Is there a dominant class in PvP?

WRX

Sorcerer is the dominant class in PvP

Erock25 wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

So I've avoided this for awhile, but I have to give my input.

DK's are far from overpowered. We are not the best tanks, not the best dps, not the best healers. We really have two things working for us, reflect and an independent self heal. All classes other than templar have better resource management, and a good templar does it better too. Talons are strong, but poor dps and no better of a CC than Sorcs have.

Here is my view:

NB's and Sorcs are probably the two best for PVP. NB's are excellent tanks, and the only class than can destroy you meanwhile doing 1200 HPS. Not to mention veil, execute, DoT's, etc.

Sorcs are incredible. Have more shields than most anyone can deal with, can CC entire groups with multiple skills (can literally permaCC), survivability is through the roof with streak, and extremely high DPS thanks to crit surge (pretty sure thats the class ability). Oh and please dont let me forget absorption field. That is by far the strongest skill in PvP and nothing comes close. Heals magicka and health for everyone inside by 15% per ground effect absorbed (at time of cast or after). That includes most ultis, blockade, etc.

Templars are very strong too, just not alot of magicka sustain so spell symm is nice (If you really want fun, use spell sym then mist form. HINT HINT). However they are by far the best healers, even though Ive seen NB's bring the same HPS. They are also the only other class (similar to NB's) that can be defensive and still do great DPS with blazing shield. Shards give tons of resources, and repentance is even better.

From my experience all classes are very balanced, and I see no changes need. I originally voted Sorcs, and while I still feel they are the strongest, they aren't dominant, they just have the most prominent effect in PvP.

Curious to see replies.

Just want to comment on a few things ....

"All classes other than templar have better resource management" - This is a joke, right? DKs set up for 1vX have some of the best resource management out there with Battle Roar. DK blows away Sorc and Templar in resource management. I can't comment on NB personally so I will not. The combination of battle roar passive, helping hands passive, and green dragon blood set up even magicka focused DKs to always have a good supply of stamina, which is vital in PVP. Sorcs just have Dark Conversion, which only really synergizes with a keep away bolt escape build.

"Talons are strong but poor dps and no better of a CC than Sorcs have" - This is another joke. Now, I will admit I can not speak from a large organized guild group. Maybe Encase really is the *** in groups because of the added range. But outside of large organized guild groups, Encase is pretty *** poor. It costs a ton of magicka and does even worse DPS than Talons 'poor dps' if morphed for it, and the other morph (which is only more useful for extending the crit boost passive) is useless because unless you're already stacking crit for pvp (stupid) you will still not crit even with it. Also, while Encase range can be seen as a bonus, do not underestimate the power of a self centered AOE talons which can hit everyone ganging up on you. Please don't forget Talons, is a dot and therefore is much better at generating ultimate as well. I don't want to assume I'm the authority on what skills everyone uses, but it seems almost all DKs use Talons while a very very low % of Sorcs are using Encase.

"Sorcs are incredible. Have more shields than most anyone can deal with" - uuhh DK has the same amount of shields and theirs is just about as powerful and also helps out their entire group.

"survivability is through the roof with streak" - Streak and Ball of Lightning are nice, but saying survivability is through the roof is an exaggeration. For starters, set up as magicka/light armor based, my second streak/BoL is costing around 420 magicka or so and just one streak isn't going to get you much of anywhere. Set up as a stamina/medium(heavy) armor based Sorc, I can streak all of two times from max magicka. Ball of Lightning also has a very buggy absorb rate and unlike Reflective Scale, it doesn't work against non-spell projectiles.

"extremely high DPS thanks to crit surge (pretty sure thats the class ability)" - Crit surge is only helping crushing shock and elemental ring and wall of elements. Crushing Shock can be good. I personally don't use it as I prefer to stack up a bit of spell dmg and therefore focus on class skills for doing dmg and can ignore Crit Surge entirely as weapon dmg gives me nothing and you will not crit anyone who has a proper PVP armor loadout. Elemental RIng and wall fo elemets is really only something I will use if I'm running with an organized group.


Anyways ... I can certainly understand someone coming here and saying classes are balanced, but to try and make it sound like other classes have it better than DKs leads me to believe your post was nothing but a troll attempt. In that case, good job.

Lol no, not a troll. I am assuming you play on EU because what you are describing is not particularly relevant in NA group play.

"All classes other than templar have better resource management"- This is true in many occasions.
-Unholy Knowledge reduces all stamina and magicka abilities by 5%.
-Blood Magic- Heals player 5% health when hitting an enemy with a dark magic skill. This combined with restraining prison is quite nice for 1vX, solo, group play, etc.
-Absorption field we all know is amazing.
-Sets can be combined with overload to make you have essentially infinite HP.
-Several other things that are instant cast and give up to 50% cost reduction.

"Talons are strong but poor dps and no better of a CC than sorcs have"- Restraining prison or shattering prison is much better than talons. As mentioned above, you can easily gain 30% health back from on cast, and get ulti. Streak through, more ulti. And if you are surrounded as a sorc then I suppose that's a player issue. plus 15M range is just huge and inside of keeps, using it down stairs is very good.

