Its not enjoyable at all anymore.

Columba

Teargrants wrote: »

Poxheart wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Columba wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Columba wrote: »

I have no problem with NM, ALacrity, etc and most other high end guilds. It's the one(s) who bragged on these forums (deleted since then) about lagging out fights. I was in a guild which encouraged this. I didn't believe it for a while, then saw clear evidence of members of that guild abusing healing springs and impulse. My apologies for defending that guild leader. i was wrong.

So yes, there are guilds who do this.

I'm sure there are or have been people who intentionally lag the game. Id just like you to substantiate your particular claim about this particular guild.

what particular guild? Again, 2 guilds posted about intentionally lagging the fights. the posts were deleted. Secondly, 20+ people outside of a battle spamming over and over and never entering a fight is enough evidence for me?

Pointing to deleted posts no one can verify or look at for themselves is not proof.

Lag doesn't mean people are intentionally doing it like you claim.

Which guild? I believe you call them "rerolled ad impulse Ebola chimps"... over and over again.

Edit: And oh my god don't you know why people spam healing springs outside a battle? It's to get your ultimate up! Good god, basic game mechanics Columba

I'm not speaking for Columba, but just now I captured video of the Chalman siege where a certain group of EP players can be seen spamming AOEs on the flags. Very few skills were working and siege had neither would siege. This allowed me to take a full tour of the inner keep & ID the people doing the spamming. The game became so lagged out because of the spamming that they were able to repair the inner wall and the game crashed for me shortly thereafter. I'll make a youtube account & post it to this thread so you can see the proof you've been asking for.

Poxy, your comment's a joke. Take a moment to go back and read what you said.

People using aoe on flags, where everyone is forced to stack because of game mechanics is "intentionally causing lag" in your eyes? Please tell me how it's only a specific group of players that spam aoe on flags? Because everyone does it, it's how you take/defend flags, period.

Please outline what the acceptable flag battle strategy is in your mind then. Are groups suppose to stand in the breach spamming single target? Stand on the flag and spam single target?

The server always craps out when enough people are in close enough proximity using aoe. It has nothing to do with one group of players intentionally trying to lag the server. The only difference between organized groups and pugs in this regard is that raids have dedicated healers keeping them alive so they don't wipe on initial contact. Thus they last longer, and the lag persists longer since it only goes away when one side wipes.

There is no viable alternative to stacking on flags and spamming aoe atm because of game design mechanics. The flags flip whether or not any guards or defenders are still present and pbaoe is that fastest way to dish out dmg to groups of players.

I am referring to players clearly outside of the battle, spamming this spells, with no intention of using them in the battle. that's exploitation of game mechanics.

Poxheart

Teargrants wrote: »

Poxy, your comment's a joke. Take a moment to go back and read what you said.

I just watched the footage and yes, it certainly looks like people using skills to intentionally lag the game. Much the same way a certain DC guild used to do (and both EP and AD used to complain about).

NadiusMaximus

I am referring to players clearly outside of the battle, spamming this spells, with no intention of using them in the battle. that's exploitation of game mechanics.

You were lagged out though. The guys that appeared to just stand there and spam, we're probably surrounded at the time everything lagged. It happens all the time.

Columba

NadiusMaximus wrote: »

I am referring to players clearly outside of the battle, spamming this spells, with no intention of using them in the battle. that's exploitation of game mechanics.

You were lagged out though. The guys that appeared to just stand there and spam, we're probably surrounded at the time everything lagged. It happens all the time.

lol 200 m from the fight? ok.

miahq

Columba wrote: »

or put cooldowns on pulse spamming. pulse spammers would get upset, but that doesn't matter.

Or just raise the resource cost. When it comes to total damage versus resource cost AoE skills like impulse are absurdly more beneficial than any single target skill. Even if you tripled that cost to around 900, with enough people around the total damage/cost would still be a lot higher, the difference is you couldn't just spam it the whole way through anymore. Best you could do was maybe 2-3 in be row. That's about where all AoE attacks should be, honestly.

