Nightblade's Stealth - Completely Broken? Possibly resolved?

Arsenic_Touch

Doesn't inspire much confidence when they say we have to wait for fixes in a hotfix after the patch and maintenance.... not that the night's silence fix really matters, it's still going to be worthless for anyone that's a vampire because of kneejerk changes. /sigh

bunnytrix

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

Doesn't inspire much confidence when they say we have to wait for fixes in a hotfix after the patch and maintenance.... not that the night's silence fix really matters, it's still going to be worthless for anyone that's a vampire because of kneejerk changes. /sigh

Well they obviously think the stealth issue is not important enough to get a fix out fast, or more worryingly, they know that its a much wider issue and don't actually know where the problem is..

raglau

bunnytrix wrote: »

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

Doesn't inspire much confidence when they say we have to wait for fixes in a hotfix after the patch and maintenance.... not that the night's silence fix really matters, it's still going to be worthless for anyone that's a vampire because of kneejerk changes. /sigh

Well they obviously think the stealth issue is not important enough to get a fix out fast, or more worryingly, they know that its a much wider issue and don't actually know where the problem is..

It could simply be the stealth fix was not ready for the test cycle to hit this week's release window, and therefore they have to do an emergency release (hotfix) to get it out there.

bunnytrix

"test cycle".........haha
sorry, but those 2 words and zeni just do not go together....

raglau

bunnytrix wrote: »

"test cycle".........haha
sorry, but those 2 words and zeni just do not go together....

Somewhat agreed, hence why we ended up in this scenario, the testing for 1.4.x was obviously weak. That said, there is evidently a test cycle, because of the repetitive maintenance window, but the testing itself is clearly weak.

So now they are possibly putting some rigour around it (judging by the earlier ZoS statement), which would be a good thing.

Luvsfuzzybunnies

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

GwaynLoki wrote: »

wwusterbarthub17_ESO wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

wwusterbarthub17_ESO wrote: »

vaughancs wrote: »

I agree, vamp nb's have been done wrong..pls don't make any more changes unless it is an improvement for NB's. I had the night silence set..vamps are supernatural so, yeah,we should run faster in stealth.hasnt anyone seen "Interview with a Vampire :P Thats the trade off for fire vulnerability (even with enchant resists), having to feed every so often and getti g one-shotted by silverbolt..we are vamps people..vamp is a skill line with passives..did you change the magika and stamina passives from the guild lines that prolly stacks with sets that gives increased stats? No...the one thing that made me happy..you had to take it away..cuz of a few whiners...who cares if we go as fast as their horse..tell them to feed it!

Or Bram's Stoker Dracula -- guy shaving and gets tapped on the shoulder only to turn around and the VAMPIRE is in the door way about 30 feet away.

What is it about being a supernatural being with being able to sneak at incredible speeds do people not get?

Bram Stoker Dracula-Children of the Night put that in youtube

Lol what is there to get?

Vampires everywhere are Silent and Sneaky and fast as hell

So you basically want to disintegrate into dust the moment sunlight touches you, too? Sounds ok.

No no no. They only want the good things.

thanks for ignoring my response to that, and posting something unproductive rather than suggesting a way to make that feasible.

I didn't see your response, but after having read it I would say: "No, no, no, they only want good things."

This is a way of saying that people who play vamps, only want goods things. They don't want any adverse affects to being stronger, faster etc. Oh yeah my bad, fire damage. Puuuuuhlease.

fire damage has never been the issue for me actually. It's having my health bar stay stock still with next to 0 regen.

Maybe you should learn the downsides before you comment.

I don't want 100% positives, and would even be okay with a batswarm nerf.

This visceral hate for vampires and the need to punish the players into the ground is just over the top.

The hate comes because there are no real large disadvantages from being a vampire. Sure your in combat health Regen is 10 while a normal players in 40 maybe(unless you geared for health regen which you could do as a vampire as well) thats not game changing. In a standard pen and paper dnd or gurps session you are given x points to create you character. You can gain more points by taking disadvantages which affect how your character plays largely throughout the campaign. They can also not be negated by use of items in a typical rp play session. You took a disadvantage and by God its yours to live with. In eso you don't have to suffer the disadvantages you just get the positives from it. That's why there is hate for vampires whether people realize that's why they hate it or not it is the reason. It would be like saying you could trade in 1 point of health for any other stat in the game weapon damage stamina crit what ever you want then giving the player an item or skill that negates 100% damage. Sensationalized for the purpose of helping you understand. So why not trade in all your health but 1 point when you know there will be no significant drawbacks?

Edit: becoming a vampire doesn't require you to play any differently and there are several abilities in the tree that help.you regain your life such as drain essence and feeding the latter doesn't even take up a slot on your bar cc the affected enemy unbreakable unless someone else can cc the vampire and heals you. I'd call that a 6th ability for the vampire and a huge advantage thus alone pretty well negates any negative a vampire has. To go from 10 regular slots to 12 and have such a poweful ability it really is hard to believe not everyone is a vampire.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Pibbles wrote: »

Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »

No one feeds as a vampire unless they need too to stay alive in a fight. It is more beneficial to stay at stage 4 than any other stage. The fire vulnerability is hardly game breaking

I am a vampire and I completely agree with this. I forget to feed and don't even notice! Not that I can feed now anyway, being as stealth is broken ;-)

But it doesn't really feel like I have a disease, I am surprised the whole game population hasn't willingly taken on vampirism because there's not really a down-side.

I can't agree with that at all. I notice that fire vulnerability on my vampire alt. It's a huge disadvantage with so much fire in this game.

And, for PvP, everyone out there will do 9% more damage to vampires minimum. 50% more with any fire and a whole lot more when using FG abilities. There aren't as many vamps as people think there. There are a lot but I'm disappointed that there aren't more because I gear up to kill them and, for very little outlay, you really do an enormous amount of extra damage against vamps. If being oneshot (up to 3k health) isn't a disadvantage I don't know what is.

Well, for awhile now spell penetration with light armor was broken, so fire weaknesses were irrelevant when talking about abilities.

In PvP you noticed the fire increase only on siege, now everyone but vampires will notice a decrease in damage for fire (along with other things.)

In PvE, the weakness is painfully apparent, however. I know a lot of people don't think that, but try doing a vet dungeon like elden hollow with a weakness. Possible, but insane.

I also here the new arena is nigh impossible as a vampire.

rwross

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌ first I woukd like to say thanks for soliciting feedback from this community about the patch issues and for correcting nights silence on Monday.

Could you be a bit more specific on the stealth situation as that might cool things down a bit in this thread.

1) most reports, mine included, indicated that stealth was broken beyond just the racial passive "Stealth,", to also include the medium armor passive "improved sneak. Is that your conclusion as well?

