something besides logging on and off mules every few hours.

It's not like it's difficult to get raw materials anyways. Just a few minutes out of the day can net you quite the haul if you pay attention when you're exploring.

Yeah, maybe they will have an option to leave it as it is for those of us who pay subs.

I doubt it, but I can still hope for a while yet.

Bouvin

Telel wrote: »

One thing people here are forgetting about is that we'll soon see an influx of new players once the game does away with subscription fees.

Can you imagine the econonmy after a few months of non paying hireling farmers doing nothhing but logging in once a day to get more gold mats?

No offense to those who are 'insulted' by this change but I honestly much prefer having to work to get the good stuff and often go on harvesting runs, and doing something besides logging on and off mules every few hours.

It's not like it's difficult to get raw materials anyways. Just a few minutes out of the day can net you quite the haul if you pay attention when you're exploring.

F2P problems.

This is just one of the things that happens when you take your game F2P.

Telel

Good thing the game isn't doing that then.

AlnilamE

Psychobunni wrote: »

But that isn't what this is about, its about forcing players into boring timesinks (farming) and complete wastes of time/resources for maxed crafters (writs)...which again, not every player has time for. But you don't care because you got yours, right

If you get a gold improver from refining a stack of mats you need for the writ and then getting one as a reward for the writ, that's not really a waste of time/resources.

But it really is your choice. Hirelings will still bring gold improvers, just not as many as they do now. If you don't want to use the other means to obtain the mats, nothing stops you from just playing the game and using the gold you accumulate from questing to buy them from other players.

The limitation is in your mind.

Disclaimer: I am incapable of passing a node without trying to harvest it. Thank god there are no nodes in Trials...

amasuriel

jp_antillb16_ESO wrote: »

While I know some people will obviously disagree I don't have a problem with this change. I understand why those who have masses of hirelings are upset by it but ultimately it was reducing the value of the gold upgrades items so much as to be near negligible which makes the in game economy somewhat stale and I'm pretty sure the supply is vastly outstripping the demand so it will only get worse. Giving everyone an easy route to passive income of gold items was always a bad idea they really should of dealt with it 6 months ago.

I don't agree this will stimulate the economy. The different for Legendary vs Epic for everything except a handful of enchants (so all armor and weapons and most enchants) is negligible. If Upgrading your sword to Legendary took 250k instead of 20k most people just wont bother. As it is the market for legendary mats is soft because almost nobody bothers to upgrade to a full set.

Dave2836

Vusile wrote: »

Don't worry. There will be an Item Finder card in the Crown store for only 500 crowns, or $5. It will raise the chance of getting gold booster in mail to pre-patch values.

I sure would hope so, then i would know what to do with my crowns every month. I understand the frustration a lot of you are feeling. I to have undertaken large projects, devoted months if labor and ingenuity, only to have the project change direction or shut down before completion. I'm willing to let go of real life mindset known as min/max theorycrafting to "just go with the flow" darwinism. I have more fun that way.

On the flip side with this game being buy to play, I can certainly see the possible abuse. Imagine being able to have gotten the game on sale for $20 or less, creating the account with no sub required, max the hirelings on all of them, and literally controlling the market in the game. If any of you have experience in fraud deterrance or theft prevention, I'm sure you can think of several ways the system can be severely abused. I'm glad they didn't take away the hirelings

Yeah its horrible that the work we all put in will be severly impacted, but the potential risk to the ingame market exceeds the needs of our currently small community.