There are a few options they could take, though end the end they'll probably just reduce damage or something.

Rylana

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

heh, Steel Tornado is going to be insane next patch with the cap changes, its a 12.5 meter radius PBAE....People could stand outside your bloody negate and still hit most of you with it.

Ive always been baffled why more people havent already been using it. Its always been the biggest, hardest hitting base damage weapon skill full AOE out there, and an execute to boot.

I guess they just didnt like burning their stamina up. But with the right build and self control you can pretty much use it constantly. Definitely can with a repentance templar in your group.

1 repentance templar, 3-4 nightblade sap/tornado spammers. Not a joke. (and their damage is immune to negate)

Agrippa_Invisus

Rylana wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

heh, Steel Tornado is going to be insane next patch with the cap changes, its a 12.5 meter radius PBAE....People could stand outside your bloody negate and still hit most of you with it.

Ive always been baffled why more people havent already been using it. Its always been the biggest, hardest hitting base damage weapon skill full AOE out there, and an execute to boot.

I guess they just didnt like burning their stamina up. But with the right build and self control you can pretty much use it constantly. Definitely can with a repentance templar in your group.

1 repentance templar, 3-4 nightblade sap/tornado spammers. Not a joke. (and their damage is immune to negate)

They don't use it more because it's blockable.

Why use a skill that can be blocked when Destro staff provides two different AEs that can't be blocked?

That's part of the balancing that needs to be fixed with 1.6

Also, as of now, LA is still waaaay better than MA.

Hypertionb14_ESO

Rylana wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

heh, Steel Tornado is going to be insane next patch with the cap changes, its a 12.5 meter radius PBAE....People could stand outside your bloody negate and still hit most of you with it.

Ive always been baffled why more people havent already been using it. Its always been the biggest, hardest hitting base damage weapon skill full AOE out there, and an execute to boot.

I guess they just didnt like burning their stamina up. But with the right build and self control you can pretty much use it constantly. Definitely can with a repentance templar in your group.

1 repentance templar, 3-4 nightblade sap/tornado spammers. Not a joke. (and their damage is immune to negate)

its noticeably weaker considering how block works vs physical attacks.

its true you can spam it nearly forever and its range is huge, but its pretty weak untill a player is below 50-70% and its blockable. even if they are below 50%, if they block with the typical S&B build it will hit like a bug bite.

it can hit 1k on low hp mobs and players with ease on a crit... on a blocking full health S&B anyclass player with full impen, expect it to do around 10-50 damage... thats no joke either.

its by far the best noob killer if you spam it tho on a PVP build (with some crit) against non PVP builds that dont even have Impen yet.. and NBs can easily get well above the typical 50% impen most people bottom line by 10-25% or even 40% more with pots (i know for a fact my PvE gear on my NB is at 100% crit rate when pot chugging)

Davadin

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

RedShirtRob wrote: »

Just logged in. Like most mornings, Crystallized is Emperor, and has been for 4.5 hours (or, since ~6AM Eastern). AD have no scrolls. It's disheartening and pathetic. I don't believe AD ever nightcapped to nearly this degree.

It was worse.

Yup. When I first joined Thornblade at the end of the 1st cycle, it was every day grinding back from the gates. Usually there weren't enough EP/DC on untill about noon.

Oh I remember that. Morrowind gates fight. Most days. Most of the time. My VR1~VR3 ass was spamming zone chat in PvE asking EP to join the fight....

Man that sucked.

Rylana

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

heh, Steel Tornado is going to be insane next patch with the cap changes, its a 12.5 meter radius PBAE....People could stand outside your bloody negate and still hit most of you with it.

Ive always been baffled why more people havent already been using it. Its always been the biggest, hardest hitting base damage weapon skill full AOE out there, and an execute to boot.

I guess they just didnt like burning their stamina up. But with the right build and self control you can pretty much use it constantly. Definitely can with a repentance templar in your group.

