Help! We need more guild management tools!

MorHawk

They talked about this a while back, and we got all sorts of promises, but nothing's materialized. If nothing else, at least let us set withdrawal limits like quantity and type. That's easily my number one complaint, the guild bank is way too open to abuse without that.

ashlee17

NotSo wrote: »

Just let us set all white items to free for all and all green+ for administrative withdrawals only

Another possible solution if we had the tools to set withdrawals. Thanks for the ideas and support

Currently there are 2 modes avalible to guilds. Full player access or no access.
Hopefully with all of your comments and support for this thread zos will be able to see that it's an issue that reqires some attention.

Islyn

I think GOLD and MATERIAL deposits and withdrawals should be separate history sections.

Nothing worse than trying to run a Prize Raffle and someone being nice Roomba'd the bank and overwrote the Gold Deposits so I cannot see them.

Is there not some kind of 'notify me when gold is deposited' add-on?

Finally yes - the guild bank should have stepped usage rights, or even tabbed 'vaults' so access to the different sections can be granted.

This would spread the work as anyone with access to the higher tier COULD get something for a newer person, and there are no fears of mad bank raiding and finally; anyone not an officer won't feel like 'What's the point? Not like I can use the guild bank anyway.'

prototypefb

there should be like 2 tier options for items(individually asked before depositing item/stack/set of items in guild bank):
1) anyone can withdraw
2)password protected items(oficers are sent new password code once previous is used).
*password protected items need 3 digit/alphanumeric code to withdraw
*password refreshes after each withdrawed item/stack/pack of items(up to 5-10 at the time)
*officers gets new mail/pop-up while in guild menu/info each time protected item is withdrawn

this way officer don't have to phisically 'go' to player who wishes to withdraw protected item but can send a code to player for 1 transaction.
this offers more protection for guilds/less nuisance/disturbance in force :P

Jahosefat

There should definitely be more than an "all-or-nothing" choice on the banks. I think there should also be a function to only allow certain items or item types to be deposited in the bank (I remember early on some of the the banks being choked out by strange deposits). I think overall making guild leader's lives easier will help the community out, as they are a crucial gear in the ESO economy.

Shadesofkin

Time and again I've heard horror stories of people joining guilds, letting them build up some resources and then running off with it all because they were given unrestricted access. I've been very fortunate that I came into only one guild where this has happened, but there really do need to be better tools to limit and grant access, as well as other ways to handle guild maintenance such as keeping a vendor.

Stella75

The guild banks should be in away that I can make and label tabs. So lets say I want 100 tabs of the gbank to be my personal bank. I should have the ability to create a tab and name it Stella's bank, where I should also be able to black it out from view of people I do not want to see it. Same idea would also be nice for organizing the bank system, since zos does not want to. That is actually my biggest complaint when I go to materials tab and I have only gotten rid of 10 items out of 400

This system should also not be given to me. I believe there should be guild achievements that would open up the tab system above and other such tools. I think it would be good if as your guild grows and people stick around and develop relationships your guild should reflect that. I am not in support of a guild leveling system at all. Take the tab system I need to be able to get this achievement from dungeons, trails, pvp, crafting, selling and buying, questing, and pretty much anything else you can do in the game. First tab is 10 points in one of those things, second is 25 points in anyone of those things, and so on.

I say do like above because I feel like guilds are pointless in the game atm. Sure groups are slightly easier to find. Groups for pvp I can just tp to cyridell and get in one. Dungeons stand in mornhold. Trails not even sure people really still do them. Selling items I guess you need a big trade guild that has a store, but I have made most of my gold in zone chat. I realize the game is not in an ideal state right now, and that should change in the coming months, with more people playing maybe, but what happens if those new people leave then the game is where it is today and guilds are not as important.

Oh right then you can allow who you want access to which tab.

I have more ideas but this is all for now.

Streega

I didn't read whole topic (sorry - tl;dr ), but I agree with people above. Bank should be level and quantity dependant (you can withdraw 1 item plus 10-100 mats daily, but not above your lvl). If you need more, ask the officer.
Password is a good idea, but as a GL you can assign a quatermaster for each level/trier of the bank. It could be a senior member of the guild, appointed only to this one task and reporting once a day/week to the officer or GL. That way you can delegate the bank management to more people and save time.

