Its not enjoyable at all anymore.

RinaldoGandolphi · January 2015

You wont really stop the stacking impulse unless you change negate. Right now, they don't pop negate for offensive purposes, they use absorption field, so every ground based AOE you can on them inside that bubble is a heal...good luck killing them, caps or not.

The only AOE that wont heal them is impulse and you can't cast it inside their negate bubble.

So your left with siege as the only viable AOE that wont heal them inside it as far as I know.

However nerfing absorption field will hurt sorcs bad because were already weak, and if negate wasn't as good as it is, Sorc wouldn't even be viable in pve trials and such as other classes do more DPS so the sorc becomes the odd one out. Nerfing absorption field will really hurt sorcs, way more in pve then pvp but would make the class too weak to even be considered.

That's why they run those massive groups and spam negate, the AOE cap removal may just make absorption field heal them even more.

IMO the best counter is well placed siege with a very beefy meatshield in front of it, or plenty of distance.

Poxheart · January 2015

NordJitsu wrote: »

Provide some type of proof or at least supporting argumentation that people are intentionally causing lag or stop making the claim.

People stack and spam impulse because AOE caps make it the best strategy. If that causes lag for you, it's probably your system (turn down your settings.) I personally never have poor performance in cyrodiil.

There have been numerous videos posted of groups stacking & lagging the game. If you haven't seen the videos or experienced the lag first hand then you haven't researched the matter and/or don't PvP very often.

miahq · January 2015

woodsro wrote: »

You wont really stop the stacking impulse unless you change negate. Right now, they don't pop negate for offensive purposes, they use absorption field, so every ground based AOE you can on them inside that bubble is a heal...good luck killing them, caps or not.

The only AOE that wont heal them is impulse and you can't cast it inside their negate bubble.

So your left with siege as the only viable AOE that wont heal them inside it as far as I know.

However nerfing absorption field will hurt sorcs bad because were already weak, and if negate wasn't as good as it is, Sorc wouldn't even be viable in pve trials and such as other classes do more DPS so the sorc becomes the odd one out. Nerfing absorption field will really hurt sorcs, way more in pve then pvp but would make the class too weak to even be considered.

That's why they run those massive groups and spam negate, the AOE cap removal may just make absorption field heal them even more.

IMO the best counter is well placed siege with a very beefy meatshield in front of it, or plenty of distance.

There are always alternatives though. But, of course as disorganized as most people are... And considering how no one listens to anyone... You're likely still to have a bunch of idiots spamming AoE magic spells at them. So I guess your point still stands.

Honestly, I never thought changing the caps would end zergs anyway. If you want to do it, a low ~5% splash damage on allies is the only way... Of course they could always use negate as well. But frankly considering allies can still cast in negate field, splash damage shouldn't heal either.

Columba · January 2015

NordJitsu wrote: »

Provide some type of proof or at least supporting argumentation that people are intentionally causing lag or stop making the claim.

People stack and spam impulse because AOE caps make it the best strategy. If that causes lag for you, it's probably your system (turn down your settings.) I personally never have poor performance in cyrodiil.

If it is in fact causing server side lag, that would negatively affect the "chimps" as much as you. Which would make it a dumb strategy.

lol they bragged about it here on this forum. We see 20 of them away from fights spamming skills. not in the fight at all. proof enough for me.

miahq · January 2015

Columba wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

Provide some type of proof or at least supporting argumentation that people are intentionally causing lag or stop making the claim.

People stack and spam impulse because AOE caps make it the best strategy. If that causes lag for you, it's probably your system (turn down your settings.) I personally never have poor performance in cyrodiil.

If it is in fact causing server side lag, that would negatively affect the "chimps" as much as you. Which would make it a dumb strategy.

lol they bragged about it here on this forum. We see 20 of them away from fights spamming skills. not in the fight at all. proof enough for me.

Lol, I've not seen that but yeah, I guess it seems like some people do that. Sounds like a great bunch...

Darnathian · January 2015

Columba wrote: »

lagging out the server isn't strategy. i agree with #1 or simply put a decent cool down on chimp spam.