2) Assuming we are right about #1 above, that means our sneaky class defining capability is completely non functional at the moment which is why I assume you guys will hot fix rather than waiting another week. Do you think that will occur later in the day Monday? If not, when? If you aren't sure about that, can you let us know when you will know:-)

3) This whole issue is totally a "first world problem" and I think everyone gets that, however, any additional communications you can provide will likely be much appreciated!!

Luvsfuzzybunnies

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Pibbles wrote: »

Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »

No one feeds as a vampire unless they need too to stay alive in a fight. It is more beneficial to stay at stage 4 than any other stage. The fire vulnerability is hardly game breaking

I am a vampire and I completely agree with this. I forget to feed and don't even notice! Not that I can feed now anyway, being as stealth is broken ;-)

But it doesn't really feel like I have a disease, I am surprised the whole game population hasn't willingly taken on vampirism because there's not really a down-side.

I can't agree with that at all. I notice that fire vulnerability on my vampire alt. It's a huge disadvantage with so much fire in this game.

And, for PvP, everyone out there will do 9% more damage to vampires minimum. 50% more with any fire and a whole lot more when using FG abilities. There aren't as many vamps as people think there. There are a lot but I'm disappointed that there aren't more because I gear up to kill them and, for very little outlay, you really do an enormous amount of extra damage against vamps. If being oneshot (up to 3k health) isn't a disadvantage I don't know what is.

Well, for awhile now spell penetration with light armor was broken, so fire weaknesses were irrelevant when talking about abilities.

In PvP you noticed the fire increase only on siege, now everyone but vampires will notice a decrease in damage for fire (along with other things.)

In PvE, the weakness is painfully apparent, however. I know a lot of people don't think that, but try doing a vet dungeon like elden hollow with a weakness. Possible, but insane.

I also here the new arena is nigh impossible as a vampire.

Still is.broken so still irrelevant. Also feeding increases your health regen so if you didn't want to stay in stage 4 all the time your health regen would be much better. But it seems you want to ignore what I am saying about vampires so this will probably again fall on deaf ears.

raglau

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

In PvE, the weakness is painfully apparent, however. I know a lot of people don't think that, but try doing a vet dungeon like elden hollow with a weakness. Possible, but insane.

I also here the new arena is nigh impossible as a vampire.

Whilst I have not tried Arena yet, I'd have to disagree re. vet content. In both S1 and S2, with a fire protection rune, I have not experienced any issues in vet dungeons as a vamp.

But from a PvE perspective at least, the gains are not exactly earth-shaking either. I already had learned siphon abilities and VoB to a level that is on a par with anything in the vampire tree. Batswarm is nice because it's mobile but TBH, in PvE, the enemies are so stupid they just stand in the same spot most of the time anyway.

Being a vampire in ESO does not really feel particularly interesting or special and I am thinking I'll get cured and re-use those ability points elsewhere.

YVMMV of course!

rwross

Not trying to snarky here, but wouldn't the debate about vampire abilities be best served in a thread dedicated to that topic. Just trying to help the ZOS folks sift through our posts.

Seems once we have stealth "fixed" as a baseline we can then see about other issues.

raglau

rwross wrote: »

Not trying to snarky here, but wouldn't the debate about vampire abilities be best served in a thread dedicated to that topic. Just trying to help the ZOS folks sift through our posts.

Seems once we have stealth "fixed" as a baseline we can then see about other issues.

You're right, perhaps we might start another thread if it's that important.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Pibbles wrote: »

Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »

No one feeds as a vampire unless they need too to stay alive in a fight. It is more beneficial to stay at stage 4 than any other stage. The fire vulnerability is hardly game breaking

I am a vampire and I completely agree with this. I forget to feed and don't even notice! Not that I can feed now anyway, being as stealth is broken ;-)

But it doesn't really feel like I have a disease, I am surprised the whole game population hasn't willingly taken on vampirism because there's not really a down-side.

I can't agree with that at all. I notice that fire vulnerability on my vampire alt. It's a huge disadvantage with so much fire in this game.

And, for PvP, everyone out there will do 9% more damage to vampires minimum. 50% more with any fire and a whole lot more when using FG abilities. There aren't as many vamps as people think there. There are a lot but I'm disappointed that there aren't more because I gear up to kill them and, for very little outlay, you really do an enormous amount of extra damage against vamps. If being oneshot (up to 3k health) isn't a disadvantage I don't know what is.

Well, for awhile now spell penetration with light armor was broken, so fire weaknesses were irrelevant when talking about abilities.

In PvP you noticed the fire increase only on siege, now everyone but vampires will notice a decrease in damage for fire (along with other things.)

In PvE, the weakness is painfully apparent, however. I know a lot of people don't think that, but try doing a vet dungeon like elden hollow with a weakness. Possible, but insane.

I also here the new arena is nigh impossible as a vampire.

Still is.broken so still irrelevant. Also feeding increases your health regen so if you didn't want to stay in stage 4 all the time your health regen would be much better. But it seems you want to ignore what I am saying about vampires so this will probably again fall on deaf ears.

is it? Why would they nerf spell penetration and not actually fix it? lol

Luvsfuzzybunnies

rwross wrote: »

Not trying to snarky here, but wouldn't the debate about vampire abilities be best served in a thread dedicated to that topic. Just trying to help the ZOS folks sift through our posts.

Seems once we have stealth "fixed" as a baseline we can then see about other issues.

Apologies you are correct this would be better in a different thread. I would like to see cloak fixed as much as anyone else for.the record. I think my past posts would confirm.that.

Bouvin

Sneak_Thief wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Ok everyone, thanks so much for your help and patience. We have identified what the main issue is here: both the racial passive Stealthy and the item set Nightshade are not currently working. We are hard at work fixing both of these, and apologize for the frustration this has caused. We'll let you know when you can expect to see the fix.

Thanks for looking into and addressing the issues. I feel there is more to it than just racial, as several commented stating sneak was the same with/without medium armor, so improved sneak may be affected, or at least feels like it.

It's been broken since beta. They've only managed to break it worse now.

Guess it's time to reroll on Sorcerer or Dragon Knight. Because it looks like there is no hope for NB at this point.

Bouvin

Pibbles wrote: »

Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »

No one feeds as a vampire unless they need too to stay alive in a fight. It is more beneficial to stay at stage 4 than any other stage. The fire vulnerability is hardly game breaking

I am a vampire and I completely agree with this. I forget to feed and don't even notice! Not that I can feed now anyway, being as stealth is broken ;-)

But it doesn't really feel like I have a disease, I am surprised the whole game population hasn't willingly taken on vampirism because there's not really a down-side.

I have more problems with broken armor than forgetting to feed. Couple hours of play with no deaths and suddenly I'm dying really easy.

Check armor.. yea it's all red again.