ZOS_ChrisStrasz

Hello everyone,

This is an excellent post and there are some really great suggestions being brought up. It's something we'd like to provide as well and these are things we've discussed internally. We aren't currently working on these improvements but it is something that we'd like to do in the future.

Keep the suggestions and feedback coming. I'll be sure to share this with the rest of the group. Thanks!

Zabernat

After a lot of reading people's comments and talking to guilds I am currently in, the biggest need in guild bank management is a middle ground in terms of bank access. Solving that problen could be fixed through a number of methods (this is not an exhaustive list, additional ideas appreciated):

1. Tiered access, this could mean max withdrawal restrictions (stopping people from taking 10 mat stacks then quitting a guild), giving lower members access to white items only, higher ranks access to green items and so on. Essentially this boils down to a differentiation in access based upon standing within a guild.**
2. time-based access, meaning a guild officer could give temporary access to a guildie in order for them to do something quick without constant permission granting by the officers
3. Retribution for grab-and-go's, this could solve a lot of problems if officers had some way of recovering items that were taken by a guildie who then sells them and leaves the guild.*
4. A more streamlined process for guild members to request access to specific items within the bank without having full access, coupled with a way for guild officers to quickly approve/deny those requests without having to go to a bank to do it**
5. "Purchasing system" either through introducing some points that officers can hand to guild members with restricted access or by allowing officers to set gold costs to certain bank items and allowing members to purchase the items with gold or points


Like I said before, my list isn't complete but I think that captures most people's opinions and I have heard devs talk about wanting or planning on doing this stuff in the future so I look forward to hearing their feedback on our ideas!

* means this would be really difficult to operate in a fair way. I doubt this would realistically work.
** means this option is one I would consider optimal in terms of fairness and ability for Devs to possibly make this happen in-game

ashlee17

ZOS_ChrisStrasz wrote: »

Hello everyone,

This is an excellent post and there are some really great suggestions being brought up. It's something we'd like to provide as well and these are things we've discussed internally. We aren't currently working on these improvements but it is something that we'd like to do in the future.

Keep the suggestions and feedback coming. I'll be sure to share this with the rest of the group. Thanks!

OMG!!!!
Wow this is awesome! Thank-you so much for responding Chris very glad to hear that this is on the agenda.

Thank you to everyone who has kindly taken the time and effort to read, think about and respond to this thread so far.

Let's keep the feedback and ideas flowing. The more players give zos feedback on the need for better guild management tools, the sooner it will become a reality!

You never know... A future update may even contain some of the ideas hatched and fostered here!

Kat_Cnaa

Zabernat wrote: »

4. A more streamlined process for guild members to request access to specific items within the bank without having full access, coupled with a way for guild officers to quickly approve/deny those requests without having to go to a bank to do it**

What about using a "bag" item, putting things in it, then being able to assign access to a guildmember. This could be a way to give players rewards. The mail system works, but some players really dislike using it, especially for high-value (expensive to mail) items. Having to meet up with players to deliver items is a time munch for officers.

The "bag" item would need to be able to be named or else appear red to anyone not able to access it, or have some other system for identification. Purchasing bags for a reasonable fee could be another gold sink in the game.

The passcode system prototypefb mentioned above could work with this or in place of this.

likewow777

I'll be honest, I didn't read all of the posts here. I started to, but there are so many (and I'm sort of at work). Still, the ones I did read got me thinking and I'll provide my 2 cents on the matter. My idea is sort of a complete overhaul, so bare with me. I'm a software developer, so I'm thinking a lot on implementation and how I would actually write this thing myself. However, ESO is my first, and only, MMO, so perhaps a lot of these ideas already exist and/or have been said in this thread.

Oh, and this post is kinda, sorta, REALLY long... As per the standard rules of Internet socialization, there's a tl;dr at the bottom .

Tiered Access
There were those that thought this was a good idea and some that didn't, but in general I think some sort of tiering system should be there. The goal should be to make the guild store more efficient, and a tiering system provides more meaning to the rankings players have. Say you have 5 tiers, for example, one per rank in the guild. Players get access to the tier of their rank, and all tiers below theirs, but none above their rank.

