In case anyone is wondering why AoE Caps are being removed..Here is the video

Ifthir_ESO

Lfehova wrote: »

The reason the server goofs up like it does when tons of people are spamming skills in one area, is the calculations of which 6 people the skill is going to hit.

Single best summary you can have posted.

Xsorus

Cherryblossom wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

How have you not been laughed off the forum yet?

You realize we have countless games that show this to be the exact opposite?

With no AOE cap in place the larger group will not always win..It'll be which ever group gets the first strike usually.

O my, a group of 11 people can kill a group of 24 because they cast the same spell at the exact time, it's unlikely they will as they will probably have a least 2 healers so dropping to this to 9 attacking. They are also unlikely to cast all at the same time but be staggered. Where as the group of 24 will have about 5 healers and while their attacks will also be staggered they are more likely to have more people casting at the same time and also have more heals!

Currently I have been in PVP with a group of normally about12 and we successfully wipe much larger Zergs sometime 3 times the size, due to better tactics. Currently IMO removing the AOE Cap or adding diminishing returns favours the Larger Groups.
I fully understand the issue of the random nature of the current AOE damage distribution, but I do not believe removing the AOE Cap will solve the Large Zerg issue

And truly what games have 50 a side battles?

I will assume you were laughing at yourself!

You realize before the nerf to some of the bigger AoE's in the game we were wiping groups of 24 with 6 people right? That's with 1-2 Healers in the group as well. A group of 8 rushing in will easily wipe 24 people with little issue. We did this by waiting till they stacked in an area while we were stealthed to the side.You're also not wiping larger groups right now with your 12 with better tactics...You're wiping larger groups right now by running around abusing AoE caps so you take less damage while fighting a spread out zerg. If you fought a Zerg using that very same tactic they would win 100% of the time and there would be nothing you could do about it.

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO

@Cherryblossom‌
You may not believe it, but you did contradict yourself.
As someone else said, you can beat a larger spread out force by using the stacking as a group of 12 and win easily. It's the other side of the coin for this issue. Whoever uses stacking wins.

But a fight between two stacked forces only results in who has the most numbers.
As this is the optimal move, everyone should do it or be at a disadvantage, so as the meta game get's adopted by more and more of the population, the game ends up being more and more about numbers only.

As stacking is caused by the target cap, removing it means that the meta will switch to a more varied ecosystem of tactics. A very desirable situation where smaller groups only have an organic disadvantage against larger forces.
This is necessary for the game's health.

On your second comment, to use impulse in such a matter, you'll need to be bunched up pretty tightly. Which means those 10 guys will be in range for any other aoe in the game.
While they progress through a spread out group, maybe hitting 2 or 3 character at a time, having only a range of 8m, they'll provide a very easy target for the entire world which has access to 27m range + 3 to 6m radius aoes.
This is suicide.

You won't need oil to stop a large group as organically, they'lll have a higher player density and offer more targets for your aoes.
They'll always have more fire power, as it is now, but at least they won't have that mechanical invulnerability anymore.

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO

Rune_Relic wrote: »

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »

@Rune_Relic‌
Do you even read what people take time to type to you?
I addressed your answer in my post just above yours.

Even in the rare case where a group is stacked, the spike of one focus fire is inferior to the ongoing sustained activity of the stacking spam we have currently. The real killer is smart healing spamming, and the longer you survive, the more you spam it.
But this will be a rare case as most fights don't occur in choke points.
In a spread out formation you barely hit 4 targets which is less than the caps.
it will both remove most situations where you would spam, and make those that remain cost less than with caps.

Now on to your comment about ttk and camps:
I'm not sure you realize the survivability an individual in a stacking group has compared to what it should have. You either get wiped or you don't lose many members.
It's not just about ttk, but about attrition. If you have members respawning more regulary, then you increase the need for camps.
Removing the stacking also reduces by a lot the Ap gains of larger groups, which in the end also reduces their ability to maintain camps.
This is a two pronged indirect nerf to forward camps usage.