"Sorcs are incredible. Have more shields than most anyone can deal with" - Sorcs can easily walk around with 3k+ shields, no class gets close to that.

"extremely high DPS thanks to crit surge (pretty sure thats the class ability)"- You can find room on your bar for crit surge and stack spell power still. Then you have both soft capped, and can have a destro/restro which makes heals etc much stronger.

"survivability is through the roof with streak"- Idk how your streak costs so much. But you should be able to streak 3-4x that.

Again I'm not saying DK's got the short end of the stick, I am saying it is currently well balanced and we are really only the best at a view things. It seems like alot of people are speaking from a solo or 1vX stand point and not group. Either way I still believe its well balanced but in groups sorcs are key.

naturn

Dragon Knight is the dominant class in PvP

WRX wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

So I've avoided this for awhile, but I have to give my input.

"Sorcs are incredible. Have more shields than most anyone can deal with" - Sorcs can easily walk around with 3k+ shields, no class gets close to that.

"extremely high DPS thanks to crit surge (pretty sure thats the class ability)"- You can find room on your bar for crit surge and stack spell power still. Then you have both soft capped, and can have a destro/restro which makes heals etc much stronger.

"survivability is through the roof with streak"- Idk how your streak costs so much. But you should be able to streak 3-4x that.

Again I'm not saying DK's got the short end of the stick, I am saying it is currently well balanced and we are really only the best at a view things. It seems like alot of people are speaking from a solo or 1vX stand point and not group. Either way I still believe its well balanced but in groups sorcs are key.

I assume you are talking about something from your image of a fantasy sorc, but not reality. You can have some of these things but not all at once. 10 slots is all you get to play with at one time. I would love to see your action bars with all of these skills as you imply. I really want to see this ultimate sorc build so I can use it. Please show us. I am sure a lot of sorcs want to see it.

If you put shields on the bar, where are you going to put all of the great spells for streak and dps? Please don't leave out magic regeneration too.

Sorcs are known for not having the highest dps especially in pvp where most sorcs need to run with impenetrable on armor instead of crit. My guess is you have never played a sorc.

LOL survivability is through the roof with streak?? Streak barely gets sorcs out of melee range (a quick charge and 2 hits can take the sorc out pretty fast) and since the sorc normally has to cast streak many times to get out of range and each time with less than 4 second intervals, the magic cost is huge. Perhaps you are thinking of bolt escape. Streak is mostly used to escape from melee, perhaps to stun for a very short time, or build ultimats.

ToRelax

WRX wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

So I've avoided this for awhile, but I have to give my input.

DK's are far from overpowered. We are not the best tanks, not the best dps, not the best healers. We really have two things working for us, reflect and an independent self heal. All classes other than templar have better resource management, and a good templar does it better too. Talons are strong, but poor dps and no better of a CC than Sorcs have.

Here is my view:

NB's and Sorcs are probably the two best for PVP. NB's are excellent tanks, and the only class than can destroy you meanwhile doing 1200 HPS. Not to mention veil, execute, DoT's, etc.

Sorcs are incredible. Have more shields than most anyone can deal with, can CC entire groups with multiple skills (can literally permaCC), survivability is through the roof with streak, and extremely high DPS thanks to crit surge (pretty sure thats the class ability). Oh and please dont let me forget absorption field. That is by far the strongest skill in PvP and nothing comes close. Heals magicka and health for everyone inside by 15% per ground effect absorbed (at time of cast or after). That includes most ultis, blockade, etc.

Templars are very strong too, just not alot of magicka sustain so spell symm is nice (If you really want fun, use spell sym then mist form. HINT HINT). However they are by far the best healers, even though Ive seen NB's bring the same HPS. They are also the only other class (similar to NB's) that can be defensive and still do great DPS with blazing shield. Shards give tons of resources, and repentance is even better.

From my experience all classes are very balanced, and I see no changes need. I originally voted Sorcs, and while I still feel they are the strongest, they aren't dominant, they just have the most prominent effect in PvP.

Curious to see replies.

Just want to comment on a few things ....

"All classes other than templar have better resource management" - This is a joke, right? DKs set up for 1vX have some of the best resource management out there with Battle Roar. DK blows away Sorc and Templar in resource management. I can't comment on NB personally so I will not. The combination of battle roar passive, helping hands passive, and green dragon blood set up even magicka focused DKs to always have a good supply of stamina, which is vital in PVP. Sorcs just have Dark Conversion, which only really synergizes with a keep away bolt escape build.

"Talons are strong but poor dps and no better of a CC than Sorcs have" - This is another joke. Now, I will admit I can not speak from a large organized guild group. Maybe Encase really is the *** in groups because of the added range. But outside of large organized guild groups, Encase is pretty *** poor. It costs a ton of magicka and does even worse DPS than Talons 'poor dps' if morphed for it, and the other morph (which is only more useful for extending the crit boost passive) is useless because unless you're already stacking crit for pvp (stupid) you will still not crit even with it. Also, while Encase range can be seen as a bonus, do not underestimate the power of a self centered AOE talons which can hit everyone ganging up on you. Please don't forget Talons, is a dot and therefore is much better at generating ultimate as well. I don't want to assume I'm the authority on what skills everyone uses, but it seems almost all DKs use Talons while a very very low % of Sorcs are using Encase.