There is the problem that some have mentioned of duplicates, but it doesn't have to be treated that way internally. In the UI, a tier 4 member would be presented visually what he has access to, but internally those items would be grouped together. Systems like this, where permissions determine the visual presentation, do exist (a wiki you find on the Internet would be one example), so it isn't unreasonable. Plus, the tier 5 members, the officers, would see the guild store as it really is. Everything stacked as it truly is in the system. You could go further and allow officers to check boxes for each item, determining which tier should see the item. By default, the item would go into the tier matching the player's rank.

Basically, it looks like there are duplicates, but there really aren't. Guild store space is calculated after the internal stacking is done, not on what you visually see.

Rank Automation
Officers need more automation. This can be achieved in a variety of ways. First, I think auto-promotion should exist. Others have mentioned this, I believe, and it should be based on simple things that, in general, are related to helping the guild. Officers, when setting up the guild, can determine the duration a player must participate to be promoted, and it can be easier at lower levels and harder at higher ones (like how skills level). So rank 1 -> rank 2 can take a day, or a week. Rank 2 -> rank 3 can be defined as two weeks, or a month, etc. Your access to the guild store also increases as you rise in ranks.

This might be controversial, but there should also be a demotion system, again tied to your helpfulness to the guild. If you never do anything to help, you stay at rank 1. Let's say you rise to rank 3, but then don't do anything else, thinking you can coast on being a higher ranking player. Well, then you will get demoted over time. Again, the time can vary and is settable by the officers. 1 week, 1 month, etc. If you were demoted and start contributing again, you will again be promoted over time, like usual. It could even be easier to get promoted, since you were at the higher rank previously (i.e. half the time of the normal promotion rate). If you're going out of town, request a leave of absence and your rank will stay without demotion taking effect.

Guild Store Automation
I brought up the tiered access earlier and UI related things, but I think it should go further. Things like auto-stacking should definitely exist. But, I'm also concerned about freeing up even more of the officers' time. So, imagine a tier 1 player wants to access a sword in tier 2. Instead of asking only a few officers, they can also ask people who are a part of tier 2. Players tier 2 and higher are given quotas for the items they are allowed to give to lower level players. In this system:

-Each transaction of this type is taken out of the quota (5 items per week, or 1 per day, or something).
-Transactions like this are allowed, but reaching or getting close to the quota gets you a warning.
-Warnings are treated visually as icons or coloration (green is a good player, yellow is close to quota, red is over) that only officers, or those with permission, can see in the main guild members view.
-Exceeding the quota results in anything ranging from suspending your quota for a time (you can use the guild store, but you can't give higher tiered items to lower level players) to being banned from the guild.
-All of this is determined by the guildmaster/officers/those who create the guild.

You could also create more rules, like you can only give items to a member 1 tier down from yours. So no tier 4 member giving a legendary cuirass to a tier 1 member, unless you're an officer.

The point is to give accountability to players while also letting them go about their business. I am in a guild where several months ago a player took a bunch of items, then didn't logon for two weeks. We all thought they stole the items and left. Turns out they had a family emergency, so obviously it was fine. Plus they put back all the items. Which brings me to the phrase "take a penny, leave a penny":

-Once you take an item, within a set time period, a player must place items of similar value/quantity, or the same item itself, back into the guild store (give them a week, or 2 weeks, etc, to put back items)
-Failing to do so results in, for example, an email sent notifying them they need to add items back, or they go straight into suspension (can only put items into the store, but can't take out until the "leave a penny" part is fulfilled), or they get banned, etc
-This system can tie into the promotion/demotion system, where players who leave more pennies than they take get promoted, while those who only take get demoted
-The guild creators, as usual, determine the rules upon its creation and can change if necessary

TL;DR
1. Tiered system - looks like there are duplicates, but there aren't internally
2. Ranking - automatically get promoted or demoted based on guild activity
3. Store automation - members above tier 1 get a quota, determining the number of times they can give a member one tier down an item, which the lower ranking member cannot access
4. "Take a penny, leave a penny" - if you take something out, you must put something back within a settable amount of time
5. Adjustable - everything can be determined by the guild creators, to the degree that if they want, they could use none of this, and have a guild that operates and looks like it does today

Whew!