Xael

Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »

The hate comes because there are no real large disadvantages from being a vampire. Sure your in combat health Regen is 10 while a normal players in 40 maybe(unless you geared for health regen which you could do as a vampire as well) thats not game changing. ---[irrelevant quote removed, this is NOT DnD, NOT Bram Stoker's, NOT any other faulty comparison, this is ESO]---

In eso you don't have to suffer the disadvantages you just get the positives from it. That's why there is hate for vampires whether people realize that's why they hate it or not it is the reason. It would be like saying you could trade in 1 point of health for any other stat in the game weapon damage stamina crit what ever you want then giving the player an item or skill that negates 100% damage. Sensationalized for the purpose of helping you understand. So why not trade in all your health but 1 point when you know there will be no significant drawbacks?

Edit: becoming a vampire doesn't require you to play any differently and there are several abilities in the tree that help.you regain your life such as drain essence and feeding the latter doesn't even take up a slot on your bar cc the affected enemy unbreakable unless someone else can cc the vampire and heals you. I'd call that a 6th ability for the vampire and a huge advantage thus alone pretty well negates any negative a vampire has. To go from 10 regular slots to 12 and have such a poweful ability it really is hard to believe not everyone is a vampire.

According to you, Vamps have major advantages and no disadvantages other than poor regen which is made up for by the ability to drain and feed. You also said being Vamp doesn't require us to play any different.

I like how you say "don't have to suffer the disadvantages you just get the positives from it."

Newsflash, Fighter's Guild abilities work against Vamps. In fact you can completely shut a vamp down with them. The entire skill line applies hard CC and extra damage.
Can you use them on a normal player? Nope.
Can you 1 Shot a normal player with Camo Hunter/Snipe/Weave/ability? Nope. That sure as hell sounds like a disadvantage to me...

Fire damage...? We are forced to use resist items in place of other clutch enchants.

Passives that do not work:
Undeath, this has been broken since beta and still does not work and takes up 2 skill points.
Unnatural Resistance, with this passive I still have sub-par regen. Takes a skill point.

So all of this is offset by our ability to drain someone? Are you serious? A channeled spell which has a debuff element (in other words if he has been drained already by someone else you can't drain him or feed) which is notorious for cancelling and applying the debuff without actually draining. Let's not forget while draining an opponent you can be interrupted thus ruining the ability completely.

I am glad you mentioned feeding, our advantageous 6th skill that breaks the game. Something you failed to mention is that we must be stealthed, up close and behind our target who then must be free of any drain debuffs. You also didn't mention that it does not do any damage to the player, nor does it heal us the way our drain ability does. More importantly you failed to mention that by using this ability we now reduce our vampire stage thus increasing our ability costs, including our ultimate. This for the sake of a cc, actually sets back vampires. Most vampires stay in stage 4 and will never use "feed."

Vamp's skills have been bugged like crazy since beta. They are still screwed up. In fact the only perks right now are Dark Stalker (something you can get from gear), Mistform (yay I can go cloud for a few seconds while being unable to heal, cast, melee), and Swarm.. which is bugged out now and not working half the time players spam their ult key.

Lastly, the hate comes from 2 things:
1. Idiots.
Idiots fail to understand a lot of their problems are self inflicted. Lack of understanding, poor awareness, poor optimization, overall general ignorance. This is plays a monumental role in the blame game. Due to a seemingly high self worth, they feel if someone beat them, obviously the class/ability is overpowered. Clearly they did everything right and no one should be able to do what that person did to them... *insert fallacious reasoning*
The forum is rife with this nonsense.

2. Vamp Emperors.
Since release numerous youtube videos have been posted showing Vampire Emperors beating groups of people. Usually a legendary tale is told about 1 lone Vamp Emp who soloed an entire faction by himself with batswarm and killed everyone and won the internet.

They usually fail to tell you that Emperor had friends, had heals, required a bunch of noobs to stand still inside his swarm. They also don't tell you their failure to optimize CC builds to shut his ass down. Something easily done. More importantly they refuse to mention all the non vamp Emperors who are just as hard to kill, particularly Templars who ult spam and heal up while groups try and bring them down.

After a while of posting this type of stuff people (like yourself) begin parroting all kinds of nonsense about Vampires. The results are interesting: Like the old saying, "When you tell a lie loud enough, long enough, it eventually becomes true."

Of course you can combine above reasons 1&2 as they often go together like hand in glove.


[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

Xael wrote: »

Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »

The hate comes because there are no real large disadvantages from being a vampire. Sure your in combat health Regen is 10 while a normal players in 40 maybe(unless you geared for health regen which you could do as a vampire as well) thats not game changing. ---[irrelevant quote removed, this is NOT DnD, NOT Bram Stoker's, NOT any other faulty comparison, this is ESO]---

In eso you don't have to suffer the disadvantages you just get the positives from it. That's why there is hate for vampires whether people realize that's why they hate it or not it is the reason. It would be like saying you could trade in 1 point of health for any other stat in the game weapon damage stamina crit what ever you want then giving the player an item or skill that negates 100% damage. Sensationalized for the purpose of helping you understand. So why not trade in all your health but 1 point when you know there will be no significant drawbacks?

Edit: becoming a vampire doesn't require you to play any differently and there are several abilities in the tree that help.you regain your life such as drain essence and feeding the latter doesn't even take up a slot on your bar cc the affected enemy unbreakable unless someone else can cc the vampire and heals you. I'd call that a 6th ability for the vampire and a huge advantage thus alone pretty well negates any negative a vampire has. To go from 10 regular slots to 12 and have such a poweful ability it really is hard to believe not everyone is a vampire.

According to you, Vamps have major advantages and no disadvantages other than poor regen which is made up for by the ability to drain and feed. You also said being Vamp doesn't require us to play any different.

I like how you say "don't have to suffer the disadvantages you just get the positives from it."

Newsflash, Fighter's Guild abilities work against Vamps. In fact you can completely shut a vamp down with them. The entire skill line applies hard CC and extra damage.
Can you use them on a normal player? Nope.
Can you 1 Shot a normal player with Camo Hunter/Snipe/Weave/ability? Nope. That sure as hell sounds like a disadvantage to me...

Fire damage...? We are forced to use resist items in place of other clutch enchants.

Passives that do not work:
Undeath, this has been broken since beta and still does not work and takes up 2 skill points.
Unnatural Resistance, with this passive I still have sub-par regen. Takes a skill point.

So all of this is offset by our ability to drain someone? Are you serious? A channeled spell which has a debuff element (in other words if he has been drained already by someone else you can't drain him or feed) which is notorious for cancelling and applying the debuff without actually draining. Let's not forget while draining an opponent you can be interrupted thus ruining the ability completely.

I am glad you mentioned feeding, our advantageous 6th skill that breaks the game. Something you failed to mention is that we must be stealthed, up close and behind our target who then must be free of any drain debuffs. You also didn't mention that it does not do any damage to the player, nor does it heal us the way our drain ability does. More importantly you failed to mention that by using this ability we now reduce our vampire stage thus increasing our ability costs, including our ultimate. This for the sake of a cc, actually sets back vampires. Most vampires stay in stage 4 and will never use "feed."