Yes this.

Also put a lol down on stealth, lethal arrow, and snipe.

Grim13 · January 2015

Darnathian wrote: »

Columba wrote: »

lagging out the server isn't strategy. i agree with #1 or simply put a decent cool down on chimp spam.

Yes this.

Also put a lol down on stealth, lethal arrow, and snipe.

Stealth? Doesn't work half the time.

frozywozy · January 2015

miahq wrote: »

woodsro wrote: »

You wont really stop the stacking impulse unless you change negate. Right now, they don't pop negate for offensive purposes, they use absorption field, so every ground based AOE you can on them inside that bubble is a heal...good luck killing them, caps or not.

The only AOE that wont heal them is impulse and you can't cast it inside their negate bubble.

So your left with siege as the only viable AOE that wont heal them inside it as far as I know.

However nerfing absorption field will hurt sorcs bad because were already weak, and if negate wasn't as good as it is, Sorc wouldn't even be viable in pve trials and such as other classes do more DPS so the sorc becomes the odd one out. Nerfing absorption field will really hurt sorcs, way more in pve then pvp but would make the class too weak to even be considered.

That's why they run those massive groups and spam negate, the AOE cap removal may just make absorption field heal them even more.

IMO the best counter is well placed siege with a very beefy meatshield in front of it, or plenty of distance.

There are always alternatives though. But, of course as disorganized as most people are... And considering how no one listens to anyone... You're likely still to have a bunch of idiots spamming AoE magic spells at them. So I guess your point still stands.

Honestly, I never thought changing the caps would end zergs anyway. If you want to do it, a low ~5% splash damage on allies is the only way... Of course they could always use negate as well. But frankly considering allies can still cast in negate field, splash damage shouldn't heal either.

When they finally fix medium and heavy armor and make it so those classes can ALSO stack together and use stamina AOE damage a.k.a steel tornado WITHOUT having to dodge roll every 2seconds to avoid damage, then yes there will be a great counter to negate magic. Until that happens, the more sorcs you have to counter negate, the better chances you have to succeed.

Right now : Annulement > Evasion > Immovable

They need to change those skills to give the same damage mitigation for all.

Teargrants · January 2015

frozywozy wrote: »

miahq wrote: »

woodsro wrote: »

You wont really stop the stacking impulse unless you change negate. Right now, they don't pop negate for offensive purposes, they use absorption field, so every ground based AOE you can on them inside that bubble is a heal...good luck killing them, caps or not.

The only AOE that wont heal them is impulse and you can't cast it inside their negate bubble.

So your left with siege as the only viable AOE that wont heal them inside it as far as I know.

However nerfing absorption field will hurt sorcs bad because were already weak, and if negate wasn't as good as it is, Sorc wouldn't even be viable in pve trials and such as other classes do more DPS so the sorc becomes the odd one out. Nerfing absorption field will really hurt sorcs, way more in pve then pvp but would make the class too weak to even be considered.

That's why they run those massive groups and spam negate, the AOE cap removal may just make absorption field heal them even more.

IMO the best counter is well placed siege with a very beefy meatshield in front of it, or plenty of distance.

There are always alternatives though. But, of course as disorganized as most people are... And considering how no one listens to anyone... You're likely still to have a bunch of idiots spamming AoE magic spells at them. So I guess your point still stands.

Honestly, I never thought changing the caps would end zergs anyway. If you want to do it, a low ~5% splash damage on allies is the only way... Of course they could always use negate as well. But frankly considering allies can still cast in negate field, splash damage shouldn't heal either.

When they finally fix medium and heavy armor and make it so those classes can ALSO stack together and use stamina AOE damage a.k.a steel tornado WITHOUT having to dodge roll every 2seconds to avoid damage, then yes there will be a great counter to negate magic. Until that happens, the more sorcs you have to counter negate, the better chances you have to succeed.

Right now : Annulement > Evasion > Immovable

They need to change those skills to give the same damage mitigation for all.