"Sorcs are incredible. Have more shields than most anyone can deal with" - uuhh DK has the same amount of shields and theirs is just about as powerful and also helps out their entire group.

"survivability is through the roof with streak" - Streak and Ball of Lightning are nice, but saying survivability is through the roof is an exaggeration. For starters, set up as magicka/light armor based, my second streak/BoL is costing around 420 magicka or so and just one streak isn't going to get you much of anywhere. Set up as a stamina/medium(heavy) armor based Sorc, I can streak all of two times from max magicka. Ball of Lightning also has a very buggy absorb rate and unlike Reflective Scale, it doesn't work against non-spell projectiles.

"extremely high DPS thanks to crit surge (pretty sure thats the class ability)" - Crit surge is only helping crushing shock and elemental ring and wall of elements. Crushing Shock can be good. I personally don't use it as I prefer to stack up a bit of spell dmg and therefore focus on class skills for doing dmg and can ignore Crit Surge entirely as weapon dmg gives me nothing and you will not crit anyone who has a proper PVP armor loadout. Elemental RIng and wall fo elemets is really only something I will use if I'm running with an organized group.


Anyways ... I can certainly understand someone coming here and saying classes are balanced, but to try and make it sound like other classes have it better than DKs leads me to believe your post was nothing but a troll attempt. In that case, good job.

Lol no, not a troll. I am assuming you play on EU because what you are describing is not particularly relevant in NA group play.

"All classes other than templar have better resource management"- This is true in many occasions.
-Unholy Knowledge reduces all stamina and magicka abilities by 5%.
-Blood Magic- Heals player 5% health when hitting an enemy with a dark magic skill. This combined with restraining prison is quite nice for 1vX, solo, group play, etc.
-Absorption field we all know is amazing.
-Sets can be combined with overload to make you have essentially infinite HP.
-Several other things that are instant cast and give up to 50% cost reduction.

"Talons are strong but poor dps and no better of a CC than sorcs have"- Restraining prison or shattering prison is much better than talons. As mentioned above, you can easily gain 30% health back from on cast, and get ulti. Streak through, more ulti. And if you are surrounded as a sorc then I suppose that's a player issue. plus 15M range is just huge and inside of keeps, using it down stairs is very good.

"Sorcs are incredible. Have more shields than most anyone can deal with" - Sorcs can easily walk around with 3k+ shields, no class gets close to that.

"extremely high DPS thanks to crit surge (pretty sure thats the class ability)"- You can find room on your bar for crit surge and stack spell power still. Then you have both soft capped, and can have a destro/restro which makes heals etc much stronger.

"survivability is through the roof with streak"- Idk how your streak costs so much. But you should be able to streak 3-4x that.

Again I'm not saying DK's got the short end of the stick, I am saying it is currently well balanced and we are really only the best at a view things. It seems like alot of people are speaking from a solo or 1vX stand point and not group. Either way I still believe its well balanced but in groups sorcs are key.

I am at least playing on EU.

So...
- Unholy knowledge is a synergy with staffs and mage's guild - the sorc has no more stamina management, lacks with other weapon abilities anyway because of that and his class abilities take the passive into account of course (in theory it's a synergy with undaunted, vampire and soul magic, they just don't have good magicka skills anyway).
- Blood magic - makes Absorption field stronger. Encase is really expensive and does not heal you much. It's damage if morphed that way is very low and the other morph may work against a noob who is the first time in Cyrodiil (exaggerating, of course - an experienced player won't care much for the snare though).
- Absorption field is good in groups or anything that has to do with NPCs. You can use it as a "Oh ***"-button in 1vX as well, I prefer overload to get a slot for mage light.
- Medium armor sucks for sorcerers.
- Crystal fragments are flying damn low, literally shouting out "Dodge me!" and can be reflected. You were not referring to the use of Spell symmetry in PvP i hope.

Talons > Encase : lower cost, DoT, instant damage.

DKs can use their own class shield and all others available to sorcs.
Templars have Blazing shield and usually pretty much spam it - so they can do damage with all their shield power, using others would be a waste.
Only NB has no class shield.

Surge is amazing, impenetrable negates one morph vs good players. Yes, sorcs have synergies with staffs.

Streak is more expensive within 4 seconds after the last cast. He said 2nd cast. That cost is realistic, mine should be something like it. Streak is indeed pretty much a must have for any magicka sorc trying to survive. Because you are dead in melee (again, talking about serious PvPers as opponents...).

So, sorcs are important in groups for... negate. And they are important because negate exists for them at all, not because they can negate better than anyone else. Yes, sorcs are a key, I totally agree there...