You really should learn about something before you spout off parroting some other ignoramus. Vamp's skills have been bugged like crazy since beta. They are still screwed up. In fact the only perks right now are Dark Stalker (something you can get from gear), Mistform (yay I can go cloud for a few seconds while being unable to heal, cast, melee), and Swarm.. which is bugged out now and not working half the time players spam their ult key.

Lastly, the hate comes from 2 things:
1. Idiots.
Idiots fail to understand a lot of their problems are self inflicted. Lack of understanding, poor awareness, poor optimization, overall general ignorance. This is plays a monumental role in the blame game. Due to a seemingly high self worth, they feel if someone beat them, obviously the class/ability is overpowered. Clearly they did everything right and no one should be able to do what that person did to them... *insert fallacious reasoning*
The forum is rife with this nonsense.

2. Vamp Emperors.
Since release numerous youtube videos have been posted showing Vampire Emperors beating groups of people. Usually a legendary tale is told about 1 lone Vamp Emp who soloed an entire faction by himself with batswarm and killed everyone and won the internet.

They usually fail to tell you that Emperor had friends, had heals, required a bunch of noobs to stand still inside his swarm. They also don't tell you their failure to optimize CC builds to shut his ass down. Something easily done. More importantly they refuse to mention all the non vamp Emperors who are just as hard to kill, particularly Templars who ult spam and heal up while groups try and bring them down.

After a while of posting this type of stuff people (like yourself) begin parroting all kinds of nonsense about Vampires. The results are interesting: Like the old saying, "When you tell a lie loud enough, long enough, it eventually becomes true."

Of course you can combine above reasons 1&2 as they often go together like hand in glove.
[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

A++ would read again!

This is right on target!

GrimMauKin

Still keen to know if the Medium Armour passives have been/are being addressed; I'm not sure how long we're going to have to wait for stealth to be fixed!

As mentioned previously I've got 5 skills points tied up in stealth, all of which are currently wasted. Hopefully though Shadowy Disguise and related issues should be sorted next patch.

What staggers me is that patches just don't seem to be play tested before going live. Patch 1.4 reset an number of settings and lost key bindings; this isn't a major issue in itself but ought to be immediately apparent to someone playing the game; how they missed that and it ended up in a live patch staggers me and if they can miss something as obvious at that testing is clearly poor!

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

All this stealth crap never hit PTS, btw.

ZOS' opinion of their bug testing abilities is a lot higher than it should be.

MrMT

Deleted.

MrMT

Xael wrote: »

According to you, Vamps have major advantages and no disadvantages other than poor regen which is made up for by the ability to drain and feed. You also said being Vamp doesn't require us to play any different.

I like how you say "don't have to suffer the disadvantages you just get the positives from it."


Newsflash, Fighter's Guild abilities work against Vamps. In fact you can completely shut a vamp down with them. The entire skill line applies hard CC and extra damage.
Can you use them on a normal player? Nope.
Can you 1 Shot a normal player with Camo Hunter/Snipe/Weave/ability? Nope. That sure as hell sounds like a disadvantage to me...

Fire damage...? We are forced to use resist items in place of other clutch enchants.

Passives that do not work:
Undeath, this has been broken since beta and still does not work and takes up 2 skill points.
Unnatural Resistance, with this passive I still have sub-par regen. Takes a skill point.

So all of this is offset by our ability to drain someone? Are you serious? A channeled spell which has a debuff element (in other words if he has been drained already by someone else you can't drain him or feed) which is notorious for cancelling and applying the debuff without actually draining. Let's not forget while draining an opponent you can be interrupted thus ruining the ability completely.

I am glad you mentioned feeding, our advantageous 6th skill that breaks the game. Something you failed to mention is that we must be stealthed, up close and behind our target who then must be free of any drain debuffs. You also didn't mention that it does not do any damage to the player, nor does it heal us the way our drain ability does. More importantly you failed to mention that by using this ability we now reduce our vampire stage thus increasing our ability costs, including our ultimate. This for the sake of a cc, actually sets back vampires. Most vampires stay in stage 4 and will never use "feed."


You really should learn about something before you spout off parroting some other ignoramus. Vamp's skills have been bugged like crazy since beta. They are still screwed up. In fact the only perks right now are Dark Stalker (something you can get from gear), Mistform (yay I can go cloud for a few seconds while being unable to heal, cast, melee), and Swarm.. which is bugged out now and not working half the time players spam their ult key.

Lastly, the hate comes from 2 things:
1. Idiots.
Idiots fail to understand a lot of their problems are self inflicted. Lack of understanding, poor awareness, poor optimization, overall general ignorance. This is plays a monumental role in the blame game. Due to a seemingly high self worth, they feel if someone beat them, obviously the class/ability is overpowered. Clearly they did everything right and no one should be able to do what that person did to them... *insert fallacious reasoning*
The forum is rife with this nonsense.

2. Vamp Emperors.
Since release numerous youtube videos have been posted showing Vampire Emperors beating groups of people. Usually a legendary tale is told about 1 lone Vamp Emp who soloed an entire faction by himself with batswarm and killed everyone and won the internet.

They usually fail to tell you that Emperor had friends, had heals, required a bunch of noobs to stand still inside his swarm. They also don't tell you their failure to optimize CC builds to shut his ass down. Something easily done. More importantly they refuse to mention all the non vamp Emperors who are just as hard to kill, particularly Templars who ult spam and heal up while groups try and bring them down.

After a while of posting this type of stuff people (like yourself) begin parroting all kinds of nonsense about Vampires. The results are interesting: Like the old saying, "When you tell a lie loud enough, long enough, it eventually becomes true."

Of course you can combine above reasons 1&2 as they often go together like hand in glove.

A lot of words to justify a broken system.

Vamps have ruined pvp. Anyone can see that. To pretend otherwise is entirely disingenuous.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

MrMT wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

First off, let me just state: You clearly have no idea what the hell you are talking about.

According to you, Vamps have major advantages and no disadvantages other than poor regen which is made up for by the ability to drain and feed. You also said being Vamp doesn't require us to play any different.

I like how you say "don't have to suffer the disadvantages you just get the positives from it."
Your post is the The Hallmark of Ignorance.

Do you even play this game?

Newsflash, Fighter's Guild abilities work against Vamps. In fact you can completely shut a vamp down with them. The entire skill line applies hard CC and extra damage.
Can you use them on a normal player? Nope.
Can you 1 Shot a normal player with Camo Hunter/Snipe/Weave/ability? Nope. That sure as hell sounds like a disadvantage to me...

Fire damage...? We are forced to use resist items in place of other clutch enchants.

