100 crowns for each prior month for subscribers. (WOW! 250+ AGREES!)

Kragorn

Rial wrote: »

Valn wrote: »

Zenimax failed on their promises. As someone who subscribed and therefore supported the game on the promise of updates every 4-6 weeks, I feel I deserve more crowns per month for subscribing.

Just show me were in the license agreements and other legal documents between you and ZOS it says that ZOS, shoud they not be able to uphold their end of the agreement, owes you an amount of virtual currency should ESO ever introduce such a system.

Verbal contracts.

Not saying that this would apply here but it's perfectly possible for a company to 'say' something that they can be legally held to even if it's not in a formal document like those you cite.

Micallef

Kragorn wrote: »

Rial wrote: »

Valn wrote: »

Zenimax failed on their promises. As someone who subscribed and therefore supported the game on the promise of updates every 4-6 weeks, I feel I deserve more crowns per month for subscribing.

Just show me were in the license agreements and other legal documents between you and ZOS it says that ZOS, shoud they not be able to uphold their end of the agreement, owes you an amount of virtual currency should ESO ever introduce such a system.

Actually, have you even heard of verbal contracts?

Not saying that this would apply here but it's perfectly possible for a company to 'say' something that they can be legally held to even if it's not in a formal document like those you cite.

Yes I have but I too don't believe it applies in this case.
The damage to the company's rep may however be the same.

nerevarine1138

Valn wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Your subscription in previous months gave you access to the game and all updates

....that's because subscribing to the game was the only way we could play it...I sense a lot of passive aggressive in that statement. You're basically telling us to "stop whining", when you're the ones who made us upset with your failed promises and a mere 100 crowns per month as a "bonus". We didn't ask for a crown store, we subscribed because we thought you'd give us 4-6 week content updates, and that we were going to get a premium service with all the money we're giving you.

Weird. I subscribed because I like playing the game.

Slurg

Lauradana wrote: »

Do not hold your breath as these guys here have proven that they are cheapskates, well one good turn deserves another so we cancelled all 5 of our subs and will not be resubbing again. The wife and me both had 2 subs and my daughter one, we are all now going to play this game for free while waiting for Everquest next to come out. You reape what you sow ZOS and after reading the lastest critics from game sites you will be going the way Warhammer went, you do know that the most loyal fans also become your greatest foes if you disapoint and lie to them too much. I am turning anyone away from this game who asks about it and being the owner of a very big fantasy shop I get quiet a few people asking questions.

This is a good example of what results when a business fails to deliver what they have promised to their customers (in this case promising regular content updates funded by a subscription model, keeping the game a P2P only model, etc., while actually spending the money developing a B2P/cash shop model behind our backs.)

I think at this point many people would take the extra crowns as a gesture of apology for being misled about the direction of the game.

ZOS has a chance here to turn some of the people who feel unappreciated and inclined to not give the company another dime into evangelists for the game and walking billboards in the game for crown shop items for very little cost to them. Most people will not hoard all their crowns for future DLC that isn't even coming for many months, they'll spend at least some of it on new shinies that will be introduced in the crown store regularly. That's human nature. Get people hooked on spending in the cash shop and they'll come back and spend more, and they'll bring friends who see them with all this stuff in the game and want it too.

But instead it seems they'd rather gamble on new customers filling the void.

Valn

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Weird. I subscribed because I like playing the game.

That too. But for many people that isn't the only reason they decided to subscribe. Nice try though, even though I wasn't speaking on your behalf.

Gidorick

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Valn wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

I'm still not understanding the distinction.

You don't want more Crowns, but you feel insulted by not getting enough Crowns? So the solution here would be to give you more Crowns...

Yeah you're right you don't understand. We feel insulted because 100 crowns is a tiny number of crowns to give those subscribers who supported the game. We do want more crowns...

I would be getting 1200 crowns for the months i've subscribed...then next month i would get 1500 crowns, which suggests that my entire year of play time is worth less than 1 month of sub time after the update...

Nobody would be complaining if we got 100 crowns per month from the start of the game...and in 1.6 they upped the amount to 1500 crowns...everyone would love that we would get more crowns. But Zenimax have suddenly decided "oh for subbing to the game and supporting us through our lies, we will give you crowns, but a smaller amount compared to what you can get NEXT MONTH."

Gidorick wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Boy the whole "now with X number of agrees!" has really gotten those that disagree to speak their mind... saying the exact same thing every time. lol.

Welcome all that do not agree! We look forward to continuing to tell you that it's the empty gesture that we are upset about, not the fact that we aren't getting MOAR!!!!

