Why do people think this game sucks?

Greanis

Hello, I decided to make this thread after reading a couple of others recently decrying the ESO as the death of the series and a poor successor to what was Skyrim. The thing that really upset me was that no one could really provide a in depth analysis for either side yet viciously rallied against the opposing side with all sorts of jests and jeers. So today I've decided to type up my thoughts on the matter and provide an in depth analysis over why I take the side of those in support of ESO. If anyone actually bothers reading this I'd be delighted if I get some response from people defending why ESO sucks. Now lets being shall we. I see a few points mainly being circulated on the forums as to why ESO sucks. They seem to be as follows.

1. It's a poor successor to Skyrim/Skyrim was better.

2. It doesn't offer the same depth as Skyrim

3. It doesn't look as good as Skyrim.

4. It's boring.

5. I wish I had a new Elder Scrolls game instead.

6. It doesn't compare to X MMO.

7. It's Mechanics suck.

8. It doesn't encourage grouping.

9. It doesn't play a traditional Elder Scrolls game.

10. It has bad reviews

Those seem to be the main points though I'm sure someone else will be able to provide some more.

First off lets discuss point 1. It's a poor successor to Skyrim. When people make this claim it makes my skin crawl because if we look at it Skyrim was a tad bit over hyped and over praised. I've sunk countless hours into Skyrim but after all that time when I look back on it what was really there of value? The story was subpar. The boss fights were dull and largely just more of the same. Dragon fights lost all meaning and point after a while especially after you got all the shouts you wanted. No one really reacted or cared about the Dragons. No one really cared what you did. Looking back on it now I kind of feel like Skyrim was a game about your character wandering around like the Tamrielic version of Sam from Ghost. The crafting system was down right crude. Tile sets and things in game had little to no variety to them. NPC's never really reacted to you and your growing influence. In fact they gave me the same generic responses no matter what. At the time back in 2011 I can see how these things seemed amazing and revolutionary but now it's kind of laughable how much people idealize Skyrim into a perfect game.

Point two is that it doesn't offer the same depth as Skyrim which is down right ridiculous to claim. What depth did Skyrim offer you that ESO does not? Subpar interactions with a bunch of NPC's voiced by a total of 13 people who barely react to what you do? Subpar binary choices between two factions that affected nothing like the Civil War and or Dawnguard offered? You could claim that Skyrim offered more character depth with the removal of the class system leaving you with skills to raise but it's actually immersion breaking when you think about it. In ESO your character is giving choices in his abilities. He could use all Fighters Guild abilities or all Class abilities or all Weapon abilities. You specialize in certain things that form your fighting style and if you don't specialize you end up overstretched and ineffective. At least in my experience. In Skyrim your character can do anything he wants and it's weird. People practice things for hours on end to get good at it but it seems like you're character is a natural at everything like he's Dude Perfect or something. It's the Tamrielic equivalent of being a CowboyRockstarAstronaut.

Point three states it doesn't look as good as Skyrim which is actually pretty hilarious seeing as how Skyrim looks downright awful by today's standards. While I see it's a matter of taste I feel that they're missing A) It's a MMO and needs to be able to run fast to ensure everyone can go at the same speed. Therefor lesser graphics when you're besieging a castle with a hundred people is a god send. Compared to most other MMO's on the market ESO is amazing in it's quality.

Point 4 is a matter of personal taste and really can't be used as a argument against ESO effectively. It's really up to you what you get out of the game, yo.

Point 5 People who say this don't understand that just because something shares the same name and lore doesn't mean the same people are making it. Bethesda is off making Fallout or something cool, yo. Zenimax Online is running this show.

Point 6 is people comparing ESO to other MMO's and whining that it doesn't meet those standards. These people are kind of odd to me because the MMO's they compare ESO to are A) Much older and given more time to simmer and put out content Tend to share the same generic mechanics that MMO's since Everquest have. Especially games like WOW where spamming abillities is the name of the game while you sit locked on to your enemies.