Passives that do not work:
Undeath, this has been broken since beta and still does not work and takes up 2 skill points.
Unnatural Resistance, with this passive I still have sub-par regen. Takes a skill point.

So all of this is offset by our ability to drain someone? Are you serious? A channeled spell which has a debuff element (in other words if he has been drained already by someone else you can't drain him or feed) which is notorious for cancelling and applying the debuff without actually draining. Let's not forget while draining an opponent you can be interrupted thus ruining the ability completely.

I am glad you mentioned feeding, our advantageous 6th skill that breaks the game. Something you failed to mention is that we must be stealthed, up close and behind our target who then must be free of any drain debuffs. You also didn't mention that it does not do any damage to the player, nor does it heal us the way our drain ability does. More importantly you failed to mention that by using this ability we now reduce our vampire stage thus increasing our ability costs, including our ultimate. This for the sake of a cc, actually sets back vampires. Most vampires stay in stage 4 and will never use "feed."


You really should learn about something before you spout off parroting some other ignoramus. Vamp's skills have been bugged like crazy since beta. They are still screwed up. In fact the only perks right now are Dark Stalker (something you can get from gear), Mistform (yay I can go cloud for a few seconds while being unable to heal, cast, melee), and Swarm.. which is bugged out now and not working half the time players spam their ult key.

Lastly, the hate comes from 2 things:
1. Idiots.
Idiots fail to understand a lot of their problems are self inflicted. Lack of understanding, poor awareness, poor optimization, overall general ignorance. This is plays a monumental role in the blame game. Due to a seemingly high self worth, they feel if someone beat them, obviously the class/ability is overpowered. Clearly they did everything right and no one should be able to do what that person did to them... *insert fallacious reasoning*
The forum is rife with this nonsense.

2. Vamp Emperors.
Since release numerous youtube videos have been posted showing Vampire Emperors beating groups of people. Usually a legendary tale is told about 1 lone Vamp Emp who soloed an entire faction by himself with batswarm and killed everyone and won the internet.

They usually fail to tell you that Emperor had friends, had heals, required a bunch of noobs to stand still inside his swarm. They also don't tell you their failure to optimize CC builds to shut his ass down. Something easily done. More importantly they refuse to mention all the non vamp Emperors who are just as hard to kill, particularly Templars who ult spam and heal up while groups try and bring them down.

After a while of posting this type of stuff people (like yourself) begin parroting all kinds of nonsense about Vampires. The results are interesting: Like the old saying, "When you tell a lie loud enough, long enough, it eventually becomes true."

Of course you can combine above reasons 1&2 as they often go together like hand in glove.

A lot of words to justify a broken system.

Vamps have ruined pvp. Anyone can see that. To pretend otherwise is entirely disingenuous.

you mean a lot of facts that you refuse to counter?

I expect to see you bring this up in EVERY SINGLE THREAD if you actually feel like you need to derail this thread with that.

raglau

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

All this stealth crap never hit PTS, btw.

ZOS' opinion of their bug testing abilities is a lot higher than it should be.

So it was a case that both the Shadow Cloak and stealth radius bug did not appear on PTS, not that they appeared but were not resolved there?

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

Pibbles wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

All this stealth crap never hit PTS, btw.

ZOS' opinion of their bug testing abilities is a lot higher than it should be.

So it was a case that both the Shadow Cloak and stealth radius bug did not appear on PTS, not that they appeared but were not resolved there?

Most of the involved changes didn't even hit PTS. They were thrown into the patch without any testing.

raglau

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Pibbles wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

All this stealth crap never hit PTS, btw.

ZOS' opinion of their bug testing abilities is a lot higher than it should be.

So it was a case that both the Shadow Cloak and stealth radius bug did not appear on PTS, not that they appeared but were not resolved there?

Most of the involved changes didn't even hit PTS. They were thrown into the patch without any testing.

I read a lot about testing 1.4 on PTS, but I am guessing that it was an earlier 1.4.x to that which went live, in that case? Implication being they ran out of time to hit that coming week's release date and rolled a lot of non-PTS changes into the final 1.4.x patch that went live.

Maybe the simple answer is, slow down the patching to put more rigor around it by ensuring everything goes onto PTS. I mean, patching is not exactly fast at ZOS, we're 6 months in and have broken skills all over the place, but if it means that a patch does not break MORE stuff, then perhaps slower is better, painful as that is.

Shunravi

Xael wrote: »

Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »

The hate comes because there are no real large disadvantages from being a vampire. Sure your in combat health Regen is 10 while a normal players in 40 maybe(unless you geared for health regen which you could do as a vampire as well) thats not game changing. ---[irrelevant quote removed, this is NOT DnD, NOT Bram Stoker's, NOT any other faulty comparison, this is ESO]---

In eso you don't have to suffer the disadvantages you just get the positives from it. That's why there is hate for vampires whether people realize that's why they hate it or not it is the reason. It would be like saying you could trade in 1 point of health for any other stat in the game weapon damage stamina crit what ever you want then giving the player an item or skill that negates 100% damage. Sensationalized for the purpose of helping you understand. So why not trade in all your health but 1 point when you know there will be no significant drawbacks?

Edit: becoming a vampire doesn't require you to play any differently and there are several abilities in the tree that help.you regain your life such as drain essence and feeding the latter doesn't even take up a slot on your bar cc the affected enemy unbreakable unless someone else can cc the vampire and heals you. I'd call that a 6th ability for the vampire and a huge advantage thus alone pretty well negates any negative a vampire has. To go from 10 regular slots to 12 and have such a poweful ability it really is hard to believe not everyone is a vampire.

According to you, Vamps have major advantages and no disadvantages other than poor regen which is made up for by the ability to drain and feed. You also said being Vamp doesn't require us to play any different.

I like how you say "don't have to suffer the disadvantages you just get the positives from it."

Newsflash, Fighter's Guild abilities work against Vamps. In fact you can completely shut a vamp down with them. The entire skill line applies hard CC and extra damage.
Can you use them on a normal player? Nope.
Can you 1 Shot a normal player with Camo Hunter/Snipe/Weave/ability? Nope. That sure as hell sounds like a disadvantage to me...

Fire damage...? We are forced to use resist items in place of other clutch enchants.

Passives that do not work:
Undeath, this has been broken since beta and still does not work and takes up 2 skill points.
Unnatural Resistance, with this passive I still have sub-par regen. Takes a skill point.

So all of this is offset by our ability to drain someone? Are you serious? A channeled spell which has a debuff element (in other words if he has been drained already by someone else you can't drain him or feed) which is notorious for cancelling and applying the debuff without actually draining. Let's not forget while draining an opponent you can be interrupted thus ruining the ability completely.

I am glad you mentioned feeding, our advantageous 6th skill that breaks the game. Something you failed to mention is that we must be stealthed, up close and behind our target who then must be free of any drain debuffs. You also didn't mention that it does not do any damage to the player, nor does it heal us the way our drain ability does. More importantly you failed to mention that by using this ability we now reduce our vampire stage thus increasing our ability costs, including our ultimate. This for the sake of a cc, actually sets back vampires. Most vampires stay in stage 4 and will never use "feed."