Erock25

Dragon Knight is the dominant class in PvP

WRX wrote: »

"All classes other than templar have better resource management"- This is true in many occasions.
-Unholy Knowledge reduces all stamina and magicka abilities by 5%.
-Blood Magic- Heals player 5% health when hitting an enemy with a dark magic skill. This combined with restraining prison is quite nice for 1vX, solo, group play, etc.
-Absorption field we all know is amazing.
-Sets can be combined with overload to make you have essentially infinite HP.
-Several other things that are instant cast and give up to 50% cost reduction.

- Sure 5% is nice but that isn't resource management. Restoring 800+ of stamina/magicka/hp every 20 seconds is resource management. I'd kill for a way to get any stamina back.
- Blood magic only activates once per cast of Restraining Prison. You can take your 150 HP heal and shove it.
- Absorption field is awesome, but again it is best served in large group encounters. Zerg meets zerg can easily come down to who times their Negates the best.
- What sets make overload give you infinite HP? Are you suggesting we use a channeled heavy attack in PVP?
- Dude what? Sorc having Crystal Frag proc for 50% less magicka cost doesn't automatically mean we have good resource management.

WRX wrote: »

"Talons are strong but poor dps and no better of a CC than sorcs have"- Restraining prison or shattering prison is much better than talons. As mentioned above, you can easily gain 30% health back from on cast, and get ulti. Streak through, more ulti. And if you are surrounded as a sorc then I suppose that's a player issue. plus 15M range is just huge and inside of keeps, using it down stairs is very good.

-No YOU DO NOT GAIN 30% health back!
-Is a DK really saying DK is not overpowered because other classes can generate ultimate? I really think a 1vX set up DK has the best ultimate generation in the game.
-How many Sorc have Encase on their bar in PVP? 10%? How many DK have Talons on their bar? 70%? I guarantee you if you gave Sorc Talons, it would be on 70% of our bars as well. You just look foolish trying to argue Encase>Talons.

WRX wrote: »

"Sorcs are incredible. Have more shields than most anyone can deal with" - Sorcs can easily walk around with 3k+ shields, no class gets close to that.

-I have not thoroughly tested this but my understanding was Hardened Ward maxes out around 1k and Obsidian Shield maxes out around 850. Therefore DK can get to 2.85k compared to sorc 3k ..... I'd call that close. It is just hilarious to me that Hardened Ward is a MUST HAVE for Sorc while Obsidian Shield isn't used nearly as much for DK while they are basically the SAME spell besides the fact that Hardened Ward is self only and Obsidian is group wide.

WRX wrote: »

"extremely high DPS thanks to crit surge (pretty sure thats the class ability)"- You can find room on your bar for crit surge and stack spell power still. Then you have both soft capped, and can have a destro/restro which makes heals etc much stronger.

-I know how Crit surge works, thanks.... but sorry, Sorc does not have insane DPS. Even if they did, just saying a class has insane dps doesn't mean crap in a thread talking about general class balance in PVP. It is the sum of all parts, and for some reason you are blind to the fact that DK's sum adds up to more than the other classes, even with this ridiculous poll % split staring you in the face.

WRX wrote: »

"survivability is through the roof with streak"- Idk how your streak costs so much. But you should be able to streak 3-4x that.

Again I'm not saying DK's got the short end of the stick, I am saying it is currently well balanced and we are really only the best at a view things. It seems like alot of people are speaking from a solo or 1vX stand point and not group. Either way I still believe its well balanced but in groups sorcs are key.

Good for you. I and a resounding majority who chose to take this poll disagree with you.

JackDaniell

Templar is the dominant class in PvP

DK's seem to have the advantage because they have the best (up to more than 2x) recourse management in PvP when hitting many target with DOT's, AOE and other ult generating skills. But they have that advantage limited to only that time that they can build that ult. A generally considered good DK build is one that can use the resource return from battle roar to get another battle roar, and so on until everything around them is dead.

Considering 1vX this is where the top players in the game will be able to do things on a DK that is not possible on any other class. If you are playing a good sustainable PvP build you have around 8700 (5400 magicka, 2100 stamina, 1200 health) total recourse return each minute before potions assuming your spec is magicka. Potion's have a value of about 2400 (700 stam, 700 mag, 1000 health) total recourse return every 30 seconds.

Battle Roar the DK passive returns 600 health, magicka, and stamina + 0.7x the cost of the ultimate. Standard giving back 740 stamina, magicka and health at a cost of 200 ult, so a total of 2220 resources standard. So if a DK is in a situation where they can use an ult every 10 seconds or so the recourse return is = to the full effects of 1 tri pot every ultimate . Using 6 ults in 1 min = 6 x 2220 = 13320 total resources returned in that minute. This would double the incoming resources for that DK during that minute (this is equal to a recovery value of about 300 health/stamina/magicka every 2 seconds). But that is limited to those situations.

Anyhow, regardless of how balanced/imbalanced this may be, this is the reason that DK's are perceived as the strongest class, but when they are in a 1v1 they do not seem stronger than other classes. Regarding battle roar, I think some kind of diminishing return would even out those situations while not destroying the passive.

Infact I think that every DK in PvP should run an ult generating build. If you havent tried it I recommend you do because it is the most powerful for med - large scale PvP while still being incredibly effective at a 1 v 1 if you set aside a couple skills for it.

