Hirelings in update 6....The Temper Tantrum

badmojo0777b14_ESO

Alphashado wrote: »

This is just going to drive the value of unrefined materials through the roof.

GOOD! as it stands they aren't worth anything, and they should be

badmojo0777b14_ESO

Weberda wrote: »

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

The reason why I stopped doing writs is because the ones I wanted to do were being placed next to a hive of wasps. Has that changed?

They probably added more.

1 nest of wasps is keeping you from getting this done? youre doing something wrong. you're not max level? have no friends ? cant put an AOE and a self heal on your action bar? whats the problem here? seriously? cuz this kind of complaining is why we cant have nice things. seriously, im not trolling you, im trying to help you understand that you are doing something wrong

Slurg

Ahdora wrote: »

Yeah, I don't get the reasoning behind this one. I realize they want to give people incentive to do the writs, but why not just boost the return on those? Hirelings didn't give too many in the first place, at all.

I suspect this is going to be one that is changed after a bevy of negative feedback.

Actually thinking about it some more, this is probably a move to give an advantage to new and returning players who are not maxed out on crafting and have more incentive to do the writs. They wouldn't want those of us who have been here a long time building up hirelings to have any kind of advantage over the new players. .

Sure we can do the writs too. But every decision being made now will be about how they can get more new players in the game spending money in the cash shop. They're probably going to want to eliminate any advantage legacy players currently have to narrow the gap and keep the new players spending.

Good news is, if the new players don't like those Craglorn wasps on top of the survey site, they'll get moved.

daemonios

Gold improvement mats in crown store in 3... 2... 1...

reften

Psychobunni wrote: »

oren74 wrote: »

they want you to play the game, instead of just logging in 7 alts to get mail. Go figure.

You know I pointed out the BS it the patch notes thread. Some people have jobs, a real life outside playing ESO all day. I'll use my husband as an example he works 12 hour shifts, with an hour commute each way. So on work days, he gets an hour, two if he is lucky, tops. He spends the first couple minutes logging all those he receives mail from, and then dives into play with whatever he can do in that limited time.

What this change does is effectively prevents him from playing aside from doing writs.

So, think outside your own little box before stating they want people to play the game.

Everyone should send feedback >>in game<< that this is a horrible change.

And you don't have enough time to PvP, so you should get AP anyway?

Oh and you don't get to do undaunted dailies, so you should get those anyway?

Fulltime worker, Dad of two...I still find enough time to do all 6 of my writs 2 or 3 times a week. Takes 20 minutes tops. You're either a crafter, or you're not.

KrayzieBone_88

oren74 wrote: »

Psychobunni wrote: »

oren74 wrote: »

they want you to play the game, instead of just logging in 7 alts to get mail. Go figure.

You know I pointed out the BS it the patch notes thread. Some people have jobs, a real life outside playing ESO all day. I'll use my husband as an example he works 12 hour shifts, with an hour commute each way. So on work days, he gets an hour, two if he is lucky, tops. He spends the first couple minutes logging all those he receives mail from, and then dives into play with whatever he can do in that limited time.

What this change does is effectively prevents him from playing aside from doing writs.

So, think outside your own little box before stating they want people to play the game.

Everyone should send feedback >>in game<< that this is a horrible change.

And you don't have enough time to PvP, so you should get AP anyway?

Oh and you don't get to do undaunted dailies, so you should get those anyway?

Fulltime worker, Dad of two...I still find enough time to do all 6 of my writs 2 or 3 times a week. Takes 20 minutes tops. You're either a crafter, or you're not.

Nobody is asking for something for free and writs/hirelings are not mutually exclusive. The point is that people who have multiple hireling alts had to invest a substantial amount of gold/time to level all these skills through lots of crafting/deconstruction. The entire point of investing all that was to get good refining materials. You take that away and you are left with a paltry gain in basic mats.... golds were the whole point because everything else is so cheap in stores.