Vairkjosab14_ESO

I'm all for more controls. Not a big fan of auto promote but tiered or limited item removal would be a big plus.

likewow777

Vairkjosab14_ESO wrote: »

I'm all for more controls. Not a big fan of auto promote but tiered or limited item removal would be a big plus.

Agree, it really depends on the guild. The option to auto-promote would be on a guild-by-guild basis. Sometimes it's not the best option, sometimes it's better. You could go one step further and have auto-advancement until, say, rank 3, whatever rank 3 happens to be. After that point, officers will determine advancement. Like you say, though, the point is to expand on the choices guild owners/officers have.

Master_Fluff

Lots of interesting suggestions here. I don't run a guild myself, but as an officer I don't want to have to monitor the deposits/withdrawals to make sure noone joined the guild just to raid our bank. So yeah, the current system needs improvement.

bellanca6561n

Only so much you can do when guild size is so out of proportion to simultaneous, real time membership participation size.

No matter how you arrange banks and commerce it will not feel like it's working, and it certainly won't feel like a community, if the ratio between the two is as inexplicably out of balance as it is here.

Sandmanninja

What is happening now is:
1) gbanks are completely locked down and no one but the guild leader and (some) officers (maybe) can do withdrawals. Why? Fear of a new member joining then robbing the bank blind then gquiting

2) gbanks are open to established members, but the guild leader and officers have to CONSTANTLY scan the withdrawal logs for abuse, send email, etc. It's like being a hall monitor.

I want more controls. compartments or tabs. Set permissions on each tab. 100% user configurable. "THIS" rank can do "THIS" to this particular tab. I generally have a freebie tab in my MMO guild banks where I stick low level gear, mats, recipes, etc. New members can make 1-2 withdrawals from this tab a day. period.

Give us this basic functionality and guilds will thrive. currently the only reason to be in a guild is the guild store.

Ivalice

I like a lot of the ideas here, as a leader of a guild, would love more guild management tools especially with guild bank. Having the ability to put a limit on withdrawals depend on rank is my favorite system. It's fair and you can see who abuses this and or uses it sparingly. Very nice thread! Keep reading ZOS! A lot of good ideas!

Kat_Cnaa

bellanca6561n wrote: »

Only so much you can do when guild size is so out of proportion to simultaneous, real time membership participation size.

No matter how you arrange banks and commerce it will not feel like it's working, and it certainly won't feel like a community, if the ratio between the two is as inexplicably out of balance as it is here.

From what I have observed for trade guilds (I am a member of three, but officer/boss of none), in checking the inventories and watching how well sales go, having ~250 active members stocking 30 slots in the guild store results in ~2-3k items being stocked in the guild store at any one time.

For a guild store to have a really robust selection, so that someone stopping by may have a very good chance of finding what they are looking for -- be it a mat, recipe, set item, etc, the #items stocked generally needs to be in the 5-6k range.

Trade guilds that aim for this typically have strict activity requirements. Sometimes it's a time-based requirement where a member who doesn't log in for 5+ or 7+ days is "automatically" booted. Or a member who doesn't "contribute" by buying a raffle ticket, making sales, or depositing in the store within a period of time is booted from the guild. And I've also seen guilds set a minimum price floor for their guild because of taxes. This seems like a *** step to me. I'd rather guilds be able to set their own tax rates that are automatically posted on the guild home page.

I would conclude that tools that allow trade guilds to easily monitor or automate this process would be desired. They would also need to have some way to mark a member that is exempt, for if someone goes on vacation or otherwise can't meet the requirement but is valuable to the guild.

This could all be set in the guild rank checkbox dialogue.

On the reverse, if we go with what bellanca6561n suggests, that guilds are too big, then dropping them down below 350 members would, I think, hurt the guild store mechanic. Automating login/participation requirements could help with this, but I think if guilds are shrunk, the number of store slots should be increased, so that individual contributions to a store can be increased so that guild shops can be more competitive and attractive to shoppers outside the guild.