I read what you said. I just disagree with it. Simple as that.
That's why there was no point replying directly to you as we will just go around in circles.
We will have to agree to disagree.

1. This is not any other game. This is ESO with unique code. It is not WOW DAoC LoTRO GW2 so saying these games blah blah is pointless and a strawman. Even using BETA is irrelevant as the caps were in place...regardless of whether you believe this impacted on zergballs or not (conjecture). The customer base has also probably changed a great deal since then. Make a poll asking zergballers if they give a crap about the cap changes and prove your point.

2. No one has access to ESO source code to make an accurate assessment of the likely results. So saying this is how the code behaves and putting that forward as an argument is nothing more than a guess. Show me the ESO source code and I will listen.

3. No one knows how people will react in the future....you don't have a crystal ball and if you did I would be even less likely to listen. Time travel still isn't viable yet either.

4. You put out as fact your personal opinion when it is not a given fact....merely an opinion that is plausible to you. Your own truth if you like.

And likewise I have put out my own version of what I think is likely to happen. You disagree... that's fine.

1) This here is exactly why history repeats itself. "My situation is not exactly the same, so I probably won't suffer the same consequences than those that came before".
Wrong. You don't invade Russia in winter just as you don't implement aoe target caps.
I don't often bring up other games, it isn't necessary because on paper analysis is sufficient. However, if we were in a situation where we didn't understand what was the cause of stacking, or why the target cap was causing it, past examples would be a valid argument for the removal.

The fact they were implemented all along and then the behavior of the player base changed over night when they got revealed should be a big tip off to you.
The game was technicaly the same, nearly nothing changed, yet just knowing about them changed how the game was played drastically.

Also, polls are pointless. This isn't a matter of opinion but of engineering. Game design is a well studied field and asking the player base for something as essential as this is a big mistake. And I'm saying this with the moral high ground that every polls I could see on the subject was in favor of the cap removal.
Maybe results would be different today, as most likely all those annoyed by the cap would have left the game, but from the general feeling of the forums, it doesn't seem to be the case.
Either way, it doesn't matter.

2) I don't have the timestamp, but it was admited during the guild summit , by the devs, that the lag was caused by the cap and that's partly why they were considering its removal.
But we didn't need this, you don't need to have access to the source code to know when a mechanic is a cause of lag. We know the feature, hence we know the algorithm, and algorithm costs can be calculated.

3) Yet, the current situation of the meta game was predicted the day the caps were revealed. Did those people have access to crystal balls?
Sarcasm aside, yes, you can't predict how a single individual will behave, but you can predict trends and how a population will behave. It's especially easy to predict when observing a decision where one of the choice is obviously the optimal one.
I suggest you read up on decision theory and behavioralism.

4) You can't freely dismiss facts as opinions whenever they don't suit the way you chose to view the world.
If you care more about your ego than being correct, then it is your right, but don't expect people to respect your choice.

Here is a list of facts:
- Performances wise, target caps are more costly than the alternative.
- Target caps are the cause of stacking.
- Stacking is an optimum strategy.
- Optimum strategies reduce the breadth and depth of games.
- They also lower the skill ceiling.
- In our case they create a barrier of entry
- All of the previous are destructive for a video game's long term appeal.

if you still believe any of these are opinions, then yes, it's probably best that you don't answer anymore.

Columba

Whatever it takes to drive these vile and pathetic monkey spammers from the game, they've ruined pvp.

krim

I really believe that no matter what happens you will always be at the bottom. I want something to change just so it can happen and i can laugh even harder.

Columba

congrats on being a pulse monkey. it takes real skills! Lol. I don't die to pulse chimps, so you are not on top, son.

Tyrrax

It's a total facepalm when someone comes at you with few or no others around and uses AoE spam.

Jitterbug

mm player collision

krim

Columba wrote: »

congrats on being a pulse monkey. it takes real skills! Lol. I don't die to pulse chimps, so you are not on top, son.

I will crush your sorry piece of trash.