1 repentance templar, 3-4 nightblade sap/tornado spammers. Not a joke. (and their damage is immune to negate)

They don't use it more because it's blockable.

Why use a skill that can be blocked when Destro staff provides two different AEs that can't be blocked?

That's part of the balancing that needs to be fixed with 1.6

Whats funny is even if its blocked it still does more damage than a typical specced fire ring (400 vs 350 on non crits). With the way they changed stamina builds a couple month back (more like several now that I think about it), the raw output of tornado, especially vs 50% health targets overshot even the strongest specced fire ring user by a long margin.

That and because nearly everyone and their mother uses light armor, they are much more susceptible to physical damage than flame/spell damage.

What is my counter to a LA/Staff DK on my NB? Fear + tornado on caltrops. Go ahead, let your health get low to GDB, a tornado execute for 1100 vs that LA rig just ruined that.

its all relative, because one meta is still being used heavily despite all the counters that have been discovered. You would see this in action Rylana (LA Destro/SnB Magicka DK) vs Xylena (2H/DW Stamina DK) actually. I cant stand up to that for long, I have to bail and recover because I simply cannot take the damage even in block.

Davadin

Why can't 2H get a skill like Steel Tornado

Satiar

As a Medium Armor NB who uses Steel Tornado, I find it works best in a support role. Put me in a group of LA wearers, and I act as a mobile, 13 meter execute. Absolutely amazing, works like a charm. Every group should have one. Seriously amazing for keep stuff, where health fluctuates a lot. If a bar goes below 50% while I'm around, it usually does not get to go up again.

A whole group of me tho? Ehhhhh, don't think so.

RinaldoGandolphi

Most sorcs are using Surge and Flawless Dawnbreaker ulty with impulse. Flawless DB gives 13% wep damage bonus just being slotted, and Surge boosts weapon damage way over the softcap this allows impulse to hit very hard.

Fire impulse don't worry me much, but if i see someone using lighting staff impulse they just really got my attention. Sorc disintegrate passive can trigger off any shock or lighting damage, and lighting impulse also does concussion damage debuff. I know its time to blink in short order away from them, stack shields, and range them down or retreat if significantly out numbered.

Agrippa_Invisus

Rylana wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

heh, Steel Tornado is going to be insane next patch with the cap changes, its a 12.5 meter radius PBAE....People could stand outside your bloody negate and still hit most of you with it.

Ive always been baffled why more people havent already been using it. Its always been the biggest, hardest hitting base damage weapon skill full AOE out there, and an execute to boot.

I guess they just didnt like burning their stamina up. But with the right build and self control you can pretty much use it constantly. Definitely can with a repentance templar in your group.

1 repentance templar, 3-4 nightblade sap/tornado spammers. Not a joke. (and their damage is immune to negate)

They don't use it more because it's blockable.

Why use a skill that can be blocked when Destro staff provides two different AEs that can't be blocked?

That's part of the balancing that needs to be fixed with 1.6

Whats funny is even if its blocked it still does more damage than a typical specced fire ring (400 vs 350 on non crits). With the way they changed stamina builds a couple month back (more like several now that I think about it), the raw output of tornado, especially vs 50% health targets overshot even the strongest specced fire ring user by a long margin.

That and because nearly everyone and their mother uses light armor, they are much more susceptible to physical damage than flame/spell damage.

What is my counter to a LA/Staff DK on my NB? Fear + tornado on caltrops. Go ahead, let your health get low to GDB, a tornado execute for 1100 vs that LA rig just ruined that.

its all relative, because one meta is still being used heavily despite all the counters that have been discovered. You would see this in action Rylana (LA Destro/SnB Magicka DK) vs Xylena (2H/DW Stamina DK) actually. I cant stand up to that for long, I have to bail and recover because I simply cannot take the damage even in block.

Trust me, I've tested Steel Tornado. 50-150 on blocking targets, even when low, is not a joke. It's abysmal damage that does not return the stamina spent on it. It's nice for noob killing, or catching people when they fail to block, but it's just too weak.