I dunno what world you live in, but our stam dual wield NB spams steel tornado for days in our raids and gets insane dps just fine. Stam aoe builds stack up just fine, the future is now.

miahq · January 2015

Teargrants wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

miahq wrote: »

woodsro wrote: »

You wont really stop the stacking impulse unless you change negate. Right now, they don't pop negate for offensive purposes, they use absorption field, so every ground based AOE you can on them inside that bubble is a heal...good luck killing them, caps or not.

The only AOE that wont heal them is impulse and you can't cast it inside their negate bubble.

So your left with siege as the only viable AOE that wont heal them inside it as far as I know.

However nerfing absorption field will hurt sorcs bad because were already weak, and if negate wasn't as good as it is, Sorc wouldn't even be viable in pve trials and such as other classes do more DPS so the sorc becomes the odd one out. Nerfing absorption field will really hurt sorcs, way more in pve then pvp but would make the class too weak to even be considered.

That's why they run those massive groups and spam negate, the AOE cap removal may just make absorption field heal them even more.

IMO the best counter is well placed siege with a very beefy meatshield in front of it, or plenty of distance.

There are always alternatives though. But, of course as disorganized as most people are... And considering how no one listens to anyone... You're likely still to have a bunch of idiots spamming AoE magic spells at them. So I guess your point still stands.

Honestly, I never thought changing the caps would end zergs anyway. If you want to do it, a low ~5% splash damage on allies is the only way... Of course they could always use negate as well. But frankly considering allies can still cast in negate field, splash damage shouldn't heal either.

When they finally fix medium and heavy armor and make it so those classes can ALSO stack together and use stamina AOE damage a.k.a steel tornado WITHOUT having to dodge roll every 2seconds to avoid damage, then yes there will be a great counter to negate magic. Until that happens, the more sorcs you have to counter negate, the better chances you have to succeed.

Right now : Annulement > Evasion > Immovable

They need to change those skills to give the same damage mitigation for all.

I dunno what world you live in, but our stam dual wield NB spams steel tornado for days in our raids and gets insane dps just fine. Stam aoe builds stack up just fine, the future is now.

I'm still waiting to hear clarification on how buffs will now stack though. They've really not said if it will be the same for set buffs and enchants, in which case a lot of those builds that rely on stacking 2-3 armor or enchant buffs on top of a spell or even two spells, will not work. Granted, that would potentially kill both pure stamina dps and pure Mage builds simultaneously. But, still not sure a lot of it isn't going to be undone here in 1.6.

Durham · January 2015

frozywozy wrote: »

"pulse monkey spamming" as you called it in your last 37 hate posts is one of the best strategy to be successful in group play. if you don't like group play, go play a single player game, join a duelist guild or wait for arena, battlegrounds.

I don't blame u for playing the way u do... However your tactic has virtually destroyed the PvP populations.. Vast majority of players find it not fun to play against... Again I do not fault you or any other guild .. I have run the same setup however I also understand the devastation its caused.. I blame ZOS for taking 9 months to address the issue...

Columba · January 2015

Durham wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

"pulse monkey spamming" as you called it in your last 37 hate posts is one of the best strategy to be successful in group play. if you don't like group play, go play a single player game, join a duelist guild or wait for arena, battlegrounds.

I don't blame u for playing the way u do... However your tactic has virtually destroyed the PvP populations.. Vast majority of players find it not fun to play against... Again I do not fault you or any other guild .. I have run the same setup however I also understand the devastation its caused.. I blame ZOS for taking 9 months to address the issue...

I fault his group for intentionally lagging out the server. It's well documented and many EP brag about this "skillful play."

Lava_Croft · January 2015

Columba wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

"pulse monkey spamming" as you called it in your last 37 hate posts is one of the best strategy to be successful in group play. if you don't like group play, go play a single player game, join a duelist guild or wait for arena, battlegrounds.

I don't blame u for playing the way u do... However your tactic has virtually destroyed the PvP populations.. Vast majority of players find it not fun to play against... Again I do not fault you or any other guild .. I have run the same setup however I also understand the devastation its caused.. I blame ZOS for taking 9 months to address the issue...

I fault his group for intentionally lagging out the server. It's well documented and many EP brag about this "skillful play."