Cherryblossom

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »

@Cherryblossom‌
You may not believe it, but you did contradict yourself.
As someone else said, you can beat a larger spread out force by using the stacking as a group of 12 and win easily. It's the other side of the coin for this issue. Whoever uses stacking wins.

But a fight between two stacked forces only results in who has the most numbers.
As this is the optimal move, everyone should do it or be at a disadvantage, so as the meta game get's adopted by more and more of the population, the game ends up being more and more about numbers only.

I never mentioned beating a larger spread out group, my argument was that with a smaller group it is possible for beat a larger stacked group.
I have done this on numerous times. So once again I have not contradicted myself

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO

Cherryblossom wrote: »

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »

@Cherryblossom‌
You may not believe it, but you did contradict yourself.
As someone else said, you can beat a larger spread out force by using the stacking as a group of 12 and win easily. It's the other side of the coin for this issue. Whoever uses stacking wins.

But a fight between two stacked forces only results in who has the most numbers.
As this is the optimal move, everyone should do it or be at a disadvantage, so as the meta game get's adopted by more and more of the population, the game ends up being more and more about numbers only.

I never mentioned beating a larger spread out group, my argument was that with a smaller group it is possible for beat a larger stacked group.
I have done this on numerous times. So once again I have not contradicted myself

You contradicted yourself by claiming disliking numbers games, then criticize having 10 people be able to kill a larger force.
That's where your two initial comments contradicted each other.
It was just one passing remark, had I known you'd stay stuck on that I would have avoided pointing it out.
Can we move on from that single sentence and read the rest of the post?

The target cap makes the game more about numbers than not having caps.
If my previous comment was too much of a wall of text, here is a short version:
The target cap adds an additional "mechanical" advantage that scales with numbers (passive dodge chance) in addition to the "organic" advantage of being more than the opponent (more tank/firepower/regen).
So naturally, removing the cap makes the game less dependant on numbers.

There will always be an advantage in being more, and that's good, but when fighting you'll be fighting your opponents rather than a game mechanic.

PlagueMonk

This just disgusts me.

A spammable skill should be WEAK, not this load of BS. So something like fire ring should start weak (but spammable) and the start to lose ground the more opponents it has to go through past 6-8.

I can say with confidence that fully 60-70% of my deaths in PvP come at the hands of Fire Ring spam, Bat spam, Talons and SoM. Those 4 skills right there need to be addressed.

- Fire Ring needs to have either a much longer recast timer or it's damage output cut considerably (maybe a diminishing effect for spamming?)
- Bat Spam needs to have it's casting cost increased by a factor of 2, reduce healing by 50% (not just the coming 30%). Maybe even removed altogether? Why should you be healed anyways?
- Talons needs to be made a hard CC so you can't keep applying it to people when they roll out of it
- SoM.....not sure. maybe it would be ok as is if the others were dealt with.


This is one reason why DKs are so OPed, they can have all 4 of these skills at the same time (and their ability set plays into Fire)

Just stupid how they designed this class to work so damn well with other things but then the NB's synergy got......jack.

Columba

krim wrote: »

Columba wrote: »

congrats on being a pulse monkey. it takes real skills! Lol. I don't die to pulse chimps, so you are not on top, son.

I will crush your sorry piece of trash.

Lol. Art thou vexxed, primate?

Rune_Relic

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »

@Rune_Relic‌
Do you even read what people take time to type to you?
I addressed your answer in my post just above yours.

Even in the rare case where a group is stacked, the spike of one focus fire is inferior to the ongoing sustained activity of the stacking spam we have currently. The real killer is smart healing spamming, and the longer you survive, the more you spam it.
But this will be a rare case as most fights don't occur in choke points.
In a spread out formation you barely hit 4 targets which is less than the caps.
it will both remove most situations where you would spam, and make those that remain cost less than with caps.

Now on to your comment about ttk and camps:
I'm not sure you realize the survivability an individual in a stacking group has compared to what it should have. You either get wiped or you don't lose many members.
It's not just about ttk, but about attrition. If you have members respawning more regulary, then you increase the need for camps.
Removing the stacking also reduces by a lot the Ap gains of larger groups, which in the end also reduces their ability to maintain camps.
This is a two pronged indirect nerf to forward camps usage.