I also do all the Writs every day to get survey reports, but hirelings and crafting writs are two completely different subjects and are not mutually exclusive. If it was indeed ZOS goal to incentive Writs...why not just incentive then more? Why nerf something else to hope that indirectly incentives writs. I feel the only motivation was to effectively "nerf" long time players out of gold/mats bc they were getting too many relative to new players....

reften

KrayzieBone_88 wrote: »

oren74 wrote: »

Psychobunni wrote: »

oren74 wrote: »

they want you to play the game, instead of just logging in 7 alts to get mail. Go figure.

You know I pointed out the BS it the patch notes thread. Some people have jobs, a real life outside playing ESO all day. I'll use my husband as an example he works 12 hour shifts, with an hour commute each way. So on work days, he gets an hour, two if he is lucky, tops. He spends the first couple minutes logging all those he receives mail from, and then dives into play with whatever he can do in that limited time.

What this change does is effectively prevents him from playing aside from doing writs.

So, think outside your own little box before stating they want people to play the game.

Everyone should send feedback >>in game<< that this is a horrible change.

And you don't have enough time to PvP, so you should get AP anyway?

Oh and you don't get to do undaunted dailies, so you should get those anyway?

Fulltime worker, Dad of two...I still find enough time to do all 6 of my writs 2 or 3 times a week. Takes 20 minutes tops. You're either a crafter, or you're not.

Nobody is asking for something for free and writs/hirelings are not mutually exclusive. The point is that people who have multiple hireling alts had to invest a substantial amount of gold/time to level all these skills through lots of crafting/deconstruction. The entire point of investing all that was to get good refining materials. You take that away and you are left with a paltry gain in basic mats.... golds were the whole point because everything else is so cheap in stores.

I also do all the Writs every day to get survey reports, but hirelings and crafting writs are two completely different subjects and are not mutually exclusive. If it was indeed ZOS goal to incentive Writs...why not just incentive then more? Why nerf something else to hope that indirectly incentives writs. I feel the only motivation was to effectively "nerf" long time players out of gold/mats bc they were getting too many relative to new players....

sorry, I disagree, I see crafting mule alts as an exploit.

clocksstoppe

I doubt the price of raw mats will rise that much. OP conveniently omitted mentioning that the rate at which you get legendary tempers from raw mats has been increased. From my experience they were already too common (because nobody buys them unless you sell at heavy underprice)

KrayzieBone_88

clocksstoppe wrote: »

I doubt the price of raw mats will rise that much. OP conveniently omitted mentioning that the rate at which you get legendary tempers from raw mats has been increased. From my experience they were already too common (because nobody buys them unless you sell at heavy underprice)

I guess we will find out in testing with the raw mat refining, but I have been more pointedly discussing enchanting (and to a similar extent provisioning). There are no raw materials for you to refine to get gold kuta...we would now have to farm all kuta (which has a ridiculously low drop rate)...unless it starts popping up in Writ rewards. You know if the patch notes mentioned that? I can't recall

Grunim

Seeing the hireling change gives me hope that we will be able to obtain additional characters from the Crown Shop sooner rather than later. One of the arguments long used against additional character slots was that people would abuse it for the hirelings.

KrayzieBone_88

Grunim wrote: »

Seeing the hireling change gives me hope that we will be able to obtain additional characters from the Crown Shop sooner rather than later. One of the arguments long used against additional character slots was that people would abuse it for the hirelings.

Excellent point! Never thought of that. That would make some sense --- doesn't Call of Duty and similar games offer extra loadout slots as in-game purchases? I could easily see that taking the form of character slots for ESO. Not sure how I feel about that, but nerfing hirelings would be a necessity if they went that route.

Rook_Master

You know, I invested a ton of time and effort into my hirelings, and pretty much the only thing I care about at this point is Gold resins/tempers/runes.

Now all that hard work I put in up front is completely invalidated.

It's not like hirelings were some shameful exploit like the Scorpion Grind or something. Why does it suddenly need to be changed, nine months after release?