I'm still not understanding the distinction.

You don't want more Crowns, but you feel insulted by not getting enough Crowns? So the solution here would be to give you more Crowns...

EXACTLY. You DON'T understand. We have tried to explain it to you but there's a breakdown of communication at some point.

So... you don't want more Crowns. You want more Crowns. Got it.

The payment model is changing. Prior to 3/17, we received zero Crowns per month, because Crowns were not a thing that existed. After 3/17, ESO Plus member will receive 1500 Crowns per month, because Crowns will then be a thing that exists. The bonus Crowns given go members who subscribed while the game was under the current payment model are completely independent. They have nothing to do with ESO Plus membership, so they shouldn't be compared to it.

At this point what I'd be most content with is them not giving us ANY bonus crowns. The whole thing has been soured.

BigM

I think we have beaten this topic enough. They aren't going to change what they have done so there really isn't any reason to keep beating a dead horse. I LOL a lot over this because of where this game could be headed. Personally I want it to survive because I do love it, but hate how the real loyal ones that have stayed subbed from day one are being treated. But really guys it is over they are going to stand behind what they are doing so we might as well accept it and hope for the best.

Micallef

Slurg wrote: »

Lauradana wrote: »

Do not hold your breath as these guys here have proven that they are cheapskates, well one good turn deserves another so we cancelled all 5 of our subs and will not be resubbing again. The wife and me both had 2 subs and my daughter one, we are all now going to play this game for free while waiting for Everquest next to come out. You reape what you sow ZOS and after reading the lastest critics from game sites you will be going the way Warhammer went, you do know that the most loyal fans also become your greatest foes if you disapoint and lie to them too much. I am turning anyone away from this game who asks about it and being the owner of a very big fantasy shop I get quiet a few people asking questions.

This is a good example of what results when a business fails to deliver what they have promised to their customers (in this case promising regular content updates funded by a subscription model, keeping the game a P2P only model, etc., while actually spending the money developing a B2P/cash shop model behind our backs.)

I think at this point many people would take the extra crowns as a gesture of apology for being misled about the direction of the game.

ZOS has a chance here to turn some of the people who feel unappreciated and inclined to not give the company another dime into evangelists for the game and walking billboards in the game for crown shop items for very little cost to them. Most people will not hoard all their crowns for future DLC that isn't even coming for many months, they'll spend at least some of it on new shinies that will be introduced in the crown store regularly. That's human nature. Get people hooked on spending in the cash shop and they'll come back and spend more, and they'll bring friends who see them with all this stuff in the game and want it too.

But instead it seems they'd rather gamble on new customers filling the void.

This.
One really has to wonder about the state of mind of those running this game.

Psychobunni

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi there, everyone. We understand that the transition of our business model and the initial crown allotment may not make everyone happy. Your subscription in previous months gave you access to the game and all updates; consider the additional crowns you get for this time as a loyalty bonus and a simple thank you. Please make sure you keep your discussion constructive, otherwise we'll need to close this thread.

That would sit well if people that simply went out and bought cards to get the subscriber loyalty reward weren't getting more crowns than those that subbed for a year.


But as it sits to get the best bonus, I'm supposed to run out today and pre-buy 6 months advance time...no, its not all about the money

Gidorick

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi there, everyone. We understand that the transition of our business model and the initial crown allotment may not make everyone happy. Your subscription in previous months gave you access to the game and all updates; consider the additional crowns you get for this time as a loyalty bonus and a simple thank you. Please make sure you keep your discussion constructive, otherwise we'll need to close this thread.

@ZOS_GinaBruno thank you for the response to the actual topic at hand. We understand what the 100C is meant to be and our point is that the 100C as a 'simple thank you' seems pretty paltry. Especially after the changes in the eligibility requirements of the Senche mount and Mask of Cheerful Slaughter.

But, all this has been said. With the two responses we've received from the MOD team, we know you've heard us. ZOS knows many of their most loyal customers feel dismissed and we don't feel appreciated. We've successfully communicated this, so there is no longer a need to keep this thread open.

As the originator of the thread, I don't know if I can request it be closed. If I can, please close this thread.

I'm tired of being insulted for expressing my opinion and perspective on this matter.

Thank you.

Garbrac

Normally I'm pretty quiet on these forums and keep to myself but holy crap, 28 pages worth of comments on a thread exclaiming that free stuff isn't good enough. In this thread people are complaining that 100 crowns is not enough of a retroactive payment. They think that it makes past payments worth less than future payments.