Point 7 is that the mechanics suck. Which is quite laughable. ESO has some of the richest mechanics I've seen in an MMO. Effective blocking, responsive swings and power attacks. Dodging and a shortened ability bar encourages strategy. The skill point system also encourages you to plan yourself out with your limited resources early in the game giving a greater sense of thought as to who you want to be. You're not spoon fed abilities and perks and get to decide for yourself. Something I felt was lacking in WOW. I also appreciate that mounts are upgradable. Really everything is. Not only that but the crafting allows for greater depth then just making "Generic Leather Armor Everyone Wears Vambraces." You get to greater control deciding their style and perks along with it. Not only that but compared to Skyrim the crafting is really the best ES has to offer compared to producing "Orcish Armor" In that one specific style with one specific material because Yo, It's tradition to forge armor to look exactly the same like this Henry Ford's production line.

Point 8. I can kind of see this one. Although I've run multiple dungeons just from asking people in Zone if they wanted to. Wasn't that hard really.

Point 9. It's an MMO, not an RPG. Not only that but traditional has no place in ES where literally every iteration plays differently and has different mechanics associated with it.

Point 10. It's been pretty well established gaming journalism is god awful and downright corrupt. Not only that but those reviews are for a constantly updating and changing game that may not even be the same in a year. Plus you're a human being with thoughts and impressions. How about not getting jaded over what others say and come to your own conclusion. Then when you do come and share those thoughts and impressions. Discourse and debate is the best part of the internet, yo.

Anyway those are just my thoughts if you agree or disagree feel free to post below and tell me what an idiot I am.

Crumpy

It's boring?

ers101284b14_ESO

Mostly because it wasn't Skyrim online so it got hate. You can still see people claiming this game sucks who hadn't played since the first month or never played at all. Honestly Skyrim even though it was good was probably the most dumbed down in the series. It is also the most successful in the series meaning a lot of people think that it's the only one because they can't count and don't know what 5 means.

Now people like me who played since Morrowind seem to enjoy it. Why? Well Morrowind you had a lot of control over your character who you where and what skills you boosted. This is the same in this game. Even though the balance is all whacked and will be forever your still less restricted than pretty much any MMO and you really can make 1000's of combinations of builds.

TLDR: Skyrim fans where expecting Skyrim online, MMO fans where expecting WoW in Tamriel. Since it appealed to neither of those impending hate ensued.

PS:It also had a rough launch and people didn't have enough cream for the pain in their posterior regions.

Greanis

I've heard people complaining about how boring it was for them a couple times. Decided to include it since I figured someone might bring it up eventually.Or do you mean that it is indeed boring?

Greanis

Bah let me rephrase. I loved Skyrim when it came out but looking back on it I had no reason to give a crap about anything. The loot exaggerated this. Why search caves for ancient riches when you get generic leveled things? I remember retrieving a daedric spear at level 2 in Morrowind barely surviving with use of scrolls against the dremora's assualting me. In Skyrim I just run around hitting things until they die then taking their stuff. Then you have the issue of no one responding to you or what you do and all that garbage. In Morrowind you weren't a god from the start you had your natural advantages and you pressed them or die. Skyrim you might as well just play as a Daedric Prince.

Ninnghizhidda

It doesn't suck as a whole. Parts of it suck, simply due to the weird (to put it mildly) ideas and design the devs had about the classes, skills, roles, and furthermore the synergies of those with weapon and armour types.

The problems were obvious from the early stages, from Betas, yet pretty little changed, ESO went live, and 5 months after we are still struggling with the same issues, waiting for the miracle Update that will finally address the situation.

Apart from irritating and disappointing, the whole mess is also unacceptable for a game / project of this calibre, budget and legacy behind it (The Elder Scrolls series).

Otherwise, ESO has many wonderful elements and the foundations for a truly awesome game. The sooner ZoS addresses the real issues and stops being stubborn / slacking, the sooner its full potential will be unleashed.

khele23eb17_ESO

Balance issues.

Greanis

What are the real issues exactly?

Drjones501

Love the game, even with its "balancing issues" which all mmo's deal with. What I do not like about the game is update 1.4. I cannot play my main due to latency (I'm a healer and people are dropping like flies) and I cannot play my nb because he's stuck on the final bangkorai story line quest due to a bug.