You really should learn about something before you spout off parroting some other ignoramus. Vamp's skills have been bugged like crazy since beta. They are still screwed up. In fact the only perks right now are Dark Stalker (something you can get from gear), Mistform (yay I can go cloud for a few seconds while being unable to heal, cast, melee), and Swarm.. which is bugged out now and not working half the time players spam their ult key.

Lastly, the hate comes from 2 things:
1. Idiots.
Idiots fail to understand a lot of their problems are self inflicted. Lack of understanding, poor awareness, poor optimization, overall general ignorance. This is plays a monumental role in the blame game. Due to a seemingly high self worth, they feel if someone beat them, obviously the class/ability is overpowered. Clearly they did everything right and no one should be able to do what that person did to them... *insert fallacious reasoning*
The forum is rife with this nonsense.

2. Vamp Emperors.
Since release numerous youtube videos have been posted showing Vampire Emperors beating groups of people. Usually a legendary tale is told about 1 lone Vamp Emp who soloed an entire faction by himself with batswarm and killed everyone and won the internet.

They usually fail to tell you that Emperor had friends, had heals, required a bunch of noobs to stand still inside his swarm. They also don't tell you their failure to optimize CC builds to shut his ass down. Something easily done. More importantly they refuse to mention all the non vamp Emperors who are just as hard to kill, particularly Templars who ult spam and heal up while groups try and bring them down.

After a while of posting this type of stuff people (like yourself) begin parroting all kinds of nonsense about Vampires. The results are interesting: Like the old saying, "When you tell a lie loud enough, long enough, it eventually becomes true."

Of course you can combine above reasons 1&2 as they often go together like hand in glove.
[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Yup, that about sums it up.

Gilvoth

Xael wrote: »

Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »

The hate comes because there are no real large disadvantages from being a vampire. Sure your in combat health Regen is 10 while a normal players in 40 maybe(unless you geared for health regen which you could do as a vampire as well) thats not game changing. ---[irrelevant quote removed, this is NOT DnD, NOT Bram Stoker's, NOT any other faulty comparison, this is ESO]---

In eso you don't have to suffer the disadvantages you just get the positives from it. That's why there is hate for vampires whether people realize that's why they hate it or not it is the reason. It would be like saying you could trade in 1 point of health for any other stat in the game weapon damage stamina crit what ever you want then giving the player an item or skill that negates 100% damage. Sensationalized for the purpose of helping you understand. So why not trade in all your health but 1 point when you know there will be no significant drawbacks?

Edit: becoming a vampire doesn't require you to play any differently and there are several abilities in the tree that help.you regain your life such as drain essence and feeding the latter doesn't even take up a slot on your bar cc the affected enemy unbreakable unless someone else can cc the vampire and heals you. I'd call that a 6th ability for the vampire and a huge advantage thus alone pretty well negates any negative a vampire has. To go from 10 regular slots to 12 and have such a poweful ability it really is hard to believe not everyone is a vampire.

According to you, Vamps have major advantages and no disadvantages other than poor regen which is made up for by the ability to drain and feed. You also said being Vamp doesn't require us to play any different.

I like how you say "don't have to suffer the disadvantages you just get the positives from it."

Newsflash, Fighter's Guild abilities work against Vamps. In fact you can completely shut a vamp down with them. The entire skill line applies hard CC and extra damage.
Can you use them on a normal player? Nope.
Can you 1 Shot a normal player with Camo Hunter/Snipe/Weave/ability? Nope. That sure as hell sounds like a disadvantage to me...

Fire damage...? We are forced to use resist items in place of other clutch enchants.

Passives that do not work:
Undeath, this has been broken since beta and still does not work and takes up 2 skill points.
Unnatural Resistance, with this passive I still have sub-par regen. Takes a skill point.

So all of this is offset by our ability to drain someone? Are you serious? A channeled spell which has a debuff element (in other words if he has been drained already by someone else you can't drain him or feed) which is notorious for cancelling and applying the debuff without actually draining. Let's not forget while draining an opponent you can be interrupted thus ruining the ability completely.

I am glad you mentioned feeding, our advantageous 6th skill that breaks the game. Something you failed to mention is that we must be stealthed, up close and behind our target who then must be free of any drain debuffs. You also didn't mention that it does not do any damage to the player, nor does it heal us the way our drain ability does. More importantly you failed to mention that by using this ability we now reduce our vampire stage thus increasing our ability costs, including our ultimate. This for the sake of a cc, actually sets back vampires. Most vampires stay in stage 4 and will never use "feed."


You really should learn about something before you spout off parroting some other ignoramus. Vamp's skills have been bugged like crazy since beta. They are still screwed up. In fact the only perks right now are Dark Stalker (something you can get from gear), Mistform (yay I can go cloud for a few seconds while being unable to heal, cast, melee), and Swarm.. which is bugged out now and not working half the time players spam their ult key.

Lastly, the hate comes from 2 things:
1. Idiots.
Idiots fail to understand a lot of their problems are self inflicted. Lack of understanding, poor awareness, poor optimization, overall general ignorance. This is plays a monumental role in the blame game. Due to a seemingly high self worth, they feel if someone beat them, obviously the class/ability is overpowered. Clearly they did everything right and no one should be able to do what that person did to them... *insert fallacious reasoning*
The forum is rife with this nonsense.

2. Vamp Emperors.
Since release numerous youtube videos have been posted showing Vampire Emperors beating groups of people. Usually a legendary tale is told about 1 lone Vamp Emp who soloed an entire faction by himself with batswarm and killed everyone and won the internet.

They usually fail to tell you that Emperor had friends, had heals, required a bunch of noobs to stand still inside his swarm. They also don't tell you their failure to optimize CC builds to shut his ass down. Something easily done. More importantly they refuse to mention all the non vamp Emperors who are just as hard to kill, particularly Templars who ult spam and heal up while groups try and bring them down.

After a while of posting this type of stuff people (like yourself) begin parroting all kinds of nonsense about Vampires. The results are interesting: Like the old saying, "When you tell a lie loud enough, long enough, it eventually becomes true."

Of course you can combine above reasons 1&2 as they often go together like hand in glove.
[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

your post was awesome and spot on perfect wording. all truth and great insight.
is there a fix for us vampires or even any mention of helping us to be able to feed without exact positioning? i doubt it.