This is absolutely insane, and I really hope ZOS reconsiders this one. It's already asinine enough to have to relog on 8 characters. Now it's just a complete waste of time.

BlueIllyrian

Iago wrote: »

I have my Black Smith maxed out and this is what I received after refining 1,000 voistone ore

(snip)

If they nerfed my one hireling then I may as well re-spec and just buy all my *** from other players.

Now why would you do that when there will be handy-dandy cash shop there precisely for that thing.

Like other games that converted to the cash shop the crafting will become tedious to an extreme to get you to buy items from the cash shop.

It's convenient.

Winnower

One more reason to just stop bothering to log in. I'm making a list; and it's getting longer weekly.

TequilaFire

daemonios wrote: »

Gold improvement mats in crown store in 3... 2... 1...

Yep, I was thinking the same thing.
Mats for crowns! smh

I_killed_Vivec

KrayzieBone_88 wrote: »

I guess we will find out in testing with the raw mat refining, but I have been more pointedly discussing enchanting (and to a similar extent provisioning). There are no raw materials for you to refine to get gold kuta...we would now have to farm all kuta (which has a ridiculously low drop rate)...unless it starts popping up in Writ rewards. You know if the patch notes mentioned that? I can't recall

They did say that writ rewards would be greatly increased - including kuta. In fact they gave the impression that legendaries might drop in the rewards, not just from surveys.

I imagine they are fed up with being told that people don't like burning 100 voidsteel just to get an amethyst, so they are boosting the rewards - and boosting the rewards from the refining you have to do to get the materials to fulfil the writs in the first place.

But if they boost the rewards then they have to "balance" by reducing what you get from hirelings.

Whether it's fair or not, it does make sense.

And they also said they were moving the wasps

Akhratos

oren74 wrote: »

KrayzieBone_88 wrote: »

oren74 wrote: »

Psychobunni wrote: »

oren74 wrote: »

they want you to play the game, instead of just logging in 7 alts to get mail. Go figure.

You know I pointed out the BS it the patch notes thread. Some people have jobs, a real life outside playing ESO all day. I'll use my husband as an example he works 12 hour shifts, with an hour commute each way. So on work days, he gets an hour, two if he is lucky, tops. He spends the first couple minutes logging all those he receives mail from, and then dives into play with whatever he can do in that limited time.

What this change does is effectively prevents him from playing aside from doing writs.

So, think outside your own little box before stating they want people to play the game.

Everyone should send feedback >>in game<< that this is a horrible change.

And you don't have enough time to PvP, so you should get AP anyway?

Oh and you don't get to do undaunted dailies, so you should get those anyway?

Fulltime worker, Dad of two...I still find enough time to do all 6 of my writs 2 or 3 times a week. Takes 20 minutes tops. You're either a crafter, or you're not.

Nobody is asking for something for free and writs/hirelings are not mutually exclusive. The point is that people who have multiple hireling alts had to invest a substantial amount of gold/time to level all these skills through lots of crafting/deconstruction. The entire point of investing all that was to get good refining materials. You take that away and you are left with a paltry gain in basic mats.... golds were the whole point because everything else is so cheap in stores.

I also do all the Writs every day to get survey reports, but hirelings and crafting writs are two completely different subjects and are not mutually exclusive. If it was indeed ZOS goal to incentive Writs...why not just incentive then more? Why nerf something else to hope that indirectly incentives writs. I feel the only motivation was to effectively "nerf" long time players out of gold/mats bc they were getting too many relative to new players....

sorry, I disagree, I see crafting mule alts as an exploit.

I dont think its an exploit because ZOS already knows this, but I completely agree with you.

Having 7 alts only for the chance to get legendary mats without any kind of work makes me sick, but nerfing the %chance to get them will impact even more to people like us who do not have hirealts.

Hirelings should have their %chance not only based on passive level (thats a bit short of a requeriment for a free chance to get legendary mats) but on maybe crafting achievements points or researched traits.