I read what you said. I just disagree with it. Simple as that.
That's why there was no point replying directly to you as we will just go around in circles.
We will have to agree to disagree.

1. This is not any other game. This is ESO with unique code. It is not WOW DAoC LoTRO GW2 so saying these games blah blah is pointless and a strawman. Even using BETA is irrelevant as the caps were in place...regardless of whether you believe this impacted on zergballs or not (conjecture). The customer base has also probably changed a great deal since then. Make a poll asking zergballers if they give a crap about the cap changes and prove your point.

2. No one has access to ESO source code to make an accurate assessment of the likely results. So saying this is how the code behaves and putting that forward as an argument is nothing more than a guess. Show me the ESO source code and I will listen.

3. No one knows how people will react in the future....you don't have a crystal ball and if you did I would be even less likely to listen. Time travel still isn't viable yet either.

4. You put out as fact your personal opinion when it is not a given fact....merely an opinion that is plausible to you. Your own truth if you like.

And likewise I have put out my own version of what I think is likely to happen. You disagree... that's fine.

1) This here is exactly why history repeats itself. "My situation is not exactly the same, so I probably won't suffer the same consequences than those that came before".
Wrong. You don't invade Russia in winter just as you don't implement aoe target caps.
I don't often bring up other games, it isn't necessary because on paper analysis is sufficient. However, if we were in a situation where we didn't understand what was the cause of stacking, or why the target cap was causing it, past examples would be a valid argument for the removal.

The fact they were implemented all along and then the behavior of the player base changed over night when they got revealed should be a big tip off to you.
The game was technicaly the same, nearly nothing changed, yet just knowing about them changed how the game was played drastically.

Also, polls are pointless. This isn't a matter of opinion but of engineering. Game design is a well studied field and asking the player base for something as essential as this is a big mistake. And I'm saying this with the moral high ground that every polls I could see on the subject was in favor of the cap removal.
Maybe results would be different today, as most likely all those annoyed by the cap would have left the game, but from the general feeling of the forums, it doesn't seem to be the case.
Either way, it doesn't matter.

2) I don't have the timestamp, but it was admited during the guild summit , by the devs, that the lag was caused by the cap and that's partly why they were considering its removal.
But we didn't need this, you don't need to have access to the source code to know when a mechanic is a cause of lag. We know the feature, hence we know the algorithm, and algorithm costs can be calculated.

3) Yet, the current situation of the meta game was predicted the day the caps were revealed. Did those people have access to crystal balls?
Sarcasm aside, yes, you can't predict how a single individual will behave, but you can predict trends and how a population will behave. It's especially easy to predict when observing a decision where one of the choice is obviously the optimal one.
I suggest you read up on decision theory and behavioralism.

4) You can't freely dismiss facts as opinions whenever they don't suit the way you chose to view the world.
If you care more about your ego than being correct, then it is your right, but don't expect people to respect your choice.

Here is a list of facts:
- Performances wise, target caps are more costly than the alternative.
- Target caps are the cause of stacking.
- Stacking is an optimum strategy.
- Optimum strategies reduce the breadth and depth of games.
- They also lower the skill ceiling.
- In our case they create a barrier of entry
- All of the previous are destructive for a video game's long term appeal.

if you still believe any of these are opinions, then yes, it's probably best that you don't answer anymore.

Aoe cap is not the cause of stacking... oevrlapping heal radius and smart heals are.

The player action changed overnight because of the target cap meta ?
Perhaps the player action changed overnight as they are sheep and were told to by guild leaders ?

I am sorry but I think its best to ask the person thats stacks why they stack as its them that will stack. lol.

ZOS Admitted that aoe caused the lag ? Oh Really.
The last comment was actually on friday... the fix was the problem and the problem the fix.
Ever asked yourself why they dont simply remove the caps if its such a panacea in this game ?
Do you think they havent tested it and thought...wow this works! Rush that out.