They are so incredibly wrong.

First, I need to ask, how come people feel they are entitled to everything. At what point did people get so self-centered that they think everything is owed to them. I do not understand this mentality, and I feel it's getting worse and worse as time goes on.

Zenimax is offering a Retroactive payment to players as a way of saying, thank you for sticking with us for these months, here is a gift for you to get you settled into our new system.

Just because you're getting 100 crowns for previous payment doesn't mean anything except that ZOS is nice. You were not paying $15 a month so you'd receive 100, 500 or even 1500 crowns when the game goes B2P, you were paying that fee so you could enjoy the game. You had no idea the game was going to change models, so why do you think you can change how you spent your $15.

That's like going to McDonalds, spending $15 on a meal every month and a few months later McDonalds announce they are changing the meal you bought, and will now be offering you a Large Fry, Drink, and a kick ass toy with your purchase. Do you think you can go back and demand that they give you all those awesome things because you bought the old package? I don’t think so, you paid for a service and you enjoyed that service. They may offer you some sort of compensation or gift to tide you over and make you feel slightly better about the whole change, sort of like what ZOS is doing with the Retroactive payments eh?

Oh man, that sure is nice of them isn't it?

Seriously people, get over yourselves and stop thinking you're entitled to everything, you're not. In fact you're lucky that ZOS is even giving you the 100 crowns.

Micallef

@Gidorick respect

Kragorn

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Your subscription in previous months gave you access to the game and all updates

Where as now .. our subscription in future months will give us access to the game and all updates .. I fail to see the difference.

I 'get' ZOS view it differently but there is no real difference, simply a PR position.

Gidorick

Micallef wrote: »

@Gidorick respect

Thanks @Micallef . Right back at ya.

Seraphyel

Kragorn wrote: »

The case in ESO is still not clear, though like many I lean towards blaming the bean counters in Zenimax Media, though the huge drop in player numbers last summer/autumn (there's plenty of indirect evidence for this in-game and out, even in the absence of numbers from ZOS) was the trigger: I certainly think Firor's "due to feedback" line was economical with the verité as the saying goes, it certainly was insulting his customer's intelligence.

The case is more than clear as you explained it above.

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

So... you don't want more Crowns. You want more Crowns. Got it.

No, you don't get it.

The crowns are just something neglectable whilst Zenimax' treatment of loyal customers isn't.

That's the point you don't get. It's not about the crowns, it's about the "message behind those crowns".

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi there, everyone. We understand that the transition of our business model and the initial crown allotment may not make everyone happy. Your subscription in previous months gave you access to the game and all updates; consider the additional crowns you get for this time as a loyalty bonus and a simple thank you. Please make sure you keep your discussion constructive, otherwise we'll need to close this thread.

More empty phrases for loyal customers, thank you so much.

Brasseurfb16_ESO

Gidorick wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi there, everyone. We understand that the transition of our business model and the initial crown allotment may not make everyone happy. Your subscription in previous months gave you access to the game and all updates; consider the additional crowns you get for this time as a loyalty bonus and a simple thank you. Please make sure you keep your discussion constructive, otherwise we'll need to close this thread.

@ZOS_GinaBruno thank you for the response to the actual topic at hand. We understand what the 100C is meant to be and our point is that the 100C as a 'simple thank you' seems pretty paltry. Especially after the changes in the eligibility requirements of the Senche mount and Mask of Cheerful Slaughter.

But, all this has been said. With the two responses we've received from the MOD team, we know you've heard us. ZOS knows many of their most loyal customers feel dismissed and we don't feel appreciated. We've successfully communicated this, so there is no longer a need to keep this thread open.

As the originator of the thread, I don't know if I can request it be closed. If I can, please close this thread.

I'm tired of being insulted for expressing my opinion and perspective on this matter.

Thank you.

Thank you for this thread, it was nice arguing with you!

Micallef

Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »

Thank you for this thread, it was nice arguing with you!

Likewise, thanks for being one of the fairer 'opponents'.

Gidorick

Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi there, everyone. We understand that the transition of our business model and the initial crown allotment may not make everyone happy. Your subscription in previous months gave you access to the game and all updates; consider the additional crowns you get for this time as a loyalty bonus and a simple thank you. Please make sure you keep your discussion constructive, otherwise we'll need to close this thread.

@ZOS_GinaBruno thank you for the response to the actual topic at hand. We understand what the 100C is meant to be and our point is that the 100C as a 'simple thank you' seems pretty paltry. Especially after the changes in the eligibility requirements of the Senche mount and Mask of Cheerful Slaughter.