Spangla

Dragon Knight is the dominant class in PvP

WRX wrote: »

Spangla wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

So I've avoided this for awhile, but I have to give my input.

DK's are far from overpowered. We are not the best tanks, not the best dps, not the best healers. We really have two things working for us, reflect and an independent self heal. All classes other than templar have better resource management, and a good templar does it better too. Talons are strong, but poor dps and no better of a CC than Sorcs have.

Here is my view:

NB's and Sorcs are probably the two best for PVP. NB's are excellent tanks, and the only class than can destroy you meanwhile doing 1200 HPS. Not to mention veil, execute, DoT's, etc.

Sorcs are incredible. Have more shields than most anyone can deal with, can CC entire groups with multiple skills (can literally permaCC), survivability is through the roof with streak, and extremely high DPS thanks to crit surge (pretty sure thats the class ability). Oh and please dont let me forget absorption field. That is by far the strongest skill in PvP and nothing comes close. Heals magicka and health for everyone inside by 15% per ground effect absorbed (at time of cast or after). That includes most ultis, blockade, etc.

Templars are very strong too, just not alot of magicka sustain so spell symm is nice (If you really want fun, use spell sym then mist form. HINT HINT). However they are by far the best healers, even though Ive seen NB's bring the same HPS. They are also the only other class (similar to NB's) that can be defensive and still do great DPS with blazing shield. Shards give tons of resources, and repentance is even better.

From my experience all classes are very balanced, and I see no changes need. I originally voted Sorcs, and while I still feel they are the strongest, they aren't dominant, they just have the most prominent effect in PvP.

Curious to see replies.

Um - but NB doesn't have the best dps.... DK can hold a higher dps even without an execute move.....

It is also the only class that is naturally powerful against vampires which is something else that should be taken into account.

Not entirely sure if a sorc can even kill a top dk 1v1. Not a noob dk a top dk. How do they do it when all their powerful attacks get reflected?

Sure they can run away but this doesnt help when the dk is standing on the keep flag.

Not sure what you are referring? PvE or PvP? Regardless, PvP isn't all about DPS, and largely about helping those around you. Fire damage is nice but still overall dps from class abilities is much less than the other dps classes.

And I know plenty of sorcs that will destroy top dk's. Dk's really struggle with Sorcs 1v1.

Yes but the sorc has to spec a build that is comlpetely useless when doing actual pvp....

I know dueling 1 v1 sorc is good but. If i see 6 sorc's standing on he back flag.. not really that bothered. 6 dk's with standards and talons and they could literally whipe 30 stupid randoms.

Qolt wrote: »

I remember Legendary Mage said: "Sorcs have no chances against perma-block DK".

I remember this too - quite funny um *facepalm

Dueling - has no effect on campaign really. Very rarely get a 1v1 that wasnt situational and influenced by who has the first hit or who had more ult.

Anyway not here to argue, just pointing out the obvious.

DK is dominant

Joy_Division

There is no dominant class in PvP

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Poll results speak for themselves.

You are right.

They tell me the majority of players on this form does not know what the word "dominant" means. Really, look it up. I don't care how much your one-trick pony build struggles against DKs, the reality of the situation is that they do NOT "dominate" Cyrodiil.

Gaettusk

A dominant class is situational i.e. DKs are good against in mass melees, Sorcerers are good at kiting/gank, Nightblades are only good at ganking, Templars are the best healers.

I agree with my poll choice, except NBs are good for more than ganking. If built right, a NB can be as annoying as a 1vX DK build.

Also, to everyone whining about DKs being "dominant" because you get killed by them all the time. L2 counter the 1vX builds, a.k.a. don't stand in their ult generating ***. Or if that's too much of rocket science for you, then build your bars better. Inb4 someone who spends 2 hrs/week pvping whining about a DK being OP

Sanct16

A dominant class is situational i.e. DKs are good against in mass melees, Sorcerers are good at kiting/gank, Nightblades are only good at ganking, Templars are the best healers.

@JackDaniell, true. Battle Roar gives back a nice amount of resources and have you *** donating you ultimare by shooting your reflect you wont run out of resources. You have to take into account that DK are more expenaive than other classes skills. Talons and Deep Breath cost 332 magicka with full light. Sorcerors volatile familiar costs around 150 and streak around 200. Moreover Absorption Field gives you and everyone 100% Magicka and Health for everyone in it. Templar Blazing Shield and other aoes are around 230 aswell. Templars are mssing magicka regen way but repentance will give loads of stamina for everyone in battle. Nightblades havy siphoning attacks giving many resources.

Sure, Battle Roar is great but other classes have cheaper skills and ways to maintain reaources too. Sorc and Temp support even the group with resources. For pure 1vX the dk might be best but you will barely ever be able to wipe a group as usually some people in the group have a brain. To be effective you need a group and thats why class balance is perfectly fine imo. Especially as the 1vX differences between classes aren't this big after all.

Sry for typos. Writing on smartphone atm.