IMO, this is one of the inherent balance issues vis a vis stamina and magicka. Either make magicka based AE blockable or make things like Brawler and Steel Tornado unblockable.

IMO, they should make all AEs blockable and make it more expensive to block while wearing LA or wielding staves (stacking for both).

I think that makes Xylena so deadly 1v1 is her 2H. Those can hit like a truck and be remarkably durable, especially on a DK.

Rylana

Discussing this makes me want to put my head together with some people and bring two or three repentance/shield stack templars and four or so medium tornado NBs to a brawl.

Call us the Cuisinart

Agrippa_Invisus

Rylana wrote: »

Discussing this makes me want to put my head together with some people and bring two or three repentance/shield stack templars and four or so medium tornado NBs to a brawl.

Call us the Cuisinart

Due to the blockable nature of Steel Tornado, as Auohildr mentioned, you'd want only one or two steel tornados, the rest should be Impulse. That's how Hijinx ran at it's prime. In a 24 man raid, we'd have 2-3 Tornadoes, the rest of our AEs were Impulse, Blazing Shield, Spears, and a couple early wall users. Very, very effective.

frozywozy

Davadin wrote: »

Why can't 2H get a skill like Steel Tornado

WTB bladestorm!

Poxheart

Here's the raw video footage I grabbed from the 4 January Chalman Siege.

Just prior to when it starts I had been using a fire ballista to shoot across to the inner keep onto counter-siege and clumps of EP. Damage stopped registering shortly before this clip picks up (as seen in the damage log) so I stowed the siege (pack it in pack it out!) and jumped down.

After reaching the courtyard I attempted to dragon leap onto somebody in the breach with predictable/hilarious results. Not sure why the game ported me outside to a spot I'd not been close to at the 1:05 mark, but whatever.

Rest of the clip is me running around observing the siege until the game crashed.

youtu.be/cjHaXNaKhQ0http://

Agrippa_Invisus

Poxheart wrote: »

Here's the raw video footage I grabbed from the 4 January Chalman Siege.

Just prior to when it starts I had been using a fire ballista to shoot across to the inner keep onto counter-siege and clumps of EP. Damage stopped registering shortly before this clip picks up (as seen in the damage log) so I stowed the siege (pack it in pack it out!) and jumped down.

After reaching the courtyard I attempted to dragon leap onto somebody in the breach with predictable/hilarious results. Not sure why the game ported me outside to a spot I'd not been close to at the 1:05 mark, but whatever.

Rest of the clip is me running around observing the siege until the game crashed.

youtu.be/cjHaXNaKhQ0http://

Your own faction is screaming to stack/blob the flags repeatedly.

I think most of EP was there from what I've heard, giving up scrolls to keep Emperor.

Poxheart

True enough, but hardly any DC did (hence the yells) stack the flags (at least that I could see).

RinaldoGandolphi

I didn't charge in because whatever aoe I could see was dropping 2200 stacked damage shields in less then a second, nu huh lol

I was fire siege right inside through the door on to the flag trying to kill them and got a good but but then siege just quit working, after the 2nd insta wall repair I logged.

I'm squishy, charging keeps into the line of fire ends in my death shortly, I do tend to do well with siege fire support through the door, but that kinda lag made that not possible once siege bugged, it wouldn't even let me put none down at all towards the end. Lots of folks there for sure.

OrangeTheCat

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

snip...

AD is full of people who dont know how to, and actually dont WANT to actually get tactical.

snip

AD also has a lot of very negative people posting in zone chat. I dunno, maybe every faction's zone chat is like that. But what I do know is that being negative does not inspire greater effort by your faction. Being negative only makes the situation worse. Repeat offenders I put on "ignore". I highly suggest we all do that. I'd name names but... forum rules and such.

Grim13

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

snip...

AD is full of people who dont know how to, and actually dont WANT to actually get tactical.

snip

AD also has a lot of very negative people posting in zone chat. I dunno, maybe every faction's zone chat is like that. But what I do know is that being negative does not inspire greater effort by your faction. Being negative only makes the situation worse. Repeat offenders I put on "ignore". I highly suggest we all do that. I'd name names but... forum rules and such.