But, all this has been said. With the two responses we've received from the MOD team, we know you've heard us. ZOS knows many of their most loyal customers feel dismissed and we don't feel appreciated. We've successfully communicated this, so there is no longer a need to keep this thread open.

As the originator of the thread, I don't know if I can request it be closed. If I can, please close this thread.

I'm tired of being insulted for expressing my opinion and perspective on this matter.

Thank you.

Thank you for this thread, it was nice arguing with you!

Lol. My pleasure! I did have fun. The jabs got low from time to time from both sides, but it has been awesome to see how polarizing this issue is! It's clear that we all love this game and feel personally invested in it, which is great! See you in Tamriel!

Pappa

Why are you guys whinging? It only took a 27 page thread for them to address our concerns, that's a win in my book.

Ysne58

I think ZOS should cancel those crowns too. I'm not the only one who feels that the 'thank you' is not genuine.

Rial

Micallef wrote: »

Promises - morally binding.

If you can't see that I despair for you.

I don't see where the connection between "breaking promises" and "not enough crowns" is. Please explain so someone as morally degenerate as me the formula by which the monetary compensation for broken promises is calculated.

Denidil

adding my agree.. we're getting a bit short changed.

c0rp

I have never seen a thread with 250 agrees, LOL...till now.

Haxnschwammer

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi there, everyone. We understand that the transition of our business model and the initial crown allotment may not make everyone happy. Your subscription in previous months gave you access to the game and all updates; consider the additional crowns you get for this time as a loyalty bonus and a simple thank you. Please make sure you keep your discussion constructive, otherwise we'll need to close this thread.

The whole thread is about that it is NOT considered a bonus or a thank you.
Well, here, take my LOL. You really deserved it.

Komma

I would like to say thank you to ZOS for the extra crowns that you didn't have to offer us. Thank you for the enjoyable game over the past year. Thank you for the bonus we are getting from this point forward for remaining a subbed customer. Many in our guild are coming back. Not just to play for free. Lots have been resubbing.

I have played since pre launch and feel ZOS owes me nothing. Here's to hopefully a great future in Tamriel!

WraithAzraiel

Gidorick wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

They're likely not going to budge on the amount of crowns we'll be receiving because the Crown Store won't have a whole helluva lot of options in it at launch.

So rather than frontloading you with Crowns with nothing to spend them on, they'll give us the 100 per month so we don't stockpile, drop our subs and just watch the DLCs roll in and we use our hoard of Crowns to scoop them up.

And this is the reason most of us realize that the 1500C/month would be too much for back subs. 500C/month would give us as much as was given to us on the PTS and I don't know about you, but I felt like that 5500 went FAST!

I agree. I'd like to at least be able to snag all the goodies I picked up while tooling around on the PTS.

Nazon_Katts

I don't think they can just close this thread nor even sink it without getting yet another credibility hit. Maybe if we just truly spoke our minds, didn't hold back and accept the inevitable warnings, we could provide them with a reason to do so. But where's the fun in letting the trolls win?

Besides, 1.6 will hit live tomorrow. It's going to be gorgeous.

Jiigen

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

Besides, 1.6 will hit live tomorrow. It's going to be gorgeous.

Funny you say that, they never said it would go live on Tuesday, during their latest ESO Live they mentioned they had hoped it would be able to go live on Tuesday or Wednesday.

Meanwhile we're still waiting on February's 9 month loyalty reward...

Nazon_Katts

Jiigen wrote: »

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

Besides, 1.6 will hit live tomorrow. It's going to be gorgeous.

Funny you say that, they never said it would go live on Tuesday, during their latest ESO Live they mentioned they had hoped it would be able to go live on Tuesday or Wednesday.

Meanwhile we're still waiting on February's 9 month loyalty reward...

"×Update 6 will be deployed this week! Maintenance on the North American server will begin Tuesday at 8:00AM EST (1:00PM GMT), and on the European megaserver Tuesday at 10:00PM EST (3:00AM GMT Wednesday)."

Oh noes! A misleading announcement? (Could use a bit more time, so wouldn't mind really)

Jiigen

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

"×Update 6 will be deployed this week! Maintenance on the North American server will begin Tuesday at 8:00AM EST (1:00PM GMT), and on the European megaserver Tuesday at 10:00PM EST (3:00AM GMT Wednesday)."

Oh noes! A misleading announcement? (Could use a bit more time, so wouldn't mind really)

Exactly, that's no guarantee with ZOS.