Erock25

Dragon Knight is the dominant class in PvP

Sanct16 wrote: »

@JackDaniell, true. Battle Roar gives back a nice amount of resources and have you *** donating you ultimare by shooting your reflect you wont run out of resources. You have to take into account that DK are more expenaive than other classes skills. Talons and Deep Breath cost 332 magicka with full light. Sorcerors volatile familiar costs around 150 and streak around 200. Moreover Absorption Field gives you and everyone 100% Magicka and Health for everyone in it. Templar Blazing Shield and other aoes are around 230 aswell. Templars are mssing magicka regen way but repentance will give loads of stamina for everyone in battle. Nightblades havy siphoning attacks giving many resources.

Sure, Battle Roar is great but other classes have cheaper skills and ways to maintain reaources too. Sorc and Temp support even the group with resources. For pure 1vX the dk might be best but you will barely ever be able to wipe a group as usually some people in the group have a brain. To be effective you need a group and thats why class balance is perfectly fine imo. Especially as the 1vX differences between classes aren't this big after all.

Sry for typos. Writing on smartphone atm.

I just don't understand how anyone writes posts like these with a straight face. Everyone has seen the 1vX DK videos. Everyone has a DK and knows about its sustain. If your retort to DK's Battle Roar being very very powerful is that "Sorcerors volatile familiar costs around 150 and streak around 200" then you are hopeless. By the way it isn't often that Absorption Field clears 7 effects (15% per effect X 7 = 105%) so no need to use extreme scenarios as your 'proof'. Name one other skill that restores all three resource pools. It is a PASSIVE at that and a passive that is tied to the activation of super powerful abilities that in turn allow you to use these super powerful abilities more often. If battle roar took up a slot on your active bar people would still use it. Hell, if it took up a slot on both bars people would still use it. If it was 50% as effective, took up a slot on both bars, and was a 0.5 second cast (only able to activate once per ultimate) PEOPLE WOULD STILL USE IT. No need to tie the most powerful passive in the game to the activation of the most powerful abilities.

ToRelax

Erock25 wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

@JackDaniell, true. Battle Roar gives back a nice amount of resources and have you *** donating you ultimare by shooting your reflect you wont run out of resources. You have to take into account that DK are more expenaive than other classes skills. Talons and Deep Breath cost 332 magicka with full light. Sorcerors volatile familiar costs around 150 and streak around 200. Moreover Absorption Field gives you and everyone 100% Magicka and Health for everyone in it. Templar Blazing Shield and other aoes are around 230 aswell. Templars are mssing magicka regen way but repentance will give loads of stamina for everyone in battle. Nightblades havy siphoning attacks giving many resources.

Sure, Battle Roar is great but other classes have cheaper skills and ways to maintain reaources too. Sorc and Temp support even the group with resources. For pure 1vX the dk might be best but you will barely ever be able to wipe a group as usually some people in the group have a brain. To be effective you need a group and thats why class balance is perfectly fine imo. Especially as the 1vX differences between classes aren't this big after all.

Sry for typos. Writing on smartphone atm.

I just don't understand how anyone writes posts like these with a straight face. Everyone has seen the 1vX DK videos. Everyone has a DK and knows about its sustain. If your retort to DK's Battle Roar being very very powerful is that "Sorcerors volatile familiar costs around 150 and streak around 200" then you are hopeless. By the way it isn't often that Absorption Field clears 7 effects (15% per effect X 7 = 105%) so no need to use extreme scenarios as your 'proof'. Name one other skill that restores all three resource pools. It is a PASSIVE at that and a passive that is tied to the activation of super powerful abilities that in turn allow you to use these super powerful abilities more often. If battle roar took up a slot on your active bar people would still use it. Hell, if it took up a slot on both bars people would still use it. If it was 50% as effective, took up a slot on both bars, and was a 0.5 second cast (only able to activate once per ultimate) PEOPLE WOULD STILL USE IT. No need to tie the most powerful passive in the game to the activation of the most powerful abilities.

This ^. Additional, volatile familiar is completely bugged out atm and streak is 400+ magicka on the next cast ^^.

Juraigr

Erock25 wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

@JackDaniell, true. Battle Roar gives back a nice amount of resources and have you *** donating you ultimare by shooting your reflect you wont run out of resources. You have to take into account that DK are more expenaive than other classes skills. Talons and Deep Breath cost 332 magicka with full light. Sorcerors volatile familiar costs around 150 and streak around 200. Moreover Absorption Field gives you and everyone 100% Magicka and Health for everyone in it. Templar Blazing Shield and other aoes are around 230 aswell. Templars are mssing magicka regen way but repentance will give loads of stamina for everyone in battle. Nightblades havy siphoning attacks giving many resources.

Sure, Battle Roar is great but other classes have cheaper skills and ways to maintain reaources too. Sorc and Temp support even the group with resources. For pure 1vX the dk might be best but you will barely ever be able to wipe a group as usually some people in the group have a brain. To be effective you need a group and thats why class balance is perfectly fine imo. Especially as the 1vX differences between classes aren't this big after all.

Sry for typos. Writing on smartphone atm.