Luvsfuzzybunnies

Xael wrote: »

Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »

The hate comes because there are no real large disadvantages from being a vampire. Sure your in combat health Regen is 10 while a normal players in 40 maybe(unless you geared for health regen which you could do as a vampire as well) thats not game changing. ---[irrelevant quote removed, this is NOT DnD, NOT Bram Stoker's, NOT any other faulty comparison, this is ESO]---

In eso you don't have to suffer the disadvantages you just get the positives from it. That's why there is hate for vampires whether people realize that's why they hate it or not it is the reason. It would be like saying you could trade in 1 point of health for any other stat in the game weapon damage stamina crit what ever you want then giving the player an item or skill that negates 100% damage. Sensationalized for the purpose of helping you understand. So why not trade in all your health but 1 point when you know there will be no significant drawbacks?

Edit: becoming a vampire doesn't require you to play any differently and there are several abilities in the tree that help.you regain your life such as drain essence and feeding the latter doesn't even take up a slot on your bar cc the affected enemy unbreakable unless someone else can cc the vampire and heals you. I'd call that a 6th ability for the vampire and a huge advantage thus alone pretty well negates any negative a vampire has. To go from 10 regular slots to 12 and have such a poweful ability it really is hard to believe not everyone is a vampire.

According to you, Vamps have major advantages and no disadvantages other than poor regen which is made up for by the ability to drain and feed. You also said being Vamp doesn't require us to play any different.

I like how you say "don't have to suffer the disadvantages you just get the positives from it."

Newsflash, Fighter's Guild abilities work against Vamps. In fact you can completely shut a vamp down with them. The entire skill line applies hard CC and extra damage.
Can you use them on a normal player? Nope.
Can you 1 Shot a normal player with Camo Hunter/Snipe/Weave/ability? Nope. That sure as hell sounds like a disadvantage to me...

Fire damage...? We are forced to use resist items in place of other clutch enchants.

Passives that do not work:
Undeath, this has been broken since beta and still does not work and takes up 2 skill points.
Unnatural Resistance, with this passive I still have sub-par regen. Takes a skill point.

So all of this is offset by our ability to drain someone? Are you serious? A channeled spell which has a debuff element (in other words if he has been drained already by someone else you can't drain him or feed) which is notorious for cancelling and applying the debuff without actually draining. Let's not forget while draining an opponent you can be interrupted thus ruining the ability completely.

I am glad you mentioned feeding, our advantageous 6th skill that breaks the game. Something you failed to mention is that we must be stealthed, up close and behind our target who then must be free of any drain debuffs. You also didn't mention that it does not do any damage to the player, nor does it heal us the way our drain ability does. More importantly you failed to mention that by using this ability we now reduce our vampire stage thus increasing our ability costs, including our ultimate. This for the sake of a cc, actually sets back vampires. Most vampires stay in stage 4 and will never use "feed."


You really should learn about something before you spout off parroting some other ignoramus. Vamp's skills have been bugged like crazy since beta. They are still screwed up. In fact the only perks right now are Dark Stalker (something you can get from gear), Mistform (yay I can go cloud for a few seconds while being unable to heal, cast, melee), and Swarm.. which is bugged out now and not working half the time players spam their ult key.

Lastly, the hate comes from 2 things:
1. Idiots.
Idiots fail to understand a lot of their problems are self inflicted. Lack of understanding, poor awareness, poor optimization, overall general ignorance. This is plays a monumental role in the blame game. Due to a seemingly high self worth, they feel if someone beat them, obviously the class/ability is overpowered. Clearly they did everything right and no one should be able to do what that person did to them... *insert fallacious reasoning*
The forum is rife with this nonsense.

2. Vamp Emperors.
Since release numerous youtube videos have been posted showing Vampire Emperors beating groups of people. Usually a legendary tale is told about 1 lone Vamp Emp who soloed an entire faction by himself with batswarm and killed everyone and won the internet.

They usually fail to tell you that Emperor had friends, had heals, required a bunch of noobs to stand still inside his swarm. They also don't tell you their failure to optimize CC builds to shut his ass down. Something easily done. More importantly they refuse to mention all the non vamp Emperors who are just as hard to kill, particularly Templars who ult spam and heal up while groups try and bring them down.

After a while of posting this type of stuff people (like yourself) begin parroting all kinds of nonsense about Vampires. The results are interesting: Like the old saying, "When you tell a lie loud enough, long enough, it eventually becomes true."

Of course you can combine above reasons 1&2 as they often go together like hand in glove.
[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

I played vampire for quite a while actually I know exactly what it is like to be a vampire and the disadvantages you are trying to sensationalize. Attacking me personally again very classy that again is proof of an argument lost. Just because you throw a few names around doesn't immediately invalidate any of my arguments. I never said feed did damage and already addressed the issue of staying in stage 4. This leads me to believe either you didn't read the post or can't comprehend it so maybe I can help you. Sure you have skill points invested in vampire I get that hardly a disadvantage. Almost as disadvantageous as me having to put skill points into the skill lines I want to use. Feed is a free heal for no skill bar slot cost who cares the stipulations for using it it's a free 6th slot. I've never once had a vampire ability bug for me but am not debating whether or not they have worked for you. Over time vampirism has been the culprit of many exploits. Including now looking at you Mistform exploit. But since you brought up fighters guild and I'm glad you did we can talk about that. The abilities do slightly more damage to you yes and actually are the one thing close to a large disadvantage vampires have. The do work on non vampire players though something you didn't know as per your post(but since you seem to think they don't that would put others players at a disadvantage for having to slot abilities to counter vampires specifically this one is a wash as far as I'm concerned sometimes you will deal extra damage sometimes you will not). They can however also have their cc portion negated by immovable but nobody ever runs that in pvp right? I mean why would they do that resistance to hard cc including knockdown yeah a majority of people who do well in pvp have never ever considered running this because no one ccs in this game as you have pointed out so clearly for us. As for the extra damage from these abilities I shall concede that point they do, do some extra damage. It is my personal opinion they do not do enough extra but we won't consider my personal opinions I will just stick to the things I know to be true of vampirism. Fire damage hits everyone for true damage due to bugged spell penetration of light armor/sharpened trait users if they fix this we shall then be able to consider it a disadvantage as of right now it is not. You accuse me of using other people arguments when all of these thoughts are my own, if others share them which it seems many do, that is because they are true and people notice them. So yes in conclusion to refute your points I stand by my post. You however just go on a tirade about ignorance when you failed to understand the situation. I will be finished debating you on this because we shall probably never see eye to eye on it and you lack the ability to keep it civil. And to.think we could have had a meaningful discussion about this but you ruined it. Congrats sir. Emperor is another issue all together that we could have also discussed calmly but all rational thought went out the window when I pointed out some issues with vampirism.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »

The hate comes because there are no real large disadvantages from being a vampire. Sure your in combat health Regen is 10 while a normal players in 40 maybe(unless you geared for health regen which you could do as a vampire as well) thats not game changing. ---[irrelevant quote removed, this is NOT DnD, NOT Bram Stoker's, NOT any other faulty comparison, this is ESO]---

In eso you don't have to suffer the disadvantages you just get the positives from it. That's why there is hate for vampires whether people realize that's why they hate it or not it is the reason. It would be like saying you could trade in 1 point of health for any other stat in the game weapon damage stamina crit what ever you want then giving the player an item or skill that negates 100% damage. Sensationalized for the purpose of helping you understand. So why not trade in all your health but 1 point when you know there will be no significant drawbacks?