I dismiss opinions as a viewpoint...like I said.
Your facts arent facts....however much you want them to be.
When the aoe caps are removed and what you said holds out....then it becomes a fact.
Note the difference. One is a projected mental model and one is real life.

Here is a list of facts:
- Performances wise, target caps are more costly than the alternative. [Do I process everyone online to see if they receive my damage ? Theres always a selection process]
- Target caps are the cause of stacking. [No. Common heal radius and smart heals are the "cause" of stacking]
- Stacking is an optimum strategy. [Amen. Did I argue against this anywhere ?]
- Optimum strategies reduce the breadth and depth of games. [When will people not use optimum strategies ? Strategic formations are used for exactly that]
- They also lower the skill ceiling. [So shield wall, archery line and infantry are all strategic situational strategies that lower the skill ceiling ?]
- In our case they create a barrier of entry [What? Eh?]
- All of the previous are destructive for a video game's long term appeal. [???]

My argument has always been on the lag issue not wether I like stacking or not so dont put words in my mouth and twist arguments.
1. People will stack because its the best way to heal.
2. People will always use the optimal tactical formation when discovered.
3. The other MMOs do not have smart heals, so the impact of removing AoE targets is not the same.
4. The indvidial damage of each AoE is not being increased (no processing change). The number of targets to process for each attack is..substantially increased.
5. Everyone of those extra attacks require processing that wasnt required before.
6. Selection time vs Damage update (including situational buffs) time is completely dependant on the code for both.

You say removing the cap will make people die quicker so not a problem.
I say removing the cap will increase the processing/lag exactly because you are killing them quicker and only by processing many more people in the same time.

Heavy lag for long time vs Massive lag for shorter time.

Aerrimus

Just make all AOE damage cost a percentage of Health and Magicka that increases when repeated within a couple seconds.

This would make AOE spammers easy kills and should lead to situational use.

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO

@Rune_Relic‌

People that stack stack because of the aoe cap.
Why do you think those guild leaders gave those orders?
They made it loud and clear on the forums and reddit and any vector of communication: "This will make us stack."
The players that know how to play chose to do this because it is the best move.

Healing/buffing is NOT an incentive to stack non stop.
There was no stacking before, yet there already was overlapping healing/buffs.

I addressed every single point of your post, but it turned out a wall of text. I left the most important out of it, but to get the complete picture, enter the rabbit hole:

Don't get fooled by the current meta. Healing seems very strong now because of the target cap. It has less to do, so it can handle the punishment. Also, you're already stacked so there is no organizational drawbacks.
If you look on at the numbers of healing abilities, they all have 27m range. The only one that has a small radius is grand healing and its morphs, but it also has the same range. Even pbaoe buffs are at 12m radius. So they don't require to actively stack to have "overlapping".
They also have less burst and less sustainability than damage abilities. Without the damage reduction provided by the target cap, for each resource spent, they heal less.
However, what they do have, is a larger radius than damage abilities.(smaller heal radius is 8m, largest damage radius is 6m) So the abilities, disregarding the cap, seem designed for us to spread out.


And yes, they said it was an issue for the lag during the guild summit.
And on friday's comment, he was talking about increasing the target cap, not its removal.
Of course it will be still a problem. Either you increase the cap to the point it might as well not be there anymore, or you just encourage players to stack in larger groups making the issue worse.

The various parts of Zos don't seem to communicate.
While during the guild summit, they mentionned its removal and addition of a soft cap on it. During that stream we had two different ideas: the zerg burster "disease" and the increase of the target cap of Friday.

One possible reason why they haven't gotten rid of them yet is, as he said on Friday, that it impacts PvE. And PvE is the core of the game, AvA isn't an important demographic, so their primary allegiance goes to the PvE players and removing the cap will have a bad PR effect on them.
Also, their encouters were designed with the cap in mind, a bit of the content may get trivialized. I personnaly had only two times where I had encouters with more than 6 enemies, but I don't PvE at high level, so it can very well be a real issue.
But for the PvP aspect of the game, there are no reasons to keep the cap.