TESO = love it
ZOS = officially on my list of people that I pay money to and they fail.

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO

I don't think this game sucks. Far from it. I have played almost every day for several months, and I have enjoyed it a lot for the most part. Between the bugs and my occasional frustration with bad balancing and odd design decisions, I have lots of fun exploring the huge game world alone or with other people. However, I cannot avoid noticing how badly programmed it is, and too many things are still left in an unfinished state without a fix in sight. ESO was released before it was finished, and it has trouble recovering from that.

I'm not leaving for quite some time yet. I still have lots of things to see and do even in the content that was already there at launch. I just wish they had finished it before release instead of trying to patch things up after the fact, and doing it badly and too late.

Nox_Aeterna

It is ofc a matter of opinion , personally from what i have saw there , you decided to "put glasses on" and just consider multiple of the game flaws acceptable and thus not an issue.

Ofc , if a person is to consider the flaws fine , the game couldnt be anything but good.

Personally i dont think like that , thus the game is far from good.

At launch , all bugs aside i would say ... average/good , today? Bad/average.

Then again , a matter of opinion , you keep yours , i keep mine.

GamerzElite

Cause I cant play 15 mins from last 5 hours.

ExiledKhallisi

The same reason biased people still think old cars are better than new ones. Even though the new cars have better gas milage, go faster, and are safer. People get stuck in their ways. They like what they know and shun what they don't. People who play WOW are biased. People talk crap but we just got a great review from mmorpg.com people try to say the games dieing but no one actually know the numbers.

Greanis

I thought the numbers were around 772,000?

Greanis

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

It is ofc a matter of opinion , personally from what i have saw there , you decided to "put glasses on" and just consider multiple of the game flaws acceptable and thus not an issue.

Ofc , if a person is to consider the flaws fine , the game couldnt be anything but good.

Personally i dont think like that , thus the game is far from good.

At launch , all bugs aside i would say ... average/good , today? Bad/average.

Then again , a matter of opinion , you keep yours , i keep mine.

What exactly are the games flaws? The reason I made this thread was to discuss both sides of the dichotomy in detail rather then "LOL GAME IS FLAWED AND SUCKS AND YOU NOT SEEING FLAWS LOL!"

ers101284b14_ESO

Greanis wrote: »

I thought the numbers were around 772,000?

That was the numbers SuperData got from Zenimax. Bust since Zenimax didn't put it on their Facebook page it the doom and gloomers said it's not valid. But they are the same people who said VGChartz numbers of only 100k copies sold was gospel even though VGChartz has already been proven to be a terrible source. They are the same people who said guild numbers are more hardcore proof that the game is dead.

Greanis

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Greanis wrote: »

I thought the numbers were around 772,000?

That was the numbers SuperData got from Zenimax. Bust since Zenimax didn't put it on their Facebook page it the doom and gloomers said it's not valid. But they are the same people who said VGChartz numbers of only 100k copies sold was gospel even though VGChartz has already been proven to be a terrible source. They are the same people who said guild numbers are more hardcore proof that the game is dead.

Ah, to be fair at this point all gaming journalism is terrible. Though considering the massive amounts of people I see in game I'm willing to believe 3/4th's of a million is accurate.

ers101284b14_ESO

Greanis wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Greanis wrote: »

I thought the numbers were around 772,000?

That was the numbers SuperData got from Zenimax. Bust since Zenimax didn't put it on their Facebook page it the doom and gloomers said it's not valid. But they are the same people who said VGChartz numbers of only 100k copies sold was gospel even though VGChartz has already been proven to be a terrible source. They are the same people who said guild numbers are more hardcore proof that the game is dead.

Ah, to be fair at this point all gaming journalism is terrible. Though considering the massive amounts of people I see in game I'm willing to believe 3/4th's of a million is accurate.

I think it's a little more than that since that was before the Steam release and I am seeing more new and returning players over the past few months.

Greanis

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Greanis wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Greanis wrote: »

I thought the numbers were around 772,000?