TL;DR It's bad when broken stuff is used against me, it's fine when I use broken stuff against others.

Columba · January 2015

I dont pulse or healing springs spam, however,.

miahq · January 2015

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Columba wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

"pulse monkey spamming" as you called it in your last 37 hate posts is one of the best strategy to be successful in group play. if you don't like group play, go play a single player game, join a duelist guild or wait for arena, battlegrounds.

I don't blame u for playing the way u do... However your tactic has virtually destroyed the PvP populations.. Vast majority of players find it not fun to play against... Again I do not fault you or any other guild .. I have run the same setup however I also understand the devastation its caused.. I blame ZOS for taking 9 months to address the issue...

I fault his group for intentionally lagging out the server. It's well documented and many EP brag about this "skillful play."

TL;DR It's bad when broken stuff is used against me, it's fine when I use broken stuff against others.

Regardless of any truth to that statement though, it doesn't absolve his group from being criticized for doing it in the first place just because others do it as well

Darlgon · January 2015

Columba wrote: »

I dont pulse or healing springs spam, however,.

I use both when needed. And, no,, its not to lag people out.

Grim13 · January 2015

"Lag'em and bag'em"

Columba · January 2015

Darlgon wrote: »

Columba wrote: »

I dont pulse or healing springs spam, however,.

I use both when needed. And, no,, its not to lag people out.

not everyone who uses them intentionally lag the server. A certain notorious EP (ex AD) chimp group brags about lagging out the server on purpose with these. These "players" should have been permabanned months ago.

Lava_Croft · January 2015

Columba wrote: »

I dont pulse or healing springs spam, however,.

You didn't stop using Lethal Arrow when it became apparent the healing debuff stacked either.

Pot, kettle, etc.

Columba · January 2015

i use focused aim, and neither lag the server, lol.

Lava_Croft · January 2015

Columba wrote: »

i use focused aim, and neither lag the server, lol.

It was a semi-random example. People didn't quit using Harness Magicka when it was bugged, people didn't quit using Twin Sisters, Lethal Arrow, Healing Ward or any other skill that was broken in favor of the user, while kind of ruining it for the enemy.
This time around it's a group of EP AoE spammers, last time it was [insert random group/faction] and so on.

People have always done this and will always do this. What exactly makes this particular case so special? It's not like this group of EP is the first to do such a thing and it most certainly won't be the last. Not with every medium-sized battle in Cyrodiil always ending in a lagfest purely because ESO is still kind of broken.

frozywozy · January 2015

Columba wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

"pulse monkey spamming" as you called it in your last 37 hate posts is one of the best strategy to be successful in group play. if you don't like group play, go play a single player game, join a duelist guild or wait for arena, battlegrounds.

I don't blame u for playing the way u do... However your tactic has virtually destroyed the PvP populations.. Vast majority of players find it not fun to play against... Again I do not fault you or any other guild .. I have run the same setup however I also understand the devastation its caused.. I blame ZOS for taking 9 months to address the issue...

I fault his group for intentionally lagging out the server. It's well documented and many EP brag about this "skillful play."

You realize I'm a one hand shield DK?

Cody · January 2015

frozywozy wrote: »

Columba wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

"pulse monkey spamming" as you called it in your last 37 hate posts is one of the best strategy to be successful in group play. if you don't like group play, go play a single player game, join a duelist guild or wait for arena, battlegrounds.

I don't blame u for playing the way u do... However your tactic has virtually destroyed the PvP populations.. Vast majority of players find it not fun to play against... Again I do not fault you or any other guild .. I have run the same setup however I also understand the devastation its caused.. I blame ZOS for taking 9 months to address the issue...

I fault his group for intentionally lagging out the server. It's well documented and many EP brag about this "skillful play."

You realize I'm a one hand shield DK?

now I have to kill you:)

Cody · January 2015

Columba wrote: »

Darlgon wrote: »

Columba wrote: »

I dont pulse or healing springs spam, however,.

I use both when needed. And, no,, its not to lag people out.

not everyone who uses them intentionally lag the server. A certain notorious EP (ex AD) chimp group brags about lagging out the server on purpose with these. These "players" should have been permabanned months ago.