Here is a list of Facts:
- There is the first selection process (radius) and the cap adds a secundary one (which 6 to impact?)
- Healing/buffing is not a reason to stack, but it synergies with the target cap so people are under the impression it his more potent than it actually is. The cap is the cause, everything else is just cherry on top.
- I stated that as a step in the reasoning. Stacking is the only and best move you should to regarding to your party's formation.
- To extend the reasoning, if there is a clear best move, everything else doesn't exist in the playing field unless by mistake.
- And to conclude the reasoning, it lower the skill ceiling because it means groups have only one strategy they need to learn and execute. Shield walls, multiple line ,flanking, surounding and other formation/maneuvers are pointless in ESO. The extent of the skill ceiling of a stack member is to follow the crown and spam pbaoes. It's good enough to win 90% of the fights.
- The barrier of entry is that to exploit the best mechanic in the game, you need 6+ persons. Smaller groups or individuals can't access it. Also ,the more you are, the more it advantages you, increasing the gap.
- Less variety/repetition, shorter learning curve and helplesness until meeting certain conditions are all reasons to quit the game sooner rather than later.

I went trough all this not because you spoke out about it but because user behavior is part of technical problems.
In this case, the lag comes mostly from how the players have reacted to the target caps. The individual calculation are slightly heavier with the cap and can cause live/dead locks crashing the servers, but this is trivial compared to the strained caused by stacking.

1) They will stack situationally. But then revert to spread out formation. Which is great, asking for coordination and situation awareness for the leader/healers.
But no, they will not physically be able to stack 100% of the time and tank. Even a group with 100% healers won't be able to wistand it.

2) True, and maybe another OP one will arise. That, we cannot entierely predict.
But my best guess is that it will go towards a multiple line front. It is how "noobs" behave because that's how the abilities seem to be designed.
You have the melee characters in the front, getting supported through synergies by a second line of ranged characters and all of which is sustained by a thrid line of healers. Damaged characters getting out of the fight, back in the line to get healed and the "goal" is to get as many enemies out of the fight while keeping the most of yours in the fight.
At the very least, that's how fights between two large unorganized forces behave nowadays. (40v40 without stacking)

3) This should be a tip off. Those other games did not have smart healing ,yet they had stacking. Target caps by themselves were enough to cause stacking.
It's made worst in ESO because of smart healing, but the cause is the cap.

4) The number of "potential" target is increased, but not the amount of effective targets. Without caps, the meta will not revolve around stacking. Again, you need to take into account that players will react to the change in a mostly "smart" way.
Risking to get wiped in a single focus fire is stupid, so people will spread out.
As healing abilities have a range of 27m, players don't lose out on support either.
So the effective targets will be actually lower than now, between 2 to 4 targets in "normal" conditions.

5) Since players won't be stacking, all those extra members in the group won't need to be processed. It will not occur.

6) The code is just an ofshoot of the feature. Omptimization isn't a magical process. If the feature calls for a reduced amount of calculation, then the code will be faster.

I'll go in more details as to why removing the cap and making characters die quicker is reducing the lag.
Now due to the target cap, players stack, so ALL players get hit by an aoe, but only 6 of them get impacted by it. This gives healers more time to react.
Due to smart healing (or targeted heals in other games) those players impacted can easily be healed and they need to be hit again to negate the heal.
So multiple times per second, that group gets focused fired, and multiple times per second, that group gets focused healed. Since players stay alive, you have lingering dots/buffs/debuffs and other localized "effect fields" to handle.

Without the cap, if players were to still stack, one focus fire would take them all out.
The end.

But the thing is, they wouldn't still be stacking, so instead, there would be less aoes and those still used would impact less characters, or at the very least, hit less characters.

The reality being: a focus fire is a heavy lag for one second while with caps it is that same focus fire several times a second, creating a massive sustained lag that piles up effects the longer it lasts.