That was the numbers SuperData got from Zenimax. Bust since Zenimax didn't put it on their Facebook page it the doom and gloomers said it's not valid. But they are the same people who said VGChartz numbers of only 100k copies sold was gospel even though VGChartz has already been proven to be a terrible source. They are the same people who said guild numbers are more hardcore proof that the game is dead.

Ah, to be fair at this point all gaming journalism is terrible. Though considering the massive amounts of people I see in game I'm willing to believe 3/4th's of a million is accurate.

I think it's a little more than that since that was before the Steam release and I am seeing more new and returning players over the past few months.

That's good. Hopefully that prevents the game from going free to play for well.. Ever.

wolfydog

A lot of the hate just comes from a rough launch I think. While the launch was not a total disaster, the game did have a huge bot problem and some bugs. With gaming media being even more popular nowadays then back in the time of WoW's launch and even games like Warhammer Online 5 years ago or so, ESO just got beat up even more. Trolls just pile on trolls and bash the game. Even look at Destiny now, not quit living up the hype, maybe like how it was ESO and people just bash it even though after 3 or 4 months of patches the game will a ton better just like ESO is.

I get why people are comparing to single player ES games but its not a single player game. Your not going to be able please everyone. Myself personally, not a huge fan of open world games. Whether it be Assassins Creed, Grand Theft Auto, Red Dead, and ES, I just don't really care for them much. I do like lore and world of ES, but the games never did it for me like for some people. Thus I find the Elder Scrolls Online far more compelling then any single player ES game.

I also don't why people bash ESO's combat. The combat in this game is far ahead any of single player ES games, and its better then just about every other MMO too.

The graphics, yes on a technical level they probably are a bit worse they Skyrim, just go to any Skyrim location in ES and Skyrim itself and see. And the ESO fog is a bit much too. I might expect that on the console version, but not PC, especialy with PC's only getting more powerful and not stagnant like a console. On the other side ESO also presents an entire continent (part of it right now at least) and has such a varied landscape. Much more varied then Morrowind, Oblivion or Skyrim. The games also a lot more colorful. Skyrim was a lot of greys and whites and Oblivion is all green.

ESO is only getting better. Each patch is huge and full of great features. Yes I know it would have been great if the game could have launched in the state it is in now, but with an MMO of this size, its just not possible. The changes that have been made could have been done without getting the masses into the game and seeing what really needs to be changed, like Veteran ranks.

Crumpy

Greanis wrote: »

I've heard people complaining about how boring it was for them a couple times. Decided to include it since I figured someone might bring it up eventually.Or do you mean that it is indeed boring?

Sorry, yes, I do indeed mean that.

Crumpy

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

MMO fans where expecting WoW in Tamriel.

No they just wanted a decent mmo.

ers101284b14_ESO

Crumpy wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

MMO fans where expecting WoW in Tamriel.

No they just wanted a decent mmo.

Sorry but we got a great MMO. If you want a decent one Wildstar is still trying.

Greanis

Crumpy wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

MMO fans where expecting WoW in Tamriel.

No they just wanted a decent mmo.

Can you offer a reason it's bad that's a bit better then it's boring?

Greanis

wolfydog wrote: »

A lot of the hate just comes from a rough launch I think. While the launch was not a total disaster, the game did have a huge bot problem and some bugs. With gaming media being even more popular nowadays then back in the time of WoW's launch and even games like Warhammer Online 5 years ago or so, ESO just got beat up even more. Trolls just pile on trolls and bash the game. Even look at Destiny now, not quit living up the hype, maybe like how it was ESO and people just bash it even though after 3 or 4 months of patches the game will a ton better just like ESO is.

I get why people are comparing to single player ES games but its not a single player game. Your not going to be able please everyone. Myself personally, not a huge fan of open world games. Whether it be Assassins Creed, Grand Theft Auto, Red Dead, and ES, I just don't really care for them much. I do like lore and world of ES, but the games never did it for me like for some people. Thus I find the Elder Scrolls Online far more compelling then any single player ES game.

I also don't why people bash ESO's combat. The combat in this game is far ahead any of single player ES games, and its better then just about every other MMO too.