So have you made that guild I mentioned yet?

RinaldoGandolphi · January 2015

The lag has gotten so bad at times, I rarely even bother with keep defenses anymore, I hang on the out skirts and kill, and hang in small groups killing reinforcements.

I don't like losing my sound for awhile and dealing with all the lag. I'll fight on the open field, all day, but I'm not dealing with that.

Keep offense and defense comes down to who has the most people to stack together and spam AOE and bats. I have nothing against these skill, infact I think their cool, I use AOE at times like everyone else.

It reality the real fix is siege needs:

To do about 200% more damage then it does now. I just shot you with artillery for petes sake. Ever watch demos of what roman ballista did to even heavy armor troops? If you get hit by siege, you should be dead...siege should do 3-4k damage to players, its artillery, its akin to getting shot with a tank.

Give me "real siege" and let someone charge the breech. As it is now, folks walk right through siege artillery fire like irs nothing. Siege should hit as hard ad greneades do in COD. No one should be able to just walk right through getting shot with a ballista.

I shot a DK right in the face at 6 meters away with a fire ballista tonight and it barely moved his health bar...there's your problem right there.

Make siege what it should be, attackers should suffer heavy losses being fired in with artillery, as it stands right now, your better off spamming Wall of Elements off the breech wall then you are shooting them with artillery. Its just plain dumb, I expect to die when I get shot with a ballista, but I can just walk it off even with light armor....thats the core root of the problem, make siege worth more then busting walls.

NadiusMaximus · January 2015

woodsro wrote: »

It reality the real fix is siege needs:

To do about 200% more damage then it does now. I just shot you with artillery for petes sake. Ever watch demos of what roman ballista did to even heavy armor troops? If you get hit by siege, you should be dead...siege should do 3-4k damage to players, its artillery, its akin to getting shot with a tank.

Your idea = zerg balls f'n gone

I like your idea. I'd make it 300%, and buff wall accordingly also. Defenders shouldn't be able to just stack artillery on walls with no fear from incoming fire either. In the old days most used trees to fire out of their keeps.

Trade off would be siege equipment would have half the health it does, They can take way too much damage also. Does anyone really repair them? It's cheaper to just place another now.

Xsorus · January 2015

heh, Steel Tornado is going to be insane next patch with the cap changes, its a 12.5 meter radius PBAE....People could stand outside your bloody negate and still hit most of you with it.

RinaldoGandolphi · January 2015

NadiusMaximus wrote: »

woodsro wrote: »

It reality the real fix is siege needs:

To do about 200% more damage then it does now. I just shot you with artillery for petes sake. Ever watch demos of what roman ballista did to even heavy armor troops? If you get hit by siege, you should be dead...siege should do 3-4k damage to players, its artillery, its akin to getting shot with a tank.

Your idea = zerg balls f'n gone

I like your idea. I'd make it 300%, and buff wall accordingly also. Defenders shouldn't be able to just stack artillery on walls with no fear from incoming fire either. In the old days most used trees to fire out of their keeps.

Trade off would be siege equipment would have half the health it does, They can take way too much damage also. Does anyone really repair them? It's cheaper to just place another now.

Agreed. I don't want AOE to be useless in this game, but if siege was actually effective for more then knocking down walls, it would make attacking and defending keeps a much more tactical game.

This prevents folks standing on the wall firing with no risk, as well as removing the zerg balls that charge the breech without a care in the world.

This would do away with the zergballing stuff.

Satiar · January 2015

Columba wrote: »

Darlgon wrote: »

Columba wrote: »

I dont pulse or healing springs spam, however,.

I use both when needed. And, no,, its not to lag people out.

not everyone who uses them intentionally lag the server. A certain notorious EP (ex AD) chimp group brags about lagging out the server on purpose with these. These "players" should have been permabanned months ago.

I'd love some proof of this claim. Any screenshots or proof of intentional lagging?

Teargrants · January 2015

I believe there is an inverse relationship between the number of times 'chimp' is said and the amount of proof forthcoming.