I just don't understand how anyone writes posts like these with a straight face. Everyone has seen the 1vX DK videos. Everyone has a DK and knows about its sustain. If your retort to DK's Battle Roar being very very powerful is that "Sorcerors volatile familiar costs around 150 and streak around 200" then you are hopeless. By the way it isn't often that Absorption Field clears 7 effects (15% per effect X 7 = 105%) so no need to use extreme scenarios as your 'proof'. Name one other skill that restores all three resource pools. It is a PASSIVE at that and a passive that is tied to the activation of super powerful abilities that in turn allow you to use these super powerful abilities more often. If battle roar took up a slot on your active bar people would still use it. Hell, if it took up a slot on both bars people would still use it. If it was 50% as effective, took up a slot on both bars, and was a 0.5 second cast (only able to activate once per ultimate) PEOPLE WOULD STILL USE IT. No need to tie the most powerful passive in the game to the activation of the most powerful abilities.

Why do u complain about a passive that gets no use till ulti gets activated

Samadhi

WRX wrote: »

...NB's are excellent tanks, and the only class than can destroy you meanwhile doing 1200 HPS. Not to mention veil, execute, DoT's, etc.
...

Imagine how OP a Nightblade would be if they had Reflective Scales, instead of just having to back out of their AoE and use ranged skills once their healing stops being effective from lack of targets that scale the heal value up.
Imagine if Nightblade could reflect lethal arrow spam.

Terrifying.

s7732425ub17_ESO

A dominant class is situational i.e. DKs are good against in mass melees, Sorcerers are good at kiting/gank, Nightblades are only good at ganking, Templars are the best healers.

What a lot of people don't realize is that resource management is HUGE. Why is DK OP? Because of the Battle Roar passive. Every 15 seconds a DK can instantly restore half of its resources. This is extremely, extremely overpowered.

As a Sorc, I generally die because I run out of stamina. If I could instantly restore 800 stamina every 15 seconds, that would give me 2 more break frees and a roll dodge. A DK gets this for free, but not other classes.

If I used my exact same gear on my DK, I would have the same magica sustain as my Sorc, so that's equal.

Sorc has NO self healing abilities in PVP (No real PVPer is going to run a crit build with crit surge. It only works on noobs that will die quickly anyways). DK? Insta 30%+ health restore with the hit of a key, and it gets a huge boost to hp/stam recovery. What? Seriously?

AltusVenifus

Dragon Knight is the dominant class in PvP

I would say 40-50% of the players in cyrodill right now are DKs. Almost 60% of this poll says they are OP. This should be address in the next state of the game by the devs. The numbers are just too high to be healthy for long term PVP success.

Joy_Division

There is no dominant class in PvP

Erock25 wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

@JackDaniell, true. Battle Roar gives back a nice amount of resources and have you *** donating you ultimare by shooting your reflect you wont run out of resources. You have to take into account that DK are more expenaive than other classes skills. Talons and Deep Breath cost 332 magicka with full light. Sorcerors volatile familiar costs around 150 and streak around 200. Moreover Absorption Field gives you and everyone 100% Magicka and Health for everyone in it. Templar Blazing Shield and other aoes are around 230 aswell. Templars are mssing magicka regen way but repentance will give loads of stamina for everyone in battle. Nightblades havy siphoning attacks giving many resources.

Sure, Battle Roar is great but other classes have cheaper skills and ways to maintain reaources too. Sorc and Temp support even the group with resources. For pure 1vX the dk might be best but you will barely ever be able to wipe a group as usually some people in the group have a brain. To be effective you need a group and thats why class balance is perfectly fine imo. Especially as the 1vX differences between classes aren't this big after all.

Sry for typos. Writing on smartphone atm.

I just don't understand how anyone writes posts like these with a straight face. Everyone has seen the 1vX DK videos. Everyone has a DK and knows about its sustain. If your retort to DK's Battle Roar being very very powerful is that "Sorcerors volatile familiar costs around 150 and streak around 200" then you are hopeless. By the way it isn't often that Absorption Field clears 7 effects (15% per effect X 7 = 105%) so no need to use extreme scenarios as your 'proof'. Name one other skill that restores all three resource pools. It is a PASSIVE at that and a passive that is tied to the activation of super powerful abilities that in turn allow you to use these super powerful abilities more often. If battle roar took up a slot on your active bar people would still use it. Hell, if it took up a slot on both bars people would still use it. If it was 50% as effective, took up a slot on both bars, and was a 0.5 second cast (only able to activate once per ultimate) PEOPLE WOULD STILL USE IT. No need to tie the most powerful passive in the game to the activation of the most powerful abilities.

We write posts like these with a straight face because we do not grossly exaggerate the effectiveness of a passive that only shines in a specific context: fighting tons of trash mobs or morons.

If you are in a real fight that actually matters - a boss in PvE or against a competent player in PvP, you are lucky to even use that passive but once and you will need it because that passive was designed to compensate for a DKs otherwise pisspoor magicka sustain.

And the only time I can think of where I would slot that passive on my bar is in the veteran Darkshade Caverns fight where you you have to fight the horde of dwemer automatons. You need to remember, us DKs have many OP skills folks whine about like Scales, talons, GDB, etc., and we all use other OP skills that fit so well with our class like invasion, impulse, et al., that there would be no room for Battle Roar on our bars...

autoexec

Dragon Knight is the dominant class in PvP

I love how all DK's that post here suddenly look like super *** players that can't play their class just to defend it.