The graphics, yes on a technical level they probably are a bit worse they Skyrim, just go to any Skyrim location in ES and Skyrim itself and see. And the ESO fog is a bit much too. I might expect that on the console version, but not PC, especialy with PC's only getting more powerful and not stagnant like a console. On the other side ESO also presents an entire continent (part of it right now at least) and has such a varied landscape. Much more varied then Morrowind, Oblivion or Skyrim. The games also a lot more colorful. Skyrim was a lot of greys and whites and Oblivion is all green.

ESO is only getting better. Each patch is huge and full of great features. Yes I know it would have been great if the game could have launched in the state it is in now, but with an MMO of this size, its just not possible. The changes that have been made could have been done without getting the masses into the game and seeing what really needs to be changed, like Veteran ranks.

Also excellent response, I appreciate the detail you provided as to why you like the game which was the point of this thread, yo. Better elaborating both sides.

Workerdroid7

I'm perhaps not qualified to respond to this thread, since I've extremely new to the game (like 10 days, still under level 10). I've played every ES game since Morrowind, and loved them all. I have mixed feelings about this, but they really have nothing to do with the gameplay - when I am actually able to play, I love it! The combat, the storyline, the crafting, the skills... all fantastic! On the flip side... 90% of the time I cannot play the game because I am unable to login.

I thought initially that this was due to my internet connection being a bit dodgy, but no. I can stream YouTube videos in HD with no problems, but I cannot login. A bit of testing has shown that an incorrect password entry will result in a message in under 5 seconds (usually 2 or 3), but I cannot actually connect to a server. This, sadly, makes the game suck. It doesn't matter how brilliant the game features are, if the only thing I can see is "There was an error, try logging in again in a few minutes".

Greanis

Workerdroid7 wrote: »

I'm perhaps not qualified to respond to this thread, since I've extremely new to the game (like 10 days, still under level 10). I've played every ES game since Morrowind, and loved them all. I have mixed feelings about this, but they really have nothing to do with the gameplay - when I am actually able to play, I love it! The combat, the storyline, the crafting, the skills... all fantastic! On the flip side... 90% of the time I cannot play the game because I am unable to login.

I thought initially that this was due to my internet connection being a bit dodgy, but no. I can stream YouTube videos in HD with no problems, but I cannot login. A bit of testing has shown that an incorrect password entry will result in a message in under 5 seconds (usually 2 or 3), but I cannot actually connect to a server. This, sadly, makes the game suck. It doesn't matter how brilliant the game features are, if the only thing I can see is "There was an error, try logging in again in a few minutes".

Huh,that's weird. Have you tried contacting Zeni over this?

Vahrokh

This whole argument is a dead and rotting horse, why are you so cruel to keep beating it?

Anyway, if you can't see what's wrong at having the single MMO where level up content ends at 1/3 of the player advancement (50), then starts a recycled round (VR1-10) and ends in the worst top level zone ever created in any MMO (Craplorn) since ever, then no amount of arguments would be enough.

Greanis

Vahrokh wrote: »

This whole argument is a dead and rotting horse, why are you so cruel to keep beating it?

Anyway, if you can't see what's wrong at having the single MMO where level up content ends at 1/3 of the player advancement (50), then starts a recycled round (VR1-10) and ends in the worst top level zone ever created in any MMO (Craplorn) since ever, then no amount of arguments would be enough.

What makes Craglorn so bad exactly?

Khami

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

The same reason biased people still think old cars are better than new ones. Even though the new cars have better gas milage, go faster, and are safer. People get stuck in their ways. They like what they know and shun what they don't. People who play WOW are biased. People talk crap but we just got a great review from mmorpg.com people try to say the games dieing but no one actually know the numbers.

If you go to MMORPG.Com and rank the games by the rating/hype, ESO is higher than WoW.

Crumpy

Greanis wrote: »

Crumpy wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

MMO fans where expecting WoW in Tamriel.

No they just wanted a decent mmo.

Can you offer a reason it's bad that's a bit better then it's boring?

No the boringness of it is my main criticism. And for me, a boring game is a *** one.