Edit: becoming a vampire doesn't require you to play any differently and there are several abilities in the tree that help.you regain your life such as drain essence and feeding the latter doesn't even take up a slot on your bar cc the affected enemy unbreakable unless someone else can cc the vampire and heals you. I'd call that a 6th ability for the vampire and a huge advantage thus alone pretty well negates any negative a vampire has. To go from 10 regular slots to 12 and have such a poweful ability it really is hard to believe not everyone is a vampire.

First off, let me just state: You clearly have no idea what the hell you are talking about.


According to you, Vamps have major advantages and no disadvantages other than poor regen which is made up for by the ability to drain and feed. You also said being Vamp doesn't require us to play any different.

I like how you say "don't have to suffer the disadvantages you just get the positives from it."
Your post is the The Hallmark of Ignorance.

Do you even play this game?

Newsflash, Fighter's Guild abilities work against Vamps. In fact you can completely shut a vamp down with them. The entire skill line applies hard CC and extra damage.
Can you use them on a normal player? Nope.
Can you 1 Shot a normal player with Camo Hunter/Snipe/Weave/ability? Nope. That sure as hell sounds like a disadvantage to me...

Fire damage...? We are forced to use resist items in place of other clutch enchants.

Passives that do not work:
Undeath, this has been broken since beta and still does not work and takes up 2 skill points.
Unnatural Resistance, with this passive I still have sub-par regen. Takes a skill point.

So all of this is offset by our ability to drain someone? Are you serious? A channeled spell which has a debuff element (in other words if he has been drained already by someone else you can't drain him or feed) which is notorious for cancelling and applying the debuff without actually draining. Let's not forget while draining an opponent you can be interrupted thus ruining the ability completely.

I am glad you mentioned feeding, our advantageous 6th skill that breaks the game. Something you failed to mention is that we must be stealthed, up close and behind our target who then must be free of any drain debuffs. You also didn't mention that it does not do any damage to the player, nor does it heal us the way our drain ability does. More importantly you failed to mention that by using this ability we now reduce our vampire stage thus increasing our ability costs, including our ultimate. This for the sake of a cc, actually sets back vampires. Most vampires stay in stage 4 and will never use "feed."


You really should learn about something before you spout off parroting some other ignoramus. Vamp's skills have been bugged like crazy since beta. They are still screwed up. In fact the only perks right now are Dark Stalker (something you can get from gear), Mistform (yay I can go cloud for a few seconds while being unable to heal, cast, melee), and Swarm.. which is bugged out now and not working half the time players spam their ult key.

Lastly, the hate comes from 2 things:
1. Idiots.
Idiots fail to understand a lot of their problems are self inflicted. Lack of understanding, poor awareness, poor optimization, overall general ignorance. This is plays a monumental role in the blame game. Due to a seemingly high self worth, they feel if someone beat them, obviously the class/ability is overpowered. Clearly they did everything right and no one should be able to do what that person did to them... *insert fallacious reasoning*
The forum is rife with this nonsense.

2. Vamp Emperors.
Since release numerous youtube videos have been posted showing Vampire Emperors beating groups of people. Usually a legendary tale is told about 1 lone Vamp Emp who soloed an entire faction by himself with batswarm and killed everyone and won the internet.

They usually fail to tell you that Emperor had friends, had heals, required a bunch of noobs to stand still inside his swarm. They also don't tell you their failure to optimize CC builds to shut his ass down. Something easily done. More importantly they refuse to mention all the non vamp Emperors who are just as hard to kill, particularly Templars who ult spam and heal up while groups try and bring them down.

After a while of posting this type of stuff people (like yourself) begin parroting all kinds of nonsense about Vampires. The results are interesting: Like the old saying, "When you tell a lie loud enough, long enough, it eventually becomes true."

Of course you can combine above reasons 1&2 as they often go together like hand in glove.

I played vampire for quite a while actually I know exactly what it is like to be a vampire and the disadvantages you are trying to sensationalize. Attacking me personally again very classy that again is proof of an argument lost. Just because you throw a few names around doesn't immediately invalidate any of my arguments. I never said feed did damage and already addressed the issue of staying in stage 4. This leads me to believe either you didn't read the post or can't comprehend it so maybe I can help you. Sure you have skill points invested in vampire I get that hardly a disadvantage. Almost as disadvantageous as me having to put skill points into the skill lines I want to use. Feed is a free heal for no skill bar slot cost who cares the stipulations for using it it's a free 6th slot. I've never once had a vampire ability bug for me but am not debating whether or not they have worked for you. Over time vampirism has been the culprit of many exploits. Including now looking at you Mistform exploit. But since you brought up fighters guild and I'm glad you did we can talk about that. The abilities do slightly more damage to you yes and actually are the one thing close to a large disadvantage vampires have. The do work on non vampire players though something you didn't know as per your post(but since you seem to think they don't that would put others players at a disadvantage for having to slot abilities to counter vampires specifically this one is a wash as far as I'm concerned sometimes you will deal extra damage sometimes you will not). They can however also have their cc portion negated by immovable but nobody ever runs that in pvp right? I mean why would they do that resistance to hard cc including knockdown yeah a majority of people who do well in pvp have never ever considered running this because no one ccs in this game as you have pointed out so clearly for us. As for the extra damage from these abilities I shall concede that point they do, do some extra damage. It is my personal opinion they do not do enough extra but we won't consider my personal opinions I will just stick to the things I know to be true of vampirism. Fire damage hits everyone for true damage due to bugged spell penetration of light armor/sharpened trait users if they fix this we shall then be able to consider it a disadvantage as of right now it is not. You accuse me of using other people arguments when all of these thoughts are my own, if others share them which it seems many do, that is because they are true and people notice them. So yes in conclusion to refute your points I stand by my post. You however just go on a tirade about ignorance when you failed to understand the situation. I will be finished debating you on this because we shall probably never see eye to eye on it and you lack the ability to keep it civil. And to.think we could have had a meaningful discussion about this but you ruined it. Congrats sir. Emperor is another issue all together that we could have also discussed calmly but all rational thought went out the window when I pointed out some issues with vampirism.

I couldn't bring myself to read all this but fighter's guild effects do not work on non-supernatural creatures.

Does silver shards do damage to other players? Yes, some. But you will never get the knock down or the crit.

Fighter's guild abilities state very clearly what hits who. The effects are underwhelming and all of 0 passives are relevant to non supernaturals.

More misinformation.

He never personally attacked you, either. You however, did personally attack him.