Are you talking about the Hotel in Sierra?

miahq

I do think it's funny their reasoning for not including collision at least between characters was all about performance issues, but the result was mass clumping and skill spamming that often seems to result in performance issues.

Maybe I just don't know enough about computers (I really don't), but would it have really been more resource intensive to enable collision on characters that it would've been worse than what happens now without it?

Also, considering 360 degree blocking, you'd think magic attacks would be more blockable, or that at least light armor wouldn't be ass effective, or maybe stamina cost a bit higher both so people don't just try to hold it down the whole time or that blocking cost was based more on damage blocked. Plus if it was actually breakable when you ran out in the middle of a block, so my damage got through. That way at full health tornado might be easier to block, but using it as a finisher with more damage it would be harder to bloc, and could potentially wipe out their stamina, allowing some damage to get through.

Frankly, I think sometimes using a bit more complicated mechanics can outweigh the negatives. Trying to be too over simplistic can cause it's own problems, like many eso has now.

Fruitdog

collision being on would lead to a lot of trolling.

OrangeTheCat

Grim13 wrote: »

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

snip...

AD is full of people who dont know how to, and actually dont WANT to actually get tactical.

snip

AD also has a lot of very negative people posting in zone chat. I dunno, maybe every faction's zone chat is like that. But what I do know is that being negative does not inspire greater effort by your faction. Being negative only makes the situation worse. Repeat offenders I put on "ignore". I highly suggest we all do that. I'd name names but... forum rules and such.

Are you talking about the Hotel in Sierra?

Errm, no comment. But there's more than one.

Koensol

Poxheart wrote: »

Here's the raw video footage I grabbed from the 4 January Chalman Siege.

Just prior to when it starts I had been using a fire ballista to shoot across to the inner keep onto counter-siege and clumps of EP. Damage stopped registering shortly before this clip picks up (as seen in the damage log) so I stowed the siege (pack it in pack it out!) and jumped down.

After reaching the courtyard I attempted to dragon leap onto somebody in the breach with predictable/hilarious results. Not sure why the game ported me outside to a spot I'd not been close to at the 1:05 mark, but whatever.

Rest of the clip is me running around observing the siege until the game crashed.

youtu.be/cjHaXNaKhQ0http://

I loved how you get close to the keep and the only thing you hear is batsbatsbatsnmorebats. Must have been a memorable moment.

miahq

Fruitdog wrote: »

collision being on would lead to a lot of trolling.

You're always going to have trolls though, it couldn't be that much worse, could it? The most is people could block you from passing. Has that really been such an issue in the past with other games-- with a p2p model I mean. F2p I'd imagine is an entirely different story.

Poxheart

Grim13 wrote: »

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

snip...

AD is full of people who dont know how to, and actually dont WANT to actually get tactical.

snip

AD also has a lot of very negative people posting in zone chat. I dunno, maybe every faction's zone chat is like that. But what I do know is that being negative does not inspire greater effort by your faction. Being negative only makes the situation worse. Repeat offenders I put on "ignore". I highly suggest we all do that. I'd name names but... forum rules and such.

Are you talking about the Hotel in Sierra?

There is a pretty good amount of negativity in DC zone chat so it's not unique to AD (or EP I imagine). I quoted you because the hotel you mentioned has sent me rage tells because I've ganked him so much.

Lava_Croft

Impulse's damage is so high compared to longer ranged skills because Impulse's damage only applies to near-melee range.

miahq wrote: »

Fruitdog wrote: »

collision being on would lead to a lot of trolling.

You're always going to have trolls though, it couldn't be that much worse, could it? The most is people could block you from passing. Has that really been such an issue in the past with other games-- with a p2p model I mean. F2p I'd imagine is an entirely different story.

I think you don't even remotely realize the level of trolling one can reach with collision detection for players. It would be absolutely awful.