This is the first game I play where alts are more useful than mains with so many hirelings, inventory mules (zos fault for such a short inventory/bank), cyrodiil intel gathering..

spryler

Am I the only one who thinks this is a move to make them a viable purchase in the Crown Store?

Akhratos

BlueIllyrian wrote: »

Grapdjan wrote: »

[...]

[...]

What I dont get from mails is WAX.

Where is my ****ing WAX?

[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quotes]

DeLindsay

What some of you may not know is there's a passive in the Champion System that iirc increases your chance at refining a Legendary material by 10%. If by significant they mean to make it so that 1 full stack nets 2 Legendaries then I'm 100% for this change. I am swimming in Kuta atm thanks to some changes I made with my 8 Characters and on a regular basis get 10 or more (total) Legendary Tempers per day if I check them twice/day. I don't know how people didn't see something like this coming. Those of us that have had all 3/3 Hirelings since near launch have been bathed in Legendaries for ~9 months.

This change may not make ANY impact on the economy even, if the refining increase = the volume of what a single Player would get via Hirelings per day. Most likely they just swapped the drop rates of Refine - Hireling.

starkerealm

UrQuan wrote: »

Olern wrote: »

Islyn wrote: »

KrayzieBone_88 wrote: »

"Significantly decreased the chance to receive gold boosters, gold aspect runes and purple provisioning ingredients from hireling mails."

Omg why? :-(

Did you ignore this part?

"Significantly increased the chance to receive gold boosters from refining."

Which is fine for blacksmithing, clothing, and woodworking. In the long run, it will probably mean the same or more gold boosters from hirelings, as you always get stuff to refine from them.

As you won't be getting any gold aspect runes or purple provisioning ingredients from refining, though, it's definitely a nerf for enchanting and provisioning (although perhaps with the overall changes to provisioning it won't matter - but it probably will).

Provisioning writs... at least as they exist now, are a really good deal. You feed 4 ingredients into the box and get 10 out, plus other goodies. Improving their chance of paying out tomatoes and oats will make them stupidly good.

reften

starkerealm wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Olern wrote: »

Islyn wrote: »

KrayzieBone_88 wrote: »

"Significantly decreased the chance to receive gold boosters, gold aspect runes and purple provisioning ingredients from hireling mails."

Omg why? :-(

Did you ignore this part?

"Significantly increased the chance to receive gold boosters from refining."

Which is fine for blacksmithing, clothing, and woodworking. In the long run, it will probably mean the same or more gold boosters from hirelings, as you always get stuff to refine from them.

As you won't be getting any gold aspect runes or purple provisioning ingredients from refining, though, it's definitely a nerf for enchanting and provisioning (although perhaps with the overall changes to provisioning it won't matter - but it probably will).

Provisioning writs... at least as they exist now, are a really good deal. You feed 4 ingredients into the box and get 10 out, plus other goodies. Improving their chance of paying out tomatoes and oats will make them stupidly good.

Excellent point

UrQuan

starkerealm wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Olern wrote: »

Islyn wrote: »

KrayzieBone_88 wrote: »

"Significantly decreased the chance to receive gold boosters, gold aspect runes and purple provisioning ingredients from hireling mails."

Omg why? :-(

Did you ignore this part?

"Significantly increased the chance to receive gold boosters from refining."

Which is fine for blacksmithing, clothing, and woodworking. In the long run, it will probably mean the same or more gold boosters from hirelings, as you always get stuff to refine from them.

As you won't be getting any gold aspect runes or purple provisioning ingredients from refining, though, it's definitely a nerf for enchanting and provisioning (although perhaps with the overall changes to provisioning it won't matter - but it probably will).

Provisioning writs... at least as they exist now, are a really good deal. You feed 4 ingredients into the box and get 10 out, plus other goodies. Improving their chance of paying out tomatoes and oats will make them stupidly good.