Battle roar only usefull vs trash mobs or moron's in PVP? Lol!

Kwas

Dragon Knight is the dominant class in PvP

I still remember when Sorcs used to be moar than just negate monkeys ...

Pixysticks

Dragon Knight is the dominant class in PvP

Kwas wrote: »

I still remember when Sorcs used to be moar than just negate monkeys ...

R.I.P.

Pixysticks

Dragon Knight is the dominant class in PvP

WRX wrote: »

Talons are strong but poor dps and no better of a CC than sorcs have"- Restraining prison or shattering prison is much better than talons. As mentioned above, you can easily gain 30% health back from on cast, and get ulti. Streak through, more ulti. And if you are surrounded as a sorc then I suppose that's a player issue. plus 15M range is just huge and inside of keeps, using it down stairs is very good.

You can't heal more than once from AOE from blood magic; it's 5% per cast instead of 30%. If it were per hit instead of per cast it would be a lot better talent.

naturn

Dragon Knight is the dominant class in PvP

Kwas wrote: »

I still remember when Sorcs used to be moar than just negate monkeys ...

I hear ya :-(

Lava_Croft

Dragon Knight is the dominant class in PvP

Reading this thread, it really sounds like ZOS should buff those poor DK's.

NordJitsu

Dragon Knight is the dominant class in PvP

The percentages of the poll accurately reflect the current ranking of the classes for PvP.

1. DK
2. NB
3. Templar
4. Sorc

At launch it was:

1. DK
2. Sorc
3. Templar
4. NB

With all the balance changes they've made they seem to be unwilling to look at the fundamental issues with DKs. What they should have done post launch was balance DKs down to Sorcs and brought NBs and Temps up to Sorc. Instead the buffed Templar and NB up to launch-Sorc, but not enough to match DK, and massively nerfed Sorcs.

The result is a lot of shuffling that affected everyone but DKs.

When you have a class that can make itself impervious to ranged attacks, has the best self-heal in the game, the best CC in the game, and the strongest direct damage skills, and the best passives....you have a problem.

They were warned repeatedly about the issue during the Beta. They chose to listen only to the DKs (since those are the only players who properly understand that balance is them not having to try as hard as everyone else.)

Sanct16

A dominant class is situational i.e. DKs are good against in mass melees, Sorcerers are good at kiting/gank, Nightblades are only good at ganking, Templars are the best healers.

For Thornblade EU the ranking results very extremly close and every class has around 25 of the top 100. Last time i checked Templars were the largest group.
Moreover the #100 dk did have more AP than any other class' #100.

If DKs would really be 40-50 % of the population there should be statiscally 40-50 DKs in the leaderboard, no?

Spangla

Dragon Knight is the dominant class in PvP

i think nb sorc and temp r acutally quite nicely balanced,

Spangla

Dragon Knight is the dominant class in PvP

Joy_Division wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Poll results speak for themselves.

You are right.

They tell me the majority of players on this form does not know what the word "dominant" means. Really, look it up. I don't care how much your one-trick pony build struggles against DKs, the reality of the situation is that they do NOT "dominate" Cyrodiil.

Yea keep telling yourself that and praying your dk stays dominant

Spangla

Dragon Knight is the dominant class in PvP

A dominant class is situational i.e. DKs are good against in mass melees, Sorcerers are good at kiting/gank, Nightblades are only good at ganking, Templars are the best healers.

This should say.

Dk's are good against mass melees and mass ranged. oh crap that's everything.

Maulkin

A dominant class is situational i.e. DKs are good against in mass melees, Sorcerers are good at kiting/gank, Nightblades are only good at ganking, Templars are the best healers.

Spangla wrote: »

A dominant class is situational i.e. DKs are good against in mass melees, Sorcerers are good at kiting/gank, Nightblades are only good at ganking, Templars are the best healers.

This should say.

Dk's are good against mass melees and mass ranged. oh crap that's everything.

Lol

Lava_Croft

Dragon Knight is the dominant class in PvP

Another funny way to test which is the dominant class in PvP is to see how fast you can complete the 'Kill 20 [insert class]' quests.

Ignoring the 'Kill 20 players' quest, the 'Kill 20 Dragon Knights' quest is always the one that is completed the fastest for me.

So many Dragon Knights.

Maulkin

A dominant class is situational i.e. DKs are good against in mass melees, Sorcerers are good at kiting/gank, Nightblades are only good at ganking, Templars are the best healers.

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Another funny way to test which is the dominant class in PvP is to see how fast you can complete the 'Kill 20 [insert class]' quests.

Ignoring the 'Kill 20 players' quest, the 'Kill 20 Dragon Knights' quest is always the one that is completed the fastest for me.

So many Dragon Knights.

Well you don't actually know if there are more of them. They also can give the impression of being more as they usually lead the line and come first.

It's entirely possible that you fill that quest faster because they die to easily. Moar buffs to the DKs!