Edit/PS: A lot of your missconceptions seem to come from the fact you ignore the impact of the meta game on features effectiveness, and vice versa.
Like believing that healing and buffing are strong, when they are actually much weaker than damage spells.
Or thinking that uncaped aoe will hit as many targets as they hit now without taking into account that uncaped aoe will change how players move.

xDOVAHKIINx

I was looking at older threads and came across this one, sad really how things have not changed.

xDOVAHKIINx

Lfehova wrote: »

The obvious solution is removing aoe caps completely so it removes all those calculations. The calculations are not heavy when it simply decides, ok, you're within the area of aoe damage, you lose 400 health. It gets heavy when it says ok, there's 80 people next to you, now let's calculate your chance of getting hit compared to others, and decide who gets hit. Or even worse in terms of smart heals, let's compare your health to all of your 80 allies, and take the lowest health to be hit by the heal in addition to rng picking who takes damage. If aoe caps were removed, it would bring the server speeds back to where they were before they implemented these PoS aoe caps.

Seems as tho players of old knew AOE caps were the issue. Now in 2.0.1 AOEs have no caps, but the servers have to do more calculations for every AOE cast.

MorHawk

xDOVAHKIINx wrote: »

Lfehova wrote: »

The obvious solution is removing aoe caps completely so it removes all those calculations. The calculations are not heavy when it simply decides, ok, you're within the area of aoe damage, you lose 400 health. It gets heavy when it says ok, there's 80 people next to you, now let's calculate your chance of getting hit compared to others, and decide who gets hit. Or even worse in terms of smart heals, let's compare your health to all of your 80 allies, and take the lowest health to be hit by the heal in addition to rng picking who takes damage. If aoe caps were removed, it would bring the server speeds back to where they were before they implemented these PoS aoe caps.

Seems as tho players of old knew AOE caps were the issue. Now in 2.0.1 AOEs have no caps, but the servers have to do more calculations for every AOE cast.

Yes, but that's only because of the diminishing returns deal they've set up. Were it just a flat 'same for everyone' deal, it'd be a lot less process-intensive.

xDOVAHKIINx

MorHawk wrote: »

xDOVAHKIINx wrote: »

Lfehova wrote: »

The obvious solution is removing aoe caps completely so it removes all those calculations. The calculations are not heavy when it simply decides, ok, you're within the area of aoe damage, you lose 400 health. It gets heavy when it says ok, there's 80 people next to you, now let's calculate your chance of getting hit compared to others, and decide who gets hit. Or even worse in terms of smart heals, let's compare your health to all of your 80 allies, and take the lowest health to be hit by the heal in addition to rng picking who takes damage. If aoe caps were removed, it would bring the server speeds back to where they were before they implemented these PoS aoe caps.

Seems as tho players of old knew AOE caps were the issue. Now in 2.0.1 AOEs have no caps, but the servers have to do more calculations for every AOE cast.

Yes, but that's only because of the diminishing returns deal they've set up. Were it just a flat 'same for everyone' deal, it'd be a lot less process-intensive.

Exactly they are just making it harder on their servers.

Gizit

Soooooo if i am reading this correctly,
When AD and DC are in a lag fight, its ZOS fault and you are all victims.

When EP is involved its EbonHeart Fault for exploiting...

-- are not you guilty of "exploiting here" your factions, spamming healing springs, impulse and others..?
this is effing laughable...

CMG138

That's why I said take away AoE's in Cyrodiil and give any skills like that a different effect in PvP.

CMG138

Gizit wrote: »

Soooooo if i am reading this correctly,
When AD and DC are in a lag fight, its ZOS fault and you are all victims.

When EP is involved its EbonHeart Fault for exploiting...

-- are not you guilty of "exploiting here" your factions, spamming healing springs, impulse and others..?
this is effing laughable...

Why do you think they're taking away the cap? AD has been doing horrible in Thornblade. It looks like DC might have actually gotten their balls back from AD's purse.

Valnas

hova's right in that, the calculation (every added player in the vicinity of an AoE increases the calculation's computational time). There's a point of players and cast density that makes the server unresponsive. Despite the fact we can hit everyone, nothing has changed. every cast is still making the mega server take a mega dump.