So:
Tools to monitor or automate the promotion/expulsion of members based upon:

1. login within a set period of time (typically 5, 7, 14, 30 days)
2. raffle ticket purchase
3. sales quota (items/amount/slots)
4. guild store listings (putting items up for sale)
5. guild bank deposits
6. guild store listing price floor (by either setting it so members cannot go under it, or by reporting prices that are below it). I'd rather guilds be able to set their own tax rates that are automatically posted on the guild home page.

Vallaris

As guild leader of my main guilds associated crafting guild, its all about access to the guild bank at this time. This bank exists for the use of its members as a location to find Mats and Trait items etc and as such, is open to abuse.

Some sort of restriction to access would be highly valuable and either a restriction to the number of items able to be withdrawn in a given timeframe or the ability to allocate items to 'sections'.

Both together would be good, options in the rank settings to allocate the amount of items able to be withdrawn in a 24 hour period and then options within the 'sections' that can allocate which ranks have access to each section of the bank.

Bottom line is I agree that there should be more controls available to the guild leader because at this point you either have to accept that you are going to get robbed every now and then or limit the access totally and have the guild leader and select officers have to dole out items on request which is both time consuming and condescending to those who really just want to do the right thing!

Kat_Cnaa

NotSo wrote: »

Just let us set all white items to free for all and all green+ for administrative withdrawals only

It's too bad dwemer frame and Nirncrux are white items.

radiostar

leandro.800ub17_ESO wrote: »

There could be special allocated slots to use as fully open to all and others only for commanders and for use in raffle prices.
Also limit amount of withdraw per these slots

Agree. Rather than trying to place more complicated controls on their members, place more control options on the slots of the bank. Why not let the GM/control officers decide how many slots will be open withdraw, how many will be for targeted ranks, etc.? Let the guild change up their options as they grow. Z needs to give better controls over the banks to the guilds.

kelly.medleyb14_ESO

Kat_Cnaa wrote: »

NotSo wrote: »

Just let us set all white items to free for all and all green+ for administrative withdrawals only

It's too bad dwemer frame and Nirncrux are white items.

^ This, which leads to a whole nother discussion as to why rare items are not marked as rare.

At bare minimum we need more control over who can take what and how much from the guild bank.

b.darlingb14_ESO

A few Ideas for things I would like for guild tools .

1) built in Guild calendar

2) betting bank management , bring auto sort back please .

3) the ability to upload custom guild crests . I see thins is a bunch of new games and honestly i don't think it would too much a hassle to at the very worst take 1 sec and say yep this guild sigiil is inappropriate or not . maybe only enabled to guilds of a certain population or longevity .

Thank you for your time and forgive me if other people have mentioned these ideas and i reiterated .

Splint [SiN]

idk

Being able to limit access to the guild bank is a choice and a fabulous choice to have just like staying in a guild is a choice. Based on the poll the OP listed it seems more like a frustration with guild leadership.

I think it is great we can block access to the guild bank for new members. There are, while small in numbers, some players that will rob a guild blind. Blocking access to new members is a great idea. If leadership is so controlling they never give access to rank and file, well, boots are made or walking.

With that, I think it would be great to give leadership the further option of restricting the number of withdraws that can be made in a week and maybe a day as well. The only other option that could be helpful is being able to section off parts of the guild bank so that leadership could cordon off a small area that is only accessible to them.

kelly.medleyb14_ESO

I agree @Giles.floydub17_ESO perhaps some of these features would be added to the cash shop!

LMar

Allowing only a limited number of withdrawals in some some ranks seems very sensible to me. After all withdrawing 200 trait stones and stacks upon stacks of material just screams that someone is about to go on a crafting and selling grind, something that is selfish when using the guild bank. Some Guilds try to help players by allowing free access but going on a massive withdrawal spree is just abusing people's trust

kelly.medleyb14_ESO

Agreed at the bare minimum we need to be able to control how much gold/items per rank.

Kat_Cnaa

I noticed since Update 6 rolled out, each of my toons get a notification when one of my guilds update their Message of the Day. I logged in with one, and noticed the notification. I could hover over the page icon and see the message. Then logged into another toon and there was the notification again.