Alchemy writs are also a great deal for similar reasons (although the return on investment is smaller than with provisioning), and enchanting writs leave you a little ahead of the game over time, but not by much (this is based on getting surveys sometimes, but not always).

Oh, and with provisioning and alchemy writs, if you've got the right passives, you're crafting multiples of everything you're making, so if you hang on to those and turn them in when you next get a writ calling for them, then you're getting an even greater return on your investment of materials.

But the equipment writs all cost significantly more in resources than you get out of them.

That's my experience anyway.

starkerealm

UrQuan wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Olern wrote: »

Islyn wrote: »

KrayzieBone_88 wrote: »

"Significantly decreased the chance to receive gold boosters, gold aspect runes and purple provisioning ingredients from hireling mails."

Omg why? :-(

Did you ignore this part?

"Significantly increased the chance to receive gold boosters from refining."

Which is fine for blacksmithing, clothing, and woodworking. In the long run, it will probably mean the same or more gold boosters from hirelings, as you always get stuff to refine from them.

As you won't be getting any gold aspect runes or purple provisioning ingredients from refining, though, it's definitely a nerf for enchanting and provisioning (although perhaps with the overall changes to provisioning it won't matter - but it probably will).

Provisioning writs... at least as they exist now, are a really good deal. You feed 4 ingredients into the box and get 10 out, plus other goodies. Improving their chance of paying out tomatoes and oats will make them stupidly good.

Alchemy writs are also a great deal for similar reasons (although the return on investment is smaller than with provisioning), and enchanting writs leave you a little ahead of the game over time, but not by much (this is based on getting surveys sometimes, but not always).

Oh, and with provisioning and alchemy writs, if you've got the right passives, you're crafting multiples of everything you're making, so if you hang on to those and turn them in when you next get a writ calling for them, then you're getting an even greater return on your investment of materials.

But the equipment writs all cost significantly more in resources than you get out of them.

That's my experience anyway.

Yeah, as far as I can tell, the equipment writs are only good for gambling on getting nirncrux out of a survey. There doesn't seem to be much of a purpose for them at cap, beyond that. Well, and grinding achievements.

kijima

It's going to put the price up for gold everything...

Reverb

I would have been upset about this in September, but lately I've been feeling like hunting down and slaying my worthless hirelings. I'm swimming in Kutas, but have gotten one wax, three alloy, and not a single oat since around Halloween. I know this because in mid-oct I started feeling like I was getting crap deliveries and started keeping a spreadsheet a few weeks later. I'm that kind of geek.

I'm so fed up with quartz, honing stones and the like. I have clearly made the RNG gods very angry.

I am sad for those of you who have been blessed with competent hirelings, because I have lived the world that is coming your way, and it sucks.

Sharkano

This move of theirs against hirelings is very unfair.

firstdecan

I really wish there was more detail on what "significantly" means. As @DeLindsay‌ pointed out, someone who has all their hirelings maxed out on 8 toons is getting about 10 gold mats a day. If that drops down to 5 I don't think it will be the end of the world.

briandivisionb16_ESO

You don't get much from hirelings

***. I get around 13 gold mats a day. As all my alts are 3/3 in every hireling profession. Didn't take much to do, either. This nerf was needed - I was getting equivelent to 40k gold a day.

SpAEkus

sorry, I disagree, I see crafting mule alts as an exploit.

Having 7 alts only for the chance to get legendary mats without any kind of work makes me sick

This nerf was needed - I was getting equivelent to 40k gold a day.

Why does this rationale still sound like its coming from the mindset that somehow using the game mechanics that ZOS gave us is an "exploit" and the people that already used the system and received its rewards have been yelling to nerf or remove it for everyone else afterward.

You already got yours so no one else should benefit from it anymore. You aren't putting anyone back on a level playing field "after the fact" of all the work everyone has done to use the system effectively.

And my crafter-alts have remained lower levels due to the need to harvest materials and recipes that are character-leveled.

Unless you can show me how "you" are suffering from anyone else using the same mechanics, I believe you